AssemblyBoard

I was just thinking how terrible it would be if Kerry got elected.

I concluded that life will probably go on in much the same manner as it does now, and that I will be increasingly upset by what my government does, even as I am now.

Here is something for anyone who is interested to try.

The following quiz contains word for word portions of the major political parties' platforms.  Take the quiz and see which party you "really" belong to.

http://www.lp.org/issues/platform/compare/ (http://www.lp.org/issues/platform/compare/)

Brent

If kerry wins, I'll go on unemployment 6 months per year, and receive the money that the new administration will dish out. Get that plasma screen tv and drink beer, courtesy of uncle sam.  No tax, just relax.  If Bush wins, I'll build 4 spec homes next year and put a bunch of people to work.  Choices...choices.

Actually, your choices make plenty of sense except for one thing.

If Bush wins, you'll build your spec homes, employ people.....and then the Kerry supporters will sponge the taxes you all pay and sit at home drinking beer in front of the plasma screen.

Brent

November 02, 2004
Early Numbers Show Nearly 100 Percent Exit Polls
(2004-11-02) -- Early numbers from across the nation indicate that Americans are leaving voting precincts in huge numbers.

"While the mainstream media is abuzz with stories of huge voter turnout," said an unnamed pollster, "that's only half of the story. We're finding that as many people are going away from the polls as are coming toward them."

According to the source, preliminary results show more than 99 percent of voters exit polls.

A spokesman for the Kerry-Edwards campaign said the early figures bode well for the Democrat ticket.

"Sen. Kerry is a man with a plan and an exit strategy," the source said, "and his supporters are following his example today. Voters are moving in a new direction."

by Scott Ott

http://www.scrappleface.com/MT/archives/001906.html (http://www.scrappleface.com/MT/archives/001906.html)

Check out this map.

It wouldn't have looked much different if Kerry had won.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm)

When I see this, I can't help but wonder why Libs are so into public transportation and "affordable" housing?  Could it be that they want everyone in the same place so they are easily managed?

Brent

Thank God that Bush won. And thank God Kerry was gracious about it. I give Kerry credit for that.

Hugh

If I was a black single mom working at Wal-mart and Wendys to try and make a living with my kid at substandard schools, I would be concerned about affordable housing.  I don't think that liberal concerns are without merit.  Often the disagreement is on what the best solution is.

Yes, I agree.

Isn't it interesting that we have been socially engineering the "poor" community for several decades and a significant segment of it has become a permanent underclass?

During my childhood years, receptionists and secretaries could afford to by houses, and many families lived off one income.  That was before the government defined affordable housing and all the term meant was a smaller, less expensive house.

I was a single guy, working at an tire-store at one time, making minimum wage.  Then, I had to go door to door asking people if they wanted me to paint their address numbers on the curb.  I even did telemarketing while mired in over 80K of educational loans.

I had no help from the government and am debt free today?  How can this be?  I'm not bragging, or trying to convince anyone how hard I worked, etc.  It's just factual, and my story is no different than thousands, if not millions, of others.

Yes, the liberal concerns are valid.  However, their solutions seem to exacerbate the problem, rather than solve it.

I'm trying to identify a single Great Society, liberal program that has worked.....can someone help me out?  The liberals themselves tell us how many americans are hungry and homeless today, and the numbers keep growing...supposedly.

I do look forward with anticipation to Bush using his mandate to implement a true conservative agenda.  Apparently, he owes his victory to a record turnout of Christian Evangelical voters.  

Brent

I definitely intend to get a job one day. I have been slowly saving up money from the Welfare check I get each month and intend to buy a Lincoln Navigator to use to go job hunting. Well, I've got to go now--I want to go check the TV guide to see who's on Oprah today.

--Joe

     That's it in a nutshell:  Generally, there's nothing wrong with the liberals' concerns.  The problems are with their statistics and their "solutions."

Exactly!

What decent person doesn't want to help the poor, feed children, teach kids to read, etc.  How many times have you watched a World Vision film, or something like that, and not wanted to take one of the kids home?

However, the debate has been abandoned on this issue.  People now equate compassion with government.  If a government program is cut, whoever cut it is heartless.

Nothing could be further from the truth, and I find it sad that people on both sides have wholely adopted the mindset that we need to government to take care of us.

They think, "Without government, nothing good will happen."

Wrong, wrong, wrong.  

I hope the republicans cut just one program, even a little bit.  If they actually eliminated a single program, agency, or pork subsidy, I'd be willing to carry a sign.

Sadly, it has never been done.

Brent

Brent, I may be way off on this, but I think alot of times the church is alot of talk and no action. You probibly hav'ent been in need of government help at anytime in your life save for maybe a student loan. The church is'nt a bank, or a hospital. They can do a little to help in some areas but I dont see where they could step in and provide beds for invalids etc., does'nt seem possible. Yes they volunteer in areas, but its band-aid work on a bleeding artery. Also because you've been so blessed your able to help patients on a regular basis which is admirable. I'll give an example of recent request I made at the church I hav'ent been attending regularly I'd like your opinion on the counsel I recieved. I just asked for prayer regarding a car situation I have, trying to maintain 3 cars is getting costly and asking for prayer about selling one that I had saved for my son who just got his license 2 weeks ago. We discussed a few other things and said a quick prayer at the end of the conversation. He (the Pastor) said he'd prayer with me and asked me to write out where I was'nt in alignment with God's will for me. I really did'nt agree with this counsel. What do you think? Summer

How well do you know the pastor?  Or I mean to say how well does he know you?

