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I was looking to see if anyone had heard from children who grew up in the assembly?

Ben Miller - if you are out there I have been wondering what you are up to.

Hello "Me"

We hope and pray that this forum can be used as a vehicle for reconcilliation.  However, the person you are looking for may not want to make his presence known on this board.

If you re-post this message, after registering as a member, the person can respond CONFIDENTIALLY  by sending you a private message over this bulletin board.  

Anyone may register in such a manner that no one is able to see your email.

Of course, we would rather have everyone say who they are, etc.  but we do understand the delicate nature of post Assembly communication!  8)

So you might try posting again, using a registered account, so the person can get in touch with you!

editor

I am "me" but I couldn't get my post to post when I put my name in.   :P  I had registered but it wasn't working for me.  :'(   I am sorry I am so computer illiterate but I am working on figuring this out.  I appreciate any advice. ::)

I had the same problem initially---my first post showed that I was a guest and my name didn't come up.  When you login, this changes:  where it once said "Welcome Guest, please login" it now says, "Hey, Karen Sanford, you have 0 messages, 0 are new".  That's how I know I'm logged in.  For some reason if I change pages it sometimes quits recognizing me and jumps back to "welcome guest".  SOOOO...now when I post, I just make sure it says "Hey, Karen Sanford" at the top right of the screen.  If it doesn't, I know I need to re-log in.  I'm sure this is a quirk that will get worked out as the site gets even more and more advanced.  ;D

Thank you Karen  - That was my problem.  Whenever I changed pages I was no longer logged in and it got frustrating.  I will try what you said.  Thank you again. :D

Does anybody remember Tom Hyun or Steve Weiner?  Many moons ago they lived in Fullerton.  If anybody has any idea where they are, I'd love to get in touch with you.

steve Weiner left a few years ago. I am not sure why, or where he went.

He was a radiologist, perhaps he got a job somewhere?

I've been in contact with Steve a while back.  If you Private Message me with your email, I can give you contact info.  I wouldn't want to post it publically, though.  He stays in touch with Tom, too.  So if you get a hold of him, he could probably tell you what Tom's up to.

I would very much like to get in touch with LUIS VEGA.  He used to be in the SLO assembly before he moved to Sacramento.  If you are out there, I am thinking of you and would like to talk.

Hello, friends!  I can't tell you how many times I've thought about you two and prayed for you.  Rachel:  Great job on your article.  Reading it brings back a flood of painful memories, but it is a necessary process.  I admire your courage.  Judy:  I don't even know 1/10 of 1% of the suffering you have endured, but I do remember many excellent discussions and many good laughs.  I think of you often.  Please drop me a note so I can update you on the kidz.

Tom

Greg,

Dave Reveley (I think) went to Portland and then was sent out into the mission field.  I miss him too!

I'm not sure where the others are.

Tom and Steve visited Grace Bible Chapel while they were exiting Fullerton.  Both said the legalism and controle were too much.  People in the Plymouth bretheren assemblies were familiar with Steve (Minnessotta)  You might try them?

Mr. Malone,

I realize that I am not a man of your stature as a spiritual leader and probably incapable of effectively debating with you on such issues.

I read your reply to David a couple of times, trying to figure out if you were just messin' with him...like on the humor thread.

I think you would have been correct to defend any untrue judgments about the aforementioned church.  However, you continued to what I saw as a personal insult toward David, and I don't think that was necessary.  Most of us on this board probably don't agree with the Unitarian Church, or follow Buddhism, or attend Philosophical Research Center seminars.  However, I think we can let those items speak for themselves rather than condemning David publicly.  

I may be incorrect, but I thought the purpose of this website was to encourage and assist those who have successfully broken free from the Assembly, and lead them into or support them in fulfilling and loving relationships with Jesus Christ.  Going beyond a refute of David's two sentence statement to attack his choices in life and then single him out as an apostate does not, in my book, encourage or love a broken person.  And if it were me, I would not feel a great desire to seek Christ from reading it.

My intention in writing this is not to start a war of words, and even though I have a lot more I would like to say, this is it.  I mostly want David to know that he is still welcome here, I think.

Merry Christmas David, Merry Christmas John, Merry Christmas everyone else (esp. to those for whom this will be the first!)

Karen

Karen,

I agree with you.  John, I really think you are being hard and unmerciful to a man who has been through a lot at the hands of people who called themselves Christains.  I believed this bb was to be a place of healing for people not further judgement and condemnation.  How about encouraging him toward what you believe is the truth instead of attacking him for what you believe are wrong beliefs.

Rachel

"a man of your stature as a spritual leader"

Does such a person exist?  One thing I learned from the assembly is to not be impressed by any man, no matter how "spiritual" they may seem or how much supposed Bible knowledge they may display (and after having studied the Bible so rigorously in the assembly, what nugget of knowledge could someone come up with that we haven't studied ourselves in some shape or form?)
There was a time when I figured that if someone was preaching from the scriptures they must be a good man that I should respect.  Sadly I have learned the hard way that this is not true.  Now we know by experience what Paul is talking about when he said that some preach out of selfish ambition.  This should be unthinkable, yet men do this wickendess.  Such men are, to me, most despicable.    

