AssemblyBoard

I met with Tim Geftakys this past Sunday. I asked him "Why did you step down from leadership?" His response was "Because George was in sin and we didn't see it!" I also asked him "Are you planning to go back into leadership?"  His response was "Yes!" This will be determined by a nomination from another brother and if no one amongst the saints,  can show why he shouldn't be in leadership he will again be so.  I also mentioned that  over the years many people have been offended at the leadership in this assembly (Not just from George)  his response to this was "Oh did I offend anyone?"  "If so than I'm sorry."  I also asked him about  "paying the taxes he owes the government for recieving wages during the past 25 years. "  Tim assurred me "I've always paid my taxes on the money I receive from the box!" I also asked him about his moral behavior amongst the sisters in the assembly.  He denied any infidelity. Tim also denied of ever hearing of anyone associated in the assembly who attempted sucide or did comtt suicide.

This is pure politics. The system of electing a new 'club' president is in
full swing.

They are rolling over the issues of abuse and the geftakys system that
has espoused the abuse is still virile. They don't need any Viagra. They
are conducting business as usual and electing a new 'club president'.

Tim has never done anything immoral with sisters in fellowship?  HA HA HA-that's a big laugh! >:(

Eula do you know something about roman hands?

Whoaah,

Before I forget.

Tom Greenlee of the Norfolk, NE assembly blew his brains out with a
357. I believe Wayne Mathews was the leading brother on the phone
with him at the time. During Lavitsef  '89 i held back from asking Wayne
about how he was dealing with it. I did ask Gary Schald about that and
his answer turned my blood cold. He said - Tom was just trying to make
us all feel guilty. What kind of a response is that from a shepherd?

Rudy,
It was not Wayne on the phone. You have the facts wrong.

I remember a young vibrant girl who came into fellowship through Fullerton College in the early 80s.  She was totally involved, outreaches all the meetings, then she began to have very serious struggles because she didn't want to move into a sisters house but she felt pressured to do so.  when all of a sudden she disapeared?  I asked the brother in charge of the campus work and all I got was "She has made deciscions in her life."  7 years later I got the true story, "She swallowed a bottle of pills." I was also told of a brother in Fullerton (who is still there) who struggled with depression and slashed his wrist.  My question is "Why doesn't Tim want to admit that this is a reoccuring problem in the assembly?

Alright Pat, was it Gary that was on the phone?

David,

That is sad. The only reason that i can think of for them to lie to
you was in order to cover-up. The young girl's suicide was sad,
but what is worse is the geftakys system which tramples the memories
of the saints so that its system can remain.

Rudy

Rudy,
No. It was a friend of Tom's. We were all out of state at the time.

So if Tim goes back into leadership, who gets to be the new leader? And does Tim confess to knowing about the abuse between Dave & Judy? Or does that just get covered up one more time?

Heide, I imagine Tim will be the new leader .  I suspect that no real changes beyond Georges excommunication are going to take place.  Sunday I stood  in the doorway at the meeting place.  It was sickening to see all the same conformity (These doorkeepers with their startchy shirts and stiff posture, could put any J.W. to shame.) I could hear a letter being read.  It mostly said "What a great fellowship we are...." After 7 years I can't imagine myself as ever being a part of this.

I'm a bit puzzled about the suicide response.  The very first person I met from the Assembly was Tom Vessy who was with Wes Coen and Roberta Fowler at a book table at Orange Coast College in 1977.  Tom introduced me to the anchors.

The very last time I saw him was at the "Wars of David" seminar in September, 1978.  He seemed troubled and then disappeared.  When I asked about him Wes (a young, rising star in Huntington Beach at that time) told me to "just keep my eyes on the Lord", but gave me no details.

It was several years later that I found out that Tom had hung himself shortly after that seminar.

I am in no way implying blame on Tim for that suicide.  However, there is no denying that it happened and Tom was certainly assiociated with the Assembly.

Hello Everyone
Listen up Tim Geftakys

3 things:

There have been several suicides over the years, including a recent one in the Midwest.  Perhaps six in all.  This really is not a good reason to condemn the ministry, however, because George was willing to take whatever he could get in the way of young college students.  If they couldn't serve him actively, they could at least give money.  Many of these people were unstable before they met the ministry.  However, some of them were definitely pushed over the edge by the Assembly.

