AssemblyBoard

Hi,

My first post just might cause an aftershock here in SLO.  I still believe there is need for discretion with regard to sordid details (especially regarding people who have repented), but I no longer consider this site to be "gossip".  I also believe that jabs and insults will evoke a defense reaction in the minds of those who are still in the assemblies.  I don't want to discredit my message with the manor in which it is presented.  I was shocked to read what is left on this site by Judy, Rachel and Kirk.  I fail to see the hate, deception and bitterness in their writings.

I've got some questions that I know some of you can answer.  Please do not call me (if you know my number).  I want the answers to be on the web for all to see (and so that the answers can be printed out and shown to certain people if need be).  If you call, I will not discuss these things with you, unless you are either Brent Tr0ckman or Brian Stupar.  At this point if anyone in leadership wants to answer these questions or discuss them with me, they need to respond with a post (no calls, no exceptions).  If I find out I'm off base I'll be the first to ask your forgiveness.    Here goes:

Euleah Long:  A few months ago the leading brothers read a letter from you to the assembly in the prayer meeting here in SLO.  It stated that you admitted that you left because you were not willing to take responsibility for your actions and instead blamed the leadership.  It said that you had tried to have your statements removed from the web, but those responsible would not take them down.  We were told you also wrote a letter to each leading brother (maybe not Danny or Ray, I'm not sure) asking for forgiveness for the way you "made life a living hell" for them with your words.  Is this true?  Did you write such letters of apology to the leaders and to the assembly?

Rob Kazarinoff:  Jeff Lehmkuhl told me that at your last meeting with the leading brothers you told them that you were satisfied with their explanation as to how they dealt with David's sin.  He also told me that you said that even though you were satisfied you would still leave because you had "already gone too far down that path."  Is this true?

Jeff Lehmkuhl:  Within the past year a letter was read to the assembly (I think at a prayer meeting) from someone who visited a meeting at the Sands Motel.  The letter said something to the effect that the author was so encouraged to see such a great fellowship of believers while on his travels.  I can't remember his name.  Did you keep that letter?  If so, can I write this man?

Jeff Lehmkuhl:  When Kirk wrote his letter on 10/31/02, and I asked you about the restraining order, you said that Kirk did not tell the whole story.  You said that he left out details of "Rachel's shameful behavior that was related to the restraining order."  You did not tell me what her "shameful behavior" was.  I downloaded and read the restraining order and can't find the "shameful behavior".  Are you referring to her claim that she was calling her boyfriend?  That may not have been the wisest thing she did (considering what she herself said about him in her story), but I would hardly call that shameful.  Why did you imply that she was doing something bad when her father abused her (which was the reason for the restraining order, for those who have not read Kirk's writings).

All the leaders in SLO:  You have stated repeatedly that what happened in SLO (on your watch) was due to your ignorance of the facts.  You have said that you acted in good-will.  The writings of Judy, Rachel and Kirk on this site all very clearly say that you knew exactly what was going on and leave no room for "good-will" on your part.  Are they lying?  If so, please say so openly on this site.  These are some of the offended people we are supposed to be reconciled with.  I'm not going to accuse the offended of lying.  That would be to deny them good-will.

At the behest George, I tried to help David along in his "repentance" for the last 8 months.  I talked and prayed with him almost once a week.  I gradually became aware that to believe him would mean to believe that everyone else is lying or deceived. He presented himself as the ONLY source of credible information.  When I asked why so many other people's versions of things were different than his, he just said, "I don't know."  His two most common answers to inquiries about his behavior and words were, "I never said that" and "I don't remember."  Twice I've  called him on it.  He told me he does not want to pray with me anymore.  He didn't like it when I told the leading brothers about the weird things he said.  He said (or itimated, as was his practice) that I was gossiping by telling the leaders.  I told him I had only told the leading brothers, and that it was their job to know, considering he was under such suspicion (I had forgotten that I had asked a sister about how he told different stories about the same black eye Judy had).  At this point, all bets are off with regard to the secrecy that David insisted he had a right to.  Openness is ok.  I really believe it is the only way now to get things out into the light.  When I asked about why he or she called 9-1-1, he said it was none of my business.  He said he was protecting Judy from our condemnation should she ever come back.

Is it just me, or is this a pattern?  I have been lying awake all night mulling these things over, so maybe I got something wrong.  If so, please explain ON THE WEB where my questions are askew.  If it turns out that you have actively, knowingly covered up David's sin and yours, I do not believe there will be an assemby in SLO any longer.  I'm waiting for answers.

Jack Hutchinson

P.S.  Perhaps all this has happened not to bring about a "new direction" for the assemblies, but so that those who sincerely want to walk with the Lord will be delivered from bondage and darkness to walk in liberty and light in other churches that we used to mock.

P.P.S.S.  Please don't urge me to leave or to stay.  I'm just seeking the Lord for what He wants.

I wish to make a correction.  Even in Rob's letter he made an exception for Ray Dienzo in light of culpability.  I wish to do the same in the name of fairness and good-will.  Most of the comments in the writings of Judy, Rachel and Kirk mention Jeff and Roberto (and include some references to Danny).  So, when I say "All the leadership in SLO", I'm willing to cut Ray some slack.

Jack Hutchinson

Hey Jack!

Wow!  Excellent questions. I wonder the same things and I would also like a response.  If there be true repentence, then let there be an absolute clearing of all matters.
Thanks for posting this.

Arthur

I want to add that the request not to call me is only til further notice.  This is not a blanket rejection of my friends (as I used to assume about people who have left).  I just want to direct the conversation into the light of public scrutiny.  I know that other pastors are reading this and will bring this up when they meet with the leadership again.  The leaders told us that they would be accountable to the Christian community for what goes on, so this is a part of that accountability.  Things are happening fast, so it shouldn't be long before it becomes obvious to a lot more people what is really going on.  If God wants to vindicate an assembly, He can do it.  The gates of hell will not prevail against an assembly of believers if God wants to protect it from attack from the outside.  But, if you read Revelation 2 and 3 you will see that the Lord will remove the candlestick from an assembly that has rotted from the inside.  I am not calling for the "destruction" of the assembly in SLO or anywhere else.  Also, I do not believe that it is the business of people who have left to call for leaders to step down (that's the kind of meddling that people have been saying Fullerton has been doing to the assemblies).  God can and will vindicate His Name.  I have no right to tell anyone that they must shut down an assembly.  That is God's job if need be.  In time, I believe the assembly in SLO may self-destruct, and others as well.

God can do anything.  A lot of people have been saying that since last weekend, and I am still rejoicing in that reality.  Sometimes the most incredible things God does are the ones you thought would never, ever happen (and sometimes the things that you thought MUST not happen).

I know some are reading this thinking, "What?  Jack Hutchinson posted that?"  I know, I've always been Mr. Status Quo, Mr. Don't Rock the Boat.  I am terrified of conflict and confrontation.  That is a strength and a weakness.  A strength because I try hard not to offend people (though sometimes I must).  However, it is a weakness because I fear rejection if I challenge someone.

Things are dawning on me so fast I have no idea what this day will bring.  I can't think about anything else right now, and that's good.  This revelation is so profound, I know this is the beginning of a new life for me.


Jack

Jack,

I was so sad to hear about Mary Jean.  I think about Mary Jean a lot, I really miss her.  She was in an accounting class with me along with Mike Duwelling.  Mike use to write the Bible Study times on the chalk board.  I would notice Mike and Mary Jean praying together before class.  I didn't find out until years later that they were praying for one of their classmates to get saved - I was the one.

My fondest memory of your sister was when I took a vacation to Yosemite.  She came with and we had the best time.  She wanted to buy hiking boots before we went to the park so we stopped at a store.  She talked to the salesman for an hour about the Lord but never ended up buying any boots.   I just wanted to get to the park but she was in no hurry.

We got to the park really late at night and it was pitch black.  She had to go real bad so I stopped on the side of the road.  I have never seen so many stars in the sky as I did night.  We laughed so hard!  Just think what we would have missed had I not stopped the car.

We hiked up to the top of Yosemite Falls and sang hymns and died laughing telling stories.  I really miss her.

I was told by someone in fellowship at another gathering that you left fellowship right after that.  

I know what you mean about not being able to sleep.  I couldn't sleep for a couple of nights.  My mind would not let me stop thinking.  Everything finally started to making sense.

