AssemblyBoard

 :-[ ???My apologies. I should have started a new topic with my last post. So here it is I think. :-[

Hi, Sebastian.   :)

Being a young woman myself, I am well aware of the moves that older men make on us, thinking they are being smooth or subtle.  I can tell you that if a man tried to get me to platonically massage any part of him (and I WASN'T a massage therapist or other similar), I would either firmly reject him or tell him off.  If this man happened to be a pastor (or worse, a pastor who fancies himself as God's right hand man and above reproach), my words and contempt for him would be far stronger because of his position of authority and trust.  So...I probably don't have to tell you this, but it sounds as though GG was abusing his authority to step WAY out of line.  It just seems to kind of fit with all the other behavior, though.  If he needed a massage, the appropriate thing to do in order to avoid the appearance of evil would be to hire a male MT.  However...when you are the boss and no one dare question you...who cares about appearances?

 :o ::) :-X :-[ :'(

PS-I forgot to add this thought to my last post:  The fact that George was asking, "does this bother you sister?" or whatever indicates that he knew that there was something to be bothered about!  I don't know him, but I do know men who are that type that hate women (either subconsciously or otherwise), and they seem to enjoy making us uncomfortable on purpose.  ::)

Karen and Sebastian:

I could not agree more with Karen's observations.  I have a TON of information on GG's background, before he began the Assembly.  It is chock full of multiple incidents of, shall we say, pecadillos and "marriage difficulties."

I am being very careful what I am saying here, notice that I didn't make a direct accusation.  I need to find the time to contact 2 more sources, and obtain signed Affadavits from 4 people before I publicly tell the story of the real GG.

There is nothing wrong with hand and foot massage.  but there is something wrong with unskilled young females being chosen to do it, when you preach about avoiding the appearance of evil, and make everyone else live under the most stringent rules designed to separate the sexes, because they can't control themselves.

I think there is some psychological term for all this, but my take on it is that every area that GG makes a big deal, and really lays down the law, is an area where he is absolutely guilty himself.

Speaking hypothetically, if GG, or a person like him, had a problem with money....then in order to assuage their guilt they might try to get 400 followers who never get into debt.  Sound familiar?

A person can apply this in other area as well....Massage perhaps.

Here's a funny fact, George's new secretary is long and blonde, a former professional ballerina.  I am not aware of her typing, dictation, computer, or accounting skills, but i am sure an ex-dancer would be highly trained in all of these areas.

Brent

Hello:
After I became privy to the private massage-see "Avoiding the Appearance of Evil" under George's So-Called Books- I ran into another episode involving a (married) leading brother. One day I entered the kitchen of a Brothers House
where this LB and single sister lived. She was giving him a shoulder massage. I must have had a funny look on my face-deja vu?- because they responded with expressions that showed me that they had a bad conscience about it. I quickly excused myself. Now I am not a prude, and I really don't believe there was any other intention behind this. I knew both of them pretty well; but the standard in the homes regarding this type of behavior was well-known, or so I thought. This sister was not trained as a masseuse, and the LB had a wife who could have done at least as good a job. Why didn't she do it then?
The point I'm getting to is this-did George's personal behavior(see the article refered to earlier) as "Servant of God Who is to be Emulated" have anything to do with this?
Put simply , George did this so it must be acceptable.... He is a godly man, so it's only reasonable that a wrong conclusion couldn't be drawn from this, right?
The conclusion I wish to draw from this is that the almost god-like status of the leaders (under George) has skewed their judgement of right and wrong and of what is an abuse of authority or position. The leadership is approaching almost total dependence on George to model for them what a servant of God is. How sad!

Hello Sebastian

You have excellent insight.  George has indeed reproduced himself, (and Betty also) in many of his followers, especially the the chief leaders and workers.  They model themselves after him, and were able to be ensnared by him, because they have similiar weaknesses.  

What we are going to find out is that this sort of thing is much more prevalent than many would like to believe. Think about it, Why else would they have such draconian rules regarding contact between men and women?  Perhaps because they know how weak they are, and project that onto others.

BTW, please register so I can send you a private message.

Brent

Hi Everyone,

Brent, when you mentioned about the chief leaders and workers modeling themselves after GG because they have similar "character traits", it reminds me of those I've known.  Let's see...those good examples we were to follow.  They were impatient, very temperamental, condescending, very like George in certain ways.  ::)  In hindsight, I saw those traits come out under times of stress and whenever the "testimony" was threatened.  These traits came out whenever their ministry or decisions was questioned.

