AssemblyBoard

I have used the name BlueJay the past month since logging onto the BB.  This is simply out of respect to my mom, who was involved in the assembly for 27 years and very hurt by what has recently transpired.

 I was involved with the assembly in Omaha, Neb. from the time I was two years old.  My mother started attending there sometime in approx. 1976.  I was the oldest of three children who attended the assembly every Sunday, Wed and probably 75% of the extra cirricular assembly events...Ie. fellowships, special meetings, brothers meetings, etc.  My saving grace was that my dad allowed my mom, myself and my siblings  to be a part of the assembly, but did not attend himself.  
I was one of the oldest children growing up in the assembly.  I detested attending, but realized this was not a battle I was going to win as my dad backed my mom up.  Therefore, I tried to make the best of this situation.  Don't get me wrong, there were many nice people in the assembly, but I can remember back as being 5 years old and realizing that this was definitely a lot more weird than anything else my fellow classmates were going involved in.

My whole outlook changed on assembly life about the end of my junior year in high school.  At the midwest seminar in Champagne, I decided that I needed God and wanted to walk with the Lord.  I am sure that it was just a situation of surrendering to being beaten over the head with something for so long.  Anyway, I began to have a strong "walk" until about the end of my senior year where I for whatever reason got distracted and left fellowship for about two months.  The following August, the month before I was to leave before my senior year in college, I got scared and for whatever reason decided to jump back on board with the assembly.  This time, though, I dived head first into it.  At the urging of Omaha's leaders, I cut all ties with my lifelong buddies.  I was encouraged/told that the only time I needed to see them was at assembly functions or if it were an oppurtunity where I was going to witness to them.  

The college I attended my freshmen year was about 20 minutes away from the assembly in Norfolk, Ne.  When I had left the assembly for that two month period I had changed my college choice to get as far away from the assembly as possible...I apparently had forgot about Norfolk.  Anyway, at this point, being all gung ho about assembly life and my walk with the Lord, I was thankful that Norfolk was there.  Charlie Mather and his family were exceptionally good to me, and I will never, ever forget that!  I was the only assemblyite on campus, but in a short period we had a campus Chapter Summary Bible Study going, had guest speakers such as Mike Zach coming to talk, had groups of people driving down to Omaha to here George speak, people attending the campus confernce...The whole works!!!  I was on fire for the Lord and life was just dandy.  All fall I had saved every penny I had to be able to attend the Seminar in Fullerton.  Between a plane ticket and a few weeks out there, it was going to be a hefty penny for a college student!

Before I go into  my  why Tim Geftakys is synomyous with Satan phase, I need to make a few remarks about my dad.  I mentioned that my parents are married, however my mom was involved with the assembly but my dad was not.  My dad and I were always and still are the best of friends and vey close.  I think my dad thought I was half nuts for becoming an assembly clone, but for the most part, it really didn't change our relationship.  At this point, in my life, I was a freshman away from home,  scared to death of making friends on campus based on the fact that I was the only assemblyite there, and very lonely.   I was probably dependent on the friendship of my parents at this time more than any time in my life.  My dad was not and never was an evil man.  He simply was just was highly educated and chose not to get involved with the ways of the assembly.

So anyway, I save every penny I have that fall and  go to California (Dec 1992) to attend the Fullerton Winter seminar, very excited about the fact that a few of my close assembly friends my age were going to be there and excited to be amongst "God's people for a week".  It was here I had my first real experience with the everso "Godly" Tim Geftakys.

For whatever reason, a few of us took a trip to the assembly in San Diego.  I think Tim must have been preaching down there.  I think it was the week before the midwest seminar...Anyway, I got invited to go down there with a group and thought that would be great!  We get down there, and I can't remember how it happened...All I know is that I ended up in a room alone with Tim Geftakys and he told me that he would never have any respect for me as a Christian until I severed my relationship with my dad.  Now, if my dad were to come into fellowship, that would be a differnt story.  "Sometimes we have to take a stand" he told me.

I was devastated.  Here I am X amount of miles away from home, and the heir to the throne of the Geftakys is telling me to sever my relationship with my dad.   I didn't argue with him, but I could tell that he was less than thrilled with my response.  I left San Diego 120% confused and distressed.

Meanwhile, while on this trip to California, the people my age who I was most close to began to treat me like I was the black plague.  I was to naive to put two and two together.  The fact that my friends ie. brothers and sisters  that I was so close to were treating me in this manner was very upsetting and hurtful.  I would find out years later that Tim Geftakys told these people to be careful of me, questioned my motives as a person and as a Christian.  To this day I don't know what exactly was said, but I have at least one witness that will verify that this account.  It was the most bizarre and hurtful experience of my life.

