AssemblyBoard

All:

I got this idea from something I just heard of recently called "fantasy football" , where people line up teams of their own choosing against each other, and then decide (and wager, I think) on whom they think would win in a game.

What about....fantasy meetings? 

For those of us not aware of the structure of an assembly meeting, it typically consisted of three brothers giving "messages"  (sermons)...with a young brother first, a more mature brother speaking second, and an elder or leading brother (or someone with a "real burden"  speaking last.  The Lord, we were told, made the selection (sometimes it seemed so, other times it did not, at least not to the edifying of the hearers).

Perhaps there were some brethren that you wanted to hear preach (maybe you could even describe a message for them), but it never came to pass.  Well, now on this forum, on this board, you can make it happen, even if only in your dreams.

For example---this would be my meeting......if you are from a different locale or from a different time, you can fill in your own choices....

1.   H.  DeLeon----The need for leadership
2.   D.  Hittle--The need for pillars
3.   R. Ressegue--Servants in the house

This has some potential pitfalls, and I know most of my daffy ideas have been flat out ignored before, but creativity has its price, I guess. ::)

Anyone game?

Matt

Matt,

Sounds promising, but how do we score & who determines the points?

---

How's this sound:

1. Verne Carty:  How the Lord Leads Us

2. Tom Maddux:  How the Lord Doesn't Lead Us

3. George Geftakys:  The Implications Of the Attributes Of God As Viewed In Light Of The Heavenly Journey As It Pertains To The Lord's Work Toward Perfecting Our Commitment To the Death Of Self and the Life Of the Cross Reflected In the Vision Of the Order Of the Days Of Creation Applied To the Prophecies Of the End Times In Every Book Of the Bible

al

P.S.-- Hey Matt, can we have fantasy doorkeepers, too? ;)

If the "fantasy meeting" is listening speakers I consistantly enjoyed listening to I would say:
1.  Jim Hayman
2.  Dan Notti
3.  Curtis Miles
4.  Bob Ford
5.  Earl Sommerville

Some others were hit or miss.  There were those on the other end who I inwardly dreaded when they stood up, but I see no reason to embarrase them by mentioning their name.

ok, i'm confused. i was laughing hysterically with matt & al's posts and thusly posted my own satirical piece, only to read that dave & abd2 go all serious. huh?

it's not REAL fantasy meetings like: "hey, let's really post which preachers we actually enjoyed"...or is it?

i'm keeping my post deleted until we return to regularly scheduled satirical programming! :-)

matt: it was a great and hilarious idea, so please define your rules for play! i wanna laugh some more!

btw, dave, these preachers humiliated and embarrassed us publicly, what's wrong with throwing it back and having a little fun? like they even read this board!  ::)

Uhm I deleted my original post. I was not being serious. ::) It is a great idea and I thought it was hillarious. One of the brothers on the list I included stood in my face and was so angry over nothing so I would seriously not want to really hear him. I didnt think we were being serious. My intention of having the 6 on my llist was to make light about how long that day would be. Now back to the regular scheduled programming.

Matt, thanks for your post it is creative and I got a laugh out of it.   I like the fantasy doorkeeprs idea what about fantasy seminars?  I'll be watching for the scoring rules 8)


This would be my "fantasy meeting"  I remember the white board where you'd have the title and points A thru E. Wow I wished for a Starbucks in my area( there were no Starbucks nearby)  :'(     because its supposed to be a  2 1/2 hour meeting I wont list the 5 points

1) Fellowship: The need to be committed
Announcements( this takes 10 minutes since we have events everyday allday and evening)
2) What it means to be committed
3) "the work"  how workers are chosen and raised up

preprayer at 2pm

hey Al, can you tell me how many points the 3rd brother has so I can  make a coffee run before the meeting  ;D

OK, I wasn't trying to start a contraversy here.  I wasn't sure what Matt was looking for.  I do enjoy satire.  I was thinking of doing a saterical post, but I didn't have time to come up with one.  So I went with the serious comment.

I don't have any problem with satire.  In fact, I had put such piece up myself.  Some of the folks I was thinking of didn't do me any harm.  They were just lousy speakers in an environment where it was thought that all brothers should preach.

Please don't let my post splash cold water on things. 

OK.  I got us on the wrong trail the last time, so here goes my thoughts for my team:

1.  Pop up Perry - All day Saturday during your stewardships you were thinking of this great word.  After dinner, you work late into the night studying, organizing, and polishing your message for God's people.  You wait with great anticipation as the last prayer is made before the ministry is time.  You put your feet into the harness ready to go forward but . . .  before the last Amen is even said, Pop-up Perry has popped up and raced to the front.  He gets up every week saying "The Lord put this on my heart in my quiet time".  Next week, you are going to tie his shoelaces together.

2.  Three Point Thadius - Thadius is a faithful brother.  He is always ready steady with a monotone, "well, are you rejoicing".  He doesn't always get up, but when he does it is a ready steady three point message.  Usually his message is "Today I want to talk about servants" and his points are "A servant is available", "A servant is faithful", "A servant enters in."  A verse is attached to every point.

3.  Fred the Flipper - You can usually tell which chapter Fred is in because it is the chapter he spends the least time in.  He will introduce the text and then start having you flip throughout the Bible to thousands of verses that suppsedly "illuminate" the text.  The verses are usually connected because they happen to share a common word, but sometimes the connection is not so obvious.  While flipping, little side comments like "this is tremendous" is used to generate excitement for the exercise.

Maybe I'll think of more later.

Hi Dave, Wow I forgot about Saturdays. It was usually a dinner I had to prepare :-\  I would've maybe tied "pop up perry's shoestrings to the chair on Sunday.. Oh wait perhaps i was his roommate so maybe hide his car keys :D

I found a few more for my team:

Cliché Carl – Carl has a difficult time coming up with meaningful stories and analogies to engage God’s people, so he relies on clichés.  Carl is always ready and you can always depend on him.  Whenever he shares the gospel publicly he will start off with the phrase “the gospel is good news”.  He will engage his audience with such gems as “so what’s going to save you?  Will your yacht save you?  Will your bank account save you?  Huh?  Only Christ can save you.”  He will further his message with such insights as “So you’re doing well under the circumstances.  What are you doing under the circumstances?”  and “It’s only what you learn after you know everything that really matters.”  Carl can prepare messages quickly because he simply has to choose another passage of scripture and rearrange the order of his clichés.

