AssemblyBoard

What are the major taboos in being an AK? In other words, what made the leaders reject/shun/exhort you the most. any stories?
                     Nate

My major one would be friendship between  men and women.

Going to dances, going out with friends to places, skipping meetings to do homework, and never listening to anything but the soft christian music that all the other AK's listened to.

Lets make this a Mathews family chat room eh. I dont know if these things are necesarilly taboo with the exception of the dance thing. These are mainly just a result of protective parents who somtimes would walk the line of being over protective. Love ya mom and dad.

missing meetings for ANY reason

not doing chapter summeries

having contradictional opinions

eating fast food (im serious!)

dressing in any sort of fashion besides preppish (anything other then a skirt, khakis or nice jeans, and any shirt with writing on it)

not wearing sunday garb, ie: a tie for guys or a skirt/dress for girls

sarcasm in any form

biting nails (i got chewed out for this once in california)

any form of independent thought tended to be shot down, especially if your a girl

friendship between men and women definately was one

going to dances meant you had fallen away  ::)

painting nails

having ears pierced

story:

Over the summer, on teen team, I was in a house with Hannah Dodorico and Amber Deijay (sorry for misspelling). Our counselor was Roxana Brown and it was her first year. We stayed with Liz and Matt Henderson. Anyway, Hannah and I played a practical joke the first week and moved everybody's shoes. Roxana and Amber didn't think it was funny so we promised not to do it again. Shortly later, a pair of Roxana's jeans went missing. She was convinced that Hannah and I did it. So she talked to Liz about it. Liz asked Hannah and I if it was us and we said no, it wasn't, so she said okay. We did a search of the room and found the jeans in a laundry bag. Roxana still thought it was us. The day after Hannah, Amber and I went into the Summer School building and Roxana was behind us. After the meeting, Hannah and I (not Amber) were approached by Cheryl Zach who said that Roxana was crying before the meeting outside by a tree. We had no idea about it. She continued to say that Roxana said we had walked by and ignored her. We never even left the meeting hall to go outside!! Then Cheryl asked us about the jeans and we explained it to her. She seemed to be tilted towards Roxana's side. She even brought up kicking us off of teen team and sending us home. But she then told us that we should make things right. So we said okay. We tried to talk to Roxana but all she did was nod the whole time. We assumed the whole thing had been cleared up. But then, the other counselors started to interrogate and exhort us (and this was ONLY Hannah and I, mainly Hannah though). Becca Dodorico was on the phone talking to her mom and her counselor, Becky, took over the phone and told her mom that Hannah was wreaking havoc in her house. Sheesh, a pair of jeans go missing and suddenly somebody across half the continent knows about it. Other counselors also approached Hannah, telling her she should be ashamed of herself. A couple people tried to talk to me, but I told them they should take it up with Roxana. Hannah and I were laughing about it towards the end of teen team but it really bothered us. She never admitted she was wrong. Maybe she still thinks we hid them. It's okay though, Hannah and I forgave her when it happened. Amber never got exhorted (lucky one!)

I agree with you Ems.  This is a good list of things that I too have been exhorted about, but many of them have significant reasoning behind.  

"missing meetings for ANY reason"
yeah, it is usually asked where you were, and it is often judged whether your reason was frivolous or not. Some people do it in care, some people joke with you about it, but I do think there is a slight tendency to be quite judgemental about this.

not doing chapter summeries
haha, i have had more than my share of talks about this one :)  But i can see where the reasoning might be found.  If you are going to sit through a 1 1/2 hour meeting, you should be prepared for it.  Now, i still think this is a taboo in that most of the time I honestly did not have to time to get one done, and it was unfair to get talked to about something you could not do :)

having contradictional opinions
i really dont know about this one, i will think about it.

eating fast food (im serious!)
i never got talked to about this.  Maybe just in the sense that a burger, fries, and a coke were unhealthy for you was it ever commented upon, but not usually. In fact, most of the singles in Chicago would run out to grab some lunch at portillos or McDonalds for lunch.

dressing in any sort of fashion besides preppish (anything other then a skirt, khakis or nice jeans, and any shirt with writing on it)
I am not exactly fashion concious, so i really did not notice this one.  Granted, it was frowned upon to look like a bum......

not wearing sunday garb, ie: a tie for guys or a skirt/dress for girls
Ahh! Big one here.

sarcasm in any form
Now, is not sarcasm rude and un-edifying?

biting nails (i got chewed out for this once in california)
Learn to be a lady Ems  ;D   j/k, i have never heard of this one before other than it is gross

any form of independent thought tended to be shot down, especially if your a girl
Another one that i need to think about.

friendship between men and women definately was one
Fo' sho'

going to dances meant you had fallen away  ::)
Actually, not going to dances is a HUGE taboo.  I am still trying to decide where i stand with this one.

painting nails
yeah........no opinion except for taste :)

having ears pierced
i have no stand on this as i am too much of a wimp to look into it anyway.  The whole you are created in Gods image so dont harm it seems rather silly as what do you do about people who are scarred in accidents? Missing limbs?  

