- The Six Week Challange?

Brent,

May I ask why this article inferes that those of us who have not left the assembly are incapable of knowing what God wants for us? I agree with 98% of the things that have been brought up on these boards and I have been given a sense of liberty in speaking my mind to the LB's and infront of whom ever I wish. I also know that the "warning flags" are up now and I will be watching the goings on in this gathering much more closely and responsibly. However, I have been given a promise from God about staying. I hope, brother, that you will cease to belittle "us" for choosing to stay. Your article basically dictates to us that we don't know the will of God and that ,in your opinion, God's will for us is to take a vacation. I do not mean this as an attack or insult in any way, but I did think your Six Week Challange was patronizing.

Stacy

Stacy, I don't think Brent was trying to be patronizing but realistic. I was involved for over 20 yrs. in fellowship and left in good standing. I think that people do need to take a step back and look from the outside in. My family has been gone for almost 2 yrs. and my husband & I still wrestle with guilt over things we were taught that we no longer believe. For example: we were told and you felt the pressure of the idea there is no place at all like the assemblies, it's impossible to find God in other places like you could here. This is just one example. I have many, many experiences myself & from watching what others have gone thru over the years, agree that it's going to be hard to see the kind of permanent changes that are needed for the long term. The mindset that has permeated the assy's is one that is severe and not easily done away with.

As one who was involved for 15 years in everything (and David K will attest to this fact ;) ) it took a long time after leaving to feel and think somewhat 'normally' again.

When I read Brent's 'six-week challenge' I know that it's a reasonable thing to consider and not condescending at all - because Brent is asking people involved in an entire system to take a short break from that system, and re-examine it in view of what is best for you.

What you call a 'vacation' may be just the opportunity for God to open your eyes to what was really going on with the lives of precious people for many years. I agree with Toni that from the 'outside', the thinking is very difficult to change, and from the 'inside' others (such as Brent) seem to be on the 'attack', when all they are are pointing out the need to reconsider your premises. It's not possible when still under the influence of others to reexamine these premises objectively from the 'inside'.

Thus the call for a six-week period of re-examination. It's something worthwhile to consider - you may begin to see some new things you didn't see before.

Dale

Dear Stacy, Dale, Tony, Dave

The scales fell off my eyes on July 4th, 2000.
It boils down to this,

It is a six week challenge, not a six week command, or burden. That's why I called it a challenge as opposed to a dictate. It's a challenge.

If God intends to end the Geftakys ministry, which seems a reasonable assumption, then continuing to meet won't accomplish too much.

However, If God intends to raise up something new and beautiful from the ashes, how will taking six weeks off, for the purpose of seeking His face, undistracted by all the old habits, noise, inputs and training hinder His purpose?

You can't go wrong with this, unless you are afraid that the gathering will fall apart in your absence. If you are praying, fasting and drawing near to Him, how is this going to make His church fall apart?

It won't.

Don't take the challenge if it worries you.

Brent

"So, I challenge every gathering that is seeking whether to continue meeting, or who should lead, or what the new dress-code should be, or whether one Geftakys doctrine or the other is correct, to take six weeks off. Get total separation and retreat from the dysfunctional Assembly culture. Go apart, and seek the Lord. Get counsel from other Christian leaders. Visit other churches. Walk on the beach with your family."

I can see your point, and for those who have not sought God's will in light of thier involvement, by all means seek Him. I suppose my perspective is that the entire gathering in Arcata is doing exactly what is quoted here. We have separated from the entire ministry, we are getting counselling from local pastors (they have been so gracious and loving and helpful) we are invited and inviting other christians to share ourselves with one another, there have been those among us who know the Lord is leading them elsewhere and for once we are rejoicing with them. We are experiencing liberty and hope like we haven't in the 12 years I have been involved. So, I felt like, "sheesh, I'm repenting as fast and furiously as I can, why and what must I do to please you." If a person doesn't know what God's leading is regarding their involvement, then I agree. Get yourself up to the mountain top, fast and seek God's direction. However, if a person is assured that the Lord still has them involved in the location he or she is in, then go for it, take responsibility for that and go from there.