Discerner of Theme Dale – Dale operates under the belief that the Holy Spirit superintends the worship service and gives it a unique and distinctive theme.  He will usually begin his word by saying, “Well, it was obvious that the theme of worship today was ‘the centrality of Christ’ and that is exactly the same burden that God put on my heart in this message ‘Abraham, the friend of God’”.  Everyone shouts “Amen” at this stunning leading of God.  Some are nagged by the thought that they didn’t quite see this theme in worship and how it connects with his message but that is only because Dale is so much more spiritually discerning.

Deer in the Headlights Don – Don is a weaker brother.  In fact, he lacks in the area of commonly accepted social skills.  However, God has put a burden upon Don’s heart to minister to God’s people on Sunday morning.  He sees it as a direct leading of the Holy Spirit though it could be attributed to the fact that at the brother’s meeting two weeks ago the leading brothers railed and exhorted that everyone needs to be exercised to give ministry.  Don has been under much stress all day Saturday and through the worship thinking about what he has to do.  At last, the final prayer was given and he took his place at the starting block.  As soon as the brother started to say “Amen”, Don shot to the front almost knocking over the card table.  He made it and felt a sense of relief.  He then turned around and saw a million puzzled faces with inquisitive eyes and mouth agape.

It took a few moments, but he began to mumble his message.

“SPEAK UP, BROTHER!” came a harsh voice to his left.

His message, which last night was so important and now sounded lame, came back to him.  He began to share his thoughts.  The room was silent except for the sound of a cricket cherping in the back of the room.  He was relieved when he gave a verse reference and people responded and started turning pages in their Bible.  He gave his three points and was surprised that he was done in 28 seconds.  A few merciful sisters said “Amen” occasionally because they felt sorry for him.  After he sat down, a leading brother got up and launched into his message which had so much more authority and Don began to remember the things he forgot to say.

After the meeting, a leading brother encouraged Don to exercise his gift at the Thursday night prayer meeting for a while before he got up on a Sunday again.

ABD2,

Not sure just how it breaks down-- better bring an urnful to keep you awake & an empty gallon container so you can "decaffeinate" when necessary! ;D ;D ;D

---

Elizabeth,

Please bring back your original post.  I was guessing that all three of your fantasy bros. had a last name in common...

al

Elizabeth had added a novel twist to the fantasy game:  The poster gives the themes of the messages, and the readers have to guess the names of the speakers.  Try these:

1. Consequences: why they must never be positive.

2. The purpose of nepotism in the Work.

3. Fanning the "heavenly breezes" into a category five hurricane.

(Hint: There may be several correct answers to any of these.)

al ;)

Dave---

That is hilarious! "Deer in the headlights Don" reminds me of the one time I got up and
gave a "word" one Sunday morning. I had convinced myself that I was to give a word,
and I worried about it all night, and Sunday morning too. I did exactly what you said---
I literally lept up when the brother finished the prayer and beat all the competition to
the front. I had prepared what I thought was a good "word" and had a line-up of one-
liners to go with it. I actually got quite a few laughs, and sat down, with quite a few
brothers eyeing me suspiciously.

I was "sincere" about giving the message, and several brothers told me I was "really growing"
in the Lord due to giving the word. But it had all actually been quite forced, and scared the
living daylights out of me at the time. Your other characters ring quite true also--that is really
funny!!

--Joe

certain broth-uhz preached themes that were near and dear to their burdened hearts. what always cracked me up was when abrother would get up and preach his theme, the second brother would get up and improve on it and the third brother would get up and correct all the errors of the first two brothers and then try to preach what the theme REALLY meant!  :D by the time the third brother was preaching, all the saints had exhausted their "amen" supply since they didn't know who they should be amen-ing anymore.

if I "amen" to the 1st brother, does "amen-ing" to the 3rd brother mean I'm disagreeing with the first two?

on certain topics, such as "wife-training" for example, it was always patently obvious which saints supported the idea vs. the ones who disagreed. there were two very tell-tale signs: who was saying amen and who was taking notes. if you were not saying amen and not taking notes, you disagreed. if you were barking out "amen" every couple minutes and vigorously scribbling notes---you agreed.

during the whole "wife-training" phase there was this unspoken support/dismiss preaching going on. one brother would get up and disseminate his ideas on "wife-training"---one of the supporting texts was sarah calling abraham "lord". once that brother sat down, another brother would get up and give 'corrective' preaching. hilarious stuff, really.

as far as i can tell, this only produced rampant confusion & various (unspoken, of course!) schisms.

so i suppose my fantasy meeting would be one in which brothers preach on their favorite theme, only to have the follow-up brother totally tear apart their message and point out all the flaws. to round off my fantasy meeting, i'd have a beautiful sister rip her headcovering off, shout out stunning truths and be promptly hustled from the meeting screaming out GG's secrets!

Man, I almost (but not quite) wish I'd been there.  In the early days in Mecca (F'ton) nobody left an ANOP early!  In the wee hours, the Amens would dwindle & the heavenward utterances became less intelligible, but nobody dared vamoose until the Referee called time!

In all seriousness, the church I now attend is a sheer delight in that children wander in & out of the worship service, babies cry, parents get up to look after their kids, and people actually go to the restroom during prayers, ministry, singing etc.-- all without causing any major distraction.  There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus...  Real liberty without licentiousness. :) :) :)

al

I could add one other character to the list:

Mimicking Mike------Mike has all of George's mannerisms, inflections and voice tone
down to a tee. He clears his throat just like George does and even uses the same
phrases George does even though he's only 22 years old. He'll share a verse, clear
his throat, and say "Isn't that grand?"("grand" being a term that was used when George
was a kid that means the same thing roughly as "isn't that cool?") It's kind of like
Dr. Evil in the Austin Powers movies and his smaller version,  "Mini-me".

"deer in the headlights" reminded me of one of the few times I got up. I write down all these notes and verses and get up there and just freeze.  Oh afterwords everybody was so encouraged that I stood up. If I could read minds I am sure I would have heard them laughing their heads off ;D

Ooooh, Oooooh, Oooooh, Leme guess, leme, PLEEEZ!!!!!! I know who #1 is.  It's Betty.  Am I right? Huh? Am I??  She may not have actually been the face that was seen giving the word, but she was a very gifted ventriloquist  ;D

Hey, I like this game!!!