Personally, I would get to know a person before I asked them to write down what part of their life wasn't in alignment with God's counsel.  

Are you a notorious sinner in this church?  Have your kids been arrested or anything?

Maybe you should sell the car and give the pastor the money? ;)

Sounds like not very helpful counsel to me.

Brent

Thanks Brent for responding. I thought it was strange council, and I hav'nt done it nor do I plan to. My daughter is Pres of christian club and does alot with the worship team there. Also my son is very involved in youth group. No arrests ever PTL. I think its a case if you have a finiancial need you must be out of Gods plan philosophy, plus being a single mom does'nt help. I've been going the past 2 years and up to this request have really liked the preacher. I told him I had'nt been recently as I was taking a break from church activities, so I think he was driving at that.  summer  p.s. to clarify what he said was, 'What I know of the word and where I'm not in Alignment with the word. (new concept to me as I thought that had to do with chiropractic and tires..

Summer,

     Girl, don't you know who Brent is?  You're just begging for a sermon on spiritual subluxation! ;D

     Seriously, I agree with the good doctor, that the pastor's counsel sounds a little fishy.  It's impossible to know, being this far from the stuation, but I think you made the right decision in not going along with it.

     There is a disease at large in the church today that makes financial difficulties symptomatic of spiritual problems.  The idea is not valid.  Personal finances may be the Lord's way of trying our faith, to show us His faithfulness and strengthen our faith.  Often the most bereft individuals are the most generous (think of the widow's mite), while the "fatcats" are prospering at the expense of others.  When the Lord said "By this shall all men know that you are my disciples," He didn't mention prosperity.

Praying with you,
al

If Bush wins, you'll build your spec homes, employ people.....and then the Kerry supporters will sponge the taxes you all pay and sit at home drinking beer in front of the plasma screen.

Brent

Well, I got 8 houses in 3 states on the drawing board.  There's also a 10 story low-cost condo project in San Francisco I've been recently asked to work on, thanks to the Bush victory.  It appears safe now to feel optimistic about construction, provided interest rates and inflation remain fairly low.  Building homes is fun and rewarding.  The tough part is paying the high taxes after the sale if a significant profit occurs.  I could be wrong, but based on personal experience I think the price of houses will go down as the supply increases as a result of further tax reductions.  If Kerry won, I would NOT be doing any of this because I and half the population would be too busy worrying about losing the day job and going on unemployment.  So, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank those who voted for Bush:  Thank you!

I know some of you wish that Kerry had won. Well in the spirit of Free Trade we offer you a solution. Move to Canada. We are liberal thinkers here and would welcome you with open arms. I know because as a Bush supporter I feel like a fish out of water up here.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1099581616097_94990816/?hub=Canada

Hugh ;D

Here are some lessons I brought away from this long, long election:

1.  A strategy that is fueled by vengence and based upon winning at any cost and repeating allegations over and over and moving propaganda into mainstream almost worked, but by God's benevolence, it didn't.

2.  I think since there is no question about Bush winning this election, the sense of "being ripped off" is gone and we may see a strategy in 2008 thought through by cooler heads.   Maybe not, but if Demcrats can move from whining and blaming others to actually thinking honestly about why they lost, they may have a great chance in four years.

3.  We vote our fears - the fear of what we think our society may become if the other guy wins.  When we get afraid, we often get mad and nasty.  I saw this in myself and found I had to back away.  I don't think Jesus would want me to get so bound in politics that I begin to think of people in my community as "the enemy".  Lots of soul searching for me.

4.  The young vote is still a mystery.  I thought F-911 was going to energize the young vote in the same way a GG seminar energized young, impressionable college students.  For some reason, it didn't happen as expected (I wonder if people just got tired of F-911 by the time it hit the DVD market).  On the other hand, local residents voted for the Republican county commissioners.  WHen adding in the college vote, it swung it to a Democratic majority.  In essence, our new county commissioners were elected by people who don't live here. (How this plays out in local politics is property rights vs. scenic area issues.)

5.  Nasty, cheap victories produce a backlash.  1)  The Massachusetts judge who ordered gay marriage in fact produced a great response at the polls by those who wanted to vote against gay marriages - this worked in Bush's favor and some argue it won him the election.  2)  A British newspaper started a letter writing campaign of Brits writing folks in a key county in Ohio telling them why they should elect Kerry.  This basically ticked the Americans off and this was the only county in Ohio that swung from Democrat to Republican.

6.  I know we say it so often, it almost becomes a cliche, but it is true.  The Lord is our ultimate hope.  The way he is going to organize and administrate heaven will surprise and awe people in both parties by its very "rightness".  

We have the same thing here.  I think it's endemic to every college town.  

For years, a Cal Poly professor was the mayor, now he's a city councilman, with further political aspirations.

Our congresswoman got the job when her congressman husband...a college prof...died mid-term.

It is interesting that many elections in college towns are driven by people who don't live in the community for very long.

---

I think we have a defining moment in history over the next year or two.  What is our president going to do? The right thing, I pray.

I am glad that it appears we are going to pound Fallujah.