I would like to suggest that those who take Brent up on his "six week challenge" spend part of those 6 weeks studying some of the material on this web site:
http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/
There is so much good material there that I don't think anybody would be able to get through even half of it in 6 weeks, so I would particularly recommend the material on this page:
http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/calvinism/L.asp
(note: I have not read everything on this site, there is simply too much material and I have too little time. I do not necessarily agree with every viewpoint expressed, and it is always good to "search the Scriptures to see if these things are so." Read with discernment.)

Another alternative would be to read the book "A Price for a People" by Tom Wells. It is available for $3.75 at Trinity Book Service:
http://www.trinitybookservice.org/16238.html
It is the best short and simple book on the death of Christ that I have come across so far. Even if you do not want to accept all of his conclusions, I don't think you can avoid being blessed by his discussions of the wonderful things that the Lord Jesus Christ has done for His people (at least not if you are a child of God and read it with an open mind).

Anyway, just thought I would chime in and make this suggestion. I think it would be a good idea even for those who don't take Brent up on his "six week challenge" or who have already left "the assemblies."

May the Lord richly bless ALL of you!

Love in Christ,
H

I remember having lunch with a brother in my new church. I was shortly out of the Assembly and I was excited about ministering without the constraint and micromanagement of the Assembly leadership. I don’t know what he saw in my tone of voice, my enthusiasm, my actions, but he said, “Maybe you need to wait a bit, enjoy the church and let yourself heal.”

I was insulted. What did he mean? I thought through everything. I was ready to go.

Time vindicates things. A couple of years ago, I was at a foster care class. A teacher spoke of her divorce and in the course of the class mentioned that it took her six years before she could talk civilly with her ex-husband – the emotional baggage was so great. I caught her after the meeting as I was interested. That “six years” rang true because it took me about six years before I no longer felt I had to talk to people about this “strange group” I was in. It was that long before I stopped feeling that outreach and prayer meetings and personal devotions had to feel just like what I experienced in the old group and that I was responsible to help see it happen. It was that long before I gave myself permission to take up the hobby of writing for a publication that was not expressly Christian. It was that long before I stopped feeling guilty whenever a pastor wanted to meet with me for fear he was going to “exhort” me about something I was doing wrong.

In my article “My Thoughts on an Assembly Afterlife”, I discuss the fact that though we may think through the Assembly issues on an intellectual level, there are things that are tied to our primal emotions and feelings. We don’t shed this by staying in the pot. Rather, by getting out and experiencing other perspectives on what “normal” is like.

All that to say, Brent is not being patronizing or commanding. He is giving a challenge that means that he is giving a strong, educated suggestion that is optional for his hearers. (The offense comes because in the Assembly a “challenge” literally meant “do this or else”. Stacy, I am not trying to be patronizing, but your emotional reaction only demonstrates why a break is necessary.)

The bottom line is that it is up to you. Personally, I think six weeks is too short. I would recommend that people go to established churches to learn what “normal” is instead of staying within the splintered groups trying to sort out what is “good” and what is “bad” (with very little objective basis upon which to do that).

But again, it’s up to you what you do and I would respect whatever decision you make.

When I told Betty that I needed a vacation, I remember her telling me "What? Do you need a vacation from God?"
Words like that may still be hanging over people's heads who are still in the groups.
After I left, I slept for six months (of course, getting up to go to work and such, but you get the idea). I think everybody needs to get some good sleep and rest. Its kinda like how in II Chronicles, the Israelites didn't allow the land to enjoy its Sabath rest for many years...well, there was a lot of catching up to do--to the tune of seventy years. ;) Heh, ok, just an anaology.

I think six weeks may not be long enough. I've been out almost two years now and I'm still learning more about things that were wrong there. And I was in the group for only five years.

