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HOW MANY OF YOU TRULY RESEARCH THE BIBLE?
READ FROM COVER TO COVER, IN SEQUENCE ORDER, GLEANED FROM IT.  NOT JUST A DAILY DEVOTIONAL, OR BIBLE STUDY EXERCISE.
JUST TO DO IT TO LEARN FROM COVER TO COVER, WHO JESUS OF THE BIBLE IS.?

Not because you had to , to prove what a good Christian you are.
Because you loved the stories, words, .
HOW MANY , of you have took, verse by verse, and asked God to tell you what was meaning this verse, what was the purpose why this particular verse was saved for us, to use.
Who were these words spoken to . Why were they spoken to these groups of people at the time. Why did these people needed to hear these words.
In  2 Tim. 3:16-17:

ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVE BY INSPIRATION OF GOD(NKJV)
The NIV says All scripture is God Breathed and is useful
for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. So that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The Message gets to the point:
Every part of Scripture is God Breathed and useful one way or another, showing us truth, exposing our rebellion, correcting our mistakes, training us to live God's way through the Word, we are put together and shaped up for the tasks God has for us.


So if God's word is supposed to be useful in our lives.
We believe it is the Word of God, that he has breathed life into pages of the books we now have the priviledge of reading.
That shows the consequences of walking a sinful life, and wear we can get the necessary help from the Salvation of the Lord.  Every word on every page guides to the truthfulness of our Lord, in keeping his promises . It is used to train us , how to seek God in those pages, how to ask God for assistance,
how God guides us over the next corner of our journey with him, how read and understand what he is really saying, help us to recognize the truth from the lie.
Show us his LOVE FOR HIS CHILDREN, show us what we need to do , and how to do it.  To leave us on our own, no  by eqipping us .

SEE WHERE I AM GOING WITH THIS.

WANT TO GIVE IT A WHIRL .

FEEDBACK IS MOST WELCOME

Lenore,

I have read through the Bible a number of times.  I used to try to do it yearly.  I hadn't done it for a long time, but I bought a new NIV and a new NASB last year, so I read all the way through the NIV.

I enjoyed it very much.  Readability was a primary goal of the translators.  I has some problems, but I liked it much better after I had read it.

However, I don't ask God to tell me what each verse means.  I am no mystic.  

There are some verses that no one knows the meaning of.  An example is the passage in I Corinthians that speaks of being baptised for the dead.  I know that reference Bibles and commentaries try to explain it, but no one really knows what they were thinking when they did it.

Another example is where it talks about Nicolaitans at Ephesus in Revelation 2.  No one really knows who they were.  There are some traditional interpretations, but there is no record of these folks, so it is all conjecture, other than to say that they had some moral problem or other.

All scripture is for us.  But all scripture is not to us.  The Bible was written to audiences.  Ancient Hebrews, Jewish Christians in the first century, particular churches.  It contains different kinds of literature, history, poetry, apocalypses, moral instruction, doctrinal teaching and so on.  Each type, or "genre" has its own rules for understanding it.

The big question for understanding the Bible is: "What did the original hearers understand this when they heard/read it?"

2 Peter has a few words that have never been found in any other book or inscription.  So, other than guessing from the context, no one can say for sure what they mean.

People have been discussing and arguing about the warning passages in Hebrews for centuries.  Again, no one is sure.  Generally, people's theological system determines what they think.  People that beleive that you can lose your salvation see warnings against that.  Reformed people see them as warnings about something that can't happen, but that make you serious.  And so on and on.

If all we had to do was "ask God to tell us", I doubt that there would be any differences of opinion by now.

The Holy Spirit is given to all believers.  He makes us capable of understanding spiritual truth.  But there is no guarantee that we will understand everything.  That is why we must continue to read, think, study and learn.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

Hi Tom, that was a very balanaced well-written post, thank you.

In response to the last bit, a question I have is why is it that the truth is not readily apparent (back to that whole Razor thingy)?  And, if the Spirit of God lives in us, why do we not clearly see the truth always?  Jesus said that the when the comforter comes, "he will guide you into all truth."  But that doesn't seem to be the case.  I guess I'm kinda dissapointed.  Also, Jesus said "If you continue in my word, you shall be my disciples indeed, and you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free." So, how long will it take until the light dawns upon us?   The truth seems so elusive, subjective, and mutable.  No wonder pilate asked what he did.  You say there are things in the Bible that no one knows what it means.  I thought so.  I hate it when people fake the answers.  It's probably because after all those years of studying and also having a title, they'd better come up with something or look stupid, lol.  But still, I am disappointed that there are unknowns.  


Arthur

Arthur,

A few thoughts in reply:

1. Jesus promised the apostles that the Holy Spirit would guide them into all truth.  First, he was talking within the context of salvation and living for God.  I don't think the HS told them anything about economics or whatever else.  Second, the promise wasn't to you and I, it was to the apostles.  We have what they learned in their writings.

2. The Bible tells us that we are to be renewed in the "spirit of our mind."  God doesn't take out all false knowledge and just plug in a new motherboard or something.  We still have a human mind, but something deep within us has changed.  We are willing to recognize our sin and need for salvation.  We are willing to "all be taught of God."  We still must learn to walk with God.

3. Our capacity to aprehend truth is limited.  We are finite beings, and God, the source of all truth, is infinite.  We can't really even understand what that means.  Theologians speak of the "perspicuity" of scripture.  The scriptures are very clear about how to be saved and how to please God.  Things like prophecy, church government, baptism...less clear.

Paul said, "we see as through a glass, darkly."  (Notice my memory is still filled with the KJV.  I don't think I will ever shake that.)  The good news is...."but then, face to face."  And..."we shall know even as we are known."

So, for now, we walk by faith, not by sight...maybe that's why it has to be that way.  BTW, I don't think truth is mutable.  It's just that we keep on seeing more and more details.   Sort of like penetrating levels of reality.

4. Many Christians substitute mysticism for knowledge.  I once had a woman tell me, "God told me to buy new furniture for my living room."  That sure makes it easy.  You never have to think your way through hard problems.  You never have to trust God when you aren't sure what you should do.  

But, you know, Arthur...when you have had to trust God in some dark time, and then looking back you see how he kept his promises and was giving you understanding even when you didn't want to see it...you realize that He is our Father and is training us up as his sons.

God showed me problems with GG and his "ministry" years before I was willing to receive it.  Again and again, yet I wouldn't act on it.  So, I was allowed to reap what I was sowing until I had had enough.  What a lesson!   I have learned to trust God, and that sometimes means trusting my own inner wisdom as I seek God's will.  So many times I have had to just make the best decision I could, and then it has turned out to be a good one.

Of course, there have been some "less good ones" too.  But you know what, Arthur?  I have learned good lessons from those mistakes.

I have always had lots of questions.  Many have been answered.  Others have changed, I saw that the real questions were different, so I quit asking the old ones and moved on to the new ones.  Since God is the source of all truth, I believe that if we ever understand it all, it will all fit together and be a wonderful testimony to the goodness and wisdom of God.

Every time I learn an answer, it leads me to the next question.  But I enjoy it.  It is an adventure.   We have no right to demand that things be simple, just that God keep his promises that He will never leave us or fail us.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

So what are the next good, real questions to ask?  I think I ask the same questions over and over again.  I don't think I know how to move on to new questions anymore.

Arthur

Arthur,

I think it depends on where we are.  I remember that years ago I was very preoccupied with two questions: 1. Which church is the right church? 2. How does God guide us?

The assembly experience caused me to re-think the first one.  You can easily see why that is true.  Instead of my original answer of "Where do they do it according to the practices of the New Testament?" my question has changed to, "Which company of God's people should I be serving among right now?" " Where should I invest the gifts God has given me for the years that remain to me?"

Regarding God's guidance, I gave up my fumbling attempts at mysticism years ago.  I beleive that God is able to guide me in many ways but that the primary ways are: 1. Morally through His word. 2. By teaching me wisdom by His word and by life experiences.  God is in charge of the universe, so everything is under His providential control...even the evil, though that is hard to understand sometimes.

I also have come to believe that the way God made me is fundamental to His guidance in my life.  The deep desires of my heart that persist over time arise from "who I am".  God is the designer of the human heart, and mine responds to certain things.  

It makes sense...God, who made us, leads us into purposes that are deeply satisfying to our hearts. (Fathers love to bless their children)  One question to ask when thinking about your life is "what thrills my heart"   "What do I love to do?"  For me, learning and teaching are real "cockle warmers".

That "go the way of the cross" stuff that GG, deeper life folks, and the PB's are always talking about, IMHO is wrong-headed.  The cross is where we get "into" Christ.  It deals with sin...not our hopes, aspirations and dreams.   That belongs to the realm of the resurrected King ruling through the Holy Spirit in heart and world.

The idea that if you hate something it is God's will for your life...IMHO that one didn't come from heaven.   That is how GG got people to do what he wanted instead of what their hearts longed for.  Yuk.

So, Arthur, the questions are, in one sense, all the same.  But in another sense, they are all different.  We are not all at the same bend in the road, so our issues differ.

Having said that, I would say that by believing God and obeying Him we place ourselves in the position where we can seek for answers.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

I agree the Bible was not written to us,  but it was written for us, it was preserved for us, in every detail.

I love the old testament, except maybe NUMBERS.
When you read through the Prophets. It is amazing all the little detail, that was preserved.

This is son of so and so, who is son of so and so, and
the God called this prophet during the reign of the king of the northern kingdom, during the reign of the king in the southern kingdom.

No detail was forgotten.

SOME TIMES I ASKED WHY WAS IT SO IMPORTANT FOR GOD TO HAVE HIS AUTHORS  RECORD SOME OF THESE SMALLEST DETAILS.

You are right, every verse is not understandable, especially alone, they must be studies in the contexts of the  verses before and verse behind.
SO many people have taken just one verse and ran with it.

Forget or conveniently forget to include the verse before and behind.

WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY, because I like to read, read, and read. I have not absorbed. to allow it to transform.

I AM TRYING TO , I MEAN TRYING TOO, SLOW DOWN. Take it one verse at a time, let it seeping into my being, absorb into my pours and let God talk to me about what he is saying in this verse.

MAYBE I AM RIGHT AND MAYBE I AM WRONG. DISCUSSION  NEVER HURT.  You never learn unless you ask questions.

HERE A QUESTIONS FOR SOME ONE TO ANSWER:
IS THE BIBLE RELEVANT FOR TODAY, LIKE CERTAIN AREAS RELEVANT FOR TODAY, with the cultural changes, languages, society, laws of the land etc.
JUST A THOUGHT TO DISCUSS.
I HEARD THIS QUESTION BEING ASKED.
and you had to dig deep, you could not answer because it just is.
You had to give reasons.
THIS TYPE OF DISCUSSION IS WELCOME , YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN>>>>>????????

Thank you for your words..

Lenore,

I agree 100% that meditating on passages of scripture will provide us with additional understanding, insight, and applications.

Some of the sections of scripture, like admonitions against evil and for faith, goodness and self-control are directly relevant.  All the moral teachings are directly relevant.

Some sections, especially in the OT, provide us with principles, examples, and lessons.  It is much better to learn about hard lessons from the book than it is to learn about them from bitter experience.  

All of scripture shows forth the glory of God.   THAT is relevant!    :)

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

MAY 24 4:07 EST:

HEBREW 11:22

Why do you think Joseph , gave those instructions to the children of Israel concerning his bones?

May 28: 6:32 Am:
MAY 31ST: 3:13 AM:

QUESTION FOR DISCUSSION: ANY TAKERS????

SUBJECT: CLICKS.

In a church setting, should there be clicks.

Even in the assembly enviroment, there were clicks , little groups of people who stuck together, and it was hard to break into the inner circle.

In a small town like Arnprior, clicks, of  family and friends are common.

SHOULD A CHURCH SETTING BE A PLACE WHERE CLICKS  SHOULD BE ESTABLISHED OR ALLOW TO BE ESTABLISHED AND MAINTAINED.????

MONDAY MAY 31 , 7:35 EST:

QUESTION TO PONDER FOR TO DAY.

IF JESUS WAS KNOCKING AT YOUR DOOR JUST THIS MINUTE:
What would you say to him?

Would you recognize him?

Would you invite him in?

Or would you keep him waiting?


DISCUSSION ON THIS THREAD  BEGINS NOW!!!!

WEDNESDAY JUNE 2: 12:30 AM.

I HAVE A QUESTION, THAT COULD BE HOTTLY DEBATED:

REMEMBER I AM JUST ASKING:
________________________

QUESTION:
    ::)DO PEOPLE IN OTHER FAITHS, WHO REALLY BELIEVE IN THEIR FAITH, AND PRACTICE WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN TAUGHT IN THAT FAITH?
ie. the catholic faith, or the j.w. faith, or even the faith of latter days of Jesus Christ.

BECAUSE THEY BEEN TAUGHT THIS, AND HAVENT BEEN SHOWN DIFFERENTLY. WHO IS TO BLAME FOR THEIR SPIRITUAL CONDITION?

(esp. in the Catholic Faith, which is a Christian based faith), DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE NO BELIEVING CHRISTIAN IN THAT FAITH.???

OR DO YOU BELIEVE THAT  GOD  HAS PUT PRACTICING BELIEVERS INTO THAT FAITH FOR A REASON.???

So let the debate begin.  Who is up at bat first?

What would you like me to do? Wave a red flag !
Say charge!,  Say get ready, get set, Go!
Or Play Ball!

I think denomition names don't matter to God. Whether we are Christian or not is what is. Just about every religion has some gospel truth in it. As far as who's to blame for spiritual conditions, well I hate to say it but in a word them. No matter what we are taught we are responsible ourselves to discern the word of God. Which, I know puts us Assembly followers in as much water as far as condition goes. But salvation is what's the most important. God puts Christians everywhere to be an example right where they are.  To touch some specific person through whatever experience or belief that they are most comfortable with. God is the one who breaks all barriers and He makes them as well. We are to be approachable, not high and mighty. And example not a nussiance. I hope that I don't offend! :)

Ultimately, God judges the heart.  I am not a universalist (believing that God saves everyone).  However, I do believe there will be some surprises on judgement day.

Suppose there is this single woman, barely making it and trying to raise three young kids because the father abandoned the family.  The Mormon church across the street hears of her plight across the street, gives her food, and rebuilds the roof on her house.  The woman is so thankful, she begins attending not knowing that they are any different than any other Christian.

She believes in God and Jesus.  She is told some things about Joseph Smith and Gabriel which she assumes are true.  After all, she doesn't know any better.  She continues on thankful to God for these dear Christians and prays for her children daily.  

The next week, she gets killed in a tragic car accident.  Now, is God going to send her to eternal punishment because she was told some things that happened to be wrong and she assumed they were true?  Or will God look at the faith in her heart that was based upon the best information that she had?

I can't say dogmatically that I know the answer, but I like to believe the latter case is true.  

P.S.:  The above may seem a strange case to you.  However, I have known some Evangelical Catholics and have every reason to believe that they are saved.  

     Oh, I do hope there will be many surprises when we appear before God, and I hope that many of those who expect them the least will experience them the most and rejoice for them.  (Just think:  On that day no one will ask, "Are you rejoicing?") :D :D :D

     But I think the best course of action for any of us is to walk in the Light we see, and to pray for the disposition of those whose status we may doubt.  Speculation is idle-- "What if...?" gets us nowhere.
     In a recent discussion about Christ's redemption of sinners, I was angrily asked, "What about the Turk who dies having never heard of Christ?!!  Are you telling me that he will go to hell for not accepting someone he never heard of?!!"
     I don't take the bait as I did when I was younger.  The issue of the gospel concerns the one who is speaking and the one who is listening.  If the listener is sincere in the question regarding the Turk (or any other question), he or she will listen to the truth of Jesus Christ concerning him or her right now.  If not, then the question is a ruse to get the conversation away from that personal issue.

     But what about the Turk?  Is there an answer?  Well, of course there is!  But that doesn't obligate God to let us all in on it at once.  If I learn of the Turk, I will pray for his redemption, just as I do for the people I read about in the paper, see on TV, or drive past on the street.  If I meet the Turk, I hope to be able to tell him of Jesus in a comprehensible manner.  If God calls me to go to the Turk, I pray I'll have whatever it takes to answer His call.  But nowhere in scripture have I found that I'm responsible to explain the destiny of a fictitious Turk to anyone who asks me...

     (By the way, please don't misunderstand me:  I most definitely do NOT pray for everyone I see or hear about-- I only wish I did.  But I try to remember that the criminal, or the victim, or the passerby may have been brought to my attention for just that purpose...  I don't beat myself up for missing an opportunity-- I just ask the Lord to help me recognize the opportunities when they come along.)

     Now, where was I?  Oh yeah-- I think the best think we can do about all the questions that bombard our minds, our own and those posed by others, is to pray for the Lord's insight as to how they apply to us at the moment.  He does answer such prayers.  His methods may vary from one of us to the next, but He will lead us.  During this lifetime, we are never going to get "ahead of the game," but let's never stop seeking to know and love better the One Who is.

al

 :)JUNE 2 11:25 PM,

HAVE YOU EVER NOTICE THAT THERE ARE NON BELIEVERS, THAT HAVE A BETTER ATTITUDE IN GENEROSITY, THAN  SO CALLED BELIEVERS IN CHRIST.

