AssemblyBoard

So, I went somewhere interesting this weekend.  I listened as Mike Zach once again preached at the wedding of his son Daniel to Anna Wiewandt.  It looked pretty much like always-strange man reads bible  and expects laughter at the right intervals while his audience grows more stupid with each passing moment.  Of course, their was no magic though; unless you consider being able to stand up in front of 200 people after all that has happened, magical.  

P.S.  Assembly receptions are so fun!  No drinking, no dancing, no music-makes for a really rocking time!  Next time I want to be so bored I cry, I'll look for another ass. wedding to attend. :P

Hey Caan,

Give a guy a break! He can't preach at his own son's wedding? And you must be some friend of theirs to go to the wedding and then dis them here. Didn't Mike Zach repent? This is getting a little witch hunty don't you think?

 Thanks Tom!  I really needed that.  Of course you're exactly right.  How dare I think evil thoughts in my head(and on this board) about this man.  He did apologize, right?  Forgive and forget?  I guess I should have no problem with him jumping so quickly back into the driver's seat ready and willing to interpret gospel for us.  After all, he only misbehaved in the most minor sense and for such a short time.  I guess it wasn't a prolonged, blatant, coverup of abuse and long years of misuse of power.  I'll try to remember your fair and true words next time I feel that years of my childhood were stolen that will never be returned.

P.S.  I was at the wedding because I knew Anna from CA.  Is that wrong too?  Should I skip a friend's wedding because I don't like the groom's father?

Hey Caan,

Give a guy a break! He can't preach at his own son's wedding? And you must be some friend of theirs to go to the wedding and then dis them here. Didn't Mike Zach repent? This is getting a little witch hunty don't you think?

Tom,

Since 'hunty' is a word now-here's some to rhyme.  Perhaps you can use them in your next post....punty..grunty...stunty...bunty...brunty...blunty...I'm sure there's more...

Here's another word for you Caan, touchy, touchy!!

You need to believe bigger things of God. Can you say to Him, "I lost my childhood becuase of You!"? Where was God when Mike was ruining things for you? I think if you look hard enough you will be very blessed. Sure there were wrong things in the assemblies, but there were many right things too  which I'm sure the Lord used to keep you, even guide you.

And I'm not even suggesting we forgive and forget. Yes we need to forgive, but it's fatal to forget. I'm just saying we ought to give a guy a break at his own son's wedding. Even the worst of repentent sinners need to have a life. Imagine if God actually forgave Mike! I'm sure Mike will never forget all those years of wrong-doing and what is he to do with all those lost years?

hey caan.. were you at the awesome frisbee / football time later on?  it was sooo much fun.  I understand, maybe you don't like sports - but there was free food inside too.  Anyway, I had a blast.

I understand where you are coming from about the 'no drinking, no dancing, no music.... no fun" comment, but i'm guessing you must not have had alot of friends there.  Music, dancing, and drinking or not, if you've got a bunch of friends to catch up with and talk to, you're gonna have a good time, right?

well... honestly, i'm sorry you didn't have a good time.  I guess i just had a different perspective.

p.s.  although i have never personally heard a man preach his own sons wedding before, this wedding was one of the best i've ever been to - mikes address included.

Hi All  :)

Joseph, it's great that you had such a good time. Caan is not from the mid-west hence it was not the same for him. And I'm sure that it was a very nice wedding.

I was wondering about a different aspect re. ex-LBs preaching and performing weddings. The marriage is still legal in God's eyes, but if LBs have stepped down from leadership, then why are they performing weddings? This is not just about Mike Z BTW, other ex-LBs have also recently performed weddings.
According to the law of the LBs and workers which could not be changed, King G had decreed that only LBs performed weddings in the assembly system.  This may also have had something to do with state laws, and recognition of 'authority' figures. I do not know.

Any comments?

Marcia

i've always wondered what the legal qualifications are for a state-recognized wedding.  It seems they are not particularly exclusive.  However, from the perspective of why a former LB would preach a wedding, i would assume it is because the people getting married asked them to preach it.  I doubt they are begging for the opportunity to do it.

