AssemblyBoard

Hello.  I am looking for this unarticulate, over weight/fat balding guy with really bad breath.  He has been know to give really self serving counsel.  He has a wife beater for a brother and an adulterer/fraud for a dad.  In his case, the acorn didn't fall to far from the tree.  He can be descibed as really, really, really arrogant...I think his wife was the slavemaster/principal at the Cornerstone Compound...I mean School....I wonder how she got that job???  I don't have any interest reaching him at work...Oh wait, thats impossible, hes never held a job...
But he can contact me at 1-800-Timlooksgoodinprisonorange.

I think his name is something like Tim Gefneverpaidanytaxes...Anybody seen this guy around???  He's a great guy, and if you don't believe it, just ask him.

Oh, one more thing...As far as distinctive features go, as he continues to bald, the horns on his head should become that much more visible. Also, beware of that pitch fork!!!

I saw that in a Dilbert cartoon--only it was an accountant who stopped going to the gymn.  Once he got a look going, he just went with it.

Anyways, man Bluejay, seems like you're on a vendetta.
What did Tim do to you, eat you're favorite pair of socks?

I think I did see that holy man that you were describing.  He was at a "Lord's Servant Anonymous" seminar hosted by the Reverend Jesse Jackson, held in La Habra.  I caught a glimpse of the title of one of the meetings.  It read, "How to get stupid people to ignore the blatantly obvious and damning facts about you, and then get them to continue to worship you and give you money."  

 :D ;)

I just found out what Tim Gefneverpaidanytaxes' three point message is for next week:

Title:  Attributes of a Male Geftakys

1.  Living a Lie and Mooching Off Others

2.  How to Treat Women Like Second Class Citizens

3.  Why a Geftakys Looks Good In an Orange Prison Jumpsuit

Yes, the appearance may be as if Bluejay is on a vendetta, but I do find it interesting how I can easily identify Tim by just reading a few of the words that Bluejay uses to describe him.

For example:

It looks like a personal attack, but still the first name that comes to mind when I read this is Tim.  I won't quote any other of Bluejay's posts in this message, but the same is true for other portions of Bluejay's posts (I need only to read a few words and Tim comes to mind).  Curious...

Lighten up people.  Can't you giggle instead of getting offended? ;D

Dearest Tim Geftakys,

I just got done working out in the gym and a few people besides me were talking about how they were going to Southern California.  They wanted to know if I had ever been there and if so, where the go-go clubs and adult book stores were located....I told them I had absolutely no idea because I under no circumstances would ever attend those places....

Then it occurred to me...I bet either Tim Geftakys or his wife beating brother might know....Is it o.k. to put these guys in touch with you.

I gave them your email address....neverworkedadayinmylife@geftakysfraud.com...Is it still the same???

Dear Bluejay,
I've read some of your posts and it saddens me to see how extremely angry you are. It's sad because I know that your anger is doing nothing more than making the Geftakys laugh. After a period of time, this anger is your problem, and not theirs. You have to let it go...let it go from your heart, let it go from your head. Learn from the experience and let it all go. Don't let them keep you in bondage like this! I used to feel that way too, and I know it's easier said than done. But you must strive and don't let the Geftakys get you all riled up just thinking about them! They're not worth it! May the Lord give you peace, brother. Take care.
- Matt

Matt

Thanks for your concern...Just an FYI...Its not like I have been sitting around for the past ten years stewing about Tim Geftakys...I have successfully lived my life and made a positive name for myself in the community that I live in. I am a positive, outgoing person who people are drawn to. My business associates, peers and friends would not think of me as angry - actually, just the opposite.  Simpy put, I stored his transgression towards me in the back of my mind and have waited until the appropriate time to hammer him.

Just letting this go would be allowing Tim  G. to take the easy way out. Once I hear that Tim Geftakys is a broken man, I will quit posting.  Hopefully, I can have something or even a lot to do with this.  I get along with 99.9% of the people in this world - he just happens to be the .01%. He has no one to blame but himself for this ordeal.

 As far as my postings making the Geftakys' laugh...They have been laughing their way to the bank now for how many years...Why should this be any different.

Bluejay, at one time I was involved in both the Omaha and Norfolk Assemblies.  I use to live in Norfolk and "labour" on campus at beloved Wayne State College.  I have never met you, but from your testimony it sounds like we have a lot in common.  If you could reply with your contact information, I would greatly appericate it.  Don't worry, I have no hidden agendas, I would just like to converse with you if at all possible.  My e-mail is listed below.  

mkoley@johnsonandassoc.com

Thanks,
Mark

Why is it whenever anyone speaks out against the Geftakys they get labeled as being bitter, angry or divisive?

I don't understand this....

Heide

Heide -

I wouldn't worry about it...I would just keep speaking out against them.  I don't worry if  people think I am bitter, angry (which i'm not) or divisive when it comes to speaking out against criminals.  

Heide, I, personally, felt that Bluejay was angry (not divisive), and I'm sure he would not deny that. I'm not defending the Geftkays' at all, but I am concerned for bluejay. I just don't want him to get burned. I'd love to see the Geftakys come to justice too. I just want people like bluejay to be at peace, it's horrible to see the results of the Geftakys' "work."

It seems to me that Bluejay is having a jolly old time (albeit at Tim Geftakys' expense). Why don't we just leave him be? Just a suggestion.
Verne

How bout you castrating yourself and moving to Iraq? Just a suggestion.
You know, you just can't resist "correcting" people, can you? You're just like a Geftakite to the nth degree...

Go Matt!!!

Hi Bluejay:
I had a funny feeling that this phony-balony expression of concern for you was suspect... what a tender and solicitous soul huh? I think you get the message...keep on posting my friend...we need the comic relief!
Verne

 :'( :'( :'( :'(



 ??? ??? ??? ???
Hyuk! Hyuk!

Verne

     The phrase "A chicken in every pot"  was a presidential campaign promise (FDR, i think).  It popped up in my memory (my grandfather told me about it) and prompted me to coin the phrase "Two camps on every thread" as a description of the GABB.

     It's kinda comical:  just as soon as someone starts a new thread, sides are formed.  It reminds me of kids on a playground, choosing teams for a ball game.

     On one thread there is a Scriptural Creation team vs. a Scientific Evolution team.

     Another thread hosts the Bible Bangers vs. the Spirit Leds.

