AssemblyBoard

Hello everyone

One year ago, today, things were starting to get pretty interesting.  This is what I posted on the web then.  I read it for the first time in about a year, just a few minutes ago, and I think it still has relevance today.

http://geftakysassembly.com/Outsidersperspective.html (http://geftakysassembly.com/Outsidersperspective.html)

Where were you, and what was going through your mind during the spiritual tornado that hit us a year ago?

Brent

I explicitly remember reading about Dan Notti stepping down.  I was at work, closed my office door, and wept.  I'm not exactly sure why.  I think this is when it finally hit me that it was over.  This is probably when it became inevitable that I would leave, but there was still a strong emotional tie to the assemblies.

I had just come back from a very weird seminar.  Looking back, it was obvious that GG was trying his best at damage control.  There were only five lectures, and I have no idea what they were about.

For the next few weeks, my response internally was to watch and see what the local LB's were doing.

The point that really "hit" me was when a Fullerton worker called a San Diego worker and said: "Read the website, it's all true."  That's when all of the pieces of me that still wanted to please leadership were taken away.

One year ago today:

I was "officially" outside of God's Kingdom, and many of the people on this forum wouldn't dream of talking to me, let alone treating me as a friend.  While the story hasn't changed, a year ago I was a vicious liar and an agent of the enemy.  A year ago today, I was approached by the SLO leadership in an attempt to make peace.   The rest is recent history, although in some ways it seems longer than a year ago!

Who would have imagined, 18 months ago, that all of this would have taken place?  In the same amount of time it takes to remodel a kitchen and two bathrooms, many of us had the whole universe "remodeled!"

Yes, God does indeed do above all that we could ask or think.

It sure would be nice to hear from some of the current Assembly leaders about how they view the last year.  I'm sure they promoted George's books at the last seminar, in 2002; do you suppose it was the ideas in the books that became wrong all of a sudden, or that the ideas are still right, but the man became wrong, or what?

We read King Solomon's writings, even though he had some really bad problems, why not read George's?  

Hint:  Solomon started off in a good way and strayed.  (some say he repented at the end, some not)

Are the things in George's books "precious," or did everyone agree they were hot air, without coming out and saying it?   The previous question is directed at the groups still meeting.  Why do you continue with the pattern you learned from George, but refuse the books that teach it?  Good doctrine is not negated by bad character, so why be afraid of George's books?  Why was it "edifying" to go through "Testimony to Jesus" 18 months ago, but now the remaining books occupy a landfill?  

Anyways, you get the general point I am trying to make.  A clear statement of what we believe in the new universe isn't a bad thing.  We had this in the Assembly, after all,  remember "The Sufficiency of The Scriptures?"  It explained why we were "scriptural."  

What happened?  George was not sufficient, but none of us were following him, were we?  Are the scriptures no longer sufficient?

---

In the coming week, I am going to issue a personal statement of what I have learned in the last year, where I stand, and most importantly, things I have done wrong that I wished I could undo.  Yes, I am going to publicly repent of some things.  

I'm not asking to current crop of leaders, or the ex-leaders who remain silent to do something I am not doing myself.  In fact, I'll go first, whether they choose to follow or not.

Brent

One year ago today, we were mulling over the news that Geo. himself was "under discipline" by the Fullerton leaders for "failure to deal with his son, David."  A closed door Sunday afternoon meeting on Jan. 12th, 2003, had been called by the leaders to tell that to the assembly here.  The 'spin' that day had to do with beware failure in parenting where loyalty to your children could result in compromising "the Testimony".  Examples were given, including the Irons family.  We were to pray for Geo. to repent, write a letter of apology, submit to the leaders in Fullerton in this matter.  I asked just how long ago did these problems with David that resulted in his no longer being a worker take place?  3 years, they said.  We didn't know enough (yet) to really ask much more.  

Margaret, it is a crying shame that these leaders, everyone of them who knew you all and the events surrounding your departure, have not called or written to apologize.  :-[ The only reason I can think of for this is that they have yet to even consider your side of the story.

BW

OK one year ago today I knew nothing of any of this ..Gods timing is amazing...and I'm grateful ...I cant help but think the reason for no Apologys has to do with admitting fault not so much where Pride is concerned but I think some have been counseled this way...some may have desired to come forward...part of the "Devastation " may lie in a fearful paranoia of a Law suit and the bottomline...not that anyone is planning on suing to my knowledge..but theres something more here ...underlying as to why they can't admit their Wrong...and I hope MM is'nt falling for TG's advice...I continue to pray for MM and No I dont particuarly want to see anyone eat dirt..I used that phrase as thats exactly what I was told...and I just wondered where it was taking place...Theres  much more here then meets the eye if I rememeber the operatioal methods employed  when I was in....I htink their worried anything they say may be used against them in  a court of Law..which is ridiculous....and you see the tighthold the fear has on them would'nt it be better to just make Peace with those they have offended..better now  then later...

Well, you bring up a good point here, Summer.

I guarantee that many of the leaders are worried about lawsuits.  Up here in SLO, the LB's sent Judy a letter of apology.  I helped them write it, and signed it myself, along with them.  The reason I did this, is because one of them was extremely worried about what a public admission of guilt in this matter might do to him, should a lawsuit be brought to bear.   I believe my net worth was higher than the other brothers, so in order to show them that we were doing the right thing by apologizing, I signed my name along with theirs.  By doing so, I was admitting my guilt, right along with them.

Afterall, in a sense I was just as guilty, perhaps more so than they were.  As a liscensed DC, I am under obligation to report crimes of this nature.  Judy may or may not have been under my professional care at the time---new laws prohibit me from stating one way or the other---and Rachel was my employee.  Rachel reported to work with a black eye, given to her by her father.  I fired Rachel a short time later to get rid of the evil one, and guard the Testimony.  So I am guilty.  Quite guilty.  Rachel was the first person to whom I apologized upon leaving the One True Church.

To make a long story short, the LB's in SLO all signed this letter, and in so doing behaved in an honorable way.  Judy hasn't sued anyone, even though she works in a law firm.  

I don't know what would be worse--actually I do know, but for the sake of the here-and-now I'll put it like that---to not do the right thing before God and a wronged brother, in order to avoid penalty of law,  but incur the displeasure of God;  or to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and leave oneself open to a lawsuit, while being in a position of a clear conscience before God?

I chose the latter, as did a few LB's.
I know that Mark, Tim, and the rest would feel better if they did likewise.  He who hides his sin shall not prosper.....

Brent

Brent,

A few years ago, I was tipped off to the Rick Ross site (2000 or 2001 – not sure). I hadn’t thought much about the Assembly before that, but I checked it out. I also stumbled on a bulletin board and had a short correspondence with a guy who wanted some details about the Assembly because he was thinking about starting a website to post the info.

Was that you? It may have been John Malone Sr. I do know the timeframe was not too long after Judy left SLO to live with her sister because I exchanged emails with her (obtained her address from someone in the Midwest she remained close to).

I had forgotten about that. Just curious if it was you or not.

Scott

No,

It wasn't me.  It could have been Dave Mauldin.  He was talking about that a few years ago.

Brent

Thinking about a year ago today is a little weird for me.  When I first put up my story on the website, I really didn't expect anyone to believe me, let alone care.  My main goal was that the truth would be told and possibly someone who was just getting involved might be forewarned and have a second thought.  

With the news of George being under discipline, the impossible seemed to be happening.  I was very skeptical and wondered if it was real or just PR.  I was just starting to hear from people I had known as a child and reconnecting with them.  Some of those people I still hear from occasionally and a few I am good friends with.  I was also meeting some new people who had been involved with the assembly but I had never really known.  I kept hearing the same stories over and over.  It really was a relief to me because it reinforced in my head that I had not been the problem.  It was not my fault that my father and grandfather and the leadership had behaved like they did.  

I am glad for much of what has happened in the last year.  

A year ago!  We had just left the assembly within the last three months.  Everything was new!  Freedom!  My husband used to shout that over and over...........FREEDOM.....FREEDOM..........FREEDOM!!!!!

