AssemblyBoard

My mom occasionally raises some Toy Fox Terriers.  When she first got hers, she quit having trouble with mice.  These dogs are unusually fast and are able to catch them.  They have a nice personality and are anxious to please.  Sometimes it seems as if they have a sense of humor, as if they are natural born comedians.

A number of the puppies shown in this web site are from my mom's dog:

http://www.toyfoxterrier.com/

In fact, the middle picture on the puppies page shows my mom's dog nursing puppies.

Checked out the web site.  The puppies are cute.

M

Stephen----

Are you looking for an argument? Fox terriers can't hold a candle to shelties and you know it!!! ;D ;D --Just kidding of course. Cute Pups!!!  I just love dogs!! I mentioned in another thread about having an A.K.C. sheltie(shetland sheep dog) named Raleigh Vaughn(the combined name means "Little one who is the keeper of the field"). His ancestors were real sheep-herding animals. I got him as a pup and as he grew he began to exhibit strange qualities.

All dogs like to run around of course. But he would run in wide circles around people, and each rotation he would move in a bit closer. He would nip at the heels of people as he ran as though he were coaxing them to get closer inside the circle. I read a book about them and they say it is because of years of training--it has actually become a part of their make-up, and they also have a "natural" tendency to do this anyway. Thus, the reason man began using them as herders in the first place.

He was such an intelligent animal. I never trained him but it was like he knew what I didn't like him to do. If I scolded him he woould  go and sit in a part of the yard where he knew I couldn't see him from the door. I'm not sure about fox terriers, are they very intelligent too? You know, I'm not sure about this--but I hope there are dogs in heaven. :D

Did you ever see the old "Twilight Zone" epsisode where the old "Coon Hunter" almost enters hell instead of heaven but his old hound dog won't go in? It's a great episode.

Oh well, take care,  Joe

Joe ,
That is a great Twilight zone episode, Rod Sterling was a great writer/producer . They occassionally have Twilight Zone marathons.I taped all of them, my kids love them and they have opened doors to some great family discussions.

How about the books by James Herriot such as, "All Creatures Great and Small."
His books are about his experiences as a country vet.

Here is a web site that I found:

http://www.thirsk.org.uk/herriot1.html

Okay ... let's open this up for discussion ....

Do dogs have a soul??

Stephen----

Very funny!!  Andrea---thanks for the book references. As for a dog having a soul--I don't think the Bible teaches that(at least as far as I can tell)---but I would swear that some dogs are part human!! :D I hope my old friend Raleigh goes to heaven--it would be nice to see him again!!!

--Joe

I don't think dogs have a soul...but then again, what do I know?? I was biblically trained by George Geftakys!

This link just barely fits the topic of pets because there are some horses in it:

360 degree photos (http://www.yosemitepark.com/allactivities360.cfm?res=l&mv=stables&sectionID=45&pageID=579)

from http://www.yosemitepark.com/ (http://www.yosemitepark.com/)

On the keyboard, "+" zooms in and "-" zooms back out.

Eulaha,
My dog may not have a soul. I don't know. But he sure seems to have a conscience.. And I might add he is the cutest dog in Illinois. And smart too (he never liked George).
I think you'd love him.
Pat

i would concur that dogs probably don't have a soul, but my two akc rotties sure have spunk and personality!  they have mood swings and display signs of having a conscience, as well.  hercules can jump a six foot fence, turn on and off the water hose, traverse the country for hours on end (unbeknownst to us) and then cower in fear when he gets caught.  budha, on the other hand is rebellious as can be beneath his layers of fur and blubber (which we lovingly refer to as his adorable exterior) but he is also unathletic and not too bright...

eulaha, i thought you were going to say, "then again, how would i know...i thought george had a soul!"   :)

 ;)
TOPIC: PETS HAVE A SOUL:
Date: written on May 14,2004 at 12:13 noon EST:

I get mixed up between soul and spirit.

If the soul the personality core of our lives.
Then I have to say yes.

3 divisions in a human is body, soul and spirit.

Is the spirit that connect us to God.
I dont think a dog or a cat etc. does have that connection to God. No matter how much I wish they did.

I cant believe God created these animal, all of these animal and not preserve them for the new heaven and the new earth.
After all it does say some where in the word of GOD. that the child will lie down with the lion. and able to play in a cobra hole(paraphrasing).
So animals are beautiful creature, and part of God's creation. So why wont he preserve them.

Now just because the bible doesnt mention that animals are running around the throne of God.
Does it mean there are none.
It is one of those mysteries , of life that have been debated.

Animals have heart, minds, and energy, and personalities.
So is the soul the base of our personality.

Animals have unconditional love.
Where does that unconditional love come from.
Creatures knows the creator.

