AssemblyBoard

Goodbye and God bless!
Verne                                                

Verne, very well stated.

Verne

I do believe you are right on the money.  However, there are still so many little lambs in that place.  I pray that they don't get hurt.  The Lord knows.  We do need to be in prayer for all of this.

Brent

I hope that repentence, if and when it comes, isn't the weak forgive me if I did anything to offend, and if I did let me know. That might be a good start, but it shifts the burden of proof, so to speak, onto the one who was wronged. In other words, if you don't name it(the sin(s)) I don't have to claim it. In my opinion this would be another example of damage control only, and just a caricature of repentence.

Hello Garth

2 overcomer points for that post.

Although I am in total agreement with points one thru 4, it is only point 5 that matters.

We shall see.

Brent

Sebastian, your post was right on.


My wife and I heard this too much.  Actually my wife got, "I'm sorry if I offended you."  That was better than what I got.  I think the workers all learn this sorry thing in order to avoid responsibility.

I can't see any scriptural, logical, or ethical reasons to attach the potentially restorative power of true repentence on the part of the leadership, in particular, to anything but obedience to God. It is simply the right thing to do whether or not the assembly continues and leaders lose their jobs. Let them obey God for once and then step down.

Hi alll, just wanted to take Eric statement one step further if I may.

The
Is not going to apply to a lot of things.  We all know that false witness/testimonys were made of people by not only leadership, but then continue by even the regular folk.  In other words I can 100% tell you right now that such and such said this about me, and if they were to give me the above line I would tell them in Love stop buying the lie and tell it to me like a man.

It is one thing to say something harmless and it offends someone, but a lot of these people know exactly how they offended.

Lastly for all you out there that said stuff to me personally and are reading this I have already forgiven you,  but there are MANY you still need to go to PERIOD!  Take this window of Grace God has given you and get your house in order.

Cheers and Lord Bless,
G

Hello George

Have you guys checked out this article?  It's the last one down the page the page on the website, under "Articles"

Forgive and Remember, and Forgiveness Distorted.

Check em out.


Brent

Hey Brent, thanks for pointing out those articles brother, they bring to light one thing in particular I did not see in these talks on forgiveness, even though not said I bellieve most knew.  

It is the point that just because you are forgiven, does not mean the consequences are taken away, or will cease (God is faithful).

To keep the example relative to this board and web site, David G. will for at least this lifetime have to deal with many consequences of his sins, even if he repents and humbly ask his family (especially Judy) for forgiveness.

Lord Bless everyone,
G

Hi Garth, you are correct!

When I was leading the campus ministry I also had to help a women having marriage problems, and I let her know she did not have to stay and allow things to contiue even though she had forgiveness in her heart.

Also I am so glad that my mother did not stay with my dad, or I might not have a little brother.

Forgive, but do not stay if things continue.  Also I understand if you have a VERY, VERY, hard time forgiving.

Lord Bless,
G

Regarding forgiveness, those who have been directly affected by abuse whether verbal, physical, or in other ways, tend to have difficulty in forgiving.  I know someone who was abused for many years and it took that person 10 years to finally forgive the abuser.  

I say this because, in the assembly, we were taught that to not forgive is a sin.  The abused were to forgive just as easily as anyone else.  (I presume this was Betty's teaching.)  In so doing, the assembly heaped guilt upon those who suffered the worst.  I don't claim to know God's perspective on this, but I do sympathize with those who have suffered and I believe God has abundant grace for those who have suffered.  God is able to gently lead someone to repentance.  I've seen it in my own life and in the lives of many others.

Why were we taught that to not forgive is sin?  And why were we taught that we must forgive no matter what, even if the offender doesn't ask for forgiveness nor stops doing the wrong?  Hmm...perhaps it was because George, Betty, et. al. had no intention whatsoever to stop abusing us.  On the contrary, the whole system they set up was intended to viloate us, knock us down and keep us there that they may drain whatever they could from us for their own purposes and then leave us for dead.  Reminds me of a vampire bat sucking the blood out of his prey, or a boa constrictor squeezing the life out of his victim before swallowing, or a what a spider does to a fly caught in his web.  "Step into my parlor", said the spider to the fly.
How did it feel to have the life sucked out of you slowly, day by day, under the watchful care of these "gentle shepherds" listening to their "life-transforming" messages?  Was your individuality really that important to you anyways?  It wasn't so bad, was it, to be robbed of the strength of your youth?