On the other hand, despite what most people are saying, I think that the assembly added something precious and unique to the body of Christ. I loved the worship times. I haven't found anything comparable. I don't like the big bands in front. You can put down the stones now. Let's hear everyone lift up praise to God for how great he is and what great things he has done. I like the old hymns of the faith sung in simplicity, not these new-fangled songs that sound just like what you hear on secular radio.
I think it's great that all the believers come together to pray and study the Bible regularly.
I think it's great to go out and tell the good news to the lost and see them won for Christ.
I think it's great that not just one man does the job of preaching and being a shepherd, but that all are encouraged to read their Bibles, mature in the Lord, and learn to care for one another.

I have found in many churches, that there is a very low expectation for what it means to be a Christian. People who have been Christians for years still do not know that Luke follows Mark. This is a shame! This is not what I read in the Bible that at Christian should be. What happened to "If you continue in my word, you shall be my disciples indeed, and you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." In how many churches do you see that people are not set free? How many do you see that are on the other extreme of the assembly in that they do not exercise church discipline at all, and many members are engaging in sexual immorality, among other things?
If Christians were doing what they should have been doing and reading the Bible, I think that I, as a young man growing up in a Christian home and in a Christian church, would have been instructed more properly in the faith, so that I wouldn't have to turn to a group like the assembly for answers to basic spiritual questions. No! I can't say that other places of fellowship are all that peachy either.

But I must say that I have found something very dear in individual Christians that I have met from a variety of churches and all walks of life. And that is Christ in them that I see. It, or He rather, is a most wondrous and beautiful thing. To see humility, mercy, kindness, goodwill, joy, love and other such things in this wretched world of hate, cruelty and deceit, is like seeing a diamond among coal, or a rainbow after a storm.

As for other churches, I can't say that the other places that I've been involved with, both before and after the assembly have been soo much deeper in love and more profound in spiritual maturity than the assembly. I am glad for them, but I was also glad for what the assembly had to offer, minus the leaven of George of course. No question about it, there are some serious doctrinal errors and cult-like problems there, but that's not all that I remember about the place. There were so many good things too. Do you remember the good times that you had with your friends there? The sweet times of fellowship, sharing about the Lord? Why forget about the good things, or throw them out with the bad?

That's my take.

Just a side comment. One reason why it seems like there is a low expectation for Christianity in mainline churches is the fact that they aproach ministry differently.

The Assembly was a magnet for the ultra-committed and idealistic. Most people, if they didn't have an ideal cause, would not submit themselves to sitting on metal folding chairs all day on Sunday. If you weren't up to the full weeks commitment (of meetings and personal disciplines), you generally didn't join the Assembly in the first place.

Mainline churches, on the other hand, have to work with the hand that is dealt them. They get everything from the pew sitters to the radical missionaries and everything in between.

The issue is not that mainline churches don't have a high expectation. Its just that they don't tend to discomfort those who don't measure up. They allow for people to make personal choices in balancing their committment to church activities, family, work, and recreation.

Yes Dave. That's right and a good way of putting it. That freedom of choice was and is appreciated. It was wrong for us, me, to at times, not always, wonder at why people weren't getting it and expect them to see it as I did. I was idealistic, I confess it. But is that so bad? :) Criticizing others was, yes. But to hold ideals, I don't think so.
I guess most of our personalities had that zealous or idealistic bent in the first place. Perhaps that is why I enjoyed being with people in the assembly so much. I found comaraderie and people who thought the same way that I did. It was so cool! My dad and I were really into playing chess at one point, and then we found a chess club in the city near where we lived. How cool was that?! Same thing for me with the assembly. And this was like the ultimate because it dealt with the most important issue in life--God and eternity. It was like a dream come true to be with sincere, God-following believers that did everything they did "because the Bible says right here." Really sucks that there was that leaven.

I think that this is what it boils down to.
Having hopes and dreams and aspiring for the best isn't evil. George's leaven was. No need to stop dreaming because of one bad nightmare. How about we just leave George's leaven behind, learn from it, and keep on hoping and reaching higher?
And now we've learned not to be so insistent on how we see it, but to love and be understanding, since we know a little bit about being wronged by over-zealous men.
But I still have my ideals...somewhere..I think they're surfacing again. ;) I hope I still have a dream or two left.