Didnt Jesus rebuke the Church leaders, for wanting him to quiet the crowds during his victorious ride on the colt on palm sunday.
Jesus said if he quiet his disciples, wouldnt the stones
immediate cry out.
My favourite passage in REVELATIONS is:
Revelation 5 :
There are a number of verses I praise God for in this chapter.
The verse of 13:
AND EVERY CREATURE WHICH IS IN HEAVEN, AND ON THE EARTH, AND UNDER THE EARTH, AND SUCH AS ARE IN THE SEA, AND ALL THAT ARE IN THEM, I HEARD SAYING:
"BLESSED AND HONOUR AND GLORY AND POWER
BE TO HIM WHO SITS ON THE THRONE
AND TO THE LAMB, FOREVER AND EVER!"

I also like the last line of 5:8:
and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints:"  this is for another posting .

Getting back to the DOG HAVING SOULS ,,,, ::)My vote is yes. if it means the personality of the animal.
ANIMALS have PERSONALITIES, no one can doubt that.

There is a stats I heard about : a full grown German Shepherd dog. has the minimum intelligence of a four year old child.

As an ALPHA LEADER TO MY DOG, I am bias, I have even taught my dog to talk.
For a weiner, she can say 'I LOVE YOU', 'GOOD GIRL', HUNGRY' 'SARA', 'MAMA',  she understands alot of words.
She even knows how the word WALK, even if you spell it. I AM NOT LYING !!!.
There was a friend of Sara's came in, She popped her head around with Sara to say Hello. MISSY MY DOG, said 'HOW ARE YOU', I didnt even open my mouth.
SHE LOOKED AT THE DOG, RAN OUT OF THE HOUSE.
It was unweinerized automatic, speaking to Sara's friend.  It looked like Missy was yawning, out pop 'HOW ARE YOU'.  It was so funny, Sara and I almost "peed" ourselves, laughing so hard, that my dog, scared out Sara's friend by talking  a three word sentence.
'HOW ARE YOU'

So after reading this comedy story.
DO DOGS HAVE SOULS.??????????
Mine sure does.


 ;D A VALLEY SEE YOU LATER ;D

Enc. is a picture of the breed my dog is part of.
I am waiting on an assistance from a church member to scan some pictures for me, put on 3 1/2 floopy, so  I can have more personal pictures to share including my dog.

I originally included part of this on the wrong thread.

I think that we are different from animals in that we have souls. I think that animals have a spirit, but I'm not real sure about it. God made everything, so I'm thinking that there is something of God in everything. God recognizes it, and it recognizes God. A "spirit" concept would fit this, I think.  But I know what you mean about animal personalities; they are as different from eachother as we people are from eachother.

Yes, I've decided that my cat has a "spirit", a good one.  ;) If Balaam's donkey could talk for the Lord, my cat could, too. If Balaam's donkey could see an Angel, then other animals could, too. If winds and storms and rivers can respond to God's voice, my cat can, too.  :o Someday....

 :D

ENCLOSED YOU WILL FIND A PICTURE OF ME
WITH MY FURRY FOOTLEGGED CHILDREN

     This one-page thread has been lingering on the BB for almost a year.  In my typical unbiased, fence-sitting, peace-keeping manner, I have composed the following poem, with the goal of maintaining harmony among Christian pet-owners:

                             Cats are cool,

                              But dogs rule!


     But, seriously, a wise brother once told me that if the best dog in the world were to bite the worst man in the world, the dog would have to suffer the consequences, because only man, of all God's creatures, was created in His image & likeness.  Mankind may corrupt itself in the extreme, but we still bear the only design meant to inherit the Kingdom of God.  Food for thought...

al

I dont know when you posted this, I dont even know if this is page one.????
Did you know that fox terriers was breed to catch mice and rats. That was their purpose. So your parents dogs were just doing their job they was breed into them.

May 28: 6:17 am.

DIDN'T YOU HEAR THAT:

DOGS ARE COOL
AND CATS RULE.

Just the different in temperment.

MAY 29: 11:50 AM:
FOUND THIS JOKE ON THIS WEB SITE:
www3.sympatico.ca/evideoweb
Used by Permission.

Check out the Friends section.


If you can start the day without caffeine,

If you can get going without pep pills,

If you can always be cheerful, ignoring aches and pains,

If you can resist complaining and boring people with your troubles,

If you can eat the same food everyday and be grateful for it,

If you can understand when your loved ones are too busy to give you time,

If you can overlook it when those you love take it out on you,

when through no fault of yours, something goes wrong.

If you can take criticism and blame without resentment.

If you can ignore a friend's limited education and never correct him,

If you can resist treating a rich friend better than a poor friend,

If you can face the world without lies and deceit,

If you can conquer tension without medical help,

If you can relax without liquor,

If you can sleep without the aid of drugs,

If you can say honestly that deep in your heart you have no prejudice

against creed, color, religion or politics,

Then my friend...

you are almost as good as your dog
(ö)


I hope you enjoy this little story.

HAVE A GIDDAY TODAY;
TALK TO YOU LATER:

L.O.L. LENORE


p.s.: Al do you agree about the dog???