THE QUESTION FOR DISCUSSION TODAY IS:

WHY DO YOU THINK THIS IS?

if jesus was knocking on my door he'd have to wait behind the jehovah witnesses
d

Why non-be-lie-vers have an easier time:
1.  They don't have to keep up a front.
2.  They don't care if God is disappointed in what they wear or who they are.
3.  They don't have to have a chapter and verse ready to meet every need of all those unsaved people all around them
4.  They aren't busy scraping their sores with broken pottery.
5.  They are not meditating on a bleeding corpse and contemplating their own crucifiction since everyone who comes after him must deny himself and take up his cross and follow him

There lenore, that should give you something to start with.  Sorry I can't keep up with all your emails.  You move too fast for me, girl.  Say hi to the valley
d

     Objection, Your Honor-- Goes to motive.  (Sorry, just some TV legalese I picked up.)  But, really, is it important that we analize the motives of others?  The only real question for each of us regarding generosity is whether we are pleasing Christ by what we are doing and giving.  To know that, we must both ask Him and receive His answer through His Word.  As to what others do and why, ...what is that to thee?  Follow thou me.Jn.21:22

al

     Actually, the Christian is the only one who really doesn't have to feel that maintaining a facade before the world is necessary.  Among the unredeemed, all you normally see is "front."  Consider this "funny" quote of the day:  "It is necessary for me to establish a winner image. Therefore, I have to beat somebody." --Richard M. Nixon  

     Unfortunately, many of the redeemed have not yet learned the freedom of being able to drop their guard compliments of our Good Shepherd, Who guards us against all that we would fear enough to project a front toward.  
     Don't be fooled:  Our assembly history was not the life of "free indeed," but there IS such a life that has been bought & paid for by the blood of Christ.  
     Don't let your past rob you of your future!


     This is part of their "front."  Most folks are too afraid to even consider God, because of the responsibility & obligation that accompanies such an admission.  So they deny His existence, or re-make Him into a benign figure whom they don't have to fear.


     ...and neither do we--  we only thought we did.

                         assembly equals Christianity

                     JESUS CHRIST = CHRISTIANITY


     (See reply to #3, above)  For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith the Lord Jer.30:17  Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 1Pet.2:24


     Neither am I.  Perhaps we were once, and maybe you still are, but if so it's time to stop seeking Him among the dead-- He is not there.  He is risen, and we with Him!  Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord.  According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue 2Pet.1:2-3  For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. 1Pet.2:25

     I have run the risk of your thinking that my post bears out your point#3, above.  But you see, I don't have to share Bible passages:  They are life to me, and it is my privilege to share them.  I don't have to throw them at people (although I clearly remember once thinking/feeling that I did).

     Thanks to Jesus Christ, it isn't all about me any more.  Now it's all about Him.  It always was all about Him, but I didn't always know it.  If you can't relate to what I'm saying here, but have even the slightest inkling there may be some truth to it, ASK HIM.  He won't withhold anything good from you if you seek HIM.

al

Al,
I have come to a conclusion about you: no matter what question one asks, you will always have the same answer.  Does that mean that the needle of your record player is stuck, that you play the same tape all the time in your blaster, that you do not think for yourself?  Just a thought.
d

JUNE 4:11:33 PM EST:

HEBREW 11:32 THE MESSAGE:

I could go on and one. but I've run out of time. There are so many more -
Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel,
the prophets.

Lets review the history of these men.
Gideon tested God in is fleece testing, and we wont mention his family.
Barak - wouldnt go to war unless Debra accompanied him.
Jephthah - gave an oath to God, thus he had to sacrifice his daughter in a way to  honour that oath,
David - between the census, and Bethsheba.
Samuel - his sons were not trustworthy.
Samson - did everything wrong until the end.

There was a quality that God saw in each of these men, to be place in the hall of faith.

THE QUESTION OF THE DAY FOR DISCUSSION IS:
'WHY DO YOU THINK GOD HONOURED THESE MEN'
even with all their failures.
AND HOW CAN WE GLEAN FROM THE EXAMPLES of the lives of these men, to help our faith journey along.

READY, SET, GO .......DISCUSSION TIME STARTS LINE .......BANG.

     Aw, d, I really hope that is only an opinion & not really a conclusion.  A conclusion would mean that you have stopped thinking, & I'd hate to see that happen! :-\

     I think before I answer every time, and I pray too.  The thing is, Christ is the answer-- only the questions keep changing.  What is it about Him that you object to?  I understand your objecting to "religiosity," legalism, performance by rote or rule, etc., but I don't offer those things as answers...  The fact that you're encountering some difficulty in connecting with Him doesn't reflect badly on His end-- He has come all the way down from heaven to meet with you, accepted you as you are, lived for you and died for you.  What more could you ask?


     Every once in awhile we get news that there has been a broken water main or a sewer backup that has contaminated the municipal water supply.  People don't stop drinking water.  They only stop drinking that water!  Other water is still good.
     Somebody polluted our church.  That doesn't make God a criminal.  We abandon the contamination, not the element that bore it.  Not all Christians are evil.  Not all believers are wrong.  And none of us has suffered as Christ suffered for us!


     Find fault with me if you will-- that isn't hard to do.  But if you have a complaint about my answer, which is our Lord Jesus Christ, I am constrained to ask you to specifically name it:  Of what do you accuse Him?


     BTW, I don't have a blaster.  I use a Bible instead, and no matter which of its "stations" I tune in to, the music may vary, but the theme is the same:  Jesus Christ.

God bless,
al

Delila,  I appreciate your Honesty on the subject matter of june 3rd's post. It reminded me of Ps.73 Where David saw the prosperity of the Wicked and he was envious of them. But God had a hold on him and showd them their end . Rememeber the Rich Man and Lazerous I had a friend that said you mean they can see us across the great divide...I also knew an Atheist who would say to me regarding Faith "oh if it makes you feel better in your Heart thats good for you" and he meant it. It boggeled the mind that he did'nt believe anything ...But the Word says not all men have the Faith...And sometimes I can take it for Granted that I can go to God with my requests and recieve His Comfort and Assurance...The World cannot... Yet in the Gospels it says they are Wiser in the ways of Money and things thats all they have. The calling of God is on some of us whether we like it or not...Many called few are Chosen and it can feel like a burden at times. Especially if you have a Prodigal nature.  I think your thoughts on this subject are good ones. Sounds like Love that wont let you Go...Although you've tried to get away...as Jeremiah said His word is shut up in my bones..For the Lord is with me as a dread Champion...I think in Eternity you may appreciate the Great Gift He's Given ...If you Suffer you will Reign....And BYW Al's posts are very encouraging to me I think he's Diplomatic...I think you see him as giving the pat rehearsed Christian responce...I dont ...I like his Style!!!! Summer...

Why did God honor these men? Because they are very different beginnings and ends. Each man have something everyone can identify with. But they all got one thing right. They pretty much ended life with their faith and acts pointing to God. That's what being a Christian is all about. Not that we don't fall, or are perfect. The truth is we are nothing but dust. It's only God who makes the best of our lives.

 :D

JUNE 9TH...11:30 PM.

HELLO GANG: IF MY MARRIAGE WOULD STILL BE ALIVE:
I WOULD OF BEEN 25 YEARS MARRIED TODAY.

I AM READING THE PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE:

CHAPTER THREE HAD A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS:
I WILL BE INTERESTED IN SEEING YOUR REACTIONS:


From the Bible , God will asked us?

1. What did you do with my son Jesus Christ?
 - did you accept what Jesus did for you and did you learn to love and trust him.

2. What did you do with what I gave you?
-what did you do with your life, and the resources God gave you. Did you spend them on yourself, or did you use them for the purposes God made you for?


Pondering Question at the end of the Chapter?
What would my family and friends say is the driving force of my life? What do I want it to be?

This book is easy read, but heavy duty questions to answer!!!!
A lot of soul/spiritual/heart seeking!!!

So who will like to take a gander at voice their thoughts
on this questions?
Your at the starting line! Get Ready!Get Set! and the starting pistol has fire! GO!!!

I am going to be really interest on some of your interaction, reactions, responses, and discussions, It will be a group BB bible christian peer bible study.....

I think it is great to share ideas with each other!What do you think??

Lenore

JUNE 13: HAPPY LORD'S DAY BB GANG.

Today Sunday Message by Pastor B.

was taken from John 7: verses 37-38

On the last day of the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, say>
"If anyone thirsty let him come to Me and drink.
He who believes in me , as the Scripture has said:, "out of his heart will flow rivers of living water".
But this he spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive, for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.



One statement Pastor B. spoke of:

We are in a Gatoraide Culture, with a Sahara Desert Spirit.

meaning, even the churchs are looking for the quick quenching of the thirst, while spirit is dry and parched.

He also said a river is feed by many streams, without streams, river dries up.
We do this by not praying, not fellowshipping with believer, and not reflecting God's word in our spirit.
These are the streams that allow the Spirit to quench our spirit with rivers of living water.

QUESTION OF THE DAY:
------------------------------
-------------------------------

HOW THIRSTY  ARE YOU FOR STREAMS OF LIVING WATER TO FLOW INTO THE RIVER OF SPIRIT, TO QUENCH THE DRYNESS IN OUR WALK WITH JESUS:???

It was a good message, Pastor B. challenged this as well.?


HOW MUCH ARE YOU WILLING TO WORK FOR  TO GET THE QUENCHING OF THE LIVING WATERS OF THE SPIRIT.

because  it does take work to keep those streams running into the river.


SO I AM THROWING THESE QUESTIONS OUT TO YOU.

LENORE

[quote author=LENORE link=board=12;threadid=706;start=0#msg18679 date=1087151055
On the last day of the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, say>
"If anyone thirsty let him come to Me and drink.
He who believes in me , as the Scripture has said:, "out of his heart will flow rivers of living water".
But this he spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive, for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
.

QUESTION OF THE DAY:
------------------------------
-------------------------------

HOW THIRSTY  ARE YOU FOR STREAMS OF LIVING WATER TO FLOW INTO THE RIVER OF SPIRIT, TO QUENCH THE DRYNESS IN OUR WALK WITH JESUS:???

HOW MUCH ARE YOU WILLING TO WORK FOR  TO GET THE QUENCHING OF THE LIVING WATERS OF THE SPIRIT.

because  it does take work to keep those streams running into the river.


SO I AM THROWING THESE QUESTIONS OUT TO YOU.

LENORE

 Hi Lenore!

  Thanks for tossing the questions our way and here comes my response.

   The verse quoted above about thirst is something that I misunderstood for years.  Maybe I still don't have it right, but I see it much differently now.

  In the past I connected my inner thirst as an emotional desire that had to feel the presence of the Spirit in my life.  I would be the last one to suggest that feelings aren't important in our Christian life, but I don't think that's what our Lord was talking about here.

  The passage does talk about "our inner most being" as the place that needs the satisfaction, but an immediate feeling of contentment only deals with my emotions in a very surface way.  In my Eastern Religion days I could gain via meditation a feeling of contentment, but that could abrupty change based on what was going on around me.

  God has put an eternal depth in our souls and when He talks about "inner most being" I don't think that it is an area that we can feel, but that he sees and knows how to fill.  I also think that this void is filled, again even though we don't feel it, when Christ comes to live in our hearts' through new birth.  As Christians I think it is a mistake to try and gain a feeling of complete satisfaction via an experience; that does not mean that we can't have wonderful emotional experiences with God, but that is not what we should base our life with God on.

  As to finding the streams via "working" on different spiritual disciplines, such as Bible reading, prayer, and fellowship: I think that these things may work better for some folks than others.  In other words, I don't think there is any formula for "spiritual success" as such.  There is also a danger of seeing one's Christian life of, "if I can successfully do these spiritual things God will make me feel happy", which is contra the gift based relationship that we have with our Heavenly Father.

  My take on these verses now is that God has completely satisfied my deepest needs, which the verse seems to imply is eternal life.  Whatever my mood, or circumstances, I can believe this fact of my eternal security and as a result find some peace.  I can never in this life experience the depth of what it means that I am saved, but there will be a time when faith will give way to sight and a perfect union of spiritual fact and emotional experience we will enjoy! :)

                                       God Bless,  Mark C.

Hi Lenore!

  I had a big answer to "the question of the day," which I tried to include with your quote and for some reason it failed to post.     Here goes again :(!

  I used to see this verse that you quoted as a need for me to kind of stretch out in my emotions to God and experience a feeling of deep satisfaction.  If I could just concentrate enough, and devote my whole inner being to God He would reach out to me with an experience of His presence.

  The verse says that these rivers are to satisfy our "innermost beings."  I think that these regions within us are beyond our surface emotional state.  Now I would be the last person to say that emotions are not important, but I don't think this is what Jesus is talking about satisfying in these verses.

  My take on these verses now is that in our new birth God completely satisfys all our need: spiritual, emotional, physical.  Jesus states in these verses that the water forms an eternal fount in us.  I believe that this is eternal life; and no matter how we feel God has completely secured us in Jesus work of salvation!

  In our present Christian life we will only experience a very small amount of what that salvation means in our emotional life.  In our bodies we won't experience any of it, as we wait the redemption of our bodies at the ressurection (with the exception of miracles of healing,etc.)

  The "innermost being" is beyond our feeling, but faith in the fact of eternal security will bring a measure of peace to our surface feelings.

  As to methods of accessing "streams" via Bible reading, prayer, etc.: these are of course avenues to realization of the what God has already done in my salvation, but there is a danger here of seeing them as a means to actualize God's presence and the feelings that we hope will come with that.  

  Our relationship with God is a gift based relationship and nothing that I, or anyone else can do, will separate me from the presence of God in my life!  My moods will go up and down, but Jesus does not deal out emotional uplift via the Spirit by my trying to dig channels in my heart, or developing some other methodology for "gaining" God's blessing in my emotional life.  In other words, feeling good does not mean that God is near and blessing me; neither is feeling bad an indication that God has abandoned me, and I need to start to seek God in a more devoted way.

  The fact that we're saved will not solve all our emotional or relational problems, and it is in this area that we may have to work.  God sometimes seems very absent from these areas of our life and it would be nice if He just automatically came to us with a touch and caused all these problems to go away, but it is for our benefit that He does not.  We must be honest, patient, and if we have consistent problems with our emotional life we might need to find some help.  Ignoring these problems and hoping for God to "break into my life" via some kind of experience is a kind of escapism. (believe me I understand this, because this has been a major mistake in my life, and is still a tendency that I have.)

  Though this verse is not talking about experiencing emotional relief, there are verses that do, and these have to do with the kinds of things we are doing on this BB in lending an ear, and trying to lift those who are feeling down.  This is a real gift that God has given His church and though not even rising to a stream of water, it can be a cold cup of same for the thirsty.

                                        God Bless,  Mark C.

 

 :)THANK YOU MARK C.
For your very insightfulness .

PASTOR B. Also said that we must have passion for those STREAMS OF LIVING WATER.

QUESTION ON THIS LINE:

How do we acquire that passion for the STREAMS OF LIVING WATERS.??

Hi Lenore! :)

   Your question was, "How do we acquire that passion for the streams of living water?"

   Since I believe that the John 7 passage that we are discussing is talking about salvation and what happens at the new birth, I don't think that I would have asked this question of Christians that I was addressing.  We don't need passion to receive Christ as our Savior, only faith in The Good News as declared in these verses.  So my answer is you don't need to acquire a passion for the streams of living water that are described there.

  I understand that your pastor means well, and if his intention was to exhort his people to a committed pursuit of Christ there are many passages in the New Test. that would have provided a text for his sermon.  He also could have been just using the phrase, "streams of living water", as a general principle re. gaining refreshment in our lives with God, and that we acquire this by reading the Bible, etc.  Nothing wrong with that, but not a message that I would have brought because I don't see such messages as being what the church really needs to hear today (certainly not the only message, as some churches I've been to.)

  There needs to be a balance in the proclamation of the Bible that helps the believer to understand what our responsibilities are as Christians, what God's part is, and how this relationship with God works.  Not an easy task, but preaching that continually harps on the believers part places burdens on us that we can't fulfill.  

  When I first left the Assembly I attended a church where a very fine dedicated pastor preached a series on, "commitment: the key to intimacy."  He was going through Ephesians and I had an opportunity to talk with him in private and ask him about the messages, and also share with him some of my Assembly past.

   I asked him, "what he meant by intimacy with Christ," and he paused for a moment, and looking a bit perplexed; he finally answered, "I'm not sure how to describe it."  I think he took for granted certain Christian words and phrases and had never thought about how these things actually were defined.  He also looked very puzzled when I tried to explain what the Assembly was like, and why I had a strong reaction to the word, "commitment".  He was a good man, and tried to understand, but I'm afraid I was a different kind of Christian then what he was used to.  


  This pastor's main focus was getting lazy Christians moving!  He felt it was his duty to challenge, stir-up, provoke, inspire, etc.  The great need of the hour that many pastors see is getting Christians into "a deep and meaningful commitment to a walk with God."  Nothing wrong with that; but I think I was the first one to confront him with the idea that there is such a thing as being "totally committed to a walk with God": as in fervent prayer, hours in worship meetings, morning times, seminars, constant Bible study, and evangelism, but still being way off from what God is after in our lives.

  He would have loved it if his people lived lives just like we did in the Assembly; but when I told him about the false teaching and the cult like organization he recognized the group was way off!  Hmmm?  Is commitment the key to intimacy with Christ?  Is all this zeal he wished to see in his church really what God was after?  I hope that I made him think.

  For exassemblyites I believe that the most important issue is not a need to "acquire passion" but to understand how passionate God is about us as His children.  In I JN. we are told that, "we love God because He first loved us.  He finds the burned out and frazzled and promises to fan the smoking flax into a flame of passion again.

