AssemblyBoard

Brent

Are you joking when you label an "abusive culture" as a "small thing"?

GG's actions never have and never will be a reason for my departure from the Assembly system, nor should the actions of another sinful entity be anyone's.  

I should note, I am quite impressed by your realization regarding fairness of judgment where proof is not available.   Indeed, it does not fall upon the accused to prove innocence.  

--
lucas

I think abuse is relative.  The control and brainwashing is a small thing, compared to the alleged sexual impropriety, because the level of control and abuse in order to pull that off made the pressure to go on outreach quite trivial.

I suppose the only reason I said anything was to point out that there are more important issues than a single man's actions.   lucas

Lucas,
The man behind the instrument of all the abuse in the system was a man with flawed character. Everyone was influenced by him in every aspect of their lives, whether to abuse or be abused.  His alleged infidelity shows that he was not living what he preached to all of us. George and his behavior are the root of all the wrongs in the assemblies. His alleged abuse of women in the assembly is glaring proof of the phony he was.  

Regardless of his personal interaction with the elements that drove me away, it was still the elements and not GG.  I am not claiming that just because he might not have done the sexual deeds he is accused of that he is not a bad guy, heaven forbid.  

I have only stated that these elements exist and are important, GG's actions involving these women posing little relevance in this light.

If you choose to use his possible infidelity as a spearhead concerning the source of these elements, that is your prerogative.  It does not, however, diminish the fact that it was *not* GG who directly affected me while in the assembly.

(hi!, btw  ;))
--
lucas

Hi Lucas,

I believe that GG's warped life was behind all of the negative elements that drove most people away.  Everyone was affected by him. It influenced the way we looked at and treated ourselves and eachother.
He was allegedly cheating on his wife, robbing us, and allowing his son to abuse his daughter-in-law. It affected everyone.
Unless your issues were with the wooden chairs we had to sit on, you were affected by this man's life and how he treated people.  :(

Brent said below "Please read this": and I clicked on the hyperlink without even thinking first. I realized seconds later that I had been taken to a thread on the SWTE website which I have avoided since I made a commitment to do so a couple of months ago.

I read a couple of paragraphs of the post and was immediately reminded of why I have avoided this website. I backed out right away, after being blasted with a familiar hissing sound I had heard before when I used to visit there.

...avoid that place, and regret clicking on the hyperlink that led me there today. I understand why you would want to respond to it though Brent, and as always appreciate your comments. The truth will always remian the truth though, no matter how much a couple of people want to warp it, or twist it.

---Joe

  I am also in agreement with Lucas that when we only focus on GG's adultery we are trivilizing the real problems with the Assembly and really missing the point.  This was not just an issue of a church with a messed up Pastor!                                       God Bless,  Mark C.

2) Or perhaps all the 'people' (besides those from this board who journey out to 'reason' with the soaring group) on the soaring site are really just one guy (named Luke or something posing as one of the twelve) posting in the name of several other people to try and build a cyber army against the truth.

Haha, I like this one - but do I really exist? ???  ???  ::)  

Quite honestly, there is much that is stated on that forum which I personally do not agree with.  However, if I were to allow this to govern whom I choose to spend time discussing issues with, I would hardly ever talk to anyone ;)

As far as what is said on there.....I would prefer the existence of such places to be allowed, than for them to be completely outlawed.  Wouldn't you?  Be thankful we share the freedom toward this end, even if the responsibility it demands may be lacking.

--
lucas

Yes Clarence, and why did you not name names?  I think that if you did, your testimony would carry more weight.  Let's name names.  What are people afraid of?

delila

I don't know how effective this proof would be and I doubt that Brent believes it will be the killing blow, but I do know that Brent 1) has some experience in this arena, 2) understands the importance of body blows in a brawl and 3) is in this for the long haul.

Again, there is more at stake with this than just "proving" GG had affairs.

S

People are afraid.  The fear is very real.  I know some x assembly people who consider me brave to go on the bb and though we are in agreement about so many things pertaining to the sorting of deception in George's dynasty, they are very much afraid of adding their voices to this board.  And I'm sad for that, but some nights, I've been afraid of the dark too.  

Mom told us if we were bad the boogie man would get us.  Though I'm 35, I have to remind myself in the middle of the night when I hear a sound that wakes me - the neighbour's cat wacking the basement window above my bed or something - that there is no boogie man, that George has no power in my life now.  That I am free, that the truth is the truth, regardless of how careful people have been to cover it up.  Though your tactics have sometimes snowed me Brent, I agree with you about naming names.  