     There are the BABs vs. the AORTAS (Born Again Believers vs. All Other Religions' Top All Stars).

     On yet another thread there is a team of people who want only to expose and punish the Geftakys Family and its followers.  They are opposed by a team which seeks only to expose the first team's anger and bitterness.

     Finally, there seem to be several threads where the teams are Verne Carty vs. Everybody Else!  What's up with that?



who says old guys don't have a sense of humor?
al

Al,

You forgot the  Dead Threads.

(Sounds like a heavy metal rock group).

You would not want the BB to go moribund with boredom now would you? After all am I not the "Sparkman"?!
Verne

Verne,

You must be an English teacher.  All these new big words.
Moribund - had to look it up in the dictionary.
Or is it your years of sitting under GG's ministry?(This is not an insult and is only intended to be a joke).

Verne,

     True, you do provide us with lessibund...

     "Sparkman?"     i thought it was SPANKMAN!!!


McGov,

     Careful-- don't get caught in the crossfire!  The next two camps may be firehoses vs. roman candles!!!


are we having fun yet???
al

twice in a row; you must think I'm Scottish.

Well I'm not, so keep guessing.

Er...I do believe I spank...er...stand corrected...
Verne


MGov:
5 % George, 95 % Latin
Verne

Nice try Verne trying to make it look like I was telling Bluejay to move to Iraq instead of you! haha, but surely nobody else was that stupid...now stop trying to stir up trouble.

How funny, Verne! I had a feeling that you were a jackass and guess I was right. I never asked Bluejay to stop posting; do you have some words you are trying to put in my mouth? Yes, Bluejay, keep posting. And we know how "tender and solicitious" you've been, Verne, with everyone, especially the Robinsons. So keep up the caring spirit.

Who seems to be doing all the BRAYING... hmmmn..?
Verne

This is supposed to be funny? >:( ??? ??? :-[ :-\

Balderdash!

Any relation to Goblydegook?
Verne

y'all aren't acting too bright.  are any of you other than bluejay over the age of 20?  i have more intelligent conversations with my students everyday.

how about if we all stop trying to control people.  if we don't like bluejay's outrage, why don't we just pray for him.  do you really think that he is going to listen to any of you- that he would actually take any of your advice?  if you do, you have another thing coming.  

let him be angry.  let him speak out.  let him be funny.  he is letting you all be nice and pleasant and even banter back and forth.  i don't see bluejay jumping up trying to break up your fights or change your minds.  

bluejay will not stop speaking out against tim g. until he is good and ready to.  nothing you or i say can change that.  so deal and start acting your ages.

-v-

There is certainly more to life than "intelligent conversation"...lighten up...
Verne

p.s. Both Al and I have long left 20 far behind...don't know about MGov...

If you must know, it's 45.

Gobblydegook and Balderdash are the 2 threads that Al was referring to, ie G vs B
one of the revived Dead Threads

no kidding! castration?? jeez... i  HATE spending my time here trying to defuse potential flame wars, and am this -->||<-- close to just suspending the accounts of those who want to start them. it would make my life a lot easier. disagree, tease, argue, discuss, agree (!?), ignore -  but don't try to pick fights by flaming people, name-calling, etc. ugh.

Brian, since you used me as an example of a misbehaving poster, I hope you will allow me to say a little something in my defense. Al has a good point about it consistently being Vernecarty vs. other people. Yet, "other people" are the ones that get singled out by the moderators. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with this ministry's history of ganging up together with the person in authority (usually older) and sweeping any of their wrongdoings under the rug. Out of sight, out of mind, right? Wrong! Vernecarty has twisted my words around and put words in my mouth to try to make it look like I was encouraging Bluejay to stop posting. In addition, Vernecarty tried to make it look like the comments I had made toward him were really meant for Bluejay. Now, I'm not saying that you didn't read the posts carefully, so I'm just curious why there is a double standard going on here. That's all.

Everyone here knows Brian's capabilities and that he does not need me to defend him. However... in the interest of fairness and accuracy...
Verne
p.s. As you no doubt noticed Brian, fortunately for this lightweight, featherweight, I have dutifully remained in my neutral corner... ;D

oh, WHAT? You have remained in a neutral corner? What do the Robinsons have anything to do with this conversation, Verne? I'm taking about this thread, Verne. I don't feel that I've been treated fairly and I think the only problem you have with me is that I said the Robinsons were hilarious, not irritating (which is why you brought them up). Your ego was wounded and apparently you're still miffed. It's been a little creepy that you took it to this extent and tried to twist my words around in order to get posters like Bluejay to feel that I've been offensive to them. And fortunately for me that you have remained in your neutral corner verneswitzerlandcarty? I guess lucky for you I'll be kicked off the BB if I say what you really deserve to hear, Jack ahhh.....

;D ;D ;D
Verne

absolutely - and i appreciate your directness and honesty in how you see the situation. its the best way to find a common understanding and make peace.


 :) actually it has nothing to do with the way the assembly was run. but there are certain dynamics you will find in any community, one of them being that older members of that community have more of an established pattern of behavior, which gives them kind of a buffer of good behavior to fall back on in those moments of impatience. verne does not have a history of being an aggressive poster, although he has been rather rough with folks most recently. you, on the other hand, have just arrived, so i have very little to judge you by except the few posts i have already seen. if some of those posts are full of name-calling, fight-picking, trouble-starting kinds of statements, then i am more likely to assume you will continue in the same vein.


i honestly think you have misinterpreted verne's posts. i feel silly trying to explain other people's posts for them, but i didn't read verne trying to put words in your mouth. i think its clear he misunderstood your intentions in what you wrote to bluejay, and you telling him to castrate himself didn't clarify your meaning very much. his response to that was to point out that someone who would tell someone else to castrate themselves over a such a small misunderstanding may not be a very kind and understanding person. it never looked to me like verne was trying to intimate that you were saying those things about bluejay. i think you are letting your anger over verne's responses to the robinson boys seriously color your interpretation of what verne writes. ease off the hair trigger (everyone!) and use the boards for what they best suited for - pompously proclaiming opinions while perched precariously on a pine soapbox. please?

Matt,

The difference between your posts and the other adamant posts, is your brash name calling and language.  You are fighting.

Verne has heeded the encouragement to "cool it", but you haven't yet.

