AssemblyBoard

OK, first a disclaimer. I have read the endless discussions about this and have absolutely no desire to start yet another debate by the Big Three, so Puuulease let's not do that. It's one reason why so few post anymore. As I type I can already hear one of the three saying, "You see, this is deeper life doctrine and it all started with the PB's and George just leached their stuff, blah, blah, blah..." I am well versed in doctrine. But since leaving the assembly what I have been attracted to is life. Lived doctrine. This kind of thing doesn't happen every day--and I don't ask God what kind of toothpaste I should buy so let's not get ridiculous--but it has happened enough that it is hard to ignore.

So hear's the thing, Wednesday morning I woke up and immediately was thinking about my friend I'll call J. She was in my prayers as I started my time with the Lord (yes, I still have them). Thoughts about her were quite distracting. I read the next Psalm that I was in, 77, and thought this is the voice of depression. The Psalmist on a downer. And I thought of J because she is going through counseling(with a very Biblically based counselor) and dealing with childhood abuse that led to very adult sin. I tried to pass off my connecting that scripture to J as just being obvious that she could learn much from the Psalm. "Has the Lord forgotten to be gracious?" etc. But all day long the "little voice" kept reminding me of J and of Psalm 77 in an almost annoying way. I tried to call J all day, but didn't get her. About noon these thoughts became very intense so I went in my room and prayed through Psalm 77, praying for J. The rest of the afternoon I thought of her, but my thoughts turned--as the Psalm does--from petition to worship.

Thursday I hardly thought of J at all. Friday I took a long walk with her. When I do this I mostly just listen to her because of the intense counseling she is going through. I'm sort of a designated outlet (Confess your faults one to another that you may be healed). Anyway, about half way through the walk she said she'd had a very bad day on Wednesday, very depressed. The morning was very difficult, but about noon she read...you guessed it...Psalm 77 and said the afternoon she spent worshipping and recounting all the Lord had done for her.

So I guess the question is do you think that was the Holy Spirit or am I still just under the deception of the assembly deeper life thing? Was it just a really amazing coincidence? And the reason I ask is because I used to use the Word to justify why we did what we did in the assembly, but "the voice" was constantly there and I ignored it/Him, resisted it?Him. When we left the asssembly it was my disobedience to that voice, and obviously what it said through the Word, that I felt was the greatest of my sins needing to be repented of. But if the "still small voice" doesn't really exist (it does make me sound a bit mental doesn't it?), well, that's my question.

IMO it's the Holy Spirit. It's happened to me, too, with those I'm close to.

Jem,

I don't pray about which toothpaste to buy either, but I do pause (when I think about it) to thank God for toothpaste, along with the myriad other blessings I take for granted.

I have been learning to accept such incidents as you describe for the blessing that they are, without falling into the trap of depending upon them.  Christ made it clear that He, as our great Shepherd, will lead us, His sheep, without specifying how He would do so.  The one sure thing is that the voice of God (in whatever manner we may "hear" it) will never violate the Word of God.  So if the voice I hear tells me to rob a convenience store, blow up a shopping mall, or collect porn, I tend to be skeptical (to put it mildly!).  But when I have experiences such as you tell of, I give the glory to God with thanks and move on.

A couple days ago I received the following in an e-mail.  I offer it here with the writer's permission as a testimony to "living our doctrine," as you so aptly put it:


Blessings to all who read here,
al

Hi Jem!  :) (just had to use a few of these cool Santas  8))

   I don't think that I'm one of the "Big three," and as such hope that my opinions are not too offensive ;).

   I can't imagine anyone interpreting your experience from the other day as being anything but God's miraculous intervention in your life.

  Why do you even question this experience as possibly being a throwback to "Assembly deeper life teaching?"

   "Deeper life", according to the NT, has to do with the kind of loving behavior that filled you with concern for "J." 

   If this is being "mental" then I think I would like to have more of that kind of "problem" in my own life!

  It's true that hearing "voices" can be a sign of a psyche out- of-whack, but I don't think Assembly folks were having those kind of problems.

  I know you don't want to revive a debate (and I don't wish to either) but, how I "hear" the Bible now, vs. while in the group, has made a huge difference in my life.

   If I were to expect that everyday what I read in my AM devotion must involve an experience such as you had it probably would come closer to what we were taught in the Assembly re. "hearing God's voice."  Or, that one must have some kind of devotional to "trigger" God's speaking/moving.