I went back to Omaha a broken young man.  My close assembly friends for some reason wanted no part of me, and I was supposed to sever my relationship with my dad.   I left fellowship for good shortly thereafter. I was back in Omaha for a Sunday worship, and just got up in the middle and left. I felt so guilty.  I truly felt like I was choosing my dad over the Lord.  It took me over a year to clear my head.  

The bottom line is this, Tim Geftakys is not a man of God.  Think about it, when talking to this poor excuse of a human being, what about him reflects the Joy of God.  Is God arrogant?  Is God divisive?  It took me about six months (for fear of ramifiactions)  to talk to my dad about Tims counsel, and immediately I can remember my dad telling me about an incident he had with Tim about 10 years prior when Tim was in Omaha to preach and my mom talked my dad into coming out.  

Brief Summation:
Tim asked my dad what he was up to.  My dad informed Tim that he was busy working on his Ph.D.  Tim then informed my dad that he would be nothing but "phenomanally dumb" until he got involved with "this ministry"....Yet another example of Tim's "tactfulness".

The fact of the matter is this, I am over the friendships that Tim sabotaged...It took about six months to get over that...However, one does not mess with my family.  It is an extrmely important thing to me. I value my family in a huge way. I shudder when I think of what would have happened if I had taken Tim's counsel....How devastated my dad would have been, how devastating it would have been for me, how it would have torn apart my family...Lets face the fact, my little brother who was in high schol had dropped out of fellowship, so I guess I would have had to sever ties with him to.

There was really no sense in talking to anyone about this.  If I were to tell my friends, that would have said we told you that place was a nuthouse.  If I would have told any of the saints, I would have been hammered against speaking out against a leading brother.

The reality of the situation is as such. Tim Geftakys is not about God.  Tim Geftakys is about power.  Tim like the fact that he had the authority to potentially wreck families and peoples lives.  It makes him feel like a man.  He gives counsel that in turns wrecks peoples lives, so they have no one to turn to but the assembly...This in turn feeds his, his brothers, and his dads pocket books.

So in my postings, if it seems that I have personally attacked Tim, its because I have.  Its ten years of frustration and being extremely confused spiritually.  I spent 17 years of my life in this place, and knew no other way. I always suspected this ministry was a sham, but until this website exposed the truth, always just gave them the benefit of the doubt as far as their sincerity.  The flip side is that after being involved for so long, that it was impossible for me to be involved with other churches.  The feelings of guilt that attending a church would bring would make me physically ill.

I will gladly take a lie detector test to back these claims up...With this being said, as far as I am concerned, there should be a tremendous uprising against the Geftakys.  They need to be punished.  Exposure is not enough.  If Tim were truly sorry, he would pay back every penny that he had taken from this ministry..Even if that meant selling his house and giving up his cush lifestyle.  He claims he knew nothing of his brothers abusive ways, he tried to wreck families, and he laughed all the way to the bank...Come on people....Wake up!!!

The short of it is, they have committed the crime and they should do the time!  Aside from being a family of adulters, they are thieves and should be dealt with accordingly.

Sincerely,

Bob Franzese
AKA: BlueJay

Omaha, Nebraska

Dear Bluejay:

All this time I thought you were female!  That just goes to show how careful I must be when thinking I know someone from cyberspace alone.

I have a number of stories about Tim, similiar to yours, some worse.  Sadly, most people didn't want to post them when it mattered, or they were not verifiable with two or three witnesses, so I could not post them.

As you know, Tim has been asked to "step back up and Lead," what is left of the Assembly in Fullerton.  Some people will never learn.

Exposure is all we can do, unless there is a legal case we can pursue.  Even so, there are still people naive enough to follow these men, and listen to their teaching.

I think the reason I come across so strong on the BB is because I have thousands of emails and telephone calls from members, ex-members, concerned parents, etc.  There is no question that these Geftakys's are a uniquely wicked family.  That's why I get so heated up when it sounds like someone is using geftakys-speak to defend them!

I am glad you are here,

Brent

Brent

Thanks for your support.

The reason it will be hard to verify issues with Tim Geftakys is that he is a snake...He knows that one on one conversations end up their word vs. his word. He also knows how to indirectly sabotage people.

Tim Geftakys is a cultist and a loser who is incapable of holding a real job. To Those people who wish to follow him, don't drink the fruit punch!

Tim Geftakys must be brought to his knees.  People must have the courage to fully expose him and his wicked ways.  

Bobby!