Now if there is a man who is truly like Jesus, I'd be impressed -- more than that, I'd be very encouraged in spirit to strive to be the same.  I'm talking about true humility, someone who's gentle, forgiving, merciful, kind, stands for the truth and loves all at the same time.  Please tell me such people exist.  Are there 7,000 that have not bowed the knee to Baal today?  Are there people who want to do that which is good and right, who relieve the oppressed, do justice to the fatherless, and plead for the widow?

"But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, and needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man."  John 2:24-25

Karen, Rachel, John and David.

Karen is absolutely correct, the purpose of this website IS to encourage and assist the wounded.  I think that this thread is proof of that.

David, you are welcome here.  You know that this Website exists to glorify the God of the Bible, and to help His people who have been hurt.  Even if you no longer have faith, you are still welcome here.  David, you are welcome to post about any topic you wish, as long as you don't use profanity, etc.  I have total confidence that you will never do this, as I have known you for many years.

John, you are also welcome here.  It is obvious that we have all been blessed by your contribution, and we will continue to be in the future.  You have the same right to post your mind as anyone else.

ditto to everyone else.  I will not censor this board, unless impersonation, blasphemy or profanity occurs.  I will use my own judgement on whether certain statements that blaspheme God are worthy to delete.

I think that the other users, like Karen,  will be able to make their own contributions in order to set things right, even as happened here in this example.

Over at the Lodge website, they screen every post, and only allow ones that make the website look good.  We will not have that kind of phoniness here.  If we are proud pharisees, it will show through.  If we are apostate, that will also be made apparent.  If we are men and women of faith, who love the Lord Jesus Christ, that will also be known.

Obviously, the latter is what we pray for.

God bless you all.

editor

I caught the post right before work and had no time to reply. Everyone else has done a fine job, so I have little to say. Sometimes we're like the boxer who has won the round, and the bell has rung; and we are still swinging away, disqualifying ourselves. Firstly, David is quoting others in his post. Secondly, he has clearly and honestly stated where he is at in terms of  faith, so he is not trying to trick anybody that I am aware of.
Also, what if there is a pathetic Roman Catholic who is an assembly-ex? Should he or she shrink away from participating in this site? This kind of attitude is very reminiscent of what many of us have left (I hope) behind. Still, it is better to be passionate about something rather than comfortably numb.
Yours,
Sebastian Andrew

Hi Everyone,

I was very shocked and too upset to write what I thought when I saw your post after midnight John.  I'm glad the others wrote what they did.  I would like to add a few things.

1.  I don't think he condemned Grace Bible Chapel.  He was referring to the assembly being legalistic.

2.  When you left, things were not nearly as bad as they are now.  Was there emotional assault?  Was there spiritual assault?  Was there physical abuse? (Yes!)  Was there physical assault?  You read correctly...there have been instances of physical assault on someone who entreated a LB.

3.  As you attacked him publicly, so I think you need to make it right with him.  He needs to know (especially from you) that he is welcomed on this website.  We are not exclusive like the lodge is.  :'(

Dave, I want you to know that your posts are appreciated on this website.  I still remember when we went on outreach together in 1993 in Seattle.  You always had a care for others.  That encouraged me!

The Lord bless you all,

Eric

I What???????   David, I have never visited Grace Bible Chapel.  I know what it is, but I don't know where it is.
I certainly said, and still do say, that the Assembly's legalism and control are "too much".  But I have never said anything like that about GBC.
Thomas Maddux, aka "oscar".

If you look a few posts back, someone asked about Tom Hyun and Steve Weiner.  I believe David M. was referring to them.

John,
It seems to me that an application of Col. 4:6 would be wise.
Tom Maddux

Well editor,
You've got your Greek-spouting heavy-hitter. The bell has already rung and he is still swinging. Profanity isn't just expressed through "naughty" words. Perhaps it's time to edit the advertisement referred to in our private correspondence? E-mail and telephone aren't sufficient when it comes to matters such as these.
You have a difficult, time-consuming job; and I appreciate your efforts.
Respectfully,
Sebastian Andrew

John Malone, forget being nice.  You make me want to vomit.  I wonder how many people you have turned off to Christianity with your vile hatred?

It is very interesting that you claim to have left the Lodge.  While you may not be there physically, your mind sounds as though it is firmly entrenched in the judgmental practices discussed on this Board.

You have a LOT of nerve calling anything anyone else writes arrogant, dishonoring, shameful crap.  REMOVE THY PLANK.

Karen M. Sanford

John:

I did not weigh in when you originally assaulted David (although, do you take the thoughts of a woman as equal to that of a man?)

How did Jesus treat those who were in need of the Savior?  What about the woman caught in adultery brought before the Pharisees?  What of the Samaritan woman at the well?  What about how he dealt with the man with the legion of demons in him?  Jesus had compassion on people John.  Not your "huggy-feely" type.  He met men and women exactly where they were.  

You think that by your words, condemning David, is going to "bring him to his senses"!  Wow! Are you wrong!  You've never said so, but, I suppose you are a parent.  I'm just beginning to throw out all my lodge parenting skills, which are very similar to how you dealt with David.  Christ said to "speak the truth in love".  Love is not lambasting someone.  It is caring for their souls in such a way, that we are different from the world.  How was the lodge any different from the worst drug addiicted or alchohol addicted relationship in the world?  What did this teach David?  It certainly didn't teach him who Christ is or that Christianity was something to embrace.  GIVE THE GUY A BREAK!  The Lord said, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."  I sure hope you get a mouthful the next time you sin!  Or, like George, do you say you never sin?