Let all the boogie men be identified for the cowardly fools that they are.  Stand up and take off your mask - all x-leaders - call a spade a spade as George would say.  Remember all those times George would say: "The Lord is here, saints.  That's why we come" and we all said "Amen" - it's time now to start naming all the things we were wrong about, remain wrong about, so that we can get rid of them.  We don't just need to cover up, deny or rename the items in the house of George, we need to clean house.

delila

Lucas:
Thanks for knocking some of the fluff out of my conspiracy theory.  Yes, they exist, these places, and no wonder... in a world where one can pay to have just about any body part pierced.  And you, kind sir, exist, really.  That's refreshing.  Just curious though: how do you feel when you return from such a place? I was there for such a short time (seconds) but I left with a belly ache.

delila  

Now, I personally disagree with a lot of the personal "comments" stated on that site.  However, I respect these comments as the poster's right to express as per their opinion, and simply exercise my right to not care about them, thusly I don't read them.  If your reason for reading through the site is based on a curiosity of who has been "commented" upon, of course you are going to get quite pissed at what is said, especially when it might be about you.  Be sure to understand why before you berate.

Now, what exactly is wrong with getting piercings?  I personally have been considering a tattoo, which is *technically* a piercing...a lot of small, incomplete piercings.... but yeah, same issue.... really  ;)

As for SWTE, it is the same as everything else; depends on your reasons for experiencing it.  I am there to have a thoughtful discussion on a topic that interests me.  Therefore, I feel quite good when leaving, as I love a good thought-provoking conversation.

Now, I personally disagree with a lot of the personal "comments" stated on that site.  However, I respect these comments as the poster's right to express as per their opinion, and simply exercise my right to not care about them, thusly I don't read them.  If your reason for reading through the site is based on a curiosity of who has been "commented" upon, of course you are going to get quite pissed at what is said, especially when it might be about you.  Be sure to understand why before you berate.  

Basically, any medium through which ideas are expressed has potential; you just need to find it.  
--
lucas

     OK, Lucas, as long as you realize that your tattoo will lump you into the same category with Christmas trees, television & wicca, and that none of us will ever be able to have anything to do with you ever again!!!

 ;D ;D ;D al  ;)

However, I think Brent is trying to strike a serious blow to the Assembly's drive to rebuild (no need to continue to refer to it as the 'former Assembly', etc.). Much of the impetus to rebuild is based on the perceived lack of credibility in regards to the accusations against George.

I don't know how effective this proof would be and I doubt that Brent believes it will be the killing blow, but I do know that Brent 1) has some experience in this arena, 2) understands the importance of body blows in a brawl and 3) is in this for the long haul.

Again, there is more at stake with this than just "proving" GG had affairs.

S

Concerning the issue of "free speech": Free speech not only governs a person's ability to speak their mind on a topic, but it also guarantees others the right to speak out against what the first person said.

Declaring someone as false doesn't go against their freedom of speech, it is just exercising mine (defamation, slander, libel are a different issue, basically one of going too far).

I know this guy who celebrates Christmas, has a tatoo, and a pierced eyebrow!

Man, do I feel better than him!  ;)

On another note, why not pierce internal body parts. In this case, we can have the satisfaction of knowing that we did it as a statement, and not just for shock value.

Brent

I dunno, it would be quite shocking to see a stud sticking through a person's midsection...... ;)

--
lucas

Brent,

   I decided to reply to your post because I do not agree with what you wrote and I do not believe that you believe it either. Just because you cannot prove that GG is guily it does not mean that he is innocent, now does it? It may be just as difficult to prove that he is innocent as it is to prove that he is guilty. And it is not our job to prove him innocent. Would we have a BB if we believed he was innocent?

   Even if we do not have factual evidence that he had sexual relationship with women what we know for a fact is that he is among the ones that are responsible for the deep emotional scars we all have. He is the one that brainwashed us and took away our dreams and goals. In many cases even our identity and freedom down to the very last bite. He was a CULT leader and the Assembly was a CULT.  One characteristics of the CULT is that the leader believes he is God or at least he hears God better that any of us.