I always hoped that I'd get kicked off of the teen team! lol. but that never happened.

In the assemblies one thing that was pretty obvious was all the double standards. Like one of the mothers would always chew out the mothers of everyone else's daughters for their skirts being above their knees when their own children wore the same thing! it was so weird.

Dances-Christians don't go to dances (WHAT?) Talk about reverse oppression!

i KNOW! lol one time, someone elses mom exhorted me for not taking notes! and the message was about the theology of moses or somehting!


additions to my list:


not taking notes

talking during a song/message

chewing gum (you could get away with it most of the time, but GG had a problem with it in summer school for some reason)

being baptized and not praying in meetings

having short hair if you're a girl, having long-ish hair if you're a guy

listening to secular music

doodling

passing notes

falling asleep during a particularly boring message

saying that a message was boring

defending yourself (especially if theyre exhorting you for one of the above already)

oh yeah, doodling, my favorite  ;D
i have notebooks full of it..
Summer school, oh the horrors. I was always afraid GG would call on me  :P

i got a little irritated by this list, here are what i believe to be the right answers as to what the taboos are in the assembly.

"missing meetings for ANY reason"
-yes, that's considered bad

not doing chapter summeries
yeah, that's considered bad too.  or doing the wrong chapter, that's bad too.  or the wrong book....

having contradictional opinions
i had these all the time and it wasn't bad.  

eating fast food (im serious!)
um...false.  unless we're talking about a constant inhaling of fatty foods to the point where small children and most farm animals would be repulsed.

dressing in any sort of fashion besides preppish (anything other then a skirt, khakis or nice jeans, and any shirt with writing on it)

umm....false.
exception: blasphemous shirts = bad

not wearing sunday garb, ie: a tie for guys or a skirt/dress for girls
yes...true

sarcasm in any form
no, sarcasm is fun

biting nails (i got chewed out for this once in california)
not an assembly rule per say......something that parents usually try to teach their kids.

any form of independent thought tended to be shot down, especially if your a girl
ummm...that varies.  if it was reasonable enough, it was considered, but if you would do something like propose that we study the book of mormon, that would be shot down.....even if you're a boy.

friendship between men and women definately was one
friendship is fine.  calling everyday or writing long letters = bad.  in other words, crossing the friendship line is bad.  i believe that i can demonstrate this by adding a little kissy face  :-*

going to dances meant you had fallen away  
true...more kissy faces  :-*

painting nails
false, everyone painted their nails.......maybe if we said that guys couldn't paint their nails....

having ears pierced
i know many with ears pierced, although there are verses that mention something about that.

not taking notes
true.  playing games on laptops while pretending to take notes is bad too.

talking during a song/message
that's true, however that is just rude in general to talk while someone else is talking.  if you say this is only assembly rule then you haven't been to a public school.

chewing gum (you could get away with it most of the time, but GG had a problem with it in summer school for some reason)
that's true, but many places don't want gum chewing because of what happens when it's done being chewed....i.e. bottom of chairs, on floor, in hair, accidently stuck on forehead

being baptized and not praying in meetings
true, to an extent.  if you never prayed, you would be approached

having short hair if you're a girl, having long-ish hair if you're a guy
true......depends on how long or how short

listening to secular music
false.......actually, depends on the family and type of music

doodling
true

passing notes
again, see my comparison to public schools

falling asleep during a particularly boring message
that's rude in general..........although quite relaxing

saying that a message was boring
that's rude in general.  there are better ways to say that you think a guy has the speaking abilities of a rock.

defending yourself (especially if theyre exhorting you for one of the above already)
false, there was room for defense, provided you didn't get all insulted and mad and stomp away
i will demonstrate my point by putting this little angry face here  >:(

by the way, is it possible to add an expressionless face on here?

bonafide...
do I know you?

sounds like a steve hansen to me.  

i thought that at first too.

but, i think it might have been one to the daugthers of Gene.

(not that i have any reason at all to be sure this person is in chicago, but w/e :))

When it comes to judging whether these lists are true or false, I might point out that the standards varied from Assembly to Assembly, and from person to person.  I have no doubt that Emily's list is valid from her perspective. Bottom line:  No matter whether scriptural or not, if someone was "offended" or "stumbled" by what you did, you were fair game.  Example:  I went to Cornerstone Academy, and when I was in about fifth or sixth grade, they started teaching square dancing in PE.  They had to stop teaching it because the Midwest assemblies were offended.  My parents let me go to prom my junior year of high school and someone said it was like I had stuck a dagger in his daughters' hearts and twisted. Yikes!  