   Toward the middle of PS. 77 the Psalmist decides on a course inspite of the fact that his experience is suggesting that God has abandoned him----  not only did he feel like God was not speaking to him he also thought that God was not hearing him in the first 9 verses!

 vs.10---"then I thought----" I will remember---- I will meditate, consider, etc.."

   God never did, in this Psalm, interrupt the Psalmist's devotion by granting an experience of assurance (a voice, etc.), rather this writer chose to encourage himself in the facts of what he  already knew to be true about God--- which can more easily be described as just simple faith. 

   Is this the kind of "practical" response that is more appropriate in the guidance of our lives?  An expectation of God working his "great acts", because we know that this is the kind of God whom we serve.

   This is what "doctrine" should provide for our lives, a way out from the isolation from God we sometimes feel, because we know that in fact God is involved in our lives, those around us, and the world at large.

    Thanks very much for sharing this personal story and I will be praying for "J".

                                        God Bless,  Mark C. 

       

   

   

Jem,

As our pastor has preached through 1 Corinthians 11-14 using a very honest expository method, I heard two clear challenges that I have taken to heart.  One is that I cannot discount the reality that God works and speaks in a way that may bypass my intellect just because there is much abuse in this area.  After all, even though there is counterfit money, I still believe in money.  Similarly, God may give a strong impression upon one's emotions or work in some way that is mystical, supernatural, or miraculous even though there is lots of nonsence carried out in the name of "God speaking to me" or "God is doing thus and thus".

The second challenge is this:  How does one know if God has truly spoken to or through them?  The answer is just what you did.  One goes to his brothers and sisters in the church and says, "I believe God has spoken to me thus and thus, what do you think" and the rest discern  (1 Corinthians 14:29).  Those who gravitate towards the supernatural because they use this kind of "God talk" to obtain a power status in the church or to get attention or because they want to manipulate others chaff at the idea of their prophecies being judged by others.  Those who have truly been spoken to by God realize that if God has indeed spoken, God will lay it upon the heart of other Christians as well and is not concerned about the scruteny.

I think the way you approached this is commendable.  You didn't come and say, "you need to accept what I said because God spoke to me."  I think it is commendable when someone says, "I think God may have spoken through me, what do you think?"

I think the coincidence could very well have been God putting upon both your hearts the same passage.

As for your dislike for things being assiociated with the Higher Life and Plymouth Brethren, etc.  This critisicm is not for this type of situation where someone is looking at their circumstances and pondering if the hand of God might be in it. The criticism of Higher Life is taking exception to a system where it is presumed that everyone has (or at least ought to have if they get with the program) the same spiritual experiences.  It is assumed that by a set of key principles that one can live victorious above the plane of other believers.   Since the pressure to conform to fellow spiritual heavy-weights is large, honest folks don't want to admit that inside they don't feel the spiritual victory that they talk about.  As a result, they either deny their feelings and put up a front that everything is OK or they struggle with intense feelings of guilt, unworthiness and failure.  Frankly, it is a distructive system and is worthy of criticism.

So, be open to the possibility that God may work supernaturally in your life.  At the same time, be careful and accountable lest you end up with something that is not unlike the Higher Life movement.

-Dave

Re. the Big Three, I've figured out 1 and 2.  Who is #3?? :-\

Marcia

Hey!!

Are you talking to me?!!

Are you talking to me?!!

Are you talking to....?!!!...oops! there I go acting like one of the Big Three again... ;D

But seriously, everytime somebody gets on the BB and start talking about how nobody posts because of what somebody else is or what somebody else does I don't take them too seriously as they clearly have other issues they are dealing with.
A forum like this is a great opporunity to learn what you are really made of:

How do you handle being misunderstood?
How do you handle being misrepresented?
How do you handle being wrong?
How do you handle being right?

I for one am grateful for the opporunity I had to learn a few things about myself.
Can you think of a better forum in which to learn how to display Christain grace?
Some have squandered an opporunity in IMHO.
Brian Tucker has run one of the most generous, tolerant, and generally open BBs anywhere on the web. Go check out a few.
I'll be gone in a few weeks. I hope some of you chronic shrinking violets step up to the plate and say what's on your mind as there will be one fewer of the Big Three  ::)   stopping you... :)

Verne

p.s. I don't know 'bout the rest of you but I for one really miss Brent's perspective...