Brent

Hugh,

     That article would be hilarious if the whole thing were not so pathetic.  Losing those losers to Canada, but you northern saints have been so supportive of us that I couldn't bring myself to wish such a fate upon you. ;)

al

Did this really happen?! You mean to tell me that after all this time the Brits still don't know any better than to keep their grubby paws off American affairs?  :)


I felt a strange disinterest in this election cycle. I cannot say that I am unhappy that Bush won. He knows how to  hold on to one wife and that counts a lot with me.
There was a time in American society when this used to count for something but not anymore. Even  Christians today are as lilkely to have indulged in serial marriages as non-believers.
Whatever happened to the power of godliness as a distinguishing feature of those who know Christ?
I think the answer is obvious.
I still do not think Bush represents the economic interests of the middle class but be that as it may, I do appreciate his interest in giving the small business entrepeneur (which I am) a break but this cannot be at the expense of working people who have after all provided all the economic gains of the past eighteen months in the form of increased productivity.
Your observation about the Lord's sovereign rule is encouraging.
I am unsure whether Bush's victory represents blessing or sanction...time will tell...
Verne

     The Dems have plenty of time to redeem themselves, but they are going to have to make being "winners" secondary to being Americans, and if there are any Christians among them, those had better make Americanism secondary to their faith.  Politically, they need to see how out of sycn they are with mainstream America, and take the necessary measures to bridge the gap.  Pundits who have been reading the mores and methods of big-city-dwellers as being representative of the nation's standards have been given a wake-up call-- If they hit the snooze button, then they are in for four more years of liberal error and the consequent erosion of their party.

     While the Republicans have gained ground throughout the country, much of that has been by default-- a knee jerk reaction to liberal extremes, or simply a choosing of the lesser of evils.  They, too, need to take the pulse of Joe Citizen and get in step with the people.


     Absolutely 100% on the money, Dave.  Each of us must realize that Jesus Christ called us to HIMSELF, to be vessels of His glory: a living testimony of His mercy, grace, and glory, and not just to be better Americans.  We must always remember that YOU & I may be the ONLY gospel some people ever hear or see!


     The Lord IS our ultimate hope; our ONLY hope!  When we say it, repeatedly, we are obliged to continually, consciously engage personally, one-on-One with the Lord, praising His greatness, thanking His mercy, receiving His grace, and asking His blessing to keep it (Himself) a reality in our lives, our LIVING hope, so that it never becomes reduced to the impotence of cliche.

Thanks, Dave, and God bless us all,
al

Verne,

I am interested as to why 89% of the AfricanAmericans voted Democrat and only 11% voted Republican.  Is there some sort of 'tradition' or something??

Marcia

P.S.
Interesting that Bush won despite Moore and F9/11 and despite the economics related to the war in Iraq, and despite all those celebrities pro-Kerry stance, and despite Ahnold sanctioning embryionic stem cell research, and despite the same-sex marriage issue.  The Republicans acquired more seats in the house and in the senate as well.

MM

An interesting (and loaded) query Marcia. Don't ever let anyone convince you that any one Black person can speak definitively for the community at large.
I will hazard the opinion that while the vast majority of Blacks (cetainly the sucesssful ones I know) hold conservative views and values, no Black person in his right mind would want to be affiliated with the standard bearers of this organisation.
Whether a J.C Watts or a Colin Powell, these good ole' boys will play you like a fiddle.

I am looking forward to seeing how Obama handles himself in that all-white enclave called the senate... :)
After I personally expressed my own admiration for his predecessor (former Republican senator Peter Fitzgerald) he tried to get me involved in Republican politics. As much as I love the man and would probably have campaigned for him personally, I told him no "no dice" . I don't carry labels, political or otherwise, well at all I am afraid. I find them  supremely counter-intuitive and rather shallow.
The principles expounded by the Republican Party are for the most part admirable, the practice is entrely another matter. Think hypocrisy.
Does anyone doubt that the conduct of these folk when in power is nothing but a remarkably shameless pandering to corporate interests and the well-being of primarily the wealthiest Americans? There was more pork-barrel spending in this budget (8 billion) than in anything any Democratic president ever submitted.
Dick Cheney's former cronies have been given a blank check to be drawn on the labor or the American taxpayer. I trust the Justice Department will do its jab but I seriously doubt it.
The system survives on ignorance and apathy.
As someone stated, while the Democrats fall short of viable solutions for what ails the underprivileged and down-trodden in this society, at least they make a show of caring.
Cany you really blame Black folks for voting what they think their best interests?
Most thoughtful Black folk look to neither of these players for answers I can tell you that much. Most Black republicans ( I  did not say all) unfortunately have little or no credibility with the community at large. There are good reasons...
Verne
p.s. Coming from a a completely different social paradigm (in the Caribbean), I must admit that my perspective will probably vary widely from soemone of African ancestry born and raised in this country so caveat emptor!  

I don't speak for a large segment of the black population.... ;)....but,

I do know the pastor and his wife of the "black" church in SLO.  He is a great guy, loves the Lord, and has a sweet family.

Interestingly, he's a lifelong democrat as is 99% of his church.  When I discovered this, I was surprised.  Over the years, I had an opportunity to ask him why he was a democrat, and did it conflict with his values?

His answer really helped me see through my republican thinking.  He said that the democrats are the party of the little guy, the working man,etc.  In his mind, republicans were all about the rich, and corporations.

I could tell by his answer that there was no point engaging him, he believed this with his whole heart.  It meant so much to him that democrats looked after the average guy, that he didn't notice the social debauchery that the party promoted. It didn't matter, because they were better than republicans.

This helped me to ponder if perhaps I had some blindness in my republican views, which of course I did.

So, for some reason, the vast majority of the black, evangelical population of San Luis Obispo is convinced that the Democrats are better than republicans.

