AssemblyBoard

Is the Assembly a cult?

Answer these questions if you are or were an Assembly member:
Do people need to seek counsel and get “the approval of the brethren and the unity of the saints” before they do something like change jobs, move, marry, etc.?  
Does the Assembly have something against people “acting independently of the leadership?”  
If someone does not act according to the rules of the Assembly, do people go and “report to the leadership?”  
Are people allowed to decide what God’s will is for them without interference from others?
Are people able to decide to leave without any problems and then still able to be friends with those who stay in committed fellowship?  

Many books define cults differently.  For example, M. Scott Peck in his book Further Along the Road Less Traveled defines a cult like this:

1. Idolatry of a single charismatic leader (i.e., in the Assembly’s case, more than one)
2. A revered inner circle (i.e., “workers” and those in authority)
3. Secrecy of management  (yes)
4. Financial evasiveness (for sure)
5. Dependency (yes)
6. Conformity (yes, ever try to be just a bit different and not get talked to?)
7. Special Language (yes, “divine appointments,” etc.)
8. Dogmatic doctrine (yes)
9. Heresy (debatable)
10. God in Captivity (yes, God and His ways fit into a nice, well-defined box)

Peck continues, “If you are trying to evaluate a particular organization, let me point out that to be a cult, a group does not have to satisfy all ten criteria.  If it meets three or four, I would be suspicious… There is a big difference between a community and a cult.  Community draws people in by its interconnectedness; community applies no pressure for people to stay; community glories in the extraordinary differences of its members.  Cults, on the other hand, are characterized by the brainwashing of its members, by a tremendous pressure to join or leave, and by a certain sameness of the people in them.”

It is not that the people in the Assembly are bad or evil; it is the beliefs and practices that sap people’s freedom to live and act as they believe God would have them live that are evil.  God's will has, on the most part, already been decided as far as behaviour so how can one decide what God's will is for them at this stage in their Christian growth?  There are many good people in the Assembly that follow legalistic doctrines that are labeled as "God's will."  I pray these people will find freedom to discern what God's will is for them.

The Assembly has many unscriptural practices that other cults practice.  For example, long, frequent meetings.  Another is “reporting to the leadership.”  One former member of the People’s Temple, Yolanda D. Crawford, wrote, “Jim Jones ordered us to ‘report’ on one another to prevent ‘treason.’  His technique was to have everyone report to him (or his two or three trusted leaders) all suspicious talk or behavior of others.”  According to Matthew, you have to go to your brother first and then take witnesses to talk to him if he refuses you and then bring it before the Church.  The Assembly twists Scripture to suit their own manmade doctrines like “it is God’s will you should go to all the meetings” (“Do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together”) or “you need to seek counsel” (actually, the verses from Proverbs are King Solomon telling his sons to heed the advice of his court counselors, not do whatever the leadership says).

Healthy Christian Churches don’t monitor and control a person’s life under the guise of “being accountable and walking in the light.”  Healthy Christian Churches don’t shun former friends just because they wanted to leave “the gathering of God’s people” and they certainly don’t try to stop them or discourage them from leaving by warning them that they are “settling for second best,” “leaving the covering of God,” etc. Healthy Christian Churches aren’t secretive about their financial practices or claim some sort of special status before God because the so-called “worldly Churches” supposedly do not have the same light and are ignorant of the way the truth Church (i.e., the Assembly) assembles.  Healthy Christian Churches don’t claim to have a monopoly on the truth and don’t run down other places or people.  You can only be for or against the Lord, but you are not supposed to hinder others who might do different things in Jesus’ name!  

How many times have you tried to have your own opinions and the brethren felt they had to convince you?  What happened to “Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind” (Rom. 14:5) ?

Gerry Bridges in his book Transforming Grace says that “controllers” are “people who are not willing to let you live your life before God as you believe He is leading you.  They have all the issues buttoned down and have cast-iron opinions about all of them.  These people only know black and white.  There are no gray areas to them.  They insist you live your Christian life according to their rules and opinions.  If you insist on being free to live as God wants you to live, they will try to intimidate you and manipulate you one way or another.  Their primary weapons are ‘guilt trips,’ rejection, or gossip… These people must be resisted.  We must not allow them to subvert the freedom we have in Christ.”      