Although it has been 12 years since I left, reading these posts bring back memories that seem like only yesterday.

Lori

It all depends on what your definition of "left" is.  I was not walking with the Lord at that time, and sad to say, even MJ's death didn't change that.  I kept up appearances for my family's sake for the funeral, etc.  From about 1995 to about 2000 I wallowed in self-pity alot.  I saw myself as a spiritual failure, since I did not have the self-control to emulate what I thought constituted holiness.  I would come to maybe 1 or 2 Sunday meetings a month.  I never said, "I'm leaving fellowship."  I just was giving up on God in my unbelief, which was sin.  Since 2000 I've been more quick to repent of blaming God.  Now, I have just enough reality with the Lord to deal with this whole thing.  Last night I went to the prayer meeting in SLO.  Today, I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet.  That may very well have been my last assembly meeting.

I'm a wedding videographer and a bride wants to pay the balance for her video, so I've got to go.  What a pleasant surprise to get $500 when I only expected her to make her monthly payment of $100!

Jack

Jack,

All I could think when I saw your post was, YES!!!!!  

Your questions are excellent.  I also agree with your stand on wanting to do all the discussion out in the open.  As many know I have made the request that any contact with me be in writing as I do not wish for another he-said, she-said situation.  

Jack, your experience with my father was simular to my husband's.  We were still talking to him for a while after my mother left and caught him in a number of lies.  We began to see a pattern emerging.  When I would challenge him he would become irrate, (as explained in my story).  It was this that gave, especially to my husband, the final assurance that my mother was telling the truth and that my father was lieing and in sin.  It was at that point that we cut off contact with him.  It was becoming to emotionally expensive for us.  I had ended up in pre-term labor after one especially intense episode and it was not worth the cost of our child to stay involved with an unrepentant man.  

Also, your posts have cleared up a lot for me about what you have been thinking.  I have often wondered but didn't ask because I figured you would not consider me a close enough friend to trust me to confide in me.  I had found that the assembly was not the best place for trusting friendships.  However, you have often been on my heart and in my thoughts.  If you ever do want to talk, message me and I will send you my number.  I hope that you are doing well.

Rachel

PS  Tell your mom and Nora I said hi.  I have written Nora a number of times but never heard back.

Jack,
I was only telling you what I heard.  It doesn't sound like you "left" to me.  I don't go to church EVERY Sunday anymore and guess what - I don't feel guilty about it either.  

I always enjoyed the ministry that you brought and I always thought that you were sincere.  

Lori

Lori,

No offense taken at all.  I just like the "Clinton" response of "it all depends on..."

I didn't preach very often, yet when I did, people made the same response you did.

As far as Sundays are concerned, when MJ went to be with the Lord in 1998 I decided to visit my family more often.  I always came back on Sunday, so I didn't go to church.  I really didn't have a problem with that, and nobody in leadership tried to get me to go on Sundays more often.  I knew I needed to spend time with my family, so I did.  Sure, the occasional feeling of guilt would arise, but I did fine.  I've been ignoring my false-gulit a lot lately.  I'm sure I'm really going to grow in the near future.

Jack

Jack,
I remember when I went to my mothers birthday.  Because it meant missing a Sunday it was looked down upon.  I went anyways and had to deal with the guilt.  

I remember when my brother got married, I was told not to go to his wedding.  I didn't go to his wedding because his wife had been married before.  I did go to the reception though.

It is easy to look back now and say how ridiculous!
Lori

Rachel,

Thanks for your response.  Now I know why you are so particular as to how to contact you.  At this point, as strange as it seems, the internet is the only way to discuss things freely regarding the assemblies.  It shouldn't have to be like this.

Yeah, I would not have trusted you, since I knew there was controversy surrounding your life.  I avoided conflict like the plague.  Please forgive me for not caring and not wanting to get involved.

We'll talk more later, but I'd just lose it if I called you right now.

Jack

Brent,

You were there at the reconciliation meeting on Saturday.  Do you think that any of my posts are inappropriate in any way?  Am I out of line or in danger of discouraging anyone or causing division?

Jack

Hi Jack,

I think they are some hard answers and questions. I'll leave Brent to decide ont he contents!

Glad to hear things are going better. Hopefully we can all stop blaming God or one another and get back to walking before Him simplely.

Give me a call when you want to talk. I'll l;ook to see what gets posted here.

Paris Templin
650.508.0877

Hello Jack

I think your questions are excellent.  I think the answers contain salvation and repentance.  The sooner they are answered, the better.

I am reluctant to enter the public exposure business again.  I am trusting the Holy Spirit to convict of sin and righteousness.

If the questions are not anwered, then that in itself is an answer, no?

The Lord delivers us little by little.  Denial is a good thing in the short term, but it is called lying when it outlives its purpose.

Brent

Hi Jack!!

Wow, I haven't talked to you in sooooo long! I have thought of you though, and wondered how you were doing. Anyway, I hope you're doing well, and by the looks of things ( what you are posting) you're doing great!  I'm so encouraged with what you are posting. Your perspective is right on!
Also, I want you to know that even though I left the SLO assembly almost 3 years ago, I never abandoned my friendships in my heart. It was extremely awkward to try and contact anyone, and i wasn't too sure about the reception I would get...I'm not a big fan of confrontation either!
Also, I was at the SLO meeting on Sunday when Brent and suzie were welcomed...It is no exaggeration to say I truly witnessed a miracle. I NEVER believed things would turn out this way! The greatest miracle, to me, of all of it, was that God actually changed proud, arrogant, stubborn hearts! I'm encouraged to keep praying for my dad...I'm a firm believer now that ANYTHING is possible!

Your Friend,

Cristina

p.s. email me and catch me up on your life!!

Update from tonight.

I fell back into my old habit of being driven by false guilt.  I thought that since my post challenged the leaders that I needed to ask their forgiveness (unquestioned authority - how creepy is that?).  I approached all but Danny Edwards, who says he will not post here anymore.  Brent and Kirk both agree that these men have repented, but they need to keep repenting.  Their minds are so twisted by the Geftakys culture that they just don't see it.

I lacked the courage to stand during the following conversations, but I trust I will do better next time.  If you're in the assemblies you need to read Brent's article, "The Code of Silence".

Ray Dienzo said my post was inappropriate for this post-reconciliation period.  He said it would have been fine before, but now we are experiencing the "broad stroke of grace".  Ray did not read my post.  He said his wife read it, became alarmed and told him about it.  He said he doesn't spend much time on this site.

Jeff Lehmkuhl said he tried to post something but he couldn't figure out how to post (it took me about 90 seconds to register).  He said he avoids the bulletin boards because he does not want to get in trouble if he writes something that is just a little off.

Roberto Sanchez talked to me for about 20 minutes.  He firmly told me to avoid this bulletin board because it is full of "gossip".  Note how he used the classic "Equate truth with gossip" move.  If this site has gossip (which is sin) then he needs to tell that to Brent Tr0ckman and/or Brian Stupar.  He then spent 5- 10 minutes telling me that Rachel's story has things in it that are too weird to be true.  "Shackles?...come on!"  Another classic "Diss the critic" move.

God loves these men.  They are not the enemy.  We need to pray for them.  They have repented, but need to keep repenting.  We need to be bold and stand up to them by saying things like:

"You're trying to use guilt to get me to do what you want."

"Yes, there are two sides to the story.  Then why do you make people feel guilty for getting both sides?"

"I'm not causing discouragement by openly talking about maybe going to another church.  It's abuse, pride and legalism that discourages people."

"Just because someone leaves the assembly does not mean that they are like the hireling who flees the flock."

"I'm not being divisive by telling the saints the truth."

"No, I am not being divisive by talking to saints about opinions you do not hold."

"You have no right to "encourage me" not to read the website about the assemblies.  I'm not your child."

"I'm not being divisive by contacting the saints by email encouraging them to read the website."

Pray, pray, pray.  We dare not slip back into the darkness and bondage we have suffered under for so long.

Snatched from the fire,

Jack Hutchinson

Who are you, and what have you done with Jack Hutchunson?

My dear old friend, Jack:

I am reading your posts, and I am amazed at the clarity and eloquence!  I mean it.  I can't tell you how my heart is soaring right now!  It's like I'm getting all my old friends back!

Stand for the truth, walk with God, and be a conduit for His love.

Your friend, Eric.  ;D

P.S:  Email me!  I've written a letter - my burden for the saints - and I want to send it out.

Jack,
     I don't know you.  But I knew your sister Mary Jean.  I know that having answers is a part of being able to heal.  I wish that others  ( leadership etc.......) would be able to see that and understand.  I am praying that they would be good shepherds and help one of the sheep get answers!  In prayer!  Sue

Huh?  These men have repented?  Funny, I can't tell much difference.  


Right on, Jack!

Arthur

Dear Jack

As per our phone conversation last night, I need to go on record as being in total agreement with you.

I am concerned about exactly the same things, as is everyone else.

However, as these brothers' worst critic, I need to say a few things.

They were not nearly as corrupt as I had assumed.  I needed to be reminded that God sees the heart.  They were, however, far more deceived than I had thought.  They have truly repented, but a battle rages, and they are weak.  However, God is strong, and He won't let anyone snatch them out of his hand.  Give them a chance to open their eyes, and where needed, help them.  Now is the time to speak the truth.  It is NOT the time to dance around issues, or fall back into the "Code of Silence."

What is happening right now is a spiritual battle of epic proportions.  The Devil want to blind us, and poison our minds towards one another.  He has been successfull at this for 30 years.  Keep this in mind at all times!

Don't be afraid to ask the hard questions, as they are the ones that most need to be asked.  The answers, or lack thereof, are critical, because there the darkness will be revealed.  Expose darkness with light.

This is no longer my job, exposing.  You all must obey eph 5:8-14 on your own, in person, with the people in your sphere.  You can't look to me to do it, it is your RESPONSIBILITY!!!

Immediately, get counsel from local Christian leaders, and involve them in the situation.  Closed door meetings, controlled by ex-lb's are not what is needed.  (This is a rhetorical statement, not an accusation)

If someone tries to slander your honest words, or this website, stand up, and speak in a loud clear voice, so everyone can hear you, "Why?  Why do you think this is gossip?  There are thousands of people on that site, and it has been used to deliver us.  How is that gossip?  Can you, mr. ex-LB explain that to us all, right now?  What is gossip and where is it to be found in this?"

Try it.

Brent

So am I, albeit to different questions.

Has SLO excommunicated DG?

Who was excommunicated in Fullerton? GG, Betty, Tim?

What are the specific charges against GG?  His son is out of control, adultery?

What does "immoral and unseemly relationships with several sisters" mean exactly?  Sexual intercourse, a sister rubbing his foot?

Who was present at this excommunication? All FT workers, elders from  other assemblies, LB's from assys?

Was the decision unanimous among those present?  

Were any FTW's or Fullerton leadership absent?  Was their absence a vote against excommunication?

Which FTW's or Fullerton & SLO leadership have stepped down because of the DG situation?  Are any of those who resigned remaining in fellowship?

What are the facts surrounding GG's separation from the Plymouth Brethren before the saints started meeting in Hillcrest Park?  Adultery, impasse re arcane doctrines, personality?

--
Why do I ask?  Because knowing the facts promotes healing and quells gossip and conjecture.
--
 
Peter James
St. Louis, MO

Dearest Jack,

Please forgive me for not answering your post earlier.  I am spending less and less time on this bulletin board for the sake of my emotional well-being.  Being involved in the Assembly and subsequently leaving was very difficult on me, and I hate to re-hash old memories.

I, like Brent has said, have a problem with being sarcastic, and that sarcasm that hinder people from truly seeing the truth.  That is what I am sorry for.

I'd like to talk to you more, but not on this thing! ;D

Call me-I'll IM my phone number to you, okey dokey?

EuEu

OK!

I am going to answer these questions.  They should have been answered sooner, by someone else, but the time has come.

Is DG excommunicated?  Not formally, but this is only a formality, and they realize it.

George and Betty were excommunicated in Fullerton.  For all of the issues that you are aware of, especially the sexual ones.  Do you really want the names of his victims?  I will never disclose their names on this website.

Immoral and unseemly behavior means many things, all of which are wicked and evil.  Think Bill Clinton.

The decision was unanimous, and all of the Fullerton leadership, elders and FTW's stepped down, simultaneously.

The facts about George's past are this:

He was booted from more than one church for the identical reasons I have listed above.  His story about, "Heavenly Vision," is pure BS.  It is a lie, and it is evil.  George hasn't changed, he is still an adulterous man, even as he was before he started his Assembly.

Dear Friends, we have all followed a thoroughly wicked man, and were totally duped into serving his "house," instead the Jesus Christ.  That is called idolatry.

We all were/are idolators!

We have to repent of many things, but this is the big one.

Brent

Ugh.

I forgot a question on the first post.  Do Judy & Rachel need help defraying legal expenses?  Perhaps we could open a bank acct where people could send money for that?

Ugh.  Biiig sigh.  Fighting tears.

Amen Mr. Editor (I mean Brent!)

And it will take time. Unlearning behavior takes time. God had to put me on the shelf for about three years before I was ready to begin to involve myself actively in teaching and directing at the church I attended.

Keep asking the questions and be free to openly challenge things. Its time for the light to shine forth once and for all!

Best wishes to all of you, Paris

Hi Jack, Lord keep you as you continue to press for the truth to come forth.

Brent, thanks for the exhortation for all of us to press those who need to be pressed on the issue we need to have answered.  Lord has truely used you and others to get the ball rolling.

Lastly, Jack it is said to see that you are getting the same old answers to questions like we all would get before (either nothing said, denial, or counterattacks made).

Like it has been said, New Wine, old wine skin, but I know God will get what he wants PERIOD, therefore my hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteous.

Lord Bless,
G

Hey Christine! Eulaha! Eric! Arthur!!

Ok, long post. I, as much as anyone else, am free, and want to say I know alot of us got hurt in this who shindig, and I praise God has done something to correct everything. I believe now is the time of healing and accountability. But I want to catch up all the things to encourage you all.

Arthur - man, I missed this guy. He was my roomate, workmate on website and he and I had great discussion of Christ. Arthur I still remember the money you let me borrow for me first car! Thank you brother! I just sold it and it now has 240,000 miles and still going! Congrads on being a dad!!! Yeh Bro!

Eric - man, all I can say you made me laugh. Shelia is a wonderwoman...all your kids..seeing them was sooooo good.

Christina V - Hi girl!!! Send me an email when you can and update me on your life!!! I missed you too!!!

Brent - The Aragorn in all this...thank you. Enuff said.

Eulaha - I missed you too. I remembered Eulaha sucked it up at a conference and really came through cooking in the kitchen. Gurrrl, you got spunk. I know you were hurting but what a servant she was!!! You go gurrrl!!

***
Lastly, I know alot of us are searching our hearts but let's remember the things that CANNOT BE TAKEN away by man's sin or the disillusionment of this life. We have things in Christ that neither thief, nor robbers can take away. It's the ABC's of Christ.


ABC's of what we have in Christ

A - We're Accepted by Christ
B - We're Blessed by Christ
C- We're Chosen in Christ
D- We've been Delivered by Christ
E- We're Exalted in Him
F- We have his Forgiveness
G- We have his Grace
H- We have his Hope
I- We have an Inheritance
J- We have Justice in Christ
K- We're Kept by him
L- We're Loved by him
M- We have Mercy
N- We've been brought Near
O- We're made One
P- We have his Peace
Q- We're Quickened by his spirit
R- We've been Redeemed
S- We have his Salvation
T- We are Triumphant
U- We are United in him
V- We have his Victory
X, Y, Z - See you on the other side to find out what this and a million other things that will be seen.

Hi Gordon,

Great post do register and become a regular!

Talk to you soon... Paris Templin

Hey Gordon!  

Thanks for the kind words bro, and thanks for reminding us about some of the good things in life.
I'll be talking to you in person, just some things I need to so first.

Arthur

Paris - congrads on the married life.

Arthur, look forward to lunch and talking to you. I missed you. You and I talked like we were astronauts on some far universe about what the other side will hold for us. AND THAT ugly mouse! How did you EVER USE THAT THING!!!??? UGH!!!!!

Well, I won't post much. Life is busy and such, but I wanted to say, I MISSED YOU ALL, LUV YOU ALL....and let's keep our eyes on Christ because in the scheme of things, there might be a war coming and boy, you THINK your world is going upside down...

"Consider Him, who endured such hostility in the hands of sinner, lest your souls become weary or discouraged."

Jack, please post your e-mail address.
Thanks,
An old friend

Gordon,

I so appreciate the fact that you have responded on this site.  Candor is what is needed at this hour.

Brent has stated "This is no longer my job, exposing.  You all must obey eph 5:8-14 on your own, in person, with the people in your sphere.  You can't look to me to do it, it is your RESPONSIBILITY!!!"  Brent has passed the baton to us now.  We must take responsibility to expose in person, and (I believe) on this site.  Have you read "The Code of Silence"?  One effect of this tactic is to force silence by saying that the internet is not "the appropriate place to discuss this".  Are all the posts written with just the right "spirit"?  Maybe not, but let's not make people an offender for a word or strain at gnats.  The gross darkness of manipulation in the assemblies is of far, far, far greater concern to God than sarcasm.  People all over the world are seeing this thing unfold right before their eyes and it NEEDS to happen.

Eulehah has been engrossed in this for so long, she no longer needs to have the truth blaring right in front of her eyes.  She gets it.  She, as an adult, is FREE to choose not to look at this site.  Nobody is forcing her to come here (or to stay away, for that matter).

No leading brother ever told me I was gossiping when I finked on people for stuff like watching R-rated movies, etc.  In fact, long ago I finked on Brent for watching one such movie.  Boy, did I feel spiritual.  I was "standing for the Lord".  But, when you expose the darkness of the leadership's tactics on the web, the axe comes down in the form of a 20-minute lecture.

I totally agree with Brent.  They did repent last weekend of what they saw.  I'm not saying that their repentance isn't real.  I am saying that we need to help then CONTINUE repenting by showing them their error.  They don't see it all, just like the rest of us.  The web is just such a place to discuss this now.  I have not caused any hurt by my posts.  It is the abuse, lies, cover-ups, manipulation and slander tactics that have caused such pain and suffering.  Like Brent said, they were/are deceived, and are just beginning to unlearn these ways of thinking that have been engrained into them.  Brent is not the Savior here.  God has used him, but only the Lord can truly heal.  The Lord wants every joint to supply, and this is my contribution.

For the present, I plan to stay in the assembly in SLO to shine the light of truth.  If I am harrassed by leadership, you will all know.  I know this will be a huge battle, but many will be liberated!

Basking in His love and liberty,
Jack
(off to lunch with Corey to discuss how we will stand here in SLO)

Thanks for the call last night Jack,

Keep it up. The fear will dissapate as others see that really at opur core most of us who have left would like nothing better than to be reconciled with our brethern.

Please keep passing inforamtion to them and posting things that are happening.

As I said last night please feel free to pass my contact information onto others there. I would love to talk to my old friends and roomates (and others!).

Thanks Paris
650.508.0877

PS Jack do add your email to your profile. Or get a yahoo account for it. It's a great way for others to contact and say hello if they feal posting is something they aren't ready for.  MPT

Brent----

Thanks for clarifying things a bit in your post concerning
George and his sins. The whole thing is so disturbing and
sad. But do you think George will do the same thing he has done before and attempt to start another Assembly some-where else? Do you think any of the LB's who stepped down would actually follow him if he did? I guess there's really no answer to this--I just wondered whether anyone else had thought about that possible scenario. This whole thing has been almost surrealistic to me--I was on the Rick Ross sight when this website was being created, and in such a short time the Lord has done a massive cleaning of house.The Lord has really used you Brent and everyone else who has contributed to this site. God bless you all.

--Joe

HI Joe

George is finished.  Period.

I worry about several of his followers and what they might do, but then I remind myself that these men are all weak, and are NOT leaders.  They might be tempted to more mischief, if they had a strong leader to tell them what to do, but that seems to be lacking at present.

Unfortunately, when you study cult stories, many ex-cult members, get out only to join another cult.  IE, out of the occult and into Watchtower, or Oneness Pentecostal, etc.  In this case, where we are not talking about a cult, but about Christians,  we must pray that people don't leave one abusive church only to join another.

There are going to be some tragic stories, however, there are going to be some wonderful demonstrations of God's grace as well.  The battle right now is not against George, but against the teachings he drilled into his servants.

When you hear this statement, from a newly delivered Assembly person, be aware that the person saying it is telling you that they are in the dark:

"I don't regret a single minute.  The Lord got such depth in my walk with Him, and I have learned so much."

HOGWASH!

Legalism, especially the kind handed down from a Jezebel and her husband, does not and never will bring forth maturity in a believer.  God has gotten a great deliverance in a people who view themselves as having a deeper walk than most other Christians.  

Real deliverance has begun, but it must progress to the point where the people rightly judge themselves.  At the root of this right judgement is the realization that:

All of us WERE/ARE IDOLATORS!!

Did you all hear this?  We were/are not spiritually mature people!!  We followed and served a man, in spite of the fact that our consciences told us that something was wrong.  This is not what mature Christians do.

Does anyone understand this?

Brent

Amen Brent, even though you did not say can I get a witness!

.........

I have stated before, I have been raised an AK.  I do not regret what has come out of my time in that gathering, and in it was where i first got serious in my life before Him.

I have total peace before God in staying with the assembly, and even more so in my life dedicated to Him.  If it was through this gathering that i learned the importance of what He has called us to, and while in it i accepted Christ, how can i possibly say that i regretted it?

The comment was also made about people "rightly judging themselves".  We do not know our hearts, and even less so do we know our Brother's.  I have personally seen God work in my life, and i have feel his peace and love abiding with me.  Is this all fake?  Is this something that a worldy man's sin will cancel out?

 Leave it to the Lord to guide each Man, and just settle in His leading and peace.  

Where did the money go?

Well, I think we just had the quote wrong each sunday --

"It was used in the work here and to buy a broad"

If you want more info on that last post, check out:

http://www.geftakysassembly.com/bb/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=143;start=0 (http://www.geftakysassembly.com/bb/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=143;start=0)

LOL!!!   ;D  Yeah, that's a more accurate description of where the money went.

Guys, these are not hookers.  They are your sisters who were victimized.  Clever pun.  Show some sensitivity.  

Hi Everyone,

So many names that bring back memories.....

So if everyone is repenting (leading brothers). How come no one has called me to apologize? I was called a liar by Jeff and so far he hasn't called to apologize. I'm confused by this repenting business in the SLO assembly. If you sin against your brother or sister  by making false accusations against them don't you have to make it right with them? Isn't that what repentance is all about?  I know it has been two years since I left but I did hear the bad things that the LB's said about me. Since it wasn't true do I get an apology? If someone is going to hold the LB's of the SLO assembly to accountability then let's start with every person that stood outside the Sand's Motel that night to hear George's repentace but were turned away. Start with us! Make it right with me!

Heide C. Johnson

Hi Heidi,

I was in Jeff's home when he received your email.  He called all the young brothers who were in his home together and said, "We just received this email.  It is defiling and full of lies!  This is a wicked woman!"  We were never allowed to see the email. I read it shortly after I left the group.  All it stated was how it was wrong for the leadership to cover up David's abuse.   How about them apples.
Yeah, I'd say you are owed an apology.

And I remember telling him, "Jeff, you're still going to be a Christian to her, even though she may have wronged you, right, and seek reconcilation and forgive her?"  (I didn't know at the time that you hadn't wronged him at all.)  He looked at me dumbfounded and said yes, but this was terrible what she wrote and then continued on that speil.  Funny, now that we're on the other side of it, I guess I should take my own advice, if they truly are repentant.

Arthur

core issue . . . .  IDOLATRY

Idolatry...Putting a man where he does not belong, in a place where only God can be.  

People, all the problems reviewed in this forum stems from following a man.

FOLLOWING a man!  Following a MAN!  Following a Man!

God was compelled to throw down that beast as an absolute disgusting fraud.  

If any long term adult participant can say after their years in the assemblies...NO, NOT ME, I WASN'T INVOLVED IN IDOLATRY, I WAS WHOLEY FOLLOWING THE LORD. You're kidding yourselves dear believer.  

If you woman say, I was just following my husband, then I say you were a horrible helper! Weep for your sins. Don't hide behind your husbands.  We've sinned ladies. You've sinned.  We've sown to the wind and now we are reaping a whirlwind.

Men don't hide behind your leaders.  

And, leaders you will give an account of your stewardship to the Almighty God and you have all been found wanting.  A leader that delivered the saints' very hearts and monies to that fraud is not blameless. You may have a name as leaders, but you have lost your charge over God's flock.  You have been found unfaithful, inadequate. And, repentence can't ever restore your place as a leader of God's flock. You're done. All of you.

It's idolatry sweet saints.  We need to repent.  Don't point fingers dear victims, the owner of the hand and the arm of those trembling pointing fingers is the idolater.  Get right with God yourselves. Repent yourself.

Woe to us...sin...transgression.  What horrible bile.  Woe! Woe to us. God is judging His house and He's not partial to any.

People if we want a clean start, let's clean out the foul, festering past of our IDOLATRY! Repent...Get down, get ugly, lose your dignity and repent.

For everyone trying to sort out their problems, sort out their hurts and understand their injuries - Yes, you were hurt! Yes you were a victim!  Yes, you were wronged!   However, you were worse.  You were an idolater.  An idolater!  Leadership was the priesthood, but we who tolerated this awful beast of man, who paid the idol's tributes in the form of our monies we worshiped the beast. Compliance was worship.

Don't blame the assembly leadership. Look to yourself.  Sure leadership turned a blind eye from injustice.  Yes, they caved into pressure for fear of man.  They'll be judged. But dear saint, can't you see that you and they were idolaters together? Shame on everyone that this site was needed to FORCE others into disciplining this man.

How did this man go 33 years without the beast being renounced?  How?!  How?!

It's a sad world that people need a big-stick.  Let's not pick on the editor of this site, dear saints. But, many will say - "But, we don't like the way he does it."  Well, that's just too bad.  It's the stick that God used; he's getting persecuted by some for being too harsh. He's getting slammed on another site for being an assembly apologist and lackey.  

As an outsider let me say it is my opinion that if this site hadn't happened that great idol would still be running around the world, still reeking havoc.  Does anyone doubt that?!  We need to repent of Idolatry dear Christians or the stick will just get bigger and I'm not talking about the Web site.  The Judgment Seat of God will make this Web site look a like vacuous whisper in a dark abandoned mine.  Folks NOW is the time to come totally clean...All of us.  As we publish our wounds, our hurts, our sordid histories...The question - Have you repented of your idolatry.

You exchanged your freedom in worshipping the creator of the earth to defer to a two-footed fraud. Not only was this man an idol, he was horrible and disgusting, too.  Shame on all of us.

Dear saints and people of God.  Now is the day to get right with God and men.  Seek God and find him while he's available and there is still light.

Current and former leadership get right for idolatrously inspired abuse of your fellow creatures.

Current and former assembly believers:  Get right for being so idolatrously intimidated by man that you'd allow yourselves to be so horribly abused by your fellow creatures.

Fear of man is a trap.

May God have mercy on all of us.

Hi Chuck, can I throw this thought out (nevermind I will anyway).

Yes, IDOLATRY. but for some not necessarily a MAN but a system.  You will say but the Man was the system.  To most I might say yes, but for others, they followed the system.  No matter what man may have been up there they would have cared less, it the system that one them.

Example, most of my LDS friends follow the system if you know what I mean.  They like some us said look how nice the kids behave, look at the low divorce rate, etc., I want that for me, so I buy into the system.

You can even it see it, now in how some places are going to stay together,  this system catered to people who were of a DEPENDENT Mind set, hence why leaving is so hard.  We are in the world but not of it is what the word says, but we so sheltered ourselves from the world, that system took us out of it as much as could be possible.

Last, as you can tell I did not follow George, why because he was too high for me to reach, and I did not feel like kissing tail to get there, so I followed the system.  From the get go Chapter Summary wooed me (oh yeah chapter summary is nice, but there are other good ways to study), I also was blown away by the hospitality.  What I saw was a Christian group that was like LDS and other cults in going out (door to door, etc.), and I fell in love with the system.  My first time hearing George was at the Spring Seminar 89 A NEW COMMANDMENT, I thought he was ok, but like every seminar that followed I just went, those three-four days were not looked foward too, and the times of discussion afterword.  In fact when the "rumors" were going around mid-90s that Dan, Tim, and others might do these I so rejoiced.

I can go on example after example that I would have never worn a concert like T-shirt with George's face on it, the only and I mean ONLY times I read any of his books where our home made us go through them together.

Lord Bless,
G

Dear Jack,

Forgive me for not posting sooner.  I can't imagine what you're going through right now.  You are asking good questions and you are owed answers.  The last meeting with the LBs Jeff is speaking of took place in March, 2002.  I've searched my soul and I can't remember saying that I was satisfied with leadership's explanation as to how they dealt with David's sin.  I do remember saying something about "going too far down that path."  I was probably speaking of something else.  

I do remember that at the end of the meeting I was asked not to speak evil of Jeff or Roberto and not to put anything on the internet.  I remember saying that I wouldn't unless someone approached me and asked me questions (Code of Silence).  Nobody did (Code of Silence).  I thought I was being a good boy and doing the right thing.  Now I see and confess it was cowardice.  Please forgive me.  Much later I repented and called both Jeff and Roberto and told them that what I did was wrong.  

e-mail me at robkaz2@netzero.net if you want to talk.

Your bro, Rob K.

Fear of Man is idolatry.

Joe was afraid of Bob, who was afraid of John who was afraid of George.

Dale was afraid of Bill, who was of afraid of Dan , who was afraid of George.

Mary was afraid of Allen, who was afraid of Mike, who was afraid of George.

Joe, Dale, and Allen = Idolatry Service to George.

Blessings and may everyone find the grace of God to repent for following that fraud and his minnions.

Grace, Peace, and Hope...Chuck Vanasse

Dear Chuck

My name is Aaron Russo.  I lived with Jeff Lehmkuhl for 6 months and was in fellowship in the assembly in SLO for about 1 year.  I then moved Fullerton and then Riverside where I eventually was a leading brother.  I left the assembly about a year`and a half ago because God clearly led me to another place of fellowship.  I wanted to comment on your most recent post.  First of all, I NEVER WORSHIPPED BROTHER GEORGE.  It is not reasonable to say that everybody who was in the assemblies did practice idolatry by being involved in his (George's) ministry.  TO say that everybody who ever followed or agreed with anything he said was an idolater is a gross over generalization.  I especially take exception to your comment about wives who practiced idolatry by following their husbands.  THe hidden and now revealed sin of George Geftakys does not automatically make every man and woman who ever got saved or served God in his ministry an idolater.  You must not categorize people in the same way George did.  Just as not everybody outside the assembly was "worldly"  so now not everybody who was ever in the assembly was or is an idolater.  Please consider these things.


In Christ


Aaron Russo

Aaron, I will consider it, many thanks.  Broad stroking is a problem of mine, pray for me....

You took the greatest exception to my comment on wives.  Wives must be lead by their husbands, however, part of being a good helper is to warn husbands when trouble looms, that is my point.  Woman can't  hide behind their husbands, in this they have a charge to be a help-mate.  I believe God has given woman a unique ability to woman to sense when a family is moving into danger.  Their sirens must sound, not be brow beaten into silence.

It's difficult to parse guilt.  That's why I said adults with years of service in the assembly have all been complicit.

Fear of man is a trap and it is idolatry.  Passive acceptance of a despot is "enablement"...If your conscience is clear, I believe you.

Forgive me if you feel the overview did not apply to yourself. Some people are special, and perhaps you are one of those rare individuals.

Even as an outsider with family a family of 50 split right down the middle for 25 years - I think in many ways I was an enabler and guilty of supporting idolatry.  My gifts run similar to Brent's and I did nothing.
I'm culpable.  

I'm glad you're not...Stay involved we need men of goodwill such as yourself.

Thanks, Aaron...Grace to you.
 

Hello Chuck, Aaron, and everyone else.

for what it is worth, I find myself in total agreement with Chuck.  There are a very few special cases, but the majority of us are complicit, if for no other reason than we gave our money!

Think about it, we put our money in the box, and we knew that it all went to Fullerton.  We also knew that what happened after that was a secret.  On top of this, many of us are saying,  "I always had a problem with George, he is just a man.  I never followed a man, etc."  

Well, it was one man's idea to take all the money and keep it secret.  If you gave him money, you followed his plan.

I do know of a few rare cases that never tithed.
It's Idolatry, guys.  I'm embarassed.

Brent

Greetings, Heidie!

It was very nice to see you the other day!  Thanks for stopping by.   I agree that you and many others are owed an apology.  I read you e-mail that you wrote when you became aware of David's dispicable abuse of Judy.  Actually, of all the people you addressed it to, I was the first to read it.  It was right on the money.  If you were called a liar or gossip, you were sinned against.  As for the leadership in SLO, I believe Danny is sincere.  All evidence around me suggests Jeff is in denial.  Perhaps the process has started, but there is a long, long, way to go.  So far, words only, and few, vague,weak ones at that.

Tom

I totally agree with Aaron.  There are possibilities other than idolatry.  Consider that maybe, just maybe, we were following Christ.

Do you think it strange that a young man who is seeking Christ obtain guidance from older, more mature Christians?
I read in the Bible that we need to obey those who are our guides and submit to them.  Since I wanted to please God, was it so strange that I do what the Bible said?  We have already studied that the word obey in that passage means "to be persuaded by", and the word submit means "to willfully place yourself under."  
Should I not have done these things?
I read in the Bible that we need to "Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart."  
Pardon me, was I not supposed to obey the Bible?

You may say, well these men weren't mature Christian men; they weren't calling on God out of a pure heart.  Yes!  Now we know, but how were we to know then?  Don't you get it? That's why such a one is described as a "wolf in sheep's clothing".  It's not just a wolf.  Any sheep would run from a wolf.  It's a wolf under disguise, undectable by the sheep.  These men preached from the Bible and lived what looked on the outside to be good lives.  It wasn't until I got to know them better that it became clear that it wasn't as it appeared.  Even then I was willing to say, well I should not expect to have perfect brethren or perfect leaders, but love them anyway.  Is there something wrong with that?

When you make friends with someone, do you normally perform a background check on them to see if they might have been an sex offender or a member of the KGB?
No, you approach friendships by extending goodwill and giving the other person the benefit of the doubt.  I gave them the benefit of the doubt, but the moment that I heard from reliable witnesses the evil deeds done by these men, it verified my suspicions that they were false and I left immediately.  

You do not know what was in my head and in my heart.  How can you say I was doing what I was doing because it was idolatry.  
Was it idolatrous to praise the Lord on Sunday?  I don't remember ever saying, "We praise you George Geftakys..." Was it idolatry to love the brethren?  Or to have a genuine concern for the lost and tell them the good news of Jesus?

Arthur

Brent I disagree.

When I put my money in the box it was because I sincerely believed that it would be used for the work of the Lord.  I simply trusted that these men were telling the truth.  Shouldn't we have a child-like faith?  You may say, yes, in God.  Then I say, yes, exactly.  We trusted that this is where God had us and these are the leaders that he gave to us.  What cause would there be for me to think that they were lying?

Chuck,

Is it your job to "parse the guilt"?  Well, it is not difficult, there are the sheep and there are the wolves.  Two totally different natures.  

Arthur

Brent, I would love to know where you the idea that giving of money is Idolatry.  

Nowhere in my bible does the Lord tell His people to give, and then be concerned with how every bit of it is use.

Taking your logic then the Lord should have condemed the women that gave all she had, because we know that the leader at that time were not the most trust worthy.  She gave because God said to give, and to give from the heart.  Also the Lord said do not let the right hand know what the left is doing.  We are also told to give freely from out hearts.  If you gave freely and from the heart you gave like this women.

The leaders of that day were doing shady things all around but still this women was commended (did she know that they were shady we do not know, we only know she gave from her heart).  It seems to me that some of you were like the other person in this story, Lord look I gave this and this so honor me.  

Correct me if I am wrong, but if you gave from the heart the Lord, saw that, and nowhere do you see he wanted you to keep a ledger personally.  God will take care of those that used it unwisely.  

Thanks Chuck, Aaron, and Brent,
     I quite agree that culpability is difficult to parse out. that is why we need the Holy Spirit and the Word of God to search our hearts, divide between soul and spirit, serving man and serving God, Mal. 3:18. It seems to me that idolatry can be either the covetousness of personal gain (Col 3:5) or the serving of an idolatrous system. Perhaps we were deceived in serving that man-centered system, deception needs to be repented of too. The making or believing a lie are both wickedness, albeit of different expressions.  
This is a time for all of us involved to get before the Living God and allow Him to ruthlessly search our hearts to change, uproot, overturn, overturn, overturn any speck of idolatry, i.e. covetousness, fear deception and to once again or maybe for the first time truly allow Jesus Christ ALONE TO BE LORD OF ALL   ::). Folks, be absolutely real with God and one another: WE HAVE SINNED, in whatever our complicity, knowledge, etc.
I also want to make a point that in our marriage, my wife is one of the best and reliable early warning systems I know of. She knows me all too well. Sometimes just intuitively, but always worthy of my complete attention. I practice medicine in an emergency room, and it is well known that a good nurse can save you from many pitfalls and disasters. She may not know the details of biochemical pathways but she (female dominated professions) has a keen sense of when a patient is going to go bad. My wife is like that and that is why I love her. This is in spite of the years of teaching about female inferiority that since Eve was deceived, all women are going to lead us down the pathway to hell. That is male idolatry! Let's remember that male and female HE created them, and our roles/identities are complementary in order to express the living God. Anyway I digressed on the topic, remember there was a reason why John, wanting us to remember the last thing he said, spoke this: Little children (gullible ones), keep yourselves form idols (human or otherwise).
Wayne

And Peaceful G, you make a great point about the motive of giving as unto the Lord and not men. Motive is everything to God. Thanks.

Peacefulg, excellent point about the widow's mite.  And continuing on with that same logic, would you say that Hannah was idolatrous because she gave her child Samuel to the priesthood and we all know what kind of man Eli was.  George is even compared to Eli in an article on this site.  Would you say Hannah was idolatrous?

And David lived with Saul and submited to him, was David idolatrous in doing that?  He even refused to kill this man of the flesh, I guess that means he totally agreed with everything Saul did and stood for.  Um...no.  What kind of logic is that?

Does anyone besides little me think that part of being a good steward of your/God's money is making sure that it is being used for His good?

I don't give money (though food, yes) to people begging on freeway offramps because common sense and statistics tell me that many of them will spend it on drugs or alcohol.  Even when their sign says "God Bless You" or "John 3:16".

I don't give money to those guys that stand outside Wal-Mart, holding coffee cans and wearing white so you will think that they are priests or some other clergy type.  I have no idea who their group is, and just because they call themselves "The Holy Order of Chosen Brethren" or whatever doesn't mean that they do anything glorifying with the money.

There are a lot of other examples of this analogy.  

I DO give money to World Vision, The Dr. Laura Foundation, Intervarsity, and the Seattle Union Gospel Mission because actual results and tangible fruit are available at my first request.  In fact, they send me this evidence on a monthly/quarterly/annually basis without even having to ask.  If I still doubted, I could drop by unannounced and see for myself.  I would be welcomed, not told that I needed to trust more and buzz off (oh, but keep giving Sister!!).

I am not saying that we (husband and I) are any better or morally/intellectually superior.  I never gave a dime to George's ministry, probably because I was never under it's spell.  If I had been, maybe I would have felt different.  But come on, think about it... isn't it responsible to make sure that God's money is being spent for God's purpose, and to hold those in charge accountable for doing so?  After all, you just gave to God's "purse".  Those who spent it are still mere men.

Many people have come to this site because they have "seen the light" and realized that they were duped.  Yet it is still hard to admit that they may have been duped in how they were convinced to steward their money.  "I gave by faith and God honors that"...but you also followed the Assembly teaching by faith...What is the difference?

Chuck and others,

Lets please be careful in accusing everyone of
idolatry.  This maybe the case for some but I know
of many saints who have followed the Lord, and
submitted to the leadership in faith to God.  I for
one have always loved the blessed Word of God
being shared, whether it was George, itenerate
brethren, or local brothers.  Not everywhere is/was
as bad as SLO and we need to consider our
accountability for blanket assumptions of God's
people in other places.

love in Christ,

Jacques :)

Karen, I am glad that you gave from your heart, and you are correct you need to be selective in who you give too.

That being said, does God tell you to give to such and such place, NO!
Does he tell you to give to the work of the Lord, Yes

Paul when he asked for collections to be taken up, he simply told the people that it was for the ministering of the saints in this location.  We do not have many examples of what else money was used for, but I ask this did they ever come to you and ask for money to pay the rent for the buildings they were meetings in, where did they the money to buy tracks.