Oh, a couple more taboos:  

1.  No best friend.   We got quite a lecture on this from Rod Zach during Bible class in eighth grade.

2.  Dating is sin.  Dan Notti preached this in ministry.  When my mom told Keith Walker she didn't agree, he said he didn't either and neither did others of the leadership.  But there was never a retraction, and this teaching spread.

3.  No "immodest" clothing.  This standard differed from place to place.  Bathing suits were an especially complex issue.

It was pretty easy to get out of this one though. Just say that you forgot it at home.

I wanted to get a tattoo that covered my entire back and containted a heart that said "MOM" in the middle...this intention of showing love for my MOTHER was REJECTED...I WAS NOT ALLOWED TO LOVE MY MOM!!!! :'( :'( :'(
What was I to tell my children???  Um, you're not to love your mother...and that's final!!!  I was torn apart at the seams of my fragile heart and left on the ground in anguish to rot away in my pitiful state...But I overcame, and I now can love my mother in liberty...SUPER!!!!

(I am being fasicous(sp?)...for those who wasted the last 10 seconds reading that stupid post)

BrentTr0ckmanFan

(alright, alright...so I don't have enough to do...)  

Good thread.  I remember that being involved in a non-sport, non-choir type after school activity was particularly frowned upon.  In the midwest playing sports wasn't that big of a deal, but watch out if you were in theatre, martial arts or  :o the big no-no, Jazz Choir!  Yowsers!  

Hey, what about this one: getting a tattoo of a bible verse. i also think that secular music was a no no for the assemblies. i remember the rules during teen teams and such against secular music.

these are hilarious! I remember being forbid to do karate because you had to "worship" other gods. also, I remember trying to explain why i couldnt go trick or treating with my friends-- somehow the explanation that this was an occult holiday never convinced them.
 
                                  nate

Interesting, because most Christians I know, even outside of the assembly, consider trick or treating to be an occult activity, and do not let their children have anything to do with it.

What is different, is that many churches around host alternative activities on Oct 31, so that parents can have something to take their kids to (rather than just forbidding something).

Really?  :D That I did not know. I was under the impression that we were about the only ones aside from Southern baptists who didn't. at any rate... there are a number of Christian and other everyday practices that have their roots in paganism. Early Christianity influenced and was heavily influenced by North Africa (St Augustine was African) and drumming, which comes from Africa, was (and is) used to call up the spirits of ancestors. It seems like there are any number of things that we could eliminate in our life because they have "pagan" roots. the word "Amen" has been shown to have linguistic roots with the Egyptian god Amun-Ra...anyway, what do other people think? Should Christians celebrate Halloween? should we celebrate any holiday? I could tell you some pretty awful stories of the origins of Thanksgiving if you'd like to hear them.
          peace and blessings,
 
                                                Nate

Hi My name is David Mauldin I am 42 years old!  I was in the assembly since I was 18 until 34. While in fellowship I was so busy I didn't have time to develope any talents.  I now enjoy dancing.  I am sorry if this is a stumbling block to some people but for me it has done wonders.  I love to move around and have fun with other people.  During square dancing I laugh with my friends because we mess up all the time.  I also am into drawing/painting.  I am not ashamed of my work!  In fact I am very proud of it! I also question everything now. Is something like dancing really wrong?  Why? where does it say in the Bible?  Many rules that our parents/leaders place on us are grounded in their own insecurities.  I can't help but notice the great emphasis that immigrants have put on religion in America?  I think this has a lot to do with the anxiety parents feel when they see the indipendent spirit so activly displayed by American youth.  wouldn't just developing a good healthy relationship with your children be much better? What a shame to deny children these facets of exploration and developement!  Oh yes I love to sing also yet not just the hymns  Las t year I got to sing Memorie from Cats!  In church!!! Oh my  :o

You really hit the nail on the head there, David. The feeling that people had no chances to develop their God-given talents in the assembly (except for singing, i suppose) was a major issue for me. When our family left the assembly I was told by a peer from the assembly that everyone should quit their jobs and be like George. Why did God give us talents if he wanted us to wander the streets homeless and destitute as we preached the word? Or should there be those designated to the earn the money and those who spend it as George did? He definately wasn't living in a cardboard box.

