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I read on the Rick Ross site that someone thought the "pierced ear" rule was set in force because some African brother didn't like pierced ears.  I don't think that's the real reason.

I think the real reason is Sue Sapia.  Sue Sapia was a worker BEFORE she got married and then she married Chris Sapia, a leading brother.  So she was in neck deep.  Anyhow, she got it into her head that somehow the Bible said that you should not pierce your ears.  When I was in fellowship, you were allowed to wear pierced earrings and Sue publicly said that this was a matter of her own conscience and didn't try to push it on anybody.

BUT Sue was a worker and the wife of a leading brother.  And sometime, I don't know when, after I left fellowship, it became suddenly SINFUL to pierce your ears or wear pierced earrings if you already had pierced ears.

Very silly, really.  But it shows the lack of discernment in the group!

How about a pierced ... NOSE? ??   :o

I had "brother Timothy" approach me (and probably others, including my husband-to-be) several times "encouraging" me to take it out.  Apparently, I could never go on a missions trip to Africa with him, because when the folks get saved over there, they must forsake the ritual piercings, and my nose piercing would stumble them/compromise the testimony.  Yikes.

I did end up taking it out, partially out of a desire to conform, also recognizing that I did do out it out of rebellion in my very early twenties, God probably didn't like it AND last but not least, I couldn't grow old with it very gracefully - it had to come out sometime!   ;)

There was much rejoicing when I took it out.   ;D

Funny stuff.

You know, there is a negative opinion about piercings in a LOT of churches.  Not usually pierced ears -- that's culturally acceptable.  But the other piercings -- nose, eyebrow, belly-button -- I think many churches frown upon them.  My mother, a devout Roman Catholic who doesn't think for herself, told my family at the dinner table that she had heard that piercings are Pagan.  My brother and I rounded on her and said in one voice, "Well, they're WRONG!!"  She was pretty mad at us for doing that, but she had bad information.  Piercings might have roots in Pagan cultures, but they also have roots in Jewish culture, so on what basis are you going to condemn these piercings?

I don't think God condemns piercings, though.  Quite frankly, I think God could care less.

But back to pierced ears.  Do you think it was really a brother from Africa that caused the pierced ears rule or did it spring from Sue Sapia like I'm theorizing?  It wasn't in place when I left, so I don't really know.  

Any information would be helpful!

God bless,
Amy

I have two theories on the pierced earing rule:

1) Since none of the hierarchcy of the assembly (Tim, George, David)  had real jobs, they had way to much time on their hands.  Due to lack of things to do, they made stupid rules to enforce on the saints.

2)  Theory number two is that George Geftakys was concerned about his son Tim Geftakys'  extreme feminine tendecies.  Perhaps George put the earings rule in to block Tim from wearing long earings out in public.

I LOVE your theory about the stupid rules!  Let me see if I can think of a rule.  Okay -- all head coverings have to be white.  Black is "of the devil" and any other color doesn't symbolize purity.  Wait a second.  While looking for a verse that will back my new "teaching" I found very scary verses that really describe the Assembly:

"There is a group of people that curses its father and blesses not its mother.  There is a group that is pure in its own eyes, yet is not purged of its filth." -- Proverbs 30:11-12

Verse 11 reminds me of how we treated our families.  We didn't.  Families weren't involved in the Assembly and were therefore beneath us.  They came second to everything.  

Verse 12 is so obvious I don't think I even need to comment.

I didn't know about Tim Geftakys.  He'd look weird in long earrings alright.

God bless,
Amy

I'm very glad I never came under that rule!  And glad that even then people could see it was ridiculous! :)

I recall that one Sister had gone to visit Fullerton from our assembly and came back and told the other sisters that she had met with Betty and Betty had told her that wearing earrings was not God's will because it was a pagan practice.  Besides, sisters in California had stopped wearing them also so she followed suit.  When our sister came back, within a week most or all of the sister wanted to follow the "godly example" of Betty in order to be "good examples" to others.  So from what I can remember, it was probably Betty who started it.

I cannot remember the verses from the OT, but there are some verses that speak against mutilating your body.  However, one has to be careful what one follows in the Bible--a book written according to a past time and culture.  If the Assembly was so based on the Bible, why did we not greet one another with a holy kiss?  Simple:  that was a tradition of the culture of the time the Bible was written:  so were head coverings, etc.

Regardless, wearing earrings SHOULD have been a matter of private conscience, BUT "standards of godliness" that were equated with the Will of God for those in Committed Fellowship basically "encouraged" sisters to conform to the rules that people in positions of authority introduced over time.  Other examples of such rules that should have been a matter of personal concience:  dating, owning TVs, etc.  The point is, under the old Assembly system, you were not considered "a good example," etc. unless you conformed to the Assembly rules, i.e., what George/Betty, etc. thought was the will of God.  The workers had to submit to George so everyone had to submit to George through the leadership of the local assembly, the leadership that George approved of to enforce HIS will, not God's will.  

