AssemblyBoard

Well

I read that Laura felt good here ....

Laura also said the first day I knew God Sent me here!

Laura first feelings lie and are not the measure of
truth.
You said the first day ,when did you get time to test
the truth ?
When did you get time to read the bible alone with God?

Feeling are not the hallmark of Truth ..
The Word of God is ....

I do feel good here.  I do feel at peace here. I do have a walk with good here.  I have been here 18 years. I have prayed for guidance in where to worship.  I still have peace.


I do not hold the assembly gatherings as *The Ultimate Meeting* place. In fact, over the past 3 years, i have attended a church local to where i live more frequently than i have the assembly meetings.  I believe that the Lord has called me to worship with the believers in the Chicago assembly, but i certianly do not believe that is where he has exclusively called me.

As for Laura, I found her testimony encouraging.  Do you not have faith in a God that can do anything?  Why doubt it ESPECIALLY when it is someone sharing what they have lived and experienced?

It is clear Luke that you jump into things just like
Laura and you see her accepting the assembly
in one day as God's hand ?
And in your 18 years you have been blind ..
Feeling count on judging truth !!

Well that's how people get into cults ..

You must judge the group by the word of God..

Laura wanted to belong so her desire to belong
become her truth .....

Luke

Lived and experienced?

They are never judges of Truth !!

There is only one way to judge Truth
the BIBLE  !!

Mormons say the same thing I feel a burning or I
experienced?
Yet Luke they are Wrong !!

I can not speak of Laura's heart, nor do i desire to nor did I.

My post was to put forth an example of someone who is at peace in this gathering, and who is firmly believing that God is working.  I am praying with all my heart that He will make me a vessel onto honor, one that is willing to be used by Him in any way he sees fit.  Who are you to judge another's reality to be false? ESPECIALLY when they have peace with God?

Dan (unidentified guest),

I understand your well-intentioned thoughts but you definitely should spend a few nights catching up on five months worth of posts before you presume to know a brother.

Luke has answered accusations similar to yours (from me included) several times already. And answered well.

Do your homework. Nuff said.

S

jesus freak first of all the Bible calls us to judge ...
I did not say laura wasn't saved did I ...
judge the outward but not the heart ,for the heart
only God can see.....

jesus freak how do you decided between a lie or the truth???

Feelings or the Bible ?

It's the world who has turned it around ...

In Laura 's case I point that feeling are never
a base of Truth .
 And as I said saying I have peace God sent me here ..
Is like The Mormons who say I have Peace inside that
being Mormon is True ...

Is their Peace real????????  It's a Cult too !!!

Dan-

For the record, I don't encourage people to blindly jump into things based on their 'feelings'. This is not what I did, nor what I would want anyone else to do.

I think you are assuming a lot from my first posting. It was meant to be brief and I didn't feel all the details were necessary. I can understand how it souds like I just introduced myself and then became a full-fledged member, but this was not the case. Yes, I was prompted by my feelings to dive deeper into this group and from there I researched it extensively and pray about for a long time- and continue to do so.

So, Dan, I didn't act on feelings alone but than again when is there ever an occasion when feelings aren't involved. I did my homework, but more importantly, trusted the Lord. And that's why I can say He brought me here.

-Laura

Dan,

Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that ye be not judged."

Show me a verse where we are called to judge and then let's compare them.

Are we familiar with Matthew 7:1 where Jesus says, "Judge not, that you be not judged."  Jesus also says in John 7:24, "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."

Explain where you are coming from?


I cannot, but I can pray about it for leading.  My faith resides on a knowing that my God will guide and protect me.


When you get saved, you do so because "felt" christ.  You sense His love for you, and his eternal caring and peace for you.


All I can speak of is my testimony in how the Lord has led me and worked in my life.  Take it however you want, I *know* my God and Savior.

Right  on Phil! We need to be careful with judging others. Judging by the "natural man" can be a dangerous thing. However, we still do need to exercise spiritual discernment, and Matthew 7:1 is not an excuse for not exercising spiritual discernment (don't worry - I know that this is not what you are saying).  I am just adding to what you said, and not disagreeing or contradicting with you in the slightest.

Hebrews 5:14
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Luke S:       (sorry, one day I'll be fully awake - I'm just not sure when)

Ooh, wait.  See, if you snag scripture out of context, you can make any point you want.  However, if you place both of those two verses back into their original context, you'd have your own answer.

You are making Jesus look like He spoke out of both sides of His mouth by quoting these two verses without context!  Each speak of different things.  One explains censorious, hypocritical, self-righteous, and other unfair types of judgments, and says it is forbidden.

The other says that it is necessary to discern "dogs" and "swine" from one's own brethren.  We are called to a righteous judgment.  That is the only way to fulfill the commandments that follow Matthew 7:1 et al.

