AssemblyBoard

     Hello...  My name is al Hartman, and i'm a recovering Geftakysite.  i was in fellowship with George and Betty Geftakys from 1969 until 1980.  During most of that time i served among the workers and the leading brothers of the Fullerton assembly.

     Presently, i live in a suburb of Columbus, Ohio.  i have a wife, four children, four grandchildren, two dogs, a house, two cars, and no concubines.

    In 1980, i left the assembly because i was no longer able to maintain the pace required of a leader, and was so ashamed, and certain that i had failed the Lord, that i didn't want to be among the saints, to be reminded of my shortcomings.  Only recently did i find out that if i hadn't left when i did, i would have shortly been asked to leave.

     After leaving the assembly, i returned to my native Ohio with my wife Cathy, and our children, Hannah, Joshua, Esther and Phoebe.  We have had over 20 years to examine and overcome our assembly experiences.  We are still engaged in that process.  It took several years for me to realize that i had not just left the assembly, i had ESCAPED it.  Some years after that, i understood that i had SURVIVED my bondage, and finally i have come to see that
every day i stand before God and walk with him, i am OVERCOMING my past.

     i had wanted with all my heart to serve the Lord, and had thought that i was doing so.  i believe we all thought we were doing his will.  The assembly was not at that time what it became in later years, but the seeds were sown and the garden tended during the years of my tenure, and i ask your forgiveness for what part i had in the establishing of that darkness.

     How grateful i am that, while man looks at the outward appearance, God sees what is in ours hearts; how grateful for the forgiveness of sins, for our Advocate with the Father, for the Spirit of Truth to lead us into all Truth, that we may walk in the Light and have fellowship with one another.


     It has taken distance and time for me to realize that my time in the assembly was not lost.  (It seemed like a loss when i left, but i now regard it as an investment.  It has even gathered interest.)  Now i am convinced that God leads us down whatever paths we must travel to get us to the place he wants us to be.  Something about each one of us must have needed the assembly experience, else why would he have allowed us to travel that road when we sought to follow him?  There may have been something we could only learn the hard way?  i don't pretend to understand his reasons, but i know whom i have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which i have committed unto him against that day.

     i came away from the assembly with much good:  
i learned how to study the bible there, and the lesson has served me in every aspect of my life.  In every situation that requires conscious thought, i ask myself and God, (1.) What is happening here?  (2.) What does it mean to me, in a practical way?  (3.) What would You have me [What am i going to] do about it?
     i also learned how to really listen effectively to ministry, and i learned how to preach and to teach.  And i learned self discipline.  Much i learned was in spite of, rather than because of, the assembly.  Nonetheless, that is where i was when i learned it, or when the seeds were planted that would bear fruit later on.
     It took time after i had left for me to "learn" what i had learned-- to winnow out the good grain from the chaff.

     By the way, i don't despise George or Betty.  Rather, i weep for them.  They were born into this world the same way as you and i.  At some point, they set out to follow Jesus and serve God.  Somehow they were deceived, then blinded, and are perhaps now even mad.  But my pain is abating and my anger has cooled, and i cannot hate them.  
i pray God will humble them, and that they will humble themselves before him, and repent and find his forgiveness, and ask for yours.   But for the grace of God, what became of them could have happened to any of us.  Their salvation, as ours, is only in seeking, finding and clinging to the living God, and leaving the past behind us and the settling of accounts to him.    

     Any "old-timers" out there who remember us, we'd love to hear from you:    OHio al Hartman@aol.com    ("Newbies" are welcome too!)

     Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world... Be of good cheer, for he has overcome the world.

In his love,
brother al

I love you, brother. I'm happy to say that and put into cyberspace for all the World to see because it is for brothers like you and the words you have spoken that I don't "throw out the baby with the bath water", that I rejoice in my salvation, that there are people with whom I can still have rich fellowship and yes, FRIENDSHIP without fear of reprisal with total liberty and conviction that it is the way the Lord intended it.

Thank God

Tony Garisek - 1972 - 1992

Al, excellent wisdom...super rich stuff.  

Our experience bears-out what was really there in the first place - What God intended from eternity. In your case, indeed, it was Jesus Christ.