EXCELLENT POST! 10 OUT OF 10!

Yep, that pretty much sums it up.  Imagine what would happen if George was able to grow his group to about 20,000 members.  That frightens me.

Brent

I never personally found it helpful to call the Assembly a cult.  Christian research groups such as CRI do not categorize the Assembly as one because their essential doctrines stay within the camp.  You can go to an Assembly meeting and have no problem getting saved, understanding the atoning work of Christ and understanding that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.   Yes, their sanctification ideas are problematic but so are churches that teach a second blessing or that you can lose your salvation – no one considers them a cult.

Certainly many of the practices borrow a page out of cults – difficult exit process, charismatic controlling leader, warfare mentality, etc.  But, where do you cross the line and call it a cult as opposed to a very unhealthy church?  Compared to some real cults and mind-control groups out there the Assembly is like a Kindergarten class.  This is a key reason why it has been so difficult to get Christian research groups to write something about the Assembly.  (Believe me, many have tried).

For example, it is pretty much a given that anyone who gets involved in the Moonies or Scientology have experienced some degree of brainwashing.  On the other hand, many who stayed out on the fringes of the Assembly never really experienced some that bad points that were reserved for those closer to the center.  I don’t think we were brainwashed.  I think we just bought into some bad presuppositions from an authority figure and lived them to their conclusion.

Finally, the question should be asked – what possible good is there in calling them a cult?  These are fighting words.  We want to help these people get on with their lives.  Not quibble over definitions.

I personally think the church is an unhealthy, dysfunctional system – mainly because George and Betty are unhealthy and dysfunctional.  Not a cult.

  I would like to bring this up for discussion.  some people in the assembly were/are "brainwashed" others seemed to keep hold of their ability to think objectivly.  So for some in may not have been a "Cult" what do you think?

Personally I don't have a problem calling it a cult.

Dave Breese, Know the Marks of Cults:

Page 13

"Christianity should not be thought of as a stone wall behind which we
cannot get. It is rather the highest mountain beyond which it is downhill
no matter which way one goes. There is is nothing greater, nothing
higher, and certainly nothing more magnificent than the mountaintop
of divine revelation in Scripture and in Jesus Christ. To move beyond
that mountaintop in pursuit of something better is to lose oneself in the
crags and crevices of the slopes that fall away from real Christianity. And
beyond the crevices of heresy are the fever swamps of the cults,
where the serpents and and the scorpions wait. Beyond rationality is
insanity, beyond medicine is poison, beyond sex is perversion, beyond
fascination is addiction, beyond love is lust, beyond reality is fantasy"

I'm sure there'll be mixed reactions to that quote. I did get free just
reading that 100 page guide - no internet, just a brother that wrote a
guide to help people, the Lord my Shepherd and of course little old me.  :)

While in fellowship-15 years I literally saw some individuals lose their minds!  For example One individual who came in as a visitor and after about a year began to exhibit strange behaviors during the meetings he began to constantl chant out loud  "PRAISE THE LORD_AMEN HALLELUIA! THANK YOU GODTHANK YOU JESUS  THANK YOU HOLY SPIRIT"  The last I saw of this guy was him pushing a shopping cart with all his possesions as he was homeless and unable to get a hold on reality, Another guy acctually started behaving like he was george Geftakys, he started jestering and leading the meetings He would walk into the hall and announce in a loud vouce O.K. saints LETS PRAY!!!!!   Later the brothers had to restrain him they took him to a Mental Hospital,  Another you beautiful girl who was just a visitor slowly slipped over the side one night she showed up to the meeting and she had cut all of her hair off with a pair of cheep scissors. Do any of you feel this was the dfault of the dybamics of the assembly?

just a note on "being heretical".

gg and the message on adam being
created on the seventh day.

Long long ago in a Galaxy far far away......