It is interesting, and there is something to be learned here, as I am convinced that many people are entrenched in one party or the other, without giving it much thought.

Brent

When you take a long hard look at the legislative agenda of the two parties Brent, this opinion is entirely understandable. I think many of these folk have subordinated what some might consider their spiritual and moral priorities to one that is economic.
I will tell you a little secret...so have the Republican leadership...if you look closely...
Verne

So...let me get this straight: all libs are Black people who are on welfare?  Wow...sounds like a racist generalization to me...I know lots of liberals who are not on welfare.  My grandfather-a liberal-was a carpenter who supported ten kids and my gtandmother without any support from the government.  My mother-another liberal-has worked to support her family most of her life.  That's one thing I do not like about people who profess to be Christians...they seem to be the most racist people in the world!

Please be patient with Joe Eulaha. He has a very wry sense of humor and I know he did not intend in that post what it sounds like. I know firsthand a lot of our melanin-free brethren have to be educated regarding matters of racial sensitivity. You and I have both been there...done that... :)
Verne

p.s. It does illustrate the great danger of employing stereotpes...even in jest...

And as far as living off of Welfare: in my community, the largest Welfare grant is only $355 for a single person, and $455 for a family.  You can't save money living off of Welfare to buy even a used vehicle, and definitely not a plasma television!  And...the average person who needs Welfare is only on the public dole an average of 2 years.  Why don't you do your homework instead of stereotyping people who may need some governmental assistance?  Who knows...one day it may include YOU.

Excellent point. When it comes to a scandalous wasting of taxpayer's money, it is truly remarkable the number of ignoramuses who have bought the notion that it is all attributable to money spent on the indigent, whether through well-fare or any other such programs...
Verne

The greatest wastes of taxpayers' money are:

1.)social security
2.)Medicare
3.)The "War on Drugs."

Welfare, while a miserable failure of a program, is further down the list.

Another debateable expenditure is foreign aid.  It is more complicated than plain old waste however.

Brent

I agree with this list. I would have actually put payment of interest on the Federal debt as number one in terms of wasteful spending.
The fact that we are now a debtor nation and would have to declare bankruptcy without foreign investment is one of the most under-reported stories of our time.
We literally owe more than we are worth!
I am planning on moving to Tortola before the bubble breaks... :)
Verne

p.s If you think those corrupt and despicable politicians don't have their eyes on the trillions in your pension funds, IRAs and other deferred compensation accounts you are dreaming. I advise everyone to take the tax hit and move it out of their reach at least five to ten years before your actual retirement. A word to the wise...

For those who may be unaware, welfare checks cross melanin/melanin-free boundaries.

It is extremely difficult for a single mother to support herself and her children, especially if they are under school-age.  Hitting the checkbooks of the fathers of the children on welfare, would greatly reduce the amount of money spent on welfare and help to remove some of the scapegoating attitude that the mothers on welfare bear.

My fellow Americans, and Canadians  ;) !

  It is quite true, as someone on this thread posted, that we don't get what we think we are getting when we vote either party.

  We think we are going to get a strict adherence to certain principles, but instead we get compromise.  I wouldn't call this "hypocrisy" because life in a pluralistic society necessitates some give and take.

  The fact that Bush does not face election means that he can avoid some of this compromise and try to get some of his principled positions into policy.  Still, all legislation will have to go through Congress, and as such some compromise.

  Christians will ultimately be disappointed as government can not make people reject abortion, support liberation of Iraq, make sound economic decisions, or anything else.  

  As to the deficit and the National debt:  The claim that we are facing bankruptcy because the dollar amount is the highest it's ever been is not a correct way to look at it.  

  You must look at the debt level as a percentage of the GNP (gross national product) and it is lower today than it was in the past (under Reagan, for example, the debt ratio was much higher than today).   Though we may decide to move with Verne to Tortola ( Can I come?  ;)) the nations ecomonic situation is very strong.

  If you fear a bubble bursting I would recommend buying gold (hit $434. on Fri. and heading to $450. soon.) vs. real estate in the British Virgin Islands. (Disclaimer: trading futures involves risk  ;))

  Our taxes are wasted in ways that would boggle our minds, if we only knew.  Did you know that there are more employees in the Fed. Agriculture dept. than there are farmers?!!  All this and they still can't produce an accurate report of how much grain we produce!! >:(  (a present disgruntled grain trader  ;))

  As a middle class working guy (Teamster) I was very happy to get my tax rebate and the additional $100 every week in my check this past year.  The Union upped my dues, so you can probably figure where my affections may lie.

        God bless America (boy do we need it). The feeling very whimsical--------------------  Mark C.

I understood that Joe was stating that a liberal mindset enables people to be dependant on the welfare system rather than otherwise.  It was not a statement that all libs are blacks who are on welfare.

Rather, it was me (an ignorant Canadian) that was curious as why blacks traditionally voted Democrat.  Verne and Brent have enlightened me on that matter.

Thanks to all.

God bless you Eulaha. :)
Marcia

Some of you may remember George Bush Sr. talking about how Managed Care (HMO's) was going to reform and "fix" the healthcare system in America.  George Bush Sr. took millions from HMO's and dutifully passed their agenda in his administration.

Here is what happened:

An HMO is NOT, repeat NOT and insurance company.  Therefore, they are not regulated by insurance laws, neither are they accountable to the Department of Insurance.  

