AssemblyBoard

I didn't want to take the other thread off track, so I started a new one.  Many times Tom has told stories about how he caught George in a lie, or inconsistency.  He claims to have witnessed George abusing others, and numerous times was the victim  of abuse from George.

My  question is how long did you (all, plural) know the truth, and comprehend that something was wrong before you did anything about it, if in fact you ever did anything?

Great question Frankette!   Although I believe that Tom M has answered this question in the past, it is a good question for all who were involved in the Assembly and many of the  regulars on here have given some sort of answer to this.
   At face value, I have no problem seeing that people like Tom and Steve and others who were there at the beginning played a role in establishing the foundation of the Temple of George and probably saw many red flags...but maybe more clearly looking back than at the time?   I think that every "worker" should have a list of warnings that they had to in some way excuse or file away for any number of reasons.   I'm not suggesting that this BB is the place to answer (speaking to former workers who see the Truth) but you should know that there are many out there who are still asking why and how and you may be able to help them.   (Actually I don't think that this BBS is a good place to try to have a clear conversation at all!)

Again, that is a very valid question Franks...

Still amused,

Tony

   

Good question. I’ve been thinking the same thing for years. Let’s see......The Assembly started in the early or mid 70's right? So I would calculate about 27 years or so that people knew before they decided to take a stand and do something about it. Wow......a little slow on the uptake ah boys?  ??? But on a less sarcastic note. How tragic for those who had no idea that is was a scam and gave so much just to become victims.
Mia

Some of us didn't have a choice: we were born into it. Others of us stayed for a variety of very powerful reasons. And also, a lot of people didn't know about the corruption, and there were those who DID stand up and try to do something. But yes, it was tragic for everyone. The point is, we're out now.

Elizabeth,
   Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that the majority knew. Not at all. Most were victims who truly believed that they were serving god. And as for being born into all of it, I was there, I know. But GG and his wife and both of his sons and most of the men in the inner circle in Fullerton knew for a long, long time and did nothing. In fact, they went out of there way to help cover it up. Why not? It was a money making machine and the things GG did to those that tried to stand up were devastating. But you say people did stand up and we all know they did after the damaging evidence of what George had been covering up was exposed. But before that? For the 27 years of abuse before 2002. I would love to hear about the people that stood up back then.
   Your right, we are out now. Isn’t it awesome to watch prime time and have a Christmas tree, and watch Sunday football live!? But the scares are still there and they will always be there. A part of the pain will always be there. No this BB isn’t the place to find the answers or the healing but it’s nice to see that I’m not the only one still feeling frustrated. And that is the only reason I was moved to post.
Mia

All:

Actually, according to all accounts I have seen or heard, the Assembly began in January 1971, although the seminars went back to 1970 (seeing what I saw in the old tape room   ::).    So it may have been 32 years of abuse.  Some would say that George wasn't walking with the Lord when this whole thing started.  I couldn't say.

As for me, the first thing I saw that was really seriously "off" was something I heard in a tape meeting in the late 1990s at the Palm Street building.  It was a tape of GG preaching in the seventies (or early eighties, maybe?) and he preached that "for sure"  the Lord was coming back in 1988.  I started at that, but after the tape was shut off, the brother in charge of the meeting acknowledged the "gaffe" but added, "God overruled."    A few days later I read in a passage in Deuteronomy that if a man claims to be a prophet but his words do not come to pass, God's people are not to be afraid of him;  He did not send that man. 

I should have left then and there, but I didn't.  I stayed until the event and a few months after.  There were not many heroes in this whole business.  Those of us who were loudest and most persistent in our denunciation of the assembly system after the fact did not speak up when it would have meant something.

Matt Sciaini

Hey Matt:
I have to say though, that you asked one of the best questions when we had those "What To Do Now" meetings just after the excommunication. Do you remember that?

You said: "Ummm....I know we're talking about where to go from here, but I'm still trying to figure out where we were?"

My husband got a real kick out of that question and thought it was one of the most profound questions of the entire meeting. Not to mention, it was pretty hilarious, in a tragic sort of way.

 :)

I'll divide this response into two categories.  1) As a youngster who had no choice but to go to the assembly and 2) As a 19 year old who chose to be involved in the assembly....