Gay

I think I got #3= George, maybe this would be the topic of one of a Seminar meeting maybe the first Satuday meeting to prepare us for The full force of a Sunday full of lectures  ;D

Try this one. 1 point per correct guess.

1. Wife Training, OR, how to spend all my time sipping venti lattes in starbucks (and chatting with single sisters) while my wife slaves away with our many children=   Brother ____________?

2. The Knowledge of Good & Evil, OR, a great excuse to show off my PowerPoint skills during sunday afternoon meetings= Brother _________?

3. Pro-Creation, OR, why birth control is of the devil (every sperm is sacred!) = Brother ____________?

the first one to post the 3 correct answers is the daily-double winner!

They allowed PowerPoint at an afternoon meeting?!?  I guess things have changed after I left.

dave, you never heard about the wild n' crazy 90's?  ;)

yeah, things were OUT of control, man!

OK Liz,

Best guess here: 1. Rod 2. Dan N. 3. Dan M-B

I suppose this would fit under the fantasy meetings theme (or nightmarish). Anyone at the meeting in Fullerton where the brother got up and his text was, "We have a little sister and she hath no breasts."??? From Song of Solomon. Then he went on to compare--spiritually of course--a woman's chest size to her spirituality. And by the end of his word all the sisters--who hadn't gone to the bathroom to laugh out loud--had their arms fold across their chests.

That one was hysterical, even more so because it happened. What a leading brother's meeting must've followed that one.

#1 &#3 are incorrect. but, i guess a couple of these are interchangeable, now that i think of it.

#2 is correct! ding! ding! ding! what does she win folks?

congratulations, jem, you and a friend have received the consolation prize of 2 nights in Beulah Land where you will be treated to corn & wine and will take in a spectacular show of zephrys floating on the breeze! Music swells: Oooooooooooooohhhh, Beulah Land! Sweet Beulah Land!

That is absolutely hilarious!  I thought the prize for the worst spiritualization was when a brother got up and likened Ehud getting his sword swallowed by the fat belly of Eglon, king of Moab (Judges 3:15-15) to "thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee".   This one you share, I admit, takes the cake.

jem, yes i was there for the Big Breasts=Godly Woman analogy. it was at a prayer meeting just after the seminar on the Song of Solomon. in all fairness, this poor single brother (who was and is actually a friend of mine) was simply regurgitating what he'd heard GG say at the seminar. of course, it was considered perfectly spiritual and holy for GG to say this in the course of his seminar lecture, but wholly inappropriate for this single brother to repeat it at your run-of-the-mill weekly meeting.

another facet of our fantasy meetings should be: Run-Amok Analogies.

omg dave, those are hilarious!  ;D  i must have been at least three of those stereotypes at various points in my assembly career.

at prayer meeting this one unfortunate fellow was expounding on the 'organism vs organization' nature of the church, building up to the impassioned climax of his message: "and so we all work together like one Huge Perfect ORGASM"

*shocked silence*

"er, um, organism..."

Dave:  you are hilarious!  I was there for all of those guys.  I know them by name and you have them pegged.

Ok Elizabeth: I want to guess too.  Here is my guess.  1. Jim McAllister 2. Dan Notti - OF COURSE 3.  Jim McAllister, Rod Zach, Jim McAllister and every other guy with more than 6 kids.  I wonder what Jim's total is now.  Anyone heard?  Of course his sperm is sacred because he is of the enlightened.  His wife is of the......(how can I say this nicely)... oppressed, abused and lower caste.


Jem - I missed the full breasted ministry.  We must have been backslidden and missed the meeting.  What a shame.  That would have been good for quite a few laughs.  Should we tell some stories about HB?
me

No way Brian I am now trying to figure out who said that but give me time and I will. That is way too funny

1.) McCallister
2.)Notti
3.)Ron Womack?

My fantasy meeting:

GG.  "Are you with me friends?"

"Are you kidding?  How can we be with you?  You aren't making sense, you're taking the verses out of context, you're reading notes that are poorly written, and MAN WASN'T CREATED ON THE SEVENTH DAY!!  How in the He!! can anyone be with you?  Everyone here knows in their hearts that you're full of crap, and what's wrong with these spineless weasels that they let you get off saying man was created on the seventh day?  Why are you an adulterer?  Why do you let your son beat his wife?  Why do you handle all the money?

Oh, if your goons touch me, I'm going to fight.  In fact, I'm gonna kick your adulterous @ss right now!"

Now that's a fantasy!

Are you with me dear friends?

All:

I just spent about twenty minutes crafting some rules for this thing, and hit "esc" by accident.  I'll try it again.

BTW, I meant no ill will to the men I listed.  That order just would have been an absolute fantasy under the system.

Here goes:

first brother -- 0 to 10 points for a sermon

second brother-- -40 to 40 points for sermon

third brother--  -120 to 120 points for a sermon

GG-- -360 to 360 points for a Sunday morning sermon;   -1080 to 1080 points for a seminar message, which translates to -7560 to 7560 points for an entire seminar, at least the seven message variety.

Any other considerations?  I'm on a public computer, so it might not be until tomorrow that I respond.


Why the negative values?  Generally speaking, men of little experience in preaching or of little gift may do some good, certainly will do little harm.  But the "higher" one goes, or thinks he has progressed, the farther down he can fall.  If this is confusing to any, just think of GGs seminars from about 1998 on.   (maybe for some it was before this, but better late than never). 


Matt

My Fantasy Meeting:

GG is tied to a wooden chair below an empty stage where no one can see him.

Chair description:
       
The back is at a non-ergonomic slant, which prevents him from sitting straight up and creates an ache in his back for which there is no relief. The uncushioned seat is high enough from the floor, so that his feet dangle. This creates a slightly forward arch in the position of his back. His feet have 50 lb. weights attached to them as they dangle, which prevents him from changing his comfortable postion. The weights tug on his legs so that the circulation is cut off on the back of his thighs and his feet begin to tingle.

Close surrounding atmosphere:

Someone in back of him whispers to the back his head, which is wired to the back of the chair to prevent him from turning:  "You are not focused on the Lord.    You are not committed to the Lord.    You have no capacity for the things of the Lord.  You don't measure up.  The saints love you.   Your back aches?   You have no capacity for things of the Lord."