If any of you know my husband........so unlike him.  We have changed so considerably.  He has come out of his shell.  His former friends in the assembly, I doubt would recognize him.  My children........able to be............children............normal children........only those who were AK's can understand the liberty that brings.

The next week brought such hope...........the excommunication letter was being read......I thought our shunning was over..........there would be renewed friendships...........Our decision as a family would have been vindicated!  The truth was allowed to be talked about openly, in public.  

And then.........the ensuing month............people still shunning us as a family.  The leading brothers in the San Fernando Valley refusing to acknowledge or answer the charges and discipline that was being brought against GG. And finally, the dissolving of that fellowship without the restitution of some of my dearest friends of 15+ years.  Those who had been closest to me still considering that we were being "divisive, slanderers, gossiping, etc."  

How do you answer these charges in this environment.........with this backdrop??????????

We have moved to a different city.  Attempting to start over, with a new life, a new set of christian values...........not attempting to "control", simply to "be".  

I would do it again.  And again.  And again.  But at what price?  It was a considerable price!  Only those who have lived through this hell know what the price is.  And there are many of us.  And that is why we are here.  Talking, dialoguing, discussing what has transpired.  Not to gossip.  Not to remain bitter and in the same place, but to grow, to move on.  Some of us need this in order to continue on.....reflect on what we have been involved with for more than a decade (and for some, even longer.)

There is an ebb and flow just like the tides.  It is an ebb and flow of life.  To many, they don't understand. To those of you who do, thank you!

Kimberley I deeply sympathise. You will find that there is a reason the Bible tell us that so far as it is possible, we should be at peace with all men. Sometimes it is not. Walking away from a place where you have invested much in terms of  dear friendships and service can be most painful. Sometimes the call of God demands it...
Verne

One year ago today I registered on the board. I had been reading through it for a week or so prior.

The biggest thing for me has been the journey of discovery. I had rarely considered the Assembly since 1985. Over the past year it has become painfully obvious how growing up as an AK has profoundly shaped my life, whether I acknowledged it or not.

Wonder what's next on the agenda?

Scott

PS - Ten years ago today I was blessed by the arrival of Austin James. He doesn't know what the Assembly is and once told his friend that I spend a lot of time on some website called Yobsey! (YaBBSE).

Ah, yes the anticipation of the big meeting.

Interestingly, I had no fear or anxiety about that meeting at all.  Somehow, I just knew it was going to work out fine.  The one part that did surprise me was that George's conduct was exposed without my help.

At the very time we were repenting and reconciling, George's excommunication letter was being drafted.  God's timing is incredible.

I think there were like 74 new members on the BB the day that letter was read.

Brent

One year ago, I saw people who had leave the assmebly prior to "THE FALL" truly become free.

For most of us who had left before "THE FALL" it was vindication, but even though most will say they were glad they left before the house of cards fell, they still had some ties that bound them and preventing them from felling 100% free.

Because of one year ago, I can know say I see these people as having grown even more this past year, getting more involoved with their churches (errrr place of fellowship).  

I/we are very Blessed that God is faithful and judgement begins in HIS HOUSE.  

’Tis the grandest theme through the ages rung;
’Tis the grandest theme for a mortal tongue;
’Tis the grandest theme that the world e’er sung,
“Our God is able to deliver thee.

Lord Bless, and continue to pray for those that are still in shock and have yet to recover from their "lives" being turned upside down in one moment in time.

Cheers,
G

By this time, I was "secretly" reading the BB.  I wasn't brave enough to register until Feb.  I think in the next few days or so one of the workers actually asked me to print out some of the articles from the BB.

My attitude at this point, last year still contained much "heavenly vision".

I heard about the meeting in SLO, but didn't have very high hopes for it.  I had pretty much decided that whatever the asby in San Diego did, I couldn't be involved with Fullerton any more.

Scott mentioned below how he had not thought much about the Assembly since 1985, but when he heard the news about George, etc., he signed onto the BB and a lot of things came rushing back into his memory,
and he realized how much being an AK had shaped his life.

I left in 1980, and I've had some ask how I could still be concerned about the Assembly after all of those years. I believe it has a lot to do with the fact that when I joined the Assembly in 1974 I was in my late teens. In that 6 year span before I left I literally grew up into a man, and much of what I thought had been formed while being a part of the Assembly. During that time I had suffered a couple of very traumatic events, which changed my whole view of my value before the Lord. I finally left in 1980 feeling I was worthless before the Lord, and had left "God's best for me", even though deep inside I also knew that there was something very wrong about the Assembly.

During the following years I always "checked up" on the Assembly. I called Christian Research Institute in about 1983 and they had a small "folder" on the Assembly, and considered them an "aberrant Christian Group". A light went on, but I had no one to talk to about it, and still held to the belief that I had failed God by leaving. Some time later I received a publication called the "Noble Inquirer", which spoke about some of the Assembly's teachings--it was written by a few ex-Assembly people--but receiving that in the mail turned the light on even brighter. I was beginiing to think that maybe there REALLY was something wrong about the place.

It was taking years, but I was beginning to see that my leaving wasn't a "failing", but possibly a "choice" I had made due to my conscience. Finally, one night I decided to call George. I had to confront him, because I was beginning to see that I had been deceived, and hurt, and led astray by his teachings. He answered the phone. "Is this George"? I asked. "Yes. Who's calling please?" I answered "This is Joe Sperling. I used to be a member of the Assembly, but I really got hurt there. I wanted to talk to you about that". His reply was something to the effect that he didn't have time to go into it right now. "Why not George?" I asked. "This is George's brother" was the reply. "I thought you said you were George"?!? I said. "No, this is his brother. I've got to go now". (click) And he hung up the phone. I was incredulous. I called right back and a woman answered. She said George had just left for a meeting. When I asked about his brother she asked why I was asking about him--he hadn't visited for a long time and lived in another state. I was stunned----George had outright lied to me to avoid talking to a former member. When I mentioned this to some people still in the Assembly they refused to believe it, one saying to me"George is a very holy man, why would he need to lie to you?"

But now I KNEW that the Assembly had something very wrong about it, and it's leader wasn't the "holy" man everyone thought he was. Somehow I knew deep inside that one day this would all come to light.
Sometime in 2002 I put in "the assembly" on a search engine and found the Rick Ross site. There were just a few people visiting there at that time. Mark Campbell was posting there, and Brent too. Brent mentioned that he was thinking of setting up a website regarding the Assembly, and shortly thereafter it was in place. The events that followed moved swiftly, and one day in January 2003 I saw the actual excommunication letter for George.

It was the final confirmation. Every lingering doubt, held onto since 1980, evaporated. God had done many things with this "judgement", but one was to confirm to us that had left, that we had left for good reason. There was no reason to "beat ourselves up" for any "perceived" wrong, or to feel in any way that God viewed us in a lesser light for having left. As I looked at the letter of excommunication I looked back on years of doubt, and the long arduous process that had needed to take place to really get "free".

Some do not understand this, and belittle the concept that it could take 20 years to really find freedom from a bondage that had held one for so long. Unraveling deception can take time--maybe 20 years for me because I'm not so bright :D.  But I know another brother, who when he found the BB, had been wandering  for 20 years also in guilt and self-imposed misery--feeing it wasn't even worth going to church because he was so useless and worthless before the Lord because he "left" the Assembly. He is now attending church after all of this time, and is a bright contributor to the BB. "I will restore onto you the years that the locust has eaten..."

I believe when the Lord did this thing, that it was meant to expose and cleanse, but also to heal the many wandering and wounded sheep outside, under a cloud of doubt and uncertainty. When I look back to the events a year ago all I can say "God is faithful" and "God is good"!!!!

--Joe

Thank you, Joe for your story.  It is very insightful.

Thought I didn't leave solely because of Steve Irons leaving (we were considering leaving earlier), but we left during the exodus of 1990.  We had lots of support so we knew clearly why we left.

I am out of the Assembly longer than I have been in it.  I also live on the other side of the country.  Yet, for some reason I have continually had more interest in people of the Assembly than I have in any of the subsequent churches I have attended.

I often wondered why this was.  Why, when I had nothing to do, would I type "Geftakys" into Yahoo thoughout the years?

I guess because the Assembly was at such a critical, formative time in my life where I made most of my major life decisions.  Possibly because we lived in such tight community and created our own world forcing deeper bonding between us.  Maybe its just because for 12 years these people became my new family and leaving has all the emotions and broken bonds of a divorse?  Who knows?  

Whatever the case, when everything fell last year, I was amazed.

I learned something from this too.  For years, we thought we could help the Assembly through reason, sharing Scripture and talk.  None of these things helped those in the Assembly because the leadership controlled all of the variables.  They had the last word on Scripture, talk, and reason.   This is why, while the Noble Inquier may have helped a few on the outskirts, it was merely a lobbed ball that the leadership hit out of the ballpark.

At first, I wasn't completely comfortable with Brent's "you're goi'n down, Goldberg" WWF style.  But, I realize now that this was exactly what needed to be done.  Many have tried to "keep to the rules" and talk politely.  Many had tried to tell their story and reason with Scripture and confront.  As a result, they were demonized, ridiculed, and refuted.  The web site, on the other hand, held forth the smoking gun for all to see.  And no matter what the leadership did, it wouldn't go away.

I look forward to our trip to California in June/July as we will probably hook up with many I haven't seen in years.

-Dave


P.S.:  The concept of blogging has come in vogue in the last six months.  Brent was a blogger before blogging was cool.  Blogs (short for weB LOG) confronted many strongholds such as the New York Times, liberal media, etc.

Dave,

Thank you for explaining why I did what I did, in a better way than I could do it myself!

As you put it, we needed to play the game by different rules, as George's rules were not fair and allowed cheating on one side (theirs) but penalized the other side for fair play.

For example, according to George's rules (Code of Silence), Margaret Irons was a witch.  This is a slanderous lie, but it got George a first down, and called back the touchdown that Steve scored during his confrontation at the end of his service to George.

In the "new" rules that I played by,  we locked the stadium doors and knocked the bastards (oops) on their rear-ends and ran for touchdown after touchdown.  Mostly, they didn't even try to play defense, because they had never been hit like that before.  My son's 14-0 football team had this experience plenty of times this year.  "Tougher," teams, with bigger players were supposed to beat us, but they had never been hit hard before, and they played scared after one or two plays.  Football is a rough game, but there are rules.  All we did was apply the same rules to both sides, and the team with the better players (in this case the truth, not the people) won.

One of the biggest problems that my critics have with me is that they have an incorrect idea about what is "Christian" behavior.  They think that we should all have nicely combed hair, speak softly, and never, ever carry a big stick.  When someone hits us, we should turn the other cheek, etc.

Well, that's true, to an extent.  God was hardly a pascifist in the Old Testament.  Israel was emphatically told NOT to turn the other cheek.  Instead, they were told to kill everyone.  

Then,  at the incarnation, Jesus' peaceful, meek character threw everyone for a loop.  They expected Him to start restoring the kingdom, and were ready to take up arms and fight.  

This was the only time, that God turned the other cheek.

The next time He visits, He is going to bring violence beyond all comprehension.  In fact, His ever building wrath is going to be poured out, and people are going to be destroyed.  It's going to be horrible, terrifying, and devastating.  There won't be any cheek turning.  I suppose Christ won't be acting like a christian when He returns?

Remaining passive, when one has full knowledge of evil taking place, and when one has the ability to stop it, is wicked.  In the legal world, this is known as being an accomplice.  Imagine this:

"Your honor,  the accused was a minister of the gospel, a servant of God.  Although I knew he was running a prostitution ring with 11 year old girls, I couldn't say anything, because I am a christian.  I have been praying, however.  Please rest assured that God is on the job."

The judge says,  "So, you're trying to tell me that it didn't bother you that 2 dozen little girls had their lives completely ruined by this man, and that you knew about it and did nothing because it was against your religion?"

I think you get the picture.  With George, it was not quite as bad as the example above.  However, since I knew what was going on, and knew that no one else was going to do anything about it, I decided that I wasn't going to play with a handicap.  These guys were going to get tackled, rushed, and blocked hard. I wasn't going to politely speak in private, or agree to be quiet.

The rest is recent history.

The reason I stepped away from the website, is because the game has changed and my role as a player is not needed in the same way as before.  However, I predict that there will be a need for a little less combed hair and politeness from time to time.

Brent

A fatal mistake when you are dealing with spiritual darkness. In such a situation reason has no leverage and if you attempt to employ it you will bleed. Remember Keith Green's "No Compromise" album?
When dealing with spiritual darkness, as with physical, you command the light to shine...relentlessly! NOTHING else is effective. That is exactly what Brent did.
Satan will ultimately be destroyed by the brightness of our Saviour's appearing....
(2 Thess. 2:8)
Verne



We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
I John 5:18  

Hi all,

Dave and Brent have it right.  We played by the rules they made for us.  They respected no rules at all except for 1. Keep control at all costs. 2. Do whatever is need to achieve 1.

When we tried to address them through the Nobel Inquirer they just laughed and trashed it.  Dave wrote a good article addressing contradictions in GG's teaching.  It was about the fact that GG taught that you could not lose your salvation, but you could end up in the lake of fire.  :o :o :P

When Steve left, he wrote some excellent articles analyzing the many weird ideas taught by GG.  We enjoyed reading them, as they confirmed and fleshed out what we already believed.  I don't think anyone inside the assembly system was convinced by them, if they read them at all.

What Brent did was to go on the offensive, as he said.  He called people and asked questions.  I learned something from this.

Last semester I spoke to a professer at Talbot who is also a pastor.  He is having trouble with a guy like GG who is starting up his own little cult, and has about 100 victims in his group.

I told him what this website had accomplished and how GG was exposed.  He was very interested.  Maybe this technology will weaken some cultic groups.  If people can read anonymously, the Rule of Silence won't work.  Human nature is human nature...and people are curious.

Brent, you have my heartfelt thanks for what you have done.

God bless,
Thomas Maddux

I want to ask a simple question and that most sincerely. Tom the operative phrase here is when Steve left .
Why is it that only after leaving that so many of us brought critical faculty to bear on what we had been listening to and at least tacitly agreeing with for so many years?
Did we all suddenly become smarter after our departure?
More discerning? What was it?
After all George just kept saying the same things he had said in all our hearing for years and we never moved to challenge the validity of any of it; at least most of us did not. We did all our talking after our departure...!
I have often wondered what I would have done had I been present when George opened his Bible and decalred that man was created on the 7 'th day...
I can guess what answer will quickly come to mind. Resist it, Really think about this, please...
Verne
p.s I do realise there are some people who still maintain there is nothing wrong with what George Geftakys taught...you are excused....

Verne,

Many of us asked questions, challenged what was being preached, and made it known that we did not agree with what George was saying.  I would talk to Roger Grant about George's sensational "prophetic" predictions after a weekend at the Midwest Seminar, only to be treated as if I was spiritually inferior - lacking the "vision".  I addressed George's behavior as not being Christlike - only to be told by a LB in the midwest to "be careful" what you say about the Lord's servant.  I was labeled as a problem and told that I was divisive - I had a critical spirit.  

My experience is not unique.  Verne, many of us questioned and spoke up over and over again.  My problem, you see, was that I wasn't saying the Selfer's Prayer enough, right?  

I don't really know why it is that now I see what I chose not to see for years.  Those still "in" are under that fog that has lifted from so many of us.  

But I just want to be clear that many of us spoke up while we were still involved in the assembly.

Verne,

Many spoke up. Remember that many left in the late 80's early 90's. LB's, workers, etc.

It was their time. They quit resisting. They'd had enough. They saw the light. Etc. Etc. Etc.

