AssemblyBoard

Here is a link to the original article, a copy of which was previously posted here:

http://www.family.org/cforum/citizenmag/webonly/a0025956.html (http://www.family.org/cforum/citizenmag/webonly/a0025956.html)
http://www.family.org/cforum/citizenmag/webonly/a0025956.cfm (http://www.family.org/cforum/citizenmag/webonly/a0025956.cfm)

I'm curious. If you found out that your boss is pro-choice/pro-abortion and gave regularly to Planned Parenthood from a legit company fund (albeit only $30 a month) would you quit your job?

Stephen,

I highly doubt that your boycott of the multi - billion dollar company Berkshire Hathaway, Inc. is going to do a whole lot of damage.  As a matter of fact, you could probably get all of the saints, all the people ever involved with the assembly, all of the people ever offended by saints in the assembly, mulitply that amount by 1000, have a protest, and still not make one iota of a dent in Berkshire.

Warren's actually a real nice guy who donates to a lot of different causes. Your ignorant one sided post is a direct reflection of the former ways of assembly life.

I guess we won't be seeing you at Dairy Queen any time soon.

isn't buffet the guy who gives loads of money to omaha teachers every year?  must be a really terrible, horrible, child-hating type of guy to do something like that...

vbeers - I think you missed the point.

Buffet could do wonderful things with his money AND do unconscionable things with his money.  We aren't faulting him for the GOOD things he does with his money.  We are finding fault with the MILLIONS of dollars he is giving each to year to fund KILLING BABIES.

i didn't miss the point and i certainly don't advocate abortion, however, i think, as previously mentioned, that our energies would be better spent elsewhere.  buffet is, in case you are unaware, one of the wealthiest men in the world.  it won't make a bit of difference to him if we stop buying pampered chef, blizzards, and/or double dipped ice cream cones.  

i think far too often people waste their time, energy, and brain power on things that are truly ineffective.  why not take it upon yourself to instead extend a loving hand to the young men and women in your neighborhood who don't find love in their own homes.  this may in fact prevent far more abortions (and innumerable other hardships)  than any number of people against buffet.

This is an interesting thread. It's a difficult question because I see both sides to this issue. Of course, we want to "cry out" against abortion. But is  "quitting my job" at  a company owned by a Billion dollar corporation the right thing to do? It obviously is affecting this woman's family with her making half her pay. Would God hold her "accountable" for what a billion dollar corporation does?

She's getting her name in articles as a "Christian Crusader" but will she really make an effect? This same Corporation also does a lot of good for schools, etc.  Should she quit her job due to a negative, or continue in her job trying to increase the positive? "Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good". Do we resign because of evil, or continue in "goodness", attempting to double the good things that are done by the same company? We hate abortion, but we continue in that company, making suggestions in the suggestion box, writing letters, and having a good effect on others.

Each one of us can find "evil" in the company we work for. I'm sure if we investigate we'll find many things  dishonouring to the Lord, and which are being used to work against righteousness. Do I quit? Or do I become that "light on top of a hill" that Jesus spoke of? Perhaps I can't change the evil, but I can increase the good!!!

Some Christian groups spend all of their money on advertising and articles about what we "shouldn't be doing" such as what we shouldn't be watching, reading, or doing. They have a "zeal for righteousness". But what if they took that same money and gave it to Wycliffe Bible Translators to help get Bibles to people in the world who don't have a translation in their own language? Or any organization that is working silently behind the scenes accomplsihing great good for God? I think this is more of the true "zeal" God wants to see. Be a light where you are, despite the evil, and help fulfill the Great Commission. Focus on what we "can do" rather than what we "shouldn't be doing".  Just my opinion and I'm open for correction

God bless you,  Joe

although much more eloquently written, my point exactly!

Vbeers----

You and I must have been posting at the same time on your 2nd to last post. if I had read that first there would be no need for me to post too.  I see we are of the same mind on this.

take care, and God bless,  Joe

Joe,

You could be mistaken.  Tara Siler was most likely highly paid, so living on half of her former salary would not cause any serious harm to her family.  Besides, it was her own choice.  If she is doing what God wants her to do, then God will provide for her needs.

It is true that efficient means should be employed to change things for the better.  I don't know how efficient this boycott will be, but the article does say that Buffett is a top contributer to the abortion industry.  This makes him seem like a good target for activism.  Another question would be what percentage of the donations received by the abortion industry come from him, and who else is on the donor list?