I hope what people find when they come to this BB is not the "huggy feely" compassion.  But that we are trying to expose the works of darkness of the lodge through our dialogue and that MAYBE those who are seriously wounded would begin to see that perhaps they threw out the baby with the bathwater.  MAYBE in this context, they will begin to reevaluate their current beliefs.  But when people like you treat them in the manner you treated David, they can't even hear you (it's just the same lodge logic, just couched in a different know-it-all spirituality.)

BTW-try reading his original post you were commenting on-he simply was conveying what SOMEONE ELSE SAID!  He didn't even endorse what SOMEONE ELSE SAID!  And you know what, even if he did, win the guy with love.  That's how each one of us was won by Christ.  We were not won by Christ shaking his finger at us and telling us how we had all of our doctrine wrong and we were hanging with demons.  I'm not a bible scholar but go read Romans 2.  God knows the state of David's heart and if David is to be won, it will be through showing him the love of God, not the condemnation and judgement that was typical of the Pharisee (who, by the way, Jesus was quick to call on the carpet for such behavior!)

OK, this is not a satirical post.

I am not here to tell people what is acceptable to write.  We have invited current Assembly members to share here.  What they have to say could be far worse than what John said.  Are we going to censor them?  No!  Are we free to comment? Absolutely, and it is obvious that many of us will.

David has not defended himself, and he has surely seen the post.  Shouldn't we all give him  a chance to say what he is going to say, before we decide whether he is "won or lost?"

Then there is the matter of the real point in all of this.  Again, at the Lodge BB, every post is pre-screened before it goes up.  Even then, some of them are removed if they hint at a problem.  The environment is false, and everyone knows it.  In contrast, this is real--at least as real as cyber-space can be--and people recognize that as well.

If I ban John, which I can do, it will only create a false unity, which is exactly what the lodge has.  If I ban David, because he has pulicly proclaimed himself to not be a christian anymore (he told me this) then we become exclusive and we rid ourselves of the very people we are trying to reach.  This is a ministry, but it is not a church!  We want unsaved and wounded people here, the more the better! Most ex-lodge are christians, and they are wounded, even some of the "strong" ones.  They are all welcome.

Neither one of them will be banned, or censored, with the exception of "naughty" words, impersonation or blasphemy. Regarding the latter, I will decide what needs to be removed.  I guarantee that John Malone is not going to blaspheme, neither is David Mauldin.

So, in the lodge, we would never have been allowed to speak up, like John is doing.  We coudn't "call out an apostate," because they were our leaders! We can here. We can also level criticism against one of our more vocal posters.  Interesting, John gave us "The Lodge," Geftakysites,  the some truly first rate thinking about all of this mess that most of us find ourselves sorting out.  Shall we crucify him?  For insensitivity?

Here's what you can do: ban his private messages, don't read his posts, and tell him what you think of him.  No problem.  However, he has the same right to do that, doesn't he?

So, this dialogue that we have been having is real. It is not censored, regulated spirituality, it is real folks saying what they really think.  I think it is awesome, in the truest sense of the word.

People are going to criticise us for what we are doing here.  Shall I remind you all to be "Good Examples?"  NO!  Be real.  Be a real good example, or a real bad example, but be real.

It is easier than we thought to become leading brothers isn't it?  I mean, I can delete all of this, ban a member, and police everyone's ability to express themselves in a few seconds, and some of us would like that.  Now we can see why we were so taken in by the Assembly.

Here is my personal opinion:

Let freedom ring.  Post whatever you like.  We will all learn many things from it all.  Also, sometimes people are good writers, but when you meet them in person, you find out that they aren't who you thought they would be from their writings.  Others, are not so good at writing, but when you meet them, you are amazed at how well they express themselves verbally.  The point is that our total personalities are not perfectly described by the few words we type here.   There is much more to each of us than our posts.


I challenge you all to call John, and speak to him in person, as I have.  I have also called David, although not since this "horrible attack" was launched against him.  Find out who these people are and it may help you to understand what is going on.  Do any of you know what David suffered in the Lodge?  How about John?  Do you have any idea what he went through?  I think it is unwise to judge either of them by a few sentences.  Comment and express displeasure?  By all means.  Take action and ban someone?  No way.

Also, this thread should be under any and all topics. This section is for finding people. Shall we continue the discussion over there?

This is by far the most real and important dialogue we have had to date on this board.  Thank you John and David for bringing it to our attention.

editor

PS  Everything being said about John has been said about me for writing the articles and putting them on the web.  The exact same words were used to discredit and demonize me.  Shall I delete everything and shut this down?  Certainly not!  Did I learn something about myself from all of the criticism...you bet.  John can learn as well, and David can too.  

Greetings:
I agree(for what it's worth) with the editor about banning in this case. Banning is not what was on my mind(editing, yes) in criticising Mr. Malone's posts. I reviewed everyone else's posts-I could be mistaken-and didn't find anybody advocating his removal. It's not my place to demand anything.
Freedom is great! It's what we do with that freedom by exercising self-restraint that preserves it.
Respectfully,
Sebastian Andrew

John, you totally took what David said out of context. If you had read the previous post (perhaps) you would have realized it.   So attacking him base on what you thought he said was totally uncalled for.