As a youngster, probably the first real memory I had that I was involved in something that was not normal and extremely bizarre was the assemblies approach to Halloween and Christmas.  I can laugh about it now, but at the time, it was unbelievably humiliating to go to school for the first half of the day on Halloween, then to be pulled out of school minutes before the Halloween party was to begin and have to take the abuse of all of my little buddies that the church I was involved in was a nuthouse, blah, blah, blah..For some crazy reason, George and Co. decided that wearing a costume to a school party and going through a school parade would lead to us some day participating in satanic rituals where we would sacrifice goats or bite the heads off of birds....Kind of humorous how it all worked out.  There were also a few years where we did not celebrate Christmas either.  I just remember very vividly not wanting any of my buddies to come over to my house so I could avoid "dude, where's your Christmas tree" questions.  Fortunately, my dad decided after two or three years of not celebrating Christmas that we were going to celebrate it, but could not overrule my mom on the Halloween deal, which actually turned out o.k. as I probably didn't need all those sweets anyhow and it gave me my yearly dose of humility:) . In a nutshell, the assembly leadership tried as hard as they possibly could to put kids in siutations where they would stick out like sore thumbs...all in the name of "taking a stand", which made me think to myself that this was really kind of a strange deal that I was involved in....

As a college age student who chose to make to be involved, the first thing that didn't seem right was going to California for a seminar, and seeing the house George lived in.  I just remember thinking to myself that for a guy that didn't work, and was always bitching and moaning about how needy he was and how little he had, he sure had an emaculate place.  I remember it being twice as big as the house that I grew up in, and my parents both worked and had great jobs in a market that was far less expensive than in California....We had a heck of a nice place too!  That was the first set of warning bells that went off.  I tried to ignore those bells until a some other really bizarre stuff happened during that two week period that  I was out there.  I came back to Omaha after that trip out there, lasted through about 15 minutes of worship, got up and left and never went back!

Elizabeth:

Yes, I do remember that.  I thought that it was actually during the week of praying for revival just before the excommunication, but that period of time was somewhat of a blur anyway.

I still wonder "where I was".  I'm very ambivalent about the whole thing still.

Matt Sciaini

We're talking many years ago, but the first thing that didn't seem right to me was the high pressure inviting after I attended the first Bible Study on campus. Normally, if you attend a church for the first time they will thank you for coming, and might invite you to attend a Bible Study, etc., but they leave it up to you to attend.

After my first visit to the study, I was asked for my phone number(in a very friendly manner--
nothing ominous here). The brother who asked for the number immediately began calling me
and encouraging me to go to the evening Bible study. At first it made me feel good that someone
would care so much about me to remember to call, etc. I went to the evening study, which was
small(it was out in the San Fernando Valley in Southern California).

But this brother, "Stan"(a very friendly fellow by the way), started calling for me to attend other
studies, and I began to make excuses, because I was beginning to feel very "pressured". I remember my mother saying that if I felt so guilty about "not attending a study" something must
be wrong with the group. It was at this point that I first knew something was wrong, and should
have departed, but I began to believe what was being told to me about being "committed" and
I was hooked--although I had a sense of conflict until the final day when I left the Assembly.

I think all of us(or at least, most of us) had this "twinge of conscience" that warned us, but we
didn't take heed. Something about our lives had produced a kind of "need" for a place like this,
but God through our conscience was attempting to warn us that this "need" would lead us into
error.

--Joe

the first thing i noticed as a kid was that people would mysteriously disappear. they were there one day and then poof! gone with no forwarding address.

it really sucked when it was someone i loved. in the self-centered way of children, i took it personally. i didn't understand, obviously, what was really going on. so i just believed what i was told: "they left fellowship." they might as well have dropped straight into hell, that's how bad it seemed to me.

along with my massive fear of being Left Behind at the rapture, i developed a highly-sensitive mechanism for predicting who would leave and who would stay. if i could predict it, i could prepare for it (ie not get too close in the first place). talk about a screwed up way to live.  :(

the upside is: as an adult i've been able to reconnect with some of those people, and it's been an indescribable relief.

Interesting to see how it looked from a kid's viewpoint.

When I left I had thought it through for a long time, and finally made up my mind to do it.  I was convinced that I was doing the right thing.  But I still bought the idea that "those people" had left for the wrong reasons.

Then I started talking to some of them.  I will never forget how the idea that they also had good reasons for leaving "blew my mind."  Wow!  What a change in perspective.   What a relief.  I was not alone...they had just awakened to the truth before I had.

I will never forget what my daughter Joy said to me a couple of sundays after the final break.  We were sitting in the morning service at EV Free in Fullerton, and they were singing "King of my life I crown thee now...".  Joy leaned over and said, "Daddy these people aren't bad like they said they were."

