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hey

I'm sorry David but I can't agree that we need more details.  Suffice it to say the details warranted the extreme measure of excommunication.  Tho' that step has in the past been lightly exercised, I think this time it was very solemnly considered.

Tim,
I agree with you. These are sad days indeed.
Let's all go forward.....................
'His compassions fail not. They are new every morning; great is Thy faithfulness.' Lamentations 3: 22 -23

I agree with Tim and Terri...having the details is not going to change the situation and could in fact make it worse... unless he repents George is going to have to face up to these sins before the Lord...I for one am praying for his repentance...and I don't want to know the details...

AMEN! Teri and Nancy B.

David,  I understand your desire to want to know more details.  That is in all of us.  But when you look at how we are to deal with one another in the scriptures, that is not what we are to do.  If you had been the brother who had offended, would you want your dirty laundry (no matter how bad it was) to be aired before the Lord's people?  I would think not.  It is bad enough that it has to be said at all in the manner it was.  Suffice it to say, that the evidence that was presented was strong enough for the brothers to excommuncite George and for them to step down from their leadership positions.  That says enough!  

For those men who are still in the position of trying to decide whether to align themselves with George or to take similar steps as the men in Fullerton, read your bibles men.  Each step of church discipline has been taken.  Matthew 18 has been followed.  What did Paul tell the Corinthian church with the brother who was in the same offense?  When the steps of Matthew 18 have been taken and such a one refuses to submit to the church, the next step is excommunication and to warn the church not to have anything to do with such a one, except he repent.  The men of Fullerton (with whom you have labored with for years and years-some of you decades-and respected) have taken these steps.  What is there for you to consider?  Clear yourselves in this matter.  Show the sheep in your flocks that you are meek and humble men of God who are willing to stand with your brethren in this matter (you don't need to know the nitty gritty details) and step down from your leardership positions (asking the sheep if that is what they want is ridiculous-we've never been able to take a stand like that in this place and you know that.)

Kimberley

For the record, I find that the information given is more than enough to provide TOO MUCH information on George's activities.

However, it's a little silly for five people to jump in and tell David that we don't go into details like that.  This entire website is filled with dirty laundry, or at least it was before the "clean sweep".  Stories have been told, details divulged, laundry aired.  If details of George's transgressions WERE being made available, it would not be out of step with that which has already been presented here online.

That said...PLEASE!! Spare us the details.  ;D

I can understand David's question.  After all these are men who are now admitting to lieing about sins in the past and we are to take their word for it?  At the same time, there is another side, the women who came forward to talk about what happen.  We do not know to what degree they were forced or victimized in the situation.  If they wish to come forward with their stories they should be allowed to.  

However, I hope that in all of this, we will not assume that we know the worst and that their are no more victims out there, possibly victimized by others in leadership.  I would hope all victims of abuse would come forward with their stories so that we could know a full clearing in the matter of abuses has occurred.  I hope that the excommunication of George will not be looked at as a closing the book on this matter.  Remember, a little leaven, leavens the whole lump.  It would be tragic if after all that everyone is going through right now, other sins and abuses were "lost in the shuffle" so to speak and remained hidden only to corrupt whatever may come out of this time.

This is a hard question to determine what would be proper.

I think the letter was a bit vague. Kind of hard to pray for clear repentance for the person without the corect information.

Was it only this issue that he was excommunicated for or was it a larger issue as well?

Glad to hear that the leaders in Fullerton finally stepped up to the plate and acted. Also, its good to hear that they all resigned. Let God's Spirit move in his people to show the direction to go.

Recommened reading if you haven't is Gene Edwards book "When the Church was led only by Laymen".  This pamphlet sets out some great spiritual truths.  Available from Seedsowers.com.

Looking for the blessed hope of forgivness and reconciliation, Paris

PS Jan 25 Edited to remove some hearsay that was better left unsaid...

Dave, Karen, et al...
I'm sorry if you feel like the FOUR people who posted shortly after yours were jumping on you.  That was not my intention...I just happened to get online at that time and didn't even look to see what time you had posted.  Please forgive me if I seemed to be "jumping in" when I shouldn't have been! (And for the record I wasn't telling anyone "we don't go into details like that"...I was simply sharing my thoughts on the subject)
I can understand your reasons for wanting more details and I'm glad that we have the liberty to have varying opinions even on major issues such as this...I can trust God to work out the details...and I do hope that if there are any others who have been hurt  that they will be able to find release and healing...this website and BB have been a great blessing and I hope that it continues as such.
Lord bless you...
Nancy

I've always wondered, how exactly does a church hand someone over to Satan?