  There is a balance, and I'm not saying God doesn't want us to have commitments in our lives, but these are a result of resting in His love, not a means to acquire His blessings.

  This is where we, as exassemblyites, can be a real blessing to the pastors we may encounter in our churches.  We need to support them with our prayers, by spending some time with them, and also sharing our perspective.  Our stories can provide some much needed insight to others, and indeed in this sense we are sent from God to them.

  I will be sharing more of my opinions on what it means to live the Christian life on the Wounded Pilgrims thread in the weeks to come and encourage any and all to chime in with thoughts of your own.  Dialogue is much more instructive than monologue, because it stimulates our thinking.

                                        God Bless,  Mark C.

Lenore,

     I'm glad you asked the question you did here, for us to share in, and I think Mark's answer illustrates that, if you really want to know what your pastor meant in his message, you will have to ask him very specific questions.  As Mark has shown, he may or may not have the answers you need.
     But bring his answers back here & we can look at them further...

     Mark's post is very thorough & well worth holding onto for a reference.  I wish to emphasize a single point from it:


     If we want to know what a speaker meant by the use of a certain word, phrase or argument, we need to ask.  Our asking needs to be thought out, as to exactly what we hope to learn, and our questions need to be framed carefully, to be specific and clear, so as to get us the answers we need and seek.

     Similarly, when a certain word or phrase, such as commitment, intimacy with Christ, streams of living water, deep and meaningful, walk with God, passion, raises an emotional flag within us, we need to formulate very specific questions to ask of God.  We have been mentally programmed to think certain thoughts in response to certain words and phrases-- some right and good, and others not so.

     At 61 years of age, I am still learning the origins and true meanings of terminology I have heard since infancy & used since I could speak.  It is to me a joy to learn at long last what something means which I can remember my parents' using when I was a tyke, but I am also sometimes abashed to find that I have been misquoting or misusing some portion of language for years through sheer ignorance.

     God understands how all these things have come to pass; how one of us can be encouraged, one humbled, another dismayed, and someone else angered or frightened by the hearing of the self-same piece of speech.  But we need to understand that our emotional reaction to what we hear is certainly not the only, and possibly not the correct or complete response.

     Therefore, we must never fear to bring these things before Him, asking to receive whatever clarification, correction, even reprimand He will give us.  It is excellent that we have each other off whom to "bounce" these things, but ultimately each of us answers to God alone, so even the answers we gain from one another must be submitted to our Lord for final approval.

     The method by which the Lord assures each of us is something He tailors to fit our capacity for acceptance.  How I "hear" and learn from God may bear little or no similarity to your experience with Him.  Churches split and denominations have been formed over such disputes, but the only real specifics are that we learn to know Christ within the confines of what is taught in His Word.  This does not require that we understand the Bible as thoroughly as our neighbor, nor does it excuse us from seeking to do so.  But I begin to drift far afield of my subject...

     "Come unto Me..."  

                                  Oh, what peace we often forfeit,
                    Oh, what needless pain we bear,
                                   All because we do not carry
                     Everything to God in prayer.

al

 :):

Thanks for sharing Mark and Al:

I think I better run over to the church and look over my Sunday Service Notes .

It was a good discussion, I appreciate it.


-----------------------------------------------------

In Chapter 5 of the Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren:

LIFE ON EARTH IS A TEST:

This life metaphor is seen in stories throughout the Bible.
God continually tests people's character, faith, obedience, love , integrity, and loyalty. Words like trial, temptation, refining and testing occur more than 200 times in the Bible.
Character is both developed and revealed by tests, and all of life is a test. You are always being tested.
God constantly watches your response to people, problems, success, conflict, illness, disappointments and even the weather. He even watches simple actions, like when you open a door for others, when you pick up a piece of trash, or when you're polite toward a cler or waitress.

A very important test is how you act when you can't feel God's presence in your life.


------------------------------------------------------------------

MY QUESTION OF THE DAY FOR DISCUSSION IS???

1. WHY IS TESTING SO IMPORTANT?

2. DO YOU THINK TESTING IS IMPORTANT?

This is open for discussion!!!!!!!!!!!


CHECK ON THIS LATER.

LENORE

     First, we must understand that God does not test our abilities to see what we are capable of.  He already knows:  We are NOT capable!  "Apart from Me you can do nothing."

     God tests us to remind us that we are helpless and hopeless apart from Him.  The goal of His tests is that, in recognizing our utter neediness, we will turn to Him, call out to Him, and receive of Him the provision to meet our needs.

     God's testings are not opportunities for us to show off how "saintly" we have become, how wise in spiritual ways, how Christlike in following Him...  Rather, they are to showcase the greatness of His redemption of us; His love, compassion, mercy, patience, and goodness toward us demonstrated in His willingness and ability to do for us what we must have done, but cannot do for ourselves.

     Hallelujah!  What a Savior!

 :D:
JULY 9TH 12:10 AM:

PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE BOOK BY Rick Warren:

Chapter 6:
LIFE IS A TEMPORARY ASSIGNMENT:

Verse: Psalm 39:4:
LORD, remind me how brief my time on earth will be.
Remind me tht my days are numbered, and that my life is fleeing away.


''''To make the best use of your life, you must never forget two truths.:
First: compare with eternity, life is extremely brief.
Second: earth is only a temporary residence.

As God to help you see life on earth as he see it.

""we are to be God's ambassadors""

Imagine if you were asked by your country to be an ambassador to an enemy nation. You would probably have to learn a new language and adapt to some customs and cultural differences in order to be polite and to accomplish your mission.  As an ambassador you would not be able to isolate yourself from the enemy . To fulfill your mission, you would have to have contact and relate to them.
But suppose you become so comfortable with this foreign country that you fell in love with it, preferring it to your homeland. Your loyalty and committment would change. Your role as an ambassador would be compromised. Instead of representing your home country, you would start acting like the enemy. You'd be a traitor.

Sadly , many Christians have betrayed their King and his kingdom. They have foolishly concluded that because they live on earth, it's their home. It is not."""


The QUESTION at the end of this chapter :

How should the fact that life on earth is just a temporary assignment change the way I am living right now?

 ::) ??? :D: July 14: 12:20 am:

I have a question maybe someone can answer it, if not, at least a discussion can be pursued.

How can someone claim to be a Christian, then say that they are not a Christian any longer?

I can understand walk you own way for awhile, but not rejection Christianity, just be a prodigal for a while., taking time to evaluate , learn, grow and heal.

But some saying one year I AM A CHRISTIAN, and the next SAYING I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN ANYMORE.

This doesnt make any sense.
Unless they were just a Christian in name only, like a particular religion that you were raised in.

How can a true follower of Christ , thoroughly reject, the existence of Christ?

Lenore,

     This topic has been addressed recently on the "Let's take the gloves off" thread (any and all topics).  In part, the discussion includes:


     Check it out at:  http://www.assemblyboard.com/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=724;start=0 (http://www.assemblyboard.com/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=724;start=0)

God bless,
al

Most Christians I have heard over the years will explain our security in one of the following ways:

1.  Security of the believer - they teach that once saved, always saved.  These folks believe that being born again is a result of our receiving Christ.  They emphasize that once we receive Christ, God is faithful and will never let us go.

2.  Perseverance of the Saints - they teach that if one is saved, one will persevere until the end.  These folks believe that being born again is a sovereign act of God that preceeds our receiving Christ.  They emphasize that if God has saved us, there is no way that we can wander off.

3.  No security – A few denominations believe that one may be a saved Christian by receiving Christ and then later decide to turn away and no longer be saved.  This is rather rare and is rather difficult to support without skipping many passages in the New Testament.

The reality is that some folks do flip out and deny Christ after years of identifying themselves as a Christian.  This is generally explained in one of the following ways:

a)  When they said they were Christians, it was a mere profession.  There was not true faith (or, put another way, God never really saved them).  Everyone I knew in #2 above argued this.

b)  They may be still saved, but walking as a carnal Christian.  If they make their way back, then they were truly saved.  If not, they were mere professors.

c)  A few in #1 camp believe that if they made a public profession of faith and received Christ, they are still (and always will be) saved in spite of the behavior.

d)  A few believe #3 above.

Al, when George peed in the water he made us swallow telling us it was God's will/well, he started a domino kind of motion.  You'd question everything he said, wouldn't you?  He claimed to stand on the rock and called everything else quicksand.  I say, let's question the book he called the rock 'cause somethin' smells fishy ta me
d

Delila

When I got saved I knew my life was a mess and needed something different. I had a religious upbringing so I believed that there was a God and had heard of but not seen His goodness demonstrated by those who claimed to know Him.

When I received Christ it was He who revealed Himself to me and showed me that He was for me. Unfortunately the people who told me about Him I thought knew Him well and I believed their interpretation of Him from the Bible. They said if it is not in the Bible don't believe it and we can show you anything we do here is from the Bible. Well I wanted to know how to be smart like them and I learned how to PROPERLY interpret the Bible like they did. I became a smarty pants like they were who always knew what the other persons problem was and could solve it by a quick verse or two or a heavy exhortation. I am sad that I did not become more like Christ but more like a Pharisee like they were.

Now I know only this for sure. Jesus loves me this I know for the bible tells me so. I also experience pain and joy and laughter and sorrow and hope and despair and still I know that Jesus loves me. I don't ever want to brow beat anyone again like I was brow beaten and unfortunately did so in the past. The one who knows it all in the Assembly is probably the farthest from God and needs to repent the most.

Delila for what it is worth. My prayers go out to you and others here who have suffered like Christ at the hands of your friends. It is terrible that GG and those still in have not got the courage to admit they were wrong. Humility is something that glorified Christ and when his people exhibit that kind of life they truly are putting on Christ. To stand on  the bible and dictate to others is not Christlike but arrogance in the supreme. I believe the Bible is true because Jesus demonstrates its truths through others in practical ways. The Assembly talked a great talk but did not walk the walk. It was all rules to subject people under their authority and it was not Christ's headship. The Lord's holy name is blasphemed among the heathens because of hypocrisy such as was practiced in the Assembly and you my friend are a victim of its stern and uncaring teachers.

God will show you. Don't worry if you are looking for Him He already is willing. The hurt and pain of hearing GG's booming voice often keeps me from spending a long time in the Word. I hear his twisted take and I am SICK TO DEATH by it.

It is not God's fault such bad examples exist in His Church. He says let the wheat and the tares grow together and remove the tares at the end. They think they are doing God's will but look at the fruit. Wasted, ruined and corrupted lives that is not Christ.


Hugh

d,

   I really can't argue with any of that...  Remember I've been out since 1980, but only out-from-under for a couple of years.  So I've had my time to question things & to figure things out.  Of course, I didn't have a community like this BB to help me-- Cathy & I felt pretty much on our own.

   My point is that I, too, questioned everything that related in any way to the assembly.  My questioning took a different route because when I left I still thought that the assembly was "right" & it was I who was wrong, but the truth of that situation eventually shined through.  I didn't suffer the overwhelming bitterness that many of the more recent emigres have felt, because my experience has been more gradual, less sudden than theirs, but that hasn't made it easier or "better."

   I have had to analyze the "fishy smell" you speak of, & I have found it to be emanating not from the Book, but from the false preacher; not from the Message but from the unfaithful messenger; not from the Good Shepherd, but from the wicked hireling.  The bathwater had to go; the Baby stays.  It was only by questioning everything that I was able to make such determination.  Sometimes I questioned God.  Sometimes I ignored Him completely.  Thank God He didn't ignore me, but helped me to answer the questions & arrive at sound decisions-- practical ends that work.

   It is very difficult to be openminded when you realize that your openmindedness was what enabled your deception in the first place.  I tried very hard to figure it out.  I realize now that I never would have/could have succeeded on my own.  It was only His faithfulness to Himself, to His promises, that got me beyond my own unfaithfulness.  By grace are we saved...

al

I agree with Al on this for sure. An analogy(a poor one I know) is if you went to a Ford Dealership(or any dealership for that matter) and a salesman tricked you into buying a car he knew was a lemon. You would be prone to say "All Ford's are lemons and the Ford Motor company cannot be trusted".  But the truth is that the salesman cannot be trusted, not the Ford Motor Company.

The problem with the Assembly, and the experiences we all had there were not with the Bible, but with George and the leadership underneath him. The problem was with HIS interpretation of the Bible, not with the Bible itself. Because we were dealt a "sour" deal doesn't make the Bible or Christianity a lemon.

--Joe

Joe:
lemons are good.
lemons smell good.  If your kitchen doesn't, cut into a lemon and press half all over the counter and let it sit a while, soak in, smell up the place.  I like lemons.  My son likes to eat them too, straight up, no sugar or salt, just sucks on it smiling.

Yes, I think fondly of lemons.  If life gives you them, well, you've got her made in the shade don't cha?

Perhaps to compare George's teaching with the lemon is not meet.  Perhaps we'd do better with kitchen garbage.  Sometimes I've pictured him pelted with it.  Not often though, so one couldn't call me totally bitter.  But we should talk further about this kitchen trash/George comparison since I think that yes, since we ate what he fed and he claimed to be feeding from the well, well, well, it might just be that well was/is contaminated with sewage water.  It does not follow for certain that it is, but it may be.  And I for one, am checkin' it out further and finding/believing the water is so putrid you can't even water a lemon tree with it.
d

Hi Al,
That's an interesting point about open-mindedness. It never occured to me but looking back, I was very open-minded to what "the saints" said about the Bible Studies back them. One of my friends back then, who was the English pastor at the Japanese church I went to at the time, didn't trust what the Assembly was about and he was spooked about that the group also had no name. I also assimilated some of their anti-church (institutional) attitude very quickly and that concerned him as well. We had an argument and I soon mellowed out on that attitude even though I didn't leave the fellowship right away. All I remembered thinking at the time was, "Friend, please be open-minded about this."

I do think other factors, such as being a non-conformist or simply being against "organized" religion," were other factors involved. Ironically, once non-conformists were in, they soon succumbed to the cookie cutter.

Shin,  In retrospect, that period of my life in which I prided myself in being nonconformist was largely spent conforming to one style or another of nonconformity.  When I got to the assembly phase of my life, I think I was already "cookie-cut" & half-baked.  GG just had to finish me & add some icing...

al

It's funny how various non-conformist movements required some kind of conformity - hippies, punk rock post-Sex Pistols, and goth.

However, I think there were a lot of people who joined because they either did not fit in with their church or did not like the patterns set forth by their church even if they had no doctrinal problems with it. I think the Assembly sounded very unconventional and radical, not dealing with the trappings of an institution, which can appeal to someone who is on the unconventional side. The Assembly, once somone was entrenched, was soon revealed to have conventions of its own and was just as organized, if not more, than any "organized" religion.

Feel free to whack me on the head with a ruler if I'm not making sense.  ;D

Delila---

Guess you missed the analogy.  A car that is a "lemon" is definitely NOT a good thing. But whether George's teaching was garbage or lemon juice, the point I was trying to make is that the problem was/is George, not the Bible or Christianity.

--Joe

no Joe, I didn't miss your point.  I suspect the source of G's teaching (the bible), I suspect anyone who says: God's will is... do it.  I suspect the bible itself is not the 'word or God', the be all, the end all of what God (if he exists) has to say.
And I give my head a shake that anyone having been through assembly experience does not look more critically at the basic assumptions that protect the patriarchy (which again, I do not consider healthy).
d

AUGUST 6: AT 7:29 PM EST:

HELLO D.

You are hurting. I can understand that I share that pain.
You are down on men. I can understand that I have experience that type of pain, anger, and mis trust.
You are questioning the existence of God, the Bible, etc. I can understand that, I have done some prodigal time myself.
It is good to question. Even Job and Solomon questioned God.
God expects this as well. In time he will give you the answers you are searching for. I am still waiting on some answers my self.  I tease people, I have a list of questions for him when I get to heaven. But like Job, God will probably give me the same answer he gave Job.

Dont throw out the baby with the bath water.

Remember the culture and times when the BIBLE were written. It was written by men, inspired by God, who is a male figure. We couldnt call him Daddy if he wasnt a Guy could we.

Your Bible teaching experience and maybe your upbringing with Fathers was a strict disciplinary, no mercy type role model.
Yet get into a Women Bible study group. Explore the love that Jesus had for women.

In a culture were women didnt have any status, could be divorced at a drop of hat, yet were in bondage into a marriage if they were being abused, etc.
There are still many cultures that have this type of bible times issues even today.

We are western women, who have been brought up to be independent, educationed, career oriented, supermom, super women, do it all. Which is alot of barn yard fertilizer in my way of thinking.  
Remember in the last century, western women have been given the right to vote, right to be elected to government, right  for equal pay. etc.

So we naturally want equal representation in the Bible. I have question, the issue of Paul, were women are to be quiet , and not teach men.
Well may be I am have more knowledge than some of the men in a discussion group.
Women who have been given the door of knowledge should not be expected to be quiet, but to share and learn along side.

D. I know. I been there, I am not trying to brush aside your hurt. Only to let you know. I have been there too.

Your right in one way, but remember Jesus compassion, passion, and feelings for women he met on his ministry. It is so much different that what was taught in GG enviroment. But if you can embrace Luke and really seek out Jesus with the women he came across. You will see he is a loving Husband, Brother, Friend, and Saviour. God is a Loving Daddy, who you can crawl up upon his knee , he would put his arms around you, hug you, you can cry into his chest, pour out all that hurt inside. I have done it on several time, I know I can approach the Throne of God, because he is not just my Father. He is my Daddy. A daddy I have never really had or could approach in this fashion. It is something I had to learn that I can approach him like a child. A child that only a Daddy can fix a hurt. I didnt have a Daddy like that.