His Goodness to you...Chuck

Re. Al Hartman :)
  I agree; Al has a wonderful wisdom to share and he has a skill at sharing it as well!
  Al left at a time when it was not easy to leave.  There was not a website, Enroth books, or former members to help.  As he shared he thought he left because he was a failure!  Some have left and still think they are.
   Al's story is a testimony to the God who finds the lost and hurting sheep and is able to bring Him back.
  Some who come to this website are struggling with their faith, and there are those who are very critical of them.  Al, through time, discovered that God is not the perfectionist God of the Assembly, but a loving, kind, and gentle Shepherd who puts his arm around us and lifts us on his shoulder.
   Knowing this has made Al wise, loving, and given Him a genuine care for others' (I have communicated with Him for the last couple of years and have come to know him).
   Al's story should give hope to those of you who are experiencing a crisis of faith re. recent Assembly events.  It's okay to step back and let God step into your confusion and help you sort out your relationship with Him. God will never leave or forsake you and you don't have to understand everything for this to be true!
                             God will Bless!   Mark C.

Al----

Thanks for your wonderful words of encouragement. You have a beautiful way of looking at things. Whether God led us to the Assembly or simply "allowed" us to enter it--he did use the experience to teach all of us his Lovingkindness.
I've seen that in so many that have been through the Assembly system and now state their feelings---so many mention God's Lovingkindness towards them. One of my favorite verses in the Bible is Jer. 9:23 "Let him that glorieth, glory in this, that he understands and knows me that I am the Lord which exercise Lovingkindness, righteousness and judgement in the earth, for in these things I DELIGHT, saith the Lord". I mentioned one other time that I am so grateful God puts Lovingkindness first in his list of things he delights in or I'd be in big trouble! Al--it's so good to here you share--and tell Cathy that I remember very well the times she tried to comfort and console me when I was so "bummed out"(not that you didn't try also)--she would just take so much extra time and really use Scriptures of comfort--I remember it well though it's been over 23 years ago(I left in 1980 also). may God bless you Al.         --Joe

     Thanks for responding to this topic.  Wish there were more saints interested...
     
     Joe, special thanks for sharing Jeremiah 9:23-- what an encouragement!  If more of the assemblies' "walking wounded" could grasp the reality of the Lord's lovingkindness and patience on our behalf, there would be a lot more rejoicing on this website, and a lot less bitterness.

For the love of God,
al Hartman

I think that time is what heals all wounds.  If you haven't been able to be ministered to by the body of Christ, this "time" takes even longer.  I feel grateful that I have had numerous, godly men and women who have ministered to me the healing grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.  And due to this, I have been able to move through the various emotions (anger being one them-btw-anger is not a sin, it is only what you do with it and noone can judge your motives.)

We need to give people the time and grace to get there.  Be a helper in this respect and reach out to those who are hurting!

Amen Al

Yes, I agree with you totally, Mr. Hartman.  Thank you for your wisdom and loving encouragement.  

I see that well, one person, learned many good things in the assembly.  I think we all have.  We just tend to overlook them and seem to center on all the bad things that happened to us.  NOT TO DISRESPECT WHAT HAPPENED TO ANYONE AT ANYTIME IN THIS WORK!

Sorry, just have to put the disclaimer.  

Well, I was also very angry at George for a while.  How could he do this?  HOW COULD HE?  But God has given me grace and peace and I am really praying for him.  That God would bring him to the end of himself.

God Bless you, Mr. Hartman.

A Brother in Christ,

Luke Robinson

Free t-shirt to the 15th poster!!!

BrentTr0ckmanFan

Am I # 15?
  Hi Everyone!
 I don't think the question here is so much, "what was good about our Assembly experience", but how can we help those still holding on to the old system see what needs to be let go?
   We don't want to see the patient die on the operating table as a "easy come, easy go" attitude at this crucial period could be fatal for some Assembly adherents.
   There is a desperate need for some to see that they are still embracing a very posionous system!
   What is good about the Assembly is God's people and not trying to help them at this time with the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, would not be good for them.
    Once those still clinging to a twisted version of Christianity are freed then we can console them with the wonders of God's restoring love and grace.  
    We can not serve 2 masters:  Either our love of position and power in a group, or the Lordship of Christ will win the day.  Only when those who "meant it for evil" see their culpability in the system repent of same, will they hear the message, "but, God meant it for good."
                               God Bless,  Mark

     It is important to differentiate between the young saints and those of long standing.  Trying to get leaders and former leaders to see the errors of the assemblies-- to see and admit the errors of their personal participation-- and to help them find deliverance from whatever bondage holds them is part of our responsibility as faithful shepherds.