Speaking of negativity, another form of negativity is to discourage those who are trying to improve things.  There are many people in the world, and different people have different skills and resources available to them.  Remember that Jesus told his disciples not to discourage those who were doing God's work although not following with them.

Stephen---

You're right--I could very well be mistaken.  Most people who make more money have a tendency to spend more money. But perhaps she has been very frugal and can take having her salary cut in half with no problems.

It just seems that there are a faction of Christians that center on "boycotting" things, and pointing out what you shouldn't watch or read. A lot of the "boycotters" make sure
you know their name and why they started it. Then they become known as "Christian Crusaders" for it(for a time).
This woman quit a billion dollar Corporation because it supports abortion. Abortion is horrible and that's a fact.
But despite getting her name in the paper it's probably not going to make much of a dent at all. Perhaps some people will stop eating donuts for a while.

I remember when "The Last Temptation of Christ" came out and there was a huge outcry. People said "Boycott Universal Studios". A few people probably did for a time, but people love their movies just like they love their donuts, and now all of those people(at least 99% of them) are back watching movies as much as ever.

Imagine if this woman had stated "If I left here I would make half the salary I make now. In protest of this company's policy,I will give half of my present salary to
counselors who may be able to talk young women out of having abortions". She could have still gotten her name in the paper, stayed at her job as a shining light, and been giving to helpless women all at the same time.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think it's profitable to spend my time, money and effort "boycotting" a billion dollar Corporation, when I can take my money, time and effort and give to such things as Wycliffe Bible Translators, or other reputable organizations, to support unnamed faithful Bible translators attempting to get Bibles into the hands of people who don't have them in their language.

A "righteous zeal" to me is not trying to stop the world from doing what it does, but by backing and supporting those who are getting out the Word of God and preaching the Gospel, and helping the poor.

In the early 1900's a "zealous" group of Christians attempted to "ban" alcohol. They stood outside of bars, harrassing the patrons, attempting to embarrass them and get them to stop drinking liquor. They spent "loads" of money in their endeavor on advertising, lobbying, protests, etc.--and they eventually succeeded. But then gangsters started becoming exceedingly wealthy, and more people were drinking than ever because of the black market. This "righteous" endeavor lead to a horrible period in American history where the likes of Al Capone were made famous because of it. Maybe this shows what happens when Christians attempt to "change" the world rather than
convert it.  10 years or so later the amendment was repealed, and all of that labor, money and energy had been wasted on a type of "righteous zeal" not leading to righteousness.

Imagine if all of that money put into protests, boycotts and
marches against alcohol had been put into missionary work, or orphanages, or even medicine. Today we have those who stand outside of abortion clinics and harrass women, hold signs, etc. ---they spend all of their time, money and energy in this endeavor. They funnel "loads" of money into anti-abortion campaigns, trying to "change" the world. I have to ask again, what if all of that money was funneled into missionary work, evangelism, orphanages or even medicine for the poor?

Abortion is terrible and it's horrendous what happens to the unborn. But what if we could think about what is happening to the unsaved?? The unborn don't get a chance
at life, which is terrible. They truly have been "murdered" which is horrendous. I believe they go to be with the Lord.
But the unsaved are already alive, heading to an eternity without Christ. They will "suffer" eternally. And there are millions and millions of them all over the earth! When you start thinking of the Globe, and the Bibleless people, and the unsaved millions, a "boycott" begins to mean little compared with trying to reach people for Christ.

It's a lot of people but we can pray: http://www.gmi.org/ow/     click on "today's country".

Maybe if we put our efforts towards the unsaved, the amount of dead unborn children would diminish much faster.

God bless, Joe

 

Joe Sperling's arguments seem as if they would discourage people from participating in this Pro-Life cause.







(I rewrote this post because the original was poorly worded, sorry about that!)

Stephen,

What color is the sky in your world???

Did you actually read what Joe posted?  Joe is simply suggesting another strategy to combat abortion.  He is simply suggesting taking a higher road to solving this problem.  

Have you ever noticed that protests or boycotts really do nothing to sway peoples opionion....

For example, on a smaller scale, I think back to the Martha Burk protests at the Augusta Golf Course the week of the Masters.  Do you actually think any men who were against women becoming of members of Augusta actually changed their stance..(And no, I am not talking about the men who caved due to the political impact it would have on their careers)  No one changed their mind and no one softened their stance.  The strategy completely backfired and Martha and all her supporters became an absolute joke!!!  It was entirely counterproductive.

