AssemblyBoard

WHY NOT?

I'm with you Brother Garth!  I will stand on your post with you.  ;D

You have the best sense of humor on the board.  Besides me, of course, cause I think it's all funny!!!

KMS

It's getting funnier by the minute!

Seriously, Karen, you are all-right!!

Garth

SPEAK OUT!  HAVE A SPINE!

ya, and we don't believe in evolution.  >:(

Who has a spine to call a spade a spade?  Who will stand up for the victims?  And they all lived happily ever after!

Jeremiah 21:12  O house of David, thus saith the LORD; Execute judgment in the morning, and deliver him that is spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor, lest my fury go out like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

Unfortunately, anyone who has been in fellowship has been a victim.  Though I have nothing personal against any LB's in any gathering, I do think it would be appropriate for all of them to step down.  It's gonna take time for us all to have our thinking changed after years of being indoctrinated!!  I feel that it would be very hard for LB's to be objective at this point in time.  Just my opinion.  

One thing for sure, even though GG is gone, I sure wouldn't go back.  Remember, Moses had to spend 40 years in the backside of the desert before he was fit to lead God's people.  God had to get "Egypt" out of Moses and teach him about shepherding.  Those "leaders" need to learn from a healthy church family before they try to go on.

Good post Toni.  

You are right in saying the leadership needs to step aside. The only qualification 90% of them ever had was that they were put in power by George. And if they were put there by George it is because he felt they would be complicit and carry out his policies.

In addtion, the leadership in SLO MUST ALL step down, regardless. They have no business leading a flock. Let them repent. Let the be forgiven by whomever is able to forgive, but DO NOT give them authority, leadership or responsibility over the believers.

I 'm encouraged with those who have stepped down.  
It shows their humility and willingness to be brothers among brothers, (and sisters).  ;D

I am encouraged that common sense is coming back to the BB.

Garth

STAND UP FOR THE VICTIMS!!

Scott,

Though in general I agree. Stay tuned. I think you may see many changes to come. I heard that there is some unfinished business that the brothers are attending to, namely once and for all dealing with David G.  If he doesn't repent no more messing around.

Let's wait and see what happens over the coming weeks. Sounds like other things are happening in other places too!

To those guests out there, Please let us know what's happening so we can pray and encourage the saints!

Paris

Hello all you people!

First:

Who is standing up for the victims?  Well, I guess I have, a little.  And some others.  Also, everyone who has the courage to tell the truth has as well.  What is the result?  the check is literally in the mail to Judy.  I mailed it myself. More on the way, unless the whole thing falls apart, which is quite likely. Just look around.  Did you ever think this would happen?  Is it over? Definitely not!

Second:  

Leadership.  I predict that this will get cleared up pronto.  Ray Dienzo, a leader in SLO, formally stepped down today.  I may post his letter of resignation, but since he has done this publicly, in the light, I probably won't have to.  Word should get around.

All attempts to patch up the leaks in the old wine-skin will fail.  In order to minimize the damage, a few of us are involved up to our necks in this very issue.  I took the day off work yesterday, in order to e-mail and talk on the phone all day, on this very topic.  We'll see what happens tonite. Please pray.

I am going to scold a few of you, and you are welcome to get right back in my face if you like. >:(

Some of you who are complaining about the injustice, or lack of speed in how things are progressing, are not doing more than posting here, several times per day.  Some of you know things that are critical to exposing the evil leadership in some of the "George loving," assemblies, and all you do is complain about how not enough is being done!

Well, DO SOMETHING!  SPEAK UP!  Capice? :)

Brent

Brent, keep up the good work.  I pray that you don't compromise for even a second.  The purpose of this thread is not aimed at you.  It is aimed at those who are opposed to the truth.  Those that want to hug and say "all is well in the lodge".  They are more worried about the feelings of some poor little leading brothers than they are about the rights of victims.

Quite right Garth!

Hmmmmm....are promotions in order?  ;D

Brent,  good post!  I think we all know it's gonna take time for all of this to fan out.  What are some things that all of us can do??  I'm open to suggestions,  I  was involved in St.Louis for over 20 yrs.  I'd like to do whatever I can.  

For anybody who's goal it is to have a sound beliefs and clear thoughts, nothing is more helpful than adverse criticism.  It's called REALITY. However, there is a state of mind that continues to hold on to and refuses to question it's perspective in spite of the clear evidence presented by adverse critics.  It's called DELUSION.