Seriously,

George Geftakys once called in a couple of cult experts, John and Gretchen Passantino, because he wanted to brand the Local Church a cult.  This was because both groups were competing for the top of the "true church in Fullerton" mountain.  

Tim Geftakys was the representative of the assembly that they talked to.  He gave them a bunch of local church literature as evidence.

I have had two conversations with John over the years since I left the assembly.  He told me that after talking to Tim a while, he became interested in the assembly as a possible cult.  So, while Tim did what he could to brand the local church a cult, he was actually providing evidence to the Passantinos about the assembly.

Here is their take.  They make the division between cult and not a cult on the basis of the gospel preached.  They ask, "If a person came in from the street, could he find salvation in the gospel he hears in this group?"

I don't think many would question that the assembly passes this test.

My take on the is/is not question is this. The George Geftakys assemblies are/were (it depends) a Christian group that is pretty sound in its basic beliefs, but is definitely cultic psychologically, (how they think), and sociologically, (how they relate among themselves and to outsiders).

In other words, it is a Christian church that has become terribly and dangerously dysfunctional.

God bless,
Thomas Maddux

The assembly is basic, true.

But as far as training homes, MTT finance,
campus work - okay, okay, abuse espousal.

How much more does a group have to get
"off track" before it becomes a cult. Cults
are dangerous - would you like even one
of your offspring to fall victim to anyone ?

Sorry, just on my soapbox.  >:(

Okay,

No I am not sorry for being on my soapbox.  >:(

Put your child, willingly into an abusive situation.
I hope you would never, and i mean never do that.
You don't know a man unless you've walked in his shoes.

George was visiting our home in Santa Barbara and the subject of cults and deprogramming came up during dinner.  George posed the question, "Should deprogramming be legal?  After all, people join groups of their own free will."  

Having just graduated from UCSB and written a paper on the issue, I said, "Yes, of course, if it is truly a cult, a person's family should be able to do what it takes to rescue their loved one from a dangerous and abusive situation."  (I was thinking of the Moonies and Jim Jones back then...I had read testimonies in a book about former cult members being so grateful to have their lives and sanity back...)

George quickly replied, "You are dead wrong, Susan.  If deprogramming is a legal activity and people find out about it, they can come after the assembly and deprogram us."  

Wow.  

true story ?

i don't know how many years it took you to leave after
that - many glaring beacons saying "rocks ahead!" in my
assembly life. Wow is right - gg was probing and doing
damage control.

I have to modify this post - If George Geftakys said that
he was concerned about "his people" being
de-programmed- meaning implied of course for all of you
legal eager beavers. - he obviously knew that "his"
ministry was a charade(SP). He was totally doing  damage
control.

Two things, no three:
1. I wholeheartedly agree with Dave Sable and Tom Maddux on this point.  The gospel was clearly preached and the Word was honored and held in othodoxy in every assembly I know of.  It did however operate in an abusive structure.  Cult? No.  Cult-like practices? Definitely.

2. I agree in part with John J. Malone, Sr.'s comment about the Catholic Church.  Tho' parts of it could definitely be said to be a cult (Knights of Columbus, Jesuits, etc.), it also falls more in the realm of generally engaging in cult-like practices.  It's interesting, a few years ago I heard Tim Geftakys make almost an identical statement as John's, regarding the Roman Catholic Church.

3. For the second time: Voice! Why don't you identify yourself?  At least PM me (I promise not to tell).  It's rather disconcerting to have people making strong statements either pro or con, anonymously.

The message that started this thread is VERY WELL THOUGHT out and TOTALLY TRUE!!!  We were not a cult so much doctrinally, but rather a cult in PRACTICE ... i.e. socially - organizationally - structurally.  One of the main Characteristics of spiritually abusive systems is the Overemphasis on Authority.  In this ministry you COULD NOT think differently.