Do I have a story to tell!   :D

If you recall, we met in Ohma shortly before you left the Assembly.  I had come from a Canadian Assembly to visit Omaha.  We played basketball together, went to lunch, and we sent a few letters back and forth.

Suddenly, I was told that you had "left the Lord" because you had made decisions that were against the Lord's will.  When I tried to press for more information, I was told that you put sports and your unsaved friends before your relationship with God.  I was also told that you had a big fight with the leadership and that you had "left the Assembly on bad terms and needed to make things right with the leadership."  You (like many who decide to leave the Assembly) were looked down on as a bit of a lost cause, but--this is the really neat part--I prayed at that time for you and that I would be able to get in contact with you once again.  So my prayer has been answered 10 years later!

Thank you for sharing what you have shared.  I believe it is far more affective then your many posts that dig at Tim.  I am sorry about what you have gone through and I can relate to a certain degree.  The Assembly interpreted the words of Jesus--about "hating" your family members--too literally and did not encourage close family relationships with unsaved/wordly family members.  Sady, this teaching negatively affected some families throughout the Assemblies.  

One of the biggest crimes of Assembly teaching was the undercurrent of the teachings imply that you were not a true Christian/in the light/in God's will unless you followed what the Assembly said was God's will, that is, you "submitted to the leadership" and got "approval/permission" from them.  This implies if one leaves the Assembly they are settling for "less than the Lord's best," the person has fallen away, etc.  I don't believe that this is true at all because people have left the Assembly to go to other churches, etc.  Besides, people need to follow what God's will is for them, not what other people say is God's will.  Thankfully, I had been to many churches before the Assembly and I believed that it was my responsibility to interpret the Scriptures myself and discover God's will for my own life; thus, when I left I did not feel many of the guilty feelings many members go through because I did all that I could to leave on good terms.  But, from what I have been reading here and elsewhere, I was one of the rare people who did not have major post-Assembly problems about feeling out of God's will, etc.  Sorry to hear that you had a hard time after you left.  I hope you are doing better now.

Another thing that was a problem about some (and again I say "some") of the workers' tactics in the Assembly is talking about people to try to affect other people's opinions about them.  "So-and-so is not a good brother or sister because..."  I have also heard of workers talking about which brother or sister would not be recommended for marriage.  I also heard that M****, the first Assembly missionary to China, a person we had prayed for every Tuesday at the Prayer Meetings, was "not a good brother."  When I asked why, I was told that he did not submit to a worker that came to China about 7 months after him.  One sister was interested in him but was told he was not a good brother to marry.  When I met Brother M****, I found him to be very friendly and open.  We talked about a variety of subjects and he never said anything bad about the leadership to me on the few occasions we talked.  When I asked him about not submitting to the worker who came to China after him, he said that he recommended that she not do certain things that she wanted to do because he knew Chinese culture better than her and that you have to be very careful about what you did in a different culture.  However, in the Assembly, it is "not a democracy" so I can understand why he became a "bad brother" simply because he did not go along with what a worker wanted to do.  There are always two or more sides to every story and I am so glad I was able to hear yours after all these years!  

Take care!  Nice to be in contact with you again!

It seems obvious to me that most people that left the assembly system before this website went up did so as a result of one or more traumatic experiences (usually involving the leadership).  The emotional trauma caused them to gradually question the validity of their commitment and to eventually decide to leave.  When they left they still suffered emotional stress due to their assembly experience.

Speaking for myself, I can say that the website has provided the opportunity to see the ugliness of the assembly system without having to experience the kinds of things that you (and MANY others) did.  Those of us who started reading the website after GG's excommunication had it so easy.  We were told by the leadership (in SLO at least) that the website would be used for healing.  That meant we could read the site without having to fear their slander.  Though it was traumatic for me to read and assimilate the information, it took 2 weeks for me to proceed from being totally committed to the assembly to being happy after having left.  This is not to say that I will not have discouraging days ahead, but I know I had it easy compared to others like you.

Perhaps this post belongs on the "Can anything good come out of this BB" thread, but I thought of this while reading your post.

Perhaps others will read your story and be freed as I have.  Thank you for your candor.  It may not seem like you're doing much, but your posts are helping others avoid suffering more pain than they have to.

Jack

I never knew, Bobby...  This makes me angry all over again.  That anyone in that God-forsaken place would make the and child feel as though they could never measure up and then have the audacity to a.  root family members against one another and / or b.  say anything against Dr. Bob Franzese's  level of intelligence is absolutely ludicrous!!  Other than Mark S, did anyone in leadership in the assembly in Omaha even have a college degree???  Moreso, did any one of them have any professional training in counseling?  This is so sickening.  