As far as Tim Geftakys:

He will not lead anyone in Fullerton, unless he starts his own cult.  He may try to do this, and in that case, we need not worry about him, God's judgement will be swift and sure.  As far as him again leading in the "Assembly," too many people are on to him.  However, just to make sure, I'll post some stuff about him, including some of his money handling habits.

I have 2 signed statements from sisters who lived in Tim's home who testify of improper contact, that bordered on sexual contact.  This is not ancient history, but within the last three years.

Don't worry friends, the judgement of the ministry is not contingent upon our diligence, it is something God Himself must do.

Men like Tim will progress no further.  Eli and his sons met sudden destruction, in one day.  This occured after they dared to take the ark into battle.  The day that Tim presumes to elevate himself as a leader over God's people again, will be the day of his destruction.

Brent

What happened to Rudy ?

     In response to Dave Sable's most recent post here:

     i was one of the last people to see Tom Vessy alive.  After the last seminar meeting, i stopped in a Fullerton restaurant frequented by assembly saints, before driving back to the SFValley.  Tom was there.  i recognized that he was extremely depressed, and i sat with him and tried to get him to discuss what was troubling him.  He would not.  

     i felt his pain, having myself been plagued most of my life with depression, and i felt that if i shared with him about my own shortcomings and failures, he would relate and perhaps be encouraged.  But, being a LB & a Worker, i was compelled to preach the "party line" of living as an overcomer (denying anything in my personal life that might negate that image, lest i be exposed and lose my "position").  Tom was completely unresponsive to anything i said.

     Between the time Tom and i parted in that restaurant and the following dawn, he hanged himself.  
     Tom Vessy had some deep-seeded issues that he had  brought before some of the leadership (i don't know who).  The "couselling" he received amounted to an ultimatum:  shape up or ship out.  He believed in the assembly, wanted to be whole and a part of the Lord's work, but didn't know how.  He gave up.  i think GG may have conducted his funeral.  The whole matter was glossed-over and filed under "denial."  i don't see how Tim G could have possibly been unaware of all this.

al Hartman

Dave Sable,

The reason for the suicide responses is due to the statement made to
Dave Mauldin by Timothy Geftakys - he knew of no suicides.

If this 'man' is to be elected to the presidency of the geftakys system,
it is without a doubt that he knew these things - he has never been
'out of the loop'.

The first time I heard about Tom Vessey's suicide was at the next Worker's Meeting.  It was held at a house in central Fullerton that belonged to Kevin Healy at first.  If I remember correctly, Tim and Ginger were the couple in charge of the house.  It was before Jack Hansen lived there.

George told us about Tom's suicide.  I remember listening, shocked and horrified, as I realized that GG was doing DAMAGE CONTROL.  He was blaming everything on Tom V.
Not a word about how a constant sense of being a failure could drag a person's spirits down to the bottom.

It was all Tom 's fault for not rejoicing in the Lord, according to the Great Man.

Tom Maddux

Tom Vessey lived in my home (the beach house) and we worked together in my business. Tom was a very troubled man (no need to share why) but I loved him like a brother and was very deeply affected when Tim was designated to tell me what happened.

Tim wanted to make sure I understood his real problem but I knew Tom better than Tim thought. They have a tough time believing that people can actually use their brains and totally minimize individuals and compartmentalize them. George's way of stereotyping I guess.

Tom Vessey could have been helped. I'm sure there were others and I hope their blood is not on the hands of leadership who dealt with these people in ignorance. One of my major gripes is the fact that peers, men in their 20's were given such authority to direct people's lives. How could they give guidance when they were barely out of diapers themselves? I sometimes admit that I was in the same category but then it was different with me because my wife and I tag-teamed fairly well and I believe we said what we knew and didn't stray into uncharted waters with the men that lived with us. Tom had moved to Fullerton before he took his life.

Tim G is the most self serving and arrogant human being ever to walk the face of this earth. None of this about him  suprises me.  He is a total liar if he claims he knew none of this was going on.  People need to wake up and smell the coffee and realize what a horrible individual this man is.  

Is he aware that it is truly o.k. to go get a real job.  I am sure he is qualified to flip hamburgers or pump gas somewhere.

Or break rocks and make license plates.

