AssemblyBoard

Hi Everyone,

Greg, I thought I would post a response to your inquiry and post dated 11/14/02 that is on the Rick Ross site.  Might as well move the luggage over here.

It’s funny that you should mention that you left the assembly improperly.  I was told the same thing!  On top of that, my leaving was "unscriptural".  It seems I did not adhere to the scriptures properly as mentioned in Matthew 18:15-17.

Concerning verse 15; for the last 24 months I confronted each of the leadership about actions, statements, or ministry.  Only once did one of them humble himself.  The others either verbally attacked me or accused me of causing division.  I approached each of them at least 4 times and one of them ~12 times.  I guess this doesn’t count toward the “reprove him in private”.

Concerning verse 16; I then tried bringing a brother with me to one of those in leadership.  However the brother accused me of causing division by criticizing and calling part of a leader’s ministry erroneous.  He told me to repent.  I then asked two other brothers, but they stated they were too afraid of this leader and how he might respond to them later (So much for a shepherd’s care).  I heard later that these attempts didn’t count either.

Concerning verse 17; the leader of the leadership said I could not preach exhortation or doctrine to the assembly any longer (January, 2001).  I was only allowed to preach encouragement (i.e. the feel good type).  I presume this was to make sure I could not approach the church.

On Thursday night (October 10, 2002), I presented some of my points for the final time.  I knew they wouldn’t respond to it from previous experience although they did distort my first point after I left.  Note valley assembly members:  It had nothing to do with a particular leading brother being unapproachable.  I wrote: “There are accusations made by leaders that it is divisive to question a leader’s ministry or decision.”  I was responding to the issue that it is unacceptable in the assembly to question leadership.  That is, I was responding to the deeper issue of; “whatever leadership says is from the Lord.”  And “to question leadership, is to question the Lord’s leading.”  There is nothing divisive about bringing a leader into accountability with the Word of God as my witness.

The leadership’s response to my reasons for leaving was a shock to me.  They said this was the first time they heard of my points.  Obviously they didn’t hear me out before and I knew they wouldn’t hear it that night.  From the next 45 minutes I was as a spectator in a circus.  Their statements proved to me they would never listen no matter how many witnesses I had.

After I left, many of the saints told me I needed to submit to the leadership of the assembly.  Apparently, I was still accountable to them since I was now going to a compromised church (Calvary Chapel).  They also said I need to follow the scriptural pattern as found in Matthew 18:15-17.  That is, “To keep bringing ones with me until they repent.”  That’s interesting; my translations don’t put it that way.  None of them say I have to keep coming to the brother(s) with a witness.  Maybe I should throw out my KJV and NAS bibles.  Finally, I was told by a number of saints that I failed to get counsel from leadership about leaving (I guess the Word of God is not enough in the assemblies).  I was also asked why I failed to ask leadership to pray about these issues and my scriptural response to them.  (No need to respond to this!)

God bless you all,

Eric

Hello Eric

I hope someone in the assembly reads your post.  It is incredible how the won't hear, then blame you for not telling them, then still won't hear.  Absolutely incredible, but also quite typical.  

This kind of explains why so many people came to a meeting for about 30 minutes, and then got up and walked out! They figured it out pretty quick. (boy are we smart)

Brent

Hey Erich I just want to say I admire your courage.  I left without confronting anyone. I just figured if I did I would be told the same thing you were. "No one gets out of here (With a blessing) alive "  Jim Morrison

Hi Dave

Thanks for the input. As you know, most people leave quietly.  However, when someone speaks up, like Eric did, it goes a long way towards making real change in the group.  I encourage anyone out there to be courageous and tell the truth.  Literally, it could save someone's life.

Editor

Hi Everyone,

Before I left the assembly, I attempted to entreat a number of saints on various issues.  When I left, it was not because they didn't respond, but because of the double-standards and half-truths we were told.  It was leadership who distorted why I left, into being one of personal issues.
When I responded to Greg's post, it was to show that even in their false assumptions, they didn't have a leg to stand on.  When I left, I prepared a two page summary of why my family was leaving.  Leadership only got the first page.  There's no way they would have let me finish with the second page.  Someday when I believe it's the right time, I'll post my reasons.

The Lord bless you,

Eric

When I was living in Fullerton (I was from the Assembly in San Luis Obispo), I tried unseccessfully to leave then.  I made the mistake of talking to one of the leading brothers (let's call him Rad).  I told him of my desire to go check out a Calvary Chapel.  I was told that Calvary Chapel did not have the same amount of vision that the Assembly has.  When you mentioned Calvary, it reminded me of that scenario.  Anyway, thanks for reading!

