AssemblyBoard

All:

Apparently a couple of weeks ago (according to one who should know)  Tim and Ginger left the assembly in Fullerton to attend the assembly in Placentia.  So none of the ex-leadership is there is anymore.  

Anybody else here heard this?  

Matt Sciaini

They obviously must be serving jelly donuts at pre prayer.

I like jelly donuts.  I'll have to stop by some day before Tim arrives and have a few.

I wasn't aware that Fullerton is still an assembly...

My take on this is that Tim may go to church wherever he wants.  Thanks for the update.

Let me guess...Fullerton wouldn't let him play leader so he's off to Placentia where they can ease him him, he can show how much "God had changed him" and he can play "leading brother" sometime soon.

Living off tithes is probably a heck of a lot easier than selling real estate.

It is just shocking to me that after all that has been exposed about this Craptakys ministry, people still want to keep it going.

Good point!!

Marcia

So far this thread has offered some conjecture, but virtually no information.  Does anyone actually KNOW what's going on in Placentia, and in what capacity, if any, Tim has (or has not) been received there?

al

comical :-)

Uh Oh:

I doubt very much that the leadership in Placentia is going to hand over the reins and monetary support to Tim G. anytime soon.  There are only about six or seven other families (and a few singles) there besides he and his wife, and I don't think people there are exactly "rolling in the dough".  

Furthermore, as some might corroborate, Jack Hanson very well may have his own ideas as to how things should run there.  Tim left Fullerton (from what I heard) because there was no real strong leadership there and he simply couldn't keep his hands off things, as he was desired to try and do.  The other brethren in Fullerton made decisions and allowed for things with which Tim didn't agree.  I frankly could see two scenarios:

1)  Tim actually learns what it means to submit to other authority (than his father and Fullerton leadership).

2)  Tim and Jack get into a clash of empires (which I doubt).  

As for his work, I don't he is doing real estate now.  

Matt

Thanks for the update Matt.
Its interesting that Tim left Fullerton because there was "no real strong leadership" there and  he "couldn't keep his hands off of things".  Does he still not get the only reason he was previously in a position of leadership was because of daddy?  Furthermore, the only reason daddy was in the position he was in had nothing to do with God and everything to do with the fact he was a liar and a manipulator.

I've stated it once and I'll state it again.  Tim Geftakys has no business being in positon of leadership or any sort of position where he can exert any influence.  He is a wicked, evil, and twisted man.  Tim Geftakys is the ultimate con man.

I can see where selling real estate and having a real job would be a grind for someone who has lived off of other peoples earnings for his whole life.  

Those six or seven families still in Placentia and those involved in Fullerton ought to be committed to a psychiatric institution.

There may be reasons others feel differently, but I can say for myself that Tim Geftakys had never done me wrong.

Tim and I were never buddies nor was he all that friendly to me in the 12 years I was in the Assembly.  But, I wandered into the Beach House in Huntington Beach as an 18 year old who knew nothing about the Bible.  Tim led studies through several books in the Bible and many of the things he taught in a year-long study in Genesis, I still remember and believe today.

OK, there are things I had to unlearn from his teaching in the book of Acts and other places, but for the most part, I gained much from his ministry and I appreciate his helping me find my way around the Bible.

Yes, he was a fast talker and he dominated conversations, but like I said -  my time with him wasn't all bad.  In fact, I learned much in my early days.

In my opinion, he did pretty much what I have seen assiociate college pastors do in churches today - they minister to college students, they disciple, they build relationships and they do various other maintenance job around the church.  In the early days, he did this while supporting his family on part-time jobs.

I understand that the college ministry in general and Tim specifically has issues.  But, in my dealings with him, I don't come away thinking that Tim is a complete fraud.  I have certainly lost respect for his father, but I don't feel this way about Tim.

If you feel differenly, you probably have your reasons.  Realize I haven't been in contact with Tim for over 14 years.

Dave check this out:

www.assemblyboard.com/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=354;start=15 (http://www.assemblyboard.com/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=354;start=15)

and this:
www.assemblyboard.com/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=528;start=msg12828 (http://www.assemblyboard.com/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=528;start=msg12828)

Marcia

Thanks, Marcia, for the reminder.  I was out of the Assembly before any kind of off-based teaching concerning Christ came out (I left in 1990).  However, Tim did actively support the notion that parents uninvolved with the Assembly (as most of them were) were a hinderance to what God was doing.  

In some ways, this was much less tramatic for me because I was already predisposed to this thinking.  Joining the Assembly was part of my late-adolescent rebellion and so I gladly welcomed teaching that separated me from my family.  Years later, I realized how wrong this was and attempted to make ammends.  At that point in my life, however, a mature person who would have helped me with my relationship with my parents would have been good - instead of Tim who taught me I needed to be out of their grip and into a brother's house.