I should have included Matt and Lurker in my post taken from "who is deceived"
Quote:
Quote from: Pat Mathews on March 29, 2003, 12:40:17 pm    
 

In addition this BB has the unfortunate quality of making people who post seem fairly one-dimensional and I think that is one of the problems. Sarcasm, humor, and witty remarks lose something without facial expression, tone of voice, eye contact.  I am not saying that I agree with every word Paul or Luke have written or the tone in which it has been written, but do any of us agree with anyone here 100%?
I know we all have better things to do than read the jabs and jibes that have been prevalent on this thread. I would like to think that everyone here has enough maturity (whether young or old) to maintain some semblance of dignity and respect for the opinions of others without pulling out the swords.

It is much more helpful when we stick to issues and stop with the personal attacks and that does apply to young and old. If you must at the very least use IM so the rest of us don't have to wade through the barbs.

 


Dear Verne, Heide, affirming, Luke and Paul, and To Whom This May Concern

Consider what Pat has written (as quoted above).  I suggest the you/we all IGNORE the bait and stick with the topic.  When you feel provoked "take 6 minutes off"(no insult or sarcasm intended here) before replying.

Love and God bless,
a sister in the Lord

Thank you, Brian, it needed to be said.

Oh my goodness! Is that the difference? Thank you kindly! I don't know what I would do if you did not have a keen sense of the obvious, MGov.
- Matt

Hey MGov:
This a figure our fairer bretheren ususually guard with their lives...nice to see you so comfortable with your planetary tenure...
Verne

It's called 'a sign of the times'.  As one matures(aka gets older) one develops this keen sense of humor(as diplayed by Al - whose age is posted for all to know). One doesn't care about how old they are.  Exposure to teens is especially good to develop this.  Verne you must not have hit 40 yet, hence you lack of awareness of this condition.(BTW I am joking).

Another big word  Verne.
ususually - couldn't find it in the dictionary though.

Have you seen 'My Big Fat Greek Wedding?'

Anyone ever seen George G pay taxes? I found it interesting looking thru Social Security that I could find Betty but not George. It is interesting to me that so much of George's life isn't documented.

Heide

I'm curious.  How does this tax thing work anyway?  If they received money from the saints, the taxes have already been paid on that money; do they have to pay taxes again?
Also, by not being registered, I understand that the assemblies did not benefit from any government handouts either.  So does it balance out in the end?

MG

In the "legal" sense, McGov, yes, I would say you are right, the taxes were already paid.  I think the issue being raised by those of us who are now questioning the system that was put in place is not a "legal" one, but one of moral ethics.  We tithed dutifully as assembly members (most of us did anyway, right?)  We were told that we were tithing without getting the normal deduction any other tithing church member, tithing to a 501(c)(3) organization would be getting, because we were being superior.  We weren't registering due to it being the last days, and we want to be able to go "underground" when the government starts demanding that the church "do this or that".  We were told our money was being used "for the Lord's work, both here and abroad."  

That was not the case.  All our money went to one place:  George's pockets.  And who knows where it all is now.  This man fleeced the flock, lining his own pocketbook, meanwhile hidiing behind a cloak of spirituality.  Makes me want to vomit.  So, yes, in the legal sense, the taxes were paid once.  Perhaps what really needs to happen is a criminal case of fraud.  Anyone ever hear of Jim Baker?

Boy we're we duped!!!!!!!  Big time!  I was a bookkeeper and I wouldn't stand for this in my own finances or that of a company I was working for, just throw the money in, no accounting for it, etc.  What a fool I feel like, how about any of you out there with an accounting background, feel similar????? ::)

I will never tithe to a church ever again that does not issue me a yearly statement indicating how much I have contributed and issues a yearly statement to the congregation of where the money was spent.  

Accountability....................wasn't that something that was drilled into US, as the sheep of the assembly?

Boy I really like this Kimberley...! Hey folks, let's face it. This is the long and  short (-changed!) of the matter. Go Kimberley!! ;D
Verne

Kimberley,

OK, so lets say(or maybe you are absolutely sure) that GG did line his own pockets with the Lord's money.  What does the Lord want us to do about it now?
Al, Verne I appreciate your input too, to my question.


Looks like Al's influence has worn off on you too. It's twice now that you have referred to me as McGov(and it doesn't really matter to me).  I was actually considering changing my username to McGov.  Initially I had wanted to use MG, but then I thought people might think I was a certain LB.  The I chose MsMG, and that didn't work out because I typed in my email address incorrectly and Brian wouldn't send me a password(no offense here Brian). So I settled with a new username MGov. That's the long and short of it - the history of my username.  You can keep calling me McGov, if you want to.

     We will see where a lot of the money went when the Geftakys' house is sold.  A lot of it probably went into improvements such as the peg-and-groove wood flooring and the backyard fountain.  And there may well be some buried in the back yard in coffee cans.

     But we need to make a very important distinction:

     Those who have mishandled the funds have a lot to answer for before God.

     Those who GAVE the money did so as unto the Lord himself, and he accepted it as such, just as he did the widow's mite (which was destined to be misused by those who controlled the coffers).

     When we gave, it was to the Lord's work.  Although men mishandled the funds, we did not, for we believed we were giving to God.  God honors that giving.

     When they stole, it was not from our treasury, but from God's.  They did not steal from us, but from God.  There will be an accounting.
                                Matthew 25:31-46
.....................................................................

     Once again, as MGov (see, i got it right!) points out, i am honored to openly declare that the Lord has granted me 60 years thus far.  i want to point out, however, that i still get "carded" in stores and restaurants.  Only now it's to see whether i qualify for the senior discount!

MGOV ;)  

There was no malicious intent on my part in the spelling of your name.  My eyes are not what they once were and I could have sworn (if I was a swearing person) that it was McGov (again, probably a throwback to my parents hippie days and serving with them on the presidential campaign-as small a child as I was) hehehe ;D  Please accept my humble apologies.  I had an issue with my name back in the old days of this bb (people wanted to call me Kimmy, spell my name without an "e") so I understand.

In answer to your question.........What does the Lord want us to do about it?  I think he wants those who are in the know to act upon what they know with the authorities and for the rest of us, I can only answer for myself.  God is teaching me regarding His sovereignty.  I am trusting Him!  I tithed as unto the Lord.  He will judge these men who used the Lord's money for their own ends.  If they never receive an earthly judgement from the Lord, it won't matter to me.  I am leaving it in the Lord's hands.  It does not mean that I don't believe that these men need to be held responsible for the fleecing of God's flock.  But I will not lose sleep over it or be bitter about it.

I hope you understand I have nothing against you MGov, I am truly on this bb to help in the healing of those who have been affected by this place (including myself.)

Oh no it didn't Al...didn't you know that all that remodeling work was done entirely gratis, courtesy of the many skilled saints in fellowship who just really wanted to serve (at His insistence) "The Lord's servant?"
'Fraid we gonna have to look elsewhere for that dough my man...
Verne
btw. don't you have to be over 50 to qualify for "seasoned citizen" status...? Not that I haven't worked hard for all this grey I am showing...it does have a nice ring to though, especially the "senior" part... ;D

Hi Dennis:
You were somewhat before my time but your reknown lingered on after you left; good to see you on the BB.  I heard before you left you were once the ultimate insider...Hope you and yours are doing well...
Verne

Not yet; should I?
Verne

Kimberley,

(Re: McGov) I am not offended nor did I think that you were being malicious.  I was just having a little bit of fun at your expense.

Verne,


Actually I don't know what your taste is for movies.  We were on a humor post so I thought of a humorous movie.  I found it very funny, and thoroughly enjoyed it.  Please pre-view it, however, before having kids see it, so that you know where to fast forward.
BTW your age is still a mystery.  My guess 38.

Bless you my chile...Actually the event date is Setember 26, 1955...how old does that make me agian...? My wife says I don't look a second over 25...
I share September 26 with my oldest daughter Anna (who happened to be born two weeks late- smart kid); It would seem her destiny to eclipse her poor dad...guess who gets priority every September 26?
Verne

Let's  see if I can clear this up or just add more confusion onto it. It wasn't just the Geftakys family that did not claim income on their taxes. Also the workers! I won't say all the workers because I don't know, but the majority of them did not claim what they received from the assembly as income. From a biblical standpoint, render to Cesar what is Cesars. So on schedule C, there should have been an income reported. I also find it interesting that most people who were talked to are defiant about there taxes as if they may not be filing. Can you imagine the hundreds of thousands of dollars that rolled in, in cash mind you while families in the assembly went without? And on top of that, the people who lived with Betty & George, Tim & Ginger, who paid rent! What a scam.....

Does anyone know of George's younger years, what he did for employment? Where does the insurance company fit in?

Heide

Anyone:

Did the "workers" get money?  Any former workers want to respond?

It's been 10 days and not one person has responded to my inquiry as to whether the workers received any money.  

I find that interesting.  I'm sure there are workers who are monitoring this site and NOT ONE has responded to clear the air?  Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Kimberley,
My husband and I were in the work for about 25 years and we did not receive any money because we were in the work. Full-time workers received money, but I don't know how much. I always heard that their needs were met....some more than others, it would seem.

Yes, I've seen Tim Gefneverpaidanytaxes a lot of times. In the 2001-2002 school year, he came down from Fullerton every other Tuesday for the campus Bible Study at San Diego State with the Grants (Dan and Jen). Of course, he went to the campus conference 2002 and when we were walking back from the chapel/lecture hall to the cabins, we had an interesting little discussion about morality. He criticized the Catholic churches for their priest's lack of morality and exclaimed how disgusting that so many people in that church are deceived by hypocritical leaders....hmm...............right.

Hi Kim,

The regular workers had to work for a living though they all seemed to make a certain amount of money from the brother or sisters that they had living with them.

My experience from SLO was the so called full-time worker there did very well  especiaaly from just before the time I left.

there were always lots of questions with very little accountability.

BTW this is the first pst I've done in some time so I suspect people aren't looking here as often. Give it some time for others to respond.

Apparently Tim Gefneverpaidanytaxes is now working for a company called the Code Red Group in Yorba Linda.  

His impressive resume must have got him that job.  I can just see it:

Tim Gefneverpaidanytaxes

1975 - Present:  Leading Brother and Worker

Responsibilities Include:

-  shepherding
-  leading sisters home
-  embezzling
-  covering up abuse
-  gaining weight on a daily basis
- hitting on females when wife not around

Anybody know what Code Red Group is?   Sounds kind of sleezy.

I think Code Red is a soft drink that has side effects that make women find married, fat, balding, and senseless bald guys attractive.

you guys!!!

Code Red is an advertising business, even if does sound like the Mountain Dew soft drink.  

Matt Sciaini

Thank you for the information Matt.  

Just found out some info, fresh baked in the kitchen of Google, that there is a internet worm called "code red" that's causing trouble.  Interesting coincidence how there is also now a worm that causes trouble working for Code Red.

My guess is that with Tim Geftakys at the helm,  The Code Red advertising business will not be a Fortune 500 company any time soon.

Dear Uh Oh:

He is not at the helm.  Just a working stiff, I imagine, selling for living.

Matt Sciaini

About public accountability - the whole tax issue and stealing money etc etc... I just wonder how hard it is for the rest of you to see that some assemblies - ottawa for example, continue as though nothing has happened.  For years I heard rumblings from those who left by how Nancy abused others financially.  Has anyone done any reporting to the government about those who do not pay up taxwise.  I'd like to see the unbreakable egg broken, you know.  I think it would save or at least help release many saints still inside.  HOw do others deal with the fact that the light is on but there are still those with their eyes closed, pretending otherwise?
delila (yes, that's really my name) I was in fellowship in canada for seven years

I've said it before but I'll say it again. Bluejay, you should have had the balls to walk away the first time you felt a Geftakys was taking advantage of you. Insted you stayed and got your validdation by "bending over". I have a brother that is a strong, kind man and you would be lucky to know him. He is forgiving and understanding. Proud of who he is and who I am and the family we have become. He is a Geftakys Male. I'm done here. This BB is poison to me. :'( You are the people that helped to hurt. My grandpa and dad to hurt us then and now I come and read this CRAP and just get hurt again. You are responsible for your choice to be a part the assembly. You are responsible for who you hand your money to. My Grandpa was evil, my uncal an idiot, and my dad a abuser. So one question. Why did you follow them??? Take responsabilaty and GET A LIFE!!!!! Good buy all. Wish you the best and I hope you all heal.

P.S. Thanks Scott for your contribution and encouragement to my sister.

Hi CAGirl,

This thread has not been active since Jan 2004.  Most people have moved on.  It is unfortunate that these old threads still hurt, but the reality of it is that it was like you said, "My Grandpa was evil, my uncal an idiot, and my dad a abuser."  Yes, we facilitated the Geftakys abuse and most of us readily admit that we were wrong and should have had the sense and the guts to do something about it; some did, but most did not.  As they say, "hindsight is better...".  I hope that you find healing from the abuse you suffered and I ask your forgiveness for the part I played in keeping the system going for as long as it did.  I am very appreciative for this BB and the website which have played a major role in helping me come to my senses.  Bluejay's story might give you some insight from his POV. www.assemblyboard.com/index.php?topic=354.msg8257#msg8257 (http://www.assemblyboard.com/index.php?topic=354.msg8257#msg8257)

God bless,
Marcia

Bluejay is also an AK (ass'y kid), not born into it but brought to all the meetings by his mom, while his dad, who saw through it all, refused to come. Tim G. tried to turn him against his dad, who was also a believer. Ass'y kids are in a world of hurt.

Unfortunately, CAGirl is right, "We are the people who helped to hurt..." We all learned to be hurtful. As much as we may feel we have been delivered, healed, restored to our right minds, there yet remains in us a lot of the good ol' ass'y ways, as evidenced by recent threads over the last couple of months, even--not only the victim mentality, but also bludgeoning each other, forcefully imposing strong opinions on each other with verbosity, ridicule, ass'y-sounding spirituality, kissing up to strong personalities, etc.....

The "I know I'm right and I'm going to make you agree" stuff felt so good, even though we were ignorant of where the other person was coming from.  It's hard to have an adult conversation or debate when many of us revert so easily to being little kids in the school yard, one up, one down with each other. After all, that's the way we were coerced to live for so long it now seems normal. I know I'm like that, and it's one reason I don't post a lot here--my default position is "the authority", and it stinks, but once in a while I have to try to say something anyway.

I also want to apologize to CAGirl for my part in creating and supporting the system that devastated your life. I was wrong, wrong, wrong. I admire your guts, your honesty, your determination to deal with your own life. You go, girl, and don't let us drag you down.

So am I. That does not mean that change is impossible.
It may be the case that some of the extremes we have witnessed were in fact attributalbe to the fact that in the assemblies honest and open discussion was so stifled. The BB can be a rough place for the thin-skinned, but by and large, I think the oportunity to make their best case is equally extended to all. I for one enjoy reading your observations, infrequent though they are Margaret.
Verne

I'm not sure what to say about this, but I can say a couple things with certainty.

I am in contacted fairly frequently by a number of AK's, some of them "high profile," some not.  This, in addition to the fairly large traffic of email I still get from ex-members and their families gives me a pretty good read on how this board is perceived by people who fit the descriptions of AK and ex-member/family member.

It isn't the strong personalities, or forceful imposing of strong opinions that turns people off here.  The fact is everyone can have a strong opinion here, and many of do.  What turns people off about this board is the victim mentality, and the constant rehashing and whining about the Assembly.

CAgirl called it poison, and it is.  It's a powerful poison for people who were hurt who are now healing and "getting on," with their lives.  Yes, it helps initially to get one's eyes wide open, and to understand and validate who and what we were all about in the Assemby.

However, once that is established that spiritual abuse did take place, and that we shared in it, there's not a whole lot of help past that.  It does no one any good to continually say, "I was a victim of an evil man." Yes, we all needed to recognize that, and a few still do, but the sooner we get past that the better off we will be.

Of course, people are pretty much free to post whatever they want here, which includes the ability to mock, ridicule, support, or even "kiss up" to whomever they wish.  That's what makes this so much different than the Assembly, which is what attracts people to the board.

What turns them off is the constant and victimization mentality expressed so often.  Another thing that seems to get under people's skin is the phoney spiritualality, which often expresses itself in when a sensitive, knowledgeable, mature person tells us how to think, feel, and post...in a manner that is Christlike of course.

THAT is what most gets my goat.

I don't know if she wants to do or not, but if CAgirl reads this, perhaps she would be willing to go into more detail about the "poison" she mentions in her post.  I am quite confident that many of the regular posters here are entirely blind to what she is saying.

Brent

Margaret et al,

I would hope that both the strong and the not-so-strong personalities would feel free to voice their opinion.  I usually focus on content rather than tone.  I'm not about to tell people what tone to use or not to use unless of course people start posting lies.  I am also learning what discussions it is best to stay out of.

Unfortunately in the recent disagreement the one-who-was-supposedly-weak used their victim status against the one who was disagreeing with them.  (I am not talking about what was posted on this thread.)  This gave the victim an edge over the other and many rallying to feel sorry for them and thus missing the point of the discussion entirely.

Just my opinion,
Marcia

Margaret, People are venting here. CAGirl was right in the thick of it when things got heated up. Her post is just as venemous as Bluejays was from 2.3 years ago, they probibly have more in common then they realize Fruit of the Assembly. Also her parents took her to the meetings given by her Grandfather. This is no Geftakys Fan-Club I would think she knew that when she signed-on. The Leader's knew of the abuse why did'nt they have her father arrested 20 years ago? Your blanket statement that we helped perpetrate the hurt/abuse is wrong when most of us did'nt know about it, and left when we confronted leadership about things that violated our consciences. If it gets too Toxic here and it does many people check-out, its not for everyone. Summer

I have often wondered why the culpability that leadership bears for any kind of on-going abuse or misconduct taking place in a church setting has ever been a debatable issue. You are right Summer. Most of us did not know just how bad things were. I had dinner last night with an old friend who left the Champaign group years before I did.
Everytime I talk to people formerly in leadership or semi-leadership poisitions about some of the things going on behind the scenes I feel like throwing-up. The insiders all knew what was going on. I know some of them would like to make the case about their blissful ignorance but that is bull...
I try to stay away from this issue. The people who have moved me to the greatest fury duirng my tenure here, were not the former leaders, but those making excuses and alabis for the failure of assembly leadership. If those charged with leadership responsibilities are not willing to deal with renegade conduct in their ranks, who will? Some of these same enablers have had the unmitigated temerity to try and lecture me about the discharge of my own spiritual responsibilites. That kind of arrogance and presumption still royally pisses me of like you cannot possibly imagine.
I will never understand an attitude that makes excuses for this kind of thing...never!
Verne

Someone sent me a very thoughtful message in which they said, essentially:

"We must never forget, or sweep under the rug what happened, otherwise the revisionists will soon have people saying it never happened."  They indicated that the BB served as a sort of memorial, and reminder of what happened.

I do agree that there needs to be a permanent record of the abuses that went on, and a clear description of who George is and how the whole group supported him and failed to hold him responsible.  I think that RickRoss and GA.com served this purpose very well.

I don't think the BB does this well, because in its current form, it is "stuck" in an unhealthy pattern.

The best threads are the one's that have nothing to do with the Assembly, but that challenge thinking.  The current "Deeper Life" discussion is a prime example of what is good about the BB. 

What's good about the BB?

Freedom of speech and thought
Opportunity to discuss Assembly issues

Whats not good?

Keeping the wounds open, and encouraging victimhood.
Being told what to say, think and feel in order to be perceived as "Christian."  This aspect is basically what we endured in the Assembly, is it not?

I have no problem with disagreement.  In fact, I encourage it.  What I find amazing is how certain people fall back on the "It's not Christian" argument when they don't agree with something.  (Like welfare, etc.)

Here's a great example:

Throughout the "welfare" debate, in which I was increasingly viewed in a negative light, and another person was seen as a sweet, weak, persecuted christian...well behind the scenes there was plenty of "unsweet" things being said...not by me.

The coup de gra was being wished a "happy judgement day," by this person. 

That's a perfect example of a person getting their victimhood bolstered and using it as an asset and proof of spiritual superiority.  When we were in the Assembly, we were spiritually superior, weren't we?  Now, many of us see ourselves victims of abuse, but still spiritually superior.

In other words, George abused us, but we bear little or no responsibility for our involvement----certainly we are less responsible than the leaders!  Our advanced spirituality remains intact,  even as we continually remind ourselves how we were wronged.  The point is that if we were spiritually advanced, we would have left earlier and/or done more to expose George.  That didn't happen in most cases, but now that it's over, we sure can denounce George and the leaders....ad infinitum.

Nuff said.

Brent

Warning----sarcastic statement to follow--please do not take the comparison seriously, just the example:


I like the post below. I've often thought the same of the Holocaust survivors. Why don't they see that they "allowed" themselves to be rounded up and put into the camps? Why didn't they do anything when they could have? All they do is blame the leaders, those awful SS guys, and repeat those same stories of abuse over and over again. Boy, now that it's all over they can sure blame and berate those who were in authority.

Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, all they do is talk about Hitler and what a bad guy he was. "I was the victim of
an evil man" they like to repeat over and over again. Why didn't they get out of Germany when they had the chance? Don't they realize that everyone is viewing them as "whiners"? It's been 60 years for Pete's sake!! Why can't they just get "over it"? It's so darn unhealthy! If they want to
talk about the Holocaust go to the Holocaust Museum. Don't use any regular forum to talk about
it---it's annoying to those who don't really believe it happened, or  perhaps side with Hitler. They think they are so "elite" because of what they suffered in those camps. Why can't they be more spiritual, and realize it's all over now, and just stop their whining. If they had just been more spiritual in the first place they never would have gotten caught up in it . It's their own fault
for going through all of that abuse. They need to stop blaming the system and start blaming them-
selves. What a bunch of babies.


I have made a statement by blowing things way out of proportion(Nazi's vs. Assembly) in a
sarcastic attempt to get a point accross. If I am lambasted for it, that's OK. I probably deserve
it.

--Joe

Not bad, not bad at all.

Should we ever forget the holocaust?  Never.

To make a subtle difference, let's compare the Holocaust survivors to a certain element of the black community in the US.  

The holocaust survivors went on to lead productive lives, and many of them helped to win Israel.  They were victims, and far from demanding a free ride from everyone, they made something from their lives.  I know a woman who was in Bergen Belsen, and have seen her tatoos.  There has been an attempt to unfreeze bank accounts, and have some art work returned, but all in all, the Jews have done well since the holocaust, but for the most part, they have not relied on their victim status as a means to gain.

Let's contrast that with the element of the black community that is pushing for reparations for slavery.  These people were born here, schooled here, and collected welfare here in the US.  While they may be subject to racist predjudice, they weren't slaves, and neither were their parents, yet they seek to inflate their victim status for personal gain.

I submit that the latter group is an example of an unhealthy victim.

Yes, remember the past.  But don't let your identity be defined and dictated by the past.  There is a future too, and I think that is more worthy of attention at times.

---

Here's another thought:

Do you know that 4 or five guards would make hundreds of Jews line up shoulder to shoulder in ranks, then have the first rank lie face down while a guard shot them in the head with a pistol?  The people stood by and obeyed, and watched this happen.

There are instances where the guard had to reload, or his gun jammed, and the people patiently waited for him to get squared away and resume excecuting them.  They didn't fight back, even though they had the guard totally outnumbered.  Think about that.

I can tell you this, if I have a choice between dying in a co-operative, prone position, or dying by fighting, I'm going to choose the latter.  Think about this.  It boggles the mind on many levels, not the least of which is spiritual.

Victims don't make good freedom fighters, neither do they defend themselves well.  They're victims, not victors.

I like the idea of a victor.  Victor's suffer, get into tight spots, even get set-backs and defeats...but they persevere and win in the end.  
Victims start out the same way, but give up and stay victims.

The Jews are not victims....while a certain element of the black population is making victim-hood a viable career.

So, you're not gettin  lambasted Joe.  I would rather see myself as a holocaust survivor, with a new nation, freshly won in a great victory.  My focus is on the future, and while I support holocaust memorials, and documentaries, I have a future to manage.

Brent

Most analogies break down after a while.  But I do see the parallels that Joe is pointing out.

Re. victim status - should not be a forever thing.  Not good for the victim.
Re. remembering the holocaust - the Geftakys museum is the website www.geftakysassembly.com

Funny thing is that our assembly past is what makes our commonality on this BB.  Most, if not all, regular posters is a former member of a Geftakys assembly even if that person was only there for 3 years compared to my 20+.

A bunch of us former members were out the other day and, though we were not pre-occupied with our assembly past, we could have some good laughs about it.

All of my closest friendships are with former members, even though I have now found a good church and have good friendships with some of them.

Just some thoughts on the matter,
Marcia

Sondra---

The point I was trying to make(though I realize the Holocaust compared to the Assembly is
a HUGE leap and I could probably choose a lesser example of abuse) is:  Should we label any
klind of survivor with the "victim mentality" label? Holocaust survivors still speak of their ex-
periences 60 years after the fact. Why? Many of them are still alive, and very fruitful, but as
they tell their stories it's as if no time has passed at all---they well up with tears when recounting
what happened to them.

I am not saying we need to daily moan and relive these things over and over again. I just
feel that they will always be part of us. It is wrong to lead someone into self-retrospection
about the past so that they are continually the victim---but I feel it is also wrong to make
someone feel guilty for talking about the past abuse, and tell them they need to "get over
it". How do we know where they are emotionally? They may need to talk about it at this
point. And a forum may be the only place they have to go and talk to "live" people who
are posting. They can go to a museum(like the AB.com) and read stories, but they may
have a need to speak with people who have gone through what they are trying to get
past.  I notice that day by day there are always new members and guests--how do I know
what they are going through? Some of us have had the time to work through a lot of it--
but should I dissuade them from recounting the abuse they suffered? Perhaps they have
just worked up the nerve to post for the first time. I saw this happen just recently.

Next time I won't use the Hitler analogy--that was pretty far-flung.

--Joe

Brent---

Good points. I hadn't thought about the fact that some do use "victim" status
for gain--that indeed is very unhealthy. Good discussion.

Thanks,Joe

Yes, it is a very good discussion.

There will always be another George, and another Assembly. 

Here's what I want to contribute to the fight against that sort of thing:

1.)Define the false teaching and abuse that goes on, and the sick dynamics that enable a person like George.
2.)Get people to face facts, and take action
3.)Expose and defeat the leaders who are doing this
4.)See people recover and heal
5.)Do what I can to see that it doesn't happen again within my sphere of influence.

This is NOT the message I want to send:

1,2,3 from above coupled with,  "You will never get over this.  You should be angry, distrustful, dissatisfied and bitter for the rest of your life.  Look at me!  Look how fixated I am on all of this.  Praise the Lord!"

I want to demonstrate that a person can come through it, learn, recover, and be a better person as a result.  I smile and laugh way more now than I used to.  Life is better now, so why should I continue to dwell on how bad it was?

More Beatles and politics, less George and Betty.

I think it's Great Joe is able to really laugh about the whole experience, its refreshing. There will always be people like GG who are counting on " a sucker born every minute" and "there's no fool like an old fool" . Yet we are all responsible for each person we invited out who stayed long after we left, who went astray. And for every dime we put into the box to finance GG's affairs and world travel. And God can and will forgive!  Summer p.s. Verne those brothers were trying to "Keep the Unity" and stay in one accord. (ha)

Brent---

You're right about that---we can never have enough of the Beatles--

It's gettin' better all the ti-i-ime.. better, better, bet-ter. getting so much
better all the time.

Good to talk with you Sondra. Happy trails...
Verne

Sondra,

I think most agree that the Jewish Holocaust as an analogy can only be taken so far; that is the nature of analogies.

While Verne's comments about leaders do sound like a broken record, they are valid IMO.

You said, "...I don't think people will heal who post here."
I disagree!!

You also said, "I am barely tolerated on this board because I represent change.  I share real, spiritual solutions and it is as if I hadn't said a word."
I am not sure all that you meant with that comment.  If you are referring to the lack of participation on topics you are discussing, then it is only because you prefer to have a focussed discussion.  As far as the discussion itself, it was repeated stated that we were enjoying the discussion.

Got to go.
Marcia

 

Sounds good to  me. Apparently there was some awful things going on in Champaingn that I did not even know about and which involved people that I knew. I don't need to share any details, and I agree with Brent's agenda above; we all want to look to the future, but do pardon me while I express my outrage and disgust for dogs that allow criminals to prey on children...you don't know the half of it folks... :'(
Verne

I was enjoying the discussion, and I was quite happy about how it was conducted.  I am quite surprised by your abrupt exit, Sondra. 

As for Verne's comments, we are use to them.   Marcia said it well.

You made some pretty strong appeals to have little or no outside participation in the thread you were on with Verne, and we all respected that.  You had wide readership and interest, so I don't agree with the statement that you are barely tolerated.  To the contrary, you were right in the thick of things for the last week or two.

I will miss you.

Brent

Brent asked what the poison I saw here was so here it is.
   Summer was right and I was hurt and angry when I last posted. I do intend to stop participating on this BB. Summer was also right when she said I should have known this wasn’t a Geftakys fan club when I signed on. And I did know that. As a matter of fact the first post I read was Some News About David Geftakys where I read about my dad being put threw the sarcastic ringer for his feeble attempt to finally become an independent adult. If anyone here has a dad they are not to proud of you know that hearing him mocked when you finally thought you could be just a little proud of him can break your heart all over again. The words written in that post were poison to me because they took that little sprout of hope and stepped on it.
   But lets move on. Poison on this BB is in the continued pitty party of victims  that surface from time to time. These threads don’t help anyone feel better. They validate ones feelings of sorrow over their mistakes and lost years and remind one that they have something to feel sorry for themselves over. But on 2 more personal levels for me. I am a Geftakys. My brother is a Geftakys. The three Geftakys men that coned and deceived so many put a mark on my family name. But what hurts is the reference to “the Geftakys’”. We are not all bad. Most of us are good people. As a child my life was picked apart, always under the microscope. A lot of you were the ones looking threw that microscope. So it pisses me off to still see the microscope on us in a way. Generalization of the Geftakys’ HURTS! Like Bluejay said
“Title: Attributes of a Male Geftakys