Hi all, just want to make a point about the judgement we see take place in Corinth, this point was brought to me by another dear brother.

If you take the hole passage in context, Paul directly points out what the sin was I Cor 5:1.

Now having said that you all can debate as to what should be done.  I am content to know what we already know for now.

Lord Bless,
G

Amen Rudy,

I would add that which was preached in the Assemblies and I still whole-heartedly believe: Believers should conduct themselves in a manner that avoids all appearances of evil. This must especially true for shepherds that God has approited.

There should be no room for an accusation. I like Billy Grahams condition that he has never and will never be in the same room alone with a woman that is not his wife. Simply because he NEVER wanted there to be any possible accusation of impropriety.

May we all live lives like that!

 ??? Where is this going?  All I want is If George committed adultery "within the last 20 years" then say so.  If not then say what he did. Think about it.  When is this dysfunction going to end?  If they are going to start behaving like a healthy church then do it now!  Imagine if you were disciplined for having a sister give you a massage.  Would you appreciate it being worded as such?   Am I trying to defend George? Yes isint this what righteousness is all about? I dont think he committed adultry because they would have said so right out in the open. Instead they do what they have always done. Infer!In short NO I do not trust the "Leading Brothers"  who mind you have lied covered up and unfairly malined people  for the past 33 years!

Ah, so David you are saying that the possibility exists that the leadership is using George as a scapegoat to cover up their own sin just as they have being doing for, what, 30 years?  Hmm...just maybe you have a point there.  You know, when I read about George being excommunicated, I thought that wow, this is finally it and there must be true repentence in Fullerton among the leaders.  But now that you mention it, I could totally see the scenario where they jetison George like a bad warp core and then continue on their merry assembly trek pretending nothing happened and...pretending that they are not partakers in his guilt.  The question is, and here is at least part of the proof in the pudding: Are they stepping down from leadership?"  I don't know for sure because I'm not there.

Arthur

David, I would love to for one of the leading brothers (errr former leading brothers) reading this site, once and for all come out and set the record straight.  Like has been pointed out, in I Cor. 5 we clearly see why the brother was to be put out.

You last post if ture scares, does not shock me but scares me.  

"IF" they knew something was going on for two years and had any type of proof (again I say if), then  why let him go on journeys, visit other assemblies, etc.  I then go along with Arthur, and have to ask, what other big things are going to come out?

Lord Have Mercy on them!
G

Pleeeeeeease Guys:

Don't even go down the road of questioning whether or not these accusations are true.  They are.  There are still other assemblies that are not willing to stand against the wicked teachings of GG, a man who has proved to be an immoral, ungodly man.  They don't need any ammunition with which to sway the poor little sheep in the respective gatherings to keep them under bondage.  

These women are victims.  They do not need to be pranced out before all the body of Christ to see, to determine whether these accusations are valid.  The testimony has been presented and MANY people are standing for the next step in this process to be carried out completely....that of a complete excommunication of George and Betty.  These men have stepped down from their leadership positions.  How can we say that they are simply doing this to maintain a position.  What position?  There aren't any positions left.

Come on, let's stand with those who God has FINALLY used to bring George to account.  

It does not dismiss the men who have their own sins to deal with.  These men know who they are.  This is just beginning.  If they, themselves do not repent and turn from THEIR sin and make things right, God will deal with them as well.  

First things first.

I love you all! :)

Greetings everyone:

I just want to make a suggestion that some of us don't want to clearly know what the sin was so that we don't have to admit to ourselves what kind of man we followed for so long. Let's face it, we were to a not insignificant degree following a man. Peter's bad example was publicly named and rebuked by Paul. We know Peter took it and repented. Like David said, all the details (with whom,etc.)
are unnecessary, but clearly state the basis on which he is disfellowshipped. Others need to be protected from this man and his immediate family. I consider it a need to know situation after what he, his wife and sons perpetrated on so many for so long. Don't let the leaders treat you like children.

Oh sorry Kimberley, you are so right, I should make a clarification to my hunch.  It is a known fact that George has committed indecent and immoral acts with women. Yes.  No question.  Ok, now I think that it is still possible for the leaders in Fullerton to use him as a scapegoat, and the fact that he actually did those things aids their case even more.  They can so easily say, see, there is the source of all the poison, it was Brother George's fault, and so distract attention from their own sins.  They did the same thing with David in SLO.  
Have they stepped down from their positions?  I need (and I will) call them and others there to confirm.  The other part of the proof in the pudding is that there is a full and absolute clearing of all possible guilt in this matter.  See Chuck's post re: what they should do, i.e. make a list of every person they might possibly have offended, get some dirt and grovel in it before the person asking for repentence, etc.