Of course, "we are all still learning."  I don't know of any massages that went on in the valley.  But I do remember when my wife and I spent the night at TG's house prior to leaving on the Seattle L.E.S. Team.  I saw two single sisters in a room with him, massaging his hands and feet.  I thought it was so odd at the time, but I was afraid to say anything.  I wondered, at the time, what the sister's were thinking.  Did they offer or were they told to comply?

When I had sister's in my house, then I understood.  I found the sisters were so indoctrinated that if I wanted to, I could ask for anything and get it.  This really bothered me because the sisters even expected me to lead in this harsh way.  It took me 2 years to show them how their thinking was wrong in minor ways.  I never was given the five years I thought it would take to show them the error of their thinking on a bigger scale.

There's more of this.  Especially how a LB told me to deal with issues in the home.  One of the sisters has since told me, she could tell when I listened to the Lord and when I listened to a certain LB.

Eric

I have an interesting story to relate regarding massage.  I have a bad back :( (two car accidents) and as a birthday gift, my sister paid for a professional masseuse to give me a massage  :) (a woman-BTW).  The top dog in our assembly found out about it and he gave my husband a lashing (at the Starbucks Confessional).  It seems that there is a double standard out there concerning massages. ;)  What is ok for the goose is not ok for the gander!  Doesn’t surprise me!  Does it surprise anyone else?

Dear webmaster/editor:
I can't access my PM, nor can I use them. If it warrants the effort on your end can you send the Pm to:

sebastianandrew@hotmail.com (http://sebastianandrew@hotmail.com)

I will just stay under guest for the time being.
Sebastian Andrew

Dear webmaster/editor:

I don't think this is where you post this type of message, but since Sebastian had a similar problem (I think Rachel, as well) I thought I would make it easier to see it in the same place.  

When you first come to the bulletin board and sign in you are welcomed.  However, numerous times, upon successfully signing in, I attempt to access the Member's Registration List or go to a new page and want to post and I am no longer signed in but recognized simply as a guest.

Could you clue us neophyte computer people in as to what the problem is????? ???

Hello Everyone!

I apologize for you guys getting logged out! I haven't figured out who to blame yet, but it will probably be microsoft, or someone like that. It is certainly not OUR fault.  ::)

However, it is easy to fix. Just RELOG, at the top of the page, hit relog, and type in your info.  I have not gotten bumped after a relog, but if it happens, relog again!

We are working on it, but it is not an easy fix, it has to do with something on the host server....maybe it can be their fault ;D

Anyway, you will find all of your private messages there.

Happy Thanksgiving.  God is Good, and His Mercy endures forever!

editor

Hello:
A club advisor was contacted about a campus bible study with the generic-sounding name Bible Study Club. Among the questions asked was group affiliation-where did they originate, the name of the church/ministry, are they part of a larger group, et cetera. The advisor said that they were a student-led group by local evangelicals. After the second correspondence, when asked directly if this was part of the Geftakys ministry, she affirmed that it was. It turns out that she had met TG and knew about GG, and that she worked with the assembly occasionally on campus. Some relevant information and references were given for her consideration.
For the sake of clarity I will mention here that she is not(at least yet) an assembly member, and is a worker for a major well-known evangelical organization that in other places-CA-doesn't recommend anyone attend the assembly(or their studies) due to "cultic tendencies on a sociological level." This, among other things, was pointed out to her. A faculty advisor is necessary on this campus to have recognized club status; and she is, by her role as advisor, giving the assembly the opportunity to work on campus there. This was pointed out to some of her higher-ups.
The reader may have noticed that she had to be asked directly about the group affiliation, almost as if she didn't want to divulge it unless absolutely necessary. There are other instances where assembly campus workers were contacted in the same fashion-same questions,and so on-and wouldn't reveal their affiliation unless asked directly if they were a Geftakys ministry outreach. Sometimes they would say "...we are like Calvary Chapel...." [shadow=red,left,300]Don't shoot me, I'm only the piano player.TEXT[/shadow] They are misleading others who in good faith ask fair questions. One is reminded of the "heavenly deception" doctrine of the Unification Church(MOONIES) where the adherant is told that lying to get donations, other adherants, etc. is O.K. because the world is so messed up that lying to defeat Satan is noble. Is this an example of a persecution complex that the assembly has? Are the leaders telling the campus workers to cover up who they really are? I believe I know why George doesn't want his name on the ministry(because he has too much past history to cover up). How do the saints rationalize- to themselves- this cover-up I wonder?
As far as the faculty advisor mentioned earlier a couple of things: I tried to gently warn her w/o any name-calling or exaggerated accusations. I believe she is being used, is probably getting a lot of warm attention like all of us did at the early stage of our involvement, and may be close to joining up. Anyone with any close contacts with this major Christian organization-read between the lines-and would like to get involved in this one please e-mail(no PMs) me for more information. I look forward to others observations, input, comments.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING
"and skip the meeting if it interferes with family gathering" ( I liked that one).
Sebastian Andrew

The "saints"on campus are in either of two categories:

1.) Those who are new and know nothing and are serving in sincere ignorance
2.) Those who, over the years, have seared their concience to the point where they no longer have the capactiy to rationalize anything.  These people tell blatant lies as a matter of course, on a daily basis.  I can provide tons of documentation to back up that claim, if what you are reading on the websites is not enough.