 He wasn't saying GBC was legalistic and controlling he was referring to the Lodge because that is the reason Tom H. and Steve W. left.  He was trying to help someone find them.

 >Re:Where is.....
>« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2002, 06:10:31 PM »  
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Tom and Steve visited Grace Bible Chapel while they were exiting Fullerton.  
>Both said the legalism and controle were too much.  People in the Plymouth
>bretheren assemblies were familiar with Steve (Minnessotta)  You might try
>them?
>


> Tom Hyun
>« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2002, 05:37:50 PM »  
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Does anybody remember Tom Hyun or Steve Weiner?  Many moons ago they
>lived in Fullerton.  If anybody has any idea where they are, I'd love to get in
>touch with you.

Rev 12:6  Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.

One thing I have learned from Brother George is that the enemy always oversteps himself.  Here you all are, attacking those who dwell in heaven, the overcomer bride of Christ, those upholding the testimony to Jesus.  And lo and behold, God has given you a spirit of confusion. Now you are attacking eachother.  Soon your plans will be destroyed, because God sustains His testimony, nothing shall prevail against it.

I would say ignore Mr. Malone(if he continues in the same fashion) and Guest. It will work wonders and is very economical at the same time.

Hello All!

I would like to respond to guest.  No one here is blashphemeing God, his name, his tabernacle, or those who dwell in heaven.

Most of us are Christians, who love Jesus.  Most of us are also reading the evidence on the main page.  If you look at the Bible, look at the evidence on the website, and look at the hundreds of stories and accounts on this BB, you get a compelling picture about what is actually going on.

A false brother has damaged the faith of many.  At the same time, a compassionate High Priest, Jesus, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, is standing by ready to forgive and heal.  This is the message of this website.  How is that blasphemy?  That, dear guest, is the gospel.

I think you should read http://www.geftakysassembly.com/persecution.html (http://www.geftakysassembly.com/persecution.html)

This will give you a little perspective on what real persecution is and is not.

Far from wanting people to deny Christ, we want to see people accept Him, and restore fellowship with Him that has been broken.  While doing this, we are sure to make asses of ourselves from time to time. After all, we were in the Assembly...

However, we know them by their fruit. We know the wisdom that decends from above because it is pure, peaceable, easily entreated.  People are free to post, and the rest judge.

Guest,  please explain how it is that George's ministry is referred to in Rev. 12.  Is it the remnant, or part of the other religion?  Or perhaps a mixture of both.  Please elaborate.

Brent

Dear Assembly guest,
You need to remember that we ALL , " have learned from brother George".  We're just farther along in our learning process than you are.  We all once would have agreed with you.  But our experiences and observations forced us to doubt the validity of his claims.
For example, George Claims that he has an apostolic ministry of "universal jurisdiction".  Now you may not understand what that means, but the truth is that he claims to be in charge of the whole Christian Church!  At least it does if his dictionary says what mine does.
Do you believe this?  Are you aware this claim is in his writings?
Did you ever ask, "How does he know this?"  "How do I know this is true?"  
As to your view we have fallen to "fighting among ourselves",  we do have a disagreement about something.  Among God's Freemen, this is allowed!  We are well aware that in the Assembly the one who got out of line would be reported to "God's Government" and corrective measures would be taken.  We have been there, and some of us have to shamefully admit that we have "done that".
So don't get your hopes up, we're still here, and we hope you will continue to read these boards, for we are fellow members of His Body with you.  
Your brother in Christ,
Tom Maddux

Dear Guest:

I find it interesting that the people who have been posting here, in the majority, who are, as you put it "attacking each other", are at least doing so with our identities revealed.  You won't even acknowledge who you are!  It is easy to "attack" people when you are hidden.  Is this because you don't want those in the Assembly to know you are monitoring this post (we know that assembly members have been warned to not view this website)?  Or is it that you don't really want people to know who you are?  That's the cowards way out!

But as to your believing that this is God causing us a "spirit of confusion" you couldn't be further from the truth.  I haven't had so much clarity in all my christian life.  For the first time, I have been allowed to think for myself.  And when I disagree with a brother (and btw John, even though I had harsh things to say to you this morning, I still love you as a brother in Christ) I am able to speak my mind, FULLY! I don't have to be a robot or Assembly drone!  I have liberty in Christ to speak my mind!

This has been a refreshing dialogue of believers in Christ!  You won't get that in the Assembly.  Rather, you are all supposed to be of one mind (and not the mind that you are thinking of, it is George's mind you are to support, not the Lord Jesus Christ.)

Hi All,
  Wow!  I leave for a week and the BB breaks out in controversy! :o
  Ain't free speech great!
   I would like to greet our guest and thank you for participating.  I do think, dear guest, that you should answer the questions others have mentioned re. your post so we can have a two way dialogue.  I would be particularly interested in knowing how God has been blasphemed by pointing out lies and abuses re. the Assembly as God is known as the God of truth.
   I also believe that we can not censure the posts' here(even insensitive one's) as we need to have an open forum for discussion.  I do not agree with John's "manner" as it is ungracious to attack David's rejection of the Christian faith.  There is no danger of David turning other's here to Buddha and away from Christ.  
    John, I don't think you can make a blanket statement re. the degree of personal responsibility of  those wounded in GG's ministry.  Gentleness and kindness to victims of such a group as the Assembly exhibits more the attitude of our Lord than does calling them names.  We must speak the truth, but it should be done in love, if it is to have restorative power.  The Galatians were encouraged to restore the fallen brother in the spirit of humility, considering their own weakness.  The idea is that biting and devouring one another doesn't help it only hurts.
   Some have been very deeply hurt from their participation in the Assembly; to the point of even suicide!  I hope David regains faith in Christ, but a smack in the psyche won't do the trick(he's had enough of that).
              IN TRUTH AND LOVE,  Mark