Hi Everyone,

Well the hindrance has been removed!  ;D  As I said before, when I believed it was right, I would post my reasons as to why I left.  I am a little surprised I was "laid off" today  :o (I worked for "saints").  Surely they know what I have.  Never the less, it might be another week since I haven't finished obtaining everything I need.  It's a good thing they can't interfere with that part.  ;)

If it's too long, I might have to post it as an article.  We'll see.  :)

The Lord bless you,

Eric

REJOICE IN THE LORD, AND AGAIN I SAY REJOICE!  (OOPS, WRONG PLACE! ;D)  

ERIC AND I WERE TOLD WE WOULD BE LET GO (WE BOTH WORKED FOR BELIEVERS IN THE SAN FERNANDO VALLEY-ONE BEING "THE" LEADING BROTHER) WHEN WE SAID WE WERE GOING TO ATTEND ANOTHER CHURCH (I REFUSE TO SAY WE "LEFT FELLOWSHIP", WE ARE STILL VERY MUCH "IN FELLOWSHIP" WITH THE BODY OF CHRIST.)  THE TRUE BELIEVER'S IN FACT HAVE BEEN VERY WARM TOWARDS US AND NOT PUSHING US THAT THEIR CHURCH (MY HUSBAND AND I HAVE VISITED FOUR) IS "THE CHURCH".  THEY SIMPLY WANT US TO FEEL LED BY THE LORD TO FIND A CHURCH WHERE THE LORD WOULD HAVE US TO WORSHIP.

BACK TO THE REAL SUBJECT FOR THIS POST.  ERIC AND I WERE WAITING FOR THE AX TO FALL.  WE KNEW WE WOULD BE LET GO, WE JUST DIDN'T KNOW WHEN.  

PRAISE GOD, WE HAVE BEEN SET FREE!  POOR ERIC, FOR THE PERSECUTION HE HAS SUFFERED AT THEIR HANDS SINCE WE CHOSE (AS SEPARATE FAMILIES) TO ATTEND A DIFFERENT CHURCH.  MORE TO FOLLOW LATER!

GT's post reminded me of something.
Geo was a guest-yea, sure-at the bros. house and noticed that someone had walked about in their bare feet :o. Suddenly the LB-HS told us that bare feet were no longer allowed- socks or shoes. With my most humble demeanour I ventured to ask why. After all, there mustbe an important spiritual principle involved here and I didn't want to "leave my change on the counter." The LB-HS was at a loss for a second, then quickly recovered in time to share with me this unforgettable Ebeneezer fellowship worthy-of-sharing explanation and I swear that I'm not making this up(now THIS is a run-on)!:

I don't know. I think Bro. George is talking about the "oils" in our feet.

In retrospect George was probably referring to the possibility of spreading atheletes foot.  ;D
I swear that I am not making this up!

Really Greg

You should be ashamed of yourself! You know as well as I do that the Assembly has served more coffee than your worldly church will ever hope to. You should be ashamed.  ;)

You are just being a disgruntled former member.

Brent

Greg:
John1:27 at least implies that bare feet were a distinct possibility, at least.
   I still shudder when I recall the first (and last) time I danced in public.
   The Assembly sometimes lapsed into the old If not specifically mentioned therefore forbidden error.

Greg:
Why can'y you tell that story- would you be stealing KIMBERLEY'S thunder?

Hi, I helped ppl with the DIET, I never followed it. One thing I did like was when I was making the coffee for the.............I loved the aroma of the coffee boiling. Yes it sounds pathetic to me too!
 BTW I love coffee to drink. Field trip to Starbucks anyone?

Hello 4HIM:
I actually don't recall which location for sure-it's been a while hasn't it? I don't really know who you are for sure, but it would be great to hear from you via e-mail if you want to. I don't HAVE to know your ID if you choose not to reveal it-talk to me anyway. These sometimes humorous incidents hopefully just illustrated the mindset that we all had at one time. I avoided too specific details since not everything any one of us might have done then while in the assembly need be used to humiliate.

Heaven forbid George would be a gracious guest and just wear slippers.  NO he had to change entire household routines on a regular basis to prove they were willing to serve him...er...God.

Also if you read the story about the "European Swimsuit" episode it would be ironic that George thought your robe was to short.  I remember spending a summer day at George's beach house and sitting with my cousins as he spoke to us from his chaise lounge chair.  His shorts were so short, lets just say they left next to nothing to the imagination.  Quite embarrassing to his then teenage granddaughters, but what could we say :-[.

First Betty, now George.  What is this lodge coming to?  Could we assume the trinity from the lodge perspective was George, Betty, and the "children"?  Or, was it more likely a god, goddess, and their "creation"?  

I realize George and Betty haven't sinned for a long time (according to them), but I do remember Betty's short temper.  She flew off in anger every other day for a week at a brother's house in the valley lodge.  At the time I was perplexed, not anymore...  :)

He who is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at George Geftakys.

John 8:7  But as they continued to ask Him, He lifted Himself up and said to them, He who is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her.