Think about it D. okay. He isnt just a mean old cranky judge that is going to throw you in to the pit because of a human mistake.  He wants to fix it like a Daddy.

Love you D.

Lenore

Dear Lenore,
The image of a kind Daddy is not something I buy, sorry, it makes as much sense to me as Santa Clause though both are longed for by every little girl and taught by our systems of commerce and TV commercials.  And sadly, Christianity is the same pile to me, or should I say box.  It's like a grab bag thing, a closed, sealed bag that has a dollar amount on it (and it ain't free, those of us who paid know it COSTS) and once you buy it, then you can open it and find out what you bought.  AFter that, you're stuck with it, you can give it away but you don't get your money back.  Only grab bags make no promises, do they?  Grab bags don't promise a ticket to somewhere, a shelter in the arms of the almighty, peace and rest, joy and God's other blessings.  Grab bags don't tell you what to believe, where to sleep and with whom not to 'sleep', grab bags don't condemn either, don't judge, don't say: This is the way, walk ye in it.  But if you walk away from God disappointed, then what?  YOu didn't believe hard enough.  YOu didn't trust the Lord, you called God a liar, you played harlot.  And then where are you?  Repent, right?  And then find the trough just as empty as it was before.  But go away, invest in yourself, lay down on a blanket underneath a blue sky and listen to the birds, take pictures of wild flowers, play with your children, forget the demands of the almighty and life makes sense.  There is peace.  There is joy, moments of absolute clarity, there is healing.  Apart from the bible, apart from the prayers even.  Apart from the eternal bowing and numb knees and nites of prayer and confession of that all abounding sin, apart from all of that, there is freedom too.  And no God saying: Because I said so, and no hyperlinks to attach to prove my point either.  And rather than showing (vainly trying anyway) those who still trust the bible despite the fact that the assembly was a sham, that the society we live in is set up to support the sham that the assembly was, complete with its abuses of power and reliance on the bible to justify its ends and its means, apart from all of that, there are greater truths that we blind ourselves to if we march on simply with 'reformed' views about Christianity.  That is a bloody long sentence!  And I'm not sure that, no, I know that I'm not being clear.  But here's a new question:

What are the most dangerous: Cracks in our Western Culture that may spell the end of civilization as we know it?  
I'll venture one:  our health care system with its reliance on drugs and invasive therapies rather than efforts to educate its citizens in healthy living.
d

 :DGood Evening D.

Quote from Delila
""""""
And sadly, Christianity is the same pile to me, or should I say box.  It's like a grab bag thing, a closed, sealed bag that has a dollar amount on it (and it ain't free, those of us who paid know it COSTS) and once you buy it, then you can open it and find out what you bought.  AFter that, you're stuck with it, you can give it away but you don't get your money back.  Only grab bags make no promises, do they?  Grab bags don't promise a ticket to somewhere, a shelter in the arms of the almighty, peace and rest, joy and God's other blessings"""""
 :)
Christianity is free. Accepting Jesus as our Saviour is free.
It is the Christian walk that where we put legs on our faith.


"""""
Grab bags don't tell you what to believe, where to sleep and with whom not to 'sleep', grab bags don't condemn either, don't judge, don't say: This is the way, walk ye in it.  But if you walk away from God disappointed, then what?  YOu didn't believe hard enough.  YOu didn't trust the Lord, you called God a liar, you played harlot.  And then where are you?  Repent, right?  And then find the trough just as empty as it was before.""""""""""""""'


D. I am at a lost for words.  I am trying to find some way to say I understand, in a way that will not offend you.
You dont have to do all the above. You know that. That is putting yourself under the law.
God doesnt want you under the bondage of the law.

God doesnt really condemn us either, he is saddened, disappointed, and yes discipline us. But Jesus is advocating for us at the right hand of the Father, Holy spirit is guiding us.
and teaching us what pleases the Father.
If we take one day or ten years to allow God to mold us in the way he wants us, then God is a patient God to wait for us to say , okay, God I cannot do it alone.


""""""""""""
But go away, invest in yourself, lay down on a blanket underneath a blue sky and listen to the birds, take pictures of wild flowers, play with your children, forget the demands of the almighty and life makes sense.  There is peace.  There is joy, moments of absolute clarity, there is healing.  Apart from the bible, apart from the prayers even.  Apart from the eternal bowing and numb knees and nites of prayer and confession of that all abounding sin, apart from all of that, there is freedom too.  And no God saying: Because I said so, and no hyperlinks to attach to prove my point either.  And rather than showing (vainly trying anyway) those who still trust the bible despite the fact that the assembly was a sham, that the society we live in is set up to support the sham that the assembly was, complete with its abuses of power and reliance on the bible to justify its ends and its means, apart from all of that, there are greater truths that we blind ourselves to if we march on simply with 'reformed' views about Christianity""""""""""""""'

 :)D. we can praise God with his creation. He create us ,He created Creation. So he wants us to enjoy creation. find the beauty of the sky, of children, of flowers and meadows, of the stars in the sky.  We can praise and worship God when we are in His midst among his creation.
You right. We can enjoy God in all of these.

God has given us his beauty to surround ourselves in them, to hide ourselves in them, to mediate with in them, to find solitude  with in them. Of course to spiritually heal with in the beauty of God creation.  THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS.

It would surprise you, I havent prayed on my knees in years, I cant, I would never get up if I did.  The best time in prayers I have with God, is in the bath tub. That is my best time.

I read my Bible and all my devotional books, I use to read them in bed. I would be a night owl, read and read and read.
Now I read the books while sitting on the couch.
God doesnt care where you read your bible, where you have your devotion, how you have your devotion.

God just want communication with us. By putting ourselves under the bondage of the law of a man, of where, when, how and what to do to have our own private time of worship with our Saviour. That is not a willing participation, it is a chore, that can make us resentful.  God want a willing partner in our love for him. Nothing more, and nothing less. Just our love for him.
God will honour you in what ever type of communication you have with him.

D. you are making perfect sense to me. Because I have been there.

Take your time to heal okay.  God is willing to share your pain.
I still believe Love of God, can put him in a Daddy figure.
Because I believe in that type of Love, I have peace with my relationship with my heavenly Father.
My relationship is still a two step forward and one step back type of a waltz. And there are still rooms where I refuse to let God into. But I know he is waiting for me.
He is not rushing me. THe decision I make whether Christian or not, it is between me and Jesus. He will tell me the right way to go.
D. Maybe you need to stop listening to the external advises of GG ministry. Let Jesus guide you only. Jesus way is alot easier to swallow.

D. Just keep hanging on to one thought. JESUS LOVES YOU NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY, NO MATTER HOW YOU FEEL, NOT MATTER WHAT YOU DO. JESUS WILL LOVE YOU.

love ya.
Lenore

 :D

DOES ANY ONE KNOW WHAT A 'SEA SQUIRT ' IS?
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY EAT AFTER THEY IMPLANT THEMSELVES ON TO CORAL?


I learned this little bit of ocean life cycle during the Sunday Evening Service , last week.

So I will check in a couple of days to see if any of you
have the correct answers.......


You will be amazed.

their brains!
Is there a moral lesson in this for us?  ;D ;D

When we become too comfortable, we stagnate and stop using our brains?

When we find a place we like, we stop becoming functional and just eat and sleep?

When we find peace and are one with God we don't need our brains?

Just trying to figure out how the pastor used this in his sermon.  ;D ;D Am I on the right track?

Hi Lenore,

I really am interested in how your pastor fit the sea squirt lesson into his sermon.

I had a biology class a few years ago and it was interesting to see the spiritual priniples behind so many of the things that we learned. Everything is from the Master Creator's hand and it is amazing.

 :)Pastor  B spoke on the sea squirt again tonight.
It was on evening service Sept. 19th.
The title of the Evening Service was called
WHAT IS EATING YOU.

After the sea squirt attaches itself to coral, it eats its brain.
It remains on that coral.
Since most of us in the congregation didnt know what a sea squirt was, we were surprised at the quirks of nature.

It is an eliminate of surprise in our lives, that God nature of great truths.
Blessing of life is surprise. Add riches to Life. We werent expecting surprises. Even though there are bad surprises.

The sea squirt gives up the possibility of surprise. It gives up its vitality.

Christians can be like the sea squirt, stays in one place. So entrench . Given up our vitality.

Jesus can look at us human that he saved, then wonder about the strange creature that gets stuck in one place.
We must be able to obtain the vitality of surprise.

Example: the story of the Samaritan Woman, was surprises when Jesus talked to her. A Jewish man talking to her.
Jesus conversation with her , surprised her so much that she became excited  and shared  it  with all the town's people.
It was a wonderful experience for her.
One of the surprises is that Jesus confirms to her that that he is the Christ. John 4:26

Our encounter with Jesus
Life can be full of surprises.
Reality of the Christian Life should be for the innocents, with the element of surprise, to remind us of the newness, the wonder of new life in Christ.

Nicodemus: The surprise of the revelation that you must be born again message, to a season teacher of the law.

Zaccheus: Surprised that Jesus stopped at his tree.
Surprised that Jesus asked to go to his house for tea.

Element of wonder we need to keep  

John 4:27: Jesus ministry to the woman , was the way it happened. It was a surprise to the woman for this man to ask for a drink of water.
She responded to Jesus as He ministered to him.

Surprises is the truth of the Christian life.

We have no way to know how the Spirit of God will work in our lifes.
We can reevaluate the true nature of the calling being lead by the Spirit.

Elements of Surprise: Who we are able to minister to and when.

The water conversation of Jesus to the woman.
our example to make ourselves available and aware that we are ministers of the gospel.

John 4:31-34  Why are we able to minister.
Do not despise the elements of surprise.

Jesus food was to do the will of his father. It gave him energy and power , what he needed for ministry. God will is vital in ministry. We need to know God will for us. We need to renew our minds by knowing God's will , knowing God is leading. To minister knowing it is God's will.

We get into trouble when we dont go in God's Will.
God's will is why we are able to minister. Outside of God's will, we cannot accomplish anything.

When we are able to Minister. John  4: 35-38
Dont do it alone. We dont know when we will be in a wonderful situation to minister others to the Lord.

What is Eating You?

Spiritual Decay

Insachable Desire to do God's WIll.

 Sea Squirt is an example of Spiritual Decay. We lose our vitality, our mobility, our usefulness to God.

 :DOctober 7th 12:26 am

Having complete the third ALPHA session on
CHALLENGING LIFESTYLE

On the Beautitudes (Beautiful Attitudes)

I thought I would share the questions that were discussion in my discussion group that I am co facilatating with Pastor B.

Passage: Matthew 5:17-20

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets: I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
I tell you the truth,
until heaven and earth disappear; not the smallest letter,
not the least stroke of pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commandments will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

THE QUESTIONS:
1. Why do many people feel that the Old Testament is all the time "before God became a Christian"?

2. Do you tend to treat the New Testament as more important than the Old?
Do you think this matters?

3. ---

4. In what way is Jesus's fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies more than just doing what they predicted?

5. How does Jesus "reveal the full depth" of the meaning of Old Testament law?

6. Can you identify the three ways in which Jesus fulfilled Old Testament law? How do these apply to you?


Some of these I realize you may need to hear the  study series.
Other Passages mentioned.
-John 10:35/Matt.19:4-5/Matt.1:1-17/John 5:39-40/
Matt 1:22;2:5-6,17,23; 4:14-16/
Luke 24:27/Exodus 20/Deut 6:24/ Lev.19:2/
Matt.22:37-40/Rom.3:21-26/Rom 8:1-2/

 :DGood Afternoon Everyone on this October 15th day at 1:31 pm Arnprior Time, This is a beautiful afternoon with the sun shining. The trees are beautiful display of the God's handiwork of red, gold and orange. The red leaves are so vibrant that you, you hope that this type of display and weather will stay for a very long time. God has given us a beautiful autumn. I have never seen a more beautiful and warm fall that we are having right now.


I tried my questions on another thread so I am trying it again on this thread.

What is your view point on HALLOWEEN/ALL SAINTS DAY.?

What was some of your favourite memories of childhood if you went trick or treating.?

I know the negative spiritual placement on Halloween. But for my kids it was just a night to go get CANDY.

Where I live I could get about 200 kids at the door all looking for one thing. It is a day to dress up and get CANDY.

Does any of your church, offer substititue for Halloween.
Do they have costume parties minus certain themes of costumes.

I WOULD THINK THE TOPIC OF HALLOWEEN WOULD BE GENERATING A GREAT DEAL OF DISCUSSION. A little friendly discussion on a topic never hurts anyone. RIGHT?

I remember when I was about 10 years old. I lived in a small , real small village. Named Sand Point. During that time, the population grew in the summer time, because it was mostly cottage area.
There were some permanent residents on the main road.
On this Halloween I remember going out trick or treating among the neighbours. I was wearing one of my Dad work pants and shirt, and an old straw hat.  We were walking to the nearest neighbour the Blackburns. I remember the snow drifts  coming up the fence, the ditched looked like a wall of snow. It was a cold night too.Your winter outwear being under your costume.  SandPoint is a mile long from one end of the village to the other. And the house were are all one one side of the road. The train tracks were on the other. The cottages were below the t rain tracks near the water.
I remember carrying a pillow case .
Then we will get into the car and head for Braeside to see the relatives , so the grandparents can see the costumes.
I remember the home made jaw breaker brown sugar fudge my Grandmother M. would make. And the apples, candy apples.
There was very little store bought candy.  It was mostly homemade.
Or peanuts still in the shell.  Candykisses that was soft or really hard to chew .
Even though the childhood excitement of going out to get the CANDY, it is a shame that the homemade stuff that we use to be able to get , cannot be given anymore, because of the danger some two legged nut gets a kick out of harming people.
It is childhood memories like that, that keeps us young at times.

The last couple of years I have not given out candy. I have just shut my lights off. I was lucky I was working last year.
This year is the church service in the evening.
Now I make the homemade brown sugar fudge. It can be for anytime of the year. I use to make it for my Father for Christmas, now that he is diabetic. Candy is the last thing we adults need.
Home made Candy is still better tasting than the store bought stuff.

I have gotten off topic.
HALLOWEEN!!!!!!!!!!

When my oldest was in Kindergarten (and I was fresh out of the Assembly), I walked him up to Fern Drive school which is just behind where Cornerstone Academy was meeting.  At that time, I still at that time bought into the Assembly and Evangelical idea that Halloween is a satanic holiday so we should not have anything to do with it.

I remember sitting on the little bench outside the classroom and a little girl dressed as a princess sat down on the same bench.  I looked over at her costume and thought, "what is this force of evil that I am supposed to be taking a holy stand against?"

After that, I pretty much lightened up and my kids has done the Trick Or Treat thing without any incident.

I do love this time of year.  Now that I live in an area with real seasons (unlike California warm and hot with a tad bit of rain) people flock to this area to see the beautiful leaves that are at its peak right about now.    Scary things don't do much for me, but I do enjoy the crisp, cool air of the fall season.

Growing up, I remember many times going trick-or-treating with my friends, going to the house where they always did something wierd (stick their hand out of the mail box, give a foil-wrapped carrots instead of candy, etc.)  One year, a car came by and all my friends hid for cover.  I didn't know why until the egg hit me.

What do folks think of the "scare evangelism" techniques some churches use today?

On Halloween I am usually moved to do some really evil stuff. I turn on the television(I can hear the gasps) and watch Andy Griffith. Then we play cards(please forgive me), and  afterwards we dance to '50's rock music(I know, that's really crossing the line). Then I might dress up like Herman Munster(the satanic overtones are overwhelming I know) and hand out candies to the little kiddies who come up and say "Twick or tweet!! hee hee!!"
dressed up like the Little Mermaid or Dracula( It's unbelievable a parent would allow this--the kid will wind up drinking blood one day for sure!!). Then after that the mother's will say "Don't forget to say Thank You!!"
in their Halloween ritualistic manner.  And the little pagans will shout "Thank you mistewr!!!!" in their baby talk ghoulish manner. Then they'll run off giggling to the next house and perform the same ritual. It's all so horrifying it makes my blood run cold.

--Joe

Hilarious!!

Marcia :)

 :)HAPPY LORD'S DAY NOVEMBER 21ST AT 10:42 PM ARNPRIOR.


QUESTION FOR DISCUSSION:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


IF JESUS WAS ROAMING THE EARTH TODAY, WHAT AREAS, AND TYPES OF PEOPLE WOULD HE REACH OUT TO.????????????????

Hi Lenore!  :)

   Day late on the "question of the day", but it was such a good one it required some thought.

   What areas would Jesus visit?

   It's diffiuclt for me to think of Jesus returning to our world again as a child and living his life among us, pre Calvary, because his next return to us will be as a triumphant King!

 If He were here again he would pick children up in his arms and bless them, he would attack religious hypocrisy with particular vehemence, he would find the one lost sheep and bring him home, he would be merciful to the sinful, use tough love to convince us of our sinful condition, and generally all the things we read about him doing when he first came.

  The one thing that he did that was the most important of all, and that is far greater than any of the things we read about during his earthly life, was his love at the cross for us.

  This he does not have to do again; and so this really makes the question of the day not what he would do if walked again as man on earth, rather is His Spirit living His life in me as I live my life in Christ and what does that mean?

  Jesus in me is possible because of the Cross of Jesus.  To me this means humility and honesty regarding my own corruption and a great hope in the redemptive power of God's grace!  This springs up in us and spreads wherever we go, and so Jesus can be all over the World now through us.

 That message of Good News will be received by those thirsty and hungry in this life, and this means the poor of spirit.