During the late 1980s I got volunteered to live in a home with two families.  It was a drag because they were always fighting about who was in charge and me being the only flunky got the fallout. Although I had served my "year" I wasn't granted parole.  ie.  "It is not Gods will  for you to move ..." (Jim Heyman) This was very difficult for me as I wanted to attend college but because I was expected to attend all the meetings and serve in the home along with my full time job I had very little time for school.  Also as you know in 1980 my wife left me.  This ment that I could not nor ever think about dateing or remarriage.(Even if I didn't see it that way in the scriptures) there was no way the brothers would ever allow me to date a sister.  I felt trapped. I was drowning in a sea of despair.  All I had to look forward to was a life in the assembly. I confessed to Kieth Walker "Sometimes I just want to commit suicide!"  Kieths proffessional response was "That is very selfish.  Stop it! "  He counceled me to pray and get back to him once in a while. Today I could never fathom giving so little concern over such an issue.  The reasons for my depression were totally ignored.  Thank God I didn't kill myself!  No one in leadership would even remember who I was!!!! :-[ :-[ :-[

Man, that's rough.   :(

Arthur,
     It was just another day in the assembly...


Bluejay,
     You must have never met his father...

...............................................................................................

     The above remarks may be the most negative i have yet posted on this BB.  Just goes to show me what i'm capable of when i let my cynical nature kick in...
     Is it a bad thing to vent in such a way?  Don't i NEED to let the steam out-- alleviate the pressure of holding it all inside?  Yeah, i really think i do!
     But then i ask myself, How is Christ served by this exercise?--  How is God glorified?    And is he pleased by my doing so?
     When i answer these questions, i am mumbling...    Perhaps i do not really want to hear what i think i'm trying to convince myself of...

     So i ask God the same questions (because i'm starting to think maybe i really need to know the answers)...

     ...and i begin to comprehend that, Yes!, i really DO need to vent...  but to vent in the right direction:  casting all my cares upon him, because he cares for me.  He IS glorified and pleased when i release my stress in a stream of prayer and praise, because that is what he told us to do.

     ...and my expressions toward my brethren?  Well, they should first and foremost lift up Christ, because without his centrality, everything is off-center.  As for exposing the pitfalls (and pratfalls) of life to others-- it may be necessary and expedient to do so, but always in the context of building up, encouraging the expression of all that is Jesus Christ.
     Expressing negativity in order to flatter my ego by garnering cheap laughs at the expense of others is unworthy of the calling by which i am called.

Thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift,
brother al

Yeah, don't I know it :(


Hey Al, don't sweat it.  It feels good, doesn't it, to get it out?  These things should never have been kept under the covers in the first place.  In the assembly you are supposed to be always rejoicing and thinking only good thoughts -- never be depressed, never be critical, etc.   But that's not reality.  I have no problem with us telling it like it is and calling a spade a spade.  In fact I think for the sins of the assembly it has been long overdue.  So let's shout it from the rooftop (if it isn't now, it will be then anyways), hang out the dirty linen for all to see, deal with the problem and then move on with life.  

Actually Al, I did meet his father many a times...I guess your probably right, but then give me this...George G. and Tim G. the most arrogant father - son combo ever in the history of this world???  

Looking back on things, its almost rather comical... Can you see either of these two hypocrites with their superiour, all - knowing attitudes trying to run a company or working in corporate America???  Their act wouldn't fly for 30 seconds.

I always knew there was a reason the assembly didn't have a human resources office!!! (sarcasm)

     Truth be told, Bluejay, i think that one of the biggest problems in corporate America today is that many of its leaders are self-serving egotistic executives who are very much like the G-men of our acquaintance.  That is where the Enron and WorldCom debacles come from.
     But, oh the shame that men and women should conduct themselves so in the administration of Christ's church!

al

Some clarification may be in order.

This is an e-mail that i sent 2/19/03, 1100am, EST

'Wayne',

I was trying to bring to light the culpability of Tim Geftakys regarding the knowledge of suicides in the assemblies. If I had knowledge or evidence regarding income tax evasion, I would most defintely speak out regarding that. Tom's suicide really hit me. I've spent time with him too. I sensed that he was dealing with allot of anger - I did what I could regarding what I sensed. The next thing I know - he committed suicide. That is one of the things that caused me to leave the assembly in Hastings. I had my own struggles, like I don't want to end up like Tom. I've confronted the leadership in Hastings regarding one of their wives. After that it got worse. Blatant advertising by two of the wives. I am withholding names since you have a problem with that.