Jem,

Thank you for this thoughtful and uplifting post. I enjoyed it, truly.

It seems clear that God confirmed your experience of the "still, small voice" through the story your friend told you about what was happening in her life that very day. It was a beautiful example of God's grace in you and I hope you don't doubt it, ever!

I, too, have had similar experiences and those "coincidences" are some of my most cherished tokens of God's love toward me.

Thank you for bravely sharing this.

 :)

E.

But, isn't the real question, "Whooooooo is number 1?"

 :o

On the still small voice Tom has generally been the one advising caution.
Although he does this in a way that soemtimes appears dismissive, the man has a valid point and especially to us who came out of Geftakysm.
Most Christians can report some experience in which they felt God worked in their lives in an unusual way.
I think, and I don't want to speak for Tom, the point he was trying to make was that just because it was a genunine experience, does not make it any less subjective.
Here is what I think is a reasonable position with which I think Tom will agree.
While I may be prepared to accept someone's subjective experience as genuine, when it comes to one's actually making decisions, it ought to rely, so far as is possible, on objective truth.
You know the kind of people that come up to you with that look, and preface the advice they are about to give with: "The Lord spoke to my heart..." ?!
This is the kind of lunacy Tom I believe is objecting to and which was rampant in assembly-think and assembly-speak. The man is right. Just my two pennies.
Verne

I did not want to comment on Jem's post in case I was #3; hence my question.
Maybe I have to be part of the inner circle to get an answer to it eh??

Marcia

Didn't mean to cause a stir with "the Big Three" comment. Didn't want to offend anyone so I was speaking in general terms.

Marcia, no you are not one of them (sorry if you wanted to be  ;)

And Verne, for me and a couple others I know it is not so much that we are afraid of being misunderstood, misrepresented or just plain wrong when the fighting starts (I have four teenagers, that is my world); it is more the tedium that is unattractive. It is almost amusing to go back and see what the original thread was about and what it ultimately became. And that is not to say that it was never interesting, but after awhile it all becomes the same. This happens quite often in blogdom, I know. On one blog I read there is a pack of Chrisitans whose answer to the war in Iraq, global warming and UN ineffectiveness is homeschooling. Everything always boils down to homeschooling with the same tired arguments so many people give up the blog due to a lack of real conversation and insight.

I know this has become a sidetrack from the original point of this thread, but since you have received a response to that already I will proceed with this sidetrack. :-[

IMO general terms offends more folk because it is not clear, especially if you mention a Big Three and no one really is sure if they are one of the 3 you are talking to.  I figured 1 & 2 to be Tom and Verne, but who is #3? ???

Marcia


We figured that out, ie about Tom's opinion.  It just would have been nice to discuss the other side of the coin without Tom deleting posts and railroading the discussion.

Marcia

Yes, Tom and Verne were one and two. The other one I was thinking of was Sondra though she seems to have dropped off lately.

since we're sidetracking... :P

is the problem really The Big Three (Tom, Verne, Al or Dave)? I'm not convinced.

if there were more of the 550+ members posting, there would be diversity of thought. but most seem to have either moved on or, like Jem points out, gotten bored by the tedium.

i don't think things will change until more members post. is that likely? hard to say. but i don't think the problem is that Tom, Verne, Al & Dave post. The problem is that so few others do.

E.

oh yeah. i forgot about sondra.  ::)

she hasn't weighed in since around thanksgiving. but i'm sure eventually something else will interest her (or irritate her) and she'll re-appear with lots of verses in tow.  ;)

Uh-huh...  Versus verses ;D

I, for one, try to start new posts and conversations.  But they all get buried in the mega long debates.  I always just click on the "10 most recent" button and you know what you find there.  So it is hard to maintain other threads that I think newcomers would enjoy.  It's hard for them to find them.  I guess we could just keep bumping to see if there is interest.  I truly think that most people have lost interest in assembly stuff though.  I told my spouse last night that I no longer care what George, Jim McA, Scott, Mike A. and company are up to.  What a blessed relief!  I never thought I would get to that point.
me

I was hoping Sondra would weigh in on the divorce and remarriege discussion. She goes deep into subjects and posts verses to back her opinion. Though I don't agree with most of what she has written, I can appreciate her point of veiw. I like to look at things from different perspectives.