Christ came speaking the TRUTH.  It was religious men who refused to own they were lost and separated themselves from Him by their system of religion.  These men, looked up to by others as leaders, were told that harlots and tax collectors had better hopes of heaven than themselves.

"How often would I have gathered thy children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and AND YE WOULD NOT."

Again, the term is DELUSION

Awesome post Rob! It is so good that I almost hate to write anything... But....

Keep telling the truth, over and over. Just because one brother has stepped down out of leadership doesn't mean it stops. There are stories to be told and anytime one person tells his/her story it isn't gossip. It is something to be reckoned with. If you have left the assembly and gone some place else don't be quiet, tell people there is a christian cult in the area. If you don't talk, you assume responsibility for what happened. Evil hides in the darkness, evil hides when people don't want to talk.

Today, tell your story to a friend. Remind people what happened. List the names, talk!

Heide

BRAVO HEIDE!  BRAVO ROB! ;D

I still haven't heard an honest reply from Jeff or Roberto.

 -Walk with me down history lane. It's 1993-1994 Greg Holder has witnessed something terrible and there is a meeting. Not only are the leading brothers there BUT there wives. I call out Jenny Sanchez and Nancy Lemkuhl as well as your husbands. You were present at the second meeting and you heard first hand about the abuse. What did you do? Over the next few years did you think about befriending Judy (not to be meddlesome, out of sincere friendship) or did you just claim to be a coward? I've been thinking about this all morning, what were you waiting for? Blood splatter on the wall? Nancy and Jenny, you both need to be aware that I hold you accountable.

Heide Johnson

Heide,

Nancy & Jenny are  the wives of leading brothers in SLO.  They are victims of abuse themselves.  I saw it with my own eyes when I was in fellowship in SLO from 1985-1990.

The definition of a wife in assembly terms:
1)  Husband is NEVER WRONG
2)  Wife is no more than a slave to her husband
3)  The wife must back her husband - NO MATTER WHAT!
4)  Wife is to remain silent
5)  The wife can do nothing right

Do you really expect Nancy and Jenny are even allowed to read this website?  

Do you think they would dare come out and say that their husbands abuse them?  What do you think Jeff and Roberto would do to their wives?

Love ya,
Lori

What or who is running things in SLO...I was under the impression that Danny Edwards had recently moved to be in leadership there? Is that true....?

If it is true, from his post earlier he is not adverse to showing true humility and repentance and ACCOUNTABILITY with the local church. Is it possible that due to late arrival and his potential innocence (since he was not there until recently) in this SLO issue..that maybe some healing and restoration could occur including a exposure of this obviously Violent church body....?

I have to hope that GOD can and will continue to expose these sicking tales of violence and abuse and allow any sincere folks a chance to move on...

Moved to tears by these tales...and wondering "how" these could have become so common in one locale... How many others and in how many places was this occuring? WE NEED TO KNOW  >:(

Brad,

How great to hear from you!  You may not remember me, but I was on the MTT to Providence in 1987.  I think you and I rode in Joe Busch's green van.  I just escaped the assembly prison/assylum last week.  I'm glad to see you're doing great.

I know something went down in Tuscola in the '80's, but nobody discussed it openly (and most certainly not honestly).  I heard the usual "those people (Mathias's) really caused problems and divisions" garbage.

Lori,

In light of the subject matter of this thread, you might want to give some specific details about abuse in other families in SLO.  If there are wives and children suffering abuse we need to help them by exposing the darkness specifically.  Besides, if some of the SLO LB's decide to "repent" of the David G cover-up and ignore their own abuse, some might be fooled.  You can't get rid of ivy by pulling out the leaves.  You've got to get all the roots and then some.

Jack

Lori and Heide,
Please, please. Do you really want reconciliation? Do you really want to  help? These women do not need your vitriole right now. They need your prayers and your compassion. Their families need healing, not suggestion, innuendo, and bitter words. Have a little mercy on hurting, bruised people.
You need mercy too, don't you?
Pat (Nancy's sister)

Jack....amazing and wonderful. Would love to hear your story...share what you can. :)

I just got off my private email from a guy in Canada..named Chris Burgess..he has pictures of that very MTT trip. I expect he will be contacting you as he frequently monitors this site. He has a great group photo of everyone and is trying to ID their names...you are right in there.