As the mother of AK's I remember being discouraged in letting my sons join Boy scouts, although I can't remember why.  I was also questioned about my involvement in Moms-in-Touch, a prayer group with other Christian moms  who had kids in public schools. Although both of these "taboos" went by the way side in the past several years when other saints' children were old enough to be involved in such things. Funny.
When I taught piano many years ago. I had several students from a Christian family who were not in the assembly. They were not allowed to read the Narnia series by C. S. Lewis because there was a witch in it. I remember that the little girl, about age 11, really wanted to read them and asked me about them when she saw them on my bookshelf. I felt bad that I couldn't let her, but did not want to go against the wishes of her parents. I hope she got a chance to read them when she grew up.
Anyway, the assembly did not have a monopoly on strange ideas or restrictive attitudes, although it tried real hard. :(
Don't even get me started on fantasy books for children...and assembly views.
a librarian and mother of AK's

Well, there was this one time when I wanted to get the big toe on my right foot pierced, my belly-button pierced, my nose pierced, both eye-balls pierced, and a chain that would connect all of them.  But alas, I was turned down.

And then there was the time I wanted to dye my hair blue, then shave my head, and glue all the clippings to my shoulders.  But, alas, I started stumbling people at the swim fellowships.  

OH!! And then, I wanted to move to Ghana and build a hut completely out of post-it notes and live as a hermit for the rest of my days, but alas, no again.

I could go on for hours.

OH YEAH!  And remember the time I wanted to become a CIA agent and also a Ninja, but since I would be trained as a professional assassin, alas, I was turned down.

And then, I was into a phase where I was dating famous people, and I wanted to go line-dancing with Cher, but Cher turned me down, and alas, it just wasn't right.  Her being about thirty or forty years my senior. (How old is she anyways?)

Oh and last but not least, the time I wanted to make an ant farm out of the head-covering box was, alas, turned down.  Sisters started complaining.

These were some of my simple pleasures in life and them being dashed against the rocks.   :'(  

I know that some of you can relate so these things that I have suffered.  

I have many more, and will promise to let you know if I can remember any others.

Luke Robinson

   

 

I bet you played with toy guns as a child, too. Didn't you, Luke?  Water guns? huh?

If Luke is under GA.com discipline why is he allowed to post???  I cannot go along with this...he needs to repent and come clean before he should be allowed to post...

BrentTr0ckmanFan

(this website is definitely giving me upper-cervical pain...can anyone help????)

Paul,

You need to repent for being a bad colonel.  You're more like a whipping boy at GA.com. ;D

And maybe you need to find another site to post, such as www.first-class-hoosier.com.  Haven't checked if it is a web site, but if it was, you should be a colonel there, too.  ;D

Brother Superior,

Luke

Luke, i definately feel your pain.  i have many experiences like yours, but i'd have to say that the most notable one was..........i'm sorry...this is painful, but i was discussing my plan for complete world domination with the leaders, and they said i needed to find at least 7 verses(in the original greek) and 3 songs to back up my actions.  well, i don't speak greek, so my aspirations were dashed into little tiny pieces.

Pat I would love to go on about the error of censorship, even in the school district. I am a fourth grade teacher.  It is a mistake to take God/the supernatural out of education!  Children have an inate capacity to believe .  To just teach dry facts is a total turn off!  Yet involving stories/legends/myths/fantasy seems to have a wonderous effecton my students.  Its as if they beginn to use their whole brain all of a sudden.  Their capacity to speculate, to predict to imagine ect... I met a woman from a Calvery Chapel who didn't let her children read The Littel Mermaid etc... "Ther e aren't any such things as mermaids!" she said.  We are decieving our children.  Yet the bible is filled with the supernatural!  Even witches!  (O.K. No good witches just bad ones!)

bonafide:

everything i listed is how i feel things are, at least here. if you disagree, there's no need to be rude; i'm open to discussions if you ever want to contact me.
love in Christ,
Emily

I would like to resurrect this thread and ask the question what Taboos for our AKs have you reevaluated now that you have left the assembly?

I, for one, have allowed my 17 year old daughter to begin dating.  She has a boyfriend and has a high standard for her interaction with him.

I believe the dating process is to be used to discover how to relate to the opposite sex in many more ways than simply physical.  It encompasses communication, vulnerability, what you are willing to allow in a relationship, the values you want in a relationship, etc.  

To believe that a young person without this experience could get married and  be successful in a marriage without this kind of interaction is naive at best and foolish at worst.
 
My daughter and I have had wonderful discussions regarding her relationship, where she is able to dialogue and discover what it is she wants in a relationship and how to communicate with the opposite sex (much different than communicating with your same sex friends!)  I am so glad that we have some years left to interact with my daughter in this parental way before she leaves the home and has to discover this process all on her own, as many of her former AK friends have had to do.

Any input or contributions?

Kimberly,

My son has read all of the Harry Potter novels (started when he was 7). To date he has not attempted to cast any spells, sacrifice a goat or had his head spin around in circles!