So, there is no need to rationalize.  Not just anyone can head up a campus "work."

Brent

It has been a long time since I have been around.  I want to know one thing,

why has it taken so long for someone to speak up about this.  there must be hundreds (thousands) of people who visited and bolted, why has there been silence since the last 20 years.

I gather from the main website that Steve Iron's left a decade ago.  Was this without effect?  Are people being extorted/threatened?

What gives?

Oh where to begin.  People have spoken up for decades.  When you read the letters of people who left in the past you see the problems and observations were the same.

The primary obstacle in the past was getting the information out there.  When the Irons left they tried to send information by mail but it was ineffective for a number of reasons.  It was clumsy trying to get the information to so many people.  

Also as you can tell from posts, the assembly is very good at damage control.  When a person with potientially damaging information is starting to question the assembly leadership starts to make little comments about that person "struggling".  Then as the person gets closer to making a break the leadership starts to publicly shame that person.  They may start to take "responsibilities" away from that person and warn people away from asking that persons advice or getting to close.  When the person finally leaves, they are slandered both by GG and by the leadership in the meetings and worker's meetings.  Past failures or sins of that person will be brought up and in many cases exaggerated for effect.  It will be either implied or stated that the person has gone back to his or her sinful ways.  If the person is extremely dangerous to the assembly they will excommunicate the person so all the saints will not speak to that person or recieve information from that person.  With the Irons, they were excommunicated and people would not recieve their mail because they would not want the leadership to know they were in communication with the Irons.  

Another past obstacle was keeping finding people after they left.  A lot of people would leave hurt, that they would kind of disappear and saints and others would loss track of them.  Tragicly a lot of people in the past, saw themselves as the failures.  By the time they realized they were not the problem, they didn't know how to get in contact with others who had left in order to compare notes.  Sometimes, by the time they realized that they were not the problem, they wanted to just get on with life and not revisit the past.  Now with the internet and more importantly this website, people can find information easily.  They can find it from the privacy of their own homes without fear of the leadership or others knowing that they are looking at this information.  As we begin to compare notes with others we are seeing that the story has been the same for years.  Nothing has changed.  The assembly has been abusing people for as long as it has been around and even when it has claimed change the only real change has been the PR statement.  A change in words only.  However it has been effective in the past.  I really don't think it will be that effective in the future.

Hi Everyone,

<<Was this without effect?  Are people being extorted/threatened???

You need to remember that while in the assembly there was excessive control.  When someone leaves, who then starts talking or who has the potential to cause "damage", that one is often warned not to talk to anyone.  After being under such control, most people will not talk.

As to being threatened, I know of one case where a LB told me that the three LB's had to go to this man's house and tell him; "If you don't stop talking to the saints, we will come back."  From what I know, there have been a number of implied threats of this nature.

As to the appearance of evil; I worked for a LB and another member of the assembly.  I and another employee "left fellowship" on October 9-10, 2002.  Today we were "laid off".  This is a consistent policy in the assembly.  But, I am truly free of their influences now!

The Lord bless you,

Eric

Eric,

Your boldness in light of your job situation is wonderful and couragous.  I hope you find another job soon.  I think you would agree that almost any job would be better then continuing to work for a LB after you have left fellowship.

Keep up the good work of telling the truth.

Rachel,

Yes, I believe just about any job is better than working with the Big Potato.  I wonder, do you think they prayed for my job situation at the prayer meeting tonight?  ;D

Eric - I doubt very seriously that it was even discussed.  If anything, the LB who laid us off probably pompously got up and with great ceremony, said something like this, "You know saints how I have always come before you with major decisions in my life; jobs, where so and so would attend school, etc., we NEEEEED your prayers!  The enemy is at work and is attacking our business.  Please pray for the other brother (who owns the business with this LB) and I, for wisdom, the Lord's guidance, his blessing" ad nauseum!  Do you think he asked the saints to pray for their decision about putting out of work a dear brother in Christ who had a family (wife and child) to support and another dear sister who is putting her children through private school with her job?  I can unequivocally say ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!! :P  (And yes Brian, I meant to yell)

I am so glad to be delivered from the Assembly, the bondage, the depression, the unfruitfulness (I could go on &  on!)  Now.........I LOVE LIFE!  I am free in Christ!  He has done everything!  I have a new marriage, a new family.  There is meaning in life, not just plodding from one meeting (and responsibility) to the next with no time for meaningful interactions or relationships (particularly those of immediate family).