God guides you.  You see, there is such a thing as free will, and we use that as well.  When we choose freely to sin, God will keep whispering our name, but will not (generally) shout or send Archangels to stand in our path for "protection."  God is not at your beck and call on whim to fix it when you break it.  You'll reap what you sow.  You are not called to walk blindly wherever you want.  Don't forget that path is ooooooooooh so narrow.

Um, no.  When you are saved, it is because you have made the freewill decision to turn your life over to Jesus Christ as both your Lord and your Savior.  It is a conscious decision, not a warm fuzzy feeling.  Those who are led by warm fuzzy feelings are those who blow in the wind...  When the warm, fuzzy feeling goes away during times of trial, they are the first to curse God and demand retribution and find their faith failing them.

You see, I have firsthand experience with this.  And I've seen it over and over again, not just with me, but with many new believers who "feel" God with them.  There will be tests and trials where God isn't "with them"  (i.e. it's no longer warm and fuzzy).  Check out Job.

Phil:  you have your verse:  Matthew 7:6.

Michelle, this is my post you are commenting upon, not Dan's.


The whole point of picking out those 2 verses was to show that there exists occasion for Man to judge (as you put it "in discerning dogs and swine") but more so to note that mr. dan's manner in approaching problems he saw in L's post would fall under the first and not the latter.  Simply showing both sides of the coin, in an attempt to understand where he is coming from.



even more so the reason to dedicate one's life to God's Will, no?  I have the free will to sin, but also to follow God's leading.  I am not saying that *everything* I do is automatically from God just because I seek him, far from it.  I am saying that I find putting full faith, trust, and love in a God that will keep me, is my best way to live.  


I see the difference between spiritual "feeling" and carnal "feeling" needs to be pointed out.  I apologize for not communicating the distinction I hold in my mind into my message.  I classify spiritual "feeling" as triggered, for example, during that time when you first decide to accept Jesus as your Savior.  I see something spiritually *felt* during that occasion, and i can not express otherwise.  You are absolutely correct that simple fuzzyness will profit nothing.

Can someone explain how the pearls and swine of Matthew 7:6 relate to judging our brothers and sisters?

Who exactly do we think we are?  Who are we to judge motives, feelings, or the hand of God itself??????  By doing this, we are putting ourselves in the place of God!!!  This is extremely shaky ground to be on...I feel pity for us as you we say this about Laura...She is responsible to God HERSELF...not any UFG (Unidentified Floundering Guest)

BrentTr0ckmanFan

Paul, this is exactly the thinking that keeps Assembly members in the dark.

I found a great commentary on this passage online (Christian Living site, I think).  Here are some excerpts:

There is one passage of scripture that is known by every reprobate and enemy of Christianity. They may know nothing else of the Bible, but be assured they know this one: "Judge not, that ye be not judged" (Matt. 7:1). It is used as a weapon by the worldly, the lukewarm, trouble-makers, unbelievers, and false teachers in an attempt to disarm faithful children of God. We are told that condemning sin is judging. Reproving, rebuking, and exhorting is judging. Preaching and practicing the Bible doctrine of separation from the world is judging. Refusal to bid Godspeed to false teachers is judging. Attempts to obey Bible teaching on church discipline is branded as the most shameful judgment of all. What does the Bible teach about judging?

The primary meanings of the words commonly translated judge, krino, anakrino, and diakrino are respectively "separate, select, choose; examine, investigate, question; separate throughout, discriminate, discern." Sometimes judge denotes "sinful action," but sometimes it means "permitted or even required action." As always, the context will enable us to determine how the word is being used.

In the first few verses of Matthew 7, it is clear that the Lord is not condemning all judging, rather a particular kind of judging. Verses 3-5 show the Lord is condemning hypocritical or Self-righteous judging.

(quotes Mt 7:3-5)

What right do we have to condemn another when we are guilty of the same sin, perhaps to a greater degree? Paul makes it clear what our attitude should be in attempting to restore another: "Brethren, even if a man be overtaken in any trespass, ye who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; looking to thyself, lest thou also be tempted" (Gal. 6:1). Self-righteous and hypocritical judging is also condemned in Romans 2:1-3, 17-23.