As far as a public apology, 'Wayne' all I can say is that in my statement I made it very clear that I thought you were the leading brother that was on the phone with Tom. After allot of thought, I have to admit that I am 95%+ sure that it was 'Jeff Jackson' on the phone with him. The way I understand it, Tom waited till you went away and then did what he did. What transpired between Tom and you before you left town is your business. I only know the end result. And as 'Gary Schald' said - he was trying to make people feel guilty. "Jeff and Margaret' left shortly after that and moved to Eau Claire. (sarcasm on) I wonder why (sarcasm off).

You have direct knowledge of a suicide in Norfolk, NE. Yet you remain silent about that as Tim Geftakys claims not to have any knowledge of any suicides. Speak up regarding the suicide of Tom Greenlee. You called me a fool. I would rather be thought of as a fool than as a coward that hides evil. And this is what is happening, evil.

Rudy Kristavcnik


*** The respondant confirmed everything stated regarding the suicide ***

Rudy,
Some clarification may be in order: first of all, Tom Greenlee received psychiatric help. We personally took him to a facility and stuck by him and his family. Wayne has communicated all of this to you in an email so I'm not sure what your point is. It was a very tragic situation and Tom was not abused in any way by the brothers involved. I was there.  You were not. We loved him very much. You may not know that there was a history of mental illness in his family as well. We are not hiding anything because there is nothing to hide. You are waaaay off base to make accusations against Wayne. He did everything he could do to help Tom. I suggest that you stick to things that you know about instead of throwing out accusations and innuendo. It doesn't help anyone on this board.  

As far as wives in Hastings blatantly advertising (as you put it) - I think you are sadly mistaken. I know those women and it is inconceivable that they would behave this way. You may have legitimate gripes about the way you were treated, but that does not  excuse your semi-slanderous accusations about others.  Please, Rudy, what you are doing is not healthy. Be a help here and stick with the FACTS not what you imagined happened.
Thanks for listening.
Pat

3 Things.

1.  Tim Geftakys made a statement that he knew of no suicides in the assemblys.
      3 have been brought up - A man that hanged himself, a woman that swallowed
        a bottle of pills, and Tom w/ the firearm

2.  I mentioned two wives, but there were actually three.
      A. One wife was telling me that at one time she could get any man she
          set her sights on. Shortly after that her husband was telling me directly
          that if his wife were to have sex with someone he would be able to tell.
      B. One wife said come by and see me some time in front of several people
          at a quick stop gas station. All of the people were looking at me to see
          how i would react. I did go to see her, but made sure her husband was
          there at the time.
      C. The third was, how can I put it - sorry, but i still 'blush' regarding what
          she did.

3.  Slander is something spoken. Libel is something written. What they have in common
      is falsehood used to damage someone's reputation. None of this is my 'imagination',
      but, cold and hard facts; none of it falsehood intended for malice.

Hi Everyone!
  I imagine that most everyone who read my article on this site,"False Holiness", realized the Tom V. that I referred to was Tom Vessi.
   I remember him as a very sensitive and kindly bro.  He seemed to have a special delight with the kids.
   Al, I hope you don't blame yourself for what Tom V. did.  I recognize when I wrote the article, and included Tom as an example of what Assembly teaching can do to certain folks, that to make a case that his suicide was 100% the result of the Assembly would not be accurate.  The point of mentioning it was to show that GG teaching contributed to the problem, rather than solved the problem.
  Obviously, everyone who has been in the Assembly doesn't commit suicide, have mental breakdowns, need psychiatric help, etc.   There are those who point out that in the church at large there are similar problems, and that is true to some extent, but does the church foster teaching and practices that can push the sensitive seeker into the despair that Tom V. fell?
  It is not a question of "all churches have these problems," rather are we helping those who we meet to find help in their difficulty.  It may be that the first answer to the above problem is to admit we can't handle it and get the individual to a professional who can.
                         God Bless,  Mark  

     Mark, thanks for bringing up the question of whether i feel responsible for Tom Vessy's suicide.  The principle involved with my answer may be important to many.

     Whether i COULD have, in any circumstance, have made a difference in the outcome, i have no idea.  But the reason i DID NOT make a difference is that i was under the delusion that a bold APPEARANCE of spirituality was more important than the HUMBLE reality of being spiritual.
     i think i may have known in my heart what Tom intended to do, but because of pride, fear, and a mixed bag of emotional factors, i chose denial over humility.