     But be careful!  Those who are young in the faith, some of whom have known no other home than an assembly, don't need to be led AWAY from anything, but to be pointed TOWARD Christ.  They aren't learned enough to evaluate the subtleties of who has a better handle on how we should gather or who we should listen to.  
     To these little ones, preach Christ.  They need to know that He in whom they have believed can be trusted to continue His good work in them, to lead them into all truth, and to deliver them from deception and evil.  (Look up the postings of "Hopeful" for an example!)

     Be faithful.  Preach the Word.  Be instant in season and out of season.  (Don't get stuck in a mind-set that prevents your correctly reading the situation).  Be angry and sin not.

                      Rejoice-- it is your birthright!

For the love of God,
brother al

I forgot.  I forgot all about this.  It was long ago.

When I wandered out of the Assembly system, I wandered into the desert.  I tried different churches -- I tried, I tried...

And God said, "I UNDERSTAND."

He sent me my wonderful husband to teach me that God still loved me.  Sometimes my husband would say something, and I would look at him, and I would hear God's voice in the thing he had said to me.

I felt rotten.  I kept failing to walk with God because I was so lost.

And God still said, "I UNDERSTAND."

God was so patient with me.  He gave me time.  He never gave up on me, even when I gave up on myself.

I am now safely married, in a church I personally believe the truth of because I checked it out for myself (Roman Catholicism) and have a relationship with God today.

God understood.

Hi Amy:
Thanks for sharing your story. I trust you will continue to allow God to reveal His truth to you thorugh His Word in the Holy Scriptures. Most poople posting on this BB wil not agree with you that Roman Catholicism teaches the truth...
Verne

Greetings Amy:
 Most maybe, but not everyone  :)....

Uh Oh...! do it detect faint stirrings of potentially lively debate on the merits of Roman Catholicism? Why Sebastian, I never would have guessed!  :)
Verne

Thanks.  I researched some pages for Mithrandir to post his warnings on and was pleased to see that several listed Roman Catholicism as a cult.  :-*

A greater than Santayana had a few things to say about specks and logs, too. Eh emcee?  :-*

Sebastian obviously has a problem. I do remember his rather suggestive but undeveloped response to that post. Would Sebastian please speak up instead of making veiled references? This is a forum for meaningful and spirited exchange!
Would you like to launch into a defence of Roman Catholicism my friend? The floor is yours... :)
Verne
p.s.
Unlike your own expressed displeasure, I have agreed with and enjoyed reading most of what you have posted... :)

Hey thanks, Verne.  I appreciate the offer! :)

However, I'm not here to debate the merits of Roman Catholicism.  It's not that I can't.  I actually know enough about it to explain to someone why I believe the way I do.  It's that I'm here to help myself, not debate anything with anyone.  (Also, some of the things about Catholicism require lengthy explanations! ;D)

So, 'nuff said.  

Thanks for asking!

Hi Amy!
That post was meant for Sebastain but since you received it so graciously, I acccept your offer to talk about other things... ;)
Verne

Thanks!  I really appreciate you saying that!  So, anybody up for talking about Tiger Woods?  :) :) :)

Tiger Woods is a fantastic golfer,
But I'm posting because I just read Nancy Newswander's term paper on The Jesus Movement under 'What's new' on the assembly reflections web site.
It is excellent, must reading.  We who have escaped need to know our history in order to avoid repeating it.
Good job, Nancy.

