- What God wishes the Assembly knew about Christianity

What God Wishes the Assembly Knew about Christianity
(Title inspired by Bill Gillham’s book: What God Wishes Christians Knew about Christianity…highly recommended, by the way!)

1. That Abraham received the inheritance by promise
2. That forgiveness is based on the work of Christ
3. That outer-darkness is for demons and the unsaved
4. That Jesus came to remove the heavy burden
5. That the overcomer is one that believes in Christ
6. That there is one glorious rapture when God is ready
7. That people can & should be allowed to grow up
8. That common sense is helpful
9. That a person that lacks patience is not very godly
10. That Jesus was not a hemophiliac (His blood did coagulate before He rose again)
11. That being sick and tired all the time is a sign of being too busy
12. That a church that has to clear nearly every decision with a central command is not autonomous
17. That boasting in what you don’t do turns people off
18. That blindly submitting to leaders is foolish
19. That if someone tells you what the will of God is for you, they may or may not be right
20. That believers don’t all have to do the same things to express unity
21. That God does tell some people to leave the Assemblies
22. That there are carnal Christians in the Assemblies
23. That the Pope is not infallible
24. That some people do glorify God with musical instruments as demonstrated in the book of Revelation
25. That God is trying to save sinners, not scare saints
26. That not owning a TV doesn’t make you godly
27. That God is not upset if you celebrate His Son’s birth
28. That the Holy Spirit is much more motivating than shame and intimidation
29. That we, like Jesus, should have boundaries that keep others from violating our personhood and mission
30. That others should not control any part of me
31. That shepherds care for their flocks
32. That insensitive leaders are not like Christ

Just some thought I put together. What other things have I left out? Love to hear some feedback. :D

Freebird, You ROCK!! 8)

;DThe name reminded me of one of my Highschool garage band anthems.

Greg, great point about autonomy. If the gatherings are autonomous--nobody really believes this--then why indeed do they all send the money to Fullerton, or perhaps Omaha? Sounds an awful lot like headquarters to me. BTW, there are poor everywhere, but George is in Fullerton. He knows what to do with the money, you don't.

Ladies and Gentlemen, it is like the emperor with no clothes. Everyone can see it, but no one says anything. Well, now people are.

Have you guys read Terry Huffman's Christmas story? It's a real grinner.

God Bless all of you. If you are worried that you aren't overcoming, go to our great High Priest, to find GRACE to help in time of need. What you lack in "overcoming ability" he will more than make up for with free grace.

Grace gains a willing heart,

Brent

Great Post Freebird!
Did you get your handle from the restaurant of the same name in Isla Vista?
I guess we have to add a new comparison between true Christian practice and the Assembly and that is the relationship between Christian Employers and Employees.
I will use his name because it was such a dirty deed! Tim McCarthy decided to lay off Kimberely Tobin and Eric Buchmann because they left the Assembly in The Valley! :o This should show that all the false humility that Tim exhibits around the Saints is just that; false! All I can say is, "what a creep! :P
I pray that Eric and Kimberley get much better jobs soon and that God continues to bless their recovery from Assembly abuses.
God Bless the truly repentant, Mark

I am re-posting this, as I am concerned that people will hug and kiss, only to return to the old ways. Forgiveness is MANDATORY, but God desires MERCY, FAITH and JUDGEMENT ...Matthew 23:23 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."

What God Wishes the Assembly Knew about Christianity
(Title inspired by Bill Gillham’s book: What God Wishes Christians Knew about Christianity…highly recommended, by the way!)

1. That Abraham received the inheritance by promise
2. That forgiveness is based on the work of Christ
3. That outer-darkness is for demons and the unsaved
4. That Jesus came to remove the heavy burden
5. That the overcomer is one that believes in Christ
6. That there is one glorious rapture when God is ready
7. That people can & should be allowed to grow up
8. That common sense is helpful
9. That a person that lacks patience is not very godly
10. That Jesus was not a hemophiliac (His blood did coagulate before He rose again)
11. That being sick and tired all the time is a sign of being too busy
12. That a church that has to clear nearly every decision with a central command is not autonomous
13. That boasting in what you don’t do turns people off
14. That blindly submitting to leaders is foolish
15. That if someone tells you what the will of God is for you, they may or may not be right
16. That believers don’t all have to do the same things to express unity
17. That God does tell some people to leave the Assemblies
18. That there are carnal Christians in the Assemblies
19. That the Pope is not infallible
20. That some people do glorify God with musical instruments as demonstrated in the book of Revelation
21. That God is trying to save sinners, not scare saints
22. That not owning a TV doesn’t make you godly
23. That God is not upset if you celebrate His Son’s birth
24. That the Holy Spirit is much more motivating than shame and intimidation
25. That we, like Jesus, should have boundaries that keep others from violating our personhood and mission
26. That others should not control any part of me
27. That shepherds care for their flocks
28. That insensitive leaders are not like Christ

Just some thought I put together. What other things have I left out? Love to hear some feedback.