My point is this...People who are  actively involved in pro choice/pro life debates are extremely passionate about their cause and very solid on their stance....Stephen - people like you that think picketing, boycotting and causing an absolute ruckus are the way to sways peoples opinion need to get a clue.

Go Joe!!!

After reading Joe's post I don't quite understand how you can say that he is against the Pro-Life cause. I don't think that he is saying that at all.
Read carefully.

stephen- for someone who is so adamantly pro-life, you aren't acting very christian (not that you have to be one to be the other and not that this BB is only for christians).  

successful people are both efficient and effective.  they don't waste their time and energy in vain efforts.  rather, they plan, implement, and manage effective strategies for change.  i would say that joe is dead on (a smart guy) in his assessment of the pro-life movement (and other such efforts).  if we really want to change the world, if our heart's desire is truly to see soul's come to jesus, we will do so with love, virtue, and humility through the spread of the gospel of our lord and savior jesus christ.  

if our goal, on the other hand, is to be judgemental, intolerant, and self-righteous we will make efforts to throw peoples' sin in their face.  we do this via harrassing young, scared, pregnant women at abortion clinics.  we do this by embarassing drunks and drug addicts.  we do this by condemning people with life styles that vary from our own version of christianity.  quite frankly, we have no right.  

remember, "the greatest of these is love".  i have said the following so many times throughout my assembly experience (both while i was "in" and since i've been "out")...if, as christians, we can't reach out to others in love, regardless of the situation, we really need to question our own relationship with the lord...

-virginia

Stephen---

Wow. I am totally amazed at you. As are some others too who have posted below. Didn't you read my post at all?
I can't believe after reading it you could say "Actually he is worried that the effort might be successful and he DOESN'T WANT THAT. Be clear on where he is coming from."

What are you accusing me of Stephen? My whole post was to point out that Jesus said "Go ye into all the world and preach the Gospel"--this was what he commanded us to do.
He didn't say "Go ye into all the world and boycott where you will and protest".  How can  you accuse me of wanting abortions, and inferring I'm coming from some sinister direction? "Be clear on where he is coming from". Just where am I coming from Stephen? Did you take the time to check out the "Operation World" sight set up to pray for the world each day? There are millions of people needing salvation. I put the hyperlink in my post. again: http://www.gmi.org/ow/

If there is anything sinister it's your accusation towards me and your definition of me to others. You have spoken often of "wrong tools" and the devil. One of the devil's major tools is to "accuse the brethren". Why are you accusing me of something that is completely untrue? I'm not Pro-choice by any means. I just feel the best way to defeat evil is to overcome it with good---the more the Gospel message is presented the more people come to Christ. The more people who come to Christ bring more of God's will into the world. Harrassing women isn't going to stop abortion, but preaching the Gospel to the lost could definitely help lessen it.   All the best to you Stephen--I'll pray for you. You're still my brother in Christ.

God bless,  Joe

Joe,

I want to apologize for going to far.  Perhaps your intention was not to hurt the cause, though your arguments are discouraging.  You're right that no one can really know for sure what another's intentions are.  I have no wish to get into a detailed debate about the Pro-Life cause since many people have argued those things at length.  It is a misrepresentation to say that because I am arguing for the Pro-Life cause therefore I am arguing for violence.  If there were a way to make peace with you, I would like to try, but I am not willing to be cowered into backing down on my support of the Pro-Life cause.  I do not want blood on my hands for that.

PROV 31:8 Open thy mouth for the dumb in the cause of all such as are appointed to destruction.

Stephen---

As I mentioned in my E-mail to you, I have never said you should give up or back down from your "pro-life" cause. I am "pro-life" and vote for people who are "pro-life". As I said in my posts, I only question the "means" used to combat abortion. I don't think a "boycott" of Buffet and his billions of dollars is going to accomplish anything. That is just my opinion. I feel that the money put into such "boycott campaigns" would much better be used in trying to get the Gospel out to the "unsaved" who are perishing.

We can get so wrapped up with "stopping" the killing of the unborn that we can stop supporting those "going forth" to preach to the unsaved. I'll state once again that indeed there are many "unborn" killed senselessly, but there are also millions and millions of "unsaved" who are already alive and heading towards perdition.  I am of the opinion that preaching the Gospel and supporting it and showing our love will do far more than any boycott or harrassing of women at clinics will ever accomplish.