 :)JUNE 13TH  11:32 PM

HIGHJINKS OF PERCY THE CAT:

Percy is a 3 year old grey, brownish tabby cat. with a red collar. and friendly cuddly type of a cat. His favour playmate is Missy the 9 year old border collie. Who Percy loves to torment, especially grabbing Missy by the ankles of her back leg, bitting until he gets a reaction out of Missy.

Percy loves to walk across the keyboard, and created havoc with the keys, and smoothness of the typing.
He even lies on top of the monitor.

One day Percy walked across the desk and hit the telephone speaker phone button and a few keys, all you heard was dialing of the number the keys .

He love drinking out of the dripping faucet in the bathroom sink.

To go outside, if he could escape he would, but he has learned now to wait until he is picked up.
He get tied on a blue leash, tied to the picnic table on the drive way.
There are two dogs next door, one is a pure white huskie mix, name Scooter, who wants to play with Percy, but  Scooter is a little bit for Percy. There is another little brown terrier mix name Rex. Who is afraid of Percy, even though Percy has no claws to scratch.

It is funny to see Missy a 90 lb medium build dog and a 10 lb tabby cat running down the stairs to gether, or this little cat attacking Missy face to face.

Percy loves to curl up against a warm body to have his naps.

Percy will meow for food, if his food dish is empty.
He will even go and sample Missy's food. Percy will try anything once to eat. If he sees Missy eating it , He at least has to have a lick of it.
Percy is a supporter of Missy too. The week that Missy leg was very painful with arthritis, Percy would lie next to Missy, and clean out Missy ears, and that is a big job.
Because Missy doesnt like sharing her food with Percy, Percy was a big help getting Missy to take her medication for her pain.
Percy and Missy will team up, to catch the bugs that  come into the house, especially moths, or dune bugs.
Percy will do the jumping and knock down the bug, and Missy will do the nosing and squashing. Both will share in the snacking of the bug.
So you think with Missy and Percy in this house, this house would be bug free.
Both Percy and Missy , loves playing blanket game.
Where a hand goes under the blanket and the game begins , Percy it is a game of waiting, crouching and attack. Missy is a one , two , three, go and then attack. That hand under the blanket is an  target for teeth, paws and growls. Both love it so much.
Both Percy and Missy agree on something else. Baths are not to be tolerated.  When the Bath water is running , the bathroom is the last place to be.
When there is lunch meat, that needs animal assistance, they are both there to help out.

Percy and Missy both thank you for this time of communication with you.
Glad to get to know you better.

GIDDAY FROM THE OTTAWA VALLEY.
FROM MISSY THE BORDER COLLIE MIX DOG
AND PERCY THE TABBY CAT
COURTESY OF THEIR MOM:  LENORE

 :) :D ;D ;): June 24, 10:20 am.

I was cruising through the posts and deciding which to jump in and participate .
When Percy my cat came up decided he wanted attention.

It was a 10 minute purr fest.
He cuddled his head under my chin, licking my neck, and just purred up a storm, while I caressed his head and stroked his furr , He loves his ears rubbed.

He had his attention, now he is going to a favourite spot in my closet to find a place to sleep.

Percy loves chocolate pudding, He only gets a couple of licks, because chocolate pudding doesnt like him too much .

Percy like to sleep at my feet at night, although in some of the cold nights , he will sit in the bathroom window which is open, and then he comes and wants to get under the covers, and get his ears warmed up.

You move anything under a blanket, it is a game of attack the object. Usually my hand, He grabs my hands with both front paws, rolls over on his side or back, and his little teeth tries to get a better grip. and his back paws are kicking at the bundle he just captured.

Percy can be very insistent when he has an empty food dish. Even if there is a about a few pieces of Whiskes left, he insist he needs a few more.

If you think that I spoil my furry babies, you are absolutely right. Percy is a family member and gets treated like a family member.  Cats are a twenty year committement.  Animals are such a joy, and they give so much unconditional love, that they need to be part of the family . Even when cats are solitary and independent, they can be such cuddlers too.
Percy say Meow"hello" and I say have a GIDDAY.


LENORE

I think this is interesting.
When we speak of someone being an "animal", we mean it as a put down, but man has a capacity for evil that isn't duplicated in animals.

The Bible speaks of animals existing during the millennial kingdom, but not in the new creation after that. I'm guessing that it's because we won't have a need for them after that? or what?

What are your thoughts on that, Al?

 :): July 23: at 4:42 pm:

If the new creation, is the new GARDEN OF EDEN, why wouldnt there be animals, there was animals in the original Garden of Eden.

Why wouldnt God grace his new creation with the beauty of animals?

After all there are passages in the old testament, where it does say the lamb will lie down with the lion, and a child can put its hand in a cobra den.

In heaven all of creation will be worshipping the Lamb upon the Throne,
I take that ALL OF CREATION not just MAN.
It does specify, creatures of earth, creatures of air, and creatures of the sea.

SO WHY WOULDNT THERE BE ANIMALS IN GODS NEW CREATED EARTH?

