- Needed Prayer!

There are those of you who know me and know what I'm going through, so please bear with me. I'm going through a very nasty divorce, and have been since the first of the year. I have three sons: Joel, 8; Jordan, 5; and Jacob, 3. We just (Finally!) got the full custody evaluation back about a week or so ago, and the report recommends that I have primary legal and residential custody of the boys, with their mom getting visitation. Please pray that I'm granted Sole Custody, for the strength to continue to stand up against the abuse and so forth, the wisdom to know how to proceed in the final stages of this terrible thing I go through. Please pray! There is so much more I need prayer for, but suffice it to say that prayer for the judge and the lawyers to decide what's right for my boys. The evil one (sorry to use assembly verbage, but you sometimes don't know how true that word picture is) is really hounding around this, and I've learned that he has no right, no authority, no place in my family, in anything. But, sometimes, my confidence, my self-esteem, slips back to what it was and I have self doubt. I've come so far in gaining the confidence and self-esteem back. PLEASE PRAY! and I thank you for your support! ;D

I married late in life and it is clear to me it was nothing short of the mercy of God. I know so many people my age (including relatives) who have been married and divorced multiple times. God knew I was not ready and kept me from making a mess of my life.
While I did not cite the statistic to in any way discourage anyone Robb, it is certainly a startling one is it not?
It did not always used to be this way so clearly some things have changed in the ways Christians choose their mates and conduct their marriages.
God will honor your committment to those precious children - they are indeed the priority.
I used to think that if only one of the partners in a marriage did God's will, God would always save the marriage. I have now learned enough and seen enough examples to know this to be a false presumption.
Sadly, the way in which He ultimately accomplishes his purpose in the lives of His own, is via this tragic, rendering and impoverishing fragmentation of the institution He Himself created, and whose dissolution He states that he hates...
I am praying that He causes it to work for good, as He has promised.
Verne

Hi Robb!

I'm sorry to hear of the difficulties you are going through and I most certainly will be praying for you.

I have never been in the situation you find yourself, but I can imagine (and from what you wrote) that you are feeling very stressed out. A lot of that stress may be misplaced in the form of wondering what you may have done wrong (as in: marrying too early, mistakes you made in the relationship, etc.).

How we as Christians deal with failure in marriage (especially from our Assembly background where failure is not allowed) is more important than the actual statistics involved. Marriage takes two and we can't crawl into the heart of the other and make decisions for them--- no matter how hard we try to make the relationship work.

As an example: Is Betty a better Christian for staying married to a philandering and unrepentant GG?

But, back to the statistics that Verne mentioned: I still say it is more important what the response of a believer is when it is obvious that the other member of the relationship is not interested in doing their part (or as in your case, a detriment to healthy family life). Divorce, though causing pain, sometimes is the only good choice.

You display in your posts what the statistics do not show:

1.) You are looking to God for help.

2.) Your concern is for your children.

3.) Your hope is for the defeat of evil and the triumph of good.

So, even though Christians may have the same percentages in regard to divorce as the unsaved you can bet the character responses to that fact are not going to be the same.

I say all this because I don't think that you should feel guilty for being less of a Christian than you should be, for failures in relationships are inescapable as we have the same human weaknesses that the World in general contends with.

The only way to truly avoid all failure is to never take any risks--- and let's face it, marriage and family have a ton of risk! I'm not saying that waiting to get married is necessarily a bad idea, or that even not getting married at all is, but too much caution in trying to avoid risk can make one's life pretty bland.

Hindsight is always 20-20, but I think that God allows us to try to make our way through life and make our mistakes. He is always there to help us when we fail (which we most certainly will at some point).

You have shown good character in your response to a very difficult situation and can take solace in the fact that God, while not creating the problem, can bring blessing out of it.

BTW, you need not apologize for using "Assembly-speak", as long before GG twisted some of these truths there was a proper and good use for these words/phrases. Just consider that you have wrested them from the wrong context and are now using them as God intended!

God Bless, Mark C.