There is healing after the Assembly!  This website is a tremendous forum for those of us who need to process the toxic waste that has accumulated in our lives from being involved with the Assembly for most of our adult lives.  I would like to see more people become involved so that those who are lurking out there will see it is not just "a fanatic few".

Hi Everyone,

Let's see...Kimberley and I were "laid off" on Thursday, December 5th.  A current assembly member, upon hearing about it, wants to speak to the Big Potato and his servant on Friday after the tape study.  They agree.  Immediately after the tape study, the Big 3 and BP's servant get up and leave to meet privately.  The assembly member is told, "maybe we can get together tomorrow or some other day."

A question; why do they have to discuss this situation first?  If they had any backbone, they could own up to their decision.  But, noooo...they have to meet together!  ???

Here's another example to all you current assembly members of how the truth has to be twisted to meet the devices of the assembly.  I'm sure the character assassination will begin here in one form or another.

Lord bless you,

Eric

Hello everyone:
It sounds like the leadership is isolating the questioner. The first step in damage control has been taken. This might weaken the resolve of the questioner, as well.There must have been lots of damage control experience in Geo's background(even before his Poppa God days) so he is an able teacher to the LBs.

As we all know who have been in the Assembly for any length of time, this morning's ministry is going to be all about damage control.  I hypothesize that perhaps even the big potatoe will take the whole morning (rather than two or three brothers getting up to preach) or perhaps he will only allow one other brother.  This morning is so important to lay the foundation for damage control.  I am sure this is where the character assassination will begin.  However, God is bigger than the big potatoe.  "We love you Big Potatoe!" ;)  (He'll know what this means-we all know he's monitoring this board!)

Hi Kimberly and Eric!

I know you guys can't quite believe that they fired you both.  Then of course, you both knew it would happen.  Intellectually you understand, but it is very hard to deal with emotionally, because these people were "friends that stick closer than a brother," and a "family of life and light," and "the community of the redeemed," etc.

I know how you guys feel, the day after I announced I was going to Calvary Chapel, the person who worked for me for 7 and a half years quit!  She did this on the same day we were having a going away party for another employee, who was moving.

She lied to my face about her reason for quitting.  She knew it, and I knew it.  Even though I wasn't surprised, it still hurt to realize that in the final analysis, I meant nothing to her, even though I literally saved her life a few years before.  (I guess since it was God working through me to save her life I don't deserve any thanks or loyalty, that's OK with me.)

Anyhow, I know you just can't believe it, but look at it this way, now at least you are dealing in reality. Before, it was nothing but a contrived role playing game.

God will take care of you, and you will end up seeing this as a blessing all the way round..

Brent

I posted this earlier this morning.  I have been trying to decide whether to let you all in on my last conversation with the Big Potatoe and his partner (these were two of my dearest friends before choosing to fellowship at the worldly church.!)  I have decided to take the plunge.  Now everyone can see and judge for themselves:

In delivering my final check, the date was wrong.  I called and informed them, that I would be coming in to pick up a revised check with the corrected date.  Upon entering the office, who do I see but Eric's and my's replacement sitting at Eric's desk working.

So I enter the Big Potatoe's office (his partner is standing in his office, as well) and say, "So....our positions were eliminated?  Is that why she's out there working?"  His partner responds, rather nervously, "That's right, we're reorganizing the company and completely changing the way we do things."  I said to the Big (water) Potatoe, "We've been friends for fifteen years, this is the way you treat your friends (pause) by laying them off?"  He was reclining in his chair with his hands tucked behind his neck, elbows sticking out to the side with a huge grin on his face.  8) His face revealed more than he knew!  His only response, "We love you Kimberley," said with great emphasis!  I was dumbfounded!  I replied, "(his real name), words are cheap, love is an action.  Would you say laying off your friends is a loving action?"  He replied, "We love you Kimberley!"  This, said with the same zeal as the first.  Again, I was shocked! :o  Turning to his partner I said, "would you say that love is an action?"  Again, he nervously responded, stammering, "uh, uh, yes I would agree with you that love is an action."  So I asked him, "would you say that laying off your two friends is an action of love?"  He would not respond.  Turning to the Big Pototoe, I asked again, "is laying off your friends the action of love?"  He just looked at me with that same cheshire grin!  He would not respond!  I said, "you won't even respond?"  His response again was, "we love you Kimberley!"  He must have said, "we love you Kimberley" 5-7 times!  He WOULD NOT SAY ANYTHING ELSE!  I was so exasperated at this point, I left by saying, "We'll pray for both of you." ::)  Here is where he finally broke his code of silence and responded, with mock sincerity, "thank you so much." :P  I turned on my heels and shaking the dust off my feet, left their office.  

You who are still in the Assembly, judge for yourselves and beware, this could be you if you so choose to follow your Lord.

Hi Everyone,

Before I start on my analogy,for those who don't know Diotrephes, you don't know Diotrephes!  Diotrephes (aka "The Big Potato") can smile with steel cold eyes.  If you're in the assembly, look in his eyes when he says; "I'm sorry."  You'll find a different song there.

Eric

Hi Everyone,

I believe there is some confusion regarding the big potato.  I was made aware of these issues as a result of various conversations I had.  There seems to be some confusion also with history.  To understand these things, one needs only to look at the plant kingdom for examples.  Therefore I need to start from the beginning…

In the beginning there was Mr. & Mrs. Potato Head.  (Please note:  Their egos are representative by the size of their heads to their bodies.)  These begat sons and daughters, but probably mostly sons.  These little potato’s went out into the fields.  Some became big potatos.

Now for the history lesson.  In Rome, he is called the Pope.  In Mexico he is called Papa.  Papa in Spanish also means “Potato”.  Hence the reference above.  The difference is that the assembly produces “Big Papas”.

In the valley there is a big potato and a servant (these two work together).  The big potato has a peanut as a puppet.  As we all know peanuts are neither nuts nor peas (neither leaders nor shepherds) and they grow underground, hence their head is in the dirt.  Peanuts are also known as Monkeynuts.  This is probably more appropriate in some cases as the leaders are both monkeys (they mimic their Leader) and nuts (no explanation needed).  There is a third who is a lot like a jumping bean.  At least if you say something that convicts him, he’ll jump all over you.

I hope this clears up some misconceptions.

(Note: The peanut plant self-pollinates.  Another interesting analogy since the Leader pollinates himself into the various assemblies.  What you do see is God is not doing the work!
Also, the pea is not a peanut and the peanut is not a pea.  They are both legumes.  The counterfeit presumes to be something they are not.)

Now it's all clear. Thanks! ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
                                       ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Terry,

Nice use of smiles.  I "commend" you to office of Overcomer.  ;D

Eric

Eric

I know the editor and the global moderator very well, and they are the only ones who can give overcomer status.  Not only that, if someone does overcome, the bar will be raised at the first misspelling, or improper smilie usage, and they will be dropped to Senoir member. (oops, I mispelled, twice)

If you people only had the capacity to understand these things! :'(

Well, I didn't ask for this job. Sometimes, I'll be up here, and I look out at you all, and I say, "What am I doing here?"  Only God could make me be here with all of you.  ;D

Do you feel better? Send cash,

Brent (in tight with editor...mind your P's and Q's

Hi Everyone,

I found an old tape from a single's meeting that Betty gave in 1989.  Whoa!  :o  In two minutes, she crossed the boundary twice.

1.  "Friendship is not about emotions or the other person, it's about a goal you're seeking together."

2.  "First there's friendship, then there's the engagement.  When you're engaged, the friendship is no longer involved.  You now show the other how great you are."

Sounds like great advice to me!  :(  :'(

Eric

Thanks for the commendation Eric!
Evidently the Editor among editors didn't agree. Now if I only cd. have gotten those doggone similies to line up he wd. have seen my diligence and....

Greg did you work for Ariel?

Since I'm signed on David, I'll respond for Greg.  No, he didn't work for Ariel.   He has worked at machine shops almost the whole time he has lived in the Valley.  There was a short period of time (when he had cancer and was doing the dreaded Gerson Therapy) he went back to school and worked for Tim McCarthy (LB in the Valley).  He said he would never work for Tim again after working for him for that short period of time.  Tim was the worst boss Greg ever worked for.   He was a taskmaster and Greg (this, while he was doing the therapy to fight his cancer!) would stay up all night to finish drawings for Tim.  There were many jobs that Greg never got paid for.  Even recently, Tim told Greg, "remember that job........well, I got paid for it and I'll get you the money for doing the drawings."  We still haven't seen any money from it! :o  btw, this job was well over four years ago!!!!  I thought that these men were to have good reputations in their work relationships! ::) ::) ::)

Kimberley, as you and I both learned and experienced, being a LB does not automatically mean the person is righteous.  Quite to the contrary, I found the most deceptive people in my life were LB's.   :o

I'm sure Tim has no intention of ever paying Greg.  The money could be better spent on...his own things.  >:(

I have lots more to say on these things, but the forum is probably not the best place to say it.