I believe animals give God pleasure too.
He wouldnt of made so many kinds, so many colours, so many beautiful details.  God is a God who preserves the details, the little details of the Bible like ancestorial lines,
Why wouldnt God preserves the animals.

I would like to believe that all the animals that MAN HAVE EXTINCT, that God is preserving those species for the new earth.

Who knows maybe he is even preserving them for planets of the universe.
After all God made so many planets, and only earth has people.
WHEN FINAL SEGMENT OF BIBLE IS FINISHED IN TO A NEW HEAVEN AND A NEW EARTH.

MAYBE WE WILL BE LIVING ON ONE OF THOSE PLANETS IN THE NEW HEAVEN.

The last sentence was just a thought.

No animals give pleasure, and give us unconditional love, especially domestic pet, and even pet in the zoo that have been hand raised.
NO I TOTALLY BELIEVE GOD'S CREATURES OF THE ANIMAL KINGDOM WILL BE PRESERVED FOR THE NEW EARTH AS WELL.

Lenore

August 30th

Hi All:

The Province of Ontario is passing a law, that is banning all breeds of Pit Bulls.
The ones who now own them can keep them, but they must be spayed or neutered, wear a muzzle when out in public, and they cannot breed, or replace them.

DO YOU BELIEVE IT IS THE DOG FAULT OR THE OWNER'S FAULT?

There are arguments on both sides of the story, especially the onces who have been attacked by a pit bulls, because of the viciousness of the bites, and the determination once a pit bull decides to latch on , because of those powerful jaws of their's.

My own experience with PitBulls have been well behaved, well trained, well socialized, and complete babies. My experience has been when I worked at a Animal Hospital, dealing with dogs on a daily basis. I perferred the bigger dogs to the ankle biters.

As for pit bulls and other bigger breeds , I am not afraid of them, but I do respect them. Even my own dog a very friendly border collie lab shepherd mix, who is badly spoiled, yet is over 10 years old. You die of drowning with her big tongue sloppering you up, yet if someone decides to be threatening, I would not be able to say that I would be able to trust her behaviour.

So the question again is:

IS IT THE BREED OF THE DOG OR JUST BAD DOG OWNERS.

Lenore

PRAISE THE LORD!!
PRAISE THE LORD!!

Who cares? They've killed enough people so that in my opinion, they shouldn't be on this side of the earth's crust.

Well, Lenore, things are a little different in the grand U.S. of A.

According to this particular study, Pit Bulls are at the TOP of the list for deaths caused by dogs.

I, too, had a friendly run-in with a small neighborhood Bull who was loose and lost and friendly, but they belong in a cage with six sides, just like any other animal kept in the zoo, regardless of who they will be praising someday.

Whatever the reasons for the fatal dog attacks, Pit Bulls still top the list.

THE STATISTICS - FATAL DOG ATTACKS IN THE U.S. FROM 1965 - 2001 *

The study covers 431 documented human fatalities from a dog attack.

Location of Attack
25% of all fatal attacks were inflicted by chained dogs
25% resulted from dogs loose in their yard
23% occurred inside the home
17% resulted from attacks by dogs roaming off their property
10% involved leashed dogs or miscellaneous circumstances

Number of Dogs
68% of all fatal attacks were inflicted by a single dog
32% was the result of a multiple dog attack

Victim Profile
79% of all fatal attacks were on children under the age of 12
12% of the victims were the elderly, aged  65 - 94
9% of the victims were 13 - 64 years old

The age group with the highest number of fatalities were children under the age of 1 year old; accounting for 19% of  the deaths due to dog attack. Over 95% of these fatalities occurred when an infant was left unsupervised with a dog(s).

The age group with the second-highest number of fatalities were 2-year-olds;  accounting for 11% of the fatalities due to dog attack. Over 87% of these fatalities occurred when the 2-year-old child was left unsupervised with a dog(s) or the child wandered off to the location of the dog(s).

Boys aged 1 - 12 years old were 2.5 times more likely to be the victim of a fatal dog attack than girls of the same age.

 Breeds Involved
Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%), Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%), German Shepherd Dogs (9%), Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%), Malamutes (4%), Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%), Chow Chows (3%), Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).

Reproductive Status of Dogs
Overwhelmingly, the dogs involved in fatal dog attacks were unaltered males.
From 2000-2001 there were 41 fatal dog attacks. Of these, 28 were attacks by a single dog and 13 fatalities were caused by multiple dogs.

Of the 28 single dogs responsible for a fatal attack between 2000-2001;
26 were males and 2 were females.  Of the 26 males, 21 were found to be intact (the reproductive status of the remaining 5 males dogs could not be determined).

 States with the Most Fatalities -  1965-2001
California, 47; Texas, 32; Alaska, 26; Florida, 22; New York, 19; Michigan, 18; Illinois, 18; North Carolina, 17; Georgia, 16.