In a recent conversation with my dad regarding the downfall of the Assembly, he told me that he will always have a hard time respecting people in positions of leadership in the church who aren't as accomplished as he is.  This perspective was so confusing and wrong to me b/c I believe that the Lord can use all sorts of people from all sorts of walks of life.  Now, however, I completely understand why he would have this perspective.  His family was for may years completely wrapped up in and dictated by the beliefs of those in the assembly.  Then, to be told by an uneducated, pompous, arrogant, jerk that he would be 'phenomanally dumb' until he got involved in their ministry...I can only imagine the sour taste that this has left in my father's mouth for all these years.  

And, you should be aware that if I were my dad, I would be dancing in the streets shouting "I told you so!" at everyone who had ever been involved in the Assembly.  Is he?  No.  He is not "glad" that the Assembly has fallen.  He is not rejoicing or acting arrogant b/c he was 'right' to not get involved all these years.  It's amazing who comes out in the end as being more Christlike, isn't it?

THAT PLACE IS NOT GOD.  GOD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TIM G. OR GEORGE G. OR ANYONE WHO FOLLOWS THEM NOW.  THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THIS:  THOSE WHO FOLLOW TIM G. AND / OR GEORGE G. OR ANYONE ELSE IN THAT SICK, WARPED, UNGODLY PLACE IS 'PHENOMANALLY DUMB.  THANK GOD OMAHA HAS DISBANDED.  MAY GOD HEAL THE BROKEN SPIRITS OF EVERYONE THAT HAS BEEN AFFECTED BY THE EVIL OF THE ASSEMBLY AND SOMEHOW SHOW THEM THE TRUTH.  I PRAY THAT HE WILL FORGIVE THOSE OF US WHO PORTRAYED OURSELVES AS BEING CHRISTIANS ALL THE WHILE RUINING THE PERSPECTIVE OF CHRISITIANTY FOR EVERY NON-BELIEVER WITH WHOM WE CAME IN CONTACT.  PLEASE GOD, REGAIN A HOLD IN THE LIVES THAT HAVE BEEN SO RUINED BY SUCH WICKEDNESS AND IN JESUS NAME WILL YOU ONCE AGAIN SET THEIR HEARTS ON FIRE FOR YOU!!!

I have a funny story about M****  In the home I lived in we found M***** to be very uptight and legalistic.  We could not have even the most causual conversation with him because we would get rebuked.  One night I came home from work with a (God forbid) Christamas present.  And on top of that It was a bottle of wine!  A brother and I decided to sample it and began to kill it when M**** came to the door! CRASH BANG SLAM SWOOSH CRASH AS WE Hurried to hide the evidence.  "HI MARTY!" "HOWS IT GOING! :P :P :P :P ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

One thing I want to point on before I go on vacation for the weekend...I left a lot out of my account of my dealings with Tim Geftakys...The only reason for this was that there apparently is only so much space where you can post...I tried to post my whole account several times but couldn't as the computer told me that an error had occurred but my message was to long.

One thing that is important for me to point out...When I left fellowship, I had zero animosity towards the Omaha saints.  It was agitating that for a while every time I bumped into an Omaha assemblyite  they would read me the riot act and look at me with great despair, but with that being said, I had grown up in the assembly and had developed good relationships with people.  I know that it hurt them when I left with no explanation, but I had to do what I had to do.   The bottom line is it wouldn't have made any sense to give an account of my dealings with Tim G...I would have been bad mouthing the leadership.  Never once did I bad mouth the leadership to anyone. I left without telling anyone with the exception of my mom why I left, not even my younger siblings.  Keep in mind, at the time, I was so screwed up that I thought I was choosing my dad over God!!!

I really appreciated the  people of the Omaha's assemblies efforts in helping move my parents move to Oklahoma.  One thing that can be said about the non -hierarchy of the assemblies is that generally they are nice caring people with no hidden agenda who only want to serve God.  Its not their fault that George, Tim and David are a bunch of horses crevices.

Anyway, I do have a great idea for an outreach...As soon as George, Tim, and David (and it will be sooner than later) all get sentenced to federal prison, we should arrange a mass group of former assemblyites to go visit them...Do they make prison outfits large enough to fit Tim???

Bluejay,
Thank you for sharing what you went through with Tim telling you to sever your relationship with your father.
It was just plain evil for him to tell you that.
I think your Father is a very good husband, dad and Christian to patiently endure seeing satan trying to split his family up. God blessed you with a father of great character.
 I hope you choose  not to let this wrong done to you bogg you down but rather build in you determination  to be the best you can be.
  Sincerely, Mark Kisla
 PS. You got a great sense of humor

Bluejay,

  Your comment about feeling sick in church really hit home for me. When I first got out, I kept going to church a lot and reading the Bible. I guess my spiritual pride (I'm wearing a dress; look how disrespectful these women in jeans are.) insulated me for a while. Soon, though, I could hardly open the Bible without being attacked by twisted scriptures. Pastors would innocently mention words like, "the cross," and all of the Assembly connotation would come back. And it all, the Bible, the church, prayer, it all spoke condemnation because I was standing against "God's people," the Assembly. Every word, every idea, every doctrine in Christianity was subtley twisted in a way that pushed me back toward obedience to the Assembly. I remember writing in my journal what a horrible, horrible thing it was to poison the Bible, the church, God for people. God have mercy on us for spreading the poison and on those above us for enslaving us to a false god. And may God heal the little ones we've stumbled. . .
  Actually, that was my first reason for leaving: I saw that we were stumbling God's little ones; it took a lot longer and a lot more humility for me to realize I'd been a victim too.

  Heather

Hi everybody

I noticed that TimG and his long-time family helper, Peg Magou, just registered on the BB.

Hi Tim

How is work going?  What are you up to?  Are you going to any churches in your area?  Just curious

Suzie

vbeers wrote,

" THANK GOD OMAHA HAS DISBANDED"

Is this true???   Has the Omaha assembly stopped meeting?

Tom Maddux

Actually, they are taking the 6 week challenge. After that, who knows?

hey bob! remember me? its been a while...


if i remember this correctly, i was staying in the same room as you when this happened, along with tim smith, enoch and a few others. we were in dan notte's house. i remember you being very sad and anxious that weekend, but i never knew what was causing it exactly. i remember thinking it had something to do with close friends you had that were shutting you out, but since i wasn't close with them either i really didn't know what was going on. i was busy quietly observing all i could and analyzing the situation madly - my preferred mode of operation when dealing with my own confusion and anxiety, which there was plenty of even by that point in my life. i wish i could have been a better friend to you, but i most likely wouldn't really have known how to be that at that point in my life, even if i had known the whole story. *sigh* well, i am glad you made it out, and with your family bond intact! hopefully your honesty in expressing the psychological strain you were subjected to will continue to help color in the details of a realistic picture of what the assembly has been, and what patterns of behavior enabeled it to become that, especially for those who are still choosing those dysfuntional relationships for their own lives. the level of denial some folks still seem determined to live in, and the desire these people are displaying for someone to control their spiritual lives, makes me think sadly of the word "institutionalized".  :(

Bluejay was luckier than many. The remarkable number of familial relationships shredded by the anti-family rhetoric of the Geftakys clan is probably the most under-reported aspect of this sad saga; I saw it first hand and had several friends whose families were devastated by this kind of viciousness. I was shaking my head in wonder as I read Bluejay's post...there are still people posting on this website that contend these people are "The Lord's servant" and upbraid others for speaking the truth...
Verne

     Grace to you, and peace, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

     Wow!  i think Brian hit the nail on the head with the term "Institutionalized!"

     i want to share with you a part of my testimony that i haven't posted before:

     Most of the people now on the BB have no idea what the assembly in Fullerton was like in the 1970s.
     Almost everyone in the assembly was under 30, most in their early 20s.  All the children were very small.  Mat-training was a perfected art.  There were no problems of rebellion.  Everything was orderly.  The deception that this was the true picture on earth of the Bride of Christ was nearly perfect.  At least it was so much so that when a trace of reality appeared, we could sweep it under the edge of the rug and pretend it wasn't there.
     Looking back, i can see so many clues that we neglected.
Once, when GG was about to leave on one of his journeys, he had very strongly stressed a doctrinal point in ministry.  Upon his return, two or three months later, he strongly taught the exact opposite of what he had previously said.  Amongst a couple of the other LBs, i wondered aloud about it.  Mark Miller looked me in the eye and said "So what?!"  And that was that.
     That was how all inconsistencies were handled.  Occasionally a visitor or newcomer would dissent and leave, but the regulars accepted the party line unquestioningly.  We were as zombies:  we walked through all the appearances of normal people, but we had disconnected all of our warning lights.  
     We COULD HAVE seen that we were on a collision course with disaster, but we wore blinders.  Having eyes, we saw not;  having ears, we heard not.  We accepted utter weirdness as the status quo.

     i especially want to emphasize this to the saints who are leaders on the BB today:  
     Our experience in the 1970s was VERY different than what happened in later years.  As the assemblies and the work grew, there were many more people involved, who were of varying backgrounds and ages, with families of different inclinations and sizes.
     As the numbers increased, so did the variables, and thus the numbers of ways that things could slip out of hand.
     To those whose positions and fortunes depended upon consistency, this meant a necessity for more and harsher controls.  In the early years, we delighted in calling each other Brother and Sister-- later on it became mandatory.  Many things became mandatory that had once been considered privileges.  Practices and order that had once been maintained through a sort of idiotic trust became the subjects of strict and severe discipline.  Shepherds became Storm Troopers.

     Some, like my family, have been gone for over 20 years.  Many who have left recently had not even shown up when we had departed.  Some had not yet been born.  Our experiences are VERY different.  i stress this for a reason:

     i was brutalized, yes.  But i did not know it at the time!  When i left, it was because i was no longer fit for service.  
i was burnt out from trying to perform the responsibilities of a worker, LB, house leader, head of a family of six, and employment at a fulltime vocation.  i was exhausted and my health was deteriorated.  And i was cast off like a worn out shoe.
     My family and i were quarantined-- no one was permitted to have contact with us.  We left as failures to the Lord and to his work.  And we were sent every new issue of the T&T to remind us of our shortcomings.
    i wasn't bitter.  Know why?  Because everything about the assembly was right, and everything about me was wrong.  GG & co. were godly-- i was not.  Hey, i believed it!  For years!  i was unfit for Christian service anywhere.

     Did i indicate that there would be a point to all this?  Well here it is:  
     i (we) have had years to recover.  i only recently discovered how truly heinous the crimes against us were.  But to us they're ancient history!  We've had time to get over it, outgrow it, recovery from it.  Many of us never personally saw the Geftakys's & their cronies as evil people, because they were still in the closet when we left.  
     We never had reason to be angry.  We skipped that phase.  By the time we learned of something to be angry about, it was too late.  Those of you more recently harmed probably can't conceive of what i'm telling you.  Some among us still haven't realized that those wonderful people we were so devoted to following were gargoyles dressed as saints.

     So i'm asking you all, on behalf of all of us who are "different," be patient with us.  If someone pops up on the BB & pops off about your anger & hostility, tolerate us.  
i now understand the reason you are angry, and i respect your feelings.  But some of us still don't get it.  You can't understand why?  That's OK...  But try to accept us as we are--  we haven't all seen what you've seen;  felt what you've suffered.
     Some of us really do have peace in our hearts.  Don't resent us for that.  Continue, as you have, to reveal the truth to us, pray for us, and try to bear with us.  We're all in the same boat--  let's keep it a fellow-ship.

God grant us all that we may see
our next step in following him.

al Hartman

Al!
I am shouting the victory as I read your last post. Thank you for your candor brother...
THIS IS THE LESSON THE LORD WOULD HAVE US ALL LEARN!!!!!!!!!!!
Verne

Greetings Al and everyone:
 Thank you for what you have shared and how you shared it!
Sebastian Andrew

 



G'day, mates!  
God help us all to know
the richness and fulness of his blessings!

     Many of you are too young to remember when the US was fighting in Viet Nam.  Americans at home were horrified as the world press revealed that some of our troops were annihilating entire villages, including women and children.  There are some comparisons and contrasts between that scenario and the present spiritual warfare in which you and i are engaged.

     American GIs didn't know who was and who was not their enemy.  There were a gazillion people, all much smaller than the average american, all dressed as civilians, all either smiling or looking at the ground, and some of whom had explosives taped around their bodies, under their loose-fitting clothes.  Men, women and small children would walk in among our service personnel, in camp or in town, and suddenly blow up themselves and everyone around them.  Some Vietnamese were looking to the USA for help, while others wanted to kill and maim as many Americans as they could.  There was no simple protection for anyone.

     In spiritual warfare also, the sides aren't always apparent.  Satan can appear as an angel of light.  "Shepherds" can preach and teach a compelling gospel, even while their hands are busy shearing the flock and preparing mutton stew.  But we don't have to mow down everyone in sight in order to assure our own safety.  Here's why:
     Our armor, our Leader, and our cause (provided that it is HIS cause) are invincible!  And if that isn't enough, Jesus Christ has already secured the victory for us!  The whole battle before us is whether we will believe, accept and act upon these truths.