Hi Greg, I'm just confussed with the potatoe head story.  What is the situation you are being laid off from?

David:

It is not Greg who was laid off.  Eric Buchman and I (Kimberley) worked for THE Head Leading Brother in our Assembly (SF Valley, CA).  He is actually the vice president (it is a corporation).  The President of the company is (or was, I'm not really sure) one of my dearest friends and someone who has great desires to rise in the hierarchy of the lodge (I believe he has desires to be a LB).   My husband and I considered both of these men to be two of our closest friends.  Eric and I gave notice that we were choosing to fellowship elsewhere the second week of October (and by the way, both Eric and my husband gave their reasons to the leadership-Eric to all three LB's and my husband to one LB-we thought there was plurality of leadership in this place and therefore didn't need to meet with all three.)  We, of course, were told that we didn't leave in the right way.  I was personally told, numerous times, that we didn't go to the leadership (whenever this was said to me, I would not be given time to respond, the person would generally hang up on me after having the last word.)  Lodge members are very good at attacking and then making a quick exit, not allowing for any critical thinking dialogue, under the guise that "I can't listen to you, you are being devisive and a railer and the word of God directs me to not have anything to do with you."

I digress.  We knew we would be fired.  It took them two months (they had to get all their ducks in a row, as we did ALL the accounting: billing, collections, payroll, payables, you name it, we did it.)  When they "laid us off", they used a "Marketing Consultant" to do their dirty work.  They didn't even have the guts to do it themselves.  They have since told a friend of both Eric and me (a current Lodge Member) the reason they had to do this was that they believed we would be contentious!  As God is my witness, I sat there calmly and took their abuse.  The only thing that perhaps could be considered contentious was when the marketing consultant said, "Yours is not the only position that is being eliminated.  There will be more."  I responded with, "Oh, I know, and we know the real reason we are being let go, not your fabricated reason of, 'We are reorganizing the company."  Perhaps the only other contentious statement I made was something like this, "I won't be available for any questions.  You will get all my files, etc., but don't expect me to train anyone or answer any questions.  You can pick up the pieces yourself."  To this, the marketing consultant asked, "You mean, if John calls and has questions, you won't be available to answer them?"  DUH ::) ::)  Did he not listen to me, when I made my statement?  So, I quietly responded, "No, I won't be available for John to answer any questions."  Excuse me...that's why they had me working for them in the first place!  I'm not going to work for free!

To see my one other interaction with them, review my posts, as I describe the last conversation I had with both of them (when I describe the HLB as the big potatoe-this really is a phrase I coined from Eric).

Any other questions, please feel free to ask.  

I pity these men!  

Hi Everyone,

I got an email from a friend who left the lodge years ago.  Apparently the lodge is doing damage control in the valley.  Surprise!  Surprise!   :o  :o

They are calling ex-member(s) to warn them of "stuff" going on in the lodge and wanted to make sure that the ex-member(s) aren't being negatively influenced.  As usual the lodge member doesn't want to hear the truth, but just refers the person to the leading brothers.

Well, the lodge member got an earful!  The lodge DOES NOT CARE about ex-members if they are discouraged.  They do care if they are encouraged by other christians.

It's sad!   :( :'(  And it's appalling how wicked some people are in the lodge.  >:(

This has bothered me and it is time to bring it to the light.  There is a brother in the valley who has been responsible for the tape ministry since the mid to late seventies.  One week before the excommunication, all the tapes were taken from his home and moved to a "leading brothers" home.  The following week, before the valley was told of the excommunication, 20 years of tapes were destroyed and thrown away.

This brother was never reimbursed for any of his purchases.  Many times when I was in the assembly, I asked if the assembly was paying for the tapes.  Each time he said, he was paying the bill himself.  A few times I donated tapes for him to use.  Generally there are 3 taped meetings per week and at least 10 tapes / year of special meetings.  Tapes in the '70's were at least $3/cassete, in the 80's at least $2/cassette, and early 90's at least $1.50/cassette.  Sometimes cheap tapes were used.

I have a few questions for leadership;
1.  Why were the tapes thrown out?  What are you afraid of?
2.  Did you pay the brother for damaging/stealing his property?  20yrs x 52 weeks x 3 tapes + (20*10) = 3320 tapes x $2 = $6640 plus or minus.
3.  Why are you trying to be so secretive about this?

Eric

Hey Rudy,

I think we all had the same hope that things would get better, people would change, there would be more love, etc.  But the house built on evil can't stand or change because the core is corrupt. George was an evil man with evil intentions. When a man exchanges God for a ministry there is intent already there!

Heide

 :o Sounds like the mafia or a government cover-up. :o
I wonder if the tape with the confession of who shot JFK was in the batch.