While at times informative, statistics on fatal dog attacks can also be misleading. For example, a number of cases were a Pit Bull, Rottweiler or GSD were counted as causing a human fatality were in reality the direct result of gross human negligence or criminal intent (i.e. discarding a newborn in the yard where the dogs were kept, or cases of extremely emaciated animals, or cases were the dog was ordered or encouraged to attack the victim).

This study was conducted not to determine which breeds of dogs caused fatalities, but rather to examine the circumstances and events that precipitated an attack.  Knowing how many Pit Bulls or Rottweilers caused a human fatality has little applicable value, only when examining each case individually can we hope to gain insight into the HUMAN and CANINE behaviors that contributed to these tragic events.

The preceding information and statistics are excerpts from the book:

* "FATAL DOG ATTACKS: The Stories Behind the Statistics", by Karen Delise

Wow Moon, those stats are a powerful message.

I agree in the wrong hands , dogs can be a dangerous weapon.

Those stats doesnt even touch on the afflicted damage due to injuries, and the medical cost to treat those injuries.

I agree most of the victims are children, because they are weaker vunerable target.

Most of the dogs, like Pit Bull whatever type, and the Rotweiller is trained for guard dogs.

But in the wrong type of human hands, they are trained, abused, starved, to be fighting dogs, for dog fight shows.

I agree any dog can afflict injury and fatalities, including smaller breeds.
But most times it is not the fault of the dog, but because under the hands of irresponsible two legged animal, they have become vicious, and have been breed for viciousness, because it is too late to retrain the animal, usually the solution is euthanaza, but I do believe owners of these living weapons should be held accountable as well, for the injuries and fatalities that was caused by the animals under their care, because of their irresponsibility.

Yes dogs who are trained to be vicious should be kept under lock and key. But I dont believe that all pit bulls should be labelled vicious and dangerous.
Because a well breed, well trained, well cared for, well socialized, well loved and respected. These dogs can be a very gentle member of the family.

A dog is only as good as you raised them up to be.
It is all in the parenting.

Lenore

Lenore

There are so many breeds that are better suited as pets. Yes the dog is not doing anything morally wrong in its being but it still kills and seriously injures others in spite of itself. It is not a pet and should not be bred in any area as pets for civilians. If you want to see them keep them in a zoo. I treat dangerous breeds like a gun. Most people don't need one and those who get them often don't use them responsibly. Remove the gun and people don't get hurt. Remove that breed same result.

Sorry we differ on this. I have been attacked by dogs and know what it is like and feel all this talk of owners responsible is like closing the door after the horse is out. The owner is not there and the dog will not stop.

Hugh

Yes Hugh , we differ, but it is understandable, because you were a victim of a dog attack.
I have been bitten when I work at the Animal Hospital, it was the bigger breeds that bit me.
It was the smaller breeds which I dub the ankle bitters.
But there is also a difference here, I am not afraid of dogs, I respect them, the potential power, especially in the jaws area. Certain breeds are not to be trusts, and because of that respect has to be given to that. I still say the human factor is at play here. As humans are stewards of the animal kingom, since humans have domesticated these animals to be our companions and humans train and used these animals for there purposes, whether it is a job like a border collie with sheep, or a German Shepherd for a Guide Dog for the Blind, or a Hunting Dog for hunting, or just to be loving companion for company.  ALso the Pit Bull or Rotweiller for Guard Dogs. It is humans that create puppy mills, that for the sole purpose is to over breed, and interbreed to be sold at pet store's , while the those dogs live in unclean, underfed, in cages too small to  move around, with out vaccinations to keep disease away.
This is the breeding ground for unstable dog, thus creating the dangerous unpredicatable dog.
So I agree that the dog , has a historical, genetically, background, but it is the humans that have created the situation that producted a unstable type of dog, through abusivness toward the animal in their care. Dog are packed animals like the their cousin the wolf, Because humans have domesticed the dog, the human owners are their pack.
In my own experience as a dog parent, I am the Alpha leader of my home. Because Missy is a mix breed of border collie, lab, shepherd mix, Missy is quite an intelligent dog. Because of my experience working at an animal hospital, I was shown how to train her, and to maintain that Alpha role in the pack. Missy is now 10 years old, I am coming up with the decision of put her down, prior to my move into the apartment.  In my knowledge experience , Socialization is the biggest key for a well trained dog. I am the type I cannot go for a walk with out saying hello to the dogs that is being walked by the owner, I usually will say hello to the dog , bend down to pet the dog, before I say hello to the owner. Even if the dog is a lone I will talk to the dog, while still walking.
One day long ago, Sara and I were walking down John Street there was one of those ankle biter small breed dog, came running down a drive way, barker it head off, and as previous experience would come around the ankle. This time as it approached, I barked back. Well that dog went yelping back to its yard.  Sara laughed all the way down the street.
Dog can sense fear.
Beside most dogs can recognize a dog lover given a chance.
Yes we will differ Hugh, but I believe experience is the reason for that difference.

Enclose is some stats for Canada, on Dog that Attack.............