                                             God Bless,  Mark C.

 :)Lord's Day December 12 at 10:31 pm Arnprior:


Evening Service sermon was on Nehemiah, which has been a series for a number of weeks now.

An interesting thought came  out from that.

We are the only one who causes us to grow in the Lord!



ANY IDEAS ON THIS STATEMENT........????????

 ;)January 7th at 8:42 pm

Creating a Winter Contest about the Journey of Paul for my Sunday School.  I created a Quizz. Am sharing with you.   See how you do on it okay!!!!!!!!
======================================
JOURNEY OF PAUL - The Christian Gospel Trail

Multiple Choices:

1. Where was Paul born?
a. Rome
b. Cyprus
c. Tarsus

2. Paul's famous teacher was?
a. Luke
b. Gamaliel
c. Moses

3. What is a Hellenist?
a. Greek-speaking Jew
b. Some who like to raise a ruckus
c. A very hot vacation resort

4. When did Paul first appearance in the Bible?
a. When he was bitten by the snake
b. Sitting in front of his tent
c. Watching Stephen being stoned to death

5. Where was Paul blinded?
a. Jerusalem
b. On the ship going to Rome
c. On the road going to Damascus

6. Why was Paul going to Damascus?
a. to buy some tent material
b. to persecute Christians
c. to visit family

7. Paul was an apostle because?
a. he was one of Jesus disciples
b. he was present when Jesus was crucified
c. he saw Jesus

8. What place did Paul first preached in?
a. Jerusalem
b. Antioch
c. Damascus

9. How did Paul escape from Damascus?
a. Ran out the door
b. Rode on a donkey
c. Lower from the wall in a basket

10. What vision from the Lord gave to Paul?
a. He was to go to Ninveh
b. He was to go see Cornelius
c. He was to preach to the Gentiles

11. Who was Paul's first missionary travelling companion?
a. Peter
b. Barnabas
c. John

12. Where was first time Christians was mentioned?
a. Jerusalem
b. Rome
c. Antioch

13. Why did Barnabas and Paul went their separate ways?
a. Disagreed over taking John Mark
b. Disagreed over taking Silas
c. Disagreed over taking Peter

14. What future pastor became like a son to Paul?
a. Timothy
b. Lydia
c. Philip

15. Where from did Paul write some of his letters?
a. aboard a ship
b. in prison
c. standing in front of Festus

16. What was Paul's background?
a. Hellenist, tribe of Benjamin, Pharisee, Roman citizen, tentmaker
b. Son of a Pharisee, Hebrew, tribe of Benjamin, fisherman
c. Egyptian, Arabic speaking, a Levi, shepherd

17. What was the last known address of Paul?
a. Jerusalem
b. Tarsus
c. Rome

18. How many mission trips did Paul travel?
a. 10
b. 4
c. 3


19. What happened after Paul and Silas was freed from Jail by the earthquake?
a. Ran for their lives
b. Witness and baptized the jailer and jailer's family
c.  Took the jailer hostage

20. What was Eutychus doing when he fell from the window?
a. listen so intently to Paul's preaching
b. he was drunk
c. he was in a deep sleep

21. How did Paul ended up on the island of Malta?
a. he walked there
b. one of his missionary journey stops
c. shipwrecked on his way to Rome

22. What bit Paul as he laid sticks on the fire?
a. insect
b. dog
c. viper

23. Why was Paul sent to Caesarea from Jerusalem?
a. they had better jails there
b. he got a quicker trial date
c. forty plus Jews conspired to kill Paul

24. Why was Paul sent to Rome for trial?
a. he would get an easier sentence
b. because he was a Roman Citizen
c. better food

25. Who guide Paul on his journey every step of the way?
a. Barnabas
b. Peter
c. God

 :DJANUARY 30TH  ' HAPPY LORD'S DAY TO ALL'

I have a question for you that I hope will generate some thought and sharing.

IF YOU WERE TO GO BACK IN TIME.
As a reporter interviewing one of the heros of the Bible.

WHO WOULD BE YOUR HERO?
WHY?
WHAT WOULD YOU ASK HIM?

Another angle in this.

IF YOU WERE TO GO BACK IN TIME TO BE AN APPRENTICE TO ONE OF THE PEOPLE OF THE BIBLE?

WHO WOULD IT BE? AND WHY?
WHAT DO YOU HOPE YOU WOULD LEARN FROM THEM?


I'LL BE INTERESTED IN YOUR RESPONSES.!!!!!!!

Good question Lenore! :)

  Of course my first choice would be Jesus, but I think your question probably is asking us to choose from among regular ol' believers like one of us.

  From the NT I would choose Peter, because God had worked such honesty into his life.  He is kind of an anti-type of a hero, but truly one whom God used in a very powerful way.

  From the OT (if I'm allowed another choice) it probably would be Jacob.  Yes, another little big man, but truly an Israelite without guile.

                              God Bless,  Mark C.

That's kinda funny Marc. I was also thinking about Jacob but for the exact opposite reason. I though it great how God could use and absolute scounderel like him. He was a crafty old one like so many of us. Actually, this is the kind of guy who would have his picture in the dictionary to help illustrate the definition of "guile".... :)
Verne

Hey Verne!

  You are absolutely right that Jacob was a perfect example of a guile filled scoundrel at the beginning of his life, but by the end of it he is a changed man.

   This supplanter receives a new name from God, "Israel-- Prince with God," and it is God's work in his life to transform him that causes the glory of God to shine in his life.

  God is really the only true hero in the Bible and it was he that used the "worm Jacob" to "thrash mountains."

  Peter is the NT version of Jacob and very illustrative of the facts surrounding what it means to live the Christian life.

                                              God Bless,  Mark C.

 :)January 31st:

If I was able to go back in time to interview a person, or even speak to a person who is already in the kingdom of heaven.

I would pick Stephen.

Acts Chapter 7 is my favourite.

The question I would ask Stephen, is what he felt when he looked up in the sky, and saw Jesus standing  to greet him home to heaven.

Acts 7: 54 "and said, "Look, I see the heavens opened and the "Son of Man standing at the right hand of God".

This is my favourite verse of the Bible.
THis I am told is the only place in the Bible where you read that Jesus is STANDING AT THE RIGHT HAND, other place has him sitting.
Image to be able to SEE JESUS STANDING TO GREET YOU HOME. Jesus standing waiting to receive you.
.....................................................................................

To go back in time to apprentice with,
one of two choice:
One of women who travelled and took care of Jesus needs.
Debra... she must of been well respected woman among her people,\...that an army captain refused to go to war without her..... to be able to learn from this woman, her attitudes, her mannerisms, her abilities, the way she adviced her people. To be able to learn how she was able to obtain that type of respect, a woman during that time where women were not respected, to lead her people to a victory.  That is something that I want to learn from her.

People who are genuinely respected are those who have no concern whatever about whether they are respected or not-- they are too involved in serving others (their Lord, their brethren, the poor...) to worry about their public image.  

Just my opinion...

al

 ;)February 1st


Okay Al.

If you had the chance to go back into Biblical Times to sit down and interview/apprentice with someone....
Who would you pick......?

Who do you most admire in the Bible, besides Jesus?

Why? What makes this person near and dear to your heart?

Lenore

I have given that some thought since you first posed the question, and I really don't have a solid answer.  First of all, I know I'm not smart enough to ask the right questions, or to understand the answers I'd hear.

If I had to choose right this minute, I guess it would be:

O.T.-- Adam.  I'd like to know what it was like to exist sinless, in fellowship with God before the fall, and to know how his post-fall nature remembered and regarded the contrast with his pre-fall experience.  (If permitted, I'd like to ask the same of Eve.)

N.T.-- Paul, for similar reasons as above.  I'd like to learn how he thought about God and men and himself before his conversion, and how he grew in grace and knowledge of the Lord for the rest of his life.

I would hope to sit at their feet toward the ends of their lives, to learn as much from them as possible.

al

From the O.T.----The ass that spoke to Balaam. I've always loved "Mr. Ed" so I think that would be a great interview.

But seriously, O.T.----Jonah
                       N.T.----the Apostle John.


--Joe

 :)On Saturday Night, the men of my church put on a fancy meal for the ladies of the church.
It was a real fun evening.
It was by invitation.
The tables were adorn with candles and flowers.
Each lady received a corsage.
We were allowed to barely get off our chairs.
Everything was served, from the water through to the dessert.
Music of violins played in the background. Each setting at the table had a name tag.
The courses including eggdrop soup, scrimp and avacado salad in pastry, to roast beef, potatoes, carrots, peas, green beans ties in green onions, aspargus, on a bed of lettuce, dinner roll, then for dessert it was poached pears with berry sauce and icecream.
Following that was men put on a skit, and music.
We had a games.  One of the games was find the
            LADY IN THE MIDDLE
1.  AB...................LITY
2.  SUM...............S
3.   O........CTIVE
4.  A.............TION
5. REA........E
6.  S.....NTY
7.  BIG........
8.   TIS...........

Most around our table got 7 of them.
It was number 6 that stump us.

See how you do.

I think I know #3, but that's it for me.  Where's Steve Fortescue when we need him? ;D

al

Thinking games are fun!!
Verne

Game:
1. ab.....lity
2. sum.....s
3. o....ctive
4. a....tion
5. rea...e
6. s...nty
7. big...
8. tis...

To get the answers you will have to email. Then I remember that I may not have internet after today. So I will give you the answers.
Did any of you who were putting on their thinking caps come up with the right ones.  If so which one.
Remember be honest.

Answers are
1. NORMA
2. MARIE
3. VERA
4. DORA
5. LIZ
6. EVE
7. AMY
8. SUE

Remember on Saturday Night , our table looked at this for an hour, and still couldnt come up with number 6, until the answer was revealed. It was the easiest.

March 10th :

Has anyone one ever read the books that were written between the Old Testament and the New Testament, like the history of the Maccabees.

Haley Bible Handbook:

I Maccabees, An historical work of great value on the Maccabean period, relating events of the Jews' heroic struggle for liberty (175-135 BC) Written about 100 BC by a Palestinian Jew.

II Maccabees. This is also a account of the Maccabean struggle  confining itself to the period of 175-161 BC. It professes to be an abridgement of a work written by a certain Jason of Cyrene, of whom nothing is known. Supplements  I Maccabees, but is inferior  to it.

Haley's Handbook lists other historical books that were written during the Old Testament Times and the New Testament Times.
Has anyone read any of these books, and what did you think of them.

APRIL 2, 2005:

Hi: Our church is embarking on the 40 days of purpose starting tonight, with a Video presentation. This will be a six week course. Sunday School will be doing as well. The adult sunday school will be studying. And those who are busy doing there own lesson plans teaching. There will be a small groups study on Monday Nights.
SO pray for our little church and the participants of this series, that God will get out each of our lives what he has purposed.

I may do another thread as I get more involved in this.

Here are some questions , I like you to think over and particpate in some discussion.

Section One:
WHAT ON EARTH AM I HERE FOR?

What do you think of the implications of this 'IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU"?

What drives you? What has been the driving force behind your life?

What image or metaphor best describes your life?

If life on earth just a preparation for eternity, How should we be acting and thinking?

What things that attract you keeps you from living out God's purpose?

What keeps people from pursuing God's purpose for them?

April 15

Here are some questions in the end of each section of the chapter studies of
Purpose Driven LIfe.

1. In spite of all the advertising around me, how can I remind myself that life is really about living for God, not myself.

2.I know that God, uniquely created me, What area of my personality , background, and physical appearance am I struggling to accept.

3. What would my family and friends say is the driving force of my life.
What do I want it to be?

4. Since I was made to last forever, what is the one thing I should stop doing and the one thing I should start doing today?

5.  What has happened to me recently that I now realize was a test from God? What are the greatest matters God has entrusted to me?

6. How should the fact that life on earth is just a temporary assignment change the ay I am living right now?

7.  Where is my daily routine can I become more aware of God's glory?

8.  What common task could I start doing as if I were doing for Jesus/

9. Since God knows what is best in what areas of my life do I need to trust him most?

10.  What area of my life am I holding back from God?

11.  What can I do to remind myself to think about God and talk to him more often throughout the day?

12.  What practical choices will I make today in order to grow closer to God?

13.  Which is more pleasing to God right now - my public worship or my private worship.
What will I do about this?

14.   How can I stay focus on God's presence, especially when he feels distant?

If you have not read the book the PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE BY RICK WARREN, it is a thought provoking book.
If you get the chance to attend a small group/sunday school sessions on his video series on the 40 days of purpose .  I think the opportunity to do so is worth it.
There are areas that make you think and explore God word a little deeper for yourself.

The above questions I am doing a lot of soul searching and having to put feet to my feelings on these matters, and it is not easy.

I would appreciate some participation in some of these questions to get insight from you, to help me with my soul searching on my own feelings on them.  Thanks.
Lenore

April 30

WEEK FOUR QUESTIONS:

DAY 22:
IN WHAT AREA OF MY L IFE DO I NEED TO ASK FOR THE SPIRIT'S POWER TO BE LIKE CHRIST TODAY?

DAY 23
WHAT IS ONE AREA WHERE I NEED TO STOP THINKING MY WAY AND START THINKING GOD'S WAY?

DAY 24
WHAT HAS GOD ALREADY TOLD ME IN HIS WORD THAT I HAVEN'T STARTED DOING YET?

DAY 25
WHAT PROBLEM IN MY  LIFE HAS CAUSED THE GREATEST GROWTH IN ME?

DAY 26
WHAT CHRISTLIKE CHARACTER QUALITY CAN I DEVELOP BY DEFEATING THE MOST COMMON TEMPTATION I FACE?

DAY 27
WHO CAN I ASK TO BE A SPIRITUAL PARTNER TO HELP ME DEFEAT A PERSISTENT TEMPTATION BY PRAYING FOR ME?

DAY 28
IN WHAT AREA OF MY SPIRITUAL GROWTH DO I NEED TO BE MORE PATIENT AND PERSISTENT?

May 6th:

I was thinking....dangerous I know....

Would anyone be interested in doing a book report...book club...where weekly..daily...we discuss a chapter of a book.

Whether it would be a chapter of a secular book..Christian Book..
Self help book...Novel...Book of the Bible....A daily devotional book like our Daily Bread.



Discuss certain aspects of what we learned...
or comments etc.

Would you please think about it...and let me know if there is any interest in this?

Thanks

Lenore.

So did any one read todays Daily Bread.
Any comments about what the author said...re his dog.. and trust circumstances....

May 8th: HAPPY LORD'S DAY.

I have one question that has been burning in me since yesterday.

It has to do with what has went on during the last week.

WHY ARE CHRISTIANS FRIENDSHIPS SO SUPERFICIAL, OR FAIR WEATHERED?

Reason why I am asking this question.
Is that the roller coaster ride I was on since a week ago Saturday.
One week later, for what ever reason, when one of the members of the body of CHrist, is in serious crisis, it severe and run tactic.

That is all I am going to say about.

I must say that my Christian friends are not superficial. They are true friends, and as such they treat me right.  One of them even tells me I'm wrong sometimes, and because I know he really cares about me, I listen.

A true friend will tell you the truth.  Someone who is not your friend will tell you what you want to hear, only if it's in their best interest.

A real friend will say and do what's right, even if it angers you, because they want what's best.

So, in my experience, Christian friends are the best kind.

Brent

It is amazing how ones I thought were my friends drop me because they did not like my POV.  To me a disagreement is a disagreement, but to some a disagreement means "I am mad at them" or that I am siding against them.  I am not going to flatter them just to be kept in theri good books.  So they drop me. :(

Marcia

Question:

When dealing with people....Which is better?

Quote"
Catching flies with honey or with vingear""

If you want a lot of flies in the house, honey is best.  If you want to get rid of flys, you use something that they don't like.

If you want to attract plenty of people, tell them what they want to hear, and promise to meet whatever need they have.  That's called marketing.

If you tell people something they don't want to hear, they don't like it, and often don't like you.

Brent

I would say it depends on the kind of people... :)
Verne

There is something that flies are really attracted to--it's usually found out on the
lawn in the backyard if you have a dog. And if you are able to talk enough of
it, you'll attract the most flies.

Or a cat that has not been potty-trained...or should that be litter-box trained?


I know yer not talkin'  'bout honey!
Verne

Verne,

I thought tenderhearted's quote was from the Bible, but upon searching for 'honey' I did not find the quote but found this:

Proverbs 5:3 For the lips of an adulteress drip honey, And smoother than oil is her speech;

Marcia

Like I said, if you want to attract people, honey works best....even foolish women know that.

Brent

What does it mean?

"the old boys club"

It means that someone is speaking about a "club" to which membership is handed out in a discriminatory and unfair manner.  In other words, an "old boys club" of corporate excecutives might mean that membership is given out due to personal preference instead of actual business skill.

"Old boys clubs" exist. 

What does it mean?

"Beating around the bush?"

Beating around the bush:

Means you are trying to say something but you are taking the long way to say it.

Sometimes it is better to get the other person thinking, because the direct approach is too direct.

What is?
                      Short & Sweet
                   + generating discussion
                   -  true colour responses
                   X "FUN & GAMES"
                   /  Intelligence Reasoning
                   = POINT ------------------------>>>SCORE
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What purpose does it serve to rake someone over the coals?

It helps burn off their hair.  That's the main reason.

You ask a lot of stupid, random questions.  Why?

Brent

tenderhearted would have made a good leading brother, except that it looks like she's a sister.

LBs were good at asking leading questions to direct the discussion down the path they wanted it to go.  It was never just open for discussion.