Dear Guest:
a wonderful thing about this website is the fact that ppl can express their ideas/feelings and discussion is allowed to take place w/o guilt, and  fear. I think it's fine to disagree.  The Lord Himself encouraged discussion with the ppl He was near. How else could He reach their inner need, if He wouldn't let ppl express their views of the truth? Not everyone agreed with the Lord. What did He do?  Did He whine, complain about them and say hurtful things about them? He staed and lived the Truth and He moved on, doing His Father's will for His life. Honestly I can't remember a time when I could openly share my ideas or concerns re: the Lodge w/o recrimination. There was never an open forum. Does the Bible state anywhere we shouldn't question and consider issues?
Your post (brief   :) hi Garth) sounds a bit over worked as 'lodgespeak'. The words are used so much it's easy to forget what they actually mean. The Lord is Over All and that includes ALL of His People.  I've heard over and over in my years with the Lodge 'our lives are a open book.' is that so currrently in the Lodge?
Last of all, remember the children in the Lodge. They've grown up with this behaviour of not being allowed to express their true ideas and feelings and having to stuff all that down and then outwardly perform obedience.  They are taught this is the Overcoming life.
We as adults allowed this abuse to hapen to us. No one forced me to attend at the start, or even to continue when  I had concerns. As my eyes are opened now, I make the choice to never let this happen to me again. It's children though that never had a choice. They need our love and care as they grow hopefully out of the Lodge scene. They need our prayer and understanding.
Thanks to the editor for this great web site.

John,
I lOVE the "special assistant to the thermostat steward'  designation!
That Thermostat got more attention that most of the ppl attending the mtg. Sisters were allowed to open windows and turn on the fan if so directed.  :o Wowsers! (OOHHHH but never touch the Thermostat)

To the Guest:

     Its so interesting what you posted.  Its almost as if I am sitting in a meeting.  And you have learned more than you think from George.  That is obvious...but maybe not for you.  You are in denial if you think that just because we are not "in fellowship" there that we are not in fellowship with the Lord.  The Lord is indeed leading those of us who have left.  You, guest, are in denial if you think that it is the enemy who is stating that George has been "in the dark" about his son beating his wife and granddaughter.  These things posted here are facts that have happened to people that were involved under George.  If it is God's testimony that condones wife beating, child beating, harassment, etc... then you are a blasphemer of the true Testimony to Christ.  That is not God's testimony to beat, harass, or brainwash,...YOU NEED TO SEEK OUT THE TRUTH!!!!  GOD'S TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.  You are in bondage to a ministry that supports those very things that Christ
condemns!  WAKE UP!

I would very much like the "Guest" to reveal his/her true identity.  

John,

Um...no, I'm not kidding.   Go on quiz me, ask me what book of the Bible comes between Haggai and Zechariah.  Hehe. :D  So...do you think you have an excellent knowledge of the sacred scriptures?  Do you think you know more than most if not all of us on this board?  Well here's a couple verses with which you must be familiar -- I Cor 8:1b-2 and just in case you don't know it, heheh  ;D , I'll quote it for ya "...knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.  And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know."
To be sure, none of us have complete knowledge or perfect understanding.  Of course we all have much more to learn.  What I meant in that post was that by virtue of the fact that everyone in the group religiously reads the Bible many hours a week and some even meditate on it much more, then you must agree that each person, with some exceptions no doubt, would have at the very least a basic familiarity with the Bible, its main stories, important verses, etc.  Of course we know that the degree of both knowledge and understanding depends on the individual.  I mean think about it, if I read a Physics book an hour a day for five times a week for even say five years, I'd at least pick up that E=mc^2.
Now, if you are referring to a typical "Geftakysite's" understanding of the scripture, then perhaps you have a point since some of the doctorine was in error.  But I'd like to say, that the fact that some of the doctorine taught was off does not mean that the truth could not be known.  Paul said that even though some people preached Christ out of contention he rejoiced that Christ was preached.  Pastor Wormbrand of Romania writes in his book Tortured for Christ that people have been saved by reading the scripture in anti-Christian Soviet propaganda that was intended to make fun of that same scripture. One verse that stuck with me during all my time in the assembly was what Jesus said, "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

And, if I may say, John, that, being a studious Bible scholar such as yourself, you should know that the most excellent way set forth in the scripture is that of love.  Love is of far greater importance than knowledge.  I agree with what you said in a previous post, that there cannot be love without truth.  And what is the truth?  The truth is that Jesus showed his love not in condemning people (though it is interesting to note that he did have harsh words for the Pharisees) but by laying down his life for us to be the propitiation for all of our sins!  As it is written, "but God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Guest