Thanks for the conversation:
Lenore

 
 
NATIONAL CANINE RESEARCH FOUNDATION
 
 
 
Fatal Dog Attacks -  CANADA
 
A spate of recent attacks by Pit Bulls and Rottweilers have unleashed a storm of negative publiclity and sentiment towards these two breeds in a number of areas in Canada.
 
In an attempt to gain a better perspective of the problem with canine aggresson towards humans and to disprove the current perception that severe and fatal attacks is a phenomena exclusive to Pit Bulls and Rottweilers, the following information is presented.
 
Fatal Dog Attacks -  Canada:   1983 - 2003
 
1983  (2)  Farm Dogs          Roaming dogs kill child          (Edmonton)
1987  (1)  German Shep X      Chained dog attacked child       (Vernon)         
1988  (1)  German Shep        Unsupervised child               (Quebec)
1990  (1)  Chow Chow          Attack on newborn                (Ontario)
1993  (1)  Sled dogs          Chained dogs kill child          (N.W.T.)
1993  (5)  Sled dogs          Attacked by loose dogs           (Alberta)
1994  (1)  Maremma Sheepdog   Family dog killed child          (Ontario)
1995  (2)  Am Staffs          Drunken man provoked dogs        (Ontario)
1995  (2)  German Sheps       Killed by uncle's dogs           (Saskatchewan)
1996  (?)  Strays             Child killed by stray dogs       (Manitoba)
1997  (1)  Sled dog           Chained dog w/pups               (Saskatchewan)
1998  (?)  Sled dogs          Pack chained on sea ice          (Iqaluit)
1998  (1)  Bullmastiff        Playing w/neighbor's dog         (Ontario)
1998  (8)  Lab/Huskies Xs     Mother & son killed by pack      (Newfoundland)
1998  (6)  Strays             Boy killed by strays             (Manitoba)
1999  (1)  Husky X            Neighbor's dog                   (British Columbia)
1999  (1)  Husky              One of 24 chained dogs           (Quebec)
1999  (1)  Husky X            Grandfather's dog                (N.W.T.)
1999  (?)  Strays             Girl killed by starving dogs     (Alberta)
2002  (2)  Lab X & Rott       Attacked in field                (Ontario)
2003  (3)  Rottweilers        Boy wandered into yard           (New Brunswick)
2003  (4)  German Shep Xs     Grandmother's dogs               (Manitoba)
 
 



 
It should be noted that there is no national recording system for the documentation of fatal dog bites in Canada.  The NCRF, while researching and documenting fatalities in the US also recorded any and all fatalties that occurred in Canada that were discovered.
 
Since the focus of NCRF's study was primarily those attacks that occurred in the United States, there is the distinct possibly that some additional Canadian dog-bite fatalities may be missing from this list. Nonetheless, this list appears to be the only recording of fatalities available for Canada, and may be considered a fair representation of the types of fatal dog attacks that have occurred in Canada over the last 2 decades.
 
 

 
 

I've never been bit by a dog, Lenore, but statistics, like the ones I posted already, don't lie.

Pit Bulls' killer instinct is not a result of their being mistreated. Mistreatment is not a genetically reproduced event.

People live with Bobcats, and other wild cats, too. Those animals will always be "wild" and cannot be allowed to live as a "tame" cat. They require a certain behavior of the owners, and owners of them cannot demand the same kind of behavior of non-owners.

In other words: If you own an animal with killer instincts, you cannot demand that others live with the animal. It has to be in a controlled environment - LIKE A CAGE.
 
 

Hi MoonFlower:  I can understand where you are coming from. Yes if you breed a dog or any animal to be aggressive & vicious it should be kept away from innocents.

But have you ever studied how the different breeds came about, or how bigger breeds were made into the toys that are around now.

It because people have genetically alert them, by breeding particular characteristics that they wanted or didnt want into the animal.  It takes several generation to get the characteristics to get the particular goal in mind.

But that is human breeding these animals to get what they want.

Pit Bull are not a natural breed of dog.  They were breed by adding and subtracting different characteristics of existing breeds of dog in the beginning.
Most breeds of dogs are products of specific breeding techniques until they are recognized as the breeds they are today.

Pit Bull is a genetically created breed. Why do you think some of them are gentle and some of them are deadly killers.  Because of generational specific characteristic breeding.
That is why some become Guard Dogs, Some become Fighter Dog,but with responsible breeding they have become gentle animals. But unfortunately, since we dont know which is which, you have to ask the owner if it is friendly enough to pet.

To compare a Dog with a wild animal who has not been genetically altered down through the generations, is not really a fair comparsion. Those wild animals who have not had human contact from is reacting from instinct, from what God has given them to survive.
Like the farm animals who have been domesticated, like the cow, where a farmer can milk, herd, care for those animals, because that animal has learn to trust this farmer. Yet the farmer knows that a cow can turn dangerous in certain circumstances.
Barn cats who have never has human contact to make them family pets are wild and untameable , and will scratch the skin right off you. Yet Cats are great pets, gentle, loving and independent.