He would like to play Quiditch, though but I can't say much because so would I!

Scott

I suspect many people would like to.  If someone could just figure out how to make the brooms :)

Maybe you could team up with Stephen and Lucas and come up with something? ;)

S

My vote would be on figuring out a way to utilize the Earth's magnetic field for propulsion  ;)

If you do it properly, you should be able to obtain just under the speed of light - now wouldn't that make for an interesting game!  :o

--
lucas

Whoa! Easy there, Ender.  ;)

I think you'd need to expand the playing field a bit. And it might be kind of hard to feel the rush of the wind in your hair at just under light speed. :o

S

My experience may have been different due to the particular Assembly I was in, but I felt that those of us who joined as college students were treated much more strictly than those whose parents were Assembly members. AK's had the excuse that "that was what their parents wanted." Similarly, a married woman had that excuse that "that was what her husband wanted." Those of us who had neither parents nor husbands to appeal to just had to do as we were directed.  ???

Take care  :D
Heather

Heather,

I think that also depended on who your parents were.  My parents were as strict or more so on us.  It is true that you could just say "My parents want", but I guarantee your parents heard about it and were pressured to get you to conform to whatever was the standard.  It just depended on how hard your parents were going to allow it to be on you.  

Rachel

Yes, that sounds right. There was one father in particular in Spokane who was especially merciful to his family and brave about resisting pressure. Yeah, for him! ;) Though I must admit I thought less of him at the time.  :'( Thank God my thinking isn't trapped in that little box of do's and don't's anymore!  :) :) :)

Peace,  8)
Heather

I'm pretty sure my parents were as strict or more strict than what the average campus recruit experienced. I think the difference was that it was easier to swallow coming from my folks.

I often got into trouble for rebelling against the directives of some dork eeper or sour faced sister looking for anyone lower on the totem pole than they were.

My defense was to be as surly and insolent as possible. Of course that just got back to the parents who tried to correct me, but taking punishment from my dad was easier than taking crap from some ambitious, mewling sycophant who daydreamed about being a leading brother some day.

Campus recruit or AK. It didn't matter. Just misery of a different sort! ;)

S

Scott - You are oh so right!  When my oldest daughter went on the teen team for the last year, she had a sister for a counselor who had just gotten out of Tim and Ginger's "Training Home". :P

You guessed it........she "counseled" the way she was "trained" at Tim and Ginger's.  The girls in her home hated her and the only reason I didn't have to go down to Fullerton myself and intervene was because she was in a home with a mom who had half a brain.  The mom stepped in for the girls time and time again with this counselor (reminding the counselor that this was not a "training home"), but it was not a pleasant experience for my teen.

Heather - I agree with Rachel and Scott as well.  As a mom, I would get "entreated" weekly regarding any one (or all ;)) of my childrens behavior.  The difficult part was that, in order to be in the good graces of the leadership and in the eyes of most of the other assembly members, you had to take your children to task for whatever offense was brought to your attention.  

It really depended on how independent you were as a parent (and if you were "independent" you were in the "dog house".)  If you wanted to be in everyone's good graces you let your children "have it"!  :P

What do you have to do as a parent to respond in this way?  Turn your brain off!  I can't tell you the amount of times that I handed out discipline to my children when I didn't agree with it.  And why you ask?  Because we were BRAINWASHED into believing that to go against counsel was SIN!  It was tantemount to open rebellion against God.  Remember the inculcated teaching of, "it is commendable to God for you to be wronged even if you were right" (1Peter or 2Peter - I don't have my bible handy right here  ;))???  This led to children being disciplined so often, even when their parents didn't believe that the children should be disciplined.  SICK!!!!!!!  My oldest daughter was so used to having people talk to us and then she would be called into our room to have a "discussion".  It got to the point that, after we left the assembly, when we would call our daughter into our bedroom just to talk, she would respond, "what did I do?"  It has been a year now, and thank God, she is beginning to realize that we enjoy just talking with her and she hasn't "done something wrong" that needs to be discussed.

David,

I'm 41 years old, was in assembly from around 1970 to around 1983, so I was 7 or 8 'til around 21. Thats my background.

I know that you posted the above quote almost a year ago, but I must comment. Let me say something about the concept of "stumbling" to everyone, because it really needs to be heard.

Yes, it is wrong to make people stumble--you know almost fall down in their faith, fall away, etc. If I have an affair, yes that will stumble some people, especially my wife and 4 sons. Pretty easy to imagine.

But there is a HUGE difference between making someone stumble and doing something someone else doesn't like or doesn't agree with. We all should know that.

Some folks might not like that you enjoy dancing. But, a stumbling block it is not.

Bob.