Peace my brother and let the light shine so the healing can begin...

Pat & Lori,

I understand where you are coming from but both of these women played a part in what happened. All I am asking is that they own up to there actions. I can't get this out of my head that it was all the men's fault. Yes, the wives followed accordingly but in their hearts they made choices. They might both be victims but what about other women that they victimized? Both could have refrained from making comments but they didn't. Healing happens when you repent of the sin in your heart.  Healing happens when all this darkness comes to light. It took Judy a tremendous amount of courage to write her own story of how she was victimized but she also took responsibility for her own actions. That is all that I am asking for. Healing starts at home when both parties can repent. So far Jeff's actions to me have not been sincere. There is no suggestions, innuedo's or bitter words here just honesty. I believe Jeff and Roberto to be most of the problem so far but I also know how I was treated by these women. Before the families can be healed they must acknowledge the truth. I was the one your brother in law referred to as a liar when I told the truth about the abuse that I saw. Until there is repentance I will not back down nor offer a fast fix. I would love reconciliation but at what cost?
Heide
P.S. What does vitriole mean?

I remember what I forgot to say Lori, there are exceptions to your rule. I don't believe that every woman who is married got beaten in the assembly. I believe there are couples out there who went against the system and actually appreciated their wives and cherished them. It always seemed to me (I hope who I name don't mind...) the Foy's, Cantrell's, Tr0ckman's, Cesaretti's and Steepleton's had really awesome marriages with no bouts of abuse. I think there are others. Pat, if you are trying to tell me your sister is in a bad place and I need to back off, be more specific.

I'm stepping off my soapbox now it is starting to get mushy!

Heide, I have sent you a private message.
Pat

Heide,

The abuse I am talking about is the mental abuse.  The controlling type of abuse.  I do not think it is possible to be married in the assembly and not receive the controlling type of abuse all the way down to the finest detail or what I call the "so whats".  Control type abuse was what was prevalent.   Control was what was taught!

I also believe that the amount of abuse suffered was directly proportionate to the amount of counsel received.

I know of the Foy's personally.  Sheila did not want ungodly counsel by David Geftaky's and refused it.  She seemed to have been spared - Praise God for her following her OWN conscience!

Control was what was taught!!!  I remember a story by a sister who was going on a "date" with a brother.  The date consisted of being taken to a bookstore.  The brother was told by the LB's to take the sister to the bookstore.  If she stays by your side i.e. follows you around in the store that is good.  If she wanders off to look at books that she is interested in, that is bad.  The sister failed the test.  Come on, get real!  

I go in bookstores all the time with my husband.  It is one of our favorite things to do.  He goes straight for the engineering books and I go to the Christian books - so what!  

The abuse I am talking about are the "so whats"!  Why in the world is it necessary to control your wife all the way down to the "so whats"?  What to cook, what to wear, what to iron, what to clean.  Do this, do that, you didn't do that right etc.  This meal is lousy, change your clothes, you didn't iron this shirt good enough, look at that spot of water on the bathroom sink.  Don't you think a woman should be allowed to make ANY DECISIONS for herself?  Can't you trust your wife?  Are you that insecure? (Don't read Proverbs 31 - that does not apply in the assembly).

I have talked to several married couples that have left the assembly and they assured me that things are SO MUCH BETTER NOW!  Well no wonder - dah.  Their husbands are no longer receiving ungodly counsel by the LB's on how to control their wife.

Lori

The bookstore date got around. I know that happened in other places as well. Yikes.

Lori,

Thanks for clarifying what you meant by "abuse".  I lived in Jeff's house for 3 years and Roberto's house for 4 1/2 months and I NEVER heard or saw any evidence of physical abuse (it never even entered my mind).  I agree, though, the advice we have been given about family relationships is horribly perverted.  I'm not married yet, but I hope by the time I do get married I will have somewhat of an idea of what a healthy family looks like.  I know it will take years to get rid of all the baggage from the assembly culture, but that my new life will be much better.

Jack

Hello jack, Lori, John, Brad, Heide, Pat, and everyone else.

Yes, I also received plenty of "bookstore dating advice," from David Geftakys.  In my case, I like to surf.  There was this one beach, where the lineup was about a half mile offshore, and the shore was always littered with tons of kelp. (seaweed for you Nebraskans and Illinoisans...)