 :'( and  :D

Blessings,

Thomas Maddux

Boy does this comment bring back some painful memories!
The lost friendships and fellowship were by far the most heart-breaking aspects of leaving.
In fact, I do not think one can fully understand the psychology of those reamaining in such a place as this until one understands the fear of lost realtionships.
I think this is the only reason some folk stuck around.
The greatest joy for me was to re-establish contact with many dear friends, including guys like Paul Hohulin.... :)
I stlil remember how thunderstruck I was when I heard that Steve Irons had left.
At that point, I was totally convinced that we were indeed dealing with corrupt, deceiving an unspeakably vicious group of people at the top...and I hardly knew Steve...!
Mark Miller also tried to convince me that the destruction of the Tuscola assembly was due to "unfaithful shepherds" like Jim McCumber. Even though I did not have all the details at the time, there was something revolting about his comment.
Out his own mouth God will judge him...
Verne

The first that that didn't seem right. This would have to be it for me. My best freind in 6th grade invited my to "chapter summary" we were best freinds until one day I went to a prayer meeting without him and sensed something wasn't right because I couldn't visit and had the impression he had done something wrong. occasionally I would talk to him but it wasn't the same.

On a positive note I spoke with his mom in July who told me how he and his family is doing so the reconnection is taking place. How funny is this that his wife and mine both have due dates around the same time.

Quote from Verne:"The greatest joy for me was to re-establish contact with many dear friends, including guys like Paul Hohulin.... "

Paul was a brother that was always a blessing to be around.  He was the one person that always asked before using my car and brought it back with a full tank (even if the tank was on empty when he got it).  Thank you Paul.  Your kindness and consideration are still appreciated to this day  ;D

The first thing that didn't seem right to me was the lack of respect for family relationships (or any relationships) outside the assembly. Even though my clan was a crazy dysfuntional bunch, they were still my family, and not to not honor them at Christmas or other normal family events was wrong.  I knew that, but was conflicted because I was being told that it wasn't Christ honoring to miss a meeting just to be with my family.
Gay

It is quite telling to see how those who left the assembly, particularly those formerly in leadership, have subsequently led their lives True servants are still serving, and doing so with God's blessing.
The thing about families in the assembly was strange in the extreme.
George was obsessed with pitting family members against one another, sons against fathers, husbands against wives, brother against brother, all in the name of loyalty to his idolatrous "work".
I think it was knowledge of the rot in his own house that gave him a perverse delight in corrupting other families.
Made his seem more normal.
Those who got involved with him knowing what he did to that Omaha family are sick, sick, sick...!
Verne

It’s somewhat hard to say as it isn’t like we see one thing and say, “Oh my!  This place is wrong.  I must leave”.   Most of us who weren’t born into the Assembly really wanted the things the Assembly promised so we developed an incredible ability to overlook, justify and deny.

In one sense, it is arguable that I noticed something on the very first worship service I attended in 1977.  I remember observing George popping up and down and taking control.  I remember that he reminded me of an over dominating relative I had.  I thought, “Boy this guy is in charge”.   This seemed a little inconsistent with the “brother among brother” claims.

I dismissed it, of course, because it didn’t strike me as bad and I didn’t think that a room full of college-aged students (and a few middle-aged folks thrown in) would be wrong in their high estimation of Brother George.

I remember sending away in 1981 to Christian Research Institute for information.  I don’t remember what prompted it, but I suspect things were bothering me about the Assembly.  There wasn’t a lot of info on the Assembly (compared them to the shepherding movement) so I chuck it up to my own carnality and plunged back in.

One time in that period, I started visiting other churches.  Some churches confirmed all the bad things that the Assembly said about denominational churches.  I remember I went to a church in Long Beach and they had this vibrant college group.  The college pastor spoke on dating (a relative topic).  When I was leaving, a Christian asked me if I went to church there.  I said no.  He said, “Come on, make this your home!”  Something welled up within me.  He had no idea how much I wanted to, but I knew I couldn’t.  By this time, I knew I couldn’t leave.

When I got back to school on Monday, a sister (known for her militancy) asked me where I was.  I told her the truth.  She said in a very sorrowful voice, “do you think that was God’s will?”  I said yes.  She then got the head of that campus who talked to me about what a bad example I was being for the campus ministry.  I felt bad and told him I wouldn’t do that again.

After I graduated, I sought out a brother who had left and we had a long discussion about the Assembly and its problems.  The next day and elder with whom I was working confronted me and I burst into tears.  I repented and ended up moving into a brother’s house.

This characterized my twelve years there.  There were times when I really believed the Assembly was where God was working and that I was a part of something great.  At other times, I wrestled with doubts.  At other times, I tried to reckon myself dead to this tendency to “not want to go the way of the cross” and think badly about the brethren.  At other times, I would claim a promise and know that I wanted to be sent out into the work.

In the last few years in the assembly, I really began to dry up.  George used to say that folks would leave when they got married because they “got what they want”.  I think it is because marriage tends to mature people and they begin to ask the question “do I really want to raise my family here?”  I can endure much more hardship if it is just me, but if I am the head of a household, that is something else.  I was behind in maturity but as I was approaching thirty, I began to grow up.