In an abusive situation such as domestic violence it is inconceivable to someone who is not in the situation that the abused person remains in their circumstance. But eventually they get out. When it is their time.

And every situation is different and every person is different so everyone's time is different.

I know women who left after being struck once and they never went back. I also know a woman who literally escaped in a Hollywood type chase as her abusive husband drove his car across the courthouse grounds in Tuscola. She crawled through a basement window in her house and barely beat him to the doors of the courthouse. This was after about 15-20 years of the most horrible abuse you can imagine.

The Assembly situation is not exactly the same as a domestic violence situation but there are many parallels. When asking, "why didn't you leave earlier" or "why didn't you say something sooner" you are going to have to accept the fact that their is no satisfactory, pat answer that covers everyone you ask that of. I guess you'll have to rest in the truth that God is ultimately in control and He always has been.

More will leave. When it is their time.

Scott

I think it is safe to say, given the revolving door of "fellowship," that the majority of people did indeed speak up.  

However, most people spoke up in private, and only once or twice.  How I wish I could go back about 10 years, and speak up in public.  Call the man on the carpet right in the middle of his own meeting!  That would be fun.

I would just have to look out for a few of the larger doorkeepers.....

What is needed in order to deal with a guy like Geftakys is to wage war.  We need to purpose to fight, with a goal towards hurting, and ulitmately defeating those that pollute The Faith.  Yes, we need to land blows, not merely beat the air.

The thing is, it isn't against a man that we have our battle.  It is against the spiritual wickedness that takes advantage of the false teaching and bondage.  If it was merely a human battle, then physical means would suffice.

What I am learning is that it is important to be careful about human collateral damage, when our fight is against principalities and powers.  I suppose not all of it can be helped, as we mostly don't come into something like this with a lot of prior experience.

I often wondered how Paul would have handled it?   I concluded that he would have written things, that didn't mince words, and to call a spade a spade.

Brent

Verne,

As others have shed quite a bit of light on your question already, I will just float a couple of ideas.

1. Remember that the fundamental force that keeps people in cults is emotional, not intellectual.  As long as the emotional needs are "met", the mind doesn't get too involved.
When emotional pain becomes strong, we wake up and start thinking again.

2. In my case, I was afraid that I would "stumble the little ones".
I realize now that this was planted in my thoughts by GG's ministry, but at the time it was a very real fear.

3. As others have said, many of us did speak up.  Steve Irons and I confronted GG about lying in 1970!  He denied it at the time, then ridiculed us later, (arrogant puppies was his term).  We were young, idealistic, and we thought GG had the answers to our questions.  His arrogance against our insecurities and inexperience...we lost.

I spent quite a bit of time in trouble with GG over various disagreements through the years.  I got "hammered" emotionally in LB meetings again and again.  My suppressed anger began to show up as depression and the "blickets".  

Finally I realized I had to get out.

4. Cult researchers have written about something they call "Equity Salvaging".  You have put so much effort into the group for so many years that you hope against hope that it will get better.  It is only when you see that it is hopeless that you leave.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

Tom and others thank you so much for your insightful responses.
I have sometimes wrestled with the thought that I sometimes over-compensate for my own former cowardice. May God give us all grace to always stand for righteousness no matter what the cost. I have recently had the occasion to put my money where my mouth has been...it is not easy let me tell you...you pay a price...



I've got your back my friend...none of 'em would have been big enough...  :)


Nancy's observation is why I started the "Why Leaders Are Resposnible Thread". George could have never done it without them. Never!!   :(
Verne

I was still in blissful ignorance reagarding how bad things had become in the Geftakys kingdom. Having left back in 1989  I had become happily married (the Lord gave me a remarkable treasure), and was joyfully attending and serving in a C &MA church in Champaign.

There is life after Geftakys!!   :) :) :)

I went to one Midwest Seminar meeting a few years ago where George was rambling on about "the flame of the lilly" and I thought that he had completely lost it. I left after twenty minutes, amazed that so many people were actually sitting and listening to this. I felt a profound sadness and pity that I could not quite describe nor fully understand at the time. I had maintained contact and good fellowship and friendship with Paul Hohulin, a former worker with whom I went to Africa in 2002, and would also occasionally talk to Wayne Matthews who was a leader in the Champaign gathering. Paul Hohulin told me about the website I think sometime in March and the first things I read were Judy and Rachel's account....you know the rest...
Verne


ps. Oops! I just noticed that I registered in the BB on January 12 2003 so one year ago I was already in the thick of it! My how time flies!!
Yep! My first post (now deleted) was on January 12 under the title of "Finally".
I wonder what I said...hmmmnn!  ;D

I shudder to think of Verne in the Meeting when 7th day was taught. I also wonder how long it would of taken me after ceasing to breathe for a second to bolt for the door in Flight and Fright...And Brent had you not taken Action do you think things would just be Business as Usual or do you think Delieverence would of come from someone else??This is Our Time ..Our Term here on Earth..If we Fail to Speak Out...God will bring Delieverence from someone else!!! If you have Fainted with the Footman.What will you do in the Floodgates of Jordan..Time to Speak for those Appointed to Death or to Weak/Beat-Up to Speak for themselves.....

Summer,

Two years ago mid-February at the last ECC, TimG spoke of his leanings towards a 'super-human' Christ belief. 3 assemblies were present at that time. I wonder if you and Verne had been there how you would have re-acted. In the past year I have questioned a number of people, including the local LBs here, and, except for Claude and myself, no on remembers TimG saying such a thing. What does that tell you of our spiritual condition. I include myself, because though we (Claude and I) queried Tim after the meeting, we excused him by saying something like 'he is influenced by his dad'. That should have turned the light on, don't you think?

Marcia

I may be Flattering myself thinking I would of bolted...I too could of been too Dazed and Confused to have Notice...I just hope that would'nt of been the Case..Maybe I would of just slipped out the back Jack...and noone would of noticed...

Hi Summer,

The 7th day creation of man was taught several times, from what I understand.  I had already left when he began this aspect of his Blurred Heavenly Vision.  

As for God delivering coming from someone else, I guess we will never know the answer to that.  I believe that it could be the case, certainly it is no hard thing for God.  However, I also believe that I was born to do this.  I know this sounds kind of cheeky, but I don't say it with an ounce of pride.

I didn't dream it up, plan it, or strategize.  I woke up one morning and knew it was the right thing to do.  As others have testified, I wasn't exactly getting overwhelming support, even from people who had George's number.  

I think that if we want to go into "what if's" the real question to ask is, What if Rachel had decided not to tell her story?  What if Judy didn't leave David?

While it is true that I badgered Rachel for months to post her story on the web,  (She wrote it more than a year before it got posted) it was her story that seperated the cracks and got a big piece of the roof to cave in.

I guess you can give me credit for motivating her.  Her success, in turn, motivated Judy to say something.  There is much more to be said, and I wish someone would say it.  Perhaps the next round of deliverance will come from another unlikely source.

I believe that it would have been business as usual, were it not for the website.  Sure, there would have been fewer saints, but the structure would have been intact and they would have been looking toward the future, instead of worrying about the past.

The main point is that if we take the attitude,  "I don't need to say/do anything.  God will deliver," we are pretty much useless and faithless.  All the talk about faith, standing for righteousness, spiritual warfare; it's all a bunch of hypocritical smack talking, if we back away from our opportunities like cowards.

That's what I was, a coward.  That's what the leaders are/were, a bunch of cowards.  George is the king of cowards!  He didn't have the gumption to say one word to preserve what he told us was The Testimony to Jesus!  He could be called a hireling, who flees when the wolf comes, except he was the wolf!

Paul stood up to the Gnostics and the Judaizers.  If George believed his own words, or if he had the courage of a little girl, he would have fought for God's Testimony.  The reason he didn't is because he had no moral leg to stand on, and is entirely devoid of courage!  No grit, no conviction, nothing!  He is to be pitied and loathed.  Even so, I pray for his repentance/salvation.  He alone can undo the damage he has done to so many.  Even George can be redeemed.

Whether he is or not, before he passes on, will answer many questions that we all have, namely, "Was God in this at all, or did He just keep me through my time in the cult?"

Like Aslan told Lucy, in The Voyage of The Dawntreader,  "It is never given to us to know what would have happened."

Brent

Marcia, you keep contradicting yourself.  The Assembly is Ottawa was not supposed to have been influenced by George Geftakys.  But his son came out there and taught, and you concluded that he was influenced by George???  That simply can't be, because George didn't influence the Assembly in Ottawa.  ;)

I think it's time to give Armand the credit for what Ottawa has become.  George didn't have any influence, so Armand should be held accountable.  That is what they imply when they say "George didn't influence us."

Like I told someone earlier today, reasoning with these people is analogous to dealing with heroine addiction by handing out brochures to addicts that warn them that heroine can cause drowsiness, which makes it unsafe to operate a motor vehicle.  I don't think they'll be too influenced by those brochures!

Perhaps it's time to roust some of these Canadian addicts from under the bridge, eh?  Throw 'em into the tank and let 'em get the shakes.

Brent

I don't want to get an Attiude here ..But is anyone planning a Class Action Lawsuit??? Just to see where Funds went ...If all the bases are covered by GG/BG they should have nothing to worry about..But if Money was Extorted under False Pretences and not used for purposes intended ..what does it say in Rom 13..If you do Evil Beware He does not bare the Sword in Vain...Just to get answers course any money recovered ..If Fault be found could go to charitable organizations/missions etc..And then again if GG/BG show everything was used for here and abroad documented their off the Hook so to speak..these are basic Laws of the Land  God has set up for Our Good.I dont think 5th amendment would be applicable in a corruption case like this ...Of Course to be Fair Innocent until proven Guilty in the Courts...Over the Years I was amazed no one had sued Him...And that he could get away with this...(I'm sure there would be lots of reluctant witnesses and perjury laws would apply or should we just count it all Loss for Christ?)

Joe's suggestion for a name for the Ottawa assembly would be quite fitting 'We Ottawa Were Not Influenced By George" ???

I sent Armand Delila's story and wrote to him, but I have been honored by the 'silent treatment' yet again, so I acn only speculate here. Yes Armand continues to excuse his past behavior, possibly something like 'we sincerely believed we were doing the right thing'. He has not yet apologized to Delila. AND other members of the "in-crowd" continue to make excuses for him after reading Delila's story (which I sent them). The people like it so...

Marcia

All right, let's see if I can formulate a halfway cogent question here.

Brent, you say you were born for a very specific purpose (or at least, this task was appointed you at/before birth). How specific do you believe God's plan is for our lives?

"For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Eph. 2:10 (I opened my bible exactly to this verse which I was looking for, therefore it must be a sign that I am on the right track, huh?  ;) ).

Are you saying that there are certain tasks that have been prepared for us to do? Or just generic good works - witnessing according to opportunity, etc.

What does God expect us to do to discover these specific tasks? Does he speak in that "still small voice" that whispered in your heart when you woke up?

Do you see where I am going with this? I feel that if you meant that literally you opened up a serious can of worms. Which is OK, I like worms, but can you elaborate a bit?

Thanks,

Scott

I guess in some ways my statement does open up a barrel full of worms.  I didn't mean it in that way, so let me clarify a little bit.

I am not saying that I believe each of us has a task list from God, that we can discover by some mystical or esoteric way.  I don't believe that at all.

I do believe, however, that I was born, grew up, and was shaped by all the events in my life in order to bring me to the present time.  My experience, temperment, talents and gifts were all in place 14 months ago, and I started the website.

I don't know how else to put it.  There is certainly scriptural backing for this choice, but that isn't what made me do it.  I don't think that everyone should do this, nor do I assume that it will be successfull in the future, although it certainly could be.  

Something had to be done, and the only thing that ever worked was the RickRoss website, where I had authored most of the articles.  This whole endeavor was put in front of my face one morning, without fore-thought.  I just knew it was the right thing to do, but I also chose to do it.

I didn't tell someone, "God told me to do this,"  I just told them what I was going to do.  I had total conviction that it was the right thing to do.  In hindsight, when I see how my memory, and confrontational nature came into play, I concluded that I was prepared to do this from birth.

I may be wrong of course...it wouldn't be the first time.

Brent

God is much more actively involved in things than we think.  He conceals his activities because our faith in him is important to him.


Once someone asked me about recognizing God's leading, and I replied that I usually recognize his leading after I fail to heed it and then later learn what I should have done.

Remember that it is not difficult for God to let us know what he wants by whatever means he chooses.  If he is silent, it is because we already know what we need to know.

In the C. S. Lewis' story, The Silver Chair, the children missed seeing the inscription because it was in a different form than what they expected.  Likewise, what the Lord says to us has ramifications beyond what we expect.

I kind of thought that's what you'd come back with. That's much more in line with what I have come to believe.

I don't believe any one person is uniquely qualified for any particular task but certainly God is able to put the right person in the right place at the right time for His purposes.

If you had resisted He would have raised up someone else. Maybe He called others previously and they resisted and you were the one raised up!?

Hmm. Limitless threads here. Just curious. :)

Scott

Perhaps I shouldn't have done it, and someone else was being prepared to do something better.  In that case, I guess I forced God's hand to move in the direction I wanted it to go?  

To me, there are a few things that are undeniable:

God used the website in a powerful way.  

I was not born to be a member of a vocal ensemble, or to do interior decorating.

I am well equipped for this type of thing.  One of my favorite things in the whole world is to be on the witness stand.  I simply love to be cross examined.  I have been grilled for over 3 hours by an attorney before, and it seemed like 10 minutes of condensed fun.  If I could get paid to argue, I'd work 80 hours a week.  I love this sort of thing.

As long as I know my subject well, like chiropractic, sailing, the Assembly, or breakfast cereal trivia, I look forward to matching wits against any and all comers.  That's why I say I was born to do this.

However, I'm sure my critics are cringing at these words.  Too bad we can't go back and undo everything to test other theories.   ;D   Humpty Dumpty can't be repaired, and I'm not sorry he fell of the wall.

I am sorry for some things however, and I posted them elsewhere on the website.

Brent

It's obvious to me. Right person. Right place. Right time.

No, I don't think you forced God's hand nor do I think you believe that either! Just thought I'd throw that part in there before someone else latches on it out of context. ::)

S

Tom,

When my dad left, this was his sincere belief as well. There weren't many (if any) of those who stayed that sought him out afterwards, but he was very reluctant to talk about why he left for that exact same reason (same jargon, too).

At that time he wasn't leaving because he was aware of the depths of the depravity in the Geftakys household - though it was beginning to dawn on him. And while he could see dimly that the Assembly doctrine was becoming Geftakysism, those ideas were not completely clear to him.

What he wanted was George's authority eliminated so the local Assemblies and the families therein could live free in Christ. It wasn't until later that the other errors in doctrine slowly became evident to him.

His exit was probably not as painful as the Irons' because he had several families stand with him, but even so it was very fractious and it broke his heart. However, there was the delightful compensation of being FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for the first time in almost 20 years.

I wish he would contribute here, but he won't. Even if he could turn on a computer by himself or type his name on a keyboard! ;D

Scott

Jack,

     Your last several posts on this thread are revelatory in a unique way.  Your reflections and insights have blessed me, and I pray they will bless many others.
     Please continue...

God bless,
al

Jack,

Ditto. This is an interesting perspective and you relate it well.

Thanks,

S

Chuck Vanasse and i feared that things were not quite right with these leaders, as they began equivocating their repentance very soon.  Even the letter they read Sunday morning was missing a key phrase that we had agreed on the night before.  

Danny remained pretty strong throughout, but the others wavered.  It was Ray Dienzo who was the first to take a stand.  I include his official letter of resignation below, which he hand delivered to the members of the SLO Assembly.  Remember, this was AFTER the reconciliation that this took place.  It shows, clearly, that leaders just can't snap out of it overnight!  This was a public letter.  I may release a few things, post-watergate style, now that everything seems to have solidified.  For some time, I have held back certain things, in hope that people would "get it."  I see no reason to wait any longer, or cater to them in any way.

Ray and I live a block away from eachother, and we are close friends.  My daughter rides with them to church most Sundays.

---

Saturday, January 25th

Brothers,
 
I think we need to face the facts.
 
The Lord wants to disband this system the in which we have been functioning as leaders.
 
We have acted sinfully:
in manipulating people by guilt to perpetuate a corrupt ministry
in slandering people who have spoken out against this corrupt ministry
 
The Lord wants to start afresh; but not with this present system.
 
I am formally stepping out of this system of leadership.
 
I exhort you to admit these things as well, and to step out, as is fitting.
I admitted the truth to Brent, in front of Suzie, that our motive in speaking with Bryan is not totally pure, but that we really wanted to see the website shut down.  I realize that this is wrong, because the website has been the source of our deliverance, and what it communicated is true.  Whispering, and manipulation, behind the back of someone who has shown courage and integrity, who has not lied to us, and who has been quick to repent, is sinful, and I won't have any further part in it.
 
Still your friend and brother
 
Ray Dienzo
 
 
 
Call me on my cell xxx-xxxx if you need to talk to me about this since I will be out and about.
 

Jack, I love your posts on this topic. It is like a BB Ebenezer fellowship.  Did you have Ebenezer fellowships or was Ottawa unique?  What does Ebenezer really mean anyway?

I forgot to post this on the 21st.
1/21/04

The letter of GG's excommunication was read at our Tuesday evening prayer meeting.  It was not a formal prayer meeting, but a time of discussion (so the sisters got to remove their head coverings).  It was that evening that I learned of the fact that the website had been around for a few months and that a couple of people had been reading it regularly to keep informed.  I do not know if it was that evening or one the following week's prayer meetings, but the LBs Armand Cossette and Dina Dinakaren offered to step down if we wanted them to.  None of us wanted them to do so. side-note-- this is a sharp contrast to STL and possibly other localities. --end-side-note  We supported the LBs, and till the day I left, I also did even when I disagreed on certain decisions (minor things actually).

I will now digress and share some thoughts on the subject.
Re. Ottawa LBs stepping down - the thought that went through my mind was, who would lead us then if these 2 stepped down?  They were the most qualified to lead the assembly.  They had the experience.  There were also the feelings of fear of being abandonned.  At that time I had not made all the connections about the assembly ie as to it being a false religion etc.  The assembly was the ' true way to meet'.  I could not even imagine the thought of going to another church.  Where would we go if things fell apart?  What would we do?  These were all real dilemnas to me.  Even through my discussions on the BB, I would still think that Ottawa could be an exception, though I would agree with most of what was said.  I would even give a daily report to ?? and ?? about the latest news from the website/BB.  That was an exception, as most people were not open to discussing the website information.  Though I discovered that more of them read it than let on, because that is what finally led to my being excluded.  It was my calling the assembly a cult on this BB.  I had not done this in private emails and/or conversations with them.

Anyway...
Lord bless,
Marcia

Excerpt from Ray's letter:
"We have acted sinfully:
in manipulating people by guilt to perpetuate a corrupt ministry
in slandering people who have spoken out against this corrupt ministry

The Lord wants to start afresh; but not with this present system.

I am formally stepping out of this system of leadership.

I exhort you to admit these things as well, and to step out, as is fitting.
I admitted the truth to Brent, in front of Suzie, that our motive in speaking with Bryan is not totally pure, but that we really wanted to see the website
shut down.  I realize that this is wrong, because the website has been the source of our deliverance, and what it communicated is true.  Whispering, and
manipulation, behind the back of someone who has shown courage and integrity, who has not lied to us, and who has been quick to repent, is sinful, and
I won't have any further part in it."

   It has been one year now and what has been missing is statements like Ray's above.   I am so glad to see that posted.   In my opinion, the public silence of  those who have truly repented has been a stumbling block for many of the former members.   You men (and many of their wives) are seeing more clearly now.   Please find in this lightt, the perspective of those who are struggling, wounded, proud or deceived.   You were at the Workers meetings, the leadership meetings  and you witnessed control and manipulation.   And you know that you also practiced it.

   I have heard it said that some may fear legal action...I find that hard to believe but I guess there could be some instances.  In which case, if you really feel that there are particular individuals who you believe would pursue this...I'd suggest contacting them and trying to settle it...if they want to pursue you with vengeance in their hands, it looks like a pretty rough life to live for both parties.   Please don't use this for an excuse if in your heart you know it isn't true.

  That leaves the majority of former leaders...Those that have seen the Light as I'm not addressing those who still believe that it was a True Ministry of The Lord by an anointed servant.

   Please comfort others with the Truth.

  Please know that there are visitors to this website who are looking for the Truth.

  Maybe when you write to Steve and Margaret Irons you can dialogue on a place on the Reflections Website to place your letters.
   A dear friend told me that what is needed is not quick healing but DEEP HEALING!

There are some out there who need to hear...please, face and  address your apprehensions and do what you know is right.

--Tony        

Marcia,

We had Ebenezer fellowships 2 or 3 times, all in the last few years in SLO.  We had always heard of these meetings taking place in Fullerton, though.  We were told that the name Ebenezer meant "hitherto the Lord has led us", which was related to the stated intention of the meetings, which was to be thankful for the previous year and to plan the outreaches for the coming year.

Jack

We would have these fellowships 2-3 times per year.  It was to review what he had done for the past 3-4 months and what we were planning for the upcoming 3-4 months.

Kimberley,

I have to correct you.  ;D These fellowships were not to review what God had done, but to tell everyone what God did.  God never did much of anything, especially in the Valley.  That Assembly never grew!

Ebenezers were all about making the little things into great big things.  Failure, impotence, stagnation...these were the halmarks of the Assembly.  However, we couldn't have an Ebenezer to hold these in memorial, could we?

Brent

Brent:

The "he" was actually a typo.  I meant to type "we" as in my following statement that "we were planning".......I have no illusions that God did anything.......especially in the SF Valley.  I know all too well that we never grew.  This was one of the things that always bothered me........you know.........weren't we supposed to be bearing fruit?

Kimberley---

I might have asked you before, but out of curiosity,
during what years were you in the Valley Assembly?

--Joe

Brent wrote:
"Ebenezers were all about making the little things into great big things.  Failure, impotence, stagnation...these were the halmarks of the Assembly.  However,
we couldn't have an Ebenezer to hold these in memorial, could we?"

MAT 8:22  But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

--Tony

Marcia asked, What does Ebenezer mean? We just looked this up the other day.  
The term Ebenezer came from I Sam. 7:12 and had to do with promoting the idea that The Lord Brought Us This Far, and Helped Us.  They filled up our calendars with busyness.
We had them at least 3 times a year in Omaha and Annandale.
As far as applying it to this thread and bb, it is encouraging to think over what's happened and to really be able to say, He has helped us.

BW

I was in the assembly from October 1987 through October 2002.  My husband Greg was in from December 1983 through October 2002.  I think you were gone by that time.  Mark Miller was around during Greg's initial time in the assembly (I knew him, just not as OUR Leading brother.)  Tim McCarthy was in full swing as THE Leading brother when I came in 1987.  Steve Ferrell (forgive my spelling if it is wrong) and Denise had just left with the taint of that whole situation just before I came in.  Believe me........I heard all the gossip.  Wait........I thought we were walking in greater light there........ohhhhhhh.....I forgot...........that was only for us peons..............the LB's and their wives could dish the dirt to make you feel "in the know" and "better than those other people without heavenly vision." ;D ;D ;D

Hope that answers your question.  I could fill you in on those who stayed around and you knew if you would like.  E-mail or whatever.....I'm a great talker!

Becky,

Yes, I did mean it the way you stated. In that sense it is good to look back and see how the Lord has brought us thus far and how He has helped us.