A pen is surgically sown into his left hand and his right hand is superglued to the spirals of a notebook.

The room is air-conditioned to 40 degrees and the pages from a 3 foot Bible continually turn in front of him to create an even cooler temperature of 32 degrees. 

(He is allowed only water to drink, through a straw since his mouth has been wired closed, and only before the meeting begins. He is not allowed to use the washroom facilities until the meeting ends, and only after everyone else has used the facilities.)

The meeting begins:

One by one, all children under 8 years old, walk, crawl or roll along the stage. When each one spots the man tied to the chair, they lean over the stage and suck loudly on their artificially lighted, neon-colored giant-sized pacifiers in 3 cycles of 7 slurps each. 

The excited young man sitting to the back left of GG, gets up to superglue each pacifier to the edge of the stage and hands each child a gold bar or, if they are still crawling, a gold bullion is tied around their little neck.

Next, two pianists enter to play duets on their respective pianos. This goes on for one hour as the audience claps after each piece. As the pianists play the more familiar hymns, the audience comes up to sing on the stage - three rows at a time. As they leave to allow the next three rows to sing on stage, they are each handed a gold bar by the excited young man sitting to the back left of GG.

The hymnbooks that they are holding are the Calvinist "Psalter Hymnal" and the "Lutheran Hymnal". The titles of the books have brightly lighted, neon-colored letters on the front and back covers and are written in modern Greek. As the singers leave the stage, they set them on end so that the brightly-lighted, neon-colored letters on the binding are facing GG, who is trying to sleep, but for the excited young man to his back left knocking GG's right shoulder with a piece of fool's gold in the shape of a halo each time he walks past, whispering, "the shame of it all, my man. The shame of it all."

The four bored women, who were stationed in each of the four corners of the room during the meeting, compare their notes to each of the four videos taken of GG's every move, change their notes and submit the completed revision along with the spliced video to the annual synod of the local chapter of the Calvinist Church of the West Coast held in Colorado.

Elizabeth and all:

I can only think of one preacher who ever REALLY publically humiliated me...and from what I heard his wife told him that he should stop--which he did, so I will not mention his name here.  

As for Al's request for fantasy doorkeepers, I think they definitely should be allowed.

I might even be one myself, seeing that I never "made it" to "real" doorkeeper.  
I probably would have scared people off from the meetings.  

And for scoring for these fantasy doorkeepers:

10 points for the front door check-in position...

20 points for exhibiting special wisdom in determining whether visitors would defile the meeting or not....

10 more points if visitors are admitted and sit where they are shown....20 if this is a successful sister seating. ;D

30 points if the visitors stay for all worship....

30 more points if the visitors stay for the entire morning meeting....

BONUS!   150 extra points if the experience was so good that the visitors came back for the afternoon meeting.

(doorkeeper scores points based on HIS visitor contact skills, and continues to score points based on what that visitor does throughout the assembly day as a result of his (the doorkeepers) initial interaction with said visitor.  NOTE:  the above scores are to be multiplied by the number of visitors the doorkeeper "intakes" and "processes").  

The doorkeeper(s) on seating can take their share of the intake doorkeeper's points--just divide by number of doorkeepers performing that function.

Those on the back door get 30 points automatically no matter what, because:

a)  it is a thankless job

b)  if anybody would try to do a sneak attack on the meeting, the backdoor doorkeeper would be right in line for it

c)  any stray emissions of gas would waft their way back to his area

Also, 30 extra points per doorkeeper for a Lord's supper procession successfully conducted.  

Oh, and I forgot about the person giving the message for the Lord's supper:

0-20 points for a Lord's supper message from a doorkeeper.

-40 to 40 points for a Lord's supper message from a leading brother or elder.

-120 to 120 points for a Lord's supper message from GG, unless he has a special burden for the morning, in which case normal scoring is suspended, because there can be no quantification of such out-of-control behavior.....MAYBE one can just write it off (or any GG day--morning, noon and night) as negative googol (which is 10 to the 100th power, I believe).

And, for the "garden variety" brother delivering a Lord's supper message:  0-120 points.

No negative here, because one must have a fair amount of gumption to tell a whole congregation to be seated and then walk up to the microphone to address them about something as important as the Lord's supper, if one is not recognized as being "anything" in the assembly.  0 points is the lowest, because however ineffective the message might be, given that the said brother is sound in doctrine and life, his bravery in getting up will cancel out a lame message.  The congregation will definitely break even.

I give these scores from the perspective of one who was in the Fullerton Assembly for 16 years, during a time when it was as large as it would ever be.  I realize that people from Champaign, Springfield, Tuscola or Spokane (most any assembly where the population was under 50) may find this cumbersome.  

Perhaps we can have different leagues.....bear in mind that these numbers are pre- 01-19-03;  many assemblies mentioned below do not even exist anymore (which doesn't matter;  after all, this IS fantasy):

the 'A' league for groups like Calgary, Madison, Spokane, and Tuscola (under 50 members)

the 'AA' league for groups like Huntington Beach, Arcata, San Francisco and Placentia (50-100 members)

the 'AAA' league for groups like Fullerton and Forest Park (Chicago area)  (over 100 members)

I hope this isn't too complicated, and would appreciate any contributions.  I'm not really a sports fan, but I felt this would be some good fun to have on the forum.  We were so often so serious in the old assembly about things that it was twisted.  Even the priests in the Old Testament partook of the offering as part of their provision from the Lord.  As far as I could tell, the poor doorkeepers never got a chance to gnaw on the bread leavings from the Lord's supper during their largely uneventful vigils out of sight of the congregation.  

(An aside on this:  a brother that I used to live with had me "go beyond the call of duty" during a seminar to make sure a meal in process was not burning or burning down the house, and I arrived back too late to partake of the bread, but he allowed me to partake thereof with the doorkeepers, whereupon one of the doorkeepers asked me "are you a doorkeeper"?  The poor brother who allowed me thought he would be in trouble.....but that was the whole caste mindset.  We were and are brothers in Christ....what difference when one partakes as long as it is in purity and godly sincerity?)

And one thing further that I might add:  my own experience with doorkeepers on my first meeting was not memorable, but not negative.  Any details in this setup here are gleanings from the writings of the experiences of others, or out of my sometimes twisted imagination, or even from observing things in Fullerton.

