AssemblyBoard

This past Sunday I had a first hand look into the mtg in Fullerton.  My church was mtg in the same building.  It was very tragic!  Remended me of the lamentations at the rebiulding of the temple. However Curtis Miles apologized to me!  "You were right when you said all that stuff about brother George!"

David,

Tragic is the right word.  It is a shame that something that could have had a positive impact in society (similar to Calvary Chapels) has come to this because of one man's obsession with control.

I remember a few years ago walking down Main street in Huntington Beach.  I went to visit the old Bible study place.  It had become the "Longboard Bar and Grill".  

I stood at the door trying to figure out if I was at the right place (it had changed so much).  A guy on a barstool, somewhat tipsy, raised his beer and said in slurred speech, "Hey, brother, come on in!"

The thought of the "glory departing" had indeed entered my mind.

-Dave

Dave I think the thing that I stuggle most about over what George has done is the loss of what might have been. There were times when I felt as if I could almost be swept up to glory by some of the grand themes we sometimes had presented to our ears. While I am absolutely convinced that George was a false prophet, I also recognize that some things he taught were indeed Scriptural. This is the real danger and insidiousness of all false teaching and that is that it is usually is laced with a little truth. Whether or not the glory was ever there or it was my own deceived sense of such a perception I am still unsure. In view of what we all now know, I am afraid I am shut up, no matter how reluctantly, to the latter conclusion. I would really appreciate hearing your thinking on this i.e. if the glory was ever truly present and why you think so...
Verne

The best lies are often almost all truth.  Perhaps GG was that "good".

Verne,

Where the Assembly and Calvary Chapels are similar and dissimilar is noteworthy:

1.  Both started seeking to reach hippies in the Jesus Movement during the spiritual awareness of that time.
2.  Both emphasized a "just server and love Jesus" ideal.
3.  Both emphasized worship.
4.  Both emphasized Bible Study.
5.  Both taught you don't need the "professional clergy" to do things.  God has equipped you to do great things for God.
6.  Both mentored young people.
7.  Chuck Smith let the young people go out and minister the way God designed them and the movement flourished.  George had to control everything to be done his way and the movement . . . well, you know.

-Dave

I'd like to chime in here:

When you have sincere people, reading the Word with the sole intent to draw near to God, out of sincere faith and love for Him,  God is going to visit such people.  He visited Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-Nego in a furnace, surely He can visit members of an Assembly.

Indeed this fact is clearly born out over the years as illustrated by the many "quality" people who left the ministry, in order to find freedom and rest in Christ.  They heard The Good Shepherd's voice, and followed Him.

Only God knows for sure who are the sheep and the goats, but here is how I look at it presently:

George was rotten before he raised up his ministry.
All of the leader's started out sincere and at some point either left for conscience sake, or embraced corruption.  Case in point,  Mike Zach, Jim Hayman and at least one more were present when John Malone showed them Lang's book, made them listen to George's message in which he shamefully plagiarized straight from the book, and gave them other proof of further plagiarism.  There is no refuting it, it was plain for all to see.

At that moment, these men, regardless of what they were up to that time, embraced a lie, compromised their testimony and put away, out of their midst a man who was telling the truth, and sounding the alarm.  Regardless of whether John did it in a nice way, had his warning been heeded, the ministry would have been stopped and repentance would have taken place.  Only God knows what would have happened after that.  However, we know what did happen, and it ain't pretty.

Another case in point, all the people who knew about David and Judy, and called those who told the truth liars....serious problem here.

What about those who knew that the money was never accounted for?  
The brothers who agreed to slander Steve Irons and his family, when they knew it was not true?  Totally compromised.  Woe to those who call good evil, and evil good!!

And on and on and on.

So, the Glory was there, at certain times and for certain people.  However, the Spirit was also quenched and grieved,  and the last visitation of that group by God's Spirit was in January of 2003.

That is my opinion, which is subject to change and probably does not fully reflect God's opinion.  I promise to adopt His views as I become aware of them.