   Our agenda should be to make sure people like GG and his followers will NEVER be in power again. Our responsibility here on the BB is to make sure that we make people aware of what is/was going on in the Assembly. Are not we all emotionally hurt by all what happened? Is that what we want for the innocent newcomers to experience and reflect on a year from today?

   Can someone tell me when we are going to file a class action law suit against these people?

areyougettingit

Tom, Delila ,Mark C., and Vern (along with a couple others)
Honestly I hardly think it worth addressing these people. When I hear these people I feel like Jonah as I’m sure many on the SWTE board do. I think why God?? It would have been better to have died in a whales stomach than to listen and hear this mess from these people..
   One of the best things I think I ever heard God say in the Bible is when he admitted Himself that the people of Nineveh were stupid but that he still cared for their souls.  Anybody remember this (Calvinists lend ear).  God said to Jonah, “And should I not spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than six score thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?” These people were dumbies.
   But, like with Jonah, God continues to use people who would rather be doing something else with their lives to reach the lost and the stupid because God still cares.
   
   I attended a church for a number of years that was always taking special offerings to maintain the ministry. No, the money was not begged for but it was always asked for. At first I was giving every time they said there was a need sometimes without asking God what He wanted me to do. But I thought of course God wants me to give. Also, I saw everybody else giving and I did not want to appear stingy with my money. I asked God why is it that I give when it is asked for and I am not reaping any? The answer was simple. I was giving because man asked of me and not God. Also, because my emotions led my actions and not His Spirit.
   So, for a period of time I had to sit in the pews and pass the offering bucket because God was telling me not to give. Sounds crazy right? I sat there near the same people I had for years and passed the bucket. Seeing some friends give money that had less money than me. I went through the feelings of guilt. Every time I asked God  can I give now? And for a month the answer was no. Then at the end of a month I knew God told me “yes. You can give again but, remember to listen if it is Me asking it of You.”  Some of you may say that that is silly spiritualism. Whatever. We are suppose to be led of God. We are suppose to hear His voice. We are suppose to walk under his direction “to the left, to the right.” Since then I have experienced the blessing of sowing and reaping. This lesson was the purpose of my experience. I could have left there upset with my pastor for asking for money but I knew God had me where he wanted me at that time. God knows the tool to use and the method to produce results. That is if we are moldable.
   When I read comments like Mark C.’s, “What I was concerned about was posting of any links to the "Soaring site", where not only are teachings of the late great Witness Lee proffered , but also those who are expert at rending souls in their malacious jaws!” I am amazed. Do not others judge this tree by its fruit? Or are these vicious slanderings a “new” fruit of the Spirit which I have not heard of? The people on this bulletin board seem to go from under one “ego-maniac (G.G.)” that they complain about on a daily basis to submitting to the ideas of another group of ego-maniacs who want to filter what the others on their precious ABB experience.
   The ABB is exactly what we do not want to see happen in Iraq. The hoards of people being transferred from one legalistic abusive regime to another. But the fact of the matter is in the end the people of Iraq will be led by who they want to be led by. While those that saw the abuse and offered a way of escape can only in the end say that they tried to help them.
   The people on this ABB that are sincere in their search for truth ought “remember” not to dwell on the bondage they experienced in their Egypt experience. But rather they should remember the deliverance and the God who is Mighty to save that split the seas and released them into new territory. And remember the promise God gave concerning their future.   
   I am afraid that if people here do not start thinking for themselves and depending wholeheartedly on God to be able to show them the way into the promised land then, they will find themselves once again surrounded by pyramids. How could this happen?
   It is crucial who the innocents on the ABB are listening to.
Remember in Numbers 13 when Moses sent spies to search out the land of Canaan that God had given to His people.  When the spies came back to the camp they said yes the land is good  BUT, the people are strong that live there and they put fear in the hearts of the children of Israel. Caleb was the one to still the commotion and say “Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome!” When the people heard this it says in Numbers 14 that they cried and they remembered Egypt and the wilderness. Then they started saying “were it not better for us to return into Egypt?” And in verse 4 they said “ Let us make a captain, and let us return into Egypt”
   God places us in situations that we can walk away from with Him and have learned more about Who He IS. Or we can walk away but stay wandering and seeking out another person to lead us.
   The leader the children of Israel chose to direct their thoughts and actions were people that were giving direction from a point of hurt and fear instead of faith. The children of Israel wished more to speak of the past abuses of their Egyptian slave masters than to focus on their future promise. In the end God said these people that cried and were full of doubt based on their experiences would not see the promised land.
   Who would see the promised land? Caleb. Why? Numbers 14:24- “Because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed Me fully, him will I bring into the land wherein he went; and his seed shall possess it.”
   So, I would encourage the “innocents” of the ABB to take responsibility for and be accountable for their actions that involved them with G.G. ministries. Understanding that there is no condemnation in Christ. Do not heed the messages that spew of pride, hate and hurt from the mouths of the ‘so-called’ wise (Tom, Delila ,Mark C., and Vern to name a few).
But rather in fullness of faith and with the help of the Holy Spirit be led in strength not looking back to the pillars of sand that lie in the past.
   Enter into the land that was promised you.  