     Tom's decision to end his life was his own, and he alone must answer for it before the Lord.  But the fact that, had i acted differently, he may have decided otherwise is my responsibility.  Such a realization can be crushing.  When i was able to admit my failure, i confessed it to the Lord as sin.  He forgave me and cleansed me-- that is what he died for.

     i am not burdened with guilt for what i have done, because Christ has borne the guilt.  But i am sobered by the reality of what could have been, were i more faithful, and by the immensity of his mercy and forgiveness toward each of us.  ...and that is making me a more faithful servant.

al

Jeremiah 13:23
Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

Hi Al or Mark,

I say this respectfully but what do you really know about Tom Vessy and what happened? I remember you both as "Valley brothers"  but how well did you know Tom and the situation. I was there for the whole deal. Tom was my roommate at the time........ I don't remember speaking to either of you about what went down and what agony Tom went through.

It's really sad what happened to Tom. In retrospect, I put the guilt for what happened on all of those in leadership at the time who pushed Tom to minister at a local college against his will. This really was eating at him and set in motion the first events of this tragedy.

What was worse to me was that these same "leaders" then denied Tom an assembly funeral to hide or deny the whole situation after his years in "fellowship". It's funny that one week Tom was "called" to take on the burden of a campus ministry and then a few weeks later don't exist in the assemblies eyes.

Tom was a good friend and he deserved better.

Hi Pierwalk! :)
  Tom Vessy spent some time out in the Valley, as he was "assigned" to watch some of the Worker kids while the Workers attended one of their seminars.
  He was great with the kids and we got to know him at that time.  What little we knew about the particulars of his suicide was by means of rumor and our attempts to extract info. from the leaders.
  If our understanding of the situation is incorrect and you would like to clear things up please feel free to do so.   It was many years ago and possibly our recollection of the events could be off a bit.
  I brought up his situation to show the dangers of taking sensitive and sincere Christians and placing burdens of performance on them.  In the Assembly if we could not perform we were defective; defective in our very person, because we couldn't actualize our faith.  For those who could not "lay hold" and who "fell away" there was no compassion, as it was stated that they had some kind of "root sin" in their lives that they refused to "get the victory" in.
  We now understand that this view is destructive, but there are those who still cling to some of these toxic false holiness teachings, and are unable to understand a relationship with God based on grace.  I call those who survive the above scenario, "wounded pilgrims" and am dedicated to helping them.
                                                God Bless,  Mark

This is just another example of how poor and narrow minded the assembly leadership was.  About 7 years ago, one of my basketball players committed suicide.  Going to the funeral at a Lutheran Church, I wasn't sure what to expect. The funeral was very sad.  On the flip side, it was interesting to hear a message that actually was well thought out and made sense for once. The pastor who gave the service said that although this was a terrible thing, there is no unforgivable sin.  He then shared from the bible to back up his point.  

Basically, the assembly workers were an elitist, short sighted,  narrow minded (I am talking about you Tim Geftakys!!!)  group that were legends ionly n their own minds.  Yes,  some of them  had some decent qualities, but how situations like these were handled more than offset any good that they did.

that is terribly sad! i never heard a peep about this situation in the midwest. i did have a friend i grew up with who killed herself in her third year of university. she was very kind, attractive, on the dean's list - it was really tragic. i really don't understand how a person could get so far into the mindset of protecting the assembly as to be this coldhearted. that's awful. i'm sorry.

brian

All I can remember about Tom's suicide is that I was told that he came from and alcoholic family and struggled with alcoholism himself.

I can imagine how GG's teaching on overcoming could have aroused feelings of despair. People with severe problems need far more help than an exhortation to repent.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

I disagree with you on the venting, Al.  Does anybody remember the Assembly term "airy fairy?"  Well, I think we can "spiritualize" our recovery and make it "airy fairy" and totally ineffective.

This is what I know about abuse in general, having worked through several trauma issues earlier this year.

The abuse is a poison.  You've got to get it out.  You've got to talk about it.  And talk about it.  And talk about it.  I agree that you don't have to beat people up or use foul language, but I think you have to be honest about how you feel about what happened to you.  You know what REALLY glorifies God, in my opinion?  Healing from what happened and going on in forgiveness.  My trauma issues don't bother me much anymore because I went the the very painful process of resolving them.  At the END of the process is true, authentic forgiveness.  Do you want to TRULY forgive your abusers?  Do the process.  You have to go through.  There's no other way.  That's what I've learned from experience.

May God bless all of you!
Amy