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I just wanted to get some feedback from you all.  I know that in the Assembly, celebrating Christmas and Easter was wrong, as well as watching television.  How do you all fell regarding these issues?  If you now celebrate these holidays, how do you celebrate them? ;D

Hello:
My family celebrates both Christmas and Easter. Both are celebrated rather in the American tradition, with Christmas having a bit of the German way as my wife is German-tree included. In my opinion, just bec. something isn't named in the Bible doesn't mean it's forbidden.We have a TV that almost exclusively functions as a video player. We did watch the World Series because it was on a Network that we cd. get w/o having an antenna. Cable and dishes are out of the question for us bec. of expense and bec. I'm afraid it wd. waste too much time-mine and the kids. There is some bad stuff one shld.n't bring into their home, but if one has the discipline to avoid it and have a TV fine for them. I guess my philo is "let a man examine himself...."
I wish the best to you out in NY.
Terry Huffman

Hi Eulaha,
  I do celebrate both and have the third.  In celebrating, so called Christian holidays, I recognize that there is nothing in the New Test. re. official celebrations of these.  We live in a culture that has been heavily influenced by Christian traditions and as such a mixture of secular traditions and Christian tradtions have come to be (is this the great Babylon of Revelation? nah, I don't think so.)
  I understand that such secular traditions as singing, "Grandma got run over by a reindeer", have nothing to do with Christian beliefs of the incarnation, but as Christians we can use the holiday as an opportunity to present the Gospel.  Now I know the Assembly would say, "right on, that's what we believe", but the Assembly would not have the tree, gifts, and etc. as they would use it as an "opportunity" while remaining absent from the practice of traditional celebration.  The evergreen tree is used as a symbol of everlasting life and of the everlasting light and hope of Christ's birth for the Christian, and not as a form of idolatrous worship (Oh tannebaum, Oh tannebaum! ;))
    I see Easter in a similar way and would never teach my kids that Santa or the Easter bunny are real. (It will have to be Grandkids now).
    Re. TV:  We've had a big struggle with that and have settled with just watching videos and not hooking up to cable.  I think this is a positive decision for us as most of TV is huge waste of time and I prefer to read and to be involved on this BB :).  This is a personal decision and if you need someone to prohibit your TV viewing because you can't control what you watch I suggest that washing the outside of the cup through rules and regulations is not the answer.  There are those in the Assembly who think that being committed there and attempting to keep their rules will overcome their inner inclinations to sin.  There are priests in the Catholic Church who attempted to use their commitment to the church to overcome their pedophilia and we know what that has led to.  It is also interesting that their attempts to cover it up didn't work as well (sound familiar?)
                                     God Bless,  Mark C.

Hi Mark!

My first Easter after I left the Assembly was spent at Calvary Chapel SLO.  The worship time was great, and I believe we had communion that day also.  On Good Friday, I also went to church.  I remember seeing the Tr0ckmans, and Stephen gave me a big hug!  ;D.  I have yet to celebrate Christmas, although I do send out holiday greetings.  I never really understood from the scriptures why we were NOT supposed to celebrate those holidays;I just went along with it.

Since I am on winter break from school, I do watch a lot of cable tv, mostly reruns.  I try not to watch it too much though.  My brain tends to go numb if I do! ;)

Hello everyone!

Last year we had a tree, our first one.  We got it because our kids were confused, and actually judged christians who celebrated christmas.  This year, no tree.  Next year, we'll see!

We took two of our kids to Toy's R Us on Thursday, so they could help us pick out something for the other kids.  However, we were just manipulating them, we actually noted what they were interested in while they were giving us their ideas about the others.  We had so much joy buying them each a gift.  It caused us to reflect on how God must feel by giving His children gifts, just because He loves us.  We don't do mistletoe, or get drunk at Christmas parties....

Easter---no bunnies or eggs, although if there is a neighborhood egghunt, our kids will go, because we are friends with our neighbors. We know them, and they like us. In fact, some of them come to our Bible study, which is a real change from when we were in the lodge. We definitely go to the Easter celebration (we call it ressurection Sunday at our church, not Easter) and there is always an excellent Good Friday noon-time program, which is a total blessing.  We don't do any fertility rights or anything like that, although Suzie and I may stay up late......

watching TV!  (had ya goin there)

I guess I should make a list of the shows that are good and bad and get all of you to commit to only watching the good ones. Does anyone think this would be a good idea?  ;)

Brent

I've got a n idea ;)!
Brent we ought to exchange gifts this year!
You cd. send me that list you were talking about.
Let's see, what shall I get for him? Hmm.