In a brilliant, yet sneaky play,  Republicans passed tough INSURANCE legislation, while at the same time opening the doors for the HMO's to have an unfair advantage over insurance companies because they didn't have to follow the same rules.

HMO's are and were a total disaster.  No one raped the healthcare dollar the way HMO's did and still do.  It got so bad that I totally quit insurance in my practice....I won't play the game, neither will I deal with this sort of corruption.

I certainly do not agree with all of the many complaints the left has of the Republicans, but there certainly is merit in their claim that Republicans are the party of Corporate Greed, at least in the area of Healthcare.

The good news is that HMO's are so hated, and are so damaging our healthcare system, that there is a strong possibility that we will soon be returning to old-fashioned point-of-service healthcare, and pay with cash.  This is happening every where, and the trend is well under way.

Brent

Brent, Interesting I'm glad your not putting up with that non-sence. Don't forget Doctors get Bonuses and kick-backs for not referring patients for crucial tests. Having worked for Doctors for about 10 years(I'm in a new field now) I remember one Physician saying "Dont get Sick" as hospital orders were coming in as we were closing and with a stack of RX's to call in many that would only be covered for a month or two and then they'd change coverage for a limited period of time. It was ridiculous I'd been quite spoiled working in private paractices. Needless to say I did'nt stay on there, could'nt play that game either. Summer.

Marines turn to God ahead of anticipated Fallujah battle
Sat Nov 06 2004 09:37:17 ET

NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq, Nov 6 (AFP) - With US forces massing outside Fallujah, 35 marines swayed to Christian rock music and asked Jesus Christ to protect them in what could be the biggest battle since American troops invaded Iraq last year.

Men with buzzcuts and clad in their camouflage waved their hands in the air, M-16 assault rifles laying beside them, and chanted heavy metal-flavoured lyrics in praise of Christ late Friday in a yellow-brick chapel.

They counted among thousands of troops surrounding the city of Fallujah, seeking solace as they awaited Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi's decision on whether or not to invade Fallujah.

"You are the sovereign. You're name is holy. You are the pure spotless lamb," a female voice cried out on the loudspeakers as the marines clapped their hands and closed their eyes, reflecting on what lay ahead for them.

The US military, with many soldiers coming from the conservative American south and midwest, has deep Christian roots.

In times that fighting looms, many soldiers draw on their evangelical or born-again heritage to help them face the battle.

"It's always comforting. Church attendance is always up before the big push," said First Sergeant Miles Thatford.

"Sometimes, all you've got is God."

Between the service's electric guitar religious tunes, marines stepped up on the chapel's small stage and recited a verse of scripture, meant to fortify them for war.

One spoke of their Old Testament hero, a shepherd who would become Israel's king, battling the Philistines some 3,000 years ago.

"Thus David prevailed over the Philistines," the marine said, reading from scripture, and the marines shouted back "Hoorah, King David," using their signature grunt of approval.

The marines drew parallels from the verse with their present situation, where they perceive themselves as warriors fighting barbaric men opposed to all that is good in the world.

"Victory belongs to the Lord," another young marine read.

Their chaplain, named Horne, told the worshippers they were stationed outside Fallujah to bring the Iraqis "freedom from oppression, rape, torture and murder ... We ask you God to bless us in that effort."

The marines then lined up and their chaplain blessed them with holy oil to protect them.

"God's people would be annointed with oil," the chaplain said, as he lightly dabbed oil on the marines' foreheads.

The crowd then followed him outside their small auditorium for a baptism of about a half-dozen marines who had just found Christ.

The young men lined up and at least three of them stripped down to their shorts.

The three laid down in a rubber dinghy filled with water and the chaplain's assistant, Navy corpsman Richard Vaughn, plunged their heads beneath the surface.

Smiling, Vaughn baptised them "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit."

Dripping wet, Corporal Keith Arguelles beamed after his baptism.

"I just wanted to make sure I did this before I headed into the fight," he said on the military base not far from the city of Fallujah.

That is a superb example of the kind of prostitution to corporate greed that I am talking about. There are countless others. People who make the argument in favor of a totally unregulated free market system are both hypocrites and liars, or worst, complete idiots and have no clue about human nature.
An even more dangerous trend is what is happening in the world of technology and particularly in the field of genetic engineering. Monsanto and a few other companies have been quietly going about the taks of securing patents on all kinds of grains.
They have had the gall to go into other countries where unique strains exist and attempted to seek exclusive patent rights with the resulting authority to levy a fee for local farmers growing produce!
Ridiculous?
There are current farmers using certain strains of corn who are now allowed to re-seed from the previous year's harvest but are required to pay again for their seed product.
It is the ultimate aim of corporate entities to not only completely dominate the life of the workers who produce the goods, but to also completely dominate the means of production. When this kind of savage avarice extends to something as basic as food, the implications are indeed ominous in my opinion.
Verne

I am glad these men are finding Christ. As the saying goes, there are no atheists in foxholes.
I am more than a little uncomfortable with the idea that this is some sort of holy war sanctioned by God Himself, and that America has some sort of moral imperative to achieve its ends, whatever they may be. I am praying for our troops.  
I am however, not prepared to take God's name in vain.
Verne

I disagree with you here, to an extent.  Markets should be free from regulation....and they should also be free from criminal behavior, including monopolistic practices.  

Free markets are a fundamental cornerstone of freedom,  I won't waver on this principle.  However, along with a free market must come impartial laws that insure that trading can take place in an equitable manner.  God hates a dishonest scale.