     With these thoughts in mind, i make a plea for understanding, acceptance and tolerance.  (There are two kinds of people who are impatient and intolerant:  [1.] Those who are young and impetuous, and [2.] everybody else).
     Put yourself in the place of someone who has spent the last two-to-three decades in an assembly, a non-leader who has tried to rear a family by impossible standards;  who has settled on a career built upon the hours of availability between assembly functions;  who has chosen a place to live based upon funds still available after supporting the assembly and the "work";  and who is tolerated by the assembly leadership mainly because of funds regularly "offered", labor provided upon demand, and unquestioning obedience.  Sound like fun?  Sounds pretty familiar.
     Now, picture yourself as that person, totally submitted to the local assembly.  Suddenly you are approached by a former assembly member who tells you that everything you have believed, professed, practiced and based your future hopes upon for most of your adult life is a total lie!  How easy do you think that will be for you to accept?
     You are told that the people you have most trusted and looked up to are vicious liars who have robbed you of everything meaningful in your life.  You are now faced with telling your children, your work associates, family and friends with whom you have parted company in order to "keep the faith" that everything you have told them for the past 20 or 30 years was wrong;  that you've been a fool and have wasted your life.  Think you would jump at the opportunity to buy into all this?

     It was relatively easy for those among the LBs or "in the work," where the rule was "Shape up, or ship out."  Take me:  i "fell from shape," so i was "shipped" (they stamp you, address you "anywhere but here" and drop you).  We didn't have to accept any ideas from anybody--  we were cast adrift, to sink or swim.  
     Besides, at 60 i've made enough mistakes and learned to admit them, that owning up to one more isn't all that big a deal.
     But your average Joe Saint can hang around an assembly forever if he's willing to keep up a decent cash flow and quietly help out wherever, whenever and however he's told.  So when you yank his whole world out from under him, do you think he's going to thank you and throw a celebration?

     Next time you're wondering why some of the assemblyites are still there after all they've seen and heard lately, consider the cost to them emotionally and psychologically to take the steps you've taken.  Have some pity, some mercy, some patience, some understanding, some acceptance, some tolerance.  OK-- maybe that's asking too much...  but will you pick at least a couple of those qualities and exercise them?  You can do it!  Thanks!!!

on behalf of ALL for whom Christ suffered and died,
al Hartman

That was an outstanding point Al.  Well said!!!

Below you will find the private message that I send to TimG as well as the one he sent back to me.  I had my doubts that the coward would actually get on the Blackboard and feel those doubts have most likely now been substantiated.  As for this imposter's question back to me, yes, I do consider myself to be an intelligent human being (quite, actually) and yes, I do consider myself to be a Christian.  If you were the "REAL" TimG, you would have better understood the questions posed to you in my private message.

Brian Tucker- I cannot believe that, given the circumstances, someone would be allowed to even remotely pose as Tim G. on this Blackboard.  

QUOTE:
Dear vbeers,

Do you consider yourself to be an intelligent human being???

Do you actually think that the real Tim Geftakys would sign on to a site that attacks every aspect of his character and appearance???

Secondly, do you consider yourself to be a Christian???  Please reread your message below and reevaluate how you are representing the Lord Jesus Christ.

Just a little food for thought.


Quote
TimG
I doubt I will be the first to ask this, but do you plan to 'defend' yourself?  There is no way that you personally can make right that which you have warped for so many years but you do have a very real opportunity to help those you have so hurt come to terms with the sick cult they have been a part of.  

This is the ONLY public forum about which every person ever involved with the Assembly is knowledgeable.  The BB is a source of communication and a tool for healing.  You can either sit quietly by the wayside and take no real public stance or you can speak.  Be participative, Tim.  Be a man.  Let's see if you have anything to say that isn't 'phenomanally stupid'.

vbeers

Vbeers,

I agree with you...

First off, what are the chances that someone would post as TimG on this BB...Everyone refers to Tim Geftakys as TImG...My guess is that this is one of Tim Geftakys puppets who was attempting to bait people into sending him messages.  

As far as asking the real Tim Geftakys to "be a man" and post on this site, and for him to say something that is not "phenomenally stupid", I think you are asking far to much from him.  For that matter, based on his limited education, I am sure that actually posting would be quite a chore for him.  He would probably have to get someone to show him how to log onto a computer and then click on post to send a message.

You are talking about a person who is over 50 who has been living off his dad his whole life and someone who has had control over a group his whole life...He has never had to admit any wrongdoing...To think he would actually be man enough to post on this site...probably not going to happen.

Actually, he's not even man enough to answer his phone or return a phone call.  I tried calling him last week after I got his number when calling 411.  I asked for the Timothy Geftakys in Fullerton, Ca. when I called the directory.  I assume he is the only one with this name out there.  