Different perspectives are interesting so long as they don't become long-winded & overly preachy.

Just me---

There are many threads where you could keep a regular conversation going. I've noticed,
and I've been involved in them, that the long-winded debates usually start when someone
asks an obscure question about doctrine. But I've seen several other threads flourish with
humor, talks about singing groups or even pets. I think it all depends on what the subject
matter is. If someone enters and begins a thread, or enters a thread asking "So what do you
think of overcomer theology, etc" and recommends a book, you can be sure that some will
want to praise the book, but others will want to rebutt what it says.

I try not to get involved much in theological debates, but this last one hit a chord, and it was
very hard not to contribute, and to try to rebutt some of the stuff being said. But I've seen and
been involved with several threads that were very fun, and far from theological in nature.

--Joe

Jem,

You wrote:

It seems to me that there is a better question to ask.  You present two possibilities.  Either the experience was a coincidince or the "assembly deeper life thing."  I think it would be wise to consider other possibilities as well.

It is undeniable that people have experiences like the one you describe.  I know I have. There are other possible explanations though.  One is that different parts of the experience could have different causes. My best guess is that both of you reading the same Psalm is probably a conincidence.  Think about it. 

There are only 150 Psalms.  Many of us frequently read two or three at a time.  It is therefore highly likely that you and "J", and I as well, have all read the same psalm on the same day.  That part is quite likely to be a conicidence.

As to "J" comng to your mind.  She is a friend of yours, right?  You know she has some pretty serious problems as well.  Are you concerned about her?  If so, it is quite likely that you would think of her quite apart from any "inspiration."  I know that I think of, and pray for, friends who are hurting.

In other words, It is possible that the "still small voice" came from you!  We have a very active part of our mind, called the unconscious or subconscious by some, that is always at work.  Frequently, thoughts emerge unbidden.  Ever lose your car keys, wallet, or glasses...then later you suddenly remember where you left them?  Although your conscious attention becomes distracted by other important things that demand your attention, work and such, you keep working on the problem at a deeper level.  When you figure out the answer, it surfaces.

Try this.  Get up right now, get a piece of paper, and leave the room where your computer is. Then draw a diagram of your computer keyboard.  I'll bet you can't do it.  I certainly can't.  I could figure out the letters by "typing in the air", and some other things like periods and question marks, but not all of it.  But I can sit down and type at 60-80 WPM if I don't try to think about what I am doing.  My subconscious mind knows exactly where to type, but consciously, I can't visualize it at all.

Ever drive somewhere and realize you haven't been thinking about driving at all?  Scary, but did you run into anything?  Not usually anyway.

One of the insights I had that freed me from my belief in the "Biblical Pattern of Worship" came to me this way.  I had been lyiing on my bed, depressed and exhausted.  I got up to "use the restroom".  As I left the bathroom, just after I stepped through the door, the words, "the Lord's Supper" surfaced in my mind.  I got back on the bed, opened my bible, and read all the passages about the Lord's Supper in the NT.  I suddenly saw that what happened "on the first day of the week" was not what we were doing in the assembly at all!  :o The whole thing was an artificial construction, a "pattern" that was not actually described in the Bible!

Now, was that the Holy Spirit?  I don't know of any scripture that says "If a thought occurrs to you it is the voice of the Holy Spirit."  Could it have been?  Perhaps.  But that is as far as the evidence will take me. 

I could describe the experinece and say, "God spoke to me that night, and I was delivered."  But what really happened was that I thought about something.  Something I had been reading about for years, and had been thinking about recently.  It was more of a hunch than a message, and it did not contain information I did not already have.  If I suddenly had the thought, "Buy a lotto ticked with the numbers 44 33 22 11 99...and then I won 20 million or so....I would be reasonably certain of a supernatural source.  Which supernatural source is another question though.

Anyway, regardng your question: 1. I don't know of any biblical passage that teaches that this sort of thing is always the "voice of God".  2. We should consider all posibilities before we build a theological system on our experiences.

Blessings,

Evil Tom

While I have no disagreement with the above quote, there are a couple of points to which special attention should be given:

1. A key word is "always."  There is no Biblical reason to think that such experiences as Jem's are always, nor that they are never the leading of God.  Jesus' words to His disciples make clear that the Holy Spirit would lead them (Jn.16:7,13).  And the Acts and epistles offer many instances of the leading of the Holy Spirit, most if not all of which could easily be imagined to have been fantastic experiences OR simply attributable to normal everyday faculties such as Tom's post describes.  In other words, Paul, Peter and others may have simply acted upon their thoughts and attributed to God the production and precise timing of those thoughts.  Is there any reason that the Lord of creation, of heaven and earth, should not be credited with the functioning of minds and hearts devoted to Him?