Kimberley,

Maybe the San Fernando Valley water causes "independence".

When I was the Great Potato of the SFV my attitude was "this is my family and my home".   I never set up the consequence system in my home, and we ate what we wished to eat.

The idea was around that children should remain silent at meals.  Betty promoted this.  I told them that this was wrong...children should be acknowledged as members of the family and invited to participate in the mealtime conversations, as long as they aren't disruptive.

When Great Potato number 3 lived with me, he tried to implement the Geftafkys standards in my home.  I set him straight and told him to mind his own business.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

Tom and all,
Speaking of Great Potatoes, I've been thinking on and off during this past year how we learned to see things through "assembly eyes".  Like when Mrs. Potato in Toy Story told Mr. Potato to pack his "angry eyes".  Part of starting over for us has been to say, wait, how should we look at this without assembly eyes on?  For instance; baptism.  A young person wants to be baptized.  In the assembly that meant certain things.  But the Bible doesn't say, get baptized right before your first teen team.  It doesn't say don't pray aloud in a group before you're baptized.  It doesn't say wear headcoverings now, if you are a young lady being baptized. It doesn't say now that you're baptized you can take part in the Lord's supper. I don't bring this up to discuss baptism, but as a recent example of our need to look at things without "assembly eyes" on.
I'm glad for your family and former assembly's sake, Tom, that you were a more independent sort of Great Potato.
Just small fries,
Becky

I have a relatively very minor question for AK's.  Was Valentine's Day taboo?  Let's say you had a class party at your elem. school.  Would you have been participating?  I ask because in my experience the West Coast Influence seemed to really frown upon anything Valentine's Day.  Midwesterners I knew looked at it differently, and had fun with it.
I know it matters little, but I'd still like to know.
BW

I can't speak for Fullerton, but in the SF Valley we didn't have a problem with Valentine's - with a caveat.  We would purchase valentine's at the local christian book store and it certainly wasn't endorsed for the teens to participate with anything re: the opposite sex (the intended purpose of Valentine's Day.)  But for the harmless elementary school party - we participated.  At least I didn't get entreated for it.....who knows, I did tend to be on the rebellious side. ;)

We were always allowed to take the innocuous little cards for the class exchange when I was in elementary school.

Of course, there was no such thing as "innocuous" from junior high on. No Valentines, no dances, etc.

The dancing was a big thing. I had the impression from adults in the Assembly that if I were to attend a junior high dance, I would be overcome with lust and there would be a giant orgy of seventh graders on the cafeteria floor as all the chaperones (who were, of course, not Assemblyites) snickered on their way out to go sacrifice a goat or something. ;)

Ah, good times. Good times.

S

Becky,

Personally, I have always had real reservations about baptizing youngsters before their teen years.

The reason is that it is in the teen years that young people can really understand that one must "count the cost" to be a disciple of Christ.

After all, you could get small children to pray to receive the Spirit of Barney if you were to try.  They believe what their parents tell them.

(Then come the teenage years where they only believe what the wise 15 year-old sages tell them)    :o

Having said this, I know some good Christians who received Christ at an early age and were baptized at 5 or 6 and have continued in that path all their lives.

However, I think the number of young people who "receive Christ" and are baptized at an early age, only to leave the Lord as young adults far exceeds the first group.

The practice of only allowing baptized believers to share in the Lord's Supper goes back to the first century.  It is a primitive Christian tradition.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

Becky,

Having raised 4 AK's I had to make some decisions about these things.

I just let them go with the flow, except for the trick or treat thing.

However, they got a bang out of handing out candy to the T or T kids.

One of my daughters wished to go to the prom, and I didn't let her. Not because they were dancing, but because the guy who asked her wasn't a Christian.  I still don't beleive in dating non-Christians.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

In SLO, several families, LB's all of them,  didn't participte in Valentine's,  St. Patrick's, or any other day.

They would take the kids out of class during these times.  One of the teachers, who knew we were,  "part of the group," asked us a few questions about our beliefs----we let our kids be in the class but downplayed everything---at which time she told us that one of the LB wives told her that,  "They used to kill Christians on St. Patrick's day, that's why we don't celebrate it."   :o :o

So, I guess all of this was somewhat regional, whereas Christmas, Easter, New Years were ministry principles.  Perhaps the reason for this is because George had seminars on two of these holidays?

Brent

In SLO, several families, LB's all of them,  didn't participte in Valentine's,  St. Patrick's, or any other day.

They would take the kids out of class during these times.  One of the teachers, who knew we were,  "part of the group," asked us a few questions about our beliefs----we let our kids be in the class but downplayed everything---at which time she told us that one of the LB wives told her that,  "They used to kill Christians on St. Patrick's day, that's why we don't celebrate it."   :o :o

So, I guess all of this was somewhat regional, whereas Christmas, Easter, New Years were ministry principles.  Perhaps the reason for this is because George had seminars on two of these holidays?