I like how Dave put it. It isn't about having cookie cutter christians. It doesn't all have to look one way. We are all different (and by the way-God created us that way-different.)

And Arthur, I happen to like the band thing going on up at the front. ;D I HATED the assembly accapella, no harmony, no musical instruments, hymn kinda thing......but that's just it. We all have different kinds of personalities. We like different kinds of music. It doesn't make "hymns" bad or "choruses" bad either. It is simply........preference. So go to a church (and there are different kinds of churches out there) that fits your "personality type".

When my husband and I were looking for a church, one weekend we went to a babtist church. Though they had musical instrument accompaniment (more like orchestra) it was your fundamental hymn style (probably right up your alley, Arthur.) It didn't appeal to me (liked the preaching though.) We visited an EV Free church the following weekend, which had the Chorus style band "going on up front" kind of worhsip and I was in my element.

I believe the difference is that different music does something in your soul. Hymns don't do anything for me. I always had a hard time enjoying them. But the music we sing in our worship service now, which I really enjoy, it in turn causes me to worship God in a way I never felt with the assembly. It's better felt than telt, so to speak. Hope this helps.

You know that is so funny. I can see what you're saying, and you're not the only one who has told me that. And I believe you guys. For me it was totatlly different. I was in my element when I experienced the assembly-form of worship. For me it was like "This is it!!" And I can tell you why it does it for me. Having no musical accompaniment, only the human voice, allowed me to focus on the powerful and thoughful words of the hymn. And singing only from our voices satisifies my conscience as being the pure form in which to convey my spirit's praise to God. It is, to me, a stark contrast to the rockish (and I see it as worldly) kind of church music of this age. I find singing a simple song with my voice and thinking about the words completely fullfilling.
Interesting huh? Well, my mind is not made up on what to make of this new form of worship that seems to have arisen in the 70's. I, personally, don't want to worship that way. I will say this though, I totally dig Kieth Green! ;D But he was one of kind. I know of no other like him in the Christian music industry. Seems like most are out for the money and fame. For him, it was all about Jesus. Speaking about guys who were ideal, he was about the most fanatical person I've ever heard about.

I have to agree that much music today is Worldly.

A theme I'm starting to get from this board is that ANYTHING is alright, as long as it conflicts with assembly teaching. There IS a carnality to Christianity today, and there is MUCH deceit and wickedness in Christianity -- EVEN places OUTSIDE OF GEORGE'S MINISTRY (you can almost hear the <GASP>)

In fact, while I'm on my soapbox I'll mention -- not EVERY BODY that has left the "lodge" has left because of gg's teaching and the "assembly way". There ARE people that are carnal christians, and left for issues they would have WHEREVER they went (again, a loud, silient <GASP>). And yes, some are posting on this board now as "authorities in sprituality" -- okay NOW I crossed the line ....

BUT -- in light of music -- just because SOME is worldly does NOT mean there hasn't been a Godly spiritual song written since 1850 -- there ARE good worship hymns that are written in our day and age.

J. Vernon McGee once said that when Satan fell from heaven, he landed in the choir loft. Therefore, I tread lightly when it comes to a discussion of worship styles.

I am not exactly sure what people mean when they say, “that music is worldly”. Unless an angel whispered the tune in someone’s ear, all songs were derived by some physical means and find its origin in an author who lives in this world and was influence by his cultural tastes in rhythm and style. Or does the term mean that worldly music seems to support Satan’s administration more than Christ? If so, I am not always sure how to tell the difference between this song sung in church and that one.

Music is a neutral medium. It is used to convey thoughts and emotions.

The question of whether a worship song is good enough depends on whether or not it is accomplishing its purpose.

