AssemblyBoard

Of what I understand, David Geftakys was so committed to the fact that Christmas was not a holiday that he actually went into Ariel on Christmas Day to work.

I think this is highly commendable.  I would like all of the organizations such as the ACLU who battle to keep nativity scenes off of government property require that the government work on Christmas Day (and set the example themselves) to keep consistant with their beliefs.

However, I have also heard that Christmas Day is probably the only day in the year David Geftakys actually did any work (unless you call a long lunch break surfing "managing sales").

So, in honor of this day, I would like to wish all of you a very happy National David Geftakys Work Day on December 25th.   I hope you will spend the day shunning family and friends and enjoying a productive day on your job.

after work  an Ebenezer (Scrooge) Fellowship will be held....... followed by the traditional gift exchanging of  Georges books and tapes...the festivities will be crowned with the the big Assembly youth Bonfire where all non assembly approved reading material will be burned."and all the Saints said", Bah, Humbug !!

Tsk, tsk, Dave...

Now, you most certainly know that David had to surf and do recreational activities because of his poor HEALTH.  It was his full time job, don't you know, to stay as healthy as possible in order to be effective in "the ministry".

Does it really help anyone to make a mockery of DG???I noticed Rachel's name logged in and I think its got to hurt .I could be wrong. But he's still her Father...I only knew of David from the few times he spoke in Fullerton..Rachel was about 10  at the time. I sat next to Judy once and she drew fashion pictures for her kids..I wondered how it felt to be married to such a critically ill man..As we always prayed for David as if he could Go at anytime...perhaps he was a victim fo the system in some way..I really don't know ..But I do know we need to "Forgive our Depters as God has Forgiven Us"....Forgivness is Freedom...to release someone of the Depts...owed to us releases us to Gods Forgivness in our own lives.....whether they know it or not ....Nothing against  anyone...no one is worth holding a Grudge over..in light of God's Forgivness to Us....Peace -Out!!!!

Dave .S. Just to clarify my last statement....I think I know what you meant...DG had to take his stand and work Christmas Day..He did'nt need any presents...He was probibly just as trapped and frustrated with the Assm as anyone the only difference ,he was getting PAID for it...I know his Family can speak for themselves.. But he's probibly relieved its over....unless...they're pushing him to help jump-start the Work...This I dont know can only speculate...But one thing I dont believe is that TG is or has ever been estranged from his Father GG...I'm sure TG is right ther with his eye on the Cash Box..getting directives from you know who.......JUST FRONTIN>>>>

Hi Summer

I can say for positive that David was never trapped in the Assembly.  He was there by choice, and it was his livelyhood, and a good one at that.  Good pay, paid vacations, 100% medical coverage, even for experimental treatments involving embryonic tissue from aborted fetuses.  He could choose his own hours and he had a place of prominence.  I do think he is relieved it's over in one sense, but I promise he misses his pay and benefits.

Interestingly, Tim G. has taken a pretty firm stance against his father's sin.  Tim is also working for a living.  While I am greatly dissappointed in him for not doing more to correct the false teaching, or apologize for the role he played in propagating it, he does seem to be standing firm with regard to his father, at least as far as I can tell.

For the record, I DO forgive David G, Tim and even George.  However, until they repent(especially George and David, who both did theatrical fake repentances)  I am not going to condone them or tolerate them in any way.  No fellowship is possible in their current state, although I daresay they would be welcomed and embraced if they repented.  For example, there are plenty of other leaders who have repented and who enjoy friendships with former saints.  One of the ex-leaders who excommunicated me, 18 months ago, is totally welcome in our home and even drives my oldest daughter to church on Sunday.  This man is totally clear about what he was involved in, and forgiveness is not even an issue.  We are friends and becoming better friends.

The same could be true for David and George, but the ball is in their court.  They are the ones who need to repent.  Now, should they repent----and I hope they do----and we still refuse fellowship with them, and hold a grudge against them, we have a problem!

However, your point on forgiving our debtors is well taken.  

Will you tell us who you are sometime?

Brent

The Lord healed David.  As you all know, he was gravely ill for decades, basically we never knew from one week to the other if he was going to live.  It was a real ebenezer when he made it out to a meeting, unless you had to hear him preach. :P

However, I understand that he is now living in San Francisco, and working on the docks.  If this is true, good for him.  But I wonder if he was really that sick for so many years?  ??? ???

Some day, I'll tell the story about how I almost went into business with David, and how my mother and Tom Maddux saved me.  It's very interesting, at least to me.


Brent

I held back all day today, wondering how to put this.  First, Summer007 I appreciate your concern for me.  However, I am not in the least offended by the posts.  The truth is I was forced for years to sit and smile prettily making sure all I did and said praised my dad and protected him.  I watched countless people see right through my dad and say nothing, just let him continue on with his outrageous and abusive behavior.  Abusive behavior that was directed not just to us but to everyone in his sphere.  It was a perverted version of the story, "The Emperor's Clothes" where no one will admit to the obvious, that the Emperor is butt naked.  What was worse was I was punished when I said anything.  I have forgiven him (despite the fact that he has never repented or asked for forgiveness), and it is almost therapeutic to be able to finally admit what he really was and to hear others say they saw it too.  It confirms that I was not crazy, others witnessed it too.  It is even better when people are able to do so in a humorous way.  


My dad is not relieved that the assembly fell apart.  He was a victim of his parents to the extent that they abused him as a child and both (his mother in particular) controlled his life as an adult.  However, as an adult he had a choice which he made and is responsible for.  Also, in the assembly, he relished his position and was very upset when the assembly fell apart because it meant he had to get a job and actually interact with people who didn't "have to" be around him.  On the other hand, it fulfilled his persecution fantasies and the theory he clung to that he would be abandoned by everyone and would "stand alone" like David of the bible.  Also, if anyone has their eye on the cash box, it would be my father.  Through his mother, he continued to receive money for a long time after he was "asked to step down" as a leading brother and worker.  For all I know he is still receiving money today.  I know he had a verbal guarantee that he would always have his medical expenses taken care of.

So I am fine.  My family is what it is and I would rather be open and honest about that then go back to the "don't talk about it" way of life.

Thank you again for your concern.

Oh now doesn't that sounds nice, too bad I still don't believe a word Tim says.  Still, it wouldn't surprise me if Tim just didn't want to get caught going down with the ship.  Alas for poor Tim, I fear that it is still all about self. :(  However I can think of at least one thing that Tim could do that might possibly change my opinion of him, but this is probably not the right place to discuss this (at least not for "Retread" to discuss this).

Well! Retread, I sit corrected. :)
It is interesting that you make this comment: it wouldn't surprise me if Tim just didn't want to get caught going down with the ship.  Alas for poor Tim, I fear that it is still all about self. :(  
From my observations of the behaviour of other individuals I am inclined to make a similar conclusion about them. Since I am not allowed to dialogue with them, they will understand if I 'judge' their behaviour in this fashion.

Lord bless,
Marcia

I have  no doubt that if there was a true repentance, the positive response would be overwhelming. I truly hope for this.
 The bible teaches us that, "the goodness of God leads us to repentance". I agree with Brent, " the ball is in their court"
Mark K

Getting back to the topic of National David Geftakys Work Day,  NDGWD; I would like to share some of the amazing background behind this giant of free enterprise.  In other words, what is it about his past that makes him the man he is today?

David was a baker at Disneyland once, for a month or two.  (possibly his second to last job until recently)  We know this because he taught us how to properly pronounce "Crouissant," and cited his experience at Disneyland as his authority.  Suzie put me through Chiropractic school by working at high-end restaurants.  She was told that they were "Kwuhsahnts."  However, David told us that they are Crescents,  pronounced in the American way.   He insisted that the French pronounce them that way, and actually made a big point about us agreeing with him.  Instead of concluding the obvious, that this man was an ignorant ass, we looked at eachother and shrugged, and just didn't pronounce the pastry's name in his presence.

Part of working, is taking a vacation, and  David knew how to take 'em like a pro!  I was working full time, and David invited me and Suzie to go Skiing in Utah with them, in one week.  I thought it was too short of notice for my employer (first year as a chiropractor and I was working in someone's office) but David said something about how if I was going to be involved in the Work, I would have to learn how to sacrifice, especially at work.  If I couldn't take a stand on vacation,  how would I ever take a stand when I had to go on itinerary?

So, I got the time off.  Suzie was 4 months pregnant with Jill, and Shawn was 10 months old, so she couldn't ski.  She could cook, clean and shop however, which things it was her priviledge to do.

When we got to the ski chalet, there were two bedrooms, 2 bathroooms and a loft.  David immediately took to larger bedroom that had the attached bath, and made us share the bathroom with his three kids.  There wasn't enough room in our bedroom for Shawns little play-pen, unless we crawled over the bed to get from one end of the room to the other.  There was plenty of room in the larger bedroom, but this was needed for a Worker. This was convenient, because while Suzy was cooking breakfast, he and Judy could be in their bathroom getting ready.  (Judy took half of the cooking as well)

This is not that great a lesson, at face value, EXCEPT THAT WE HAD TO PAY EXACTLY ONE HALF OF THE EXPENSES!  His family took more than two thirds of the condo, but we had to pay half.  I learned alot about taking vacations, and splitting bills on this trip.  In following years, David managed to get people to drive  him to the tip of Cabo, in their cars, and rent houseboats with their money that he could vacation on.  Again, this isn't really work, but vacation is a  subset of work, and I think it adds flavor to the whole thing.

One of the most powerful stories I can relate, which really puts NDGWD into perspective has to do with David's training home.  In his home, the whole purpose was to train people to be in The Work of The Lord.  You can read Arthur's testimony to learn more about some of the details.  

Well, when a servant is out on itinerant ministry, he is not able to mow his lawn, or paint his house, let alone dig in the garden, build bunk beds, or shop for food.  So, David reasoned that in order for these people to be properly trained, they should have to "serve," when he was out on itinerate, or at a worker's function.  This amounted to 3 Saturdays per month.  On these Saturdays, the people in his home had to spend all day serving.....him!  They spent all day working on David's house, fixing David's things, and doing David'd bidding.  They had a lovely garden, designed by Judy, but the "trainees," did all the hard work.  They did the cooking, the cleaning, the washing of the car, etc.  This way, they could learn what it was like to be in the work.

In the Work, it's all about service.

David wanted me to come next door and serve at his house as well, but I explained to him that I had my own.  He became angry and said that unless I repented of that, I would never be able to be in The Work.  He should know, he was a Full-Time worker, afterall!

There is much more to tell, but it is going to have to wait!  

I hope everyone has a great Christmas!  God Bless! :)

Brent

Once upon a time...long long ago,

I was sitting in GG's family room with David and Judy.  David and I were talking about cars.  For some reason that I don't remember I mentioned that the cars sold in America under the name Mercury Capri were built in Germany.

David told me, "No they're not, they make them in France."

I told him that I had read about them in car magazines and that they all said that they came from Germany.

Then David broke the news to me.  "They make them in France...just look at the name...Capri...that's in France!"

I just looked at him and thought, "Duh".

Capri is a pretty Island a few miles off the coast of Naples, Italy.

But, I said nothing...one learned not to criticize the golden ones.

Tom

NDGWD, which is all about the man and his work, cannot be complete without mentioning David's vast, self aquired knowledge of all things medical, especially as they relate to work.  At this time, David was working full-time as a "worker."

While I was in Chiropractic school, I was present at an outreach planning meeting, where David was teaching us how to do "gospel presentations."  Every gospel presentation must begin with an interest producing statement.  One sister started hers with, "Did you know that men have one less rib than women?"

Of course, upon hearing this I piped up and informed everyone that although this is an interesting statement, it is totally untrue, and therefore not a good idea to use as the opening statement for a gospel presentation.

David countered,  "It's true.  They just don't want you to know it.  They want to ignore it."

Brent,  "No, I just got done doing a total bisection of two human cadavers, and just had thoracic spine anatomy and palapation.  I guarantee that all of us have 12 ribs, men and women alike."

"Well, my mom studied to be a doctor in missionary school, and she taught me that men have one less rib."  Turning to Genesis,  "What does it say right here?  It says that man has one less rib."

Brent, "Well, perhaps Adam had less, but we all now have 12, and its been like that for a long time.  Egyptian mummies also have 12 ribs."

David,  "Ok, I have an anatomy book, let's look it up."  This was done with 4 or 5 people looking on.  David was putting me in my place, because I was obviously being taught  a bunch of junk in the worldly chiropractic college.  He turned to a 2 page drawing of the human skeleton....which showed 12 ribs.  "Well, this is a drawing, of course they don't want to put the truth here."

I went out to my 1971 VW van and brought in a thoracic spine x-ray.  We then began to count the ribs,  1...2...3...    Yep, 12 on the left side.   Then David actually counted 11 on the right!  I am not kidding, he actually skipped a rib, recounting several times, in order to arrive at 11 ribs on the right side!  Another brother, looking on, also counted 11, but the rest of us clearly saw that there were 12.

I got out a marker, and marked each rib, after we counted it, until even David had to admit that there were indeed 12 ribs.  I explained how the ribs matched up with the 12 thoracic vertebra and that each rib articulated with the demifacet on the anterolateral portion of the vertebral body, and that this joint was a fibrous joint, not a cartilagenous joint, etc.

The conclusion of the story is that David blamed his mom for teaching him wrong when he was 4 years old, and that for all this time he believed that men had one less rib than women.  The sister got a new opening line for her gospel presentation as well.

I should have realized that I was dealing with a strange family, especially when he did his creative counting, but I again just shrugged it off, and listened to his preaching the next day.  Now you get and idea of the wisdom that went into Betty's medical and dietary advice!  All part of The Work.

Brent

Merry Christmas Everyone!!!!!!Ok,Ok I realize I realize I did'nt have the *%$# beat out of me by Dg I just thought he seemed frustrated.....Anyway, Just found reflections in Sept so I'm reading as fast as I can...I think I've covered most everything..see some people are just finding out about the Assm...ha...No..I'm not the Summer a few people have asked me about nor am I Rose..I just feel comfortable  this way for now I have nothing to hide just where I'm at in life now this was a shocker ..Don't know how involved I want to be ..I have Trust issues ..Gee I wonder why???But this is a part of my history so..its like  askeketon in the Closet ...yikes...anyway I may decide  to use my first name...does it really matter?  I wish I could go into more ..But I'll be late to my Candellight service, Family Dinner and consert at another Church....Hope eVeryone is Blessed..I know My Cup Runneth Over!!!!!

Summer:

Were you in the West LA assembly or the San Fernando Valley?  Just wondering as I came to the SF Valley at the end of 1987, which I believe you said you were out by that time. I would be interested to know if you were in the SF Valley prior to my arrival.  My husband, Greg Tobin, would have been there when you were in fellowship.  I would like to swap stories of people who were there when you were.

I do understand your wanting to remain private for right now.

Merry Christmas!

It's therapeutic to be able to say something now, after having kept those things in our hearts for all these years past. Someone told me years ago that when a loved one dies it helps the grieving individual if they talk about it. That one comment, when I was in my early teens, made quite a impact on me. In his book Life Together, the author Bonhoeffer has a chapter on Ministry (which we studied in workshops in the assembly). The section on 'listening' is very enlightening. So many do not know how to effectually minister to others because we do not know how to truly 'listen' and sympathize. So many times misunderstanding and misrepresentations had to be borne internally because of the code of silence.

Marcia

Betty could not have been a good influence to Daves marriage, when DG was in STL he told me Judy and him enjoyed watching football games together on TV back in CA. Betty instructed Dave to wait till the game started and they were comfortable, then tell Judy he was hungry ( even though he was'nt )just to make sure she would get up to make him something to eat. I told him that was one of the goofiest things I ever heard, of coarse he did'nt like that I disagreed and explained to me that it was for Judys own good.
Dave and Betty played hardball with a lot of people and made lives miserable,(believe me, when a Geftakys put a bullseye on someones back, all their puppets went after these individuals) yet both were of weak character. How could Betty, a grown educated women have so little respect for herself and others by never blowing the whistle on her husbands behavior ? How could she pretend things were lily white knowing her husband was accordinding to the word of God disqualified from the position he held ? How can a grown man respect himself living on hand outs from his mother ?  I witnessed this same man mocking men of good character for honoring their mothers, calling them "mommas Boys". How ironic. These are the people that many held in awe and esteem.
I believe the Geftakys family felt they knew what was best for everyone else, but keep your nose out of their business. Leading Brothers and workers would be trained to have the same arrogant mentality.

Mark, I think the answer for Judy's involvement is similar to that for 90% of the Assembly adults. She was "educated" from 18 years forward by the Geftakys clan. When they recruited her, they didn't take her aside and say, "Hey, we're a freaky cult and we're going to abuse you and twist everything you know."

It was quiet, subtle, decietful lessons like the one you related, spread over days, months, years. It was ingrained and cultivated carefully from the inside out. The pattern for this is not unique, as you well know, and has been documented in other religious, political and social groups.

Ultimately, Judy is responsible for her own situation, as we all are and ultimately she made the choice to leave. It is certainly not up to anyone who is not Judy Geftakys to judge her timing or method or motive in leaving.