Becky

The New Living Translation

1 Corinthians 1: 1 - 31
1  ..chosen by the will of God…
2  …called by God. He made you holy by means of Christ Jesus,
4  …belong to Christ Jesus.
5 He has enriched your church …about Christ …
8 He will keep you strong …
9 God will surely do this for you, …
12 … "I am a follower of Paul." Others are saying, "I follow Apollos," or "I follow Peter," or "I follow only Christ."
18 … power of God.
20 …God has made them all look ….
21 .. God in his wisdom …
24 … called by God …power of God … wisdom of God.
25 … plan of God ….
26 … God called you.
27 …God deliberately chose things the world considers foolish ….
28 God chose things despised by the world, …
29 so that no one can ever boast in the presence of God.
30 God alone made it possible for you to be in Christ Jesus. … God made Christ to be wisdom itself. He is the one who made us acceptable to God. He made us pure and holy, and he gave himself to purchase our freedom.
31 As the Scriptures say, should boast only of what the Lord has done.

Read this passage from 1 Corinthians 1 and see how many references to God did this and how our focus is the Lord. It ends by saying we can only boast in the Lord. The problems of disunity were caused by people following their earthly leaders instead of Christ. Again this passage is lifted out of context to support the view that these are people complaining about the system. There they go again grumbling in their tents just like Miriam in Moses’ day. It is amazing how often the leaders would misuse scripture to support their own agenda. But read on because every member is responsible to the extent that they complied with the system and perpetrated it by not investigating the scriptures for themselves.

In the assembly we boasted in (past tense):
1.   our vision,
2.   our devotion to prayer
3.   our reading the Word of God
4.   following the latest whim from Fullerton
(but has this been replaced by our allegiance to our local leaders?)

We used to demonstrate that I am of George when we said “Well this is what George or Betty said.

We now demonstrate that I am of the leading brothers (when we never question anything the leaders say when our conscience says it is wrong).

There are those who claim that things are different now. So I challenge any who have not left the Assembly because they believe this to be true to consider doing the following to be sure. Examine yourself before the Lord in these areas.

1.   Is there any hint of spiritual pride (we do it better or know more than other Christians);
2.   Do I have a desire to lord it over others and boss them around (Do I like to head up the outreaches, fellowships etc. and assign things to people and get upset when I am not asked to have this role).
3.   Do I teach others with stewardships that equip them for service as God sees fit? (Do I see their work as a means to better my lot by having them there only to fix and clean my home and pay down my mortgage faster? Are the stewardships demeaning and do I seek only to find fault in the way they are either carried out or accomplished);
4.   Do I understand what is a reasonable consequence for inappropriate behavior and do I practice the same behavior myself and not see it as a problem for me to do? (If you are mean and petty in giving consequences you are treating people like children. It is especially demeaning if the people you are assigning them are already adults). Consider what Jesus would say “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
5.   Do you avoid non-compliant members without first hearing their side of the story?
6.   Do you focus on performance in preaching, praying or outreach? (You can tell this one if you are always keeping stats on time number of points they gave and only focusing on the statistics of brothers preaching, recording how many times someone prayed and listing how many times people went on outreach and how many they are discipling).
7.   Am I truly humble? (the way we tell this one is our attitude of how we think we are doing and how others measure up to us. It may be seen in this prayer. I thank God I am not like all those other Christians in other churches I pray twice or more a day I read the Word twice or more a day, I go to weekly prayer meetings, I go to bible study, I disciple many people, I invite people over.
8.   Do I take pride in exhorting others for every little thing and would I respond to them the way I expect them to respond to me if the tables were turned?

If you try to fool yourself or others you may succeed for a while but remember that the LORD is never fooled and He is the judge of all unrighteousness.

Let me end by saying that I believe there may be some who really do think that things have changed. I don’t think so because the people are still saying the same old things I learned from the GG teachings and they will not seek independent outside help from a respected mature christian. Can things change? I hope so but you know only the Lord knows for sure.

Lord bless you all.

Still serving Him after all those years. ;D

Thanks for posting those extracts from I Corinthians 1 in The New Living Translation, Recovering Saint! I especially like this part:

27 …God deliberately chose things the world considers foolish ….
28 God chose things despised by the world, …
29 so that no one can ever boast in the presence of God.
30 God alone made it possible for you to be in Christ Jesus. … God made Christ to be wisdom itself. He is the one who made us acceptable to God. He made us pure and holy, and he gave himself to purchase our freedom.

Is this translation (The New Living Translation) available on the Internet, or did you copy that from a printed Bible?