Mat 7:2  For with whatever judgment you judge, you shall be judged; and with whatever measure you measure out, it shall be measured to you again.

John 16:2  They shall put you out of the synagogue. But an hour is coming that everyone who kills you will think that he bears God service.

1 Peter 3:9-10  Never give back evil for evil, or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, giving blessing, knowing that you are called to this so that you might inherit blessing. For he that wants to love life and to see good days, let him restrain his tongue from evil, and his lips from speaking guile.

Gracetruth,

I presume your post is in defense of George Geftakys.  After reviewing your other verse-filled posts, it seems like you are defending George and so I will proceed in my response to that end.  Your use of the scriptures is very much in keeping with the Geftakys style.  I’ve noticed your first nine postings quoted verses for the most part.  It has been said before, but I will repeat it, your verses are quoted out of context.

No one is throwing a stone a George.  However, George needs to step down from leadership.  In the context of this passage, the woman was certainly not a leader of the synagogue.  Neither should George be of any assembly.


That is quite true.  If one man is an adulterer and he condemns another, such as George Geftakys, the first will be judged by the measure he judged George.  Your argument is pointless!  Do you know of adultery by leaders who condemned George?  Their adultery needs to be brought to the light then.  However, to carelessly throw a verse on the bulletin board in order to imply something or, perhaps, condemn others is an erroneous and careless way to handle the Word of God.  Indeed, every careless word will be judged.  (Matthew 12:35-37 “The good man out of his good treasure brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of his evil treasure brings forth what is evil.  And I say to you, that every careless word that men shall speak, they shall render account for it in the day of judgment.  For by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned.”)  I know I have been careless in the past, but I have also repented of it, have you?


Can you explain this?  Who are you referring to?  If to George, well no one has killed George!  Regarding his sins, he has invalidated his position as a shepherd of God’s people.  In Titus 1:5-9 it says, “For this reason I left you in Crete, that you might set in order what remains, and appoint elders in every city as I directed you, namely, if any man be above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion.  For the overseer must be above reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain, but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled, holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, that he may be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.”

Dissipation n The state of being spread thin.  Dissolution (the act of lacking restraint; esp: loose in morals).

It also says in Zechariah 8:16-17, “These are the things which you should do: speak the truth to one another; judge with truth and judgment for peace in your gates.  Also let none of you devise evil in your heart against another, and do not love perjury; for all these are what I hate,’ declares the LORD.”

I would say most ex-members on this bulletin are not paying evil for evil but rather are speaking the truth in love.  Personally, I would rather that all involved would repent and be fully restored as well as those who have been hurt.  I would like George and his family to repent.  I would like for everyone who has been stumbled to be restored.

Now to address you, Gracetruth.  Who are you?  Are you afraid to reveal your identity?  In I John 4:18-19 it says, “There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.  We love, because He first loved us.”  God loves you and you can post, with your identity, without fear.  (I am supposing you are not in fear of judgment)  It also says in, I John 1:7 “but if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.”

I would like to add to my previous post.


I've noticed it is very common for the assembly to identify with afflicted individuals in the Bible.  I've heard various leaders refer to themselves as "persecuted Joseph", "like an Elijah", and other such nonsense.  Often they proceed to "fit" their life to the life of one of the patriarchs or a new testament person.  This is a very cultish thing to do.  As the cults also revel in their identification with biblical characters.
The problem with this is they usually have to so tweak their lives in order to "fit the mold", that the end result is a presentation in self-justification.

The woman in the above passage was truly forgiven and allowed to start anew.  The same is offered to all.  However, the leaders need to step down.  They need to repent and start anew.  It's available to them.  But if they harden their hearts, their only expectation will be the wrath of God.

Hebrews 3:7-11  "Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says, Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as when they provoked Me, As in the day of trial in the wilderness, Where your fathers tried Me by testing Me, And saw My works for forty years.  Therefore I was angry with this generation, And said, They always go astray in their heart; And they did not know My ways; As I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest."

Hi Eric!
  Good answers!
    Public congratulations to Loretta and you re. your new baby! :) :)  She's a cutie! :)
                               God Bless,  Mark

Just a thought on the 'throwing stones thing'.

As was pointed out here or on one of the other strings:

No one is intending to commit murder. The thought of 'Love'
seems to be misused. Over the years the thought of 'Tough
Love' has been presented. People are expressing themselves.

Now, if it was without 'Love', the persons being accused, if they
haven't already been indicted would have been physically stoned.

They are receiving 'grace'. They have the opportunity to make things
right. Then comes the judgement. Don't judge us 'too harshly' - we are
being faithful to uncover darkness. If anyone feels threatened, that is
totally a personal issue - in their mind.

Eric,
I would recommend removing gt's off topic post from this thread except for your excellent reply to him.  Keep it up!