: Mark C. October 08, 2006, 12:25:34 AM

So, even though Christians may have the same percentages in regard to divorce as the unsaved you can bet the character responses to that fact are not going to be the same.

I sincerely hope you are right about this Mark.
I would argue that Robb's response is atypical, much to his credit.
Sadly, I suspect the fact that so many Christians find themselves indistinguishable from the rest of the unbelieving world in this regard has more to do with attitudes prior to the dissolution of this sacred institution marriage and not so much after.
Divorce used to be viewed as a terrible and tragic failure among believers.
Its frequency now among so many believers reflects a substantial change in that point of view, and I would dare say evinces a somehat cavalier attitude more typical of the unsaved.
I am watching a case in a fellowship of friends in which a couple with three children and recently divorced a few short weeks, are now busily engaged in the pursuit of other relationships, while remaining in fellowship at the same church.
The lady has been coming to services with her new love interest.
My heart goes out to the elders in that kind of situation. What a heartbreak to observe something like that going on while there are precious children involved.
I watched in dismay as my own brother failed to make any effort whatsoever to secure custody of his teen-aged boys when his wife walked out of the house.
Even after the cops had to be called to the wife's new residence because of an altercation in the street (over curfew) between her and the youngest son, seventeen at the time.
They were both professing Christians.

I say all this because I don't think that you should feel guilty for being less of a Christian than you should be, for failures in relationships are inescapable as we have the same human weaknesses that the World in general contends with.

The only way to truly avoid all failure is to never take any risks--- and let's face it, marriage and family have a ton of risk! I'm not saying that waiting to get married is necessarily a bad idea, or that even not getting married at all is, but too much caution in trying to avoid risk can make one's life pretty bland.

Hindsight is always 20-20, but I think that God allows us to try to make our way through life and make our mistakes. He is always there to help us when we fail (which we most certainly will at some point).

You have shown good character in your response to a very difficult situation and can take solace in the fact that God, while not creating the problem, can bring blessing out of it.

I have to say a hearty amen to this.
All in all, I think the really critical matter is the original choice we make.
The greatest antidote to divorce is a conviction in the minds of both individuals that God intended them for each other.

Verne

: vernecarty October 09, 2006, 07:28:51 AM

I watched in dismay as my own brother failed to make any effort whatsoever to secure custody of his teen-aged boys when his wife walked out of the house.
Even after the cops had to be called to the wife's new residence because of an altercation in the street (over curfew) between her and the youngest son, seventeen at the time.

Verne, an altercation in the street between a mother and son regarding curfew is hardly cause for the other spouse to seek custody. The legal "tug of war" with kids in the middle could cause more grief for the children and more stress on the parents than just leaving them with the mother, unless the children are being physically abused. The boys are teens. Maybe they could be given a choice to live with their Dad, if they think it would help. My guess is that they are acting out the problems resulting from their parents divorce, and would have the same problems if they lived with Dad.

All in all, I think the really critical matter is the original choice we make.
The greatest antidote to divorce is a conviction in the minds of both individuals that God intended them for each other.

Going beyond the conviction that God intended two individuals to be together, each individual has to realize that the issue is what we do in each situation that we are in, regardless of who we marry. I've heard a lot of "the Good Lord surely wouldn't want me married to....." and off they go to the courts. There are plenty of people who thought God wanted them together, but don't want to do it anymore and off they go.....

: moonflower October 10, 2006, 05:43:05 AM

Verne, an altercation in the street between a mother and son regarding curfew is hardly cause for the other spouse to seek custody.

If only that were the only issue.
That incident was the tip of iceberg so to speak, but of course you do lack details.
That entire basis of my comment in this regard had to do with the best interests of the children concerned, and clearly in some cases they are better off with the Mother.
Knowing what he did about his ex-wife, I remain amazed that my brother made no effort to secure custody of his boys. He is now remarried so I guess a new wife was his priority.