Matt  

the correct answers are:
1. McCallister
2. Notti
3. R. Zach

"Just Me" is the winner! And what does she win? She and a friend will enjoy a 7 nights in beautiful Beulah Land, feasting on corn & wine, have a mansion prepared for her and climb to Beulah Land's highest mount! Congratulations "Just Me" !
Music swells:
O Beulah Land, Sweet Beulah Land as on thy highest mount I stand, I look away across the sea, where mansions are prepared for me....!

coming soon: new themes and a new chance to win!

rock on, BATman!
we're with you, all the way, baby!

In light of the AAA FP team, I can think of some ways to collect negative and positive points.

20 negative points for each person crawled over on the way to the downstairs bathroom.

50 negative points for each trip to the bathroom during the meeting, the more kids assigned to you, the more trips you have.

100 positive points if you close the door before tripping down the one-person staircase to the bathroom.

500 negative points if your child takes a tumble down the towering staircase.

1000 neg points if YOU take the tumble (it has happened)

300 neg points if your voice travels from the bathroom basement area to the living room when a brother is preaching.

150 neg if you weren't aware that this could happen (first time occurance)

200 neg points if you aren't in your seat before the meeting starts

100 neg points if it was because you were in the line in the basement waiting to use the toilet.

333 neg points for child's coloring on the wall

600 neg points for child spilling drink on carpet

500 positive points for child wrongly being blamed for coloring on curtains

666 points for being in time for pre-prayer

1000 points for never being sick all year

500 neg points for letting the bread fall on to the floor

200 neg points for leaving lipstick marks on the cup

250 neg points for leaving a wax floater on the wine in the cup

250 neg points for passing a cup with a wax floater

500 pos points for meeting without working A/C

500 pos points for sitting in the coat rack (late stragglers) area in winter

100 neg points for saving a seat

700 positive points for collapsing a wooden chair, 1000 if it happens during sunday morning preaching. (it has happened)

I don't know that anyone would want to be on this team, but if interested, you could pick from the following characters:

Droning Druid Dan
Excited Elmo
Goodworks Greg
Never makin' it Ned
Loser Larry
Rejoicing Ralph
Booktable Bob (a genuinely true favorite)

Nursing Nancy
Amen Alice
Tiptoe Theresa
Mother Mary
Smiling Sally
Rejoicing Rachel
Lunchtime Lorraine
Headcovering Harriet

the 'A' league for groups like Calgary, Madison, Spokane, and Tuscola (under 50 members)

Here are some possibilites for the "A" league I think some of Moonflowers suggestions might work.

150 neg points for showing up Saturday night to set up chairs and saving a seat

250 neg points for letting the bread fall on to the floor and picking it back up during the doorkeepers meeting. An additional 25 points for forgetting to bring the bread to worship ;D

300 neg points if your voice travels from the backroom area to the where a brother is preaching. This had happened where a brother would be preaching and you could hear talking in the back room. The store front we met in had a divider wall in the back that didnt go all the way to the ceiling and people could be heard during the meeting. The points can be adjusted since I can only think of a couple of Illinois assemblies who did meet in a storefront and not a house  

600 neg points for childor adult spilling drink on the just purchased carpet and new chairs.

700 neg points for arriving 15 minutes before preprayer only to find the heat is off and no chairs have been set up

800 neg points for dropping the "box" down the back stairs where it shatters into a few hundred pieces and if you are the brother who comes in Sunday AM to set up and cant find the box you win a special prize since the stress of possibility being severely beaten or being blamed for the boxes disappearance might be a bit much to handle.


100 points if a visitor came to chapter summary add 50 points for everytime that same visitor came to the following weeks chapter summary

300 points for being on time and not walking in 10 minutes into worship. This took courage in the assembly I was in because if you walked in and let the glass door slam then walked in the heavy screen door could make some noise too and everyone would just be watching you walk to to the first available seat.

500 points for being in time for pre-prayer. Since some of the smaller assemblies didnt have suburbs a smaller amount of points could be warranted but some of the assemblies maybe had individuals who lived in the rural areas and had to drive a little while

700 points if a visitor came to worship and stayed for the afternoon meeting and an extra 100 points if they came to the evening cookout

850 points for being the lucky soul who is voluntered to camp out at the tent during the tent meetings because there are more nights than brothers  ;D  

1000 points for never being sick all year

Since I had only been to a handul of meetings in Tuscola, Champaign Altona, Madison etc I think these can be adjusted.

Hmmmmm.............now this could be interesting! Who was watching the watchers during their uneventful vigils??

500 points for a safe run to McD's.

250 points for listening to the Beatles on a car radio.

666 points for sneeking around to the side door and using the toilet during a meeting and/or calling girlfriend from the downstairs phone.

888 points for scaling the wall to enter the upstairs kitchen window to taste the hot food cooking in the kitchen on Sunday, or to (gasp) seek a cup of coffee from the kitchen on Sunday

555 points for going downstairs to check on someone who just went downstairs to use the bathroom to make sure they aren't picking the lock on the door of the secret area where the tapes are stored (and who knows what else) or failing to flush the toilet or using up all the toilet paper, or stealing the paper drinking cups from the bathroom.

1000 points for sneaking out the bathroom window while leaving the bathroom door locked so that the line of dancing people snakes around into the downstairs bedroom, the unfinished basement area and up the stairs to where GG is preaching.

600 points for Those on the back door and also those who stand outside in the winter when its 5 degrees and succesfully keep the stairs from Icing over. Additional points can be awarded if you have to shovel the 3 feet of snow that accumulated the night before.

800 points for the doorkeeper who sits in the back and succesfully consumes his McD's or other snack without being noticed.

