AssemblyBoard

Here is quote by Dorothy Sayers, a contemporary of C.S. Lewis, and a writer in her own right. Thoughts and comments welcome.

" Perhaps it is no wonder that the women were first at the Cradle and last at the Cross. They had never known a man like this Man--there had never been such another.  A prophet and a teacher who never nagged at them, who never flattered or coaxed or patronized; who never made arch jokes about them, never treated them either as 'The women, God help us!' or 'The ladies, God bless them!'; who took their questions and arguments seriously, who never mapped out their sphere for them, never urged them to be feminine or jeered at them for being female; who had no ax to grind and no uneasy male dignity to defend; who took them as he found them and was completely unselfconscious.

"There is no act, no sermon, no parable in the whole Gospel that borrows its pungency from female perversity; nobody could possibly guess from the words of Jesus that there was anything 'funny' about woman's nature.

"But we might easily deduce it from His contemporaries, and from His prophets before Him, and from His Church to this day."

What do YOU think?

Oh come on Pat, you women just think you're as good as better than us.  Up to now I had been really encouraged with your posts.  >:(  Probably just hormones!

Timothy,
We are not amused.  

 ;)

Patricia

I'm just wondering who just gave me that 2nd "ding".  You wouldn't know his/her initials, would you?  Hmmmmm?  ;)

Tim,
Are you talking about the attitude pluses and minuses? I don't have that kind of power. Actually, I am wondering where the numbers come from and who decides? Do you know?
Pat

Pat,
You can give a user attitude points by clicking "good" or "bad" under the user's name...for example, it has now become my habit every time I log on to give you a negative attitude point.  Any questions?  ;)

YouWish!

Dear YouWish,
Thank you. When I log on guess who will be getting a negative attitude point?  ;D  Not your mother, not your brother, not your sister, not your dog!  It's shocking how you young folk disrespect your elders....uh, oh, I"ll stop being , uh, negative.
MomofPaulRobinsonFan

"A Mothers Heart"  by Ellyn Sanna

"Being a beautiful woman, a fufilled woman, are not goals we can chase and grab.  Instead, our beauty and fulfillment are side effects that spring from our commitment to Christ.  As we live His abundant life, interested in His world and delighting ourselves in all the tiny blessings He sends our way, we will find that we are beautiful and fulfiffed simply because we are God's.  Growing old in God's presence will only bring still more beauty and fufillment."

Pat;
If I could give attitude points I'd give you a +  8)

Hi Verne,
Actually, I was  being a little tongue-in-cheek with Mr. Robsinsonfanofallposters. :D  I didn't really feel he was being disrespectful...just having some fun.

However, I do agree that children should respect their elders, but wouldn't it be nice if the elders would actually behave in such way that  they would earn the respect of those younger than they?  :)  George is certainly older than most of us. Should we respect him because of his age? Hmmm..... I think we can all answer that one!
You, 40+?! - I won't even go there  8)  
Any thoughts on women and the church?
Pat

Arlene,
Pluses for you! Thanks.
Pat

Greetings Pat M:

I liked your DS quote. Any certain titles that you've read and wd. recommend?

I have a copy of DS' Creed or Chaos that I think is very good.

Excellent thought Verne!  I've heard that name, El Shaddai, also rendered as "Mother-Father God".  In the Godhead we don't see a sexual division.  As "He" encompasses all, and all, male and female, come from Him, it is certainly not unreasonable to consider God as not male nor female but encompassing both in one.

Gen 1:27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 5:2  Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Consider, Luke 13:34  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her own brood under her wings, and ye would not!"  His love for us is like a mother's love for her children.  He, of course, is the very source of that kind of love.

Pat,
There you go.  But don't think this means I'm going soft!  ;) ;D

I agree with you, Tim and Verne, about God as Mother/Father...El Shaddai.
What do you think about the role of women in the church vs. the role of women in the former assemblies? I am curious.
Verne, thanks for the book suggestion.
Pat

p.s. Tim, how do you get that small print at the bottom of your posts? I want to do that to you!  8)

Sebastian,
Actually, I have read a biography about Dorothy Sayers, but I can't find the title right now. I became a fan of her Peter Wimsey mysteries years ago.  Some notable titles are: Gaudy Night; Clouds of Witness. Her writing is more cerebral than say, Agatha Christie. But if you're not an English murder mystery fan you'd probably hate them.  ::)
Another fantastic British author, who happened to also be a Christian, is Edith Pargeter.  She wrote an incredible trilogy about World War II and also did some medieval historical fiction. Her claim to fame would probably be her Brother Cadfael mysteries, which PBS made into TV specials. She writes those under the pseudonym, Ellis Peters.
I'll stop being a librarian now.  ;D

Verne,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that deacons/deaconesses were more recognized servants rather than someone in leadership.

Andrea :D

Assembly teachings on women in the assembly were mostly sound but the practice was rotten.
The areas where I think the teachings re. women were correct:
- allowed to pray and request hymns in worship & prayer meetings.
- not to teach/preach from the pulpit in the regular church meetings.
- not allowed to be elders.
- headcoverings???