WHY DESTROY ALL THE TAPES???

(sounds like something Hillary Clinton did when there was a 'suicide' in the white house -- get in quick and destroy any and all documents)

My best guess is the true worry of legal action being taken.  And who knows what has been said over the course of 20 years that could be used in a court of law to incriminate ....

(yes, this IS a coverup)

I've tried to keep a positive attitude on the boards, be optomistic about repentance and look for good that actually has come out of the work.

But THIS disturbs me --- in a MAJOR way.

If it's true, it shows there are many involved, going to great extremes to cover up and to protect george AND THEMSELVES.

This is not good .......

Ken re: the destruction of the tapes,

Just a thought (not a very well developed one at this stage:

I have contended that George should be answerable secular authorities for many of his abuses - financial, etc.

In order for something to be proven in a civil court I'm guessing that a consistent doctrine and pattern must be proven. What more damning evidence than from the mouth of the Great Man himself!

Here is just one of many potential examples: Betty Geftakys spent 35 years setting herself up as a qualified counsellor, especially to married couples. In many instances her counselling was ruinous.

If she was sued in a civil court for putting herself out there as a qualified counsellor someone would have to prove that she did present herself that way and that her counselling was based on a specific and unique doctrine.  Guess where evidence of this doctrine could be found?

Scott

I don't know if I should post this, but who cares?

Don't worry Guys, they weren't able to destroy everything.  There is much evidence that we have, if you get my drift.  The tapes were in my home prior to their being destroyed.

If there is a need for evidence, it exists, I'm just not going to say where! ;D ;D ;D

In comment to Betty's "counseling to couples" -- funny you mention that.

I remember one time she came through St Louis -- the first time I met her.  The whole weekend was so demeaning -- I left feeling lower about myself than I ever had in my life (and I can understand how someone struggling with depression could have left suicidal).

I thought of her as a cold, uncompassionate, comdemming woman.

After that I NEVER went to another meeting she was at (yes, i was a rebel).

Okay -- for those of you doorkeepers in St Louis, those meetings with Betty where I called and said I was "sick" -- I admit, I was just "sick" of getting comdemned and beat up to the point I had NO respect for myself as a brother, as a Christian, as a husband, as a father.

In fact, one "faithful shepherd" told me face to face: "Ken, you have failed as a father" -- because my kids weren't like his kids ??????????

Anyway -- that was the worst possible time for that quote because it was the lowest point in my life, when I felt a failure in EVERY aspect of my life and was comtemplating a life where I could find some semblance of self-respect.

JUST HOW MUCH DAMAGE HAS THIS WORK DONE TO PEOPLE?

Okay, I admit, I'm starting to get bitter, real bitter to the damage done .... it's starting to eat me that people are contemplating how to continue with this -- STOP IT!!!

THE WORK IS OVER!!!

IT CRUMBLED OVERNIGHT!!!!!!!

IT'S OVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GEORGE GEFTAKYS' WORK IS OVER !!!!!!

LET IT DIE

Ken, Unfortunately the work is not over. If you remember there was a huge falling away in the mid-eighties. George hunkered down and rebuilt. Many of the issues then are issues now.

Granted we have the web now and granted George and David have made serious tactical blunders, but I do not believe for a second that they have given up.

I do not believe there should be any let up on the pressure to bring and end to this ministry. It will rise again.

Scott

PS - Kim: U R THE BOMB!

Scott and Ken and Kim,

Many, Many facts were distorted and twisted within the preaching of Georges minestry...from year to year his doctrine experienced many "refinements". This consistent inconsistency is only noted from a distance...obviously there is great concern by the "establishment" of others getting this drift. It would undermine the validity of any current leaders who want to continue after the recent revelations...and it would prevent another Geftackys from emerging as leader..Post facto.

My question is regarding Betty....I loved that woman, she was my surrogate Grandmother...I kept in deep contact with her for many years after I left the assembly. My experiences with her were very diffrent than most for sure, but somewhere in all of this she has been devastated. Her personality is to protect and promote what she "fears' and obviously her couseling was her "adaptation" to living with George for that long....she had to convince not only Ken or others to live the "Assembly" way, she had to re-convince herself...every time.

I grieve for her, and hope that her story might come out eventually. I am not defending her or suggesting she is innocent, but just wondering out loud....she helped me much in my younger years and never pressured me to come back to the Assembly. THATS RIGHT....NEVER PRESSURED ME TO COME BACK.

Food for though...

B.

We can only conjecture on what kind of difficult life BG had with such a husband as GG.  To Brad, I would say that your experience differs quite a bit from the experience of many of the sisters in the assemblies.