Brent

I am firmly convinced that the hierarchy of the assembly wanted to make life as difficult as possible for AK's.  They wanted AK's to stick out like a sore thumb in all normal settings.  Between all the meetings that took away from a lot of AK's being able to participate on a sports team or other extra cirricular activities and the assemblies ridiculously stupid stance on all of the holidays, it was hard for a lot of AK's to fit in and carry on like normal youngsters or teenagers.  To 99% of people out there, the assembly policies on Holidays was just plain weird.

I don't believe for one second that God would look down and frown upon parents who allowed their child to participate in school christmas, halloween, or valentines activities.

I do belive that God does look down upon assembly leaders who commit adultery, swindle money or allow physical abuse to take place.  Perhaps thats where guys like George or Tim Geftakys  should have concentrated their efforts.

Brent wrote:
"beliefs----we let our kids be in the class but downplayed everything---at which time she told us that one of the LB wives told her that,  "They used to

Brent, don't you know that the above is true?  That is if you are a Christian who is run over by a green beer drinking Irishman named Kowalski. <g>

  We always thought that the views on Holidays were weird.   Even a "Happy Mother's Day" greeting seemed to be absent.   My wife thought that was odd.   Maybe if Hallmark had sent a few bucks towards the *ministry*?

Blessings, Tony Edwards
p.s.  hope this is readable as the reply form isn't working well with my speech system again! <sigh>
kill Christians on St. Patrick's day, that's why we don't celebrate it."

The bottom line is that the Assembly taught, whether blatantly or subtly, that anything not a part of the Assembly was a part of the Satanic world order.

Holidays could not be celebrated because they may have had some pagan adherents in centuries past.

Comic books could not be read because the heroes' powers were derived from demonic influences.

Secular music was denied because the beat led to demonic possession.

Sports were denied because they glorified man and either set man up as an idol or as an institution became an idol.

Extra-curricular activities were denied because they took time away from proper Assembly functions and allowed too much fellowship with unsaved people.

Friendships were denied because other children might contaminate an AK with worldy views or tempt them to carnal activities.

Fellowship with other Christians was denied because other Christians were (take your pick) playing games/apostate/without the true vision/worldly/carnal.

Relationships with family members not in the Assembly were denied because they were either not saved and a bad influence and saved but not "walking with the Lord".

Dancing was denied because it led to temptation and an overpowering lust.

Basically, an AK with fully involved parents (especially LBs and worker families) could expect to wake up to a quiet time, morning stewardships, go to school, come home, do homework, prepare a chapter summary, perform stewardships, eat dinner properly and in relative silence, recite memory verse or share a thought from a devotion, attend pre-prayer, set up chairs, perform and behave properly during the meeting, take down chairs, go home, sleep, do it again (the only variation being the type of meeting to attend: prayer, stated, tape, witnessing, etc).

Bascially an AK was required to be an Assembly adult. Any attempt to enjoy childhood/be a child was forcefully quashed.

AKs were not taught to make choices (good or bad) on their own. They were not taught to relate to anyone not in the Assembly. They were taught that the Assembly was more important than their families. They were taught that they needed to be prepared to survive a horrible period of persecution before the return of Christ in the year ________ (depending on George's latest revelation). They were not in any way prepared to be autonomously functioning adults in the real world.

AKs were taught they will never do anything to God's standards. AKs were taught that God is harsh and demanding and there is no joy in a relationship with him until his return - and then only if you have lived a life of hardship and denial - and then only if you enjoy sitting in meetings because that is the same type of activity we will be performing in eternity.

These things AKs learned on our own: Our parents preached joy and were miserable. They preached freedom and were slaves. They preached Christ first and worshipped the Assembly. They preached love and looked down their noses at their fellow man. They preached humility, piety, sexual purity and truth and bound themselves to an arrogant, lying adulterer.

And then we bolted. Wonder why?

S

While I'm not an AK, I can't help but chime in.  I remember GG saying many times that the extent to which we enjoy God today will be the extent to which we will enjoy eternity.  

Let's see, heaven or hell.........hmmmmmmmmmm....... ::) ;D

Jack

I remember GG exhorting us one afternoon. He said he had heard people complaining about the number of meetings and length of the meetings (I'm sure he did not hear this, he set it up himself).

He said if we don't enjoy it now what are we going to do in heaven?

"What do you think we're going to be doing in heaven, dear ones? This! This is what we'll be doing for all eternity!"

It was one of the most depressing moments of my life. :P

S

Wow Scott!  That is quite a summary.