If people are still not wearing earrings or are asking permission to date, etc., they are still following an old system and living in the shadow of George's will, not God's will.  "The Pattern of New Testament Simplicity" or "The House of God" was George's (and a few others') interpretation of the Bible, a system that he then used to enforce his conscience/his idea of God's will on others.  This system robbed people of deciding God's will for themselves and it will be one of the many things in George's life that will burn away as chaff at the judegement seat.  

Hi Will,

Greetings from igloo # 62 in Ottawa.  Your igloo has melted and you will have to re-build when you return.  8)

The law of the ear-rings was fully enforced after a worker's conference.  Actually we were told that it was only for the workers, but since the workers were the 'spiritual bunch' we all faithfully followed their example.  One rebellious worker sister never complied to the law of the pierced ears and actually got away with it.  Amazing!! BTW this is a compliment to the sister, because she did not go with the flow. :)

Things have changed here, people are starting to unclog their peirced ears by stuffing pierced ear-rings in them. But, actually is is the same old story.  People are still following 'trends' and 'fashions'.
The latest fashion is 'imitation' repentance. Kind of reminds me of imitation crab meat - looks like crab meat, tastes like crab meat, but it's Alaskan Pollock.  Before we imitated BIG-name LB from guess-where in his faithfulness to enforce Geftakysism.  Now we imitate the same BIG-name ex-LB in the way he is demonstrating his repentance.
The 'code of silence' is still enforced. And so is 'preserve-the-testimony-at-all-costs'.
I am no longer 'in' fellowship in the assembly.  My departure has revealed that people still 'in' react in the same 'old' habitual ways, even though they have claimed to have repented from Geftakysism.  I do not believe that it is possible to uproot Geftakysism that easily and especially not without outside help.

Anyway, that's all for now.
Lord bless,
Marcia M

The entire Bible is not relevant? What part is? What part do I discard?

What if I think putting piercings throughout my body is something the Lord would not approve of? What if I think that having a TV in my home will defile my family? What if I don't like the idea of some guy sucking on my 16 year old daughter's face or perhaps worse.

Moral values and standards are not copyright. The assembly did not invent them. Others may hold to those convictions. Breaking from assembly thought is not outward defiance of their decree. It is something inside.

Oh, don't mind Will.  He just doesn't believe the Bible is infallible and divinely inspired, that's all.

You're right brother. The point that Will was making was that the assembly imposed standards, some of which were unnecessary.  The LBs controlled rather than shepherded and guided (generally speaking).  Many issues were not issues of sin, but of having a different opinion. But the pressure was 'on' to conform to the LBs opinion, even on simple matters like buying a car e.g.

Lord bless,
Marcia

James and Arthur:  I greet you with a holy kiss!   ;)

James, you asked me, "The entire Bible is not relevant? What part is? What part do I discard?"  Why are you asking me?  YOU need to think for yourself and seek God's will for YOU rather than go by the standards of what other people (Christian or non-Christian) think are right.  The point I am making is the Bible was written for a different place and time than most of us face.  It does not talk about cars, etc.  If you want to follow the Bible to the letter, then start greeting your brethren with a holy kiss and share all things in common like they did in the early church.  Go and sell all that you have and preach the gospel.  And be sure to speak in tongues and exercise all the rest of the gifts of the spirit.  NO?  Oh... Things do change.   Your situation is different than what the original recipients of the letters faced.  The question you have to ask yourself is--based on my understanding of the Bible and the reality I face in modern society--what do I believe God wants me to do in areas that are not made clear in the Bible.  So please be sure to answer your questions YOURSELF.  This is not the old Assembly where everything was very clear as rules or "godly standards."  

Marica has simplified what I meant to communicate.  Thanks, Sister!  If you are being "shunned" at present for deciding what you believe God's will is for you (re involvement in the old/new Assembly) then rejoice in Galatians 5:1ff--the verse I once "got approached by the leadership" for sharing in ministry.

Arthur, clearly you have not bothered to understand what I have written in the past.  I DO in fact believe the Bible is inspired, but the Bible was written according to a past cultural understanding of science, history and cosmology; thus, according to our modern perspective, the Bible is not infalible.  But this strays off topic and Verne has already tried to have a go at me so let us just stick to the subject at hand... or on ear.  Earrings! :)  Yes, I believe the Bible is a valuable guide but we must read it and interpret it with our mind instead of allowing some person to tell us what a "godly example" or what God's will is.  

My point is, as Marcia so cogently summarized, you have to use your mind to decide what God's will is for you and in areas where that is unclear in the Bible it is wrong to impose your conception of God's will on others.  Some eat meat sacrificed to idols and others don't.  As Paul said, LET EACH BE FULLY CONVINCED IN THEIR OWN MIND.  To insist that someone follows your conception of God's will is to impose your will on others.  This is not God's way--God has given us free will!  