The context of Matthew 7:1-5 proves that corning to a negative conclusion about someone is not necessarily unrighteous judging. In verse six Jesus warns against casting pearls before swine and giving that which is holy to the dogs. Since it is obvious he is talking about two-legged swine and dogs, it is necessary for us to come to a conclusion about who are swinish and who are doggish. This constitutes a necessary and righteous judgment. We are also forbidden to judge things we cannot know such as the motives and secret thoughts of others. "Wherefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and make manifest the counsels of the hearts; and then shall each man have his praise from God" (I Cor. 4:5). No one has the right to draw conclusions without sufficient evidence. To do so is to violate what Paul commanded. But he did not forbid all manner of judging. In the next chapter Paul says that he had judged the fornicator in the church at Corinth and commanded the Corinthians to do the same. Paul was saying in I Corinthians what Christ said in John 7:24: "Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

[snip]
These, then, are the kinds of judging that are condemned in the Bible:

Hypocritical or self-righteous judging
Judging without sufficient evidence
Making a law where God made none
Pronouncing eternal condemnation on another

As was pointed out above, some of the meanings of the words translated judge are "select, choose, examine, and discern." Judging is examining evidence and drawing conclusions or making choices. It is possible to do this in unfair or ungodly ways. Such judging is wrong. However, certain kinds of judging are commanded. "Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment" (John 7:24). Since righteous judgment is judging according to reality, we have no right to prejudge, but we do have the right and obligation to draw conclusions about people or doctrine that are warranted by the evidence. If it is always wrong to draw conclusions about people, how could we obey the following commands?

(quotes commands in Mt 7)

In the same context Christ said:

By their fruits ye shall know them (Matt. 7:20).
Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the concision (Phil. 3:2).
Them that sin reprove in the sight of all, that the rest also may be in fear (I Tim. 5:20).
For which cause reprove them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith (Titus 1:13).
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God (I John 4:1).

We are commanded to preach the gospel, to contend for the faith, and to reprove, rebuke, and exhort (Mark 16:15-16; Jude 3; 2 Tim. 4:2). To obey these commands in an uncompromising, but kind way is not to be guilty of unrighteous judging. To teach truths from the Bible that imply that some will be lost is not ungodly judging. It is not sinful to arrive at conclusions based on what the Bible teaches and to hold fast to those conclusions. The Bible says, "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" (I Thess. 5:21). Hold the pattern of sound words which thou hast heard from me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 1: 13).

We are commanded to judge those church members who are ungodly and will not repent. Such judging is not only not sin but is positively required of us. Paul said lie had already judged the fornicator in the Corinthian church and urged the church at Corinth to do the same (I Cor. 5:3-5). The word judge as used by Paul here means "not only to reach a conclusion, but to act upon that conclusion" by withdrawing from an ungodly brother. "For what have I to do with judging them that are without? Do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Put away the wicked men from among yourselves" (I Cor. 5:12-13).

Let us be careful that we are not guilty of prejudging, self-righteous judging, or hypocritical judging, but do not let false teachers and ungodly brethren intimidate us from boldly preaching the gospel and steadfastly standing for the truth. Let us "judge righteous judgment."

Sorry this was so long, but I thought it was wholly worthwhile right now.  My posts are getting longer and longer - my apologies.  I'll shorten them down considerably in the future.

Essentially, this is not "gossip". There are court records, etc.
Also, just because there are people (who are risking allot by
coming out into the open) telling their stories, doesn't mean
they are lying. I have more reason to believe a victim that
the ones that have without a doubt been playing politics. I
think it is agreed that those that get ahead in politics are not
on the level, eh ?

And as a side note - the accused have access and/or information
as to the goings on here. We are not doing anything in a corner,
it is all in the "open". They can and should defend themselves
before this "cyber" church as it were.

Michelle,
I must have ADD or something because I just can't finish your entire post...too long...were you knocking what I was saying or what I was responding to???

BrentTr0ckmanFan

Paul, I was responding to your last post with the first line of mine.

I was also quoting a commentary for Phil and anyone else interested about Mt 7 and the dogs and swine comment.  We ARE called to "judge" our brethren, with righteous judgment.

The commentary was rather good, I thought (esp. since I didn't write it) so you may want to take some Ritalin and try again!   ;)

In February and March the brothers had a series of 'General Brother's Meetings(GBM)' on Sunday afternoons, instead of the Sunday afternoon meetings.  The result of those meeting was that the brothers decided to reduce the 'assembly meetings' load on the saints.  Along with other decisions, they also decided to have GBMs once a month in order to re-evaluate GG's teachings to see where his teachings had veered away from the truth.

To date this has not happened because there is always some issue or another to discuss. Also the brothers are so busy with regular assembly busyness (preparing ministry, going to meetings, preaching the gospel, etc. etc. etc.) that they have not had the time to even study and consider where GG's teachings have digressed from the truth.  On some of those teachings like 'rewards' they are convinced that GG was on the button, and the brothers are not even considering re-evaluating that teaching.

So where is the change that realy matters. Me-thinks that they are pendulum swinging, rather than following the leading of the Bible and the Spirit.


Marcia