AssemblyBoard

Dear friends:

Magic Mike needs to follow the lead of the other elders and full-time workers in the Geftakys group and step down.

He, in spite of his personable, easy going manner, was not able to spot a fraud.  He was also unable-unwilling to intervene on behalf of Judy, when he lived in their home for over a month.

He is a nice guy, and quite entertaining,  but he should not be allowed to gather the remaining groups and lead them.  In fact, he should not lead Omaha, for the same reasons that other leaders have stepped down elsewhere.

Hello Everyone

The website is not ending.  It will change of course.
Much of the posting right now will change, and we will all once again return to a more sane frame of mind.  The sad thing is that very many excellent posts get buried in flames.  It'll all work out.

In the mean time, what think you of this?

Dear Friends:

I would like to ask all of you to take 10 steps back from this whole thing, in your mind's eye.  Remove yourself from it, and pretend that a broken confused Christian, who is experiencing all of the events at the Assembly, but at another church, has come to you for counsel.  You can see that this person is sincere, but also confused and hurt.  As a strong, mature believer, who has advanced insight into the truth of God's word, you want this person to break free from any sort of bondage, and have joy and liberty in Christ.

This broken, confused brother has told you:

• The leader of his group is an adulterer and an immoral man
• All of the money is kept secret and is handled only by the immoral leader
• The leader's son is a wife beater and has his own, very dysfunctional life
• The leadership was all handpicked by the immoral, money loving leader
• Hundreds of former members of the group have identical stories about abuse and control
• 2 best-selling books and numerous articles by a Christian author called the group "Abusive"
• Every other Evangelical church in town counsels people to stay away from the group
• A national cult expert, and several leading Christian Cult awareness groups have called the group a cult, and former members have actually been de-programmed.
• There is a website about this dear confused brother's group, that has thousands of pages of testimonies that all point to the fact that something is seriously wrong

How would you counsel this person?

If this person turned out to be you, would you take your own counsel?

Take Six Weeks Off!

Brent

This issue MUST be dealt with.

What has Mike's role been?  As congress has so wisely asked in another tragedy -- "who knew what when?"

This isn't a thread intended to raise false accusations to destroy someone's testimony.

SERIOUS accusations have been raised against Mike Zach -- AND THEY MUST BE ANSWERED!!!!!

I really really have a hard time with the fact that he is leading the Teen conference, with all this contraversy surrouinding him.

MIKE -- IF IT'S NOT TRUE, ANSWER US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Others -- IF IT IS TRUE -- PROVIDE SPECIFIC DETAILS !!!!

The only thing I can wonder -- if this is a potential legal issue and people are keeping silent for wise (legal) reasons.

But come on people -- HOW CAN HE TEACH A TEEN'S CONFERENCE AND STILL LEAD THIS WORK WITH ALL THIS SURROUNDING HIM???????????????

Those that are protecting, covering and positioning him are as guilty now as those that have covered and protected george and david.

PROVIDE ANSWERS OR STEP DOWN UNTIL THIS IS SETTLED !!!!

And yes, with this going on, I would rather have my teens at a skating rink than being taught by someone who is accused of hiding wickedness, not having the backbone to deal with it -- AND AFRAID NOW TO SPEAK PUBLICALLY !!!!

Send your kids where you want -- mine are much safe where they are now than under this influence.

Here is a neat fact:

In December, the majority vote among the brothers was to stop George from having the seminar.  Mike Zach talked them into letting it go on, which meant people drove, had their kids on mats, and listened to an unrepentant fraud teach from the Bible!

Please read this post from an earlier thread:

Daniel, you asked so here goes...I've been a good Uncle and I've been silent all these years cause you were a child, but now you are a man.  Here it goes -

Your grandfather Chuck Miller and my Dad-in-law warned everyone in the family and in Omaha 25 years ago, he did it 20 years ago, he he warned them 15 years ago, he warned them 10 years ago, he warned them 5 years ago...About George!  About that Disgusting Fraud!  That Fraud who slandered your Grandpa to your Uncle Mike and all your Aunts.  It was a lynching.  Do you understand that? It was a hit job.  An assasination! Your Grandfather warned everyone about the Geftakys lies, about the Geftakys slander, about Geftakys destroying families, about Geftakys and the money, about Geftakys being a "pope", about Geftakys being an idol and a monster...