I know! There is some European swimwear on sale and they come in a pkg. of 3. ;D ;D

We celebrate all of it and we have a TV.  More then that we have a VCR, a DVD player, Digital TV with 306 channels, and a Nintendo 64 (which incidentally my kids are addicted to).  

Interestingly enough, a lot of everyday traditions that the assembly celebrates stem from "pagan" tradition.  It would not surprise me if almost all if not all of our traditions have a pagan influence somewhere.  Here are some examples of Assembly approved traditions that have pagan back ground:

Birthday cakes - Roman superstition of a prosperous next year.

Blowing out the candles on the birthday cake (no wishing of course) - Roman superstition again.

Wedding Cakes - Many pagan religions included this as a blessing for furtility for the couple.  ( I know rice is the same thing but so was the cake.)

Saying Good health or the german words for it Gedzuntied (spelling?) - In the past people believed that when you sneezed you could loose your spirit and would become ill and die and so they said Good health as a way to prevent the loss of the spirit and ward off ill health.

I know of more but can not remember all of the traditions and superstitions behind it.  Basicly, if you want to strain out the gnat you can but then you would have to, as Paul put it, "leave this world."

I just put up outside lights. They are so neat. I just like bright twinkly lights in the winter time. No tree, but I think they're pretty. I do give gifts to neices and nephews, just cause I like to.
I realize more and more the Lodge emphasized the OUTSIDE of the person, thinking that training etc would eventually sink into the inside.
WRONG. We have to start with the inside first, not all taken up with the outside behaviour.

We don't have a TV and I do not personally celebrate X-mas or Easter, but I hang out with friends and family who do without a problem.  BTW (by the way), what does it mean to celebrate X-mas and Easter anyways?
I like eggnog :)  Have any of you read the book, The Two Babylons?

I have a few computers and a cable modem.  I like to play this one particular real-time strategy game called Age of Empires II.  If anyone else plays this, send me a message and let's hook up for a game  ;D

Yes, we're free to and to not.  Of course we don't bow down to the tree and sacrifce our firstborn to it. And of course we don't have to go whip ourselves with a switch if we ever start to accidently hum Sleigh Ride.

Christmas does seem almost like a religous conviction, though, in that some people get all bent out of shape or think you're wierd if you don't celebrate it.  People hold to the belief that Christmas is a season of the year where we need to be extra-specially kind and generous to one another.  I think that's great.  It would also be nice to see that every day of the year.

But one thing.  Would Christmas be so big in America if it weren't for the fact that businesses promote it?  Year after year the propaganda gets pumped out and it has snowballed into this huge time of buying so that, if some businesses didn't have Christmas they'd go broke.  
So why do we have this belief that it is a time of giving?  Is it because God gave his Son?  If that is truly the reason for you then praise God (but I know then that you are not just thankful for that on this one day, right?)  Or is it because corporations want a healthy bottom line and have made us to believe that this is the time of the year to give, give, give (and spend, spend, spend)?!  I won't play that game.  I'm thankful to God for the birth (and death) of his dear Son every day of the year, and I don't need to buy something to show it.  Nor am I prohibited from buying something to show my love for others at this time or any time of year.  

Merry Christmas!

My husband IS the Croc Hunter.  "It's a beauty!"

Suzie

Croikee!   You're right!  Brent is the croc. hunter.  I've never put it together.  Either that or he is his long-lost twin brother, separated at birth who ended up in the Americas.  

Hey Rachel,  I think your message icon should be Uma Thurman.  You are a dead ringer of her.

 Regarding Christmas............I was in Trader Joes the other day and Nat King Cole was blaring over the sound system "Hark the Harold Angels Sing" and I thought ,"How cool is this". and I started singing along with it.  That to me is what Christmas is all about.  Freedom , joy, peace and reconciliation.

I was wrapping presents for my children the other day and the whole time I was so joyful, and I kept thinking "How much more does my heavenly Father love to give me gifts.

My oldest daughter earned some money babysitting the other day and she walked to the nearest shopping center and bought all of us gifts.  She did this with her own money and wrapped them for us.  Do you know how much that means to me?

If this is what "celebrating" Christmas is, then sign me up!!!!!!! :)

I think I'll go put on Mannheim Steamroller.

Joy to the World
Suzie

Suzie,

You are just too sweet.  I looked for a Uma Thurman icon but couldn't find one.  If anyone knows where I could get one and how to get it on this site, let me know, (Brian or Brent).

Rachel, I think you look a lot more like Gwyneth than Uma.  Keep your current icon!!

No offense, Suzie.  