Of course, I accept your apology and apologize to you too if I came on too strong. We're brothers in Christ and it's perfectly OK to disagree about things. I hope we can have some more lively discussions in the future.

God Bless,  Joe

i removed your second posting of those articles, stephen. i don't think its necesary to keep posting the same thing repeatedly.

Steve,

Joe advocated a change in tactics, not in stragegic goal.  Go ahead and demonstrate against abortion if you wish.  Realizing that there are different points of view is not "backing down" or "cowering".

Joe,
Many young women have reconsidered at the last moment when confronted outside an abortion clinic.  Babies have been saved.  There is no question of that.  So...it seems to me it has a place.

Many of these girls are scared kids with evil counsellors telling them that abortion is ok and is their only hope.  Sometimes a warm and compassionate person talking to them will help them to change their minds.

I doubt if seeing someone waving a large poster of a dead baby and screaming "Murderer" does much good.

ON BOYCOTTS

A few years ago the Southern Baptists announced that their denomination was boycotting Disneyland and Disney products because they have a lot of occult/new age ideas in their movies, plus they have a subsidiary that makes dirty movies.

I haven't noticed that there is any real effect at all.  So, what good does it do for a few thousand to boycott a huge international corporation?


ON QUITTING

The United States of America has supports abortion and sodomy through a bogus "right to privacy" found in invisible ink somewhere in the Constitution.   Only left leaning Supreme Court Justices can see it, apparently.

So...how many are ready to quit?

Thomas Maddux

Tom---

Thanks for the input. I guess I have a tendency when thinking of the "protestors" at the clinics to think of media
clips I have seen of people shouting "sinner!!" or "baby killer!!" at women entering, and  at the doctors especially.

It just doesn't jive with how Jesus treated the "woman caught in adultery". I have seen people holding the signs with grotesque pictures on them and chanting in front of hospitals at times and wondered how "wacky" this appears to non-christians, and what kind of testimony it really is.
But a genuine concern and loving approach at these places, as you say, could really do some good.

As far as "boycotts" go I would have to agree with you that they just don't seem to do much good. They might make the person participating feel they are doing what is "right", and God is on their side, but in the actual statistical realm
they fall short almost every time.

The only boycott I ever got involved in was the "Universal Studios Boycott" after the "Last Temptation of Christ" came out. It lasted about a month, then some great movie came out. I thought(as did hundreds of others) "I'll watch just this one movie then I'll go back to boycotting Universal again". Well, you know how that goes, it's about as effective as being on a diet and saying "just this one chocolate shake and then back to the diet again".

Oh, speaking of chocolate shakes, I do habitually boycott exercise Gyms. They are horrendous places where people talk about giving up fattening foods. And I know that the Bible teaches we should eat ALL THINGS with gladness of heart, and call nothing unclean. Any place that would try to force a distaste for fatty foods, or chocolate cake is teaching heresy and should be avoided like the plague.
I also boycott weight scale manufacturers because they try to distort the facts. But besides that I'm boycott free. :D

Oh well, take care Tom and God bless you,   Joe

Well, I guess I've been defeated.

Not only that, I've proven myself worse than a fool by having answered Joe hastily and unkindly.

I am pro-life.  I am not on the side of Joe nor on the side of Steve as I am writing this.  What I do want to say is from a woman's perspective who has LIVED THE ISSUE OF ABORTION, I think I have something to say regarding the subject.

18 years ago, as a 22 year old, unmarried, pregnant woman, I had a choice before me.  The majority of counsel I received, was to have an abortion.  I even had the Dean of my school take me out to lunch and tell me that I HAD to have an abortion, that I would be wasting my life if I went ahead with the pregnancy.  I only had two, let me repeat that - I only had two people, who said I could not go ahead and have an abortion.  

But what was the most influential thing?  A dear friend (one of the two) came to me with some casette tapes on abortion from John MacArthur.  These were graphic.  I was not a christian at the time, and in fact had been pro-choice my whole, young life.  I was sick after listening to these tapes!  I, in fact, was very angry at this friend who asked that I listen to these tapes.  The result?  I have a sixteen year old daughter.  My friend used means that, at the time, I was horrified at.  I thought, "How dare she!"  But I am forever grateful to her.

Please understand that previous to this, I had been adamantly pro-choice.  You see, my aunt died when I was three years old of an illegal abortion (her boyfriend, who was a pre-med student, attempted to perform an abortion on her).  I was a staunch advocate of pro-choice.  But having gone through the experience myself, I am so thankful that someone took a risk, did the "unpopular" thing and challenged my choice to an abortion.  