What about 13 to 16!

Great list otherwise.

Reading this and other things this morning has made me think of the years I was involved and the happenings that occurred in other places. I wonder now how much of that was others moving into freedom that we so blindly and blandly called leaving.

I'll add one (maybe more later!) [Note this actually occured with me too!]

33. That going to another gathering that is not the assembly is NOT leaving the Light
34. That taking a step back to evaluate why you are doing the things you are doing is not sinful and walking in darkness.

May we remember that which the Lord delivered us from and instead be faithful men and women in the places the Lord has led us.

dsjogren,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply but....

This is what I was actually told. I'm not kidding. The day I left the SFO assembly which is where I had gone after 13 years in SLO I was told by a leading bropther that my decision to seek other fellowship for a time so that I could evaluate why I was doing what I was doing was, and I quote, 1 John 1:7 "By leaving you are walking into the darkness. You are leaving the light."

While the list might be as you call it "taking shots", unfortunately this is exactly the mindset of those in the assembly in SLO and SFO at the time of my leaving. I can not specifically speak for the others or currently. I would hope with all that is occuring that it has indeed changed and there will be repentance and reconcilliation.

I agree that we need to edify but it also time to call a spade a spade and speak the truth. While I have no other desire but for reconciliation. The truths of the list are hitting at the legalistic list of do's and don'ts that were placed upon us while in the Assembly. I am glad that its not what your gathering would do. I by no means meant to take a shot but simply was adding to history.

I trust we can all move on greater and higher things. Looking at the past and seeing what a bright future could be in store if we simply follow the true head.

Please feel free to contact me off-line if I can shead more light or you would like to talk further. A perspective from the inside might be refreshing and helpful for me too. (or post here, I've checked the box so I know if there are further psots.)

Lord Bless to you too,

Paris Templin
650.508.0877
ptemplin7@earthlink.net

Amen Daniel,

Sorry If I gave that idea. Unfortunately it was very prevalent in SLO and SFO. I hope ideed the attitudes have changed, but the teaching including that of George and the others was that the Assembly was the true way. I trust you will continue to look and consider. I know from having been an insider that the truth from the outrside is very different from the view inside.

If you haven't read Kirk paper on the main website you should. I hope you continue to contribute as well. Let us know what is happening. BTW where are you involved now?

You have to understand Dan, that the teachings that are prevalent throughout the Assembly are thought by mainstream christianity to be cultish. Read the book by Enroth, "Churches that Abuse". The Assembly is in there. We were all told this man, Enroth, was just way off about our gatherings. NO!!!! He was right on. I don't know how old you are, but you have swallowed the assembly thinking hook, line and sinker. Yes, there are supposedly many things that are changing in the Assembly. There needs to be a lot of change! They need to bring in mainstream christianity's pastoral staff to assure that how they continue (if they continue) is done, not as George has directed for these last 30+ years, but according to accepted biblical practices. The stories that are surfacing now are simply the symptom of a disease, that of false doctrine being promulgated. If they only deal with the symptoms, they will not irradicate (sp??) the disease and the same fruit will be born in years hence.

I want you to carefully consider what men and women on this board are discussing with you as they care for your soul.

Dan, I came across this from one of John Malone's old posts. Is Mark Sjogren related to you?

Chuck Miller, who led his wife and 9 children out of Romanism, and to faith in Jesus Christ, began having a handful or two of mostly ex-Roman Catholics into his home for the study of Scripture, and for remembrance of the Lord's death in his appointed way.

I was not among them, and received this information from Chuck and Mary Ann Miller a couple of years ago, following their 50th wedding anniversary. Shortly after this small gathering of former Catholics (and former Pentecostals) began to meet together, Mike Zach met George Geftakys through Walt Stanky of Norfolk, Nebraska.

George provided Mike an opportunity to rival the superior age of Chuck Miller, and Chuck, being an affable fellow, welcomed George's "experience" and "leadership." According to Chuck, "I should have known, when George told us to quit breaking bread until he came back, that he was up to no good. There was no reason for us to stop doing what we knew the Lord commands."

Indeed, the slide into Georgism, Lodgism, and Geftakysitis was on the way. George began to take over, and sent Jim Hayman to secure the Lodge along its way.

About 2 years after Hayman's appearane - Jim did most of the preaching - Chuck Miller decided to stop selling insurance. He and Zach sold together, ostensibly, but the fact is neither of them sold much. Zach disagreed with Chuck working with his hands instead of selling insurance, and quickly swung George to his side.

With George, Jim and Mike against Chuck's liberty to work as he chose, it was not long before he became an offender, especially when he said, "I don't care what George thinks about this, the Lord wants me to do something else." Then he did the unthinkable: he slammed his hand on a table, for emphasis!