Like humans who are vicious, dangerous, out of control, these animals need to be cage and put away because they are a danger to society. But you dont paint all humans with the same brush .
So like the PitBull and other dogs where have been breed and under human care, shouldnt be painted by the same brush.
I think each animal whatever the breed should be judged on its own merit, not because it belongs to a specific breed. Its that profiling and sterotyping, even though it is only a dog. But there can be human ratification in all of this.  Like a person who rides a motor cycle, and wears leather is a Hell's Angel criminal. That is profiling and sterotyping all people who rides a motorcycle and wears leather.

Dont forget there are feral animals, including dogs, these are the most dangerous of all. Because they have either been abandoned or ran away, and have hooked up with other dogs to form a pack, and have gone back to the wild nature, to survive. A dog who doesnt have a pack and on the loose, have no chain of command in that pack to take order, ie. the human pack family, where the Alpha leader is responsible for the care and direction behaviour within that pack.
A dog who wants and is the Alpha Leader of its own pack, can be a very dangerous animal, because they become territorial and will exercise that power of the Alpha.

Well that enough for now, I thank you for the conversation, and the topic.

I bide you Happy Lord's Day. I hope you will have a wonderful time in the HOuse of the Lord, and am to glean from the message that God has for you today. May the seeds of his word, be a time of growth in your life.

Lenore

Lets get real here: Cats don't kill people.
And also with you.

Why were particular breeds picked by sickos to breed for the killer instinct? Because they already had it in their genes, down thru the centuries.

You convinced me, Lenore. God created dogs, man created the Pit Bull.

I am stereotyping: CAGE THEM ALL. ..........Better yet: BAG 'EM

 :D ;D :D

Hi Moon okay is it just the Pitbulls you want caged and bagged, or is it all dogs.

Ha's.......

Christie my oldest daughter loves a Pug. Ever since she saw one when she was about 9 years old. She always wanted a pug. They are cute.

Sara loves a pug, but she collected items that resembles border collies. She has quite a collection.

I love Boxers, & Shelties.

When I worked at the Animal Hospital, Dr. and wife owned a Boxer/Great Dane name Lamont.
Sara was about 4 years old when I went to work there. Lamont was a large dog.
Tan. and gentle as a lamb.  Sara is a bit hyper, so she was getting under Lamont skin one day I was visiting in the yard, which was at the time across the street from where I lived.
Lamont had enough of Sara picking on him. Lamont was 10 years old at the time.
Lamont took his great big head and slapped her on the forehead.
Sara cried. Lamont bite me.  There was just a bruise from where the head hit.

Sara birthday is in December 17th, since I am on 26th, I always made sure Sara had a party because I know what it is like to get one present for two purposes.
Sara had to insist that Lamont come to her party too. Mrs. I. dressed Lamont up in a bright ribbon around his neck. And a present in his month,  Lamont even had hot dog, and ice cream and cake, and he went home with a loot bag.
Lamont attended 4 birthday parties.  I may have had 10 kids in the house too. With Lamont there was enough dog for everyone.
I have pictures of Lamont and all the kids, even sitting by the table with the kids while they had there meal.

When the Dr. and Mrs. I. went on vacation I was responsible for looking after Lamont.
When Lamont left us when he was 14 years old, six months later I gave Missy to Sara.
How Missy came about was there was an ad in the paper, that the human society was giving away this puppy. Now Sara was bugging me for a dog for a couple of years.
It was about 30 minute walk away. So Sara was 8 years old, and we went for a walk. Sara had no idea that we were getting a puppy.  When we arrived , the puppy was there, Sara picked up to pet, then I said do you want the puppy to take home. Well Sara cried all the way home with the puppy in her arms. By the time we got home, Sara's tears bath the dog. I took her to Dr. I. for a check up.  That was 10 years ago last February. Missy was 9 weeks old at the time.

Missy will probably be my one and only dog in my adult life.

Do you have any puppy, dog stories to share.

Lenore

I grew up with cats and a dog and fish and gerbils. I have a Maine Coon now. It is as they describe it: a dog in cat's clothing. It is beautiful.

I have a Maine Coon, too. The only problem is with their long hair, especially in the summer.

Hopon

Lenore did you think of just putting paper in an area of the house for the dog? Do older dogs need that much exercise anymore?
You probably had the dog checked out already but does the dog have a urinary tract infection that would make it pee all over? I had an older cat that started doing that on the rugs in the house after she saw me taking some of her pool of urine in the basement to get tested at the vet because she was losing all her hair. She had kidney disease and some other problem that seemed like Parkinsons. Her head would start shaking and she would find me and come and sit by me for comfort. I wish I had not put her to sleep.

Hopon

...depends on the size of the cat.  If Sylvester was as big as the Lion King, he'd be trying to eat Granny instead of Tweety! ;D ;D


There is no documentation, but it's reasonable to suppose that only one breed of dog boarded the ark.  Men have worked hard ever since to develop "specialties" into their dogs, resulting in canines bred just to hunt one type of animal, e.g. wolfhounds, 'coonhounds, elkhounds, etc.  (The dacshund was bred to follow badgers into their burrows & bring them out.)  There are also work dogs such as Huskies, St. Bernards, etc.  Men bred these traits into them by selection. 