Now we hear there will be repentence?  Hah!  And I say it again, Hah!Repentence implies that they were good at one point and went astray somehow.  How can they repent for doing that which they purposed, set out, and always intended to do and have done for 30 years?  They are doing what is in their nature to do.  Could we tell a snake to repent and start acting like a mouse?  No, we all know what to do with snakes.

Arthur, wow, watch your tone, dear friend...Don't back folks into a corner, perhaps GG, BG, DG, et. al. will never respond - God knows - however, the innocent ones on the fence must see that folks are reaching out in love - tough love YES! direct and uncompromising YES! -but not in bitterness, ugly sarcasm, and a thinly veiled contempt.  

Perception is reality for everyone but yourself, manage that reality.

Love never fails.  I hope there is hope even for GG. If God COULD LOVE ME!!! when I was yet his enemy, how can we not but love and pity GG.  We love because He first loved us.  Love believes all things and yet love is not naive.

Lots of assembly folk are reading these threads on this site.  I saw my nephew, still in the assembly, "a guest" in December make a post in response to a very bitter account of some sordid history.  He inserted himself in the chat and rebuked the man for his words, which may have been true, but were lost in his ungodly manner and delivery..."This brother" lost an opportunity to impact a sincere audience.  He had knowledge, but had not love and therefore was but a clanging bell.

Your note will create the very defensiveness you would hope to avoid in these dear people.  Right now they are listening and they are open.  Remember in heaven before God's judgment of earth there was silence for what seemed an eternity - The Lamb stepped forward.  We must aspire to be worthy and innocent to usher in such sacred times of healing and refreshing from the Lord - Indeed, yes, redemption.  Let us put off hatred! If He be lifted up He will draw all men unto Himself.  Let's lift up Christ crucified in our midst - Christ crucified in us. Dead to hatred, bitterness, and despair.  Let's not return assembly to the assembly folk.

Yes, I believe we are to forgive those who sin against us, even those who have not asked for it.  If we only forgave those who sought it we'd be a fairly hellish, sorry lot since we'd be carrying a grudge with about 99% of the unbelievers in the world and about 90% of the church.  I've seen that kind of justice - It's disgusting and miserable.

Love you buddy, I feel your pain, I've been where you are at and could be in a moment if I were to relent...Be careful.  

If I'm missing something, I'd be glad to hear from you.

Blessings...BenJapheth.

There are some men for whom it is right to say things that I did (perhaps without the "Hah!"s, I agree).  The Bible doesn't make any qualms about the brood of vipers but calls them as they are.

But, you are right.  I was not being very thoughtful for those who may be still caught in the middle.  I wasn't referring to them.  I was directing it at those who know who they are.   Hopefully those in their clutches may get free.
I just now received a phone call from someone that I thought was gone asking for forgiveness.  I am blown away.  I...I just, I almost can't believe it, but man!  God is so good!  Hallelujah!  It's like my whole view on life just changed again.  There is goodness yet to be found out there.  

Authur, praise God that unlike those we are calling out to turn, you brother are an example of one willing to be entreated and open.  

I pray that the Grace that fell on you falls on all, including myself because we need it!

Lord Bless,
G

me?  example?  wha?  thanks George, but hey yeah that's it, huh?  The grace of God!  Otherwise we'd all be a puddle of bad news.
And now I am hopeful that his grace surely is greater than all the sin in this whole mess.  It is wonderful and amazing to behold!
 