Arthur

I guess what some are saying here is that we not only want THE truth, but also the WHOLE truth, and NOTHING BUT the truth!

I admit we more than likely might not get it, but there sure is a lot more that should be brought into the light.


Kimberly, what do you mean by this statement?
.

Cheers,
G

G - What I meant was that there are still some assemblies who have not even decided whether they are going to honor the excommunication or not.  From what I understand there is also at least one assembly that the leadership has not even made a general announcement as to the excommunication, at all.  The only way the members are finding out is through this website.

And Arthur - absolutely brother, I couldn't agree with you more.  There are more men (and women for that matter) who need to come clean of their own sins and step down from leadership.  Everyone in this place needs to take Chuck Vanasse's advice and really search their hearts and make right with anyone they have hurt.

Oh, come now Rudy, he was getting doughnuts of course.  But you will be sure not to tell Betty that I told you, right?

Getting back to the original request for more detail, I would just add that my concern is not so much for information as for the women involved.  For any of them to go public in this forum would surely be difficult beyond imagination.  I didn't get the impression from the notably vague letter that these were street prostitutes; if sisters in fellowship were coerced into immorality, they are in line for some serious compassion from individuals who can understand and offer genuine support.  If I might be so bold as to speak on Rachel's behalf, I would invite those sisters to contact Rachel privately with the understanding that they will not be pressured to go public until they are fully prepared to do so.  May our loving Maker, Defender, Redeemer, and Friend be known as the one who is able to restore what the various locusts have destroyed.  (Joel 2:25)  

OK,
Now that I've had a chance to read up on what's been said since I last commented on this thread...

I think what is troubling some of us is that his sin was not specifically named as "adultery".  It does not seem, after all, to be a desire for the digging up of dirt.  (Someone, like David who started this, confirm or deny this.)  It would be good if someone in the know would declare whether or not this is true.

Nonetheless, even if the "immoral" behavior had not occurred, it seems to me that there was adequate ground for the excommunication.

Hi Tim, Can't confess to being in the know...but I have been around here a while and I try to learn as much as possible from others here!

I think that some people feel it's important to know what George has been up to, especially for those who are on the fence or are very recent leavers.  Many of them still have blinders on (I say this lovingly, brothers and sisters) and it's imperative that they see just what kind of a terrible and evil sham of a man they were following.  

Sometimes, detail is really what propels us to action--let's all face it.  If we had just heard that David G "abused his wife and daughter", would we feel the same way we did after reading dear Rachel's account of her life?

I understand not revealing the names of the wounded.  That part makes perfect sense.

Greetings eveyone:
I thing Roger H.'s concern is is very important, but so is the original question-what is GG ex-comm.ed for? Neither are really secondary in my opinion.
My wife, who was never an assembly member, is of the opinion that George was grooming potential "partners" through the foot and hand massages.

I guess there was another reason for why George was
yelling into a pillow at 4:00 in the morning. (sorry--bad joke).

Hi  Tim, yes! this is what I have been saying all along,   Personaly I have talked to repitable people who told me George committed "adultry" in the 1960's.  While amongst the Plymouth Bretheren.  No doubt he is guilty of many sins worthy of this type of discipline.  My concern is those who are still in power are not being "in the light" Nor have they made any stepps towards repenting themselves.

David,

What sort of "light" is it to become a Unitarian Buddhist, like you, and then become publicly concerned about the repentance of others?

Additionally, what sort of dicsipline do you recommend for your own apostasy?

for those of you who care to evaluate Rudy's mischaracterizations, you can do so on http://www.geftakyslodge.com (http://www.geftakyslodge.com).

Rudy,

I've read your stuff too.

You think you can make all sorts of inferences about people just because the forum you are in castigates them. One of the problems with the exposure of sin is the kind of blasphemy that you repeatedly engage in on this forum.

Who knows you anyway? Or your Christian association? You are just a popoff from who-knows-where, doing who-knows-what, with who-knows-whom?

I'm not even going to specify what those inferences by you are, because they are mere evil speculations: they are slander. I asked you for clarification of your inferences about someone in your posts here, privately, and you demurred. I reject your evil surmisings, even about an offending brother such as George Geftakys.

As for fellowship with an apostate who publicly declares his shameful rejection of Christ - as David Mauldin has - that's your business if you care to have it. There are others who read here who would be appalled to learn of his public declaration of devotion to Buddha!

The guy should be rebuked by every Christian with whom he has an exchange.