My point?  We don't know what is going to affect even one woman from making a choice to bring her baby to term, rather than having an abortion.  There are different methods................the point is to impact a woman's decision to not make a decision that she will regret for the rest of her life and cause the death of her unborn child.

Stephen---

You have by no means been "defeated".  You have stated your case for a "boycott" and should by all means do what you think is right. This is a Bulletin Board where we all state
our opinions. I personally don't think boycotts really work, but perhaps you do. It may not be the popular opinion, but you do what you feel the Lord is leading you to do.

Tom had mentioned below that women can be dissuaded form having abortions by the people meeting them at the clinics. I disagree with people who "harrass" women, but if there are people giving gentle council and they are able to talk them out of it, then I am wrong for saying or inferring that protests are all "wrong". This is not a black/white issue in the way the Assembly always saw things. It was either one way or the other--no middle ground. But I am willing to admit I could be wrong on my stand.

Kimberly below has stated that she was helped by someone really taking the time to speak with her. Her 16 year old daughter is a result of that.  I am far more directed towards evangelism than preventing abortion. But as you stated in your E-mail to me, God has many and varied causes and ways of accomplishing what he wants. I'm sorry if I sounded completely "one-sided" in what I was saying.

If money is put into "anti-abortion" campaigns and it is done with the loving mercy and Grace of the Lord I think that is a good thing. I would disagree with the shouting and chanting and labeling of people that can take place at those clinics. In my opinion the money to organize protests like that is wasted. I also feel that trying to boycott a billion dollar corporation is not a logical thing to do. the money used to do this could be put into other far more positive things for the furthering of the Gospel. But again, this is just my opinion. If your cause is really strong you cannot be "defeated", especially by a few posts on a bulletin board.

All the best to you Stephen and God bless you,  Joe

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Roger:
I received this letter from the founder/chairman of Pampered Chef, Doris Christopher, today and thought you might be very interested and would want to pass this along to your reader's list.
Robin Nagel

---------- Forwarded Message ----------

We are pleased to provide you with the following letter from Doris Christopher.  You are welcome to share this letter with others.  This information is being communicated to you, our sales field, in the following manner.  A hard copy of this letter will be mailed to you next week.

* 4:45p.m. - ExecuFlash - Exec. Directors and above
* 5:15p.m. - E-mail blast - Director levels
* 5:45p.m. - E-mail blast - All Consultants U.S. and Canada
All times listed above are Central Standard Time.

Dear Kitchen Consultants:

I have shared with you my pride in being a part of the Berkshire Hathaway family of businesses.  I knew that this was the kind of family where The Pampered Chef would thrive and grow for years to come.  I have also shared with you my feelings of respect for Warren Buffett.

Today, I am even more proud to call Warren my mentor, leader and friend.

This week I went to Warren with a heavy heart.  I told him that many of our Kitchen Consultants were concerned and troubled with Berkshire Hathaway's donation policies - specifically the contributions to pro-choice organizations and to the Buffett Foundation.  I knew that I could speak with Warren frankly and that he would want to hear of the issues impacting your business.

It troubled him deeply that charitable donations from Berkshire Hathaway were causing you difficulty.  He listened to me carefully and with great compassion.  He understands that as his family of Berkshire companies expands, it becomes more diverse, and there are opinions and concerns that need to be taken into consideration.  Warren Buffett made a landmark decision regarding the long-standing corporate giving policies of Berkshire Hathaway.  His decision was this:

Effective immediately, Berkshire Hathaway will cease all corporate contributions of any kind to any non-profit organization.  This means there will be no donations from Berkshire Hathaway to the Buffett Foundation.  Let me be clear, there will be no possibility of any Pampered Chef profits being donated to any cause other than those we initiate, including our three current charitable giving programs: Round-Up from the Heart, Help Whip Cancer and the Family Resiliency Program.

Warren Buffett made his landmark decision after hearing what was in my heart and in yours.  I believe that Kitchen Consultants, hosts and customers are a diverse group of individuals with different opinions and beliefs.  Our business is built on trust and on personal relationships.  Warren understands our business and wants you to be successful in every way, able to do business with people of all backgrounds and beliefs.

I admire Warren Buffett for his heart and his insight.  He is a wise leader!

Thank you for all you do to make this company strong.


Doris K. Christopher
Founder and Chairman

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