While you would not know this moonflower, my viewpoint on this is heavily influenced by the work of psychologist Spencer Holland, on the plight of young black men in this country, owing to a lack of adult male role models in their lives...
Until that cycle is broken, along with the seventy percent unwed birth-rate, they will continue to be the majority population in this country's prisons.

The legal "tug of war" with kids in the middle could cause more grief for the children and more stress on the parents than just leaving them with the mother, unless the children are being physically abused. The boys are teens. Maybe they could be given a choice to live with their Dad, if they think it would help.

His wife made more than he did and his lawyer advised him that he could easily get both custody and alimony under the circumstances. He choose, for whatever reason, not to have them live with him. Perhaps he deferred to their wishes, a mistake in my view.

My guess is that they are acting out the problems resulting from their parents divorce, and would have the same problems if they lived with Dad.

The research shows clearly that young black men suffer far more from the absence of a father's influence...

While I see your point here, the fact is that once in the situation, we clearly have no control over what the other person does.
I would be very interested in finding out how many people who get divorced, would contend that God wanted them to be together.
I am not talking about the kind of idle drivel you hear from some folk, employing spiritual language to justify disobedience to the clear teaching of Scripture (for example marrying an unbeliever).
J Vernons McGee used to contend that what we have is not so much a divorce problem, as it is a marriage problem.
I think he was on to something... :)
Verne

Verne,

You said:

While you would not know this moonflower, my viewpoint on this is heavily influenced by the work of psychologist Spencer Holland, on the plight of young black men in this country, owing to a lack of adult male role models in their lives...
Until that cycle is broken, along with the seventy percent unwed birth-rate, they will continue to be the majority population in this country's prisons.

After 33 years of teaching, much of it in the inner city of LA, I would say that Spencer Holland is quite correct. :'(

8th grade seems to be the point of infrequent return. The boys realize that their mother cannot physically control them, and the peer society becomes their source of aculturization. The schools are hideously guilty as well. They allow these boys to learn that rebellion has no consequences worth caring about. Then the juvenile justice system reinforces this illusion. Then they go too far and find out that the California Youth Authority are excellent schools for criminals. Then they graduate from the CYA and enter the "big time".

:'(

I do not personally hold the view that God has a particular wife/husband for every individual. I believe that there are many women that I could have had a good marriage with. (Probably a much smaller number that could have stayed married to me.) ;)

What I do believe is that as a Christian I must obey God, and if both partners hold that belief we will have a very successful marriage.

Blessings,

Thomas Maddux

: Tom Maddux October 10, 2006, 11:17:22 PM

Verne,

You said:

After 33 years of teaching, much of it in the inner city of LA, I would say that Spencer Holland is quite correct. :'(

8th grade seems to be the point of infrequent return. The boys realize that their mother cannot physically control them, and the peer society becomes their source of aculturization. The schools are hideously guilty as well. They allow these boys to learn that rebellion has no consequences worth caring about. Then the juvenile justice system reinforces this illusion. Then they go too far and find out that the California Youth Authority are excellent schools for criminals. Then they graduate from the CYA and enter the "big time".

:'(

One of the little known facts that Holland's research uncovered was that until these boys began to be aware of their matriarchial world (he said around third to fourth grade) - mostly female teachers at work, only a mom or grand-mother at home etc., their academic performance is virtually indistinguishable from their peers.
He surmised much of the tendency to agression and violence is an over-reaction in an attempt to compensate for absence of a male authority figure or influence.
Thanks Tom for your input. I realise without a little bit of backgroun how my comment could have been misunderstood.
No man in his right mind (particularly Black men) would not fight tooth and nail to maintain as much influence as possible in the lives of his own sons - unless he were woefully ignorant or uncaring of the very high stakes...

I do not personally hold the view that God has a particular wife/husband for every individual.

I used to believe this...until I met Montse! ;D

I believe that there are many women that I could have had a good marriage with. (Probably a much smaller number that could have stayed married to me.) ;)

What I do believe is that as a Christian I must obey God, and if both partners hold that belief we will have a very successful marriage.