Joseph,
I was not at the football/frisbee time.  I'm glad you had a good time and I agree that having many friends present would have helped the event seem less lame for me.  However, I left the assembly before all the lies were exposed and I felt the iron curtain drop between me and most of my assembly "friends" because of it.  So, while you saw a lot of people you wanted to catch up with, I was surrounded by a roomful of hypocrites.

Tom,
I'm sure Mike really appreciates all of your kind words.  He really is the victim here isn't he?  There will always be a place for people like you in the world, Tom, maintaining the status quo.

This is pretty cold...To rip on someones wedding is a low blow.  This has nothing to do with the assembly - this is two peoples special day.  Who they have speak and what activities they have at their reception is entirely up to them.

Uh Oh,
    Somehow-I don't feel really bad about it.

Greetings Caan:

About the time I had enough of the assembly, MZ paid a visit. I was sitting in my metal chair and out of the corner of my eye I noticed him giving me the death stare >:(. The old "I know who you are and what you are thinking" type mental game the arrogant and manipulative play with lesser mortals to intimidate and establish their own superiority. Know what I mean? I got irritated and finally turned my head in his direction and looked him in the eye with the same look. He turned away. I never ever sought any counsel/contact with him. I vaguely remember his sermonette was about the authority of the leadership....
You are right. He is just a polished con man. Try to get it out of your system as soon as possible so that your experience(s) doesn't warp you (I'm not suggesting that you are warped). You probably have every reason to be cynical and don't need any more lame advice. Pardon mine.

Hmm, that's interesting.  His brother Rod preached a similar message in Fullerton about how AWESOME the authority that God gives to his representatives here on earth is.  I'm really not liking this guy.
I think I'm getting a more complete picture here of their family.  At first I thought it was just because they were former Catholics, but now it seems to be a family character trait.  Oh wait, am I becoming like them in saying "You know, you have a history of doing such and such...shows a real character flaw."    ::) :P

Sorry to jump in here on the bash Mike bandwaggon.  I agree with Tom and Joseph that a wedding is and should be a fun time, a time where maybe we can forget about all the bad stuff.  Unfortunately, I must say that I doubt all the assembly is out of the assembly weddings or Mike for that matter.  But there is still hope, right?

i'd have to agree with the general sentiment, caan - your frustration is getting the better of you. its quite reasonable and to be expected that mike would preach at his own son's wedding, and to bellyache about having to sit through a friend's wedding is just bad form. but its also true that those of us who left years ago and felt the full weight of the iron curtain settle around us have a whole extra layer of issues between us and assembly folks.


i think the answer to this question tells us volumes about ourselves. of course, there were many good influences in my life growing up in the assembly, but i started out thinking the assembly was all good and the more i looked and the more i learned the worse it got - far worse than i had ever imagined it could get. so hearing that if we just look at our lives hard enough we will be very blessed kind of yanks my chain. but i agree with your basic point that we'll be better off focusing on the good than focusing on the negative - while not forgetting the harsh reality of the negative.

brian

Sebastian,
I know that look exactly!  He always appeared to be trying to see right through me into the hidden darkness of my soul of something.  He believed himself to be something of a master of human charachter.  I remember as a child I had the hiccups and he told me to hiccup in his hand(obviously thinking the pressure of a large powerful man with the expectation of a hiccup in his hand would stop my hiccups dead in their tracks.)  I looked him straight in the eye, waited a second, and hiccuped in his hand.  I dissapointment of the group surrounding us was tangible.  He gave me a displeased look.  Whoops!

I really don't think Mike is a con man...I really think Mike had good intentions going into this whole ordeal way back when.   Its not like he was going around driving Jeep Cherokees and Convertibles like a certain other family was.  I think Mike is human, and when he realized the crimes and faults taking place in the assembly hierarchy, he was painted into a corner.  Rather than take a stand and risk his income, he chose the easy way out.  He probably stayed silent and  hoped this thing would blow over.  Does this make it right...Absolutely not.  However, calling him a con man is a bit of a stretch.  He is simply a guy who got way in over his head and made some devastating decisions.

The thing that still gets me is that all of these former  leaders have "apologized".  The bottom line is that had they not been caught, not one of them would have come clean.  The only thing they are sorry about is the fact they got caught and it ruined their little power trips.

Same here, what a nightmare.  Still makes me angry.  We were betrayed.  