Why all the 'guidelines'?  Why all the fear that one would 'fall away from the Lord'?  Why all the controls?  Did you ever get the feeling that when an assembly event was announced it was a 'sales pitch' for the event. I.e. better attend or else...   I resisted some of those and was 'frowned upon', and succumbed to others that I now wish I hadn't.

However the end result is that the assembly produced 'immature' Christians because assemblyites were so dependant on the LBs/workers rather than on the Lord.  Those who remain assembly sympathetic have a difficult time adjusting to life without the bounds of the assembly.

BUT I am glad to be free.
Lord bless,
Marcia

Hi folks,

Having read the last several posts, especially Scott's, I see that when I was the Great Potato out in the Valley we must have had "Assembly Lite".

When we all get together we sometimes laugh and re-tell the funny times we had when we had brothers and sisters living with us.  My daughters are, (I think), 35, 33, and 30 now.  Our son is a toddler of 24.  We left the One True Church when he was 10, so he doesn't have the bitter memories many do.

We remember fun times of fellowship around the dining room table, telling joke after joke.  Some of them weren't all that good, but when you are already laughing...

Nights when several couples and some of the brothers played board games in the dining room...

The night the brothers carried Chris Small's bed out in the back yard while he was asleep...

The time we bought jalapeno black eyed peas by mistake, and then fed them to Dan Ryan...

The night the brothers were lying on the floor on their backs, and the kids would sit on their feet to be launched the length of the living room.  They quit when one brother got too enthusiastic and Grace ricocheted off the ceiling...

The time a brother who was reparing something in the attic fell through the ceiling...

The time Tom Ludwig was riding his bicycle in the rain with an umbrella held out in front of him...and ran into the back of a car.
We laughed whenever it was mentioned for days afterward...

Our all house trips to Knott's Berry Farm and Universal Studios...

All the brothers beating it up to the video parlor after the Bible Study to play the new Atari space game...


Oh yeah...there was the eternal round of meetings too, but a lot of fun was had in between.  

Why not?

Then I moved to Fullerton.  Yuk! (actually, I was being quarantined)

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

Lots of good times, also. The bigger problem was the warped relationship with God that was part of the package.

S

Scott -

I think you paint a very realistic picture of what it was like for an AK.  I love the last part where you list what AKs were taught and what they learned on their own, very insightful.  The problem with having taught these AK's these things, they now have to "unlearn" them.  Thank God I believe there IS a God in heaven who is in control of all things.  The guilt I would continue to beat myself up with would be too enormous to bear if I didn't believe he could undertake for my children and re-teach them what the truth is (as it is found in Jesus and not the assembly)  ;)

I wasn't an AK but I remember hearing that a few times live (when in Fullerton) and tape. Eternal meetings were not what I envisioned heaven/eternity to be.

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but enjoying the company of people you love and getting to enjoy the beauty God created forever is more my idea of eternity. Listening to an arrogant plagiarist, embezzler, and adulterer isn't.

I can never forget the times during the afternoon parts of the seminars where everyone was groggy after lunch and endured the lectures with that mindset. One time I took a nap after lunch in my car and missed pre-prayer. Bad me.

One time (or maybe more than one), decided to take a small drive during the break between lectures, just to kind of get away from things.  After I ended up in LA, I decided to turn back.  I missed most of the lecture, but don't really think I missed much.

Dave

Maybe that's why I worked at Lucky's for so long (I hated the place and the management but liked my coworkers). I was always bolting from meeting or something because there would be Sunday worship and evening work. I had an excuse to get away even though one of the leading brothers would eventually put pressure on me to quit and find employment that would not interfere with the meetings. I didn't and worked there until it converted to Albertson's. Then I quit because they became unbearable to work for, especially during the transition period.

On a total tangent, I just had a physics midterm a couple days ago in Lincoln Hall Theater here at UIUC from 9pm-11pm (its where the midwest seminar lectures were always given).  I found it quite ironic that I was once again forced to sit through something I didn't enjoy, in a location with a history of the same, at such an arcane hour of the night (anyone remember the stupid sunday night lectures? ugh, they were horrible ;)), with ~450 other people who felt the same way.  

But getting back to the point of this thread ::), I got to give props to Scott on his list, it's amazingly accurate.

--
lucas

Often the Sunday evening lecture would be quite sparse, even on the west coast.  At least those, with the excuse of travel, would go back.  I also did a few times, myself.

So glad I'm not in school anymore.  :)

Well, I'm in for the long haul :(

I have another 4-4.5 years for my undergrad degrees, and most likely a bit more after that for a doctorate

--
lucas

lol, arent you the one that disallowed people from submitting Usopp dressed as a woman to UK-D? hehe :laugh: