AssemblyBoard

Recently I spoke with a familiar young man (not the one I ran across in the doctor’s office I mentioned on the "Tis the Season" thread).  Listening to him was like going back in time and listening to myself regurgitate the assembly garbage.  He said that we should not forsake the gathering of ourselves together....(he attends several meetings every week).  He told me that he and his friends just want to obey the Bible and practice Christianity just like they did in the first century.   When I asked if he is trying to earn favor with God he said we can’t earn His favor.  He said that there have always been people who truly served God, but that God raised up his ministry in these last days to show the way more perfectly to the whole world.  He said that anyone who sincerely seeks God will eventually agree with his church.  He added that the leaders at the highest level of his ministry have God’s anointing.  He said that his leaders give direction in many areas of life so that people will not mess up their lives like so many in ‘the world’ do.  When I asked him about people that leave his ministry he said that according to his leaders the number one reason people leave is sexual sin.  He really wanted to get together and study the Bible with me.  Since I had already gone that route I told him that while I still believe in Christ as my Savior I do not feel compelled to join him.

I am happy to report I didn’t feel the least bit guilty.

Jack

Which group and where was this young man involved?

There are a couple other groups similar to The Assembly in the Central Ca. Coast, and I am curious as to which one this guy was from.  Of course, you could have talked to him somewhere else....

Brent

Oh, I failed to mention some important information about the ‘familiar young man’.  He was a Jehovah’s Witness who came to my door on Saturday morning.  So, with the exception of some doctrinal issues, he sounded pretty familiar.  The same claim of exclusive anointing on his ministry, the same loyalty to his leaders and the same hectic meeting schedule.  Actually, he only had meetings on Sundays, Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays.  His Sunday meetings are ONLY in the afternoon.  He has no activities on Mondays, Wednesdays or monthly NOP’s on Fridays.  I guess the Watchtower Society is pretty lax compared to the Assembly. ;D  ;)

Slackers all of them!  LOL .....he,he...Oh  and good thing to know he's a JW....that helps..does he have pre-prayer???

He mentioned that he spends 10 hours per week serving God, and that was the national average for JW's.  So it looks like GG's workers were not the only one keeping tabs on their own good works for the sake of 'accountability'.  He said the Watchtower organization is organized just like the church was in the first century.

Sounds familiar.

Jack

The Witnesses also have an extreme top-down authority structure, shun those who leave, and don't celebrate Christmas.  There is an excellent first-person account written by a woman who was raised as a Witness, Visions of Glory: A History and a Memory of Jehovah's Witnesses.  For children, life in the Witnesses and life in the assembly were not that much different.  And they produce the same concept of God.  Amazing and scary.  

The depraved minds of men who create religious cults seem to run in the same channels.  You wonder if, maybe subconsciously, they study and emulate other successful cults.  We know that GG and BG went to Utah on a regular basis before the assembly, supposedly to witness to the Mormons.  Is that where the idea came from to call ourselves "the saints:"???  Jon Krakauer, who wrote the book about an ascent to Mt. Everest which was made into a movie, has written a hair-raising book on Mormon Fundamentalism, Under the Banner of Heaven.  They believe in getting a "word from the Lord"!!!  Sound familiar?  "Saints, the Lord showed me this morning that He is going to give us the bluffs in Coyote Hills to build a gathering place."  George actually came bounding into a workers meeting one time and said this.

Re: JW's meeting only Sunday afternoon.

Don't the JW's have their meeting Sunday afternoon so they can go door to door Sunday morning.  It helps them hit more heathen, and those annoying "born-agains" probably won't be home.

I remember that meeting too, Margaret.

He said that God had given him a promise, and read some verse about hills.

The Mormon scheme of things also has levels of salvation, with folks like us inhabiting the earth eternally while the good Mormons achieve godhood and get their own planet, (and harem).


Tom

We had a ex JW  share his testimony to our sunday school class. His Grandfather and Father were both JWs who moved up in the system and he followed their example, eventually ending up where they print the "Watchtower".(which he said every good JW aspires too) Many of their members never develope their personal talents because of their intense involvement, menial low paying jobs are the norm, but those in leadership were doing just fine financially. Many of his peers had closet drinking problems. The similiarities to the assembly was uncanny, ecspecially the overall appearance of being wholesome and squeaky clean.

Verne,

Sadly, Western Christianity is has many, many people who practice this.  It is part and parcel of the "Deeper Life" teaching that Brent wrote about.

However, this does not of itself brand them as evil.  Edith Schaeffer, in her book , L'ABRI, describes exactly the same type of thing.

They were looking for a house, and were running out of time.  She read the verse from Isaiah about the Lord's house being established on the mountains...checked out a house and "knew" that that was God speaking to her, and bought it.

It worked out fine for them.  However, I still don't believe that this is a valid practice.   The Bible just doesn't teach it.

Tom

I was told of a sister who read something about fields in her morning time Bible reading and believed that the Lord was speaking to her about getting a job in a particular location in Ottawa.
And then there was this other sister who, about 2 months ago, heard from the Lord that He was going to remove GG's poison from the stew, even as the poison was removed from the stew that the young prophets had made for Elisha and company.

BTW - Ottawa was not influenced by GG.  ::)

Marcia

I saw on TV the other night a story about Pat Robertson.  He said that God told him that George Bush will win the election this year.  Oral Roberts claimed a few years ago that God told him He would kill him if he didn't raise a certain amount of money by a certain deadline.  He didn't raise the amount needed, yet God did not strike him dead.......Interesting.

In contrast, Billy Graham, a godly man, has never claimed that God has spoken to him in similar ways (even about non-political issues).

I am not saying that God can't speak to people like that, but I'm a bit skeptical.

Jack

P. S.  I wish I could ask that young JW if his leaders 'help' him keep his schedule like the LB's did ours.

I have contact with many JW's, and have had long conversations with several of them over the years.  My conclusion is that,  overall, the JW leadership is less controlling than the Assembly used to be.

The Watchtower organization is far more established, and its members know what is expected of them early on, so the leadership doesn't have to use as much personal coercion to keep the wheels turning.  They still meddle, just not as much as the LB's did in the Assemblies that I am familiar with.  (I have visited a dozen, but know the "ins'n'outs of 8 or so)

Had the Assembly continued,  I think it would have evolved into an organization similiar to Watchtower, or the ICOC.  But God.........heard the cries of his children, and delivered them from bondage!  Praise His Name!

Nevertheless, if you want to totally creep yourself out, read personal accounts from JW's.   I have a heart for these people, because I understand where they are coming from, having lived in the same way for most of my adult life.

Brent

Jack---

Actually, Oral Roberts did make the monetary amount when a "Dog Race Track" owner came forward and donated around 2 million dollars. I have no idea why a dog race track owner would want to step forward and keep God from killing Oral Roberts, but he did.

As for the JW's---I've studied  much about them--and it truly is amazing how the Assembly follows their "pattern" in many ways. Not in basic theology for the most part(the Assembly never claimed Jesus was Michael the Archangel, etc.)---but in their very legalistic ways, and in their shunning and lack of any concern for those who have departed. The "work" they do is also very strange. I remember once when sitting on a bus bench, watching two JW's actually walk into an abandoned field, walking around in it still holding up their "WatchTower" newspapers. The fact that they were holding them up and putting in their "Alloted time" seemed to be far more important to them than to who heard the actual message.

--Joe

When Oral Roberts made that claim that God would strike him dead if he did'nt come up with the cash, a columist in STL suggested that Oral not raise that money so when God struck him dead the general public would take Gods statements about "anything" seriously

Sad, funny, and true.  

Joe,

Thanks for the correction regarding Oral Roberts.  I stand corrected.  Yeah, it does seem a bit odd that a gambling man would run to the aid of a preacher.  It's also odd that God would treat one of His servants in a manner that is similar to the way mafia thugs treat business owners who are behind on their protection 'payments'.

Brent,

You know, that says a lot about the assemblies.  Our leaders were more meddlesome than those of the Watchtower - people we identified as cult leaders.

I feel for them too.  When he first came to my door I turned him away immediately.  Then, after he had been turned away from other doors in my apartment complex, I asked him to come chat with me at my door.  I wanted to see what similarities there were between his group and the assembly so I asked him questions to gleen information from him.  I doubt he gets questions like that often.

Jack

Ask him if he knows anything about the house that Watchtower purchased in San Diego many years ago, and registered in the name of David, King of Israel.  They had a date when David was going to return and occupy the house.  Someone else lives in it now, I am sure.

George said the Lord would return in the 1980's.

Interesting stuff.

Brent

     Having spent several years in the pentecostal camp (I once even attended a three day seminar at Oral Roberts University), maybe I can shed a little light.  The pentecostal (aka full-gospel or charismatic) mindset is very different from anything the assemblies stood for.

     Pentecostal believers are largely free to do whatever they choose in their personal lives as long as they donate generously.  Even the poor are not exempt, and collection containers often return bearing rings and watches.
     The ultimatum from God was not a threat to Oral Roberts, whose eternal destiny was never in question.  Rather, it was a put-up-or-shut-up message to Roberts' audience at large, "You haven't been faithful in monetary support:  Get it together or I'll take away your prophet from you."  Roberts wasn't worried about it-- he was just passing the message along to the people.

     Why would a race track owner come across with the bread?  This is not uncommon among the pentecostal set, many of whom live by a standard of If-God-is-generous-to-me-I'll-be-generous-to-His-work, while others follow a plan of If-I'm-generous-to-God's-work-maybe-He-won't-strike-me-down.  
     This results in a good deal of financial support coming from questionable sources, but since those donating the money attribute their affluence to God's blessing, there is no challenge to the funds' legitimacy.  The pentecostal concept of holiness is more to do with covering flesh with clothing and the absence of makeup than about the state of the heart or soul.
     Nothing about the O.R. death threat seemed odd to his followers.  It was how they expect God to deal with them.  Sad, but true.

al

Sounds like a 'sanctified' shakedown ;D

I would love to have been there to tell him "Well, Reverend, I'm broke.  I hope for your sake there are a lot of other eager doners.  Cause if your fate depends on me, you're toast." ;)

Jack

     At my age, the past sometimes wavers a bit ???, but I seem to recall Tom mounting just such an assault many years ago ::)...

     Nonetheless, point taken.  The key is to
[1] Never limit God:  He may lead us in whatever manner He chooses.
[2] Try the spirits & search the scriptures:  God will NEVER lead in a way contrary to His Word.
[3] Do not depend upon ANY method of God's leading, but only upon The Lord Himself:  The earth and all its fulness are His and He may use them how and when He pleases, but Jesus Christ is The Same yesterday, today and forever; only the changelessness of His Divine Person can be relied upon fully and at all times.

     BTW, Verne, in my opinion the wealth of this BB is composed largely of two cents' worth here & two cents' worth there.  I'd rather have your two cents' worth any day, Brother, than suitcases full of the counterfeit available elsewhere. :D

God bless,
al

Hey Cheesehead Mau, your Packers looked good last week against the Seahawks. Please beat the Eagles in Philly so the Rams (if they can get by Carolina) can play the Packers at the Eddie Jo Dome.
If you're in Chicago this month call, maybe, you Verne and myself can hook-up and get something to eat ,then go to a Chrysler dealer and test drive a Viper.

Just thought I'd mention this so you would all know that the young man I had warned about Assm tactics on campu s called this wekend...Seems he has someone that wants to Discipel him....Said other churches were worldly, asked him if he was really Saved, and just overall left him feeling defeated and depressed...i spoke to him for awhile to get the name of the group and the leaders name he will follow-up with me...He alos thought he was meeting withjust the one "Brother" and a group of three(3) bible thumped him for 3 hours ...This is a Palm Desert Group ...Does anyone know if they have  an Out reach ther or a Bros Hse there??This group lived together ...and meets in a Boys and Girls Club....The main discipler said he was astranged from his family as they think he preaches to them...(or he has'nt seen them in a year something like that) Sound Familar to anyone??? Then later I had a UCLA  student stop by ..very brief hes from the church..Guess I'll be talking to him real soon...(these kids are 18 and 19 years old  same age I was when I met  the Assm folk)....Pray!!!!

I wanted to apologize for the Gross Typos..I posted before I did a Basic check....while  on Id like to add this opened the door to talk to my Daughter alittle more about the Group..and that many have been hurt...when I told her about some of the names.."Struggeling Along, blkslider, and Paranoid " she could'nt believe it ...and really feels bad ...I do too when I read someone is Struggling Along like their legs are broken or something...or paranoid...too scared to speak..Yes I'd like to hear what they have to say...I think one of them spoke -up..I hope the others do too.

Summer007,

This sounds like the tactics of a group called the LA Church of Christ.

They are also the "One True Church" and disciple on college campuses.  I have been approached by the ones in Fullerton a couple of times.

They are astounded that people already know what they are all about.

Thomas Maddux

Hi Summer, Tom nailed the group right on the head.  Had a ton of fun with them while leading the campus work at LBCC.   If you look them up they can be found as the International Church of Christ.  Here is the Rick Ross link on them and you can find tons more if you want.  http://www.rickross.com/groups/icc.html (http://www.rickross.com/groups/icc.html)

Strange that as strange the assembly was these people were just plain lost and scary.  Praise God I was able to rescue a few from their clutches during the campus work.

Cheers,
G

Thank-You Peacefulg.....Those boys on Campus probibly did'nt know what hit them when you showed up!!!!

Actually it was the women that were the scariest.  I have seen in your other post that you know you are blessed to be a woman, and enjoy the role that God has given for women, but the Church of Christ "sisters" were given a little more authority than say other cultic groups, so they could be a pill to deal with.   ;D  

Lord Bless,
G

Frightening Thought...Peacefulg..Just to let you know I pulled down some info. As I was doing so my Daughter waltzed in from Youth Group (BTW--she brought a visitor)I asked he rhad she spoken to her friend, she was getting ready to call him..As she looked at some of the material she said to me Mom this is EVIL is'nt it ..I replied  Yes it is ..is'nt it..hum..not only that there were so many branches nad names of groupss it was utterly confusing to dicipher...BTW..Her Friend had been led to the Lord at the Beach by some Brothers from Compton/Watts area very Godly Men that have assisted in this Matter..Thank-You All Tom Maddux too you were right on target!!!!

Dear brothers from the hood, Praise the Lord, all of my families roots are in Compton, mother and dad grew up and went to school there.  Needless to say I went to a private school (Assemblies of God), so I missed the gangs, drugs, and all that, but did see many die and just have bad lives.  

Good to hear the Lord is faithful to have a witness in the city.  I remember when Clarence and others got a burden for the inner city and we did a number of outreaches to IngleHood.  It was sad that the assembly did not have the "resources" to really reach out to the poor in our own country, and you were dammed to ask them to support ministries that did do it faithfully.

Anyway I am ranting!  Thanks for the information.

Cheers,
G

"What true story of things in Africa".

Note having been to Africa, and I mean no disrespect to Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Tom Joyner, Tavis Smiliey, etc., but THANK GOD SLAVERY DID ONE THING IN BRINGING SOME OF MY ANCESTORS OUT OF AFRICA, BECASUE THAT PLACE HAS PROBLEMS I WOULD NEVER WANT TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH!!!!!!!!    :'(

BTW, I do mean disrespect to the above mention "BLACK LEADERS!", since they have done nothing but keep/hold blacks down and back.

Forgive me for my little rant!

Cheers,
G.

SAY IT LOUD!...........

Yo..Peacefulg,       just to let you know I did go to a Bar-ba-Q in "Inglehood" with my kids...There was no "Carribean Jerk Chicken" served there....forgot to ask Verne for the Recipe ...Have you ever heard of Noel Jones...in Gardena just on the border of Compton...BTW I used to work across the street from La Dera Heights the "Black Beverly Hills" so I've seen both sides of the Black Community...And worked with some wonderful people ...I even had Coolio come into my work once and my kids were furious at me for not getting his Autograph...Bling,bling...And the Girl I worked with was Trya Banks best friend...another missed auto ouch...The Brother there got both autographs and Photos...Yes my kids Love all the Rap..so I know most of it..Very Popular on the West Coast...