...incorrect:
- headcoverings???
- subordinate to all brothers
- no deaconnesses*

*I believe the entire assembly doctrine and practice regarding elders & leading brothers was heretical, or at best, way off base.  Elders are not appointed/selected outside of the local assembly.  All assembly elders & "leading brothers" were selected or ratified by GG or men directly answerable to him.  Also, the Word speaks of no one with general authority in the local church except elders.  Deacons and deaconnesses had responsibility/authority over specific areas of their service (Acts 6 - daily serving of food) but not over the whole church. Another word for deacon is "servant".  "Leading" brother?  Not a scriptural position in the local church.

PS Pat, to learn about small print, you'll have to read my email to you. ::)

I remember when I first came into fellowship and saw a need for being a woman of Christ. I asked around to see if there were any books that would teach me how... (I love to read!) I was encouraged by Judy G. to go thru the bible. I came up with this idea of going thru Proverbs 31 with a group of woman. We were a small group at first. The main question at that time was "who's going to teach it?" I didn't think anyone should teach it, just woman taking a verse at a time and sharing their thoughts and having a practical application. We would all meet for breakfast and share. It was a really wonderful time!

What has taken me years to realize is that if a Proverbs 31 woman ever did walk into the Assembly she would get booted out! Imagine a married woman, buying a field.....

Another thing I find interesting looking back is they we were not encouraged by the brethren to have a women's group....

MAY 19: 2:34 AM EST:

WOMEN IN THE LORD JESUS' LIFE:
REFERRING TO THE BIOGRAPHY OF THE LIFE OF JESUS
AS WRITTEN BY LUKE:
1. His mother Mary.
2. Luke 4:38-39: Peter's mother in law
3. Luke 7:11-16: Raising of the Widow's Son
 Verse: 13: When the Lord saw her. He had compassion on her and said to her. Do Not Weep.
vs: 15(b) And He presented him to his mother.
4. Luke 7:36-50 Anointing of Jesus' Feet.
CHECK THIS PASSAGE OUT THOROUGHLY
5. Luke 8:1-3  Women who ministered to Jesus' daily needs.
  vs: 3..........and many others who provided for Him from their substances (NKJV)
6. Luke 8:41-48
7. Luke: 8:49-56
8. Luke 10: 38-42
9. Luke 11:27 -28
10. Luke 13:11-13
11. Luke 21: 1-4
12. Luke 23: 49
13. Luke 23:55-56
14: Luke 24:1-12


Jesus had/has compassion for women.
There are other references.
Remember the culture at the time. Women were treated like property, no status, lower than the animals that men possessed.
Jesus is a champion for women.
Even Paul's letters are respectful towards women, with high praise for women who opened their homes for the spread of the gospel, and emphasis on the need for husbands to love their wives , like Jesus loves her.

We are all children of God.  So women are Jesus' sisters, wives, daughters, friends, , Jesus died for us women too. Jesus pours out his love on us women, wants the best for us women too.
The gospel's is full of Jesus mercy , compassion and demonstration of love towards women, even breaking cultural laws and taboos, where women were concerned back then.
Relationship between Jesus and women is a very positive one, where Jesus is concerned.

Lenore,

Jesus had compassion for the needy.  You bring up a very important aspect of the Lord having compassion on the women.  He did not subject himself to the laws of society and the scribes and the Pharisees, if those laws were contrary to God's will.

there's more:
Mary and Martha
The woman caught in adultery
The Samaritan woman at the well
The woman bent double
The woman who had a hemorrhage for twelve years
Mary Magdalene


Marcia

Marcia:  When you read Luke 7 :36 to 50:
The woman who was anointing Jesus feet with her tears, wiping them with her hair, oiling them with expensive perfume, kissing his feet.

In the culture back then. It was custom when a traveler has entered you house has a guest, to wash his feet, because just having sandals, the feet would be dusting and hot.
It was also a custom to greet your guest with a kiss,
It was also anointed an important guest like a teacher, with oil.

The difference: A woman in a life of sin, which would of gotten her stone,  where society would not of touch her with a ten foot pole, where she was shunned.
because of her choices of livelyhood.

This woman of lower status, a society's outcast, dared to enter a Pharisee home, touch a man, and this man
not object.
Pharisee  due to the nature of the times, properly questions Jesus character, due to the character of the woman, and what Jesus was allowing to continue happening.
The woman was a sinner. Yet Jesus has compassion on sinners.
Jesus told a parable to the Pharisee, then got the pharisee the question who was forgiven much.
THen Jesus turn the tables on the Pharisee.
See this woman, vs: 44: this woman wash my feet with her tears and dried them with her hair.
You Simon, my host failed to provide.
This woman has not ceased kissing my feet, yet Simon , you  did not provide me a kiss of friendship upon entering the house.
This woman anointed my feet, with expense oil,
You Simon did not even anionted my head.

Jesus said that woman repentant actions with her tears, hair, kissing and her oil.
was in submissive to Jesus, Jesus recognized this, and forgave the woman. In vs:50 Go in peace, Your faith has saved you.
The woman in her humble state of repentant, paid more homage to Jesus , than an important official of Jerusalem, who should of known the customary greetings you give a guest, and failed.
You are right. This is just one example of Jesus compassion on woman, and Jesus was not afraid to show that compassion for them.
Woman are important to Jesus.