When you scrutinize the doctrines that were taught, most of them were fairly right-on.  People could get saved in our midst, and trully know Jesus Christ.  But they never came to truly know LIBERTY in Christ. I think George Knew he couldn't keep the SYSTEM together long unless he stayed fairly orthodox.  That's one of the things that kept the SYSTEM going so long.  There were so many RIGHT things (doctrinally, not practically) and SINCERE people, that any hazy areas we just passed by and overlooked.  For example the "elders in every church", and "elders in every city."  We did not PRACTICE this.  We had a handful of elders for the ministry throughout the US, each with wide reaching authority to make decisions for local gatherings.  That was the practice.  BUT we TAUGHT each testimony is responsible to Christ alone for its decisions.   Did anyone question it?

We taught no clergy and laiety, but we ended up practicing it.  The "leading brothers", (an unscriptural term) ended up controlling peoples life decisions as was so well pointed out below.

Anyone ever question the lack of older believers in general in our gatherings?  Its because older people have enough EXPERIENCE in life that they can see through the CONTROL SYSTEM from miles away.  Ever wonder why our main effort for outreach, and the main way people came in in this "ministry" was College Campuses?  Because those people were very sincere, but the easiest to misguide and mislead.  They didn't have enought experience to see through the SYSTEM.  They came in seeing other enthusiastic people, hearing TRUE things taught about salvation and Jesus Christ - and ended up controlled.

"Concern" points out below that people were NOT in general able to "leave fellowship" without problems.  That term is not even scriptural.  Leaving the Assembly is not leaving fellowship.  We have fellowship with all our brethren in Christ.   And while we TAUGHT that the Body of Christ included other believers than the Assembly, in PRACTICE we acted like we were the only Body of Christ.  There were many things that were not out-right preached, but they were IMPLIED in our behavior and practices.

The whole idea of making a "committement to fellowship" essentially meant signing your life away to the ORGANIZATION.  Sorry, as believers WE ARE COMMITTED TO FELLOWSHIP, fellowship with Christ and those that love Him.

Also concerned.  GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just have a question for people who say that the assembly
is a cult. When you say assembly are you referring to fullerton or every assembly?

Cult would refer to the geftakys system.
That of course would mean "all" assemblies.
There has been speculation that not all
assemblies are the same. But in light of
the west coast and now the midwest, it's
business as usual - they are all still in the
system, nothing has substantially changed.

Was not my intent to minimize the cultishness and abusiveness of the Geftakys System but it is not "A Cult" in the strictest sense (Moon, Mormons, JW's, etc.) Abusive? Harmful? Yes, w/o a doubt.  But doctrinally it has been more in the mainstream than out (and don't tire me again with that 7th day creation thing, heard it, agree, but not really that big of a deal in the whole scheme of things). Sure, there are some errors in teaching but every Christian group is accused of that.

What would you call the RCC?  Abusive? Secretive? Oppressive? Murderous? Adulterous?  Yes on all counts.

BTW Rudy,
How and where did you come to faith in Christ?  I would be very surprised if it was through the Catholic Church.  If it was, I apologize.

I am in agreement with Tim and others.  Will not say it is a cult, but does have "cult like practices"

Lord Bless,
G

I am an ak and have been my whole life. I'm 15 and you can say i'm brainwashed deceived whatever but you don't know me. You've never met me yet you call me corrupt, pompous and deceived. You have to know me before you put me under the same umbrella as GG. I  got on my knees before the Lord and I know that this is where He wants me. so before you say every assembly is a cult go see for yourself

Dear guest,
Let's put this into perspective.  This is a discussion on opinion of whether people should label the assemblies as a cult.  But most of this site is devoted to the error that has been propogated as a whole, and also errors propogated at particular locations.  Pray as you read what is on this site, you will find that there is truth here.  Yes, you will find occassional slant, but that happens in any conversation.

Andrea

Dear guest,
No one is calling you "corrupt, pompous, and deceived". They are just pointing out cult-like practices in the assembly.  You are very young. Many of the people posting were involved longer than you have even been alive.  Before you jump to conclusions read and consider what is being said very carefully. I am fairly certain that many of the posters on this BB have seen for themselves and are hoping that you will "see" things very clearly. I hope you continue to walk very closely to the Lord. I know one thing for sure He is the Great Shepherd.
Pat

It is amazing to me that there are still people saying "that 7th day thing" is not a big deal.  Not only does it require complete manipulation of the scriptures to get there, it violates fundamental historical christian teaching, and it totally destroys the teaching of new testament sabbath rest.  It's not important that we as New Testament believers can rest from our works as He did from His?  As long as GG was not teaching that Jesus and Satan were brothers, it's ok then?

And of course the conditional inheritance thing has been mentioned time and time again on here, but that is once again foundational christian teaching, and in my opinion corrupts the work of Christ on the cross - thus making it heresy, and thus making it a cult.  No the GG assembly was never drinking purple koolaid or trying to hop onto  the Hale Bob comet, but their practices and heretical teachings do qualify it as such - in my opinion.  

Another point to consider:  If GG's definition of salvation means you can be saved but end up not being part of the Bride of Christ, not being with Christ for eternity, in fact, end up not being in heaven but in the lake of fire--is this the same gospel preached by the apostles?

People want me to identify myself and I have:  I am a voice of concern who still loves the saints.  I am male so that, according to the Assembly’s interpretation of the Bible, gives me the right to share a word.  (Forgive the joke in this serious matter!)  I am sharing what I have learned from my own experiences.  I have done a lot of research, years of soul searching and much praying.  I should clarify what I meant by the word cult.  

In the past, Christians tended to define cults like JWs and Mormons by what they believed, i.e., a cult is a heretical sect of Christianity.  But this is dangerous way to define a cult because a group might preach the gospel but the group dynamics could have a negative affect on the lives of the members, e.g., if the members are treated like children by those in leadership positions.  (I am talking about control that stunts the growth of people as individuals before God, metaphorically much like a mother who smothers her child and never allows it to let go of the apron strings.) The Assembly’s belief system dictates a very clear code of conduct that does not allow for people to decide God’s will for themselves or act as they think God would want them to.  This is wrong and very dangerous because it stunts one’s growth as a Christian.  People in cults are robbed of their ability to think for themselves and sometimes need to be deprogrammed or take time away from the cult before they can see the true affect the cult had on their life.

Most modern definitions of “cult” are not primarily concerned with what a group believes, but defines what the group is (power structure, etc.) and its sway over the members.  For example, Marc Galanter’s book, Cults:  Faith, Healing and Coercion,  avoids the word cult because it conjures up mental images like Jim Jones’ the People’s Temple or David Koresh’s Branch Davidians. Thus, he uses the term “Charismatic group” in lieu of cult which he defines as “a close-knit community defined by the following characteristics:  It has a strongly held belief system and a high level of social cohesiveness; its members are deeply influenced by the group’s behavioral norms and impute a transcendent (or divine) role to their leader.”  (This defines the Assembly perfectly!)  Thus, what makes a group a cult is not what they believe, but how they practice what they believe and how the group dynamics affects the members.  To me, a cult is any group that exercises excessive control, authority or influence over the lives of its members to such a degree that they are dependant on that group and cannot think or act for themselves because the group will attempt to influence them unduly through various physiological tools like guilt trips, monitoring schedules and finances (“being accountable”), discouraging independence, and (what a cult-like concept!) find the mind of the Lord together to show the unity of the saints, etc.  

Now is it just Fullerton and the California Assemblies that are a cult?  George had workers who submitted to him because under the agreement of being a worker they had to be loyal and dedicated to his ministry that clearly defined the truth and the will of God.  Over time, different rules or standards were instituted by various people and communicated to the workers in the worker’s meetings.  The various workers were in authority in all the Assemblies (placed there ultimately by George and others) and would then share George’s and others’ interpretation of God’s will and truth to others and expect them to follow it “for the sake of the testimony.”  People in the local Assembly are encouraged to submit (not “act independently”), obey the leadership (that passage in Hebrews means “be persuaded by” in Greek, meaning there is choice there to accept what they say), seek counsel, find the mind of the Lord together, etc SO the regular laity of the Assembly submitted to the will of George through his workers who were in positions of leadership in the local Assembly.  If there were ever any disagreements with conforming to the supposed will of God, workers would call other workers or even George who would make a pronouncement that was supposed to be accepted.  Therefore, there is no autonomy of the local Assembly and certainly no autonomy of the individual to decide the will of God for themselves because the will of God has already been clearly defined.   So, with this direct link from George (and other revered leaders) to all the local Assemblies, the beliefs and coercive practices that his ministry has instilled in its many members are present in every Assembly.  Going to one Assembly is like going to McDonalds:  you know what to accept because they serve the same beliefs and practices with a side order of spiritual pride of being THE place that God has chosen to have the most light.  

Cults, by the way, always claim that THEY are the only one or the best of the best... just like the Assembly teaches.

I talked on the phone a few years ago to a brother who had been kidnapped and deprogrammed out of the assembly, but I can't remember his name.
I think the deprogramming process essentially does what GG's exposure has done to the assembly faithful.  It jerks the lid off the garbage can.
The deprogrammers hammer away at issues like the leader's credentials and character until the subject cannot deny it.
The problem is, it IS illegal.  They try to avoid legal issues by having close relatives directly involved.  Who wants to see mom behind bars?
But there have been some cases where Moonies or such have prosecuted family.
Tom M.

The person you are referring to is Brian Steele of Santa Barbara.  His mother is friends with my mother in the Bay Area.  Since his "deprogramming", Brian is married with a family, walking joyfully with the Lord in a healthy church, and lives in Washington State.  

The deprogramming does not take away the Holy Spirit, for the Lord promises that no one can snatch us out of His hand.  What the process did was bring Brian to the place where he could get back to his simple faith in the love and grace of Christ, and the sufficiency of the cross.

Hi Susan!
  Yes indeed, I heard from Brian about his deprogramming and have a letter from him that describes his experience.
   The Assembly practiced something called, "millieu control" where you only recieve the info. they want you to hear and label anything negative about the group as, "of the Devil, etc.".  This is a cultic characteristic and Brian was taken out of the control and was provided with an alternate view of the Assembly.
   This kind of control is not possible in the Assm. now, in the same way as it was practiced pre GG excomm. days.  However, if the axe is not taken to the Assm. root system another toxic cult like organization could take it's place.
   If one has trouble with using the word "cult" for fear it is lumping Christian's in with JW's then use the term Paul used for the Galatians and call such teaching and practice cursed.  ;)            God Bless,  Mark

wow, in my short time in one of the so-called "assembly" fellowships, i've never felt forced in any way by the leadership with regards to "rules" and the like...well, except that all have a duty to do what "overseers" do (i.e. no clergy-laity).
i find some practices i read in these msgs kinda surprising. my take...the place i go to ain't a cult. and since i've never been to the others, i wouldn't know.
something i've noticed though--visitors from other assemblies find us in our "natural" settings (out of the meetings) odd, as if we didn't know some code or something. hmmm...

Well, this is timely!  I just found this site tonight and made a (long) post about my deprogramming (see "Deprogrammed -Brian Steele's Santa Barbara Exit").  By the way, Mark it is great to hear from you and many thanks for the discussions you had with me.  Much appreciated.  Greetings also Tom Maddux, David Maudline, Dean Halverson, Patrick and Shelly Evert, Jason Cox.  My appologies for not keeping in touch but I'd be glad to catch up.

After leaving the Assembly via an involuntary intervention (i.e. deprogramming) I went to Wellspring Retreat and Resource Center in Ohio.  Wellspring is a rehab center for cult victims.  During my time there I met 5 other cults victims from different groups including Bible-based groups and New Age Groups.  Though we came from different organizations the similarities in our experiences were striking.  Meeting many cult victims subsequently, I am still amazed, to this day, that I have common ground with people from political, business, new age, Bible-based, eastern, and sci-fi cults.  Though different cults hold different doctrine, the methods of manipulation and control are they same across all boundaries.  