Yes, I have read that before and remembered thinking, wow, that's heavy.  It is amazing what is found in the Bible. I think a lot of nice people have the tendency to be soft on people who do wrong, and that is not right.  On the other hand, Jesus said blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy.  And he said father forgive them..., do you think he was referring to the Pharisees, the Roman executioners, the nation of Israel, or all of humanity when he said that?
That psalm brought back memories.  Actually it is the main memory that I can't get out of my head and I still causes me grief to this day.  
When I came to live in Fullerton, I immediately became distraught over what I saw there.  I was very confused because I thought these were godly men since they preached from the Bible and for the most part it sounded good, but what I saw made me ill.  Before I came there I was so happy and so enjoying the grace of God that I was coming to learn about.  But now, I was in deep distress.  I read the Psalms and prayed so much that God would deliver me somehow.  I felt like Psalm 6,
I am weary with my groaning; all the night make I my bed to swim; I water my couch with my tears.  Mine eye is consumed because of grief; it waxeth old because of all mine enemies.
At times, I thought maybe it was my fault, maybe I was wrong, because these were my brethren and supposedly godly men, how could they be the wicked or the enemy?  But my subconscience told me that no, there is something wrong here.  I felt like Psalm 38, it gave me some comfort that David could feel this way too
 O lord, rebuke me not in thy wrath: neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.  For thine arrows stick fast in me, and thy hand presseth me sore.  There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin.  For mine iniquities are gone over mine head: as an heavy burden they are too heavy for me.  My wounds stink and are corrupt because of my foolishness.  I am troubled; I am bowed down greatly; I go mourning all the day long.  For my loins are filled with a loathsome disease: and there is no soundness in my flesh.  I am feeble and sore broken: I have roared by reason of the disquietness of my heart.  Lord, all my desire is before thee; and my groaning is not hid from thee.  My heart panteth, my strength faileth me: as for the light of mine eyes, it also is gone from me.  My lovers and my friends stand aloof from my sore; and my kinsmen stand afar off.  They also that seek after my life lay snares for me: and they that seek my hurt speak mischievous things, and imagine deceits all the day long.
I could not understand why God would not answer my prayers for deliverance.  I read so many Psalms were the Lord delievered the author.  e.g. Psalm 18:17 He delivered me from my strong enemy, and from them which hated me: for they were too strong for me.
So where was this deliverance? If I was right, and these men were treating me wrong, why were these men allowed to do what they did to me without God punishing them?  Looking back on it, I figure that God delievers in his own time, not when I want it, but that's a tough pill to swallow when your in the midst of the pain.  
Now, I'm free from their grasp, it's all in the open, and it turns out my suspicions were correct.  But the damage was done. I feel like my soul was fried like by an intense heat ray of wickedness. I went from being on top of the world to what felt like the depths of hell in less than a year.  I haven't been the same since.  Can you relate?

Yeah, Fullerton to me was like the hornet's nest, or more appropriately referred to as the pit of hell.  Some people seemed to like it there.  I couldn't relate.

Jeremiah 21:12  O house of David, thus saith the LORD; Execute judgment in the morning, and deliver him that is spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor, lest my fury go out like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

 If G&BG personal history indicates any kind of pattern it's if they can't fully control where they're at, they move to were they can.
 I ask 4 questions; How and should Christians do something to prevent others from being deceived by George ?
 Has George broken any laws in the United States and could he be  prosecuted ?

Dear Mark

Has George broken any laws?  Perhaps, but he is innocent, in the legal sense, until proven guilty in a court of law.

Judy could sue him.  Whether she does or not is up to her.

Also, all indications are that George, Tim, David, and others, misused the money they received as full-time workers.  If this is true, and the IRS decides to go after them, they could very well be prosecuted.

Also, the women that George abused also have a case against him.  Whether or not they choose to pursue it is their business.

There could very well be other things that have gone on, that have yet to come to light.  When it comes to people like Geftakys, "every evil thing is there."  However, we don't know about every-evil-thing, only a few:

Lying
Immorality
fraud
plagiarism.

There are many biblical things that have gone on, which don't result in criminal prosecution, but which should be dealt with in the church. That is why George, Betty and David have been excommunicated.

What is so frustrating, is that people are still hanging on to the old wineskin, claiming it is good, and "raised up from God," etc.

I am almost done with my work, but no one can stop these people from serving their idea of "Assembly."  They will have to experience the heartache that come when the skin is ruined, and the new wine is spilled, before it had a chance to mature.

Brent

 Brent,
It is mind boggling to know after all that has come to light that there are those who choose not to believe the truth.
  What a grip there must be on their flesh.
 I hope all things become revealed.
 Mark