Blessings,

Thomas Maddux

But seriously, I think you are right about this. With probably very few exceptions, any man who truly loves his wife (and I am not talking about a way of feeling) will in all liklihood have an at least satisfactory marriage relationship...same for the ladies... :)
Verne

p.s. Anyone else with insights regarding social learning theory and the African-American educational experience in the inner city please comment!

: vernecarty October 10, 2006, 09:55:44 AM

I'm not saying that this is the case, but sometimes, if given the choice, the children will choose to live with the more lenient parent, in which case peer pressure becomes the dominant factor in the choices that the children make.
It could be possible that your brother deferred to his new friend, or was simply, unfortunately, distracted from the issues at hand.

My experience was different than what you describe, Verne.
I was fortunate to get sole, legal custody of my children, even though I was threatened with, "I'm divorcing you and taking the kids with/putting you out", and on and on, ad nauseum and stress. And even with the opposing lawyer working to get "joint custody", I hardly had to open my mouth during the short-lived mediation meeting in order to keep the children with me. It was for the best of all concerned.

I will still say that unless the children are being abused and/or neglected, there is more stability in leaving them in the custody of the mother who has been raising them up until that point.

What do you think goes on in the minds of children when they know there is the "tug of war" going on between mom and dad, and they don't know who they will end up living with?

Speaking in more general terms, I have seen "joint custody" arrangements that totally screw up any stability in the lives of the children. They now have TWO homes, are shuffled back and forth to share 1/2 the week with one parent and 1/2 the week with another.

Fathers can be very involved in the lives of their children even without living daily with them. And I think that children can and should be involved in custody issues when they are older, as in the case of your brother's children. From what I have seen, even grandparents can't make up for the loss of a father's influence in a child's life.

I don't know if the point I was making came clear here: Even if we marry someone that God intended us to marry, it is no guarantee that the marriage will last.

M

Just in case anyone is interested, there is an organization called "Operation World" that prints a book every few years which methodically prays for the world, country by country, day by day. This in many ways can seem overwhelming (I mean, where do you start when praying for a whole country?) But, I think the fact that many Christians in one day are all "agreeing" in prayer for that country, and for salvation of souls, is a great thing. Even just a short ejaculatory prayer (like Nehemiah did before he spoke with the King--see Nehemiah 1) for the "country of the day", in agreement with other Christians ("if two of you agree on earth touching any thing, it shall be done for them in heaven"-Matthew-paraphrase), can accomplish mighty things. It's exciting to think that God has given us the privilege to labor with Him in the fields that are "white onto harvest" in things as simple as a small prayer.

http://www.gmi.org/ow/ go to "country of the day"

Some Christians in the world don't have it as easy as we do in America. If you get a chance, read
this and if you have time please pray for these people. This e-mail was sent out by India Gospel Outreach
(their link is below):

Yesterday, I heard from Pastor John Mathai, the director of IGO's ministries in the state of Orissa. Personally, he knows two pastors who were killed by radical Hindus--one who was cut into six pieces, the other who was hacked to death.

According to Pastor Mathai, the attacks have been worse than reported. Pastor Mathai reported 92 different organized attacks taking place in dozens of villages in almost every district of Orissa. More than 600 churches have been demolished, 4,000 Christians forced to flee from their villages, and at least 25 killed as a result of violent persecution in the state of Orissa in eastern India. Over 3,000 took shelter in the jungles fearing attacks from the radicals. The government of the neighboring state of Chhattisgarh has helped to send militants against Christians in Orissa. It is also suspected that radicals have come from Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Karnataka and Maharashtra.

All over Orissa come reports of severe beatings of pastors, priests, nuns, orphanage workers, and others associated with Christian churches and charitable institutions.
In more positive news, a key appeal was heard and approved in the high court of Orissa to offer more protection to the victims of attacks. But the state government is saying that not every village will be able to receive police protection.