1. Living a Lie and Mooching Off Others

2. How to Treat Women Like Second Class Citizens

3. Why a Geftakys Looks Good In an Orange Prison Jumpsuit”
A blanket remark that includes my brother. Well think about what your saying. I don’t care how long ago it was written. It was put out there and I read it 2 years later and it still HURT. For me, when I read the bashing it is poison because it opens the wound of a broken family which I have managed to numb. It makes me angry and I don’t like to be angry. The anger at the person who wrote the comint that hurt me then reminds me of the bottomless rage I feel toward my dad and grandpa. I call it poison because the anger spreads and starts to pull me back to the angry victim I used to be.
   The second poison I see here is also personal. Threw  this BB my sister met a man and eventually cut ties to her family abruptly and moved to Florida to be with him. She received encouragement from people she met or reconnected with here. I came here to see what clues I could find to why Rachel did what she did because I couldn’t get the straight story from her. I didn’t find the answers here. I don’t say that this BB was to blame for Rachel’s choices but I know that she is not well and that she met and was influenced by others that were not well. One who was poisoned can not give good counsel to another who is poisoned. The trouble is that they are more likely to seek counsel from each other.
   I am no longer a part of the Assembly. I no longer speak to my uncial, grandfather or dad. I will never again welcome communication with the leaders of that group. The Assembly and everything that came with it was poison and the only way to heal is to cut the poison out. Rachel didn’t and it consumed her. I will not have that happen to me. Because of that I have found that I need to no longer participate in this BB which caries with it lingering bites of that poison that I am not strong enough to withstand. This may not be so for others but it is for me. Just as I will not sit in groups to talk about my mental illness, I will not keep reopening the wounds of my childhood here. So When I say “get over it” I mean move on. Let the past be the past. At least for me I find it best to turn from grudges, be they legitimate or not, start walking away and not look back. And as I said before, I do wish you all the best in your healing. That’s it for me. Please consider letting my family rest. Don’t forgive George or David or Tim if you don’t want to. I haven’t. But before you lay to much out there to be read remember who is watching and whose heart it may touch.  I hope my mom and brother never have to read most of what I have found here.  Good bye.
Rebecca

Wow CAGirl I do empathize with you. Please forgive me if I hurt you in any of my posts. We do get a little carried away with the dynamics of the board and may be insensitive at times. I'm sorry to hear about your sister and hope you reconcile with her A.S.A.P. she will be in my prayers along with you and your brother. Maybe somewhere down the road you can release/forgive your Dad, Uncle, and Grandfather and a huge weight will be lifted off of you, no-one is worth the burden. Yes the assm was a large fish-bowl, so your privacy has definitly been invaded over and over agian. When I was in the assm people practically worshipped the ground your family walked on. But you seem to be a real spit-fire (I mean that as a compliment to your strengh), and I hope God Blesses and Heals You!    Summer.

I am so deeply sorry about this Rebecca. I did not know that his  had happened.



I know I have been pretty hard on your grandpa as well as your Dad and to a lesser extent your uncle. I understand how the familial relationship makes you particularly sensitive to such criticism and I do sincerely apologise if anything I said has hurt you personally. That is not my intention and I regret it if that did happen. I know in some sense I sometimes over-react because I cannot comprehend the incredible SILENCE that obtained while these horrific things were going on.
There has to be balance.
Your grandfather was able to do what he did because people stopped talking about his prior failures and indiscretions.
This permitted him to again prey on countless others who were unaware of his history.
Perhaps you are right that a BB like this in no place for one so closely affected.
I do not know if a time will ever come when all that happened in the assemblies will be entirely forgotten.
I am not sure that it should. God bless you, my friend.  I can tell you that He is faithful.
Verne

Verne, You've again hit the nail on the head with the Incredible SILENCE ! Because anyone who spoke up better of had their bags packed with one foot out the door, many knew this, and knew to question meant being quickly de-moted. You'd certainly be raising the roof! So most quietly left and things went on.....Summer.

Oh yes! Muzzles were part and parcel of the accoutrements of some assembly leaders.
I am always a bit surprised that despite the fact that we have left that era behind, there are still some folk with the mistaken notion that they have a right to tell others not only what to say, but also how and when to say it. I guess that is the natural consequence of seeing everyone around you as an infant. Remember how assembly mothers were taught to silence their children by near suffocation?
Verne

That was for the coming persecution Verne...what hog-wash!

Dear CAGirl,

I am truly sorry for all the hurt you have suffered. :'(

This thread was inactive for over a year, and at the time we were all clear that the comments were specifically directed to the 3 Geftakys adult male leaders.

I am also sorry to hear of your sister's choice to connect with someone from this BB.  Possibly it may have happened through some other means, but unfortunately it came via this BB. :(

Thank you for your openness and for sharing your concerns with us.
God bless you for your choice to not allow your past enslave you.  I have been attending a women's Bible Study by Beth Moore Breaking Free and find it relevant to what I experienced as an assembly member.  I recommend the series to all former assembly folk.

God bless,
Marcia

I probably ought not to be overly concerned about this, but I would like to express my own regret over the term recently used about whom I can only assume are some female posters of the BB. To call someone a "groupie" is to conjure up images of that which is promiscuous and slatternly, a characterization certainly not befitting any of the sisters participating on the BB. It was unspeakably vulgar and crude and I want to aplogise to those of you who might have taken offense. I generally wait a bit longer to bring up something like this but decided not to wait.
Verne

Verne, I see Chivalry is not dead!  Summer. p.s. did I miss anything good this week? Just kidding. I noticed your book, would like to comment on it when you come back from break have a good one! I do think Margaret was right with all the fighting it's difficult to carry on a conversation alot of junk to sift through, alot of verbal abuse that I'm sure many do not want to bring into their spirit. Peace! p.p.s. Your comment on the law of love being discusseed should be good "speaking the truth in Love" goes along way, and fulfills the royal command "love your neighbor as yourself" on this hang all the law and the prohets with the first loving God of course.

Good to see you back Summer.
I was stunned that a comment like that could be made in polite Christian society.
I was even more surprised that everyone ignored it.




You have said the most important thing to date about the subject. There is great beauty in simplicity.  :)
Verne

I, too, was impressed with this post.

Looks like I chose the right person to follow.

There are few things of greater beauty in God's creation than a Christian woman of dignity and grace.
Referring to a sisters in Christ as  "groupies", soley for the purpose of hurling an invective is not consistent with common decency, to say nothing of Christian character.
Based on his conduct, this is apparently exactly the way George Geftakys thought.
Verne

Polite Christian Society ? No, we have many of various faiths and some with no faith at all the Atheists, the Unitarians, I think even some Catholics, Reformers, etc. and other various strange lurkers some who are Legalists, and others who are very Liberal really runs the Religious gambit. That's why so few ever agree, but can get hilarious!  Summer.

Pardon me...my mistake... :)
Verne