Welcome to real life.  In the world outside the assembly, so-called "unity of mind" or "unity of spirit" is not enforced as it is in the assembly.  In the assembly, one may boast, "we are all of one mind!"  Now ask yourself why that is.  Is it because everyone in the assembly, as individuals, are constrained by the love of Christ or by the Holy Spirit to think the same way?  Or is it because of brainwashing and mind control?  Now before you answer "the Holy Spirit, of course" think about it.  Do you see gentleness?  Do you see mercy?  How about kindness?  Self-sacrificial serving by the leaders?  Joy?  What exactly is it that you are all agreeing upon?  That you need to meet on Wed night at 6:45pm for preprayer, then 7pm for the Bible Study?  Or how about that you are united on the fact that the chairs must be placed in a semi-circle and women must wear head coverings?  How bout that you are united in the understanding that no one must criticize George and the ministry?  Or maybe it is that we need to be loyal, unquestioning, available, willing to do anything, and...hey you guessed it, united?  If that is the case, then please know that that is mind control typical in cults and not the Holy Spirit.
Guest, the assembly is like a virtual world.  The real world is a harsh place, but God is in control. His Holy Spirit is not locked up in the assembly.  Many Christians have differing opinions on things, but what unites us is that we believe that Jesus died for our sins, rose again on the third day and is coming again to take us to be with Him forever! We love one another, despite differing opinions.  The verse you quoted (Rev 13:6) talks about the beast blaspheming God.  Be honest.  Do you think we are the beast?  Do you believe that by exposing the evil deeds of wicked men we are blaspheming God?   Come to your senses.  Know that the Heavenly Father is there waiting for you with open arms.  He truly does care for you, and he takes care of his sheep unlike these cruel shepherds.  He will bind your wounds and heal your heart. Softly and tenderly Jesus is calling...

He meant girly man preacher.  Hulk SMASH girly man preacher!!!!!

OK, alrighty then, it's time for another time-out to discuss the wild and whacky world of John J. Malone, Sr.  (John, is there a junior?  He is not into debate is he? Scary thought.)

People, listen up.  John seems to be turning into a rather controversial fellow around here these days.  He says things that aren't nice.  He also says things that are pretty amazing...

He is an arrogant jerk--according to many.  Yet he has a bunch of kids and grandkids who hang out at his house.....

He is an idiot!  Yet he also has some pretty amazing insight into the scriptures.  

He is blunt, bordering on rude......
He is smart and has a method to his madness.

I have spoken with him on many occasions, and he has never treated me in any way that wasn't gracious.  On the keyboard, he comes off as a donkey's hindquarters, on the phone he is a teddy bear. I am not kidding.

Do I know what he is doing here? NO!  I am really intrigued to find out however.  He is a really different guy, for sure.

This BB is unique, and John is a big and loud part of it.

John, can you tone it down for one post and tell us what's up?

editor

Perhaps this is true.  However, for the purposes of this BB, he is a girly man, and...

Hulk SMASH girly man!!!!

Girly men..


Don't make me angry.  You wouldn't like me when I'm angry....[/size]

I saw the video to this once. I think this is a "girl" preacher.

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/suzannehinn.htm (http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/suzannehinn.htm)

John,

I do not know you very well.  What I do know is that you make generalizations about people (you call them Geftakysites) that you do not even know.  In some of the posts responding to what I wrote, I take it you are referring to me when you talk about Geftakysites.  I'm not a Geftakysite, nor a former one.  I am me.  Not only do you make generalizations, but you are somewhat abrasive in some of the things you say.  You speak as if you have understanding in such matters.  You speak as if you are an authority.  Is it wise to make such comments when you do not really know the certainty of what you say?  Do you know why I like Nike tennis shoes or the color blue?
It seems that our experiences in the group were very different.  Consider the fact that just possibly other people have different perspectives and different experiences than you.
You know that I, too, was in the assembly for only five years.  I grew up in a Christian home and went to a private Christian school K-12 and went to a CRC until I was about 20.  
I joined the group because they were preaching the word and knew their Bibles.
Now you may say,  "You were totally decieved and they are a bunch of charlatans".  Well, these "charlatans" knew their Bible better than anyone I knew.  They had answers for my questions and they showed it to me from the Bible. I've had my doubts on some of what they said and I took everything with a grain of salt.  I've heard this perspective and that perspective in and out of the assembly, and all I can say is that, nobody has the right answer (the definitive, all-wise and understanding answer). Not even you. Do you have absolute understanding?  Please tell me what I should invest in then :D
Are you pretrib? post?  Calvinist?  Does this really matter.  Once again I'd like to reitterate that which you have down-played.  The main message of the Bible is the love of God, and Lord knows I've got a long way to go to learn that. :)  

Hello everyone:

In my opinion we are being treated as children here. Things like whack John Malone over here and the apologetics re. him and how we should "interpret" him are  all beside the point. Form your own opinion and move on. This childishness isn't worth too much time.