Lord bless,
Marcia

     One year ago today I registered on this BB.  It has been one of the most amazing, instructive, awful and wonderful years of my life.

     Thank you, Lord.

al Hartman

Interesting question: what was I doing?  I was out and in a small city where those who were just getting out could easily have found me, told me.  Nobody did.  I have since called some who are, as Marcia put it "currently infecting' other Christian gatherings.  But most - I think it's safe to say for the Very Most Part - people who left the assembly - either bc theirs closed or even bc they wanted to - are not talking.  Why not?  Because they are still under GG's influence.  Because they have no desire to sort through and see what was a lie and what is truth about the dynasty.  Because they still consider us as infected by the world.  They see God's love as coming from what God did (their perception) in the assembly.  To them, the assembly is still the conduit of the 'work of God'.  Regardless of the time that's passed, I believe this is the truth.  I've been reading through old letters I'm surprised have survived.  I have one from Tim and dialogue from Bernie Cossette - a phone call I had with him after I 'rediscovered God' more than a year after leaving the assembly.  From both of these, and from other letters, I see that their 'walks' with 'the Lord' were totally dependent on what they received from higher up.  In fact, the last former leading brother I spoke to told me "But the Lord really spoke to me through Tim's ministry" implying that of course, Tim should continue.  So then, I thought afterward, did the Lord not speak to you through George's ministry?  Is there just that much more evidence against G that even their warped consciences can't accept that he was really God's servant?  That's why this rebuilding bothers me so much.  Tim is a fraud, part of the GG dynasty just like his father and Dave.  It's been more than a year now since the 'great fall' of that dynasty and still, brains are shut off.  The erasure of self must have been quite complete.
delila

Delila,

Your last sentence struck me as being so true!  

Even though I've been a year "out", I'm still struggling to achieve a remotely normal life balance.  In some social situations I feel like an alien.  Before I was in the Assembly (and I was only in for 2 years or so), I was active, well rounded, with a large circle of diverse friends.  Last February I found myself with family (only due to the Lord's grace) and one or two friends who loved me in SPITE of my behaviour whilst in the Assembly.  

Now, a year later, I can't say I've got that many more friends, actually I have fewer because "friends" from the Assembly have dropped like flies out of my life.

I have a feeling that I'm on a longer road to recovering my life than I first anticipated...but I'm glad to be on it, because it's AWAY from a legalistic, narrow-minded "Christian" system!  

I'm also on my way to financial freedom as well, as the advice from a Geftakys nearly decimated me financially - it was reckless counsel to say the least, and I, the fool, followed it.  But the Lord is one of redemption and saving grace - and He's working faithfully and LOVINGLY in my life!

Hi The Missus:

I'm glad to hear that things are getting better for you.  

As many of you know,  I have the annoying habit of specializing in unsolicited advice.   ::)

May I ever so gently offer you some unsolicited advice?  A good next step to recovery would be to use your name on your posts.  

You certainly don't have to, and are most welcome to continue as is.  However, there is something quite empowering about saying what you believe and putting your name on it.  You own your words that way,  and I have found it makes all the difference!

Give it some thought, and remember, it is unsolicited advice!  

Brent

Delila,
About that erasure of self.  I found a copy of the devotions from the worker's conf. Aug./2002, which says: " You cannot be hurt by men.  You cannot be hurt by devils.  You can only be hurt by self, your own pride and the violence of your desires.  Your self is the greatest devil of all."
-Michael Molinos, The Spiritual Guide

I won't quote the rest, it's all bad.  We looked the author up, finally found him in The Pilgrim Church.  But his name was Miguel De Molinas, a 15th century mystic. I don't remember what I thought of this devotion when I first read it after a meal up there. Probably I thought, is there any more coffee around?
But after almost a year out, it sounds...ridiculous.

themissus,
Contrary to the booktable book title, we in the assemblies were not really Competent to Counsel.  In most cases, we were far, far from it.  I'm sure most intentions were good, but results were not, because we were so limited in our closed circle, thinking we had things to offer but little to learn from the larger Christian community.  Your financial counsel experience is not uncommon, we know of a number of other bad counsel situations in addition to the ones made public in testimonies.  I trust and hope that when (or if) the brains turn back on, apologies will soon follow.

Brent,
We have been criticized for participating in this board.  Part of our recovery process has been to say to the critics, Yes, it's us, the formerly too quiet ones discussing these things.  If you think that's wrong, fine, that's your opinion.  We refuse the idea that it is personal attacks, slander or anything else, to break the assembly code of silence in this way.

One year ago today was Super Bowl Sunday. And our last assembly meeting.

Becky,
one year older and a little wiser

Below is a word for word transcript of an email I received recently from someone who received it when they were a student on a campus in the assemblies. It was written in the fall of 1999 and illustrates the level of control that the assemblies and the campus work sought to have on others.  I have removed all names out of respect for the privacy of those who received the email. Suffice it to say that three of the recipients were newly involved and wisely didn't stay involved very long:

"Dear Fellowlaborers,
As some of you already know, I am responsible for the campus booktable and prayer meeting this semester.  Consequently, I wanted to use our new group e-mailer to just let you know a few things about this ministry.

1. New campus workers - ___,____,____,____, and ___ should each schedule a individual meeting with me sometime in the next few weeks.  I want to discuss basic aspects about the ministry and to find out how each of you are doing. I am free every morning for breakfast except Thursday as well as for Wednesday lunches.

2. Please communicate with me about anything and everything having to do with the booktable, prayer meeting, rally, duties, etc.  I want to know when there is a problem or when you cannot make it to an activity.  We stand together for each other in this ministry by communicating with one another, taking counsel with one another, and in prayer.  So please let me know if you cannot make a booktable or prayer meeting.

3. The gospel rally next Friday from noon to 1 PM is not optional (underlined). I give you this notice so that those of you who have class can make any necessary alternative arrangements with your Profs and TAs.  I expect you to either be there or to see me about why you cannot be there (underlined).  I do not expect everyone to share a message at that time but I do expect that you will talk to me if you cannot.  Your contribution is very needful whether or not you share.

4.  The Lord has entrusted us with a stewardship in the campus ministry.  The only requirement of stewards if FAITHFULNESS (underlined).  Success in the campus ministry is not based on gifts, experience, numbers, flashy banners, etc...but on faithfulness to what the Lord calls us to do.  If you commit to stewardship (even just being at a certain place at a certain time) be FAITHFUL to it or let me know so that you can be let of of your commitment.  Please keep this in mind as the stewardship is something we all share equally, my contribution being no greater than yours.

5.  Please contact me IN ADVANCE if you cannot make a booktable or prayer meeting (underlined).  My phone number is______and my email is ______.

6. In general, see me BEFORE you schedule meetings (even with ____(an LB) during booktable.  There are over 100 other hours in the week to meet with people (underlined) so at least try to talk with me before you schedule a meeting during that time.  Also, booktable time is not a good time to schedule anchor groups or to meet with your TA.

7. I know that many of you are VERY BUSY.  Please talk with me if your duties in the campus ministry are becoming too demanding.  We all stand together and will try out best to help relieve you of any overtaxing burdens.  Just let me know.

8. Booktables on Tuesday begin at 11 AM and end at 1 PM and on Thursday begin at 11 AM.  From now on we will have the booktable set up prior to 11 AM and taken down at (not 15 min. before) 1 PM. This will begin tomorrow when I arrive at 10:45 to set up the booktable before the rest of you arrive.
 
     In a related note, either be on time or let me know that you can't be on time. (underlined).

9.  Next semester we will have our booktables at the same time so please leave your schedules open during that time.

10.  If any of these things present a problem, just let me know.  The point is not to just burden you with rules and regulations but to teach you to labor with others. (underlined) Please see ME if you have any questions about these things or if you just want to talk about the campus ministry in general.
   In Christ,
    ___________"

Many of  the elements of an abusive system are there, I think. Thank you again, Brent, for the website and how God used it in our lives to deliver us. One year away from the assembly and counting! PTL
Pat Mathews

 :D

UGGHH!