2. Honoring God as the Producer of the fruit of our lives need not, and must not, constitute the "building of a theological system" based upon our experiences.  If we are to believe the Word of God, if we mean to take Him at His Word, then our experiences can be the basis of nothing, for all of our living must be founded upon what God has declared and promised.  This in no way prevents or limits our testifying to His authorship of the Christ-honoring longings of our hearts, mental conclusions and decisions that we reach, and our resultant actions.

As in all things, caution is advisable.  But caution carried to the extreme may be as great folly as extreme liberality.  We must learn to trust in God...

al

Exactly! Al has put his finger squarely on what I think is the central point.
As one who is convinced that God has many times used Scripture to speak powerfully into a space-time situation concerning me (as has countless believers), I used to feel a sense or real frustration over Tom's position on this.
However, when you consider what he says in the context of our former assembly teaching and practice, his caveat is well-placed in my opinion.
Verne

Maybe there is something to the saying "behind every great man stands a great woman" eh??  In terms of the assembly, "greatness" is having achieved some sort of status, leadership, great support of leadership, bringing ministry, being exercised ....  Ever consider how many of the wives are right with their husbands supporting them and encouraging them to achieve this status.

Liz et al, IMO the touchy sensitive individual will be offended by Verne's comments.  Possibly many of us do not know the real meaning of love and friendship.  At the risk of reviving (which I do not want to do) a discussion we've already had on this BB I will post these quotes:

PRO 5:3 For the lips of an adulteress drip honey, And smoother than oil is her speech;
PRO 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But deceitful are the kisses of an enemy.
PRO 17:17 A friend loves at all times, And a brother is born for adversity.

Marcia


Except, how can one be so unsure if it is the Holy Spirit leading and then be so sure that it is 'another' spirit leading...

Marcia

Al,

Your post reminded me of a Sunday school where we were discussing healing.  A physician stood up and said, "all healing is from God".  What he meant was that even though doctors and medicine are used as tools, we can trace the source of healing back to the Creator.  In this, a distinction may be made between general healing (I take an antibiotic and it works with my immune system to kill the virus in my system) and specific healing (My cancer disappears with no human intervention).  Ultimately, both are traced back to God being the source.

Similarly, we give thanks for our food.  Some food may have been the result of an industrious farmer who planted the food and a supply chain that brought it to market.  Other may have appeared from a gift that an angel left on our doorstep.  Still, we give thanks to God the Provider in both cases.

So also with the still small voice.  Whether it is general leading by the God of Providence who uses circumstances and subconscious to teach His children or whether God specifically bent down and whispered something in our ear might be a matter of debate.  But, I don't think it would be a profitable one as ultimately we can attribute trace both cases back to a personal God who benevolently oversees His creation.

This is a very good question. None of us are beyond being deceived.
Clearly, discernment has a lot to do with maturity, and I think as we walk with the Lord we do become more sensitive to His leading in our lives.
One good way of answering your question is to compare how you think you are bing led, to what God says in His Word (the key thing that I think Tom wants to keep front and center).
Having determined that it is Scriptural, the determining factor in my mind would be what kind of fruit is produced.
These are the two measures that I have found helpful in this regard.
Verne

Marcia,
I will respond to your post in the "Wounded Pilgrims" thread.
E.

Tom,

Or maybe that should be #1 of the big three  ;) That little comment certainly ran amok didn't it?

As to your options to the Psalm 77 thing, I was quite stunned by it. Not because it was unreasonable or illogical, but that it was almost exactly how my father would have explained it away. Isn't that a coincidence? He was an atheist. There is no supernatural. There is no relationship with a personal God. There is only me and the decisions I make based on reason or that damnable flaw in man "subjectivity." Because I am my father's daughter in many ways I am not highly emotive nor have I made a "theological system" based on my experiences. But there are uncommon moments that I always thought were the Holy Spirit. You know, very rare 'gnosko' moments (I know I'm misspelling that if I even have the right word. I can't find my Greek dictionary at the moment. But it's the word 'to know' in the NT that means the experiential knowledge of God). Guess I should have listened to my daddy. You should see how he exlpained away answers to prayer.