Most people who tend to be thinkers (and less feelers) gravitate towards some of the classic hymns because the thrust of hymns is to put clear affirmations of God’s truths to music. I remember one time at a Men’s retreat sitting in the chapel and thinking line by line through Charles Wesley’s “And Can It Be That I Should Gain”. I probably spent over an hour on that hymn mulling over each phrase in my mind. Those who enjoy doctrinal truths about God codified in expressive language enjoy hymns for that reasons. It causes them to think higher thoughts about God.

Those who enjoy the emotional uplift tend towards some of the more contemporary choruses. If you look at the words of the very popular “Shout To the Lord”, the words really don’t say much of real depth. But the emotional crescendos of the song helps one lift up their hands and feel as if their very inner being is being poured out before a loving God. To them, worship is the inner experience of pouring out their emotions to God.

Which is right? Maybe both. It seems that both can find their justification in the command to love God with our heart, souls, and mind. In times of meditation, use a meditative hymn. In times of delight, strike up the band and sing out a celebration.

The question isn’t “is this song right” or “is this song wrong”. It is “what is this song trying to accomplish?” And is the thing it is trying to accomplish a worthy goal?

When you try and cast a song as “worldly” or not “worldly”, you are really not talking about the song but whether or not the purpose of the song is a worthy endeavor. Those who don’t like the doctrinal hymns are saying that worship should be a matter of emotion and heart. Those who don’t like simple choruses think that worship should engage the mind.

That is really where the discussion lies.

: Dave Sable January 30, 2003, 03:11:53 AM

When you try and cast a song as “worldly” or not “worldly”, you are really not talking about the song but whether or not the purpose of the song is a worthy endeavor. Those who don’t like the doctrinal hymns are saying that worship should be a matter of emotion and heart. Those who don’t like simple choruses think that worship should engage the mind.

The music we sing many of the old hymns to has many and diverse origins, from music written for the hymn, to old bar tunes, and patriotic songs. What is contemporary today will be old fasion later.

This happens with all music. I have found many good contemporary worship songs, and many that just aren't very good. With older music, the good stuff remains, and the no-so-good stuff just dies away. Many of the popular songs from even ten years ago seem to have gone, but some of the real good ones remain.

I know some people feel its sacreligious to put old hymns to contemporary music. However, this is really no different than where many of the hymns came from in the first place.

Dave Brown

I think that one can make a distinction and say, "This is music is good. This music is bad."
Think of the human voice. A person can say the same words in all manner of different tones. You or I or anyone else can infer what that person is meaning based not upon the words, but upon the way in which it is said.
Music is very similar. A person's voice, by dictionary definition, is a musical instrument. The words that he speaks, as well as the manner in which he presents it, come from his heart. Some could be good, some could be bad. It is usually easy to discern which. Would you say that heavy metal music is one of those pure, good, and noble things that we are to think upon?

I think of music like words. Some comes from a pure heart regenerated by the Holy Spirit. Some do not. A lot of the "Christian" artists today are living immoral lives, and what comes from them is sensual and meant to appeal not to our spirits but to our carnal nature They are written not for the glory of God but for money and fame.

I think that a person can hear a melody and say whether it is pleasing or not. Obviously, we can tell the difference between a vacumn cleaner and a violin. One produces noise the other produces beautiful music. What about an electric guitar? Well, it produces both. lol.. Depending on who plays it, as I'd say is the case with most instruments.

Jesus rescued us from this present evil age. That's huge! It means a lot! We've been translated from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light. It's a whole different culture. I John 2 defines what the world is. Isn't it interesting? The lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, the boastful pride of life....all these things are what comes natural to us. Jesus said that the flesh profits nothing but the spirit gives life. I'd say that worldly music, then, is that which excites and fullfills the lust of the flesh rather than that which pleases the spirit of Christ. Am I wrong? Further I'd say that worldy music is any music that "goes with the flow" of the prevailing music of the world. Hence the term "wordly music"--i.e. it sounds just like the music of the world. The redeemed sing a different song, I would dare to argue. Things are totally different for us now then they were before we got saved, which was the way of the world, as it says in Eph 2.

The worshipers that the Father seeks are those that worship him in spirit and in truth. I may be wrong, but the way I see this it, "in spirit and in truth" seems to be saying that it's not "in the flesh and in vain repetition". I see worshiping God in spirit and in truth as being a simple song that meditates on the truth of the scripture sung with all our heart in praise towards God, not a contemporary song that is modeled after the prevailing songs of the world that gets my emotions stirred up and just says the same thing over and over again - a message that isn't in the Bible, and may even be in error - a message that comes not from the spirit of God but from the darkness of man's heart.

I do not believe that all contemporary songs are bad. Like I said, I really like Kieth Green's songs, but that is because I read his biography and know that he really did have a heart that loved God. And I think you can tell in his songs. They are not crude or crass (a couple some may consider to be borderline). In each one the message is clear and well-thought out. You can actually hear each word that he is saying, and it is praiseworthy.
I think that we can say, "This music is good and I'll keep it and learn it. This music is bad and I don't want to sing it." We keep the good and discard the bad. There are a few good contemporary songs out there.
But as far as big bands during a worship time with other believers--it is not needed, it is distracting and it is an unnecessary complexity, imho :) I probably wouldn't mind an acoustic guitar, but by far I prefer the simplicty of the instrument that God gave us, not made with hands, and that is the human voice--reverberating the notes of praise from that which was also not made from human hands - the heart.

Arthur

ok-this is just about the six week challenge:
i just read this topic, and i think i understand how some of the people felt about the challenge feeling patronizing. I also think that what Brent may not have taken into account while writing the article is that to take six weeks off of assembly life which i meant to mean no meetings, no contact with assembliers(for lack of a better word) also requires seeking God's will. I believe that it is possible to see what is wrong without being so "drastic(sp?)"in action. Certainly God can reveal this to someone while they stay in fellowship, and that could be what he wants for them. I suppsose what i've really seen in this site is that the phrases "best for you" and "what you need to do" are used more than "what God wants." This whole post is kinda disorganized and incomplete, but please somebody answer so i canexplain what I'm trying to say.

Hi 'aguy', I hope you are doing well 'outthere'. :)

It may sound like a radical step to take 'six weeks off' of assembly life, but it is the experience of many former 'assembliers' that it takes a long time to get a proper perspective after many years of serious 'assembly commitment'. One becomes accustomed to hearing ministry given with subtle inferences as 'from the Lord', when all it is is manipulation. It is when the assembly context is removed that there is some space for God to reveal something more.

One can simply reply 'what God wants is for the assembliers to assemble', but it's is missing the point regarding what is needed now. The six-week challenge struck a chord with me as I personally know how long a time it took for me to begin to start thinking properly. I know that what you are hearing sounds like heresy (not to meet with other assembliers, not to have meetings several times per week), but this kind of action really isn't drastic, although it seems that way.

A few members of the WLA group are now contacting me about which church etc. I'm in, which I'm reluctant to say as I feel that what they need first is a six-week challenge of their own. Brent's article put it very well, not patronizing or commanding, but simply challenging those who are coming out of a corrupted system to have some time to see things as they truly are. It isn't a simple nor easy process, it takes time and effort, and it is well worth it. :)

brent-
yes, you did make it clear that the idea was to take six weeks off TO take God's will, but it just seemed like it was not a spiritual issue to you to decide on whether this was a good idea or not in individual circumstances. A big part of being in God's will, which I have assumed is important to you, is to be where God wants you to be. If God does still want to do something in the assemblies, he may want to do it now, when people realize that they know nothing as they ought and are totally open to what GOD wants. To simply decide to take six weeks off to see if God wants you to take more time off seems to me to be saying that you can make God's decisions for him, and that he is so unable to tell you his will wherever you are. This is how I look at it, but i also believe that if God tells you to leave, that you should immediately, but make sure you ask Him before you leave the place he has put you.