Marcia

Well, that's just the problem isn't it?  This thread says opinions are welcome.
If Tenderhearted asks the question, I'm going to offer an opinion, eh?  (Canadian speak there....)

My opinion is that she is a windbag.

Brent

The expression" showing your true colors" mean anything to anyone

A good example of showing your "true colors" would be if someone, let's say,
takes a nickname that sounds very humble and caring, but inside they are
like a coiled cobra, waiting to strike at anyone who tries to set them straight.
Once this happens they have shown their "true" colors.

They could take a name like "sweetness", yet,  inside be "Monstro".

That would be my definition.

--Joe

I have to admit, I was being quite sarcastic in my response. But I must point out a couple
of things. The Thread has in the title "Opinions Welcome"--this does not put a cap on what
type of opinion may be given. On another thread "tender" posted a story about a mouse
being pounced on by a cat every time it visits the lake(a reference to the BB). Then on this
thread asks for the defintion of what "true colors" is. When you mention "picking on "tender",
I have to say that she is putting herself in a position for it by the type of questions she is
asking. Ask a loaded/leading question, get a blunt or sarcastic reply.

Anyone want to take a shot at what a "loaded question" is? (Opinions Welcome).

--Joe

James 1: 23 & 24 NKJV


.............he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was......


Matthew 7: 1 to 6 NKJV

Judge not ,that you be not judged.
For with what judgement you judge, YOU WILL BE JUDGED; and with the measure you use, IT WILL BE MEASURED BACK TO YOU.
And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?
Or how can you say to your brother, 'LET ME REMOVE THE SPECK from your eye; and look,A PLANK IS IN YOUR OWN EYE/
HYPOCRITE!
FIRST REMOVE THE PLANK from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.


The questions I asked:
--concerning honey vs vingear in regards to flies.
--meaning of old boys club
--true colours
--

They were just simple questions.

WHAT WAS THE REACTION TO THESE QUESTIONS?  POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE.

I asked another question:

When the mirror is pointed in your direction, what do you really see.
Is the reflection clear or cloudy?


Sign:  Tender.

p.s. if I get this type of negative reaction, to a few simple questions, using a alias name, what would you do if the true idenity is revealed.
Would it be POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE/

Worth thinking about!

Sign: Just thinking out loud in the observations of reactions:  Tender.

Thinking out loud is quite allright.
Not very useful on a BB as the primary purpose here is an exchange of ideas.
Verne

Agreed, but to exchange those ideas, one shouldnt have to go into a war zone to do it.
Tender

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand in this corner we have.............Tom & Jerry.................

Verne,

I think what tenderhearted is saying is that she does not want to exchange ideas.  She just wants to instruct us.  Because disagreeing with her means that it is a negative reaction and therefore a war zone.  The lake (from the fiction where Tom and Jerry meet the dragon) gets kind of choppy and life gets kind of rough.

Marcia

WINDBAG is a coward, who mooches for a living.  She's afaid to be herself, but prefers to play silly games.

She is holier than we are.  She is more loving.  She thinks she is better in every way.....except for the fact that she must mooch for a living and is always mistreated by everyone she meets, all the time.

If you disagree with her you are "negative," if you get frustrated with her garbage, you are judgemental.  She's too dense and self centered to realize that this behavior is exactly the reason why her life is the way it is. 

Am I being harsh?  No, I get email from this person all the time, and much of it is downright nasty!  She's full of the worst kind of sickening God-talk.

WINDBAG, you need to stop this garbage, and come out and say what you want to say?

Brent

Then your ideas can't be that important to you.
People who think their ideas are jmportant have been willing to die for them.
Of course, if you do go into a war zone, you should be prepared for battle... :)




If you are going to effectively instruct, you ought to be informed, and you ought to have integrity.
Both are necessary.
Nothing stinks more than pompous hypocrites, whose manner of life reflects nothing but ungodliness, and who fail to adorn the doctrine in every way, presuming to lecture other believers. It should not be tolerated in my view.
Now I am not saying that this applies to Tenderhearted. I am just saying that we know nothing about her and so it is difficult, if not impossible to attach  real significance to her observations.
Verne

What do you mean we know nothing about her?  She emails me everyday as Lenore, and in the recent one's has identified herself as "Tenderhearted."

If she is going to post anonymously here, but send me irritating emails regarding her anonymous posts, I'm not going to respect her anonymity. 

I don't think anyone was fooled to begin with....she only posted on threads that Lenore started. 

Give it up Lenore.  If you have something to say, just come out and say it.  Don't pretend any longer, and quit sending me email.

I'll close by quoting Lenore in one of her nicer letters to me,

"Have a happy Judgement Day,"

Brent

Brent,

You've let the mouse out of the bag. :)

Yes, I did notice that tenderhearted only posted on threads that Lenore had started.

Can't play the cat and mouse game now that you've given away her true identity eh??

Marcia

There's a bunch of people here who are anonymous, but she's the only one who posts anonymously, then taunts me with it in email!

Lenore demands that everything revolve around her, and support her.  When something doesn't, she can't deal with it.  She is more than capable of using her brain, being creative, and even fighting....yet she is of such low character she won't support herself.

She acts holy and spiritual, yet in private she is nasty.

I don't feel sorry for her, and her irritating daily email more than warrants her being rebuked here.

Lenore, drop the mask and either enter the discussion as an equal adult, or leave the board.  I won't treat you like a lessor person, and I won't give you a pass.  You must state what you mean and be willing to stand by it.  If that task proves too difficult, then leave.

Brent

This thread started by Lenore is QUESTION OF THE DAY/OPINIONS WELCOME

Don't you love with when you see a kid enjoying a game and then another comes along and spoils the game and accuses you for not sharing.  True that sharing is a 'good' thing, but in the context the real issue was that kid#2 spoiled the play fo the first.

Hope you understand the deep profound meaning of my kid-play analogy.  :)

Marcia

P.S. To avoid any misunderstanding I decided to repost.  My analogy was in reference to the welfare discussion which got sidetracked and taken over when Lenore made it into a personal issue.
Marcia

I know I know...I was just trying to gently tease her into coming out... :)

Verne

p.s Is she still actually e-mailing you?
I seem to remember her coming to some sort of understanding by one of her posts so I am surprised that she is still worked up about what happened. Apparently some of us just can't stay away huh?
My opnion about folks generally closely follows the way in which they first appeared on the BB.
As everyone knows, I was vernecarty from first post. Then you had the sneaky types...tells you a lot about a man/woman...

Doggone it, no more cat and mouse.

I guess I should qualify.
I liked you from the beginning and you know it.
The first thing you said to me was to take it easy on Luke and I found it easy to be entreated as you recall.
Tom Maddux was also initially an anonymous poster. I like the man very much.  :)
Verne

Being catty are we?
Verne

p.s. don't mind my dogma

Yes, among other things, she has several times rebuked me for having a bad "bedside manner."

I find it laughable.  The assumptions she makes on her part are the clear product of a life of taking and demanding.  She speaks from the perspective of "patient," and I exist as "provider."  It is my job to help her, not hurt her, and furthermore I must do so in a nice way.  (She's not used to ever having to pay one of her doctors, so she has become accustomed to getting help from pretty much everyone she meets, at no cost to her.)

Well, I didn't play her game, which in her mind was unchristlike.  She reminded me of the Hypocratic Oath that I took, which says,  "Above all, do no harm," and claimed that I harmed her, along with my bad bedside manner, bullying, "head up the butt," and a bunch of other things she prates on about. 

I'm not her doctor, and she's not my patient.  I refuse to play in her sandbox, where everything and everyone exists to help poor Lenore, and I won't let her pretend to be a "dear sister."  She's a phoney, she's nasty, and she's selfish. 

She's welcome to post here as she wishes, but she must understand that ideas have consequences, and her lousy ideas have the consequence of generating mockery and disdain. 

QUESTION: WHAT DOES IT MEAN  IF YOU CAN'T STAND THE HEAT GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN?

just a question.....

Brent

"If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen" reminds of the time I wanted to make
baked potatoes. I wrapped six of them in aluminum foil, but made the mistake of putting them
in the Microwave. Later, a nice woman at the Burn Center told me it's better to bake potatoes
in the oven. And I have ever since.

Faraday cage my friend. Muy malo!
You could spark youself right into glory with a stunt like that.
I am a man of the out-door grill myself.
I really like the Brinkman models.
I make a hair-raising Caribbean Jerk chicken. Now that's heat!   ;D
Verne

No it wasnt a cat and mouse game.

This whole thing would be good for a research psychology paper for human interpersonal interaction.

Maybe even the National Enquirier would find it interesting.

This is not directed at you Joe.  Your line was just something I used.

The cat and mouse games is continuing, where bashing, trashing, insults and threats, have occurred where I cant defend myself, even if I even attempted to defend myself, in some of those exaggerations, what ever I wrote will be twisted so badly, that it would only be used to kindle the flame, of someone personal vendetta.

I can only say.  I only told Brent three letters. That was the only insult I gave.
So if he exaggerates over this, then what else is he exaggerating over about me, to feed to the audience, to boost his ego.

This is all I am going to say in  my defense, Except I am going to use the sword of God.

Romans 12:19:NKJV

Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath,
FOR IT IS WRITTEN:
VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY...Says the Lord.


Now I am also going to say:

I FORGIVE YOU BRENT, FOR ALL YOUR INSULTS, ALL YOUR ABUSIVENESS, ALL YOUR VENDETTA ATTITUDES , ALL YOUR GOSSIPING, ALL OF IT.

Matthew 6:14 & 15

For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
But if you do not forgive men their trespasses , neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

1 John 3:14 & 15

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren{believers}
He who does not love his brother[believers] abides in death.
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

2 Corinthians 5:10

For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done whether good or bad.

Revelations 21:12
And I saw the dead, small and great standing before God. and books were opened, And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

{I find Revelation very simple to understand}

1 Samuel 17:47
FOR THE BATTLE IS THE LORD'S.

Since the vendetta is already directed at me.
I might as well continue with this.

The residue of the assembly is still among those who preceive themselves in authority.
That authority of course was predominately male. Women had to submit to the authority of the males, or leading sisters who husbands were in higher authority.
It is in this authority, that has been demonstrating on the website for the last 4 weeks.
The residue is obvious. SInce I have been away from the assembly for 18 years now, My spiritual eye sight is very clear. Because it is evident that it is mostly the women who are leaving this website, because of the male domination here. This is only my opinion, but it is also an observation.
I can say think about it. But I know to one who is on a personal vendetta, wont. I know he will continue with his put down, degrading abuses, insults, threats for all the world to see.
He may want to continue. He is free to do so.
He was the one who jumped at those questions, he was the one who jumped at the three little statements, all because of a personal vendetta. There is one person here said I should learn what he has to say. I say WHY? Why should I learn from someone who has nothing but contempt in his heart. The residue of the assembly is showing up in all the emotions that have been displayed in his personal vendetta in his very negative emotional responses.
I could not be one of those people, who hero worshipped a modern day Moses, who lead the people in exodus out of the assembly. I could not give reverence to a  man saviour, by pouring oil over his head to inflate the ego, and by kissing his feet in submission. Maybe I surprised him by standing up, and his resentment was the result, thus proving I am not as weak as he thought I was.  As for the welfare myth thread, go ahead and voice your opinions, I am asking to make sure it not just book knowledge , but real life knowledge from the trenches too.
Voice your opinions is a choice that only the person voicing them can make. It is a choice to leave the assembly. It is a choice to stay there. God has given us each this freedom. What has God given , who are we to judge. The choice a person makes is between that person and God. Whatever station or circumstances of life. Same as the choices here. As long as my choice my right doesnt supersede anyone elses. Even if it does, it maybe necessary to stand toe to toe with a person who under a personal vendetta is intentionally bend on during harm. I have also notice that some one saying that I used my mental illness as an excuse, yet when weak became a clear vision of clarity, then used of same excuse although it is abusive assembly is fallen back on.
Same thing different reason. This is my observation. My opinions, My voicing, My choice.

Undoubtedly clear.

How's work?

The "cat and mouse" reference was pretty cheesy I must admit. But I found
that story about the lake a little fishy, that's all.

I am under advisement of my medical professions who are involved in my diagnosis and treatments.

For all the world to see:

I am not working for medical reasons.

body, mind and soul.  

My reasons for not working, is between me and my doctors,

For anyone who wants to be nosy:
I even had an appointment with an urologist surgeon today. Diagnosis is none of your business.

I go next week for a sleep lab clinic, to seek out treatment for sleep apnea, which I was diagnosis last fall having.

Right after that I go to the Diet Clinic at the city hospital, which I am on the list for a gastric bypass.

IT IS SO WONDERFUL TO BE A CANADIAN CITIZEN.

I may not be getting money for pay, I do contribute by doing volunteer work, which will continue to enhance my skills so when the okay is given , I maybe able to get a job.

But I dont know how many years have you been out of the job markets, looking for work, especially work in a Canadian Market.

Rules have change quite abit. I have been putting out resumes , with the spring, coming the college students and high school students out of school, employers knows it is cheaper to pay a student than a woman of mature age.

I have been up and down this town with resumes , I know exactly what the job market holds.

Work,  today, I did a volunteer job, doing computer work for the afternoon.
It was great, I was praised for my effort. I was paid in kind.

So work was great today.

Hi Lenore,

I did not agree that most of the regular posters are male.
I do not think that the male BB posters ever said, "Lenore, I am a brother you have to submit to my point of view."  I did get that from a post-GG local assembly, but not on this BB.
The only personal vendetta is your own.  You were the one who turned the discussion on welfare and made it personal.
Guaranteed that if you called Dr. Laura she would give it to you straight and tell you to work towards getting self-sufficient.
Spiritual eyesight does not necessarily clear up by the number of years of departure from the assembly, but rather from understanding that the assembly is a false religious system and by working towards a new perspective.  Number of years away from it then helps to clear up ones eyesight.

Got to go.
Marcia

It was a cat and mouse game:

I notice that every time I came on the web site, even when there were no names on the bottom where it records users, A certain name would appear.

Every time I put out a line(question), he was the one who jumped at it.
I even made three statements on Life of A woman, he was the one who jumped at it.

I made up the story:

The sea kingdom was the assembly
the dragon was the head of the assembly

the lake is this website.

Do I have to continue with the explanation?

Dr. Laura is not my doctor. Dr. Laura does not know my medical records. Dr. Laura doesnt have my diagnosis, or the recommended treatments from my doctors.

Marcia I dont want to fight with you.

I have one small favour to ask you.  Mind your own business please.

Hey, there usually aren't violins playing during "Tom & Jerry"--what's going on?

What do you mean?? There are always violins when one of them is deing or being kicked out ;D

Hi Lenore:
You did not ask for it but here is my two cents sister.
What the folk on this BB say and think about you is of very little consequence in my opinion.
As a Christian you are a child of the King and your destiny is one of glory. Period.
I think it was a mistake to unveil your personal life on the BB as it has brought you nothing but conflict and heartache.
Here is my advice:

Pretend that you never mentioned your social situation.

Simply trust God to show you if, how and when He may want you to make a change. Stop talking about this. There are lots of other interesting things to talk about.
Verne
p.s. I am re-reading the book of Genesis. If you care to share some insights we could talk about it.
Have you read the recent book The Nephilim and the Pyramid of the Apocalypse by Patrick Herron ?

http://www.nephilimapocalypse.com/

I truly don't see anyone getting "ganged up" on at all. I have made comments in the
past on this board that have resulted in yourself, Sondra,  on this board, and others on your other
board laying into me for what I have said. That is all part of what happens when you post
on a BB. A couple of times it has lead to a grave misunderstanding on my part, but that's
part of the price you pay when you expose yourself or your thoughts to others.

If one comes to the board and makes very long and lofty comments, don't expect that you
will receive only praise for what you have said. Others may see it as "holier than thou" drivel,
or as humorous, or even boring. If this is being "ganged up on", then we have all suffered the
same at one time or another. I think all of us have suffered or are suffering some type of pain
or hardship in our lives. Last year I suffered something that still is affecting me, but I don't need
people to start playing violins or singing Gregorian chants because of it. I'm sorry Tender has some
of the physical problems she does, but that doesn't make an allowance for only pity and tender
and kind words to be said  to her when she enters the BB.

I'm not part of a posse by any means, and always state my own thoughts, whether they be
serious, sarcastic or humorous. In some ways(only an analogy) the BB is like a boxing ring, where
you throw out a punch(an idea) and someone receives the blow, or counter-punches with their
own punch(rebuttal). But don't expect to enter the ring with your gloves on and only throw
punches without getting a bloody nose now and then.


P.S. I'd love to visit Canada, but I am severely allergic to Moose--if I watch "Rocky and Bullwinkle" I break out in a rash.

Thanks, Joe

I'll stop being a Jerk now.

Lenore, post as often as wish, say anything you wish, and use the BB in any manner you choose to use it.

I'll not say another word about you, ever.  If you attack me, the only response I will make is to delete your post and your account.

You are now officially ignored on my part.  Your email and e-greetings will continue to be deleted.  Please feel at home to share with everyone about your clear spiritual insight.

Brent

Hello BB participants:

  I have received a bunch of complaints about how Lenore is being treated on the BB by Brent.  These people want me to do something about this.

[b] I want to let everyone know that the only ability I have to influence Brent is via entreaty and by prayer.  He has Adminstrator status on the BB, and is free to do and say whatever he wants.  If he doesn't agree with me that calling people "Windbags, Freaks, hypocrites, etc." is rude behavior he probably will continue to do as he has in the past.
  