That thing makes me sick!  The reason is not so much because of all the control language, but because I could have written that 6 years ago!  I lapped up that kind of garbage for most of my adult life!

Sick, Sick Sick!!

How much sweeter tastes the free air and living water!

Brent

Becky,

You formerly too quiet one, I do so appreciate your perspective, and I am glad that you are not succumbing to the 'control tactics' of your critics.  Participation on this BB merits one the honor of 'exclusion' by those who are 'assembly' sympathetic.

Lord bless,
Marcia

Incredible. Where is the emoticon that looks like it's going to vomit?
I hope none of my boys were victims of this. ;D

Yes,

Those who would still enforce the Code will exclude BB users, but remember, it was worse before we broke the code!  18 months ago, they would have yanked your inheritance and shut you out of "the Kingdom."   ;)

They are so much kinder now!

Brent

One year ago, today, was my first Sunday at my new church.

I went, expecting to be disappointed by the worship, and to find the ministry shallow.  I was wrong on both accounts.  I very much enjoyed the worship (but I don't think Clarence would :)).  I still very much enjoy the preaching/teaching.

It's taken a lot to get out of so many assembly mindsets.  There was a men's retreat soon after I started.  I didn't consider whether or not I wanted to go, I just signed up.  The funny part is that only about 10 people from my church went.  I really wasn't very good.  Now, I realize that I don't have to go to everything.

You are so right! Claude and I were talking tonight about assembly matters on the way to the Alpha Course. We agreed that if we had left the assembly (prior to when we actually did leave) because we could not handle the pressure of assembly life, then we would likely have been devastated. We would have felt like we were leaving God's covering, and that we were no longer in the center of His will and purpose for us etc.  Amazing!!

Now we are clear as to the reason for our departure.  And the others who have also left are happy and radiant whenever I see them.

Lord bless,
Marcia

The following is this person's followup email resulting from what was hopefully anger by the original recipients of the email. I find it a good example of demonstrated self-justification for the standards expressed in the Assembly:
(again, names removed)

"
Dear Fellowlaborers,
     After talking with some of you, I just wanted to clarify a few things.
         1.  The point of the earlier message is that youo should really try and talk to me when you know ahead of time that you cannot be at booktable.  If something comes up at the last minute and you are unable to contact me then just talk to me afterwards.
         2.  Regarding the "not optional" status of the rally, the point which I was trying to make is that the rally is an actual Bible Club event - so take it seroiusly, try your very best to be there, and let me know if you cannot. I am sorry if it sounded like I was condemming anyone who cannot make it to that time.
         3.  I also wanted to clarify my last comment about meeting with "ME" regarding any problems.  Please meet with ME for any booktable or prayer meeting problems but please feel free to meet with _____ or ______or myself for general campus questions.
         My main burden of the last message came about as a result of a large number of booktable absences without telling me beforehand or talking to me afterwards (of the five people who did not even bother to attend our last gospel rally only 1 told me in advance) as well as several communications problems that have existed in the past (of the four people who did come to the rally only two were prepared to share).  Also, I am informed that some of you are apprehensive about booktable or really don't fell that the Lord has called you into that knid of evangelism yet.

Consequently, I wanted to encourage you to communicate with me about these kinds of things rrather than just leave me expecting that you will be at the booktable and ready to share.
         Please feel free to let me (or others) know if you have any questions about these things.
                                 In Christ,
                                         ______________
"



I love how the constant expectation was that EVERYONE would be called into EVERY form of outreach EVENTUALLY.  Talk about universal and unrealistic expectations......no wonder there existed a hierarchy  :-X

--
lucas

This seems to be a case of the unwritten rules being written down.  How many would have stayed around if it had been this clear up front what was involved when you "made yourself available"?  Very interesting.  It usually took a much longer time to find out what was really expected of us.

Becky

One year ago today the Lord gave me a promise so that I would not be discouraged by the difficult circumstances.

Can you share it? :)

Campus Mininstry brings back some pretty funny memories....At least it's funny now.

Shortly after Tim Geffatass and I had our little run in California, I transferred from Wayne State to UNO.  I had already made my mind up to transfer prior to going out to the Winter Boringar in Fullerton, but prior to my run in, was all fired up to be involved with the campus ministry in Omaha.  After Tim Geftacobell and I had our "discussion", my desire to do anything with the ministry, much less be involved with the campus ministry
was lukewarm at best.
I remember going out "witnessing" to different ones.  Looking back, the should have called it "harassing"...I remember these poor souls would be minding their business, studying or reading a book in the student union or outside on a nice day, and we would go up and just hammer them.   We were such a nuisance. The won't take no for an answer attitude had to be a total turn off.

It really didn't matter.  I got up midway through my third Sunday "worship" and got the hell out of there.

What I can say is that it was combined with a kind of rebuke about the way that I occasionally offend people by accidentally saying the wrong thing.  Perhaps it happens more often than I realize since my perception of such things isn't all that clear, nor my understanding of people.  (A long time ago I remember accidentally calling someone by the name of a very unpopular lower form of life, then proceeded to botch my attempt to apologize.  Fortunately, this very nice person quickly forgave me.)

The Lord's kindness and love for me was evident because what was a rather stern rebuke was mixed with the promise in such a way that it hardly seemed like a rebuke at all.  I am inclined to believe that the Lord indicated the need for carefulness about such offences because his future for me includes being among people who must not be offended.  I think that my participation on this BB is practice for future situations of much greater significance than here.

One year ago today, having asked the Lord about how to be better prepared for his plans, he reminded me of an incident in which I couldn't quite remember who this person was that I was greeting but who seemed vaguely familiar.

It was another way to offend people: not to remember them.  More indication from the Lord that my social skills need to improve.

It was evident that the Lord wanted me to pay more attention and remember people.  While thinking about this, I started trying to think back and remember people from the past.  Then I searched the internet for the name "George Geftakys" and found the Rick Ross site and the Geftakys Assembly site.

These problems with social skills seem hard for me to overcome.  At the get together in memory of Marc Arambula I managed to offend a few more people who might not speak to me again. ...  Pray for me.

Stephen---

If it's not too personal, can I ask how you think you may have offended people at the gathering for Marc Arambula? I was unable to attend that day. Do you mean because you couldn't remember people? Or just your general conversation with people?

The reason I ask is because I have noticed(I get very self-concious at times) that often we blow things way out of proportion concerning social situations. I've gone out of my way to apologize for some perceived social blunder, only to find out that the person either didn't remember what I'd done, or to them it was such a small thing it wasn't worth thinking about a minute after it happened. Many of the people you may think you have offended might greet you with a warm smile, having forgotten anything that may have been offensive. I thought I'd just throw that out there, because I've found it so often to be true.

God bless you Stephen,   Joe

One year ago today, I officially left the Geftakys assembly.

Marcia Marinier
ex-Ottawa-Assembly member

Marcia,

     A very happy first anniversary, Sis, with many more to come if the Lord delays His return!!!

al

Happy anniversary. Freedom is so precious.

Lord bless
Hugh ;D

Thanks Al and Hugh,

Looks like I missed my 'one and true' independance day anniversary by one day (or rather, by a few hours). ;)

Lord bless,
Marcia

This is it the night of night. No more rehearsing our parts. Drum roll please. Guess what? No what. It's my anniversary. Your anniversary of what.

[size=12]I am one year old in the Freedom of Jesus. I left the ASSEMBLY one year ago. It is glorious. THANK YOU JESUS AND THOSE WHO WERE WILLING TO TELL IT LIKE IT IS.[/size]

Hugh ;D

Hugh,

Are you rejoicing or what?!! ;)

Congratulations!  and many more.

Marcia

One year ago today, I posted that I need prayer, and I still need it.
Psalm 125 is an encouragement to me in this matter.

Psalm 125:1-2
They that trust in the LORD shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.
As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.