The Indian Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh has described the violence as a "national disgrace." Pope Benedict has also condemned the violence, and the Italian government has also expressed its concerns. These statements indicate that the persecution in Orissa is beginning to come under international scrutiny and pressure. More than 600 Catholic schools throughout India closed down in protest, and many other non-Catholic Christian churches did the same.

Six students at India Bible College and Seminary, in Kerala, come from Orissa and have family and other relatives who live in the affected areas. Of the six, four report that their parents and families are safe, presumably living in the forest. But two have not been able to make contact with their families and are very concerned as to what has happened to them. Pray for these two students and their missing families.

Continue to pray earnestly for all of our Christian brothers and sisters in Orissa. Pray that peace will prevail throughout the state. Pray for the safety of all our evangelists, pastors and believers. Pray for the faculty and students at IGO's Bible training center in Bhuvaneswar, the capital of Orissa.

Again, thanking you for your prayers,

T. Valson Abraham, India Gospel Outreach

http://www.indiago.org/

An update on Orissa since 8-29-08 post:

From Valson Abraham, India Gospel Outreach:

Yesterday (September 1), I talked to John Mathai, who is director of IGO's work in the state of Orissa, and he has told me the following news which updates you through August 31:
1. The central Indian government has finally sent the army (24 Platoons) to the cities to maintain peace. Praise the Lord for answered prayers.

2. Yesterday, one of our churches in Jeypore village was burnt, and Pastor Elijah Bagh's house was completely destroyed. Pastor Shaji Xavier (graduate of India Bible College) is in charge of this Koraput District, and he reports much destruction of Christian homes. A Christian mission school with 1,500 students has been burnt.

3. Yesterday, more than 500 Christian homes were destroyed in Gajpathi district.

4. On August 25, in Khundapali village, Bergardha district, five Pentecostal pastors were taken. The radicals poured kerosene over them and burned them alive.

5. We heard today that radicals burned the home of Evangelist Kesvo Naik, a 2006 graduate from Orissa Bible Training Center, and his family has fled to the forest.

6. A leprosarium run by Christians was completely destroyed, and the lady in charge of the women was burnt alive. (All leprosariums in Orissa are run by Christians. There is NOT a single leprosarium run by Hindus or the government in Orissa).

As of August 31, over 300 villages have been burned, 4,000 homes destroyed, and 50,000 Christians have fled into the forests (these are conservative figures). This has affected every district of Orissa. Now, violence from the persecution is beginning to spill over into other states, most notably Madhya Pradesh. The situation is much worse than the persecution that struck Christians in late December and early January. Orissa police are either helping the rioters or are nowhere in sight.

Conditions in Orissa have mobilized a committee to approach the President of India, calling for federal intervention into that state to protect the integrity of India. This committee is made up, not only of Christians, but also Muslims and a major Indian filmmaker who see the present violence as a threat against the secular constitution of India. The Prime Minister of India, Manmohan Singh, a non-Christian, has called the violence in Orissa "a national disgrace."

These are signs that pressure is building for a peaceful resolution. Not only the Christians, but the entire population, economy, political system and reputation of India are at stake. As a whole, India will suffer if it loses its reputation for religious tolerance, and investments will decline.

The violence began on August 23, after Maoists attacked and killed radical Hindu leader Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati, who masterminded the December-January persecution against Christians. Though the Maoists have claimed responsibility for the killing, and evidence points to them, the radical Hindus insist that Christians did it in revenge for the earlier persecution.

I ask for your fervent intercession for our brothers and sisters in Orissa. Let us pray as the early apostles prayed in Acts 4:29 and 30. "Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your Word with great boldness. Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your Holy servant Jesus."