The "killer instinct" that led to the bull terrier becoming known as the "pit bull" was an instinct in the "sickos" you mention, who then developed it into the dogs.  Any dog can be trained to attack-- the difficulty then is training it not to attack.

Wierd Al,

You need to do a little research to discover that this particular breed was picked for desired characteristics already present in it. Not all dogs can be trained to kill. All breeds are different.

BTW, what color eyes did Noah have?

Moonflower

Reliable research doesn't go back far enough for this.  How did those characteristics get to be "already present?"  My point, although facetiously spoken, was that they were traits "desired," and therefore developed, by breeders.



Upon what research do you base this supposition?


Indeed they are.  A breed is a "breed" because it has been very selectively "bred."  By selective breeding and training, any breed can be developed into an attack animal.  It is unlikely that a chihuahua could ever rip the jugular from a full-grown man, but the breed can most certainly be trained to attempt it.


I regret that I am unable to answer this with any degree of certainty-- whenever I tried to make eye-contact, the man always squinted. ;D ;D ;D

W.a. ;)

Yes, yes, the traits were desired by sickos and therefore were developed by them, but Bull Terriers were picked for this reason because they already showed. Have you read any history of these sweet little puppies?
Upon what research do you base your supposition?
Right. Again, your research?
I knew it!! He probably mumbled and walked away, too.  ;)  You should have talked to his outgoing wife who told me.
Moonflower

My Dear Moonie,

While you have not persuaded me, you have succeeded in wearing me down.  I haven't the time or the energy to dredge up documentation, and it would no doubt be inconclusive to one of such strong opinions as yours.  So I withdraw from the field-- the battle is yours.  You may commence with the slaughter of the pitbulls.  (Let me know if you need a good method of removing bloodstains from your workclothes ;))

al

Cats rule.

Right on, Scruffy!!!!!  Cats do rule.  Just ask my 15 year old feline, Killer (no kidding, that's his name ;))

Gay

Ephraim,

Are you trying to sell me an Amway product??

I thought you had a little dog. MercyMe! A cat lover, too?

April 25th 2006

Good Evening:

I was wondering if any of you watch the Animal Planet tv channel.
Do you watch Animal Cops, Animal Precinct.

It is on here 10 pm on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays.
They are old rerun shows.

But they deal with agents of the local Animal Control Offices of various cities, which include Detroit, New York, and Huston, and at times Miami.

I prefer the Huston one best of all.

It is reality cop show, involving getting animals out of trouble.

Tonight was the episode, involving a dog starved to death. And when the court procedure was viewed the hidden face of this dogs owner "said I didnt know anything was wrong" despite the pictures being put in her face.

Watching these shows make me hug my cat even further. It is appaulling how much abuse, wickedness there are in the world.
It has shown that people who abuse there animals are more likely to abuse people.

Animals are God's creation too, and God gave these animals to us human to take care of them.
We humans have done a very poor job of it, with extinctions, animal endangerment, yet there are people out there protecting, and loving these animals.

Well I off my soap box, and wondered if you have seen these shows.

Lenore

On the lighter note:

This summer we have had hot humid weather, resulting in many thunder storms.

My cat Percy. Dives under the bed.  When it calms down a bit. He pops up, jumps up and get assurance, then another crack of thunder after lightening has struck the water. Under the bed he goes.

The other day, since moving into the apartment last October,
Percy has gain abit of weight.  I removed his collar as it was getting tight.
I rubbed his neck .  Then I went to lengthen the collar.
I put it on my bedside table. 
Percy grab it with his teeth and promptly threw it in the garbage can.
Now wasnt that a hint, or was that a hint.

Animals are God's creation, giving us something to lighten our mood.

REVELATIONS 5: 13TH
Prove that there will be animals in the new earth/heaven.

I just love pets too. Last year I was fortunate enough to be given an African elephant calf as a gift. Within a year the animal has grown greatly, and unfortunately I will most likely have to part with it soon. "Chester" as I fondly call him, has done some things that have truly tickled my heart. About two weeks ago my Aunt Wilma was visiting from Vermont. She is 77 years old and has bad eyesight. She wandered into the back yard and into Chester's area of the yard. He wrapped his trunk around her and literally tossed her over the wall into the neighbors pool. I just had to giggle about that when I saw it happen. I just thought I'd share that and hope to share other heartwarming experiences with pets soon. Animals do the darndest things.

--Joe

elephant bacon is the best

and that my friend is no chicken-scratch.

The other day I was at a friends house and their cat reminds me of "Garfield" except with with spots. The cat weighs about 15 pounds. I brought my 7 month old daughter who weighs about the same. It was kinda funny watching them both watching each other,  :)

Ps
Both are adorable