For the record, here is what I said to Mauldin:

Here is what you say here about your own self:

I am living in La Mirada CA. Just bought a condo- I teach in Buena Park at Gilbert School and I attend the Unitarian Church in Fullerton.  I sing in the choir and work with the homeless. I also study Buddism[sic] (I consider myself a Buhddist[sic]) and enjoy attending seminars at the Philisophical[sic] Research Center.

As bad as the Lodge is, it still hasn't achieved the low status of your haunts.

So, you tell us that you hang around with demons and their teaching, and we are supposed to listen to you prate on in your judgments about Christians?

I want you to know I, for one, am not that stupid.

By the way: I AM THE ONE WHO DELETED MY STUFF FROM THIS SITE TO DISSOCIATE WITH IT FOR CAUSE. If you would like to verify that, I am confident Brent Tr0ckman will oblige you.

So really, Rudy, with your standard of truth and association being as low a it is, I am happy not to meet it.

John J. Malone, Sr.
Editor, www.geftakyslodge.com (http://www.geftakyslodge.com)

I take your last sentence as a commitment. Just remember it before you post public statements to or about me again.

You ought to be more careful who you call out for public argument, lest he come by and publicly clean your clock, as a modern translation of Proverbs 25:8 might read.

I don't blame you for your commitment, either: If I were a guy doing what you are doing, I wouldn't want to communicate with a guy like me either.

Now, If you will make the same commitment about slander and blasphemy about others, even the Lord Himself may be pleased.

As for "giving you your space" who in the world can know what that means? I will understand it to mean leave you to a secret sort of cyber life.

John J. Malone, Sr.
Omaha, NE
Editor http://www.geftakyslodge.com (http://www.geftakyslodge.com)

Hello editor, Why am I a part of this website?  Let me approach it from a view you may accept.  In the scripture we see God use a Jackass to communtcate with His people, Also we see that God in the scriptures also uses "ungodly" people to judge his own "Ungodlier" people.  Also we see in the Scriptures men who are not of the Hebrew or Christian Faith and yet God speeks to them and honors their prayers.

Another argument is that while I was a christian I worked harder than you all to expose the sins of the Geftakys assembly.  I wrote many of the articles you read on the Rick Ross website.  

Anther argument:  Although I am not of the Christian faith as you understand it I believe in many of the things Christ taught.  "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

As for the criticism I recieved from Mr Malone.  In a true sence deserve it. O.K.  I'll suffer the ridicule.  But can I still voice my opinions?  Thomas Jefferson said regaurding points of view.  "Truth is its own justification.  Let us exercise freedom of speech in order that we mwy evaluate its validity..."

Interesting Note:  After the Bolshavic took over Russia they turned on their own revolutionaries and devouererd them  Is this now my fate?

Dave, For old time's sake ... SUPERNOGOOD!!!

Hey Dave,

I'm not really sure if this is what you are asking for. When I left the Assembly in SLO I had christian backing from outsiders who encouraged me what to do. Of course once I bleated out what I had seen with David G. I was considered an outcast. For some reason everytime I opened my bible, I could hear ministry on it. Yes, I was hearing voices.... I couldn't open my bible or pray without feeling guilty. It has taken me two years to rediscover the child within who use to love Jesus. It has taken me two years to discover that God loves me. I never heard about the love of God in ministry. There was no grace or hope. I was constantly striving in the SLO assembly. I just couldn't fit in.

Two years to realize that God loves me! What a great ministry that doesn't declare the love, grace, hope and joy of Jesus Christ.

Heide

Heide,

I understand you completely! I too had problems opening up my Bible, because all I could see was condemnation put upon me by the Assembly.  All I saw was SIN SIN SIN!  Now, I see the love of God.  I am so glad that Jesus loves me, not because of what I do for Him, but because of what Jesus Christ accomplished on the cross.  Although I do admit to hearing this in the ministry, it was never put into practice.

George spoke a lot about if/then.  If I do this or that, I will recewive my inheritance, etc, etc.  I don't worry too much about my inheritance!  I just focus simply on Jesus! ;D

Heide,

I understand you completely! I too had problems opening up my Bible, because all I could see was condemnation put upon me by the Assembly.  All I saw was SIN SIN SIN!  Now, I see the love of God.  I am so glad that Jesus loves me, not because of what I do for Him, but because of what Jesus Christ accomplished on the cross.  Although I do admit to hearing this in the ministry, it was never put into practice.

George spoke a lot about if/then.  If I do this or that, I will receive my inheritance, etc, etc.  I don't worry too much about my inheritance!  I just focus simply on Jesus! ;D