Until All Have Heard,
Pastor T. Valson Abraham

The time frame of 73 to 77 is interesting as it was before my own time under the influence of the false teacher George Geftakys.
The account of Beth confirms something I have long concluded about my involvement with George Geftakys, namely that my own deception about his true spiritual state was first and foremost testimony to my own spiritual immaturity.
Sadly, the fact that many of his close associates knew exactly what he was is inescapable.
Does anyone still hold the theory that George Geftakys was really a godly man who strayed from the path, or can we now with great confidence assert that he was a devil from the beginning?
Closely observe the course of the lives of those who enabled him to destroy the flock of God. Millstones would indeed have been far more preferable for this pitiable lot...the gaze of the Chief Shepherd will for them be a time of unspeakable sorrow and loss...
Verne

I personally don't find it very helpful for me to ask if George was a godly man or a devil. I don't find either of these categories helpful because I don't think either really describe him in my mind. I see George as a very sick man who grew more comfortable with his denial over the years. I think there was probably a part of George at one time that truly aspired to be a godly man. I don't think George sat down at the kitchen table one day with Betty and said, "Cruella, let's start a cult. I can really screw over people and make lots of money."

In my experience with recovery from addiction, I met lots of folks that truly wanted to follow Jesus on the one hand yet would repeatedly fall into snares that completely contradict their desires. This is the insanity of it. Those who get better generally realized like the prodigal son that the pain isn't worth it and began to take steps to come out of denial, become accountable to a group and more towards healing. George, of course, didn't do this. He isolated himself and thus grew more comfortable with his insane, illusory world causing his acting out to became more brazen, daring and insane. His addiction to power became his friend. The more he got away with it, the deeper and more sophisticated his denial got. My guess is that to this day he still feels he has a walk with the Lord and he holds those "little slip-ups" in a compartment called denial. He probably truly believes that the accusations against him are overblown and an act of the enemy to destroy his god-annointed ministry. In his mind, I think he really believes that he was simply trying to be faithful to His Lord and is suffering the enemy's persecution as a result. In short, he probably believes that he did nothing wrong but simply walk faithfully with this savior.

How much is sheer, willful evil and how much is just pathological delusion, I don't know and I don't plan to waste my time trying to figure this question out. I just know that addiction of any type is cunning, baffling and powerful and there is no hope for George if he has lost any capacity to be honest.

What promted me to pose the question I did was not merely idle speculation about George Geftakys.
I posed the question in an attempt to explain how I came to understand my own delusion.
Like so many others, I once thought that a man who was obviously involved in gross sins of the flesh, was a Godly individual.
At the time I concluded he was a man of God, he was engaging in gross immorality, and had been for many years before I ever heard him.
True freedom from the devastation of the Geftakys years will only come to those who humbly and fully accept their own complicity, and lack of spiritual discernment in what took place.
I followed Geftakys and his henchmen because I was too spiritually immature, (or disobedient) to be led by the Spirit of God.
Verne

P.S. It took me a long time but I also finally began to understand why Betty Geftakys treated all the men in the assembly with such incredible contempt.
Her attitude is entirely understandable.
She was fully aware of what a lecher her husband was.
Nonetheless, here were all these supposedly spiritual and Godly men George had surrounded himself with.
Not only in Fullerton, but throughout the Midwest, Canada, and even places abroad- all dotishly putting George Geftakys on a pedestal.
She must have concluded that anyone involved with her philandering husband was either incredibly stupid and weak, or incredibly corrupt, or possibly all of the above.
Whatever the case was, these individuals in her view, and rightly so in mine, merited nothing but her profoundest disdain and that is exactly what they got. It all now makes perfect sense in hindsight.

: vernecarty September 05, 2008, 07:36:50 AM

Sadly, the fact that many of his close associates knew exactly what he was is inescapable.

Closely observe the course of the lives of those who enabled him to destroy the flock of God. Millstones would indeed have been far more preferable for this pitiable lot...the gaze of the Chief Shepherd will for them be a time of unspeakable sorrow and loss...
Verne

Hi Verne!

It was a very good and courageous act of Beth to tell her story and I also thank her for doing so. I'll tell you why I think it is so important: We all know GG is not going to repent, nor is it important to understand his psycho/spiritual state, but hearing her story is for the benefit of the Enablers that Verne talks about above.

As in the "former leader" that is telling folks not to read the Reflections site because "it is full of lies", or those other former members who want to place all the blame for what went on there with GG and Betty alone.