Hi John,
  I think the verse in Gal. is perfectly applicable re. how to respond to David.  I think "exhort" would be possibly too strong a word for what I was desiring to communicate to you in my previous post.  How bout' I would like to invite you to consider a wider application of the passage in question?  Yes, entreat might be a better word.  Of course we can split hairs on what the word "is" really means and never have to be entreated.
 Come on!  The Word of God is clear we are to show care and compassion for those who are out of the way (now I'm exhorting).  The obvious application of the verse is we are to  seek RECOVERY of the fallen and not split theological hairs as to the nature of the fall.  Of couse we wish to recover the fallen to the truth, but not in a prideful and judgmental attitude that is condescending.
  In the Gospels we see our Lord responding to the "know-it-all-scripturally-sound-pharisaical-crowd" with harsh words and going out to the sinners and yes even heretics(Samaritan Woman) with words of Gospel grace.  Yes, Jesus reminded the Samaritan Woman by the well that she was a heretic, but also with great love gave her the gospel.  
  To question whether there is some technical reason for not applying compassion to a fallen brother vs. a  unregenerate person is to narrow the interpretation of scripture to a ridiculous level and to make argument in a purely defensive manner that has no desire to really understand the truth.
                    In truth and grace,  Mark  

John,
You said in one of your posts that when people leave the Omaha Assembly that they go to a "big mustard tree" church and get into such things as "cable tv and christmas trees".
I was in the assembly for 18 or 19 years and left 13 years ago.  I have noticed that there are three basic ways people leave the assembly, (and probably other similar groups).  One is to identify the assembly with Christianity and reject both, ie, to fall away.  A second is to leave the assembly and George Geftakys, and then to find or found some other group that expresses the same type of critical, exclusive, legalistic ideas as George does.  In other words, they leave George but take him along in their attitudes.  Unless, of course, the attitude was there already.
I once had a conversation with a man who was in this type of group.  He was from Omaha, and  I believe you knew him.  A dear brother, but very critical of others.  Once I was talking to him and he was making sweeping, condemning statements about "these churches".  
I asked him, "How many churches have you actually been to?"  He tried to avoid answering, but finally said, "three".
I told him that that sample is a tad small to be able to make generalizations about 30,000,000 American Christians alone, not to speak of all the rest.  He admitted that "There is something in what you are saying."
The third way, John, is to learn about God's grace, and about how to be gracious.  And yes, we usually do these things at what you call "big mustard tree" churches. This, by the way, is an understanding of one of Christ's parables that is very popular among Plymouth Bretheren assemblies.  That's where George got it I'm sure.
By the way, we call them healthy, growing churches.
God bless,
Tom Maddux

John,  

I think you may have a point here in this one post quoted above, let's think about this.  You are saying that David is a Christian (one who "named the Lord Jesus Christ - presumably following him in water baptism), and that now he is no longer following Jesus but serving the demon Buddha, and that makes him an apostate.  Well, what can we say?  It is true.  I am hopeful that perhaps the reason David took this course is because leaving the assembly makes one have serious doubts about things and makes things confusing, and that the possibility exists that he may come back to the truth.  
Have you totally written him off?  Couldn't he come back to the Lord Jesus?  I think that is why myself and others have exhorted you to be more kind.  Have you passed final judgment on the man?  Wouldn't it be better to try to win him back to Christ by showing His same unconditional love?
Now you may say, no, we must not be friendly to the enemy.  But who is the enemy?  Satan of course.  We wrestle not with flesh and blood...  So this man's soul is in the balance.  Or do you think he is lost with no possibility of return?  Don't we all have a chance until the day we die?
Maybe I'm wrong here.  This is one thing I still have a question about, so if you can, please enlighten us.  You know how the Bible talks about false prophets, I'm talking about II Pet 2 and Jude, among others.  Are these men born to be bad?  You know, like Judas, the son of perdition.  It was better if he wouldn't have been born.
This reminds me of some of the leaders in the assembly.  I grew up in a Christian home and was continually surrounded by Christians most of my life.  It wasn't until I joined the assembly and then left that I found out that there were such men in existence as described in the Bible as "wolves in sheep’s clothing".  To me, it was unthinkable that a person could use the Good News for selfish purposes. Now, I've had a taste of what evil a man can do. It's sickening.  To me that is the worst possible thing a person could do, this spiritual abuse -- using another man's basic belief in God to control him and extort him for personal gain.  Isn't that the very thing for which Jesus so harshly upbraided the Pharisees?
If anyone fits the II Pet 2 description I think it would be some assembly leaders and not David M.  I think there is still hope for him.  He's not pretending to be a Christian and yet living as a Buddhist.  As for the assembly leaders, I'm not sure.  It would be great if they repented and I sure hope that would happen, but I'm thinking that is just the nature of the beast.  I hope I'm wrong.

These are some heavy words, and their weight has increased with experience:
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.  And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.  And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.  
II Pet 2:1-3

freebird!  I love you bro.  Yes, blow the trumpet! These walls are coming down!
Please put up with a little of my quibble won't you? I think it is important for us, I think you'll agree, to help think these things through.  To put it in the words of Tom C.  "I want the truth!"  I am very much enjoying hearing all of your thoughts on this.  This is great!

Mark, I just now read this.  There are so many posts on this board--it's huge.  Excellent post, brother.

Greetings in the Lord Jesus Christ--this is not flippant.

I figured out what John was up to today, while listening to a "man" preacher, to whom The Lord has committed the scriptures.

When I first left the Lodge, the Lord Himself slapped me hard, way harder than John is slapping us here.  He showed me that I was a Pharisee, and that I was blind and proud.  Of course, blindness and pride make it kinda difficult to really understand the Bible---exactly like a JW scholar to be precise.

So, I wrote about this experience, which is on the website, far down the list of articles.  I am a former Pharisee.  Although I have regained my sight, I have not regained my knowledge, because I never had any to begin with!