999 points if you are the brother who takes the loaves and wine cup to the back after  because you do have the opportunity for a snack before the rush of small children overwhelms the leftovers. This also includes hiding the leftovers so the children scramble around looking for it only to be disappointed ;D

1 pt. for surviving a crushing embrace & sweaty kisses from Papa (GG)

1 pt. for explaining to your school-friends that the reason so many people live in your home is because they are college students "renting" rooms

1 pt. for having 6 mothers (5 sisters living in your home) in addition to your real mother

1 pt. for having to compete for your parents' attention while they busy themselves with the "work of the Lord"

1 pt. for having to lie completely still on your mat for 2 hours

1 pt. for holding your bladder for the entire duration of a 3 hour meeting because leaving the meeting would be "distracting"

1 pt. for watching a child-training meeting take place in your living room while you cower on stairs praying to God for mercy

1 pt. for choking down lentil-bean soup during a summer kids' camp--and bonus points for barfing it up 5 minutes later

1 pt. for being told you are a "rebellious" child and rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft--bonus points if you were told this more than 1x a week

1 pt. for not knowing where or why your favorite saint disappeared overnight, but believing what you were told that they "left fellowship" which of course meant that they had dropped straight into hell

1 pt. for each of several unsuccessful runaway attempts

1 pt. for crying yourself to sleep at night because you missed your dad so much--he'd been gone on the "journey" for 8 weeks

1 pt. for not missing your dad anymore because he was gone so much--bonus point for telling him so

10 pts. for surviving your assembly childhood and functioning as a responsible member of society

These are so funny there gets to be a point where they are tremendously sad.

What were we thinking?!?!

Liz, I think way more points should be given to those who survive the assembly (especially having been raised in it) and become a functioning, responsible member of socitey (though that comes with its own reward).

I agree with you Jem!

  Elizabeth's last post, though very sad, tells a whole bunch in just a few lines!

  Think of what the Assembly child's experience was when their parents were one of those who left the group years before GG was unmasked?  These were the ones that "dropped straight into hell," and the children of course were the biggest victims in this situation.

  A billion points to Elizabeth, and others like her, for being able to survive! 

  My own children, now married and with kids, still are dealing with how we raised them in the Assembly, and  also our treatment by the group when we left.

  It is my personal belief that God has a special care for these kids, as they are truly the most innocent of victims.

    I don't mean to damper the humor on this thread with my rather serious comment, but had to respond to Elizabeth's very candid post.   Please continue what has been a very fun series of posts'.

                                          God Bless,  Mark C.
   
   

Hmmm...  Suddenly I see a huge advantage to choosing your fantasy team from among the Midwest and/or Canadian brothers-- no snow & cold in So. Cali.=points lost. :o ;D

---

Seriously, though, I have to say Amen to awarding high points to the AKs. 

Our oldest daughter (almost 38) attended services with us this morning, and it was encouraging to see how much familiarity she has retained with the scriptures & hymns after distancing herself from Christ for many years.  But it was sad to observe how satisfied she seems to retain that distance, even when in the presence of the Lord's people. :'(

She and her siblings put up with a lot of heavy demands from us during our assembly years, and a lot of confusion (also from us) after we left the assembly.  We thank God that He is gracious and merciful.  All we can do for our kids right now is pray, believe, and be available.

al

Liz,
   What are you talking about “1 pt.”? ??? I think we deserve a few thousand points for having to put up with the hugs and kisses from that perv of a “Papa” (or as it was for me Papa II).


   And how many points do you get for having your whole existence blown apart by lies and cover-ups. Do I get points for my name being linked forever to this twisted Assembly crap? Oh and points for hiding under the bed and plugging my ears and not talking about what was really going on so that the “workers” could continue to get there paychecks. I think all the AKs get at least 1 point for each welp left on their butts and backs and legs after a spanking. I could go on but I think I may be bringing everyone down but like Mark said, I was moved “to respond to Elizabeth's very candid post” and I just got the urge to share.

You're not bringing anyone down, CAGirl!  :-*

Thank you for responding to my post. It was nice to see you on this board again. (((Hug)))

And don't worry, everyone I've met in my life on the "outside" cares very little about my weird, cultish past. It's what I make of my life and what I do with the life I've been given that matters, not so much where I come from.

And I guess you're right: we do deserve a lot more than 1 measly point! 10 million points for you & me!  :)

Cool!!!  Plus bonus points for running outside to check the roof for "tongues of fire!!!" ;D ;D ;D

How about this:

100 points for everytime the headsteward of the home calls you lazy and rebellious.

100 points for everytime a leading brother tells you that no man will ever marry you (because you are lazy and rebellious).

100 points for  hearing a child crying, because they were being "disciplined" by their parents.  Add another 100 points for everytime you heard the leather strap (or wooden dowel) smack against the child's behind.

100 points for each Sunday morning you got to the meeting place early to set up chairs and clean the bathrooms.

1000 points for every time you left your visiting relatives at home because you had to go to the meetings.

10,000 points for hiding in your room on Sunday mornings so that you could miss the meetings.  Add another 10,000 points for not being caught!

10,000 points for each inquiry re: where the money in the box was being spent.  !0,000 points for each time one of the leading brothers told you to mind your own business.

All:

Some more fantasies:

In the seminar:

GG:  Brethren, are you rejoicing?

(a chorus of belches resounds from the taping section)

GG:  I said, are you rejoicing?

(more belching from the section in front and some sounds of fake barfing from the man doing the video)

GG:  You all are a bunch of good heathen!  You need to repent and listen to the secrets I have from God!

M.R.S:  (standing up):  What are you talking about, you old windbag?  I've been listening to you for sixteen years now and you are making less sense than ever!!!  (fake barfing sound again)  How dare you upbraid me and all of us here for not being able to make head or tail of what in the he** you are talking about!!!!  I try to write an application for every message but I can't think of one except to pray.  I speak with the brethren about this from time to time at these seminars and am served with the answer that I need to "enter in".  Whatever!!!   (HUGE belch, accompanied by Gollum-like sounds--he was the guide to Frodo and Sam in the "Lord of the Rings, and the Ringbearer for a long, long time).........yes, precious, whatever......we doesn't like the way this man is doing us, do we, precious?  Oh, no, no we doesn't. 

GG:  (signalling to doorkeepers)  Brother, you are causing disorder in the meeting!  Sit down now or you will be escorted out!!!

M.R.S:  And you are causing our minds disorder!!!   We spend 14 hours with you over the course of a weekend, three times a year, and we let you berate us about how fleshly we are!   Why don't you let me get up and give messages as you give them, while you sit on your rear end and try to follow me?  How long would that last, and rightly so?  (begins to fend off approaching doorkeepers) 

GG:  You haven't seen what we've seen.  You are in darkness.  You will leave now.  You are fleshly.