But, then this kind of thinking permiated all the leaders and followers in the Assembly.  (Maybe not Tom, but he was kind of a disappointment). [Wink face here]

-Dave

Uh Oh:

I would be careful about speaking of the Fullerton people that way (that they should be committed to a psychiatric institution).  Any that I've spoken to seem saner than ever (there are few left that still meet at the Senior multi-service center).

I know you're bitter about Tim (for good reason), but try and make distinctions even in your anger.  By no means was/is everybody that was/is involved in the assembly  was on such a big power trip as was the Geftakys
family.  

A lot of what I have seen in the past couple of years is "delayed reaction"....understandable, but definitely things have changed for just about everyone involved.

Matt Sciaini

Fair Enough.  Despite the fact that these people fail to realize that they are continuing a ministry raised up by a wicked man, I would have to agree that that is probably not grounds for being committed to a psychiatric institution.

For the record, I wouldn't say I am angry or even bitter over Tim Geftakys.  Rather, I am just a vindictive SOB.  

Al:

The stuff about Placentia is not conjecture, at least the fact that Tim is there.  I spoke to someone still in Fullerton assembly a few weeks ago and he told me that that is what is going on.  Also, Tim has visited other houses of worship (at least he has visited Puente Valley--Tom Maddux would know them as the  "Whittier group" back in the old days).  I visited Puente Valley about a month ago and a man by the name of Sonny Brown who is there mentioned that Tim and Ginger had stopped in there to visit.  I say at least it's another step away from the Geftakys organization days, and that's a good thing.

Matt 

Time will tell.

However, I suggest that moving to Placentia was not a step away from the organization but a step towards it.  Tim wanted to be in leadership, and they wouldn't let him.  So, he went to a place that is pretty much the same as it always was....not good IMO.

The fact that he is visiting Brethren groups doesn't comfort me either.  Dave Mauldin was an itinerate "gospel" preacher until about 2 weeks before he became an unbeliever.  These folks should have the discernment to help Tim....NOT!!

I would be encouraged if Tim went to EV Free, or Calvary, or something like that.  However, if he goes to these other places, he is only looking for trouble, IMO. 

Perhaps I'm wrong, that would be nice.

Brent

Matt,

I knew the "Whittier Group" well many years ago, before I ever heard of George Geftakys.  I used to go to retreats with them.  They are "comeouters". 

Sonny Brown was in the Assembly during its early years.  However, he fell away from the Lord...ooops....I mean that he woke up and smelled the coffee and got out of Dodge.   ;)

The Whittier/Puente Hills group came out of "the churches", then they came out of the Plymouth Bretheren.  Some of them knew GG back in his PB days.  They knew about his early history, so no illusions there.  The Big Mahout is a man named Floyd Police. 

Tim won't be taking over that group...you can count on it.  However, they will receive him for fellowship, and probably ministry.

Thomas Maddux

Whaaat??!!! Is this some kind of joke Brent?
Verne

No Joke,

Absolutley true.  I may have weeks confused with months, but if so, We're talking no more than 4 months, which makes it weeks I suppose.

I am not joking.

Brent

I believe it. After some of the people I have met supposedly "doing ministry", nothing really surpnrises me that much anymore. Anything is possible after Geftakys.
Verne

Check this out Verne,

This same bunch booted George, but allowed Mauldin to preach. 

How bad was George?

Brent

It is interesting that you should ask that particular question. I am composing an essay for personal consumption called "In Defense of Strong Language"
Some, like Tom Maddux have pointed out that the things that George did did not involve the physical killing of folk and so arguably he should not be considered as bad as someone like Adolf Hitler.
That perspective, more than anything else explains the difference between the way I view what George did, and those who accuse me of using language disproportionate to the offense.
This is a conversation we can only properly have over a cup of java. When it comes to the severitiy of spiritual offenses, I happen to agree with William Gurnalll. After alll, murder, even mass murder is forgiveable, not so he who sins against the Holy Spirit. My own opinion is that this in some way refers to countefeiting. I believe the Old Testament types support this. Remember what it says about imitating the the apothecary ointment.
Verne

p.s. I take the Lord's warning against offending his flock literally and when I was asked to serve indicated I would rather He calll me home than let me do something reallly stupid. I was not kidding...I bought a pile of life insurance...

Brent,

I knew George when he was still in fellowship with Grace Bible Chapel.  He preached regularly in other assemblies such as Shadow Hills Bible Chapel.  Caryl and I fellowshipped there for a few months back in 69.

As far as I know, they never "booted" George.  They refused to recognize him in any leadership capacity...I think that is what got his goat.

Unless you know something I don't know.

Thomas Maddux

Verne et al,

This is interesting to me.  I've been thinking about some of these 'issues' recently.


Do you think that they, ie Geftakys leaders etc., had the Lord's anointing?
My inclination is to think along the lines that George could not have put his empty hand on anybody's full head to bring about God's anointing.


Some quotes that might be relevant to your essay.



God bless,
Marcia

Hi Tom,

I think I may have my Brethren groups mixed up.  Upon referring to some old notes, it was the Goodyear guys in Pomona that booted him.  The Grace and Whittier guys did as you say, they would not recognize him.