Lastly there were times I was told do not worry about giving this week, since I had spent much on buying supplies for the campus work.  Also when I did buy supplies the brothers re-payed me from the Lord's treasury, since it was for the work of the Lord.  

I see this discussion going on and all of you make it out that the money was never used for any of the Lord's work.

Just like you cannot produce exact numbers of where went what, nowhere in the bible do we see the Lord asking for exact numbers.  These men will give an account to the Lord, the rest of the people will not, becasue the gave what the Lord put on their heart.

I for one cannot say, Hi my name is..... and I gave to the work of the Lord as He lead me, I'm therefore an Idoalter!

Lastly, not once was I ever pressured to give, if there is one thing that gets on most Christians nerves is the constant begging they hear from a lot of places.  We will not be able to do this or pay this, over and over it goes, but in the assembly rents were paid, tracks bought, food bought for outreaches, and the list goes on.  Lately on these boards I see people more quick to judge motives than actions, I also see these broad generalities being made.  I would not be suprised to see someone blame everyone for what George did.  People just like you want George and others to be accountable, you too need to be.  Maybe you gave out of Idoaltry, fine then you deal with it before the Lord, but do not drag us all down with you.  Be a Godly man and stand before God like one, because he sure is not going to listen to you drag everyone else through your mire on Judgement day.  who do YOU say I AM!

Lord Bless, and I am praying for all of us, we have much to learn, and much restoration to be made.

A concerned brother

forgive me everyone, I notice I said lastly more than once, just got going and you know how that is.   :)

OK,

Let me clear up my logic on the idea of Idolatry and money.  First of all, none of us knew what we were signing up for.  We were all sincere, and we all joined for the right reason.  Most of the people were never anything less than sincere.

However, most of us have had the experience of knowing that something was wrong, at one time or another.  If we had been there for years, we "knew," about many things, but many of us turned off our consciences, and continued serving.

Those who didn't do this "left fellowship."   Please remember that many people left, without any of these revelations.  There was no website, no Judy leaving David, no stories about George and his dalliances.  These people recognized what was going on, or were able to listen to God's voice, and they left without being hit by the big stick.

The people I am referring to in my recent posts, are the ones who watched all of this take place, and heard about David and Judy, and knew that somehow George and Betty must have known, and that others must have known, and instead of asking questions, they kept silent.

Many people have called me a liar, or a slanderer.  I am neither,  I have told you people the truth, and nothing but the truth, but at times I was too sarcastic.  I have known about George's adultery for years.  How did I find out?  Easy, I talked to people. Many people knew about it.  Yet all of you were surprised.  Why is this?  Idolatry.  You ascribed virtue and holiness to an unholy system, and served it with zeal and reverance that should only be reserved for God.  Do you know what it is like knowing that my friends are under the control of a thoroughly wicked man?  Do you know what it is like to tell the truth, and be called a liar by people who think they are "walking with The Lord?"  From my end, it is frightening, because I can see the deception, while many of you cannot.  Why?  Idolatry.

You continued to prop up a thoroughly wicked man, and gived him money, all the while thinking you did it for God!  Furthermore,  you didn't even bother to check out the facts until you were forced to do so!

The whole thing might very well have still been in place if these people weren't FORCED out into the  light.

Continuing to serve this beast, even if it is just by contributing money, is Idolatry.

I'm getting ready to go get my stick again.

Brent

Brent and others, I still do not like this money talk.

Again so what they knew, I do not know how to say this the right way, but even Christ himself knew Judas was a thief, yet the man had the bag!

Explain that to me where does that fit in your logic, hence why Christ preached give from you heart.

Lord Bless and you know I am not being bitter, just being honest and I care about you all, heck love you all!  
G

Hi Concerned,

You addressed the money issue and brought up valid points.  There was an abuse that wasn't mentioned before (to my knowledge).  When I received my mother's inheritance, I was told by some in leadership to not hold on to the mammon, but to give it to the Lord.  They told me of others who gave their inheritances to the Lord's treasury.  I was unentreatable.  An inheritance can be rather large for some.  Where was this sent?  To George's holding's outside of Fullerton?

Something to consider.

Lord bless,

Eric

Hi George

Dear brother, I am not thinking that you are bitter at all!  Sincere discussion is most welcome, and is a sign of a clear conscience.


Can't you see this?  Paul told them where the money was going!  They all knew it was going to Jerusalem, and Paul even asked the people to send it along with several of their own people!  Can't you see that this was in the light?  Just because their spending journal is not published in the ancient manuscripts, does not mean that they didn't endeavor to be honorable in the sight of God and men.  People knew how much was going, and where it was going.  No doubt they all prayed about specific needs, and had a good idea of what the money was being used for.

George did neither.  He was, and is totally secretive.  We gave an evil man time, money and adoration, and we did it in the name of God.

Many of Those that left in the past are not guilty, they left before these things came to light.  It is the current crop, who hung on, and purposefully turned away from the truth, and slandered those who spoke it, who must bear the brunt of the guilt.

[size=10]If you can't see this, then you will most definitely land right back in the Assembly, or another group exactly like it.[/size]

Brent

Just curious,

What does, "I'm thinking of getting my stick again" mean?

And I ask sincerely, because I'm a bit confused.

Best regards,

Corey

But all things are of God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ, and gave unto us the ministry of reconciliation; to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.   We are ambassadors therefore on behalf of Christ, as though God were entreating by us: we beseech you on behalf of Christ, be ye reconciled to God.  I Cor 5:18-20 ASV

Oh how I pray for the restoration of lives (my own included).
Love you all,
YBILT
George Allen

P.S. We are cllimbing Jacobs ladder, ladder............Childern of the Lord

To Jacques...

Jacques, at least a couple folks have commented about my points on idolatry from me.

If you read what I wrote it was concerning:

(1) adults

(2) that have spent years in the assemblies

(3) It was especially pointed at leaders

I  followed up that note expressing there may be exceptions (because none of us can know the hearts of men), maybe they're many exceptions.  My original statement was in the spirit that "All Cretans are liars." ...Yep, generally long-term assembly folks have practiced or have been complicit in practicing a virulent form of Idolatry. Period, end of debate.  That's why this man's fall has literally wobbled to the very core every church that he has had an association with.

I'm encouraging everyone to wake-up and start the process of moving out of denial.

If you have spent years in the assembly as an adult and were not involved in idolatry.  Consider yourself extremely blessed.  

Let's keep in-touch, Jacques (chuck@vanant.com)...What I DON'T know far exceeds what I do know.  I'm learning.  Correction feels good.

I appreciate your input, big time!

Blessings Dear Jacques!

Chuck

Consider that almost any church where the pastor/leader is exposed as a flagrant hypocrite and immoral person experiences a shake up.  THer is a church out my way in the Palm Desert area that was 12,000 members.  THe pastor had been there 12 years and was recently exposed for living in, at the very least, and unseemly manner.  It was fron page news.  In newspapers all over the county.  Members had every kind of response, just as we have now from former and current assembly members.  I agree that ANYBODY who has knowledge of the revelations of the past say 6 months and continues to "stand for and with Bro. George" is in great darkness.  I was in fellowship and then leadership for almost 12 years, but i never really knew George or even necesarily cared for his personality, but I did want to serve the Lord.  I recently received an e-mail from a former full-time worker who is still in an assembly ad he said this, " I was the Lord's servant before I met Bro. George and I will continue to be the Lord's servant in spite of all that's happened, wherever or however that might be."  Please be sensitive to the sincerity of many former and current members who are possibly questioning their faith and possibly having profound struggles of faith.  I think the struggle can lead to an even purer devotion and service to Christ.  Please do not think that I am just being defensive, I have been out of the assembly for a year and a half and I see all the same things you see, but is still love the brethren who I know are the Lord's servant regardless of the person of George Geftakys.


In Christ

Aaron

Aaron,

You say..."Please do not think that I am just being defensive, I have been out of the assembly for a year and a half and I see all the same things you see, but I still love the brethren who I know are the Lord's servant regardless of the person of George Geftakys."

I agree!  I wouldn't want you to ever stop loving anyone, Aaron...Love them more!  The issue is putting a man on a pedastal...It's wrong - period.  Not too complicated.