Brent

This is the most encouraging and up-lifting perpsective I have read on the assembly saga. There are many of us who need to hear this. I find it particularly theologically satisfying because as I search my own heart in reflection on that period, I can say before God that I was deadly serious in my desire to pursue Him and Him only. Obviously I was not unique in that regard. That God would indeed visit us under the auspices of a man like George Gefakys is indeed testament to his wondrous grace. Thank you my friend...
Verne

Of course you were serious about pursuing God, Verne.  That's the whole reason why we made the sacrifice to be involved in such a high committment group.  We thought something was there.  We believed in serious Bible Study.  We believed in trying to worship God the "right" way.  We didn't want to leave outreach to the clergy.  We thought the "something more" of the Assembly was genuine.

We have since learned, of course that all these "outward things" were not required of God, but the pursuit of our heart was right on target.

Hang on to that.  You have something from God that even George couldn't take away.

Did you hear the one about how the Black Power Movement started in Babylon under king Nebuchadrezzar?
It was led by three guys Shadrach, Meshach, and  A-Bad-Negro!    ;D  ;D  ;D
Verne

Verne:

I believe the "one-bad-negro" joke was from preacher E.B Hill, who gave his life to minister to people in the "ghetto".

A side note maybe, but for awhile there was an outreach to south central LA (actually, Crenshaw district) that Fullerton and West LA people maintained for about 4 or 5 years until it was given up for Pasadena.  

I wondered for awhile why we could never make much headway in the black community.  Not anymore.

Perhaps I should have put this on the racism thread....

Matt Sciaini

During my short stay in Fullerton, I became really good friends with a Black sister.  We did everything together, and enjoyed each other's company.  However, I was "encouraged" not to spend so much time with her, because it gave the impression that I would only spent time with other Black people...which was a joke, cause I had a lot of non-Black friends in Fullerton.  I always wondered:  it two White sisters hung out together all the time, would they be admonished as well for being exclusive?  Just something to gnaw on... ???

Just a minor note.  Its "E. V. Hill", pastor of  Mount Zion Missionary Baptist Church in Los Angeles for 41 years, now with the Lord.

-Dave

I think your are right Matt. E.V Hill was a man that did some good things in the Black community but seemed to really go astray in his defence of unfaithful men like like Lyons, Bakker, and Swaggart. This man was something of an enigma...
Those involved in that South Central outhreach who knew what George really thought about Black people must have known no end of frustration. No self-respecting black-folk (with one or two exceptions) ever stayed long wth Georgie boy. I was in full-bore five years before I woke up.  Somebody recently criticized me as one who aspired to leadership under George but did not make it. I literally laughed out loud when I read that. I cannot begin to express the depth of my gratitude to the God of heaven that he gave me the wisdom to reject such a frightful stewardship. I can happily say that while I was a deceived as the leaders in that system, I will never bear the same culpability or have to answer for what they will...thank God!!
Verne

Thanks for the correction Dave!
Verne

Thanks so much for those words of encouragement Dave. I can say before God that I stand today as a remarkable vessel of His mercy; I literally cannot believe how gracious He has been to a sinner like me...just think, one day we will see Him face to face!!!
Can I get an amen somebody...??! :)

Dave:

Thanks for the correction!!  :)

Matt Sciaini

      :DAmen, Brother!!!!!

I have had recently driven home to me with a brutality that is nothing short of stunning, the terrible damage done to people  who have spent long years under the ministrations of George Geftakys and his disciples. What is truly terrifying is that the internal carnage is often masked by a veneer of seeming normalcy yet within, is much chaos and confusion. Some of you who think you are recovered and whole are ticking time bombs. You mark my words. The seeds of corruption sown in your souls will bring forth a very bitter harvest barring the gracious intervention of the Holy Spirit. Look at what some of these people are writing under the guise of spirituality! The Biblical principle of sowing and reaping is indeed immutable and you all had better believe it.  So much of the pseudo-spiritual pontificating we have seen recently is nothing more than a defiling carnality designed to lull some into a completely false sense of security and complacency.  Some perish for lack of knowledge...How tragic it is to see this...! I urge you...fly, fly to the Fountainhead!
Verne