Brent

No I do not. George clearly had power.
To suggest that its origin was the Spirit of God based on what it produced requires a far braver man than I...
Verne
p.s. It literally makes me shudder when I hear people openly acknowledging a man like Geftakys as their spiritual father; I instead ask God to forgive me for my own blindness and deception...

Brent,

As I recall, many of the folks from the Goodyear/ Pomona assembly are in the Whittier group today.  They were, I believe, the ones that placed him under discipline for adultery.  He later patched that up.  I'm not sure how.

The Whittier group started when Floyd Police stopped fellowshipping at Westmoreland Chapel after Sparks sent Bro. Harrison to take over.  Floyd considered that to be "one man ministry", which is comeouter heresy.

Thomas Maddux

Marcia,

You said:

The real question is whether or not the annointing of God as experienced by OT prophets, priests, and kings is a reality today.

The rite of annointing symbolized the conferring of the presence of the Holy Spirit upon the subject.  It was reserved, in OT times, for a very small class of people.  Leaders of various types mostly.

But at Pentecost the Holy Spirit was poured out on the entire church.  One of those present on that occassion wrote: "As for you, the annointing you received from Him abides in you..." I John 2:27.

So, the real issue is not whether or not GG could "pass on the annointing".  It is whether or not this is even possible in this age. Personally, I don't think so.  Pentecost marks a significant change in God's dealings with man, particularly the church.

Thomas Maddux

Tom:

Yes, I've met Floyd Police a few times.  In fact, I borrowed one of his books from a friend of mine. 
It was sort of like Testimony to Jesus, but far more readable and more humble in its tone.  It was something with the subtitle "Talks on the Church", but I can't remember the exact title, even though it is on my nightstand as I e-mail right now. 

Ironically enough, the daughter of Bro. Harrison and her husband are at Puente Valley.  I guess in the early days of Geftakys they were involved with GG but quickly left after a seminar or two, according to different accounts.

As far as it goes with Tim, I don't think he will "take over" anywhere.

People "get" him.

Matt

Tom,
I agree with you that things changed at Pentecost regarding the Holy Spirit.
George once asked to meet with me privately, it concluded with George putting his hands on my head and shoulder, praying for Gods annointing on me. I found it a confusing experience. Are you or anyone else aware of George doing this type of thing?

Matt,

You notice the similarity.  All of these folks have drunk deeply of the Deeper Life and Restoration of the NT church movements.   Plymouth Brethrenism has these ideas deeply imbedded.


I remember him.  His name was Mike if I remember correctly.  Sadly, his parents went into the Witness Lee movement and presented him with an ultimatum...join the One True Church or we will break off fellowship with you.  They were in the Whittier group for several years before that.

Mike didn't join the Witness Lee group.  I wonder how that all turned out.  I hope they came to their senses.

Man...that was at least 25 years ago.

Thomas Maddux

I don't remember anything like that.  He prayed for lots of folks, but the laying on of hands bit is new to me.

Thomas Maddux

There was a single sister in SLO, who was undergoing surgery.  During the Sunday morning meeting, George called her to the front of the room, along with the leading brothers.  I distinctly remember George and the lb's laying hands on her.  I also think he even had holy water..Brent, if you were there, can you tell me if indeed there was holy water?

I wasn't there, but in my experiences, the leadership didn't use holy water which is a Catholic idea.  However, they did on few occasions anoint the sick with oil.  I have seen this in other non-charasmatic churches as they base this practice on James 5:14.

David,

Yes, I believe it was indeed oil, and not holy water.

Tom:

Rest assured, brother, Mike is doing just fine.  During the time that I was attending there (August 2003)  he requested that we pray for him and his wife for a visit to his parents that were living in Oregon.   No, he stayed at Puente Valley and is one of the teachers there.  Apparently his parents "came around" at some point regarding their relationship with him, if not regarding their relationship with the Witness Lee group.

I don't know that I have an issue with "Deeper Life" per se, and at least at this place they acknowledge T. Austin Sparks (about 75% of the books on their table are by him).  I can't recall ever seeing anything by Sparks on the Geftakys booktable, and I was involved with it the last few years of my stay in the Assembly.

Regarding Tim, one can pray that if he anticipates any kind of renewal of position or possession or power as under the old guard, may the Lord have mercy on him and dash his hopes, even in the good ol' Placentia assembly.



Matt Sciaini

Per the California department of real estate data shown below, it looks like Tim is no longer in the real estate business.  Must be back to mooching off of college students...


License Type:
 SALESPERSON

 
Name:
 Geftakys, Timothy M

 
Mailing Address:
 122 W FLORENCE AVE #23
LA HABRA, CA 90631

 
License ID:
 01407048

 
Expiration Date:
 12/05/07

 
License Status:
 CONDITIONAL SUSPENSION

 
Original License Date:
 12/06/03 (Unofficial -- taken from secondary records)
[size=20pt]Conditional Salesperson License was