There were times when I believed George’s teaching was off and I kept my thoughts to myself (after all, maybe its there but I am just not seeing it).  There were times when I knew there were other strong believers in other churches and that everything said about these churches were not true (but then, we do take pains to do things according to the New Testament “pattern”).  I remember hearing a preacher for the first time and being amazed that (unlike under George’s ministry) I actually understood the passage better.  I remember even thinking to myself “George is the uprising and the downfall of the Assembly.”

Was there really something wrong or was it the flesh and the devil?

One key event was after a seminar lecture where I was tired, exhausted, and empty.  The seminars weren’t doing it for me anymore.  I wasn’t getting it.  I went to the Christian bookstore and came across the book “How to read the Bible for all its worth”.  For the first time, I began to be able to hold onto something concrete.

You see, for all these years, all I had was, “this doesn’t feel right” or “this doesn’t seem right” or “I don’t think I agree with that” but I never had a strong objective truth to compare these feelings with.  I was taught to read the Bible with my Assembly glasses on.  But, when I saw that there is a way to interpret Scripture based upon fair playing rules that everybody (not just God’s anointed) can understand, I began to believe with confidence that George was mishandling Scripture to support some of his ideas and many of the cherished, non-negotiable practices of the Assembly that set us apart from other churches.  His mystique of having inside “God” information fell away.

Certainly, I didn’t walk right out the door there.  Talking with others that left, realizing that we all had common concerns, solidifying these ideas helped me understand that the problem wasn’t just me.  Not to mention that seeing some “behind the scenes” things in the dealing with Steve and Lee Irons was an enlightening education.

When did I start seeing problems?  I saw things from my first day and from that day attempted to grasp the good and stuff the bad.  I had no emotional context to call the bad “bad” so I sought by faith to enter into the good while being dogged by nagging inconsistencies.  Finally, after twelve years, I was emotionally ready to face the bad and walk out the door for the last time.

Dave,

   This is very interesting to me.  I find the following a somewhat subtle hint of George's preoccupation with male/female relationships.
Dave wrote:
"In the last few years in the assembly, I really began to dry up.  George used to say that folks would leave when they got married because they “got what
they want”. 

   What do you think that George meant by "They got what they want." ?

    I believe that many people could recount similar *hints*.   I have seen other examples in other writings on here and on Reflections.

Dave, Elizabeth, Just Me, Gay and others...this is a good and healthy post-Assembly discussion.   I believe that others can benefit from hearing honest personal stories whether you left three or fifteen years ago.
 
Dave wrote:
"I think it is because marriage tends to mature people and they begin to ask the question “do I really want to raise my family here?” 

   I think you are right.

Thankful,

Tony

Hope I quoted correctly because this just "hit me"  I used to think the Assembly was the place I wanted to be.  I had my doubts but I really believed the burdens we prayed for in the prayer meetings  I remember one was for the "raising up and sending forth laborers into the work" I prayed and would also get a promise and desire to serve god and be a part of the "work" I went to "summer school" and even a "Mission and training team" and had my eyes opened to how " the work" really worked. It was shortly after the latter that I decided that I needed to step out in faith(because I always allowed the "leading brothers" to tell me I couldn't make decisions) I wanted to have a family and be head of the household. I think it was when leaders basically told me I couldn't hear God's voice and follow it that I left  and the 7 years since leaving God has really confirmed my decisions and shown me what happens if I trust him. After leaving I learned more about myself and that making decisions isn't a bad thing. I have learned that I and my family are not robots. This is just what I think but those who got married and left did so because they had a vision for their family and what God wanted and didn't want to have others tell them how to raise their family. That's just what I think tho.

do you remember hearing this a lot: "We may have problems, but this is where God put us. We shouldn't just leave. Leaving is forsaking the gathering and is unspiritual. We need to work on the problems and find answers."

but nothing got fixed!  >:(

in fact, it just kept getting worse. problems piling on problems and the "spin" kept getting crazier and crazier; a veritable merry-go-round that kept speeding up a la Ray Bradbury's "Something Wicked This Way Comes."

I do remember hearing this and wondering how come the problems aren't being resolved and time would go on and on meetings, outreaches etc would come and go with few visitors meanwhile "great things are happening"  I remember one leading brother praying in a doorkeepers meeting for the "marriage worthy" bretheren in our midst (Everyone in that particular meeting was married except me) This sure felt like a cheap shot before worship to me :-\ When I first started going I could tell how close everyone was and could see the enthusiasm then gradually that closeness would fade away. I also heard pray always and also walk before God not men

ABD2

You said:


In my case, one of the things that really got me thinking about leaving was that I had three daughters.  I asked myself the question, "Do I want one of my daughters to marry a mindlessly loyal follower of GG?" 

The answer was a definite no.

Tom