   It takes two to fight (as I used to tell my kids ;)), and so somebody in this situation will have to decide to be the adult in this war of words.

   Verne's suggestion was a good one:  Let's just talk about something else---- Please don't tell me "but he/she started it" it brings back too many memories of when my girls were pre-teens ;)

  Yes, I have used sarcasm to make my point----- Grow-up!!!  

   I will not make appeals to Christian attitudes and behaviors, or offer reams of scriptural advice on this subject because it apparently will be dismissed as hypocrisy, or irrevelant.  

    Yes, anything can happen when you post on a BB, but is this what we want from this forum?  I think we are much better than this!  

   Disagree, and disagree strongly and passionately, if you are so inclined, but don't strive to bite and devour one another!! (oops-- I appealed to the Bible :-[ ;))   Hurt is what happens when we try and argue our point via personal insult.

    I hope this is a word to the wise that will be sufficient.

                                                  God Bless all us Kids,
                                                                         Mark C.

  

I appreciate blunt.  I much prefer it to spineless, two-faced, deceptive, phoney, or little white lies.

Blunt honesty is just the thing.  I don't see how you can go wrong with it, in most cases. 
Every now and then some surgical, anesthetized honesty is needed, but only in the most delicate cases.  Certainly it won't work where the blunt type is called for. 

So, please don't apologize for being blunt.  If more people were honest and upfront about what they believe, we would all be horribly surprised, I am sure. I am convinced that the average go along-get along type of person has private thoughts that would shock most people!  They have opinions, love, hatred and passion, like anyone else, but they are too cowardly to share what they really believe.

When this type of person becomes the norm, we have a society of drones, who are willing to follow orders, so that they can go-along-get-along.  It happened a generation ago, and a generation before that, and so on.  Bluntness is always what stops this sort of thing from getting worse.

At some point in human history, the most rude, violent, intrusive event to ever occur will happen.  Bluntness will be brought to a new level.  A short trial, where One Person is judge, jury and Monarch, will occur and punishment will be given instantly, without appeal.  That's blunt. 

Anyway, I digress and speed away from the topic.

I have little respect for a careful, lukewarm, polite friendly person, who I know can't be counted on.  But I have plenty of respect for a bold, principled and passionate enemy.  (you're not an enemy, don't worry)

I have love and respect towards a bold, courageous, honest, loyal and principled friend, who knows when to speak up.  We all need someone like that, and I feel sorry for those who don't have one, or who are afraid of it. 

Someday, what was said in secret will be shouted from the housetops....God is blunt, even rude by some measure. 

Blunt is good.  I lament the fact that we have so little black and white anymore.

agreed

I forgive you.

Thank you for the compliment for undoubtly seeing with clear spiritual eyes.

I only said one negative word, prior to all of this, it was when I put my foot in my mouth over a misunderstanding in a conversation.  You told me that I was forgiven and the topic wont be mention again.

I will not say another negative word against , because as far as I am concerned this discussion is over.
I dont hold grudges, I air them to let go of them.

You know what I do hope a psychology student, or research is being conducted on this website, because all the human interaction, and so called Christian human interaction, would make on great paper.

Lenore

P.S. I'd love to visit Canada, but I am severely allergic to Moose--if I watch "Rocky and Bullwinkle" I break out in a rash.

Thanks, Joe

Dont worry Joe the Moose only get contagious allergy wise, during the Rut season.

Do they still have Rocky and Bullwinkle on?  I used to love that cartoon.
I did love Tom and Jerry too.

There was also a cartoon about a walrus and a penquin, penquin voice was also Get Smart
"Don Adams".
I cant remember the title of the cartoon. 
Do you know it?

We had a Canadian Show here called Check It Out, starting Don Adams.

Would you know if this actor is still living.
Because it been almost 40 years since Get Smart was on.

Maybe some Get Smart Trivia would be fun.

1. There was an actor name Victor French - Little House on Prairie-Highway to Heaven -
who use to appear on Get Smart.
What was his character?

Where are you in Genesis?

I am teaching in my Sunday School class about Joseph , going from a 17 year old boy to the ruler of a nation. All the trials he has been going through.

During our Sunday Service this past week. We are being lead by my Pastor, on Faith.
Faith as a Adventure.  The examples of Abraham.
One of the aspects is Faith is an Adventure of Obedience. Even though Abraham was called righteous, his journey of Obedience was not immediate.

No I have not read the above mention books.  Although I have read the fictional account of Revelations "LEFT BEHIND SERIES" The first book was very compelling, I couldnt put it down.

So yes I would like to discuss Genesis with you.

Lenore

I emailed you a response and was going to ignore this but changed my mind based on the fact that you made subsequent posts on this BB.

A contrary POV should not be viewed as fighting.

If you post or email me your business, then expect that I will comment.

On second thoughts, I am loathe to comment on anything that you post because you say that Other Opinions Are Welcome  but it does not look like you mean it.

I disagree with you that you are undoubtedly seeing with clear spiritual eyes.  Your spirituality is clouded.

.....

Marcia

I thought "rylan" was a little wierd, too.  ;D (originally, "he" had your email address. ;) )

They sent me a couple pm's that had mm as part of their email address or their name that came up on the pm's that they sent me. It seems that they lived in CA, though, and I forgot about that.
On a joking thread, they outed me on a post last summer, then immediately deleted that particular post. Sorry. I know you don't "out" anon posters.

So, nevermind. I'm just tired. Bad couple of weeks.

I got a new Bible and started readng through it and again had my attention arrested by the flood story.
I still have not decided on who I think is right about the identity of the "Sons of God" in Genesis 6.
Very able scholars like Gleason Archer and J Sidlow Baxter reject the idea that it is referring to angels. Bullinger thinks that it is and makes what I think is a very strong case. He is right that in almost every case the specific Hebrew expression refers to angelic beings.
He also gives some good insight as to why the flood was necessary.
He contends that what it means that Noash was "perfect in his generations" has to do with genetic purity and that all of the rest of humanity had become corrupted because angelic beings inter-married with human women to produce the giants of ancient times. Patrick Herron thinks that this will happen again.
Makes you wonder about the alien abduction stories doesn't it?
Both Jude and Peter provide some insight that Bullinger may be right. (2 Peter 2:4 Jude 6)

Jude said that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrha was the same as the angels that "kept not their first estate".

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

I also realised that what Sondra said earlier about the flesh also being a doorway for demonic infiltraton is probably right for that is exactly what Jude 8 states.

Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh...

The reference seems specific to sexual sin.

Anyway, that is where I am right now and instead of reading straight through as I planned, it looks like I am going to get stuck on this theme as it is so interesting. I am re-reading Archer's analysis for balance...
Has anyone at your churhch preached on this?
Verne

Hey! I'm Black!   ;D
Verne

I guess I should of said I am not going to argue on this point with you.

Opinions is welcome yes, but when it gets into demands, then they are no longer opinion, when it gets into personal vendetta, it is not longer an opinion,
when it gets to ridiculing someone to the ground it is not longer an opinion.

If there is a valid opinion on a subject with different viewpoints, then express them, even on the welfare myth that you so feel like you h ave been denied the discussion.


No I am not going to give you more fuel for the fire.

Marcia You have an obvious habit of "the pot calling the kettle black"

Maybe someone will enlighten you what that means.

I was not into hero worshipping , pouring oil on the head of a modern day moses, and kissing the feet of hero saviour. 

What you fire at me in accusations, is what the mirror should be showing in yourself as well, because I have seen it in reverse.

This is just my opinions, and observations and I am expressing these opinion, in as gently as I could. Your opinions are welcome. But I am not going to get into a cat fight with you on this one.
Minding your own business, meant that interferring in the decision about me working , That decision is between me and my doctor, Ultimate between me and God. For this decision, there is peace. Until circumstances changes, then God peace will be with me, as he opens the door to a full time job, that would make me self sufficient.

I agree with Verne & Mark:  Drop it. and talk about something else.

Lenore

Not yet. I will read up to Genesis 6, unfortunately I do not have an Old Testament Commentary,  but I do have some handbooks.

Dont forget , this country is in political correctness mode, fighting for the bill, granting same sex marriage to fall.
Most churches are holding their breaths waiting .

Got to go. I have an appointment at urotherapy.

Talk to you later.

Lenore

This really irks me.  You send me your sob story.  I respond to you stating clearly that it is my opinion on the matter.  You label it as interfering.

Also it is a good cop out to discredit the person then you don't have to even consider what the person it saying.  I had discussions like this with young teens.  Teen would say, "You're a hypocrite..."  which may or may not be true, but it certainly did not have anything to do with the issue at hand.

Like I said I can discuss with whomever if they are willing to have an honest discussion.  You don't like that I agree with Brent so you call it loyalty or hero worship etc...  I will not be your support group and flatter you to remain in your good books.

As they say, the squeaky wheel get the oil.  With young ones it was easy to side with the noise maker and silence the other just to get peace and quiet.  I realized that that was very unfair to the other and, peace and quiet or not,  I had to learn to deal with the real issue.  Often one would be enjoying some activity and another would come along and want to take over with the complaint "he's not sharing with me".

Lenore, stop acting like a kid.  I am tired of your temper tantrums.  It is time to grow up!!

The board is yours.  Do as you please.  I will check in later to see if there is any other discussion happening.

I've also got to go.

Marcia

Responding to a few posts down:

Lenore---

The cartoon with the penguin that had Dan Adam's voice I believe was
called "Tennessee Tuxedo". You're also right that Victor French did appear
on "Get Smart" as a co-agent of agent 86(Don Adams)---he didn't have a
beard like he did on "Little House" or "Highway to Heaven". On Get Smart
he usually would appear as someone hiding in a trash can and popping up
with the trash can lid still on top of his head, or some other crazy stunt like
that.

--Joe

How do you generally approach your study of a book of the Bible?
Some folk prefer a thematic approach. Of course those of us with an assembly history were drilled in a modified inductive method. I have found that often a book will naturally suggest to us how to approach it. For example in Genesis, a good bird's eye view is to think about it in terms of the seven great lives portrayed.
In fact the theme of generations, seem to be the central one of the entire Bible.
At the outset we appear to have a broad introduction of the generations of both heaven and earth, with an early focus on earthly generations, going selectively and ultimately to the book of the generation of Jesus Christ in Matthew, and of which line,we Christians are a part...royalty!  :)
Verne

To do a Bible study, I can be very methodical.
Or when I get into the historical sections of the Bible , I read it straight through, because the history part is a passion of mine.

On the subject of "sons of God"  I went from the Haley's Handbook, to the Complete Book of Who Who in the Bible, I also reviewed several different translations of the scripture.
I also read the commentaries in study Bible I have.

Haley's Handbooks says that they were either fallen angels. Or from the Sethite families intermarrying with the families from the line of Cain.

It is interesting that when this union of the two 'sons of God" and the "daughters of the people" how declined the morals of society became leading up to the time of Noah.
Throughout the old testament, during the making of the covenants from Abraham to Ezra, the warning of intermarriage between the people of covenant people and the uncovenant people, thus leading to the decline of people keeping the covenant. We see these people struggling.
God continuing to discipline them, rescuing them time and time again, at time of worshipping and giving thanks, then once again falling away, and getting involved into ways of people of the world. God frequently uses the example of sexual sin, of how God's people adulterated themselves with the world, being as unfaithful wife to God. Hosea is a book relating this.
What have you researched on the sons of God, that can add further insights.

Lenore

Did you ever notice that the NKJV in Genesis fourteen refers to Lot as Abraham's brother?

I don't get it. We are told clearly in Genesis eleven that Lot was the son of Haran, who was Abraham's brother, and which would therfore make Lot Abraham's nephew as stated in the KJV. Strange!
Verne
p.s.  does anybody know if the Hebrew makes no clear distinction?

You got me looking up this point. I consulted the Who Who in the Bible.
I even went back to study notes on a three year Bible Study I did 10 years ago
Thru the Bible in the Year, and the Bible Character.

Who WHo said that Lot was an orphan, taken in by his grandfather.

In the NKJV: In Genesis 14:12:
It states:

They also took Lot,
Abram's "brother's son, who dwelt in Sodom, and his goods, and departed.

Some of these inconsistencies, can be confusing , but a former Pastor of mine, said that if they do  not take away from the Gospel Message of Salvation, we can discuss them, ponder them, but we can excuse them. Due to the fact, that most of the scripture were hand copied for generations, and human error can get into the way.  Look at the preservation of all the details the scriptures have to offer, God preserved down to last details, what was really important.

Also brother bit, could be a cultural thing too, because this same former Pastor was from Zimbawawe, true Africian.
Because he consider an uncle, called him "the Shona version of  Dad" , so the cultural of Abram at the time, Lot was a grown man. Even though he was a nephew, Abram could of considered him a brother. An equal instead of Uncle of authority, nephew subservant. Brothers were equal.
From the Christian point of view, the term brothers are in respect to the connection with God.

These are my insights, and what I have gleaned.

Thanks for the topics, it is very stimulating and interesting.

Lenore

 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter   Genesis 19:4:

There is something profoundly sad about a society that defiles and perverts even the young.
What a picture that must have been outside Lot's door with men of all ages clamoring for the rape of his guests!
I note with great interest, the determination of the radical homosexual activists to bring this fight to the very hearts and minds of even our children by flooding schools with their propaganda. People like to criticize men like James Dobson for his stance on these issues. I think he understands what is really at stake.
God help us...!
Verne

That is the second recorded example of homosexual sin, in the Bible.
Of course we are told to hate the sin, love the sinner.
Yet I believe in our todays society of tolerance and acceptance, and political correct language and attitude, we come to accept other 'sins' of the Bible as norm. Homosexuals are just the demanding equal time. If we didnt tolerate 'sins' of society today, as normal behaviour, would the 'sin' of homosexuality be so prevailent.
I dont know. Homosexual 'sin' in Noah's days, in Lot's day, and even in Paul's days.
God punished in Noah's day, in Sodom and Gomorrah,  as we see in Romans 1:18 to 32

Romans 1: 27:NKJV
Likewise also the men leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
Vs: 28: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge , God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting.

Romans continue to list Vs 29 to 31 the things that people where being filled in.

Back in Sodom, Lot brought those angels into his house for protection, and even offered his daughters, to the masses, to satisfy the lustfulness of the men outside, the girls were rejected, and the demand heighten in lust for the angels.

You are right, in this age and time, every fiber of society is being flooded to accept the gay lifestyle, tolerate, that even school age children are being read books about family consisting of same sex partner.
This country of Canada is in the midst of passing a bill on same sex marriage, which will strike down the bill, that marriage constitutes between a man and a woman.
Television shows showing this lifestyle as normal. With politicians being elected into office, the power to change laws, it is only going to get worse.
There is all kinds of 'ALTERNATIVE" lifestyles, such as vampires, witch covenants, child porn, it is all coming to a head, all want equal rights to do what they wants to do.

It is a lesson for us, that by demanding our own rights, because every one rights, is what is right in their own eye, are we contributing to the downslide of society. Because everyone wants equal rights, and laws in the Human Rights Constitutions, grants those rights.

Check out Romans 1 : 18 to 32
Especially VS: 27 to 32

Lenore

Thanks for information about Tennessee Tuxedo.

Get Smart was a great show, even if it was a little silly.
I remembered Victor French popping up as the secret spy, giving smart the information he needed, I remember even one episode where those spies in those secret places, would always complain.

Now for another trivia question:

What was 99 real name?

The one I dont know is what was the Chief's really name?

Lenore

Verne, Did you finish the book 'Nephilim and the Pyramid of the Apocolypse' ? I can easily see the hybreds having the knowledge to build the Pyramids no problem. The question I wondered if he answered is what happens when the hybred part of the person dies half human, half angel does the wicked spirit then go on to the next victim? it would seem so. But how does half human die and the spirit part of IT go on ? this could be more then anyone  wants to know! ("seducing spirits and doctrines of devils " from I Tim 4:1 also you see Gabriel and Michael fighting with the princes of Persia.)  I would think one with the Gift of discerning of spirits can spot these types in a crowd. Ha.. Summer.

I heard this guy on late night talk radio (Art Bell) Interesting website.

http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/index2.html

Thanks Brent. Looks like a real freak show! Summer...Gidday from L.A.

Thanks Brent

Art Bell I used to listen to his show when I couldn't get to sleep. After hearing a bit then I really couldn't get to sleep. Mostly UFOs and stuff but we know all about that because one of the most fruitful places to watch them is just in the outskirts of Ottawa in Carp.

I wish I could hear more of his radiio shows they were so reassuring NOT. I could have had nightmares after hearing all the stuff to be afraid of and how Aliens were not all good but had an agenda....... Stay tuned......for the rest of the story Oh no they are taking me away...............................

Yes, it's a little freaky...but that's a nice word.

Quayle is saying pretty much the same thing that the book Verne recommends is talking about.

I think there were giants, and that they were across the board bad people.

As to the pyramid, I think it was built before the flood....

As far as proof, I have none.  According the the Mayan calender, the world will end in 2012....so I have a few more years to win the World Series of Poker and sail to New Zealand.  It will have to be in that order.

Of course, in the event I am abducted by aliens, all bets are off.  In that sorry circumstance, I would be forced to abandon long range goals in favor of whatever was expedient for the moment.

Deep thoughts to be sure....

Brent

Yeah I agree the Giants were not nice people. Did you see the sketch of the one getting ready to smash the small guy with the brick? No wonder the spys came back with a chilling report except for Joshua and Caleb (grasshoppers in their sight) Also on the sight the real Endy Jones has been given permission to excavate the Ark of the Covenant the Kabbul state "the time is now right" all he has to do is drill a hole into the location under the temple mount (good-luck) and put a camera in. It was my understanding the Ark could'nt be touched with human hands else you would be elecriicuted, but well what do I know. It is interesting "many will run to and fro and knowledge shall increase" alot of tech over the last 100 years, maybe their back.  Summer.