However, what Mises, or Friedman calls a free market is a far cry from the regulated mess we have today.

Verne, be careful when you call someone an idiot or hypocrite before you find out what they mean by "Free Market."  I don't think there has ever been such a thing as a totally unregulated free market.  A possible exception could be the illegal drug trade, but even they regulate their competition with violence.

I am a supporter of the merits of Free Market Capitalism.  It's an ungodly system that runs on greed and self-=interest, but it's better than the other ungodly systems out there.

Brent

Check out the governmental regulation in the form of "capping" the profits by Hillary Clinton.

www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_101404/content/institute.guest.html

Strong language I admit. I was thinking of what happened with the Resolution Trust Corp. My guess is that most people have already forgotten about that.
You are of course right that a commercial environment free from burdensome governmental oversight is indeed a cornerstone of any thriving democracy.
Becacuse of the undue influence of vested interests in the legislative process, we have difficulty keeping the balance you cited in this country and elsewhere.
Of course what Putin is doing in destroying Yukos illustrates the extreme levels of abuse possible on the other side of the coin. We are in no danger of that here in my opinion.
Verne

P.S Did you hear about the way mutual fund companies have been screwing their shareholders with their skimming of profits and after-hours trading? A man like Elliot Spitzer is rarer than rubies because so many government officials view their position as a stepping stone to the gravy train of corporate largesse. Look at the contemptible conduct of the FDA's pimping for the pharmaceutical companies! Former president George Bush and his entire cabinet is on the Saudi payroll. It is enough to make you puke. I could go on ad nauseam about what happens in the face of weak or ineffective oversight in a "free-market" environment.

ELLIOT SPITZER FOR PRESIDENT!

If you must own mutual funds buy from T. Rowe Price.
They are squeaky clean.

ELLIOT SPITZER FOR PRESIDENT! :)

Yep, this is exactly why the government should stay out of healthcare.

First of all, the flu-shot, at best, is 14% effective in preventing the flu.  At worst, you will die from your flu-shot.  It is senseless for the government to mandate flu-shots, as they could be made available to those who "really" need them, as any other drug is.  (It is a worthy debate as to whether anyone should get a flu-shot, but it really doesn't matter in our context here.)

Secondly, by interfereing with the market, the government made it very unattractive for any company to get involved with making a flu-shot----hence our current shortage.  (Again, I actually see the shortage as a blessing...but that's another story.  Please don't believe that you need a flu-shot....you don't)

Here's another little HMO/Insurance/Pharmaceutical story.  Did you ever wonder why persciption drugs are so expensive if you have to pay cash, but can be had on the cheap if you have an HMO with a persciption drug benefit?  

The Pharm guys sit down with single malt Scotch, and some good cigars with the HMO guys and they talk.  The Pharm guys say,  

"If you agree to only authorize the use of our drug,  IE Celebrex instead of Vioxx,  or Lipitor instead of Zocor, we'll let you have the drugs for cheap.  This means you can increase your membership by selling a small co-pay for perscription drugs, which will scare people into buying your HMO product.  Since we'll be giving you the drugs so cheap, you save money....but you must only use our drugs.  Deal?"

The HMO guy then says,  "sounds good, but it won't increase our membership that much unless the benefit seems really important.  Our satisfaction surveys tell us that most of our members hate us.  Wait, I know....inflate the price of the drugs so high that no one can afford them unless they have our HMO product...then they have no choice, they will have to join up."

Both guys shake hands and say,  "Deal."

Then one guy gets nervous and says,  "Is this legal?  Couldn't this be interpreted as unfair practice, or a violation of some law or something?"

One of the Pharm lawyers says,  "Well, we have some good contacts in congress, and a few paragraphs were added at the tail end of an education bill a few months back that make it OK for us to do this.  We can change the price depending on who's buying, and we won't be in violation of HCFA, as everyone else would be, so yes, we've got this covered."

"To Evil, gentlemen!  The Deal is done!  When are those girls coming over?"

Some of you may know that doctors can't charge one person one fee, and another person a different fee for the same service.  It is a federal offense for me to charge a senior citizen more money for an adjustment that a person who is only 64.  However, an HMO can charge one person 250 dollars for a drug, and another person 11 dollars for the exact same perscription, due to republican legislation.

Am I saying the Democrats are going to "fix" this?  Nope, not at all.  Their solution is to loot money from the HMO's and insurance companies, and then institute socialized medicine, which would be even worse.

The whole thing would calm down and start working again, if the government kept its filthy hand off and let the market regulate itself.

The epitome of this can be seen with Laser Eye Surgery, and Plastic Surgery, which are both elective, non-insured procedures.  The price has gone down for these services, while everything else in medicine has gone up.  Furthermore, people are able to finance the procedures which make them even more affordable.  There is no reason this couldn't happen in the rest of medicine, but it would mean that people could no longer loot and mooch off the system.

Much more could be said about this, and it is this first hand knowledge that I have that worries me about republicans.  Of course, I am not worried, but horrified by Dems...they're worse, make no mistake about it.

Brent

Someone would need good quality inside information about Yukos executives to know whether they deserve it or not.  I certainly don't presume to know.  Russia does have a serious problem with organized crime.

The power scam in California is evidence of organized crime in our own country.  There are probably more criminal companies among us.  They probably network and work together on their schemes; perhaps even Yukos is part of the network.