Blessings to you!

Jack,

I ask you to forgive me in my role in manipulating you to feel guilty about your post.

It is my determination not to go down that road of manipulation again.

Your brother,

Ray

Hey Ray

Are you still there.  It is Aaron Russo.  If you are reading this please e-mail me asap at brorusso@msn.com.  


Your bro in christ

Aaron Russo

Chuck, thanks for clearing up what you posted.

Lord Bless,
G

Bravo! Ray Dienzo!!

Rob Kazarinoff

Ray,

I forgive you.  I'm so glad you see what you do.  It is liberating.

You, as a relatively new leading brother, were being trained to rob sincere little sheep of their freewill.  You need to make sure you do not get entangled again in the bondage in which you were held.  Do whatever it takes to stay away from those who would try to convince you that you owe them or the assembly ANY loyalty.  You do not owe anyone in the assembly any explanation for your choices.  You are an adult-not a child.  You are a free man-not their slave!  If someone approaches you to try to "encourage" you to reconsider any actions of repentance you have taken, say in a VERY LOUD voice, "I am FREE to do as I please!  You are NOT my master!  I am NOT afraid of you anymore!  You will NOT manipulate me with your mind games!"  I doubt they will stay around long.  They are not used to being confronted in the light like that.  Notice I haven't gotten any answers from Jeff, Roberto or Danny regarding the questions on my first post on this thread.  Their silence is telling.

"For everyone who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.  But he who practices the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."  Jn 3:19-20

Read "The Code of Silence".  http://www.geftakysassembly.com/codeofsilence.htm (http://www.geftakysassembly.com/codeofsilence.htm) It will open your eyes even more.

Jack

Hi Ray,

Does this mean that you have left the SLO assembly?

I would like to know what part you played in my email that was sent out 2 years ago as to why I was leaving. The letter was addressed to you as well.

Heide

Heide,

As far as the e-mail you sent me about 2 years ago, I did not take it at face value. I was shocked; I could not believe that it was true. I thought that the account that Judy gave you was somehow misinterpreted or overexaggerated.

It was two years ago, therefore I don't remember actually calling people to tell them not to read it; but I was there to agree that that was the course of action to take.

Forgive me for not having the fortitude to stand up and call for a deeper investigation and for my role in trying to silence you and keeping the saints from reading the e-mail.

In light of having left the assembly, I hope to answer that in the next couple of days.


Regards
Ray

Hi Ray,

I appreciate this blanket statement, it tells me you might be on the right track. I can't help think about the things you left out. Slewing of character, false accusations. You made choices along the way. It wasn't just something that happened two years ago, there was fallout that you dealt with, unresponsibly.

I don't trust the leadership in SLO. I've seen what happens to women who have put their trust in leadership. I will acknowledge this but I want a face to face apology. For two years you and Laura have been unable to look me in the face when I have seen you at Farmer's Market for Outreach. I might not be able to see your heart but I can see your eyes.....
Heide

Jack!!

It was good talking to you a few days ago.  And I am encouraged by your boldness to stand up for what is right! WAY TO GO BRO!!! ;D

Hello Heide, good to see you again!  How are the puppies?

Eu

Dear freinds,

I am determined to get on with my life and opening myself for
you to address anything in my life that I may have caused offence.

I am willing to get in touch and make things right if anything needs to
be made right. You may email me at gwbiglife@yahoo.com.  

This past Sunday, God plunged His hands into my soul at a Sunday
meeting at Calvary Chapel, which the entire SLO church went to  and
I cried my tears, pain, and failures away and came away a different
man. The joy and love for God's word is back and God is giving me
grace to move past this episode to a new journey.



Praying for you all,

Gordon

Awesome Gordon!   :) :) :D ;D ;D 8) 8) ;) :) :) :D

Yes,  The Lord did visit us!  You are free!  Leap over the fence and run to green pastures!

Brent

Gordon,
I am so happy for you!  I agree with Brent-you are FREE in Christ!  Find those green pastures and be fed and blessed!  The Lord is doing a great work!

Gordon,
I am so happy for you!  I agree with Brent-you are FREE in Christ!  Find those green pastures and be fed and blessed!  The Lord is doing a great work!

 ;D :D ::) :P

Thanks Eu, and Brent.

Sorry I ruined your shirt Brent with my tears, and snot.

I cried like a seven year old AND RIGHT THERE ON THE SPOT Sunday it was very CLEAR, but this Friday is a new start. I'm attending a class on the topic of grace with a co-worker and will be making the start of a new life -- and I am in transitional stage, but this is a new start!  When God does a miracle he does it in an incredible manner: my tears, fears, my sin, my thinking, my pain were all taken away at once. I'm singing and thinking about Jesus.

I will say this, I'm glad I went through this, it makes me appreciate alot of things more and I've learned alot and hopefully I can bear witness God can remove the wickedness in any church in the world.
 

Gordon,

Welcome to the free world!  It's much better outside the assylum walls, isn't it?

Since Friday I've been taking a break with my family in Sacramento.  I'll be back in SLO later this week.


Heide, Aaron & Tanya,

Can we get together soon?  I'd love to see you guys.


Brian Tucker,

Forgive me for the way I shunned you in San Clemente.  I didn't even have the courage to confront you personally.  Then again, if I had I would have said hurtful things I would now regret.  Anyway, my family says hi to you and your wife.

Jack

I want everyone to be aware that Ray and Laura did try and make things right with me. I have enclosed a copy of the letter that I sent to them because I got to thinking about meeting with them and it would be one thing if what Ray had done he did himself. I hope that makes sense... Since he was acting as a Leading Brother I feel that there is a shared responsibility in his actions.

**Hi Ray & Laura,

I've been thinking about this whole thing. Ray, you offended me in the role of a Leading Brother. You stood by and slandered me corporately. What I really want is for you to read the letter of what I wrote when I left out loud at an assembly meeting. I want the assembly in SLO to know that I didn't lie, I didn't overexaggerate a story, I didn't make anything up, I wasn't decietful or full of bitterness. I want you to look those sheep in the eyes and explain how you could use slander as a means to silence someone. I want you to acknowledge that what happened to Judy was real.

Meeting you and Laura face to face isn't the way to handle something that once was done in public. I appreciate you being willing to oblige. If Jeff is sincere in repenting perhaps this is something you both can work on.

I am going to post this to the website so others know what is going on.

Sincerely,
Heide**

So now you are up to speed on what is happening and thanks for all the emails and your thoughts!

jack,

absolutely no hard feelings on my side, and there never were. complete forgiveness. i am so glad to see you freeing yourself!


greetings back to them! you have a wonderful family.  :)

Below is an email I received today from a brother in SLO.

"Hello brother and sisters:

Just to inform you that the prayer meeting will be this Thursday at the
Edwards home.  Prayer Meeting for next week will be on Tuesday. Please
contact Jeff Lehmkuhl for any additional questions you might have
regarding the Prayer Meeting this week.

Lord Bless You,

__________"

I have more questions for the SLO leaders now (Ray, in light of Heide's recent posts on this thread, you are no longer off the hook regarding my initial questions.  I know this is not easy for you, but I want to help you.  It's a process.  The darkness of secrecy permeates the assembly culture, so the light that this forum provides is a good thing).

1)  Have you (the leaders in SLO) stepped down?  If not, why?  Even the leaders in Fullerton stepped down.  Much of David's abuse occured right here in SLO.

2)  Has David been excommunicated?  If not, why?

3)  Have the saints in SLO been allowed to discuss articles such as "The Code of Silence" in the meetings?  A new beginning will not be possible without showing the sheep how to recognize the Geftakian manipulation tactics that you have been taught.

Safe in the arms of Jesus,
Jack

The time has come.  I'd like to take this opportunity to give "further notice" that I am willing to take phone calls again from those who are still in the assemblies (with the exception of the former leaders).  I just needed to clear my head a little.  If I sense that something that is said on the phone needs to be posted, I'll do that.  I'm free from the system, but I'm not rejecting my friends.  I have noticed throughout the years that when people left, they were always kind to me.  I intend to do the same.

Below is my contact information.

Jack Hutchinson
hutchinsonjack@hotmail.com

Brent,

Can you give everyone here an update on the status on SLO and the progress of the former leaders regarding their clearing?  It's been 2 weeks since my last meeting in the assembly.