Daniel, for years our family of 53 has been split right down the middle.  George used Mike Zach like a sock-puppet!

Again, George used Mike Zach like a sock-puppet!

Like a two-dollar sock-puppet!

Two weeks ago your Aunt Ann was there at the assembly meeting on the 19th when the letters were read in Omaha, and she being there on that day (only her second meeting in 25 years...Is that God or what? ) - As Mike Zach read the letters the point was made that the men in SLO were repenting and were going to seek others out so as to "get right" with folks that they had sinned against, Mike Zach said (according to my wife, your Aunt)...

"We need to go to people, too - but, nobody comes to mind."

Nobody came to his mind. Daniel that was like a dagger in the heart of your Aunt Ann...This man destroyed a family 25 years ago.  Yes, if you read you will see this same sock-puppet Zach did nothing when he knew a woman was being beaten and abused.  This puppet doesn't need the hand anymore...he knows how to destroy families all by himself now.

What kind of monster is he, Daniel?

Your grandfather just wrote me from Costa Rica an hour ago and asked what what was happening in the assemblies, he questioned me closely about Omaha.  
I told him...

"Chuck, I think Mike Zach has a bullseye on his back. He's either going to break, repent and give God Glory or God's going to break him."

Daniel, I love you dear Nephew...You make me so happy.  Why, don't you write Grandpa at  chuckfmiller@hotmail.com and tell him yourself how you, your family and the little gathering are doing.

He might have some good insights on what to do next.  I'm going to encourage your Dad and everyone else there to take the Six Week Challenge that Brent encouraged for all the former assembly gatherings.

Blessing To You Sweet Nephew!  You're a godly young man.
I admire your courage.

Your Uncle Chuck.

Chuck Vanasse
chuck@vanant.com



Brent

Dear Guest

No, I was not at the meeting, but I spoke with 2 or 3 who were.  Let everything be confirmed in the mouth of 2 or three witnesses.

Were you there?  If so, what was your version of events?
Also, is Guest your real name?

Brent

Throughout my years of attendance, the Teen and Teachers conferences have been a huge blessing in my life, not because of the teaching, but because of the people who also attend and whom i am able to consol and pray with.  As for teaching it, i am sure he will address any issues at the very beginning, if not, i for one will ask him.  Just saying, there is more to the TTC's than just the ministry of the brother (in fact, of all the years i have been to them, i dont remeber a single one of the messages).  I look at it more of a time to hang around with other christian teens that you only see 2 or 3 times a year, and to pray with many of those whose consol you respect.  

Lucas

you guys should all just go on a ski trip.  Snowboard, ski, drink hot chocolate, and hang out.  Have a simple time of prayer, etc.

You can have a great time, and not have to worry about messages you don't remember.  If your folks will fly you out here, I'll hook you up with our church's highschool ministry and you can hang with them on one of their trips.

Brent

My experience with christian teens is not at all limited to those in the assembly, if that is what you are refering to (thanks for the offer tho :)).  Since i can make it to so few of the assembly meetings, i am involved with quite a few youth groups at churchs in the area.  As for the messages at the TTC's, i was not saying that they were not encouraging at the time, but only that my lasting memories about events that have shaped my life revolve around fellowship with these blesses brothers and sister.

This place has become a shooting gallery for the people left behind in this whole mess.  the problem is the targets are not allowed to defend themselves....

Tim, defend yourself if your innocent...or Mike defend yourself if your innocent...Get your witnesses.  This site is gathering and has gathered witnesses against you.  They are coming forward.....Repent Gentlemen!

They are certainly allowed to defend themselves.  They may come on this board and state their points of view for an open dialogue (not what we were allowed to do while in the assembly.)  We would all welcome these people to come here and "set the record straight."  What I find so telling, is they are well aware of this sight and won't come here to dialogue with us.