Opinions are welcome:

Let's say you are a teacher, with 10 students.

5 of the 10 are average, dependable and seem to be giving their best.
2 of the 10 are "at risk," and have behavior problems, maybe even learning disabilities.  They disrupt the classroom frequently.
3 of the 10 are gifted, highly intelligent students that deliver inconsistent performances.  On one assignment they shine, and on the next, due to boredom, they turn in sloppy work.  They are capable of doing much better, but grow bored and disinterested.  They are getting A's and B's, but could have A+'s across the board if they could be challenged.  Their high achievements at the beginning of the year have slipped.

As a teacher, which of the students deserve the most time and attention?

I submit the answer is in the Bible, and that as a society we are doing the opposite of what we should be doing.

Brent

Matthew 18: 1-5

Vs 3-5:

Assuredly, I say to you, "unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.  Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Whoever received on little child like this in My name receives Me."

READ MATTHEW 18: 6 to 10

Vs 10:
Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven."


Matthew 19:14

But Jesus said:
"Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.


Matthew 19: 13-15.


Lenore

Galatians 5 came to mind.

Vs: 7 to 12
Vs: 13 to 15
vs: 16 to 26

My questions with this:

Can the fruits of the spirit in Galatians 5:22to 24 be accomplished before Galatians 5:19 to 21 is conquerored.


Lenore

With no scripture to refer too, my choice is the 5 that are dependable and giving it their best shot. If your heart is not in it don't waste my time.
Mark K

Using the parable of the talents, we see that God values things differently than we might.  Without going into detail at this time, I think that the teacher owes it to the gifted students to spend a little more time with them.  Here's why:

They have the most potential, and due to the slow, boring nature of the class, are losing interest.  The constant trouble with the "at risk" kids doesn't help.  By keeping the gifted kids tuned in, it will actually help the "average" kids maintain their work ethic, and perhaps help them to do even better.  When the "at risk" kids are not the center of attention, they disrupt the class less, and may actually feel some pressure to get with the program. 

I think schools should concentrate on developing the brightest and best.  This helps everyone.  Spending so much time and energy on the rotten one's means to smart one's can do sloppy, careless work and still get by.  That's not what we need for our children.

Those that are smart and achieve should be rewarded more than those who don't.  Raise the bar, raise the level of competition and reap the rewards.

Opinions welcome.

Brent

You can have all the talent in the world and with no ambition or work ethic you won't go very far. As far as gifted people go, it's not society or corporate americas  job to keep them from getting bored. I'm sure any CEO or scientists job involves some discipline they find boring.
Prisons are full of intelligent people who had high school behavior problems. I know this because of my recent involement in prison ministry.
The schools should not revolve around the average person either.
I do agree that our school systems should "raise the bar". I respect anyone who does the best with what they were born with.

I think we misunderstand eachother, Mark.

I should clarify something, I am not advocating catering to the gifted/lazy!  Your statements on ambition are right one.  What I am saying is that the classrooms and much of the budget gets soaked up by problem kids, not the average, and NOT the gifted.

What I am saying is instead of slowing the whole class down, and teaching to a minimum requirement, they should keep the classroom moving along, and giving the gifted an opportunity to excel.

I certainly respect anyone who does their best.  However, that should include everyone....not just the average. 

Try to get an eighth grade reader, or history book from the late 1800's.  You will see how much we have lowered the bar to accomplish consistent mediocrity.

It's hard to inspire people to greatness, when you bore them to death with mediocrity.

Brent

Brent, I appreciate your concern for the lack of meaningful and challenging gifted education.  I have the same concern.  However, the problem cannot be solved by the general education teacher speeding up the classroom instruction.  It's a bit more complicated.  Gifted students are defined as performing at least 2 grade levels ahead in some subjects, and able to learn at a faster/more compressed rate than average classmates.  Studies also show that they perform much higher when grouped in homogenous grouping with other gifted kids.  Obviously, being together is more challenging, accepting and there is greater compatibility.  For these reasons it is impossible for the classroom teacher to serve these kids UNLESS they have experience with gifted instruction.  They can't just make things more challenging.  Gifted kids are wired differently (high speed access?) than average kids.  The average kids could not keep up.  When gifted kids are removed from reg. ed. classrooms higher level average kids rise to the top of leadership and perform higher grade wise.  Gifted education has pretty much gone down the toilet with school funding problems.  I have seen very good programs, however, in classrooms where the teacher knows how to run multi-level cluster groups within the classroom.  This method serves all students well.  As a teacher myself, I believe every child can and should learn; from the disabled to the superable and I have studied them all.  They are all valuable and significant to God.

my opinion and my research
me

I agree.  Sadly, the current education system is more focused on improving test scores.

Our sixth grader has a teacher who can do both, and Stephen and two other kids in the class basically are in a different school.  We are so thankful to her!

She told us that when the kids who are leaders are challenged and excited about learning, they bring the others up with them, generally speaking.

Brent

I read that when the  draft ended it really hurt our miltary because the lack of diversity of individuals working together.
I agree, we are in trouble on many fronts if we can't inspire the next generation.
I read that during his presidency Lincoln would show up at church services unannounced so the preacher would not patronize the President.  An aid once asked Lincoln what he thought of a sermon, Lincoln responded that the Preacher spoke well, pressed to what he really thought, Lincoln said that he was dissappointed and that "Gods word preached inspires mankind to goodness and greatness".
I agree with Lincoln, who also said, "this nation will only be as strong as the families in it"

June 12th:

I have two questions:

1.  How come when I logged on to the BB.
On the top of my computer screen it says:
The Assembly, George Geftakys - assemblyboard - Index


How come we are giving the BB, this idenity?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


2. This is just to generate discussion, nothing more.

When you apology?

When is an apology sincere.
With  or without conditions?

What is your opinion of what an apology is?

---------------------------------------------------------------

Lenore

 :)June 17th:

Hi everyone:

Was wondering if someone could help me out .

I was seaching the scriptures in the gospels, for the verses that shows, where the disciples of Jesus came back and was complaining of others preaching the gospel message, even though they werent part of the following of Jesus.

Jesus said "paraphrasing" that the message of the gospel is the most important, rather than the person who was presenting it. As long as the gospel was being spoken about.

I could find it could anyone give me a hand here.

Thanks.

Lenore

Mark 9:38-40 or Luke 9:49-50.

THANKS ALOT DAVE FOR YOUR HELP,  I APPRECIATE IT.

Lenore
=============================================

The Contemporary Parellel New Testament

Mark 9:38-40
NIV: WHOEVER IS NOT AGAINST US IS FOR US

Teacher said John 'we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us"

Do not stop him" Jesus said, "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me.

For whoever is not against us is for us.

VS: 41: I tell you the truth, anyone who give you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.

THE MESSAGE
John Spoke up. "Teacher , we saw a man using your name to expel demon and we stopped him because he wasn't in our group.
Jesus wasnt pleased. "Dont stop him, No one can use my name to do something good and powerful, and in the next breath cut me down. If he's not an enemy, he's an ally.
Why, anyone by just giving a cup of water in my name. Is on our side. Count on it that God will notice.

LUKE 9: 49-50 NKJV - JESUS FORBIDS SECTARIANISM

Now John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us"
But Jesus said to Him, Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us, is on our side.

July 15th:

Genesis 25: Verse 1 & 2

ABRAHAM AGAIN TOOK A WIFE, AND HER NAME WAS KETURAH.

AND SHE BORE HIM
ZIMRAN, JOKSHAN, MEDAN, MIDIAN, ISHBAK, AND SHUAH.

Then is verse 3 to 4 : it continues the offspring of Jokshan, and Midian.

Verse 5:
AND ABRAHAM GAVE ALL THAT HE HAD TO ISAAC.


Verse 7 to 10 talks about the death and burial of Abraham.

Verse 9: AN HIS SONS ISAAC AND ISHMAEL BURIED HIM IN THE CAVE OF MACHPELAH.....

Did you notice that it was ISAAC AND ISHMAEL that buried there father.

But Abraham had 6 other children.

I know that Isaac is God's choosen one, the gift from God.

Ishmael was product of Abraham doing at Sarah's insistence.

But the six children bore to him by Keturah, why were they not blessed the way
God promised of Isaac and even the blessings of Ishmael.

Has anyone else ponder the reasons for this?


Lenore

Happy Lord's Day of August 14th. Hope every one had a wonderful blessing today, assemblying with God People in House of God giving worship and thanksgiving to the one who Created us. And to the Saviour who gave his life willing for us to have Salvation and Eternal Life.


I was wondering .

Has anyone ever done a word study on particular subjects of the Bible.

Like using the Strongs  or Vine's Hebrew/Greek Complete Dictionary.

I recently looked up for an assignment for our Bible Study Homework on the meaning of the word 'WORD" It is amazing at the different meanings that have been assigned to this word.

It gives a better inside of the WORD OF GOD and the meanings of the passages that we are reading.

That is it for now.

SEPTEMBER 5TH

1 John 3: 9

' NO ONE WHO IS BORN OF GOD WILL CONTINUE TO SIN BECAUSE GOD'S SEED REMAINS IN HIM, HE CANNOT GO ON SINNING"


QUESTION:

What do you think this means?

Hi People of the BB.

Just having moved 19 days ago, and having to down sized from a 3 bedroom townhouse after 18 years to a small one bedroom senior apartment.

It has been an interesting adjustment, which I am still settling in.

One of the more challenging, was since I had order a new bed, and got rid of the older one, I had to wait 3 weeks for a bed.

I slept curled up on a love seat for three weeks. Between sleepless nights, oestoarthritis aches and pains resulting of the seat.

I learned that IT IS AMAZING HOW MUCH WE TAKE THINGS FOR GRANTED UNTIL WE HAVE TO DO WITH OUT IT.
When I got my bed last night, it was so nice to be able to stretch out to sleep.

MY QUESTION IS:

Have you ever learned a life lesson by the simplest teaching that has come your way? Even if you dont think it as a lesson at the time.

Nice talking to you

Lenore

Absolutely.  If we take Romans 8:28 to heart, we will realize that every situation in life comes with a lesson.  Several other Scriptures tell us that the Lord will teach us if we will only ask Him to.  Since we are constantly experiencing something, it seems a shame to let the days pass without learning from them.  There seems to be no limit to what we may learn if we are willing to be taught.

al

P.S.-- Glad to know you finally got your bed, Lenore! :)

January 11, 2006

Hi, how is everyone today.

Since the death of my sister in law, I have been wondering of a couple of things that maybe someone would have insight on?

I dont believe my sister in law was saved, when she suffered her anerysm early last Tuesday morning.

My questions are in two fold:
1. Do you think or believe that Jesus gives everyone a last thief on the cross type of chance, before death?

2. Is there any way you can tell, by looking in the face of the body, if a person has received Christ or not.  Whether they have a look like they are at peace in the presence of God.

I havent look into the face of very many dead people, and my sister in law is the closest relative that has died , since my grandparent 20 years ago.

I know I have talk to her and she rejected what I was saying years ago.

Since I dont know the heart of my sister in law in regards of her faith, I believe she is a lost soul, but ..................

If there is any insight I would be glad to hear it.

Lenore

Hi Lenore--

I'm so sorry to hear of your loss of your sister-in-law. A sudden unexpected death of a family member is very difficult. I've heard that people who have seizures, such as in epilepsy, often have a sensation or premonition that one is coming on. Maybe it's possible an aneurysm gives a similar warning that might have given your sister-in-law a chance to remember what you shared with her. Some people seem to be given a sense of their approaching death. We can trust that God is very merciful and knows how to reach someone even at the last moment. But we don't have certainty about anyone's eternal destiny (unless we know they were cursing God with their last conscious breath.) I think you have to live with that uncertainty, and be comforted that you shared with her.

The Lord bless you and comfort you.

Margaret

January 15th, 2006:

I have a series of questions dealing with the same subject.

Who puts you down the more as a Christian?

Is it other CHristians... out of those Christians, are they church goers?
Out of those church goers...are they from other churches, fellow worshippers, or family.

Is it non Christians...out of those non CHristians...are they acquaintances, close friends, family, or strangers.

What about those who have heard the word of God, professed the salvation of Christ in their lives, and then stagnate, not producing fruit of Spirit in their CHristian walking.
Professing not walking is what I am saying.

There maybe other variables to this questions on who...

The question is Who puts you down, put digs into you, condemns your practice of walking with Christ....even when their is not foundations to their put downs.

Any insight here ....???

Lenore

Lenore---

Surprisingly, in repsonse to your question I would have to say that there is this
one Christian who puts me down the most. I swear, he will literally come and
stand a few feet away and say such things as "You're a total failure!!"  "How
can you call yourself a Christian, you Hypocrit!! You think you represent Christ??!!
Give it up dude, you'll never be spiritual enough!! And you're fat and ugly too!!"

And because of this one guy I often feel I am being put down by others when it
isn't true at all. I have just become so used to hearing this one guy's voice, that I
think everyone else must be thinking that way too. When someone tries to help
me by being brutally honest I feel they MUST be saying it to hurt me. And it's all
because of that one guy--that one Christian that just won't leave me alone!! Strangely
enough he lives in the full length mirror right beside the front door. He always has a
few "comments"  for me before I leave, and what's too bad is that I listen to him some-
times instead of listening to the Word of God and what it says about who I am, and how
forgiven I am, and how much I am loved. I think if I just listened to the Word more I
would feel less and less that I am being "put down" for anything at all. But unfortunately,
that one accusing Christian likes to follow me around a lot and try to spoil my day. I think
I'm going to get rid of that mirror once and for all.

--Joe

Thank you Joe for your candor.

The person who puts me down the most, is the only other church goer in my family, the only other one who professes to be a CHristian , is my mother. My daughter Sara is a Christian and attends Church on a irregular basis.

This were I hear, keep your religion at home.
Even when there is no basis on her attach.

The situation was after my sister in laws funeral, I tried to even remember if I did anything or said anything to offend anyone.  Yet it was my mother who seem to be the most offended.
I even asked my daughter Sara, She said no mom, you didnt say or did anything to generate that type of attack.

Then as I disgust this with some one in my church, sometime you dont have to say anything, or do anything. Just by being a child of God standing on the faith, people can see that and be threatened by it.   If this is the case , I never thought of my self that way confidently.

Any on else have any insight on this question, experience this type of put down from a Christian family member, even though you had not done anything to warrant such an attack.

Lenore

March 27th:

THIS QUESTION CAN BE ANSWERED BY ANYONE, BUT DIRECTED TO BE ANSWERED EITHER BY TOM OR MARK?

I remember a year ago, about a conversation I had on BB, regarding the Holy Spirit.
If you recall the spirit was quite negative and strong felt.

My question in this regard is benigned I hope(?). Due to the fact my involvement with the assembly in Ottawa was limited to a few years. I am beginning to wander about something since that conversation a year ago.

DID GEORGE PREACHED AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Since the Holy SPirit(or Holy Ghost) is part of the trinity, then this was false preaching about the word of God. Those who dont believe in the Holy SPirit, as part of the trinity of God, still choosing to believe in that falseness.

There are so many passages that indicated that Holy Spirit is third person of God, the Counsellor, the Helper, the interceder, the one who groans for us interceding for us in prayer. It is so clear within the pages of the WOrd of God. How can anyone deny this person?

I am not accusing anyone, but I am just wondering if George preached against in believing the Holy Spirit essentially Holy Ghost.

Holy Ghost in King James Version,  Holy SPirit in the modern translations.
Holy Spirit is Biblical...

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.

Lenore

Lenore---

George never taught there wasn't a third person in the Trinity. George clearly taught
that God is in three persons: The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit. But what George
did do was to limit the working of the Spirit of God through legalism. Instead of teaching
that Christ is formed in us through Grace, he taught that was accomplished through many
works---thus the constant meetings, stewardships, etc. He sought to have works accomplish
what only the Holy Spirit can do, and thus the brothers and sisters houses were created to
"form Christ" in the faithful ones. He literailly was "quenching" the Spirit by his teachings, and
adherence to a staunch legalism, which did not allow music in worship, and denied that God
could heal or do miracles also.

When Paul asked the Galatians "Who has bewitched you?" he was referring to the same type
of teachings, which had led the Galatians away from the simplicity of the Gospel into a works-
based system that was enslaving them. They were allowing men to lead them instead of the
Holy Spirit---and that's exactly what we all allowed ourselves to fall prey to also while in the Assembly.

--Joe

DEAR JOE:

HAPPY EASTER:

THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTION!

As our Alpha Group is winding down with only one more week, and my Ladies Small Group Study has just finished Romans.

The importants of the Holy Spirit work in our lives is so sufficent. He prays for us when we dont have the words to pray. He guides us and teaches our spirit the will of God for our lives.
We can grieve Him when we allow sin to rule over us.
He fills us when we allow him to take the driver seat in our lives.

The gifts of the Spirit which is love , patient, joy, longsuffering, etc. which is stated in Galatians
our rewards for continuing to grow and maturing as a CHristian.

I find it amazing that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit was present when the world was formed in Gensis 1:1.

As a struggling Christian, this is important to know that God is in control, creator, and knows what best for me, and knows what I need, and loves me etc.

So thank you again Joe.

Lenore

DO YOU BELIEVE?

KNOWLEDGE IS EMPOWERMENT!