Robert J. Lifton studied thought reform in Communist China.  He identified 8 criteria of control that they used in their "re-education camps".  When Lifton examined cults in the United States he found identical practices of control and manipulation.  These criteria are summarized below.  At one point (years ago) I made a detailed analysis of how the Assembly meets all of these criteria.  I'm in the process of putting this document together and would be glad to send a copy on request (it's about 10 pages long, too big to post here!).

1) Milieu Control:  Control of human communication and information. "To be engineers of the human soul, the leaders must bring it under full observational control, monitoring information and thoughts."

2) Mystical Manipulation: Specific patterns of behavoir that, though provoked from the leaders, seem to have arisen spontaneously.  A heavenly/spiritual reason is given to normal experience.

3) Demand for Purity: The world is divided into absolute pure and impure based on what is inside/outside of the group.  Results in constant shame, guilt, rebuking, exhortation.  Impossibly high standards are required to be met.

4)  Cult of Confession: Because one is constantly failiing, one must constantly confess.  Confession is exploited by leaders.  Confession becomes a public performance (arrogance through self-abasement).    A battle between self-worth and humilty.

5) Sacred Science: Doctrince and beliefs of the group cannot be questioned and are absolutely correct.  Results in a feeling of elitism and uniqueness.   Questioning ldoctrine eads to shunning, excommunication.

6) Loaded Language: Thought-terminating cliche, the language of non-thought.  Shop talk taken to a far extreme, separating the group members from non-members.  Language is limited to group talk, becomes automatic (can I hear a "Praisethelord?") the thought process atrophies from disuse.  Reinforces Milieu Control because one looses the ability to speak clearly with outsiders.

7)  Doctrine Over Person:  human experience is subordinated to the claims of the Sacred Science (doctrine).   Myths of the doctrine replaces actual experience.  Character, personality, identity are reshaped, replaced with the group ideal.  Members forced into a group mold, conformity is a must.

8)  Dispensing of Existence:  Anybody outside of the group is a non-person, backslider, fallen away, worldly.  To leave the group is to leave God.  Creates an atmosphere of fear.  Involves shunning, excommunication (do I hear, "Loss of inheritance"?).

Most cult experts agree that the above criteria can be present in different degrees for different groups.  However, in tandem, they act to manipulate and control group members.

Ask yourself honestly if the Assemblies meet these criteria.  Again, I will provide a more detailed description of the criteria as well as specifics, in my experience, of how the Assemblies meet the criteria.

See also "Thought Reform and Psychology of Totalism" by Robert J. Lifton.  Chapter 22 describes the 8 criteria in more detail as well.

A few other things also, after reading more of this thread.  Indeed, I'm alive and well in Washington, married, child, loving life! I love the Lord and have been active in a church for the 10 years since being here.  Hey and Howdy also to Susan McCarthy.  I hope all is well with you.

Now to the topic.  There are theological definitions and sociological definitions of cults.  Lifton's criteria define social means of manipulation and control.  In this regard, a group may have othordox doctrine but cultic practices.  

Other people hold a theological definition of cults: those groups that differ significantly from orthodox Christianity are "cults".  

In my estimation, much (not all) of the doctrine I learned from the Assembly was orthodox.  However, the practices (at the time of my involvement) were distintly cultic and meet the criteria for a manipulative, totalitarian, unhealthy system.  

It could be said that, doctrinally, the Assemblies are more sound that Mormons and, accordingly, less theologically cultic.  However, many (not all!) Mormon Stakes and Wards are less socially cultic than the Assemblies with less manipulation and control over members.  

God Bless.

I don't see how the doctrine of an organization could be sound when the freedom that should have been taught as a major aspect of that doctrine was completely lacking!

Dear Friends:

I would like to ask all of you to take 10 steps back from this whole thing, in your mind's eye.  Remove yourself from it, and pretend that a broken confused Christian, who is experiencing all of the events at the Assembly, but at another church, has come to you for counsel.  You can see that this person is sincere, but also confused and hurt.  As a strong, mature believer, who has advanced insight into the truth of God's word, you want this person to break free from any sort of bondage, and have joy and liberty in Christ.