Thank God! :D

Simple areas, like buying a car.....

A few years ago I was driving an old suburban and it kept breaking down. Everytime I took it to the mechanic I would come out with a whopping bill. I also hauled a horse trailer most of the time and the old suburban just didn't have enough go to get up the hills. So I started looking around for a pick up truck, diesel. I had read Consumer Reports and discovered for that year that Ford was number one. I didn't ask the leadership if I could. I figured this was business. So, yes, I bought the Ford F-350, Super Cab, Turbo Diesel, 4x4. It has all the qualities of hauling that horse trailer fully loaded with four horses up the hill with no gasping...

I showed up at a Bible Study with it, parked it on the street, walked in casually. I never made it inside because a LB stepped in front of me and blocked the entrance. "What is that you are driving?", I was asked. "A ford", was my response. "What's wrong with the suburban?", I was asked by the LB "I drive one, isn't it good enough for you?" He said in a real snotty tone. I said"It would be good enough for me if I hadn't just sunk $4,000. in repairs into it and it is still broken.." The next line of questioning, angered me. "Where did you get the money to pay for it?"

I ran across this question alot, Where did you get the money to pay for it and why do you have so much stuff?
Alot of this made me angry and I started questioning other things. I believe it was part of the catalyst that got me out.

One question: What business is it of yours?  I did ask! I got back the, well we are concerned about you. You'd think that if I could run a horse ranch I would have enough brains to find the right truck!

Heide

You really ought to publish the name of this imbecile so the apporpriate amount of scorn can be duly heaped upon him. We helped  to create despicable cretins such as this...
Verne

Heide -

What on earth were you thinking buying a new vehicle!!!

That money you spent could have bought a lot of new auto parts or pornography for David Geftakys.  Tim Geftakys really could have used that money for a family vacation!

Shame on you for being so self centered!

Oh my!  "Must...control...fist of death."  I am dumbfounded.  What in the world possessed the l.b. meet you at the door to grill you on your truck?

Makes no sense.

In the 70's George did this on two separate occasions to two different brothers in Fullerton, when they drove up in cars he didn't approve of because they were too expensive.  And he told the workers about it as an example of what is not acceptable and how to deal with it.  The lesson that  came home to me was those cars represented financial resources that should have been given to the Lord's treasury instead.  In both cases, the brothers got rid of the nice cars and replaced them with old ones.

The entire Bible IS relevant, and the Word of God.  However, it must be carefully and reasonably interpreted.  You don't, for example, interpret a poetry book the same way you interpret a history book.  I think that's what is being said here.  George Geftakys did pretty much whatever he wanted with it and FORCED (coerced, manipulated) other people to do the same.  He didn't allow people to think for themselves.  That's what's so evil about the system.

If these are your moral standards, you are, of course, entitled to live them.  The beauty of it is that this is YOUR choice.  Your free, personal choice.  What was bad about the Assembly is that they MADE people do whatever they said through fear and intimidation, rather than letting people check for themselves whether or not the Assembly's "rules" were true or God's will.

I read your story, Heide -- glad to see you here.

You must have been considered quite an "uppity" sister.  A horse ranch and a truck!  Wow!  And you thought for yourself!  Quite dangerous!

You should have given all that money to The Work, you know!  *snort*

God bless,
Amy

Hi Amy,

Considering how the Mission Training Teams were virtually a dating service. It amazes me that I was never asked to go on one!!!

Heide

P.S. Yes I wore gold hoops, the bigger the better. I just waited for someone to say something.... I do remember an incident with some African brother and his wife and we were asked to not wear gold hoops to the fellowship. Of course we were also asked not to wear shorts or sleeveless tops too. Since I didn't have anything to wear, I didn't go. Apparently the  sister from Africa did wear gold hoops, big ones! I found out afterwards that in their culture short pants are a sign of poverty. I guess George wanted us to look well off....

Oh sure Arthur,

You must not have been around when I bought the ranch and asked all you brothers to help me move! It was one of the sorriest days of my life and I couldn't wait for all of you to leave. The ridicule that I got for owning so much stuff. "How could I afford to have so many nice things?" Being grilled for why I had bought so much land and what did I intend to do with it. Treating me like I had no brain. It was at that moment that I determined if a Proverbs 31 woman ever did walk into the midst of the assembly she would NEVER be able to do ANY of those things listed, like buy a field.....

Heide

Arthur, c'mon, who owned a suburban and was an LB and WHO yelled at me when Jeff L repented at the meeting. You can figure this one out....

You bought the ranch...and yet you are still here with us among the living?  :)

No, I'm sooo sorry I was not around to help with that. ::)  I have a few moving stories myself.  No pun intended.
Seems like I was always helping people move.  David's move was the worst.  And I did help in the Francis move, more on that below.