I can't wait to see you both next week!  My favorite part about Christmas is coming back to SLO!!

I believe Christmas is a time to get together with family and friends.  

I agree.  Merry Christmas, Eulaha!

Actually the leadership in the assembly did not always appear to believe that watching television was wrong, or that owning a television was wrong.  I remember workers and leading brothers discussing television shows that they watched in hotels when traveling to seminars and such.  I guess that they were not concerned about watching television being a sin, but the appearance of them being a bad testimony for watching television.  They cared about perception not reality, and failed at both.  The shows that they talked about tended to be sitcoms.  I remember a LB/worker returning from a seminar, and the first they mentioned about their trip was not what they had learned at the seminar, but the "Perfect Strangers" television show that they had watched at the hotel.

Now here is the real shocker :o, a prominent brother in leadership (Mike Zach) actually had a television in his house. It was a small television that he kept hidden under a blanket on a dresser.  To be fair he supposedly only used this to hook up to his Vic-20 or Commodore-64 computer (this was the mid 80s).  But if it was okay for the leadership to watch television in hotels, and Mike had a TV hidden at his house, one has to wonder if he ever watched the occasional show on that TV.  It sure would have looked a lot better if Mike had been open about having a TV rather than hiding it under a blanket.  It is also interesting that those who were not in leadership positions were told that hey could not own televisions even for purposes other than watching TV shows (such as viewing home video recordings).  I guess there must be two standards, one for the strong leadership who can resist sin, and another for the weak sheep. ::) But it is strange, that if the leadership is so strong, that they had to be so secretive, and hide their actions.  I would venture a guess that they have hidden a lot more than televisions.

Retread,
When I first met GG in 1969, he had a tv in the little alcove under the stairs in his family room. (Just as I typed that a memory surfaced.  The first time I was ever in that room there were Christmas decorations on the mantle, and he showed me some presents his kids had given him.  No tree though.)
Anyway, I can remember seeing David and Timothy, who were about 16 and 19 years old at the time watching it.  GG explained that Betty had wanted the tv for "educational reasons".  
Years later, I remembered this when GG was angrily demanding that the workers who had small tv's in their closets or bedrooms, "get rid of the tv or get out of the work!".
Rules, such as the no tv rule, the no dating rule, the food rules and all the rest, developed over time in the first few years of the "assembly".  
Blessings,
Tom Maddux

I am not sure if GG knew anything about MZ's television (he kept it hidden under a blanket).  I remember seeing the television at Mike's house around the time of Super Bowl XX, which would have been January 1986, well after George's no television rule was in place.  The hotel tv watching by LBs and workers that I mentioned earlier was also occurring during this same time.

While an Assembly member, I had a little black-and-white tv which I too hid under a blanket.  I pulled it out often to watch FRIENDS and ER, as well as to watch the news.  I didn't feel like I was doing anything wrong, but I told no one about it.  When I left, I went out and purchased a color tv set and got cable.  I am still careful as to what I watch, and no longer feel dirty.

Tom,

Food rules???  I must have missed this one (or else my mind wants to forget some the stranger assembly laws).  Please explain.

Alright Greg,

You're forcing a response from me on this "issue".  Actually, a brother by the name of "PS" (who is still in the assembly), was told by Andrew Gunther to throw out his T.V.

Although Andrew acknowledged HE has a TV, he said the reason is because leading brothers have the discernment and spiritual maturity to watch TV. :P (I could puke over this but I like my keyboard.)

But, We are looking for a TV!  ;)

If you haven't read my article, "Of Gnats, Camels and Television", it is about a recent conversation with the guy Eric mentions in his post regarding television.  Eye opening.

I only watch television on Christmas day--but I watch re-runs of old Easter shows. just kidding.   -Joe

Wow, hope it isn't too late to post to this... I mean Christmas has past but hey the Easter Bunny is hopping to my home. You did mean the Easter Bunny in celebrating Easter didn't you? The baskets, the chocolate, the hiding of eggs out in the yard to get the children out of the house, the buying a new dress to wear to church. Is that what you meant?

I remember once telling a LB I was going to celebrate Christmas with my Dad. Wow, what an explosion! It was a year before I left and a few months after my mom died. I told him it was family time and since I didn't have much family left I was going to do it (celebrate Christmas that is!) He told me "we" didn't celebrate Christmas and why, yes, I had heard it before. I told him I wasn't asking for permission I was telling him what I was doing in case they wondered about that idolatrous tree in my living room!

Yea, I too have a TV and wished I had more spiritual maturity as I watched a deer hunting show this morning.....

Heide