This broken, confused brother has told you:

• The leader of his group is an adulterer and an immoral man
• All of the money is kept secret and is handled only by the immoral leader
• The leader's son is a wife beater and has his own, very dysfunctional life
• The leadership was all handpicked by the immoral, money loving leader
• Hundreds of former members of the group have identical stories about abuse and control
• 2 best-selling books and numerous articles by a Christian author called the group "Abusive"
• Every other Evangelical church in town counsels people to stay away from the group
• A national cult expert, and several leading Christian Cult awareness groups have called the group a cult, and former members have actually been de-programmed.
• There is a website about this dear confused brother's group, that has thousands of pages of testimonies that all point to the fact that something is seriously wrong

How would you counsel this person?

If this person turned out to be you, would you take your own counsel?

Take Six Weeks Off!

Brent

Hi Everyone!
  Now we are really thinking and posting clearly!  Thanks Brian, Brent, and Others for your contribution.
    The standards for orthodox Christian teaching is very limited, if we use people like CRI to define it for us.  All one needs to not be considered a cult theologically, by CRI, is a correct understanding of who God is and a belief in the atonement of Christ.  The Bible does not separate teaching from practice, as some cult watching groups do.  Loving practice must be included with orthodox theology or you have false Christianity.  Paul said knowledge, without love, was like a clanging cymbal and also that it can destroy a brother's faith.
   Assembly merit salvation teaching would be considered aberrant by CRI, not cultic, but the way the Assembly combined their false holiness message with their other group oriented control practices' it combined for quite the toxic message!
   I would even go so far as to say that if you have a perfectly orthdox view of who God is and then distort that image in practice you change our loving God of calvary into a heretical image.
   A bro. from the Assm. recently told me that in the Assm. he learned a view of God as one who was always seeking to condemn him.  The distorted teaching, combined with the group practices, led him into abandoning his faith (who wants to believe in a God like that?).  I think he will get his faith back as he understands the grace of God in truth and what it reveals of the wonderful love of God for us!
                                        God Bless,  Mark

How about taking a six day break from the bulletin board?  Heh.  Sometimes I think it's not so good to spend so much time thinking about these things.  I took a six hour break once, and my mind began to wander off of the assembly and such ilk.  
Whoa...real life... :o  I started having flashbacks of what it was like before ever being in the assembly.  I started to remember what it was like to think normal thoughts, and that life can actually be fun and not constrained by assembly thoughts... I got a chance to take the funky goggles off.  I'm liking it.  I'm thinking that this bb is necessary to help deal with things so that we can finally put it all behind us--and that's the goal isn't it?  And I've met with some people in person that I haven't talked to in almost two years.  We're at peace now.  Still have more people to talk to.  Face to face is better than virtual any day of the week, trust me.  I hope to one day say adios, and move on to that big blue room just outside my door and get a tan or something instead of this computer-monitor pale that I have now.

Arthur

My feelings pretty much to a tee.
However, conspiracy theory, the assy
is present. fact. they are either seeking
help or seeking to hinder. plausible fact.
therefore brethren, what shall we do.
i have stated before and still acknowledge
that i do not have my leave from this business.
Hey, that's me. i know how to make up
my own mind and hopefully, dear "plain"
readers, you can also.

It is easy to not see the underlining teaching that defines the assembly as a cult as a new member.  The first 1-3 years (depending on how difficult it is to get the new member "committed") the older members do not inform the new member as to the "cult-like" tendancies of the assembly.  But be assured, your assembly "leading brothers" and "workers" were hand picked and hand trained by George himself (or his disciples.)  The teaching is all the same in every assembly.  Don't be fooled.  If you are in any assembly - you are in a cult.  There are no two ways about it!  Don't be deceived.  There are a lot of reputable churches out there that are not secretive about their finances, their teachings and are do not practice authoritative control amongst the "committed" sheep.  Save yourself years of grief.  Get out of there AND FAST!

Calling it a cult is a non-issue for me.

It was certainly unhealthy and that was enough!