To say nothing of Enron and Global Crossing.
I am reading a book by James A Scudder and he is one of very few students of prophecy that I have heard make the claim that America is the Babylon depicted in Revelation and whose destiny is destruction. Most of them point to the Catholic church.
He makes a powerful case that when one considers the kind of economic influence wielded by the nation described, and the global perturbation and consternation  that ensues from its demise, no other nation even comes close to fitting the bill.
Soberng is it not?
Here is my question - would you consider God unjust if what is described as being in store for Babylon in the apocalypse was indeed our destiny?
If you believe Scudder to be correct, how would it change the way you live and your plans for the future?
Verne
p.s You only have to take a brief look at Yukos' actual reported revenues Steve and then take a look at the tax bill to conclude that they are being sent a message. I am not making the case at all that they are not quilty of something, but that political intrigue is a component of all this is undeniable.

I have heard this theory before, and it has merit in the sense that America is certainly guilty of "Babylonian" behavior.  However, we just don't know if we are it.

One thing I find interesting is that whenever someone comes up with a new idea regarding prophecy, it is often met with scorn.  The fact is, someone is going to be prophetic Babylon...

I am somwhat taken aback by the number of people who view George W. Bush's election as being somewhat like the reign of Josiah.  I know he is a good man, with sincere faith (that's what we're told, with no one to discredit it...most likely true) but I really don't see him leading the nation into a revival.  

I pray that he does move aggressively and succesfully to a conservative agenda, but I don't think that political reforms translate into morals or godliness.

I am convinced that the next two years are going to be incredibly interesting and monumental in the historic sense.

I'm still really happy that we didn't get Kerry.

Brent

    Soberng-- Is that a city somewhere in Scandanavia? ;D

---

    I believe myself correct in thinking that by "our destiny" you refer to that of the nation and not that of the saints.  Regardless, any child of God who considers God unjust for any reason has some serious issues to take care of.  Immediately.  
"God unjust" is an oxymoron to the nth degee.

---

    I heard a story, purportedly true, from the pulpit many years ago that made a deep impression on me:  Some seminarians were playing billiards in the lounge of their dormitory following the day's classes, when the question arose, "What would you do if you knew for certain that the world would end 24 hours from now?"

     Immediately one said that he would shout the gospel from the rooftops, compelling sinners to come to Christ.  Another declared that he would contact all his family and friends who were not saved and urge them to receive Christ.  In turn, each had similar ideas until, at last, there was only one who had not answered.  (The preacher who told this said this last student went on to become a great man of God, but I was a new Christian at the time, so the name meant nothing to me.  The story impressed me, but I don't remember who the principal character was.)

     As all eyes turned to the last student, he proceeded to line up his shot, saying, "I would finish this game."

     It struck me as odd, even wrong, until the story teller explained that, while all the others felt they had been slack, having left work undone, this one man lived a life of obedience to Christ, caring to see that his every deed and word were in the will of God.  He was shooting billiards at this hour, not to escape reality, but because his life was caught up, on schedule, and this was time the Lord had given him for recreation.


     I wish I could tell you that I am that faithful.  But I can say that it is my desire and goal to walk in such a way.  I think, and sincerely hope, that the crashing of God's justice upon the nation in which I dwell could only intensify my desire to please Him.  May it be so with us all...

al

No Al; This is what you do after a night of inebriation.  ;D
Verne

I thought about this, and decided that I would be really frightened if this were the case.  I'd probably talk to my family and friends, but more than anything else, I'd want to make ammends with anyone I thought I had wronged.

Actually, I make that a practice right now too.

It's going to be awesome, terrible and frightening when this world comes to an end, and I wonder if anyone who expresses anything other than fear and trembling is living in reality?

When you get right down to it, I guess we would all respond in the same way we have in the past when we see an urgent need.

Some break down and cry,  others rage, others take action and keep a cool head....hopefully, by God's grace we would respond in a way that glorifies Him.

Since we're on the topic, I must confess that questions like this really peeve me.  I have hear certain pious utterings from time to time, but one that particularly irritates me is,  "We should all live like Christ could come at any minute."

Nonsense! Jesus Himself said don't worry about tomorrow. If we managed to convince ourselves into believing that He was actually coming today, would you pay your bills?  Would you go to work?  Would you mow the lawn (Assuming it wasn't part of the 1/3 that got burned up in an earlier plague.)?

There is no chance I'd do anything normal if I KNEW the world was coming to an end.  What's the point?

Instead, we should be faithful people and seek to occupy until He comes.  This means showing up on time for work, being kind and generous, standing for the faith, and planning responsibly for our futures.

If I knew Jesus was returning on April 16th, I probably wouldn't pay my taxes on the 15th.....or maybe I would...it doesn't matter, the mail would never make it anyway.

Brent

Terrifying indeed Brent. Meeting the Son of God for many will not be a happy occasion. Even the beloved disciple, who arguably knew greater intimacy with the Lord than any who has ever lived, fell at His feet as one dead. I believe the apostle John was a holy man.
Where does that leave us?
Nevertheless, my hope is the scriptural promise that we we shall see Him as He is for we shall be like HIm!
Shivers me timbers it does... :)
Verne

Canada is a great place to buy lumber.  I plan to buy most of my lumber there and truck it down here in order to avoid the high prices at US lumber yards.  The liberals down here have helped mess of the lumber industry due to their odd passion for trees and their desire to hug them.  It's ironic that Canada has so many liberals, yet permit vast harvesting of their forests.  Perhaps  if we can get the US liberals to misconstrue a forest as a helpless unborn baby, we'll see a bonanza in forest clearcutting and reduction in lumber prices.