Not only did Chuck and MaryAnn Miller become persona non grata but their post-high-school single children except Patty went to "summer school" in Fullerton, and never returned to their home, separating themselves by 1,700 miles from their parents.

This was blatant manipulation of the Miller family by Zach and Geftakys, and Jim Hayman was the one who sold it to the rest of us in Omaha. Jim soon began to get ill, and that illness or weakness lasted well after he returned to the Goleta are, in SoCal.

Mike Zach propped up Mark Sjogren to be a "co-leading brother" with him, and the fact that Mark was Chuck Miller's son-in-law, and that Chuck's oldest daughter Patty would just shake her head about her father, pretty much certified to the rest of us that Chuck must have some serious problem. He determined - like so many erroneously do - to not discuss his viewpoint with those who asked him.

It was a tragic mistake.

When I exited 4 weeks ago, after 28 years in the assemblies, I was of the opinion that the doctrine was correct, it just was not practiced.

I am still just starting to see things, but currently I believe that like Scofield said about Revelation 2:6,15 What in Ephesus was deeds, had become in Pergamos a doctrine.

Prayerfully consider where doctrine was used to justify:

pride
proud and untrained men in authority
absolute authority of leadership
leadership that is not accountable to anyone
separating ones from their natural family
fathers not spending time with their children
husbands failing to talk to and listen to their wives
spouse and child abuse both physical and verbal
unqualified counselors and then preventing ones from receiving needed psychological counseling
bad counsel overruling your conscience
elitism
separation from rest of the Body of Christ
disagreement and criticism treated as divisiveness
gossip, especially at workers' meetings
slandering ones that have left
controlling mainly the outer appearance
intolerance
making ones an offender for using the wrong word
acceptance based on performance
motivating out of fear
pressuring ones
hectic schedules
judging ones based on meeting attendance
funds misused or not accounted for
sending funds off to the "work" when there were needs at home

Even if you do not believe "any" of this applies to where you were, there may be others (such as me) that need to repent of allowing these things.

2 Peter 3:16b which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Regarding the book, "Churches that Abuse" by Enroth.

I have heard over the years that the standard assembly line on this book is that it is "all lies".

I was an eyewitness to many of the incidents in this book and it is NOT all lies.

The young man that wanted to be a police officer was Art Zamora.

The main character, Kyle Larson, is fictitious, as Enroth says. He is a composite of the stories of Dennis Patrick and Kurt Green.

There is one line about me. "Those who fell from favor, particularly the older members who persisted in questioning his teaching and authority, were ostracized and ridiculed."
Yup. That wasn't much fun. But I would like to point out that I never met Enroth until AFTER the book was written. This is what he was told in interviews with others. They got it right though.

So, I can personally testify that these are not lies, that the book portrays real events about real people.

So one can see that accusations about GG's teachings and practices are not just "generalizations". They are true, and most of them were in place from the very beginning.

Thomas Maddux

Dan and others,

I realize that many people are indeed "wounded pilgrims" at this time. Therefore I can be entreatable toward my sarcasm. So, I honestly looked over my list with an attitude to change or delete whatever I thought was inappropriate. As you all can see, I have changed nothing. Now let me explain.

Here is my burden: Gal. 5:1 "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."

I originally posted these "thoughts" as a way to get others to think about what they were experiencing and being taught in the assemblies. I reposted with the concern that none of the issues (practice and doctrine) would be addressed, allowing for further abuse.

If any are offended, please don't take it personal. These are directed more toward the "system" that governed the assemblies. When I left 3 years ago (before any of the recent trouble has emerged), I noticed many unhealthy teachings and practices. I am not throwing stones here. I am trying to help people to begin to think and act in healthy ways.

Please give me a chance, you might find that I am on your side.

Garth

Garth,

I agree. They really aren't personal attacks but instead things and truths that were espoused in various forms and methods.

These simple statements seem like over generalizations yet they are really the end result of much of what was taught.

Remember as well that there were many other great things taught. Let's make sure we don't throws the baby out with the bathwater. Just as in Corith. There were massive problems yet Paul was able to commend them on some things they managed to get right. And we see that after the major problems were dealt with that the gathering there can out stronger and healthier than before.

Garth I had to chuckle the first time I read the list because like it or not this is what was taught or if not taught, practiced. I think that some on the inside still have not really had it "practiced" on them. This makes it very difficult to see the truth of many of the statements. It takes perspective that one doesn't have until stepping back from situation.

I think that many of the "thoughts" are indeed being openly challenged now and will continue to be.

The process of discovery is painful but it does lead to openness and light at the end. Including blessing and freedom that only our God and Father can give.

On the path of greater freedom too, Paris Templin

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General Discussion => Any and All Topics => : freebird December 06, 2002, 10:04:23 AM