Dear Sarahhoffee,

I do not know much about Delilah, but I consider it an honor to be included on your list of bad guys with Mark C. and Verne. If being associated with such men is my worst failing...I'll count myself blessed.

However, it would be nice to know exactly what I am accused of, other than vague accusations about "spewing out hate and hurt".

Would you be so kind as to try to be specific?  Perhaps you could make a brief list of my transgressions?  I must confess I find your long treatise somewhat vague.  In fact, I can't understand it at all!

Perhaps, I am like the Ninevite "dumbies".  Most theologians think that this refers to children, not stupid people.  But then, I do not claim special enlightment from God.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

Brent,

   I decided to reply to your post because I do not agree with what you wrote and I do not believe that you believe it either. Just because you cannot prove that GG is guily it does not mean that he is innocent, now does it? It may be just as difficult to prove that he is innocent as it is to prove that he is guilty. And it is not our job to prove him innocent. Would we have a BB if we believed he was innocent?

  Our agenda should be to make sure people like GG and his followers will NEVER be in power again. Our responsibility here on the BB is to make sure that we make people aware of what is/was going on in the Assembly. Are not we all emotionally hurt by all what happened? Is that what we want for the innocent newcomers to experience and reflect on a year from today?

I mean totally internal, so it doesn't show.  Then, it demonstrates true committment to art.

Brent

I decided to remove my post from this board. It will still remain on SWTE.

Scott-

I couldn't have expressed it more eloquently. ;)

I decided to remove my post from this board. It will still remain on SWTE.

Scott-

I couldn't have expressed it more eloquently. ;)

>On what grounds specifically would you like to file a suit? Are you paying for it to be filed? How much do you have to pitch in?

I sense a little sarcasm here. Did you really think that by verbally expressing our feelings on a tiny corner of the web would accomplish the agenda? Have you been emotionally or physically abused, mistreated, misguided, taken advantage of, controlled, etc while you were in the Assembly? Do you think you are the only one like that? If I may ask, how much of your own money you gave to GG's Assembly while you were in it? Would you not want to make sure that this time your money is well spent? Plus, if only what I read on the BB was true, I think we have a legitimate case against the exploit that occured. I believe we need to be united and talk about what our goal is. And I am convinced there will be enough people to testify...

areyougettingit

  Hello SaraHoffe,

    I take it that you are upset with me.  As with Tom, I had trouble following your thinking, but it seems that you believe that I am some kind of leader here.  I am just one of a number of posters here who share our opinions on the Assembly.  We would have a better conversation if you were more specific with the issues that you disagree with me about.
   I believe that your main concerns were the things that I said about the "Soaring" site.  I do not read on the "Soaring" site, and so my "negative" comments were only re. the link that Brent provided in his post.  When Sondra posted on this BB she held teachings that were very similar (if not the same) to Witness lee which are clearly heretical.  I attempted to engage her in conversation and she refused all attempts at entreaty.
    I sense the influence of her postulations in your rambling post, and you even seem to sense that people might believe such thinking is crazy (see your quote above).  Where Matt is in all this I don't know, but it has been my personal experience that he is not only not honest, but is malacious; in other words he is a danger to those seeking recovery from the Assembly, and the Bible identifies these kinds of people as wolves.  Yes, he is just a pup in his wolf like ways, but if he continues on his present course I predict a full grown set of teeth.
   It is not "bringing condemnation, fear, and guilt" to identify evil and avoid it.  Paul was very strong in his condemnation of those who preached the false kind of spiritualism that Sondra proffers.  If you wish, we can have a specific discussion where we can talk about it in some detail and I can make clear to you why I say what I say above.
  You say, "God should lead us alone", what do you mean by that?
What exactly causes you to believe that I, along with others, are leading people by, "fear, guilt,etc." ? and, what do you mean by following the Lord in "the fullness of faith and with the help of the Holy Spirit?"  How does God do this for you and how can we follow your admonition to do so?
  Yes, it does seem "crazy" to me, and it does appear that you are following some kind of false "spiritualism", but "whatever" is a very poor response to what some wiser sense may be alerting you to when you made that comment.
  I wish you only to know the truth of the Gospel and the blessing of a true walk of faith with God.  Good clear Biblical thinking is the only solid foundation to attain this goal.  False spiritualism that believes in some inner sense to guide them is indeed only an "ego" experience based on one's emotions.
  At the least it is sensual, and at the worst it can be demonic.  I know as I have been there and done that! :'(   It led a good friend of mine into a psychiatric ward and eventually to rejecting any belief in God.
                                       God Bless,  Mark C.

>Who's we? Who are you? What's your agenda? Where have you been the last year?

We, the people that were emotionally scarred.
My name is not important. What matters is that I am on your side.
My agenda is what I wrote in the post: to make sure more innocent people will not be involved in this Assembly=CULT thing.
That is once again something that does not matter. Fyi: I have been doing my homework. I was not ready to speak out loud.

>Far as I can tell Brent has done about 90% of the work to bring down GG's ministry. Far as I know you have done 0%. When are you going to start? When you can sign your name?

I give a lot of credit to Brent and I applaude his efforts. I can only wish I did it myself. But the question remains would any of your efforts matter if the Assembly gets back up again and innocent souls get twisted? I think it is time for us to pull it together and fight back. We just have to stay focused and accomplish the agenda. What is our Agenda?

>On what grounds specifically would you like to file a suit? Are you paying for it to be filed? How much do you have to pitch in?

I sense a little sarcasm here. Did you really think that by verbally expressing our feelings on a tiny corner of the web would accomplish the agenda? Have you been emotionally or physically abused, mistreated, misguided, taken advantage of, controlled, etc while you were in the Assembly? Do you think you are the only one like that? If I may ask, how much of your own money you gave to GG's Assembly while you were in it? Would you not want to make sure that this time your money is well spent? Plus, if only what I read on the BB was true, I think we have a legitimate case against the exploit that occured. I believe we need to be united and talk about what our goal is. And I am convinced there will be enough people to testify...

areyougettingit

As for theories on who areyougettingit is, one possibility is that this might be a reappearance of Laurie / St. Louis sister.

Dear Sarahhoffee,

I do not know much about Delilah, but I consider it an honor to be included on your list of bad guys with Mark C. and Verne. If being associated with such men is my worst failing...I'll count myself blessed.

However, it would be nice to know exactly what I am accused of, other than vague accusations about "spewing out hate and hurt".

Would you be so kind as to try to be specific?  Perhaps you could make a brief list of my transgressions?  I must confess I find your long treatise somewhat vague.  In fact, I can't understand it at all!

Perhaps, I am like the Ninevite "dumbies".  Most theologians think that this refers to children, not stupid people.  But then, I do not claim special enlightment from God.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

Dear Sarahhoffee,

I do not know much about Delilah, but I consider it an honor to be included on your list of bad guys with Mark C. and Verne. If being associated with such men is my worst failing...I'll count myself blessed.

However, it would be nice to know exactly what I am accused of, other than vague accusations about "spewing out hate and hurt".

Would you be so kind as to try to be specific?  Perhaps you could make a brief list of my transgressions?  I must confess I find your long treatise somewhat vague.  In fact, I can't understand it at all!

Perhaps, I am like the Ninevite "dumbies".  Most theologians think that this refers to children, not stupid people.  But then, I do not claim special enlightment from God.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

Areyougettingit?

I don't know, are you getting it?  Why would we divulge to someone who will not acknowledge themselves, a plan, agenda, etc. (if we had one, I'm not saying anyone here DOES)?   ::)

You have got to be kidding?  While what you say may have some merit, ie, I wouldn't mind some of these leaders being prosecuted, etc., however, do you really think we would discuss this with someone who chooses to remain anonymous?  What turnip truck do you think we fell off of?  It is almost humerous.  Really, I could care less who you are.  But if you want to remain anonymous, I would suggest you stop asking publicly what people's plans are.  You are laughable!