M.R.S:  (to the crowd):  Listen up!  I will have you know what at least all of you in Fullerton know, that we pray for these seminars.  In fact one of our elders asks us to pray for greater understanding, saying that if he needs it he KNOWS we need it.  Isn't that right, Mark?  And nobody protested.  Why?  Because we were trying to be good sports about all this while admitting that the seminars were at the point of diminishing returns.  Or, to put it more bluntly, we were not getting anything out of them, and that is a shame, considering the prayer and all that we put into these times.  (to GG)  Why is that, George?  Why?  I'm not just going to sit here and pretend that everything is OK when it is not.  What was that lame-a** apology that you read earlier?  Probably well over half the people in the room were hard put to know what you were apologizing about, and you rushed through it to keep them from asking any da** questions.  Some of us had been following this on the internet, or even talking to each other and getting some idea of what was going on in this ministry, but that was some lame damage control, George.  And that bit about your handing over your duties in the work due to poor health?  (HUGE belch) Yeah, right.  And your doubt about living until the next seminar?  Dude, are you trying to save your ministry or your a**?  No doubt some of the brethren would buy that, but you are not fooling anybody that really has been with you, except for willing "amen" morons. 

GG:  I'll have you know, you're gone.  You are grieving the Holy Spirit, and speaking unwholesome words.  Go.

M.R.S:  I'll go when I'm good and ready.  (begins to cry)  I haven't wanted to leave, even now, because of my relationships here, and I knew that they would be over if I left.  (stops that) 
YOU are a blot to this ministry...........

to be continued..........

Matt (too bad I didn't actually do this at the last seminar)

 

OK, here's my fantasy meeting:

It's January, 1969.  About a dozen of us are gathered in the back room of Tom Maddux's house in Woodland Hills for Bible study and prayer.  It is the first time that Cathy and I have brought our newborn first child to a meeting, and we want to dedicate her to the Lord.  We look to George.

George looks around the group and says, "I'm sorry, brethren, but I am not fit to hold this infant up in dedication to Christ.  The Holy Spirit has convicted me of sin in my life, even as I have masqueraded before you as an example of godliness.  I have (here George confesses his sins) all the while I have been teaching you the Bible.

"Now I know that I am not worthy to lead God's people to a bus stop, much less to teach and lead you in the ways of righteousness, because I am a lustful and sinful man.  I will not come to any more of these meetings.  I am going to find a God-fearing, Bible-believing church and submit myself to the pastors there.  I have forfeited the right to teach or lead, and will seek to learn the true "spiritual application" of all my accumulated head knowledge.

"I wish you well, and urge you all to find churches to attend where good men, not like me, teach a sound gospel, punctuated by good works that display the fruit of the Spirit.  Goodbye."

---

Of course I realize that this would mean that many of you readers would never have been born, but hey!-- it's just a fantasy.

al

This is probably the most insightful thing you have ever posted on this topic.
Let us get down to brass tacks shall we?
If the Spirit of God were present (subjunctive case deliberate) in that gathering, since George did not stand up and do exactly what you outlined, someone else truly speaking for God would have.
If you understand this, then you understand the most important thing you should have learned about Geftakys and the assemblies.
No amount of alabis, excuses, and psychologising will ever change the reality of this fact.
It has ever been the way of God with men...


You do know the answer.
The point you are trying to make would have some cogency if it could be argued that there are those formerly in leadership who are still unaware of their own sin.
As a matter of conscience, as a matter of the historical record, of which this website is a part, that case cannot be made.

Which of these men, in view of what God has done, dare presume himself above abject repentance in dust and ashes?

If you have followed the events as you state, this ought to be your conclusion. They do not need further entreaty...
I do agree it is time for some of us to let it go. We have done all we humanly can. I think it is time to delete my own account and will make my final post as soon as I figure out how to save some of the more precious messages I got from some of you folk...it sure has been fun!... :)...

Verne

Verne,


It is not at all clear to me what you are saying.  Since God is omnipresent, how can one say the Holy Spirit was not present? 

Now theologians do distinguish what they call a "localized presence" of God, such as where Jacob said, "The Lord is in this place and I knew it not."  The Holy of Holies in the temple would be another place like this.  But then, each individual believer, is a temple of God, and the Holy Spirit is present in each of us.

So, exactly what are you saying?

Blessings,

Thomas Maddux

Let my try and clarify.
There are two broad camps of thinking regarding George Geftakys and the assemblies - those who believe he is a genuine believer gone bad, and those who contend that he was a devil from the beginning.
It recently dawned on me in an e-mail exchange with someone with whom I have vehemently disagreed on this topic, that it is quite O.K for Christians to differ on this, notwithstanding the kind of passion this very debate has stirred on this BB. Tom I know from many of your comments that you are in the first camp.
When I speak of the presence of the Spirit of God, I mean it in the sense of whether or not He (God's Holy Spirit) had anything to do with the establishment of George's "ministry". I suspect, based on the context of my remarks, that most readers got the point.  :)
Verne

Jesus said, " My sheep hear my voice and follow me".  I don't understand how a true child of God would follow a man like George Geftakys and not Jesus Christ. Please explain to me how this happens.

Seeker

Hi Seeker,

  I hope you don't mind me answering your question, though you addressed it to Tom.

  The verse you quote about "my sheep hear my voice and follow me" does not mean that his sheep will every instance of their lives "hear his voice and follow him."

   Jesus warns against harming these same sheep, or putting things in their path that will trip them up.  He also tells his disciples to beware of certain deceptions.  Paul tells the Galatians that they were "bewitched" into leaving the path of grace and dependance on the Holy Spirit.

    There are many more examples in the NT where we are told not to be fooled by those posing as reps. of God, but are frauds.

   No doubt, many of the members of the Assembly were truly born again and had the Spirit, but this does not guarantee that we as sheep will not stray at times.   God is faithful to come after us and attempt to bring us back.

   The mind is a crucial part of how the Spirit works in our lives as believers.  The Spirit cannot magically overwhelm our psyche, bypassing the mind, and filling us with spiritual feelings that will direct our actions.

    Assembly members believed that God spoke through GG and that his method of interpretation was especially inspired by God.  It took most of us a considerable amount of time to get us to suspect that something was wrong with this first sentence.