Were the leaders there too?  I'm having a hard time picturing that being the case since you weren't a worker or anything they'd consider important enough to help.  If not, I wonder who asked you that.
I'm suprised you didn't tell those young whipper-snappers to go take a hike, jump in a creak and/or go fly a kite!

Though, I do remember thinking similar thoughts about all the stuff that Francis had--filled a large-sized Uhaul.  I didn't know how any one person could accumulate so much stuff.  Everything that I had fit in my car.  Well, that was before I graduated from college :)  Just giving you the young brother who was never anything more than a peon perspective. ^^


Hahaha!  Good point!


Ah yeah, that's who I thought.   Sheesh.  Must...control...fist of death again.

You probably weren't ever asked on the Mission Training Teams because you didn't fit the "mission profile."  I didn't either, but for different reasons.

God had my husband waiting for me when I came home to Colorado.  I am eternally grateful for that!!!

I remember helping Heide move that day.  Her move was definitely not sanctioned by the leadership.  None of the leaders were there, and I don't remember any enthusiastic pleas for help at the prayer meeting, etc.  I remember only the Foys and the Tr0ckmans helping Heide move, along with a couple of singles and myself (the Foys and the Tr0ckmans left the assembly a few months later).

Shortly after Heide moved, she stopped coming to the meetings.  I remember thinking how terrible I thought it was that she stopped coming to the meetings after we had done so much to help her.  I was trying to earn her loyalty to the group by doing nice things for her.  Has anyone else thought this way?

I also remember giving the Cesaretti's a hard time about the amount of things they had when they moved.  We were just a wonderful bunch, weren't we?

Jack

Hi Marcia:
Do you realise that at the time George was busily building his empire there were quite a number of bretheren who knew exactly what kind of man he was? These bretheren were unfaithful and did many of us a terrible dis-service by their silence. George's un-repentant dicsiples should all be identified and all God's people everywhere duly warned about these ravenous wolves...
Verne


How could we possibly have descended to this...????!!!! Did  NO ONE interject BROTHER THAT IS NOT YOUR BUSINESS??!!
No wonder he fleeced us...


Awww...! Go ahead and unleash it...
Verne

I remember helping Heide move that day too! ;D I remember being jealous of you, Heide, because you lived on your own and you were miles away from the "saints"and the Assembly influence.  I remember you asking me to stay at the ranch while you and the others went back to pick up stuff from Paso.  I remember unpacking your china.  I had a lot of time to think while up there.  I really wanted to get out of that goofey group, but felt to obligated to stay.  Anyways, I never thought you had too much stuff!  I admired you for having such nice pieces of furniture... ;)

You can put my name on the list, after Jack's 8). I do not intend to name names unless absolutely necessary.  I personally was not involved in 'car' counselling, but I was involved in the 'system', so I declare that I am guilty too.

The point I was attempting to make is that the same problems existed in most all the assemblies, which indicates the influence of one leader - Guess Who??
This is very indicative of a cult-like mentality.

Marcia

Thanks Eulaha,

You are still welcome at the ranch! Too bad you didn't split then instead of having to deal with TG....

Heide

Thanks Heide!  ;D

I just wanted to let you know, I always thought you were a really nice person. ;)

I remember being told that our cars had to be practical.  Preferably an inexpensive large four door suitable for taking saints to meetings and outreach.  I remember thinking it strange of how proud George was of his Thunderbird.  When he was with small groups of brothers, he just beamed with pride as he talked about how fast his car was when he stepped on the gas.  I could never figure out how this was a practical car unless it was so that George wouldn't waste his valuable time getting to meetings, because he had a fast car that wasn't slowed down with passengers. ::)  I assumed that George was just trying to impress the brothers with his car stories.  Of course George would always mention how he didn't choose or buy the car, but that the Lord provided it for him. (i.e. those who gave the car to George were trying to earn George's favor).  Actually, I can remember cases of DG and TG having the same automobile idolization problem that their father had.  Like father, like son. :P

I remember getting a stern lecture from Ginger when I questioned her as to how Tim could afford his shiny new red convertible. ::)

Eulaha -

You should be ashamed of yourself.  Tim worked very hard for that shiny new red convertible.  It takes a lot of effort to take 15% of all of the saints  pay checks.  

On top of the that, he needed that convertible...It was a complete and total necessity.  What would all the hot babes in Southern California think of him if he was driving around in a mini van?

They might think more highly of him if he sticks with the minivan.  A convertible with the top down affords too much of a view of the car's driver.     :P

Good point Arthur.

I don't know if a convertible could hold as much weight as Tim G carries either.  A minivan may be the safer bet.

Hmm, yeah, his best bet might be to go with an H2.