After my humiliation, God began to use me, through my writing.  That is why we are all here.  Some of you may know that this is "my" website.

My writings were criticised. I was called unloving, arrogant, a liar, a know it all, basically everything that John is being called.  Some of you used to call me that, but you have repented. Some people reading this are still calling me the Enemy, etc.

So,  what John is doing, is HELPING, yes I said HELPING, us to avoid escaping the lodge, only to fall into the moat that surrounds the lodge.  His method is abrasive, direct, and blunt.  There are other ways to say it, but there is only one John Malone, for which we thank God. One is enough, two is two too many.

If you edit out the stuff that tweaks you, and look at what he is actually saying, you will find that you agree with him.  for example:

"Girl Preachers"--do any of you want a woman leading your church?  Think of Betty G.  WE AGREE WITH YOU JOHN! even if you are an arrogant @#$%$.!!!

Apostates---a harsh word, that John made up from his own imagination? NO! It is a Biblical term, with a very clear and serious meaning.

I could go on and on.  We are reacting to what we think he is saying, not what he is actually saying.  

John is the Rush Limbaugh of GA.com

Is is a big, loudmouthed, arrogant, harmless fuzzball.

Give him a chance, think about what he says--Tell him you think he is out to lunch---and everyone will get along just fine.

The alternative is to censor him in Lodge fashion.

John, You are a bull on steroids, loose in the Lodge China factory!  Run baby, Run! Yahoo!!!

The rest of us, keep this jerk in check. Tell him what you think, but make sure you address what he is saying.  John needs our help.

What do you say dear saints?  Amen

Editor

Do you have an answer to my questions? Talk about girly preachers.   Answer the direct question and don't get flowery.  Speak to the point mister.

1. Do all people have a chance to repent until the day they die? And by implication, we therefore cannot write anyone off and pass a final judgement on them? For that matter, is it our place to judge?

2. Are people born bad?  I'm not talking about our sinful nature I'm talking about: are some people just plain false prophets, false teachers,  etc. and that's what they are, that's what they were destined to be, no way of changing it?

3. What is your take on how we should deal with apostates?  Treat them as enemies or hope for their repentence?

4.  Is there a difference between someone like David M and George G?

Please show me the scriptures.  Thank you.

Oscar:
Thank you for your wisdom and example. You were able to state truth not only here but by telephone years ago to me with grace. Truth and grace can seem to be mutually exclusive sometimes, but they needn't be.

John,

Since you seem to think women should not "teach" the scriptures, what is, in your opinion, our role?  And what is the biblical support?

I am, as a women, interested to know.

Rachel

Thank you for the answers, John.

Hey John,
Good to hear from you.  I enjoy fan mail.
It sure is wonderful to be among the Last Faithful Few.
The Holy Remnant, those who have not bowed the knee to Baal.  A Community of Light and Life in a sea of darkness.
I've been there and done that John.  I got over it. I have learned something of God's wonderful grace.  I think most of us on these boards have.  
You should give it a try.
By the way, I put up a prelimenary reply to your nice little message of 12/22 under the new thread about answering John Malone Sr.
God bless,
Tom Maddux

Mr Malone needs to edit out his address re. SHOULD I TALK to Charity. This sets a bad precedent for this website when men invite girls to their home, and it doesn't look good.

John,


That's great John!  Except this forum is for the healing of those who have left the assembly.  It's available to everyone.

Hi Greg! :)
  I just talked with Marc Arambula last week; would you like his phone number?  I told him about the site, but his monitor is broken and he can't use his computer right now.
  Dave Reveley, last I heard, was going out as a missionary with his wife.  He was living in Portland Oregon.  I gave Eric his parents phone number (it was a very old number and I don't know if it was good) to try and track him down.
               Merry Christmas and God Bless,  Mark

 We must speak the truth, but it should be done in love, if it is to have restorative power.  The Galatians were encouraged to restore the fallen brother in the spirit of humility, considering their own weakness.  The idea is that biting and devouring one another doesn't help it only hurts.
   

This is my very first post, and it is only to say that I did not author the previous post with my name on it!!!!

Hi Renee,
  It was a fine quote, even though it wasn't yours, and one to be proud of.
   Welcome, and please feel free to share what it is you really did want to say.
                                       God Bless,  Mark :)

Thank you Mark,

 My name is Maureen Mancuso.  I have been married to Mark Mancuso the past 8 years, and the late Roger Diercks prior to that.  Many of you may not have known Roger, and wouldn't still, apart from the little that has been written by Tom Maddux and John Malone.  But, it was my late husband who delivered me out of the Lodge in 1983. I came out reluctantly because I didn't see.   My vision was a little murky because I was pursuing a place of esteem among you all; we were workers -in- training at the time.  Now, of course, I am so grateful  to Roger for leading me out. And since then, the Lord has been faithful to surround me with men who are students of the Word of God.  For that I am very grateful.

Hello to all the people @ Geftakysassembly.com,
A friend is letting me borrow his PC to write a short note.
What I have been reading is very interesting.
I'm sure glad for those who have gotten out of this group. I was always getting an earful about it so I have tried to read all the posts and it's taken quite a while :P!
This guy who is attacking all the time is a fruitcake. From what I
 have read isn't the past being used against you years later a tactic that the cultists use? Not to mention that the veracity of the remarks is open to  question? A good website otherwise. Wish everyone the best.
eric
I