   It took some time, but God was there in those moments of doubt trying to get through to us.  We have thick skulls, but God is patient and knows how time, and life itself, has a way of providing an opportunity for him to enlighten us.

   Once our minds were free, and we were able to look at things free of the control that GG exerted on us, much became clear and again we were able to here the voice of God.

  GG falsely created the impression in our minds that God's voice was that of a cruel task master, vs. the loving Savior that guides us by grace.

   How did we get that idea?  Just like the Galatians did when the false teachers told them they were saved by the Gospel but now must go on to perfection via their performance.  Urging strong moral standards, as found in the law, as a means to please God cuts us off from the Spirit of God, because we are now trusting self vs. God.

   God has spoken in the person of His Son and his death for us on the cross, and this is the clearest voice from God we can hear.  It tells me that my relationship with God is based on his gift to me, not by what I can work up in myself.  Understanding it also tells me that GG was preaching a false message and did not speak for God.

     Sorry for the sermon, but it is Sunday ;)!

                                          God Bless,  Mark C.

Excellent word, Mark-- Thanks.

Let me put it in other terms:

There is a furniture store near my home where I can purchase an entire houseful of furniture today, and make no payments whatever for over one full year.

In contrast, Jesus Christ paid for our redemption in full, once for all time, but spends the rest of our natural lives winning our hearts and minds in installments.

al

Seeker----

I would add that I think the reason most of us had a feeling of apprehension in the
Assembly and that "something was wrong" was the very fact that we knew this was
not the Good Shepherd's voice. The Holy Spirit was not letting us rest in the teaching,
or in anything that was going on. He was "convicting" us, and deep inside we knew that
this was not the voice of the one we originally heard when we were saved.

In effect the Good Shepherd was calling to his true sheep who had been deceived off of
the correct path. Just as Paul was calling out(by the voice of the Good Shepherd) to the
wayward Galatians, who had accepted a like form of legalism, so the Spirit was calling out
to each of us inside also. I must say that I believe most if not all of the Assembly members
were saved though---just deceived.

Thank God he didn't let us just "settle in" and accept everything that was said without having
some conviction the whole time that something was not quite right. He truly continued to call
out our names faithfully, and continued to use his rod and his staff to lead us back to the place
he really wanted us to be.

--Joe

Thank you Joe for you sharing your perspective of things

Seeker

Please send another sermon, it makes some sense of a part of my life that was senseless.

Seeker

As I mentioned in other places, I believe that oft-quoted verse in John has less to do with Jesus whispering in our ear daily direction and more with who recognized Jesus as the Messiah.  John's gospel paints a vivid picture of those who recognized Jesus as Savior and believed in him versis those who rejected him for various reasons.  The sheep were those who believed Jesus' message.  Those who were not the sheep were the Pharisees and others in the community who left him or sought to shut him down.

Even though we believe that Jesus is the Christ doesn't mean that we don't go on to make bad decisions or find ourselves in situations where we believe wrong things.  This doesn't mean that God's hand was not on our lives.  It means that we have to look backwards to discern the hand of God and understand the lesson that He was trying to teach us.

An additional two cents worth:  Being born again is like being instantly transformed from a goat to a sheep.  You may have been a kid or an old goat, but you are reborn as a lamb.  The experience does not include an instant cure from gullibilty.

Spiritual maturity, like physical, mental or emotional maturity (and there are some overlaps) is a process.  How gradually or swiftly it may take place will vary, but if we are truly Christ's we can believe that it is proceeding because He has promised to perfect it.

Learning to observe the retrospective, as Dave suggests, is a part of that process, and a sign that it is taking place.  Over-familiarity with such Scripture verses as Romans 8:28 have caused many of us to take them for granted and not actively consider and pray for enlightenment regarding them.  Their validity is immutable (they are God's Word) whether or not we appreciate their message.  As we grow in grace through a deepening knowledge of Christ, their meanings begin to sink in.

It's only my opinion, Seeker, but I think you may have been brought to a very good place right now, despite your feelings or doubts.  But I'm just one of your siblings-- ask our Father...

al

750 points for a "suggestion" that came thru the "grapevine" that you were seen hanging around a bag of clothes that had disappeared (that had been intended to be given to someone.)

This would be hilarious ;D if it weren't so pathetic :'(.  Assembly saints were/are under such 24/7/365 scrutiny :o-- who would steal clothes they could never dare to wear??? ::)

Oh, and an extra 200 points for narrowing down the suspect list by being one of the pregnant ones (maternity clothes in the bag)

And another 100 points for living a distance from where the robbery occcurred, to justify the suspicion.

Uh-huh!! You set that whole thing up, knowing that years down the pike it would get you all these points, didn't you?!!  ;D  ;D  ;D

al ;)

Busted! And I was told that the bag contained maternity clothes, so I'm not even sure that that was the case.

Hmmm.......how about some points if a worker's wife called up your husband at his place of work? There's at least a couple of us that would win on that one.

Yeah, why not?  How about some points for bringing out a husband, who, reminding sisters of their needy sibling brother, some of whom have a "brother who looks just like him", causes a distraction by moving sisters, to "go out" to him on a regular, continual basis.

EXTRA points if he causes sisters to hang on him or stand around with their arm around him.

EXTRA points when he tells you, "what do you want me to say to her/them: Get your hands off me you *****?"

Absolutely negative points when you mention to someone that this bothers you and you are told that "you can trust us here", and "Oh, you love him, now you can honor him the way you are supposed to."   

And................??

This is really comic.  ;D

 

 >:D :( :'(

Ladies only:

100 points for everytime a leading brother (or doorkeeper) told you to go home and change your clothes, because what you were wearing could "distract" the brothers.

100 points for being signed up for babysitting duty when you never volunteered (eg-for couple's meetings, workers meetings, etc)

More Ladies Only:
100 points for having a brother jerk your songbook out of your hands during worship because you didn't notice he didn't have his and you hadn't offered to share.
10,000 points for picking up your stuff and moving once the song was over without kicking him in the shin first.
(Fullerton Seminar, 1978)

That last one should be worth more points maybe 100,000 and additional points if you go to the back table and borrow one and throw it at him err I mean trade politely with hm.


Has anyone awarded points for a sister going to the seat she wants instead of the one the brother points too  :D

Brother jerk-- I like that.  "Jerk" is a noun as well as a verb!

al ;)