You're on a roll Dan.  I never thought of it that way.  What sick, sick thinking.  

Brent

Dan,

Here in the USA we have made the mistake of campaigning against enviro-Nazis on the basis of freedom, jobs and the fact that there are more trees in the lower 48 states today than there were when Columbus arrived.  These things mean nothing to the enviro-whackos.

More trees than when Columbus arrived?  Yes.

In Daniel Boone's day there were buffalos in Kentucky and Tennessee.  That's because the eastern great plains extended that far in those days.  you see...the indians liked steak and roast.  Deer and buffalo.  Grazing animals graze where there is grass, not trees.

They made more open land by setting the forest on fire regularly!   :o

When I was in Canada last summer, we visited a place called "Head Smashed In Buffalo Jump."  It was a cliff where the "Original Environmentalists" drove entire herds of buffalo over the cliff, took what they wanted, and then let the wolves, coyotes, and crows eat the remaining tons of rotting meat.  Early fur trappers said that you could smell those places forty or fifty miles downwind.

So, the modern tree huggers sit in their New York and San Fransisco apartments and cry when they think about the "Old Growth" forests being cut down. (they don't know that trees get old and die just like everything else except for government programs)

We need to campaign for lumbering on the basis of a "Lumberjack's Right to Choose."

BTW, Canada has bazillions of trees, so I suspect the lumber interests are so powerful that they have to leave them alone.  Hard to sell a tree shortage in Canada.  Sort of like selling a sand shortage in Libya.

Now, if Canada could figure out a way to market their other major product, frozen water, they'd be the richest country in the world.

Thomas Maddux

Do  you have your own trailer(for moving the lumber, of course  ;D) Dan or do you rent? My partners and I are thinking about getting a few lots for Spring construction and would be very interested in what  kind of savings you are seeing.
We are planning on taking a crew down to the islands sometime and I am looking into some new modules for concrete construction. Apparently you can stack these things  together like leggos (stick building does not pass muster in hurricane country as you well know) and pour the concrete into the modules.
Have you heard anything about these?
Building material in the islands is unbelievably expensive. Stone masons there are eighty bucks an hour!
Verne
p.s On the other hand,,,that's only half what my attorney charges... ;D

     Yeah, Mon, but you can get stoned masons quite cheap!!! ;D

How much? I'll take as many as yer got...they're that good!  ;D
Verne

Soooo....does anyone think the marines taking Fallujah will have any lasting impact  on the situation in Iraq?
Why on earth were they trumpeting to every Tom Dick and Harry who would listen that they were planning to do this?
Apparently the insurgents have move most of their fighters out and are now engaged in co-ordinated attacks all over the country including places in  Baghdad.These folk seem to be able to wreak havoc pretty much at will....
Verne

If I was an insurgent, or even a terrorist for that matter...and I knew that someone was going to come in to the city and look for me...well, I might think about doing something like going somewhere else.

Zarqawi has done just that, according to the news.  Maybe the reporters know where he is?

I'm telling you, we are going to regret this.  We have to conquer these people, not "root them out."  

The insurgents are civilians, and the insurgents five years from now are 12 year olds.

Their view of the world needs to change.

Brent

Verne,

I'll be renting a moving van to transport the lumber.  Presently, Canadian lumber costs 60% less than US lumber.  The savings are substantial, amounting to $60,000+ per house.  The US Customs office told me that as long as I don't sell the lumber,  and transport it myself...it's duty free.  Overall, it's an excellent way to reduce construction costs.

It's a good idea to use reinforced concrete for construction in hurricane areas.  Lumber can be used if it's designed for hurrican forces and built per the 2001 International Building Code.  Most of the wood structures in Florida that were designed/built per the 2001 IBC survived the hurricanes without damage.  I like concrete a lot.  It's my favorite building material because you can get really creative with it.  The styrofoam forms I think you mention are great because they provide good insulation and ease in construction. If the rebar is sufficient and placed correctly, structural collapse won't occur during hurricanes, earthquakes, etc.  The most important thing I can suggest is to have a good, ethical, well experienced structural engineer as a consultant for any building project.  They can save a lot of money in the long term.  If you need one, the website www.seaint.org is an excellent resource to help locate one in your area.

Dan

Thanks so much for the info Dan. I did not know that you build with lumber strong enough to withstand hurricane force winds.  You rarely see it nowadays in the islands. Sounds like it could be a viable alternative for our island projects.
There is a guy in our church who owns a franchise on those styrofoam forms and we are also thinking they would be a cost effective alternative.
With those kinds of savings on lumber, it looks like Paul and I may have to take a trip up North.
Great link. You the man!
Verne

Dan and Verne,

You guys might want to check out the Monolithic Dome Institute at www.monolithicdome.com

The have been constructing concrete domes for years.  They have built domes all the way from storage structures to sports stadiums. There is a school down in San Diego built in this way.

They have pictures of houses, churches, schools, arenas, industrial structures etc.  The site also has a lot of technical info about the strength of these things.

Right now there are several articles about how homes and churches were used as shelters during the Florida hurricanes.

They are located in Texas just off the highway that runs from San Antonio to Dallas.

Check it out.

Thomas Maddux

Wow! Something like this would be quite an eye-catcher on the island of Tortola.
It would unquestionably be a first. Thanks for the link Tom, really progressive architecture. I heard Amory Lovins built something similar in Colorado.
Verne