Perhaps you can help me understand how God communicates to you. I am not one who has receive many (if any) direct revelations from God. Here are some methods I have tried to discern God's will.
1. Try to interpret impresions and inner feelings I have received. (Though this has often proven to be an unreliable method as I felt deep in my Spirit one day that the Dodgers were going to win but they ended up losing).
2. Read a verse in my daily Bible reading and if it somehow relates to my circumstances, assume God has spoken (like the sister who decided to move across country because God said to Moses "Go!")
3. Ask a leading brother.
4. Walk about my known responsibilities during the day and trust that God's Providencial hand will lead me in ways that I may not even understand or realize.
5. Make a decision based upon objective criteria - Is it Scriptural? Is it practical? Is this the most effective way to do what I am trying to accomplish? Do I enjoy it? (Obviously there is a priority of thought. Scriptural takes precedence over enjoyment but if all things are equal, I would do what I enjoy). Read, think, pray, discuss, visit other churches, make comparisons so you can make an educated decision.

If you are in camp 1 and 2, you probably have a more direct pipeline to God than I do and I would like to understand more about that. 3 doesn't seem to be a great option right now. I tend to live in camp 4 and 5.

For that reason (5 especially), Brent's suggestionis a good one. Take some time to get the tools you need to look at things objectively. Do some comparison shopping, see what is out there, seek God's wisdom and make an educated, adult decision.

-Dave

P.S. By the way, Brent's challange is just that - a challenge. It is not a command. You Assembly people still respond to challenges in a way that you think if you don't respond or if you make the wrong decision, you are going to get a consequence or lose out on divine favor (or both).

FREE TO GO: FREE TO STAY: UNCENSORED IN FULLERTON

I can see the rebuttals coming. I don't view the 6 week thing as bad.
In fact if your perspective is I can't do that - that's bad.

I'm still in Fullerton. I can't and will not specifically speak about any other gatherings. BUT, if you still have they same leaders and they are doing the censure thing BEWARE BEWARE BEWARE BEWARE

I am attending some of the meetings. I am attending the meetings that are addressing past issues. I am going to Sunday Worship. I see a glimmer of hope for Fullerton. There is much that needs to happen.
But I see progress.

I have the freedom to leave: I am assured of that. If God impresses upon my heart that I must leave, I will leave. Tell then, no one is going
pressure me to go or to stay.

Why am I there?
1) To direct others to the simplicity of Christ and the importance of knowing WHO and WHAT they belive and having the audicity to express their convictions. I have had lots of opportunity to express my convictions. Ah you say - your convictions have to be those of the assembly party line. Maybe. But I am making an emphasis. To the timid - speak up. To the bold - listen - help those that are timid to express their opinions / convictions.

2) To some measure to participate in the healing process. People within and without need comfort. They need Christ. They need answers or should I say they need to know how to find answers on there own and take responsbility for them.

3) To see if what God has shown me happens as a gathering.

Forgive the generality with which I speak.
I believe God is meeting me and answering many questions.
God's answers in such simplictiy. Without going into detail, I believe
He has made in very clear to me what my relationship to Him, brothers and sisters, my wife, work, church leaders is to be and how they are to function. So simple. Obviously the controlling dynamic is to be love and humility but there are definite boundaries.

I am waiting to see if this takes place in Fullerton. There is much work.

So my 6 week thing - actually it will last longer - Has been asking God
to open my eyes "II cor 3:14-18". I believe God will honor this promise.

Should you disagree with my reasons, logic, whatever - pray the above
verse for me. Pray it for others. All He asks is that I turn my heart to
Him.

One final thought. If your only reason for staying somewhere is FEAR -
that isn't good. If it is fear of not being fed - God will feed you apart from any other person or group.

Hopeful and open in Fullerton

P.S It is a shame for those with either real or imagined power to
bully others - especially those that are weak or timid. Wordly companies do that.

P.P.S More and more I understand what is being said and why and is being said.

In His Love

AssemblyBoard

General Discussion => Any and All Topics => : Stacy Clark January 29, 2003, 06:11:02 AM