I agree.  That's a good way of putting it, Brian.  How else should we live our lives?  Focusing on the negative sucks and doesn't help anything.  But we do not forget (as if we could) how we've been burned lest it happen again.  

Hehe, you didn't perform for him and made him look somewhat less than all-powerful.  Tsk tsk, the nerve.  Kids can do the darndest things.

I have always wondered: can an ordinary man marry people?  Like Mike Zach, for example.  He's not a real pastor...how is it he is allowed to marry anyone?  Just wondering... ???

Eulaha,
    I believe just about anyone can get a license to marry people.  Remember Joey married Monica and Chandler on "Friends"?  I think you really can get a license to marry over the internet.  In fact, that's where I'm headed right now.....

I don't know if I would call Mike an ordinary man (in the past he has exhibited behavior that I hope would not be often seen in ordinary folk ;)), but I would think that it would be fairly easy for someone like Mike to get the appropriate license to perform legally recognized marriages.  Requirements for licensing probably vary by state, but include people such as justices of the peace, notary publics, county clerks, sea captains, ordained ministers...  If for some reason Mike could not get the appropriate license, the couple to be married could always get a quick legal ceremony by a JP, and then get Mike to do a ceremony as well.

uh oh-

i agree that the zachs had and still have good intentions.  they were very dear to my family in many ways.  caan, have you ever been married?  i am married and i think my wedding was the best one ever!!  :)  i think that is how everyone should feel after their big day.  i know that the zachs felt dan's wedding was perfect and regardless of how horrible the assembly system was / is, i agree that bashing such an event is a bit overkill.

uh oh,  you said that you are disheartened that had the lb's not ever been caught they never would have apologized.  i agree this to be true.  but, do you think that they knew that what they were doing was wrong?  i mean, i left almost ten years ago but didn't realize until "the fall" how deeply i had been scarred by the assembly...for instance, there is nothing i love to see more than young people (especially high school and college students) living a life for the Lord.  HOWEVER, i still, to this day, do not feel adequate to have that kind of relationship / communion with the Lord.  why???  b/c i was never good enough when i was "IN"...

In California anyone you recognize as competent can perform the ceremony.

What makes the marriage legal is the marriage license.

I "married" Mark and Sindy Campbell.  I signed the license and mailed it in in the envelope that comes with it.  They sent it back because I hadn't filled out the box that said "Official Title".  (What if I had just tossed it?) ;D

I finally wrote "minister" and mailed it back.

So, they are legal.  I guess?   ::)

Thomas Maddux

At least in California the only thing needed is witnesses.  There is actually special provisions for "religious groups with no recognized clergy."

I don't know how it works in other states, but there are probably similar loopholes.

Let's hope so! Otherwise, all the couples married in the assemblies would be...well, you figure it out... ;D

And wouldn't THAT! be a fine mess...what else could happen??? :P

Another interesting aspect about marriage law in California: if both people believe that the marriage was valid, it is.  At worst, it might break down into a common-law marriage.

If these marriages were done before God, and I believe they were, then the worst that would be the case with state law would be a matter of paperwork, and at worst involve a judge.

I mean, our culture doesn't care much about marriage (unless gays want to marry).  The state marriage process was, at least originally, just mirroring what was done before God.

VBeers -

I completely agree that it was unfair for captains to pick teams based on ability in assembly touch football games.  You said referring to your self "I was never good enough when I was in". That is true...You were not very talented athletically and that was probably the reason that you were picked last every time.  I think the hope was that you would eventually give up and quit trying to play.  Please realize that your perseverance was respected by everyone.  Please do not blame the leading brothers for this - only blame the assembly flag football captains and others for not sticking up for you.  Looking back on things, we probably could have agreed to pick you first or second from time to time - who was keeping win/loss records anyway.

In your earlier post, you alluded to the fact that you were unhappy  with the  leading brothers because after all of these years of watching and attempting to play football, you thought that you got five downs to make ten yards instead of four downs to make ten yards.  You also suggested that this was in fact leaderships fault.  I have to take the side of the leadership in this case...Although this was never explained to you, they probably just assumed that you would figure this aspect of the game of football out.

Just my opinion - take it or leave it.