The flies were like fog on this beach. The waves were excellent, and there were no flies about 15 yards offshore.  Suzie had a hard time watching me surf, because I was so far away and the flies were so thick.  It smelled of rotting kelp too.  She hated that beach, and told me not to take her  there again.

David's advice was, "You don't want to marry a woman who won't follow you.  She needs to do what you want to do.  If you do what SHE wants, then she is going to lead you around like you have a ring in your nose."  When I asked him about "Fly Beach," his response was, "Tell her to build a fire."

I thought about this, and soon realized that what I really wanted was Suzie.  I was worried that if I treated her like David suggested, I just may not get her.  So I didn't take her to fly beach, but went there with my friends instead.  It was a good choice for me, and if you have ever seen my wife you will agree with me.

David was thrilled with me when I ended a date with Suzie after ten minutes.  We got in the car, and I told her we were going to such and such a place.  She said, "Oh, can we go somewhere else?"

I immediately turned the car around and took her home.  Date over.  

Why?  Because she wasn't content to be with ME, where I wanted to go.  I was training her.  David and Jeff were totally pumped about this.  I was learning to be a real man.  Suzie was confused and hurt.

Why am I saying all this?  Because it is all true.  I have totally repented of this sort of behavior, but there are many families out there who were trained to be like this and still are!

Yes, there were lots of good things in the Assembly.

Brent

I can vouche for a more recent 'dating' practice in SLO, mine.  It was nothing like what I see described here.  I let Jeff know about how many times we were getting together each week.  At one point when I said 2 or 3.  He asked why not more, but I was too busy to fit anymore time in.  We went out for dinner, went for walks, prayed together, talked about everything under the sun, our hope and dreams our childhood.  

I was never told to rule my wife or anything like that.  There were no tests to see if she would follow or other tests to see if she would pass.  No asking her to do this or that to serve me.  Nobody even suggested that to me.  We went out and sought God's will and built our friendship.  We needed to see if we were going the same direction, if our dreams and apsirations were compatible.  Did we enjoy each others' company without everyone else around?

I understand by stories from the past (and I don't doubt them) that things were pretty tweaked and that is/was horrible, but I haven't seen any pressure for stuff like that in my courting/dating or marriage.  I may be king, but she is the queen.  Christ is the head, but He serves, builds, upholds.

I'm all for getting things made right for the those who have been hurt by the bogus teaching that the man is the lord to be served and not the lord who serves, but I just thought that I'd give an example of something that went right.  

Hi Tim

No doubt about it, things loosened up over the last 2 years.  Not everwhere, and in everycase, but in the dating area, there was a change.

However, if "spending time," was cool, other things were not.  The cover up, excommunication of me, George's pecadillos etc.  prove that plenty was quite wrong.  Jesus Christ and the Bible were right on.  Everything that didn't match up to this was not.

It takes time to sort it all out, but I am THANKFUL that you and Karen did not have any "Fly Beach Dating."  

However, far more people did, than didn't.

I like to look at the Geftakys group like a voyage on the QE 2.  The crew has noisy bad quarters, and they do all the work.  the common passenger gets OK food and accomodations, but they can't get into first class.

First class is five star all the way.  Different experience for each person, but they are all in the same boat, going to the same place.  It's OK for cruise ships, but NOT for a church.

Brent

I started a thread entitled "What does the Bible say about dasting?" Perhaps Tim and Brent would like to contribute your thoughts there as well.  We have been having quite a heated discussion about our view on dating! ;)

dasting??? DATING! ;D

I have a correction! Earlier I had called the wives out specifically of a meeting that I had thought took place in SLO. Only to discover that the only wife present at that meeting was Marcie. I have apologized to Nancy face to face and hope to Jenny as well. Oops....

Dasting?  Dating?

  The rule was, "Don't you dast date".
Tom

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For anybody whose goal it is to have sound beliefs and clear thoughts, nothing is more helpful than adverse criticism.  It's called REALITY.  However, there is a state of mind that continues to hold on to and refuses to question its perspective in spite of the clear evidence presented by adverse critics.  It's called DELUSION.

Christ came speaking the TRUTH.  It was religious men who refused to own they were lost and separated themselves from Him by their system of religion.  These men, looked up to by others as leaders, were told that harlots and tax collectors had better hopes of heaven than themselves.

"How often would I have gathered thy children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and AND YE WOULD NOT."

Again, the term is DELUSION.

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