We as former members enabled GG to do what he did! The real soul searching needs to be directed at our own inner life---- and this means an honest assessment of how we turned a blind eye toward what we saw. True, not all of us like Gay (Walker) Mau saw GG's immorality and covered it up, but all of us who were around for any length of time at all certainly saw something --but we chose to be a coward in an effort to save our own skin.

Those who courageously exposed and spoke out were the real servants of Jesus Christ and these were those truly "going the way of the cross." Yet, we still have many former members who won't own up to their own culpability and wish to "get on with their own lives" without admitting how opposed they were to God and how much damage they have caused others.

This attitude is comparable to a passenger in a vehicle that hits and runs from an accident. He wasn't the driver, but he saw what happened and obstructed justice being done. Then this driver continues to drive drunk and kills some more innocent people----- This demonstrates how this passenger now has become an enabler to allow more havoc to be wreaked!

"But GG has been exposed and brought to account", some may say. "Why make such a big deal about it now as it's beating a dead horse?" Now that "the drunk driver" has been finally caught and stopped why worry about admitting that I was a passenger in that car and remained silent? The only answer is to recover your own soul. When a person takes the path of cowardice they injure their own humanity and the only way to get right is to repent--- they are living a lie!

Enablers of GG will indeed have to stand before God one day. Yes, there are many different levels of culpability, but this BB provides an opportunity to get it all clear before that day. There is no such thing as a private repentance and the clarity of soul achieved by making confession publicly will reap a blessed healing.

God Bless, Mark C.

: Mark C. September 07, 2008, 07:36:07 AM

Enablers of GG will indeed have to stand before God one day. Yes, there are many different levels of culpability, but this BB provides an opportunity to get it all clear before that day. There is no such thing as a private repentance and the clarity of soul achieved by making confession publicly will reap a blessed healing.

God Bless, Mark C.

A sobering prospect indeed Mark.
So far as the leadershp around Geftakys is concerned there were basically two kinds of people.
Those who stayed, and those who left.
I have argued strenuously on this BB over the years ( and some have accused me of being far too harsh on the leadership in the assemblies) that no godly person could serve with this man for any length of time and not see the darkness of his soul.

Samuel Ochenjele after the fact tried to convince me that he and Roger Grant on many occasions would entreat George about his ungodly conduct; while making a show of repentance, Geftakys would always repeat his sin.
I must admit I felt some sympathy at the time of the conversation, but I doubt that that is an excuse the Lord will find compelling.

Elders are charged with upholding a godly standard in the body of Christ and must be faithful - whatever the cost!

For whatever reason, some good men who should have known better continued with him and have paid, are now paying, and will ultimately pay the price for that choice.
Former leaders who do anything other than repent in dust and ashes ought to be given a wide berth in my humble opinion
The Scriptural injuction against being partakers of other men's sins powerfully applies here I think.
Only the Spirit of God has the power to enable these men to really appreciate what they did.
I suspect they resisted His admonition during the time they enabled Geftakys. Ongoing hard-heartedness should come as no surprise. May God have mercy on them.

Prayer request Dr. PaulMartin, the founder and director of Wellspring Retreat and Resource Center, was hospitalized recently for pneumonia, and was discovered to have leukemia. Chemo has begun and he will remain hospitalized for at least six weeks. Dr. Martin has helped so many people. Please uphold him and his family in prayer, and perhaps those of you who have benefited from Wellspring might send him some pix and reports of how you are doing now. Send mail to P. O. Box 67, Albany, OH 45710.

Wellspring will continue in its capacity to help survivors, and here's a heads-up to all you who have wished you could afford to attend the two-week in-house recovery program: Wellspring is currently offering a reduced rate for those in need. A "scholarship" reduction of 65% is now available every month for those who qualify.

Advent blessings to you all!

Margaret

AssemblyBoard

General Discussion => Any and All Topics => : Robb Middleton October 03, 2006, 03:28:05 AM