I'm thinking it was more of Bill-Hillary relationship.  They both tolerated staying together to keep up appearances so that they could obtain what they wanted.  

For George,
He got his fame - preaching before an auditorium full of people, traveling around the world as if he was a real missionary, teaching summer school, etc.
He got his power - he was in absolute control of all the assemblies and exercised great control in people's lives (especially the workers)
He got his sex - a sister here, a secretary there.  Was that before or after shouting into his pillow and being almost raptured from the glorious "heavenly vision" that God was giving to him?  Hard to see how he had time after laboring so much preparing fresh meals for us from the "kitchen of heaven".  I guess he had his helpers.
He got his money - continual flow of 10% of hundreds if not thousands of people's pay check as well as special gifts, including people's inheritances, etc.

For Betty,
She got her servants waiting on her hand and foot.
She got her special diets that she so craved.  Wha?  Was that the demons talking?
She got to be manipulative and influence people's lives, even her husband's and two grown sons.  They both in their forties and fifties were getting money from mom!  And, they regularly talked with their parents for advice and, at least in David's case, to get them out of jams.  Real manly men, they were.  She told people to get married or to not get married (demons talking again?), what they could or couldn't wear, how to behave and not to behave.



But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.  Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!  Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?  And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.  Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?  Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.  And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.  And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.  Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.  Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.  Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.  Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.  Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?  Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:  That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Brad,

First of all, I'm sorry you feel so bad about Betty. Second of all, if you don't have a copy of Rachel and Judy's story (I think you may have signed on after they were pulled) GET ONE. TONIGHT.

Rachel has a unique perspective on her grandmother's influence. Kind of a power behind the the throne deal.

Scott

Excuse me,   >:(

Rachel and Judy's stories were not, and are not, nor will be PULLED!

They are still on the main page, and will remain there until they ask me to take them down!  

Brent

Arthur and others:

Arthur, you are absolutely right on.  It's Bill-Hillary 101, except that Bill made it to the white house.  Hopefully, George will visit the Big House.

Also,  Betty is responsible for devouring many people's lives.  

If anything is to continue, it must do so without one trace of George and Betty left.  This is going to be almost impossible, because all of the leaders were handpicked by them?  

Anyone out there think the lottery is good odds?

Brent

Whoa !!!  :o

Hold your horses ladies and gentlemen...I am in NO WAY advocating the GG and BG lifestyle. I am not supporting their leadership... I LEFT A LONG TIME AGO.

My simple point which shot off major personal messages... is simply this. Betty is a person, one who must be deeply hurt and pained by her husbands unfaithfulness and unfathomably so after so many years of supporting him and his minestry. I am not claiming to know all or understand all, rather to give of my personal experiences.

The fact remains, Betty did not discourage me from leaving in 1988 and in fact continued to support me and my decisions for many years to come... ???  What that actually means I don't dare presume to know.

Of all the people on this web site, I would have to believe very few of you besides Judy or Rachel shared this relationship and know enough to make comments. I have read their statements and story ( thanks Brent and Scott) and it made me sick....Betty has some serious answering to do...and I am frankly in shock...Judy and Rachel...I have no rational or appropriate "christian" words to use right now...so I will refrain from further comment on that... but rest assured my heart hurts to read of your years of abuse and fear...I wish I could hug you both and make it all fade into distant memories... :'(

In closing...something is NOT adding up here and we may never know until the great day to come. One doesn't act with such bi-polar behaviour and remain mentally sound...Betty and George must have some serious DISASSOCIATION pathology and need some major help.

 My apologies to any who were hurt or decieved by Betty and her minestry I am not defending her or George....I am sure my mother will be calling me soon to set my account straight as well. But, the power of GOD's grace in my own life, the conviction of the Holy Spirit and the forgiveness of my family have lead me to let GOD judge the intent of the heart and to cut others some serious slack. I fear to think of what my life would look like on this bulletin board....

Peace.

My take on Betty, She was messed around by this dude early on in their relationship.  I try to imagine her a young woman at BIOLA hopeing to become a happy contented Christian woman/mother.  Look what she ended up with?
no doubt within their marriage  she was to "Blame" for all of the problems.  One could argue "She should have stood up to him!"  Maby she did and got beat for it!?  now realize that in her generation how difficult it would be for a Christian to leave her husband?   What I'll remember most about Betty is her "Liberty" to attend one meeting a month and "be the most Godly" woman in the assembly!

Hmm...good point David.  I remember seeing the pictures of them in their early twenties.  It was on a collage made for their 50th wedding anniversary by the saints.  The "Year of Jubilee", heh.  They looked like nice young kids.  I can't help but wonder how a person can become so corrupt.  Who knows what Betty really was like before she met George, before he started cheating on her, before all this assembly thing, etc.