Lord bless!
H

This is one of many translations online. I really like it. Most of my time in the Assembly we used the NASB but I have been trying out new translations to see how they put it.

http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=John+1&section=0&version=nlt&new=1&oq=&NavBook=1co&NavGoto=Go+To%3A&NavGo=1&NavCurrentChapter=1

This is the link for 1 Cor 1 in the New Living translation. BTW it is friendly for blind people with a sound byte link beside the title.

Lord bless you all

Today is my 6 month anniversary of leaving the Assembly. Whooooooooooooo Hoooooo!
Jumps up and down with heels clicking.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

And the heavenly angels said Praise the Lord for His mercy is everlasting.

     Technically, Hugh, anniversary means yearly (annual), but this occasion is SO worth celebrating, we'll overlook that:  So, Woooooooooooooo Hoooooooooooooooo back atcha!
     Congratulations, Brother, and many happy returns until our Lord's return!

al

Thanks Al I just couldn't wait for one year to celebrate. I've been through the system in a Church with no name it feels good to be out of that pain.

JULY 23RD AT 11:25TH:

I JUST NOW FOUND YOUR STORY. I am glad I took the time to browse through the posts.  
It was touching , encouraging, and worth repeating, and resurrecting for others to see.

Proverbs 22:4 (TLB)
 True humility and respect for the Lord lead a man to riches, honour and long life.

Job 22:28(RSV)
You will decide on a matter,, and it will be established for you, and light will shine on you ways.

Dear Brother, I just want to say thank you.

Lenore

"I had wanted to Serve the Lord, and thought I was doing so" this quote from Al. How many of us had this same heartfelt desire? Yes God can and does Redeem the time. Restoring the years that the Cankor worm has eaten. BTW Al in your Story you did'nt mention HOW you met the Saints could you elaborate on that when you have a free moment.?  Thanks...007.

Al,  Did you see this or are you toooo busy to answer???Summer..

     Well, Sis, I am busy, but I try real hard to not be TOO busy...

     I was hoping to find one of the old posts in which I have already told the tale, but...  That's the problem when you post a lot-- I know I told it, but I can't remember where I put it...

     Anyway, I suppose it bears retelling, for those who tuned in later:

     Once upon a time, in the late 1960s, there was a small group of dropouts from various churches who the Lord led by sundry pathways to find each other.  These bewildered souls met for prayer in each others' homes, for want of a better idea of how to follow the Lord, which was what they wanted to do.

     Among them were those you may have come to recognize as the Madduxes, the Hartmans, the Ironses and the Campbells (although the Campbells were not yet "the Campbells" at that point in time).

     The weekly gathering had settled upon the Maddux residence in the San Fernando Valley when Steve and Margaret Irons introduced George Geftakys into the mix.  (I'll refer you to the Ironses for the details of how that came to pass.)

     Eventually, that weekly meeting became a Bible study, at which "chapter summary" debuted, and in the fulness of time the first workers' meeting was born (in Fullerton, of course).  Before too long, the first seminar, The Attributes of God, took place, and in due course we began to break bread at Hillcrest Park in Fullerton.  I believe the first "assembly" meeting was in 1970.

     That's the Reader's Digest version...  If there are more specific questions, I'll try to offer more specific answers.

God bless,
al :D

Thanks Al,  that summery was sufficient. Yes I thought it would be easier to ask you then to look through 807 posts. I dont want to assume you were a student in California or part of the Hippie movement or other. I have most of the data on everything else, and I'm satisfied with that. Summer.

Summer,

     Just a couple more tidbits of info:  I came to So.CA & to Jesus Christ (in that order) as an enlistee in the U.S.Air Force in 1962.  Upon my separation from active duty in 1965, my identity as a Christian had been established.

     I met Cathy at Faith Center in Glendale, CA in January, 1966, and we were married there in November, 1967.  

     Sometime during the summer/fall of 1969 I quit my job, grew my beard, and toured the country with my pregnant wife in an old VW camper.  During that brief period, we may justifiably have been considered "Christian hippies."  I didn't think of us as such at the time, but Tom Maddux did and, in retrospect, I acquiesce to his discernment.

     Finally, I attended a trade school, followed by about two years at L.A. Pierce College in Woodland Hills, where I was involved in the campus outreach in the early 70s.

...and now you know the rest of the story...
al