He is a snake and should be dealt with accordignly.

its true. i should have gotten to the bottom of it sooner. thanks for taking the initiative. looks like you chased them away - the account is now gone. fear vbeers  :) nice job!

I have just found this bb and was browsing.

In regaurd to the assembly in Omaha disbanding, it is not true, regrouping is a more correct term. I noticed that Pat stated that they are taking 6 weeks off, which is partially true.

Overtly they are taking 5 weeks for (don't know what term to use) evaluate, get in touch with the greater christian community, which is much needed. However there are some that are still meeting for worship and Bible study, just not at 7505 seward. The leader ship has been meeting and planning.

May first, they will meet again to seek the lords will in light of continuing to gather at 7505 Seward. I supose that the leadership needs to be ready in case they do, how ever I would feel more comfortable if they did not meet and spent the time getting in contact with the larger christian community and truly waiting to see what the Lord wants.

In regards to Omaha, I am a bit torn.  For myself, I view it as a dichotomy.  I do think it's good and refreshing that some of the Saints are reaching out and at least attempting to meet with other Christians.  For some, I would question there sincerity, but that's another matter.  On the other hand, ask yourself this question.  Do you really want some the "saints" at the Church you attend?  What if some of them really don't want a fresh start.  Then you have "saints" coming in with preconceived notions about this "worldy" church they are attending.  This in turn, could lead to trying to "make a difference" in some of the church members and turning a place of worship into a mission field.  I think sincerity is the operative word here and I'll tell you why.  I was recently approached by the "saints" on two different occasions where I fellowship.  Both times, I was with my wife.  Now, to their credit, they were both very cordial and geniune, TO ME!!  However, on both occasions, I introduced each of them to my wife and they BARELY ACKNOWLEDGED HER.  They acknowledged it was good that I got married and congradulated me, but never said more than two words to my wife.  What is she, chopped liver!!!  She's my wife for crying out loud!!  Now, I don't know if this was done overtly, or out of shear ignorance.  Many times in my assembly hay days, I would "go out" to people and my only concern was "getting them on with the Lord", without really caring about the person. This was done unintentionally, not overtly.  Irregardless, it's still a real slap in the face to both myself and especially my wife.  I'm glad that some of the saints are reaching out, but I still have some hesistation.  

P.S. I know I'm not the most eloquent or articulate person, so forgive me if I my speech comes across as "phemonally dumb!!"

P.S. I know I'm not the most eloquent or articulate person, so forgive me if my speech comes across as "phenomenally dumb!!"  
                                             mkoley

     No, dear Brother, your words come across as phenomenally welcome.  You have raised an important issue:  What if?  (What if thus-and-so happens?)  For us who have come out of the morass of the assemblies, there are a lot of what ifs.  Fortunately, they can all be dealt with in the same effective way.
     We have been taught to strategize:  to plot the various possibilities and plan courses of action to meet each potential situation.  It is the world's way of governing conduct, and the assemblies instructed us in a modified version of it, which was passed off to us as the will of God.

     But in reality, the mind of God works on an entirely different plane.  He is omniscient, all-knowing, and therefor has no need to strategize.  Things that have yet to come to pass in our concept of time are already feats accomplished in God's economy.  His "works were finished from the foundation of the world." Heb 4:3, and God "has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world." Eph 1:4.  (See also Matt 25:34, John 17:24, I Pet 1:20).
     So all these things that may or may not happen are already known to God, and he isn't worried about them, so we don't need to be either.
     Paul said that a "messenger of Satan" was sent to buffet him, and he asked the Lord three times to take it away from him.  And the Lord told Paul, "My grace is sufficient for you; for my strength is made perfect in weakness."  
     Paul's conclusion is, "Most gladly therefor I will glory in my afflictions, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.  So I take pleasure in afflictions, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake:  for when I am weak, then I am strong."
     Now the everyday situations that will face us, such as confrontations with former assemblyites, aren't likely to be any worse for us than the messenger of Satan that troubled Paul.  So we can follow Paul's example in knowing that Christ's grace is sufficient for us; we can rejoice in the situations that allow God to demonstrate the strength of his grace for us.

     We all have some preconceived notions.  Let's push them away and fix our eyes upon our savior, who has always loved us and will never leave or forsake us.  "Let us set aside every weight, and the sin which so readily besets us, and let us patiently run the race that is set in front of us, LOOKING UNTO JESUS, the author and finisher of our faith..." Heb 12:1-2

                    More about Jesus would I know,
          More of his grace to others show,
                    More of his saving fulness see,
          More of his love who died for me.


al Hartman

Thanks Al, I appericate your comments.