Quite frankly, it has been made more and more clear over the past year, what a pitiable creature David is as well. He is the ultimate Assembly Kid. Abused as a child, false doctrine hammered into him day after day, isolated from anything and anyone close to "normal" or healthy.

Brent's story about David insisting that men have 11 ribs rings a familiar note in every Assembly Kid. I have talked to several about this in the past week and we have all agreed that we sat in science class in public schools with a skeptical, superior attitude. Of course our teachers did not tell us the truth. They were a part of the WORLD SYSTEM that was intentionally covering up the truth (even if the teacher was an unwitting pawn).

I'd bet my left hand, David believed with all his heart and soul that men only had 11 ribs.

Don't get me wrong, here. David is a scumbag. Every person has a crossroads (and sometimes many) where they have to make choices about who they are and what they believe and why they believe them. David has made his. Judy has made hers.

My biggest questions since finding the website and bulletin board have also centered around "why" and "how could", etc. Those questions are being answered. Sometimes I don't like the answers and often the answers are blurred with layers upon layers of fault and blame and guilt. But the truth is the truth.

Now I can come here with new questions like, "OK, now what?" & "So what part of my doctrine that I take for granted is still tainted?" etc.

These are people many held in awe and esteem
Learn anything? ;)

Scott

Hey Scott,
I meant, 'How could (Betty) have so little'.....
I modified my post to make it clear that it amazes me Betty would allow Georges behavior to go unchallenged for so many years.
I do agree with you that if the assembly was the only life you knew, it's hard to know better and even harder to break from it.
I do think those who spent many years in the assembly will grieve for time lost. I believe there is great opportunity in the future, God can do a great healing work in restoring and even adding to what was lost in individual lives.
Mark K

Mark,

Thanks for clearing it up. I wondered when I read it. It is a valid question either way. Of course two different answers.

All evidence states Betty was not duped but rather a leader/participant/instigator in the Assembly organization. Power behind the throne? Brains of the outfit? Little of both? Probably.

Scott

GeftakysServants faithfully used these 'training' tactics on their spouses as well as on other assembly members whom they decided needed to learn to 'go the way of the cross'. Somehow we knew that we did not like to learn the 'way of the cross' by those training methods, but we held those who had the rule over us (LBs LBWs workers) in such esteem to the extent that (for a season in my case) we denied self and what the Spirit was speaking to us. We compromised and succumbed and promoted abuse in our homes and in the assembly. Many GeftakysServants have now abandonned GG, but since they did not receive their training from seminary, but from the Geftakys' and GeftakysServants, they now have difficulty removing the 'taint'. Only those who have left these existing assemblies, with an attitude and a willingness to learn in their new places of fellowship, are finding their minds being renewed and a freedom and liberty that they did not have in the assembly. They are happy and are growing in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. Hallelujah! PTL!

Lord bless,
Marcia

Marcia,

I don't think removing the "taint" is such a big problem.  In my experience, I shed several assembly doctrines after reading a book on whatever subject I was thinking about by some sound author.

I would read the book and think through the ideas to decide which ones best fit the scriptures.

The key, I believe, is having a sincere desire to know the truth.

Without that, I don't suppose the apostle Paul could teach a person much.

Tom

Tom,

I agree with you on this. The sincere desire to know the truth is the key. I have discovered that other churches do not have "open" worship, and "open" ministry(aka preaching), and prayer meetings where everyone is expected to attend. Yet they are living and growing. So I have had the attitude that I am there to learn rather than to judge and spread the "heavenly vision". This has helped me to get over some assembly hang-ups and attitudes. The "taint" will not dissipate without a true and honest seeking after the truth.

Lord bless,
Marcia

Hi Kimberly,  Yes I know all of your Valley people and would love to talk with you sometime..Perhaps an email?I dont really have any Horror storys as I Loved the first 5 years in the Assm..I t was after Power changed hands that things got strange for me...I still loved the people very much ..I did'nt know they were maliously cloaking what was really going on...when I did leave I was just trusting God's Grace ...like if I perish ,I perish ..I had to get out..and knew I would'nt return...I did visit once...and everything was confirmed for me.. O f course I could'nt partake that was no problem...cause I can have communion anytime I want....For me what helped is I was raised Baptist...(.GG did'nt like the ones with former church history...) So I've essentially been in Church all of my Life and if its one thing Baptists have  its loads of Grace...this I knew ..that there was Life outside of the Assm...Thanks for asking I hope we can talk further...