Jem, I'm going out on a limb here to say that I don't believe Tom is "explaining away" either your experience OR your ideas about it.  I know how his post sounds-- it sounds that way to me, too.  But I have known the man for nearly forty years, and I think I understand what he means.  (This is where all the unhappy campers place me in Tom's "camp.")  The fact is that while I don't agree with the extent of Tom's cautioning, I still think that's what it is-- a warning against unwarranted interpretation of experience.

In beginning this thread, you asked:


Tom could have answered with an unqualified, "No, it was not the Holy Spirit and, yes, it was an amazing coincidence."  But he did not say that, nor did he claim to think that.  He did not even state that he believes your view to be unwarranted.  Rather, he has cautioned all of us to avoid allowing our views to become extra-scriptural.  As a fellow veteran of having witnessed many doctrinal errors and experiential abuses, both pre- & a-geftakysism, he has set forth a warning against extremism in a particular direction and, in so doing, has perhaps been somewhat extreme in another (or at least some are interpreting him as being so).

Here is some of what Tom said (with my emphases added to parts):


While some would no doubt love to say Tom is laying down inviolable law, he has actually simply stated his opinion. 

As for coincidence, I am guilty of having said that there are no coincidences, but I was wrong because of my definition of the term at the time.  The word coincidence has become commonly accepted to mean something accidental and unrelated.  But the more basic meaning of coincidence is simply that two or more events coincide, that is they take place at the same time or they apply to the same situation, whether by accident OR by design.  So coincidence certainly may be the direct work of God.


We see Tom's "non-inspirational" leaning here, but he has not said that any or all of the above cannot be attributed to God, Who created our minds, conscious and subconscious, and Who is renewing them through our increasing knowledge of Jesus Christ.


And finally, neither does Tom claim to know of any scripture which states that our thoughts cannot be inspired by the Holy Spirit, but he admits that his experience, and therefore yours, "could have been" the Holy Spirit's working.  "Perhaps."  His warning is not for us to fear that God may work in our lives, but that we should beware of excesses in our attributions.

As I said in a previous post, let us give God the glory and move on to the next event...

Tom, please forgive and correct me if I have misinterpreted or misrepresented you.

al

“To the one who has, more shall be given.”   I wonder if we might paraphrase this scripture to support the thought:  “To the one who obeyed the Lord the last times the Lord spoke, the Lord will speak more often.”  Certainly John 14:21 speaks of the Lord manifesting himself [appearing/speaking] to those who love the Lord and keep his words.  For several years now I have been reading about the ministry of some missionaries to Mozambique by the names of Rolland and Heidi Baker.  The Lord speaks often to them, and they have been obedient to an impressive degree.  Some have called Heidi the “Mother Teresa of the Protestant world.”  Compassion pours out of this woman.  I think this is one of the reasons that many miracles have occurred through her hands.  Some of the young men that she and her husband Rolland have discipled have been used of the Lord to raise people from the dead (over 53 since about 1997).  Below I have pasted a piece of Roland’s report from September 8, 2005.

     “Some who hear us in conferences may come away with the impression that we lead a charmed, tribulation-free life of endless miracles! We do prefer to give Jesus and His glorious power most of the attention in our ministry, but it many encourage you to know that, like Paul, we are jars of clay who glory also in our weakness. When we are weak, then we are strong (2 Cor. 12:10). We do encounter fierce, demonic opposition, and its intensity is almost incomprehensible. This Mozambican province where we live has been a pagan, occultic stronghold for centuries, and the evil we encounter shocks us over and over. Our time, energy, funds, and resources are viciously attacked and drained as the devil aims to turn our hearts away from this great revival in which God has graciously placed us.
     “Together with Paul, we understand that these things happen that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead (2 Cor. 1:9). We resist the devil by overcoming evil with good, and by resting in Him with all the more faith and childlike joy. We cannot lose while secure in His heart. We have no need to shield ourselves, but we entrust our souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right (1 Peter 4:19). The God who has raised at least 53 people from the dead among our churches in Africa will also renew and refresh us with His incomparable power. He will not fail us; we are His workmanship!”

I encourage you to read more regarding the ministry of this precious couple at their web site:

http://www.irismin.org/news/31.php