What nonsense!

The problem is they're running and won't defend themselves.  Compose yourselves Mr. Z and Mr. G. and come make your case.  

The innocent have nothing to fear.

Chuck,

This site has become a shooting gallery.

Anyone can come in and start any string
regarding anything. You, Arthur and others
have been drawn off to distractions. Argue
if you want, but theological debates are only
of value in the mind of the debator.

Rudy

Agreed.  I haven't started any string, I'm not debating. When you say this site has become a shooting gallery is that a statement of fact, a criticism or what?  I'm not arguing with anyone...I'm posting the history of divisiveness that hit Omaha in 1978 - Not arguing or debating. Stating very old facts that have killed and are killing many souls.

Yes, the unexposed sin there has been a distraction for me -granted.  25 years of silence came to an end one week ago in Omaha.  TThe code of silence is broken.  This is a good distraction, Rudy.  Truth is good.

Thanks, Rudy. God Bless you...I enjoy your posts.

Chuck,

Take some time if you haven't to see what's happening
across the board. There are "guests" starting whatever.
And don't say it doesn't matter. There is a crossection
of good posters that get tunnel vision on the theological
stuff, and someone like HH gets ignored. I've done what
I can to keep this from happening; my conscience is clear.

Rudy

Rudy, I'm not sure I understand what you mean...How can I keep others from digressing?  Let's both stick to our calling...I'm glad your conscience is clean, so is mine.

I agree let's encourage the fainthearted.

Keep up the good work, blessed friend...Chuck

John 8:7

Isaiah 50:8
He is near that justifieth me; who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary? let him come near unto me.  

This is a promise for Mike Zach.  We stand together.  God will be the judge and he knows all the answers.  

The website motto: Guilty until proven innocent.  

How abstract!

I see that we have moved on to a new target.  Let the mud flinging begin.

Good day, friends.

indeed... :-X (that was not sarcasm)

I don't believe that we are trying to "punish" Mike here, but rather are presenting serious concerns.

Mike, please address these concerns.  If any of these accusations are false, please correct this with the truth.  If there is any need for repentance, please humble yourself and repent.  Whether you are guilty or innocent, you need to let these people know where you stand.  It is not healthy to let things continue like this, please respond.

In defense of Mike and Cheryl Z from someone who has not communicated with either of them recently:

quote from a sister in fellowship in Omaha, where Mike Zach is:
    I was sad to hear of your negative experiences.  I am still in fellowship in Omaha and am still loving God's people and growing with them.  We have all been repenting of the sins of how we were affected by George's sins.  We are repenting of superiority, of presuming to know the will of God for others and for legalism and lack of care at times.  We are seeing a renewed sense of expectation and joy.  We are glad that the Lord has exposed the sins of George and of their effects and are believing God to do a new work.
end quote.

I am assuming that Mike Z is included in the "all been repenting".  God fully accepts the repentant sinner, and we all should as well.
None of us should presume that this BB and website has precipitated the exposure of George and Betty's sins.
In fact, may I humbly suggest, with all due respects to Judy who has suffered so long, that Mike and Cheryl Z may have contributed to that exposure firstly by praying for Judy's situation, and then by being involved in sending Danny Edward to SLO.  It was Danny's faithfulness that brought about the demise, with the help of those in SLO who have left.  In the end we believe that it was the Lord's doing and it is marvelous in our eyes, because He is doing a new work.

Dear Guest

Your last post is such a blatant rewrite of history, and total fabrication of the facts, that I am truly shocked.

If this sort of thing continues, I am going to put all the old material back on the main page.

For the record, Danny, Kimber, Suzie and I spent time on our boat last SUNDAY, and then went to dinner.  Danny has repented of his role in the ministry, and has stepped down from leadership.  

Did you hear that guest?  He repented, of SIN.  He was not "faithful," but passive.  BTW,  I am "with the help of those in SLO who have left."  

Danny is a giant to me right now, not because of how faithfull he was, but because of how clear he is in his repentance.  You will not hear me say anything negative about him, even though I had plenty to say in the past. He has repented.  You are right about one thing guest, God fully accepts the repentant sinner.  I agree, and that is why I consider Danny Edwards to be my brother and friend.  Totally different story with George, David, Betty and others of their servants.  Guest, you are an ignorant, foolish man/woman.

I will not re-write history, as Guest has done, in order to lie about or protect someone.

Your "respect" to Judy makes me sick, guest.

The bulletin board format is going to change today.

Brent

Dear Guest:

Have you even read the articles on the main page of this website?  DUH!!!!!!!!! ::)

Mike and Cheryl Zach - repenting?????????  Where is the proof of this repentance?  I talk with Rachel daily and last time I spoke with her (yesterday) no letter of apology to her or her mother.  

Danny's "faithfulness that brought about the demise" of the assembly????? HUH? ::)   How many times did people speak with Danny (Brent, Kirk, etc.) until this situation was brought to light?  It is only through this website, and the pressure it brought to bear upon the assembly, that has caused the "demise" (I would like to see that, it isn't truly "demised" yet, only floundering.)  

There is so much more left to do in the exposing of men (and women for that matter), this is not over.  And of course, when men and women truly repent, we are to forgive and receive them (that doesn't mean you trust them.)  Let's see the "fruits of repentance" before we begin making blanket statements like yours.

Guest's take on things is exactly the kind of spin that would be coming from the leaders-who-are-no-longer-leaders in the assemblies.  I expect this perspective is widespread among those who remain there.  It serves to keep people away from this website (milieu control).

It is so easy to lose track and forget some of the events that have just occurred. It is human nature to lose the energy and fervor very much like if one begins a marathon with an all out sprint. This is not a sprint. This effort is an "iron man" event and the mindset required is a commitment to Truth. We must continue to kick over the stones of deception along the way. We can't let the voices like those of "guest" that enter our consciousnes along the way to lessen our resolve. The race is not over.

It is also common to find the indignant emotion and even repentance receding.  We can expect those who have expressed initially that they had sinned and resigned from leadership soon attempt to regain position. That may be a conscious decision or it may just be inevitable. After all, a scorpion does what a scorpion does... it's in his nature.

Here is a litmus test for true repentance for the "scorpions":

Contact Judy?  No speeches, no false spirituality, no niftly applied metaphors like, "this is a Catch-22 for me" or, "I am damned if I do, damned if I don't". Just simply do what apparently Danny Edwards has done.

Quite so Tony

In all of this, Danny has been the most pleasant surprise.

He really did repent, and is bearing the fruit of it.  

Danny Edwards is a real Christian.

Brent

Well it looks like the Teen and Teachers Conference was cancelled, so I guess Mike couldn't lead it after all. Snowed out.

Good call Brent, perhaps there is a reason behind why snow caused the cancellation. ;D

Regarding the Teen and Teacher's conference.


Due to the fact that Mike Zach had to step down from preaching for unknown reasons, his son Dan made himself available to do the teaching at the Teen and (Teacher?) conference.  It was a real gesture of humility and service on the part of Dan to fill in for his Dad at the last minute like that, and especially since the conference was so important for the perpetuation of the wonderful ministry that George raised up, and that Mike sustained for all those years.  (That was sarcastic folks)

God had other plans, and cancelled the conference due to weather.  (His weather plans included too much snow)

I think the teens will recover, although they must have been sore dissappointed to miss the lecture's headed up by 25 year old Dan.

Next step in Omaha:

Leaders repent and step down.

Next step after that:

close up shop and go out of business as a Geftakys franchise.


Brent

Here in Springfield the snow was flying that Saturday and I was on the computer quite a bit.  I had two main sites going: this one and the Weather Underground Radar for the MW.  It was amazing: big snow on I-80 in Iowa (between Omaha & Camp Wyoming)  on I-80 in Illinois (between Chicago and Camp Wyoming) and on I-55/74 (between Springfield/Charleston/St. Louis and Camp Wyoming).  Amazing!!  :o :o ;)

i don't think you adults really know how much we needed that conference. friends we've grown up we may never see again and that may have been our last chance to see them. last teen conference was awesome and dan talked and did a great job. our parents were not forcing us to go. we wanted very much to go. people drove 20 hrs. there and back just to go. it was hard but the Lord knows better and that may sound cliche but it's true and i believe it.

THIS IS TOM MADDUX

Dear Lookingaway,

1. "this may be our last chance to see them."  Not so, grow up, buy a car, drive over.  This is the good old USA!

2. Meanwhile talk all you want on the internet.  That's why Al Gore invented it.

Tom M.

Lookingaway;
Speaking for myself, I do understand the importance there was to see friends you've grown up with perhapes for the last time..
When we told our daughter her eyes swelled up with tears and that was hard for us.  :'(
We encourage her and her brothers to e-mail, write letter, call ot visit their friends when ever they can.
The Lord does know best.  Keep looking to Him and trusting God to work in your life and the lives of your friends.  
Don't write us adultes off as not carring.   We do. :)

When did the editor start allowing guests to post?  I liked it when we could all talk and agree and disagree-knowing who it was exactly we were talking with!

I agree.

I caught some heat for bringing this up last night.

Well, I did make a 'strong' case  8)

For those of you who are not reading the documents posted by either Rachel or Judy let me remind you of something: Mike & Cheryl Zach stayed with Dave & Judy during a month period in 1999.

BUT: Mike & Cheryl Zach witnessed, did you catch that word? They witnessed an attack. They were witnesses!

How can you say they are wonderful people when they covered up sin?

For the least action, they could have called 911 anonymously!

Hey, what happened to Rudy?

I heard he's posting as "Guest" now since he got booted.

thanx arthur

rudy

 ;D   :D   ;)

Regarding 'Magic Mike' - the only reason i can think of for this nickname is that he used to do 'magic' tricks. He said it wasn't an issue since it wasn't really 'magic'. How did he get this new nickname? Does he still do tricks?

There's no majic - it's illusion. :) ;D

The Lord is good!!!

Mike was addressing the Omaha assembly.

Any apology due to Judy Geftakys or Joyce Hines
can be considered a personnal matter. But considering
that the facts were brought out on a public forum and
website before his repentance - there should be some
public statement regarding the issues brought up.
Meaning being, in this cyber 'church' where everyone is
involved, not just Omaha.

Dear (daughter) Pat,

Please read carefully, Mike's letter of repentance.  To me, there are two phrases that cast doubt upon his sincerity.  Let me know if you don't see them.

I would love to be reconciled with Mike and others in the Omaha Assembly, but am not going to accept qualifying statements that cast doubt upon the integrity of his letter.

Love, Dad

Dear Mr. Miller:

I, too, am concerned with how carefully Mike Zach's letter was worded.  But my response to his letter is, "It's a start".  I am aware that Mike is not naive and innocent; but I believe that he probably does not even have the capability to grasp the depth of the error of his ways yet.  
At the end of Mike's letter, he asks for prayer.  I think we need to be patient and continue to pray for him and for the other gatherings that have not disbanded.  Again, it's a start.  There is much work for Mike to do to truly make things right with people.

 

Dear Nancy,

Yes, it is a start and we are praying.  I hope that everything you say is true, since Mike and I were at one time as close as any father and son.

I would like to have that relationship restored.

Thank you for your prayers.

Chuck Miller

Chuck, I agree with Nancy...It is not the repentance I would have written for Mike Zach; nevertheless, it's an unprecedented start for this man.

Let's see what "deeds in keeping with his repentance" comes forth from Mike.  No one is giving him a free pass. He's still getting his "land-legs" in walking in the light.  

Let's show him grace, let's be patient, let's love him and believe all things...And, as Nancy says let's pray for him.  

I do know, from Wayne Mathews, that Mike has made a determination to get right with you.  When you speak with him, I'd encourage you to express your concerns.

From here on, his life will be under a microscope.  In the end, he will be judged by his actions of repentance and contrition rather than by mere words alone.

Chuck Vanasse
chuck@vanant.com

Patty, Amen!

We need to show these men grace.  Give them time to start doing genuine deeds of righteousness.  Ask yourself how would you like to be treated if the tables were turned?

These men need to see that being honest about their sins meets with the love and consolation of the church.

Where we have particular reservations about these men and about what they are doing "to get right with God's people" we should go to them directly.

As time progresses, godly deeds and the bringing forth of "fruits of repentance" will far out-weigh any current concerns we have concerning Mike Zach's word choice.

Hi Pat,

In case you haven’t  found the phrases that concern me in Mike Zach’s letter of repentance, let me quote them to you:

1. “My intentions were good”

 I believe that a truly repentant man would have to say, “I admit that my intentions were not always good.”  In saying that “my intentions were good,”  it is tantamount to saying, “Yes, I did some wrong or evil things, but  not intentionally.”   I’m at a loss to understand how the two are compatible.  When (biblical) David’ s sin was exposed by Nathan, he didn’t waste any time making excuses, but immediately said, “I have sinned against the Lord.”

2. “I am not leaving, but am using this opportunity to “seek to clear myself”  in every way of all wrongdoing.”  

I believe that a truly repentant man would say, “I am going to use this opportunity to confess all of my wrongdoings, repent of them,  and make whatever restitution that I can to those whom I have sinned against. “   In saying,  I’m going to use this opportunity to “clear myself,”  it sounds as if Mike would like to justify some of the things he did.  Surely he should be given the opportunity to clear himself of any false charges, but the paramount issue in his mind at this time should be confession, repentance and restitution.  
This might have just been an unintentional slip on Mike’s part, but this is not the time for any more unintentional errors.  When God convicts the heart, he breaks a man of any false humility

3. ”I have not acted above reproach  as an elder and for this reason  I am stepping down as an elder and leading brother”

I believe that a truly repentant man would have said, “I have not BEEN above reproach, and am therefore UNQUALIFIED to be an elder”   It is not Mike’s choice whether or not to step down.  The word of God disqualifies him.  He was brought down, in God’s eyes, when he continuously violated those qualifications and refused to repent.    Oh, he may have retained the title and office in the Omaha Assembly, but  God set him down a long time ago.  Is that nit-picking?  Then charge me with nit-picking., but I believe that Paul would have picked a few nits in Mike’s repentance statement.  

Please, understand this.  Mike and I were once as close as two brothers could be and I cherish some of the fond memories and good fellowship we had together.  I jealously want that relationship fully restored for my sake, and FOR MIKE’S SAKE.  If we truly love Mike we want to see him fully restored to fellowship with God.  He doesn’t have to answer to me or anyone else, but we should expect to be seeing some fruit in keeping with repentance

Incidentally, I’ve heard all of the pleas for allowing more time to repent yet I haven’t heard anybody say, “Sure, George’s repentance doesn’t sound genuine, but it’s a start.  Let’s give him some time.”  Would not have Paul said, “Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.”  And didn’t  Paul’s exhortation eventually lead to the sinful man’s repentance?  It is restoration, not punishment that is the purpose of discipline.  With all my heart, I desire that for Mike.

But it seems like, in the eyes of some,  I’m becoming the bad guy for not just “forgiving and forgetting.”  But, I want my grandchildren to hear from those who slandered me to say, “Your grandfather is not a liar and a rebellious man.”    Sure, I know everything will be made right at the judgement seat of Christ, but is it entirely wrong for an old man to want to have his name cleared with his own children and grandchildren and those whom he loves.  I don’t want to settle for anything less.  And please don’t imagine that you know how I feel until you’ve walked in my shoes for 25 years.   Do you know what it’s like to sit down with your grandchildren and wonder what they truly think about you in their hearts.  Oh, I’m not on a pity party ---- or maybe I am.   Pity me for wanting my reputation restored.  Pity me for wanting a genuine reconciliation with Mike.  Pity me for wanting to spend my remaning time on this earth seeing my children’s relationships genuinely restored.   Pity me for having a concern for the next generation of Assembyites who wilI suffer if the crux of the problem isn’t dealt with by this one.  Pity me for wanting my kids to get down on their knees and beg their mother’s forgiveness for the 25 years of anguish and heartache they’ve caused.   And, most of all, pity me if, after 25 years of prayer for genuine reconciliation, I would settle for a cheap imitation.

 I thank God that the bitterness is gone, but I left the Assembly on principal 25 years ago.  Some would now have me compromise that principal  and just chalk it up to a bad experience.  These things might be painful for Mike to hear, but he must understand that I am more eager to forgive than he is to ask forgiveness.  We talk a lot about  showing “true” love.  Let’s  quit  talking and do it, God’s way.

My kids have written me many letters thanking me for my strictness in not allowing them to do things that their friends got to do when they were growing up.  They didn’t thank me at the time.  I want them to thank me some day (even if it’s in the kingdom) for not giving in to the pressure and  settling fort less than God’s best for all concerned.

I have heard from Mike and we will be talking this week.  Please pray for us.

In His love,

Dad

Hi Chuck,
You don't know me, I came into the Assembly (Springfield) in 1978. (I was at Wayne & Pat's wedding that year. I remember seeing you there and being aware of some hushed and troubled discussions going on that were my first hint of "trouble in Paradise".)  Further, I don't really feel  qualified to comment on the issue of Mike's relationship w/you.  But, here goes anyway...

I think you are entirely correct to expect a full, honest, repentance on Mike's part.  I too was somewhat disappointed because of the two statements in his letter (that you have also been troubled about).  However, I also think that your daughter Pat did an exceptional job of calling for patience in this matter.  In no way did I sense that she was suggesting that you compromise.  "Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD." Ps 27:14  It is God alone who will change Mike.  (Remember, many of us have been deeply involved in this oppressive system for many years.  You have been out for 25 years.)

I very much agree w/Pat's assessment of the varied responses of different individuals.  I am one who suddenly "saw the light", but most of the "leadership" I've been involved with took a considerably longer time and some are still not entirely in the clear.

I do believe that you and your wife will enjoy the full restoration of your family.  I believe the stage is now set.  For that I will earnestly pray!

Your brother in Christ...

Hi Tim,

I sent a copy of my post (below) to Mike and to Mark Sjogren.  Since then they have called me  (conference call) and wanted to know what I thought they should do to confirm the genuiness of their repentance.  I wrote a lengthy  account of how I have perceived the events of the past 25 years and what I thought had to happen now.  They answered and said they would call tonight to talk some more.  I'm encouraged.  Please pray for the time.

Hi Tim,

The conference call was not all that we would have hoped it would be, so we will reserve judgement until we receive a letter from them, giving their perspective on the events preceeding and following our departure from the Omaha Assembly.

Chuck

Hi Tim,

The conference call was not all that we would have hoped it would be, so we will reserve judgement as we  wait to receive a letter from them, giving their perspective on the events preceeding and following our departure from the Omaha Assembly.

Chuck

Hello Everyone!

[/b]

Mark Sjogren and Mike Zach are pursuing reconciliation with everyone and anyone that they have sinned against, they are repenting, seeking forgiveness - and, that includes my wife Ann who is one of the nine Miller children (Pat Mathews, Nancy Lehmkuhl, Becky Cohen, Chris Sjogren, Mike Miller).  The Miller family was split up by the Assembly 25 years ago.  Ann received gracious letters from both Mark and Mike.  And, yes, she does forgive them!  

Reconciliation is happening with Jon Legran and his family and wonderful things are happening between my father-in-law Chuck Miller and Mike Zach as well as Mark Sjogren.

I have heard from a witness that Mike Zach asked John Malone to forgive him!  Face-to-face!  Praise God!  I do believe in miracles.  But more!  John Malone said that he forgives Mike Zach!  Miracles!

God Bless You Mike Zach!  Mark Sjogren I see the Lord alive and working in you!  A Tsumani of grace!

Our family is realizing a dream come true!  Tragedy has turned into rejoicing!

It's grace people - Amazing Grace! ...This is Christianity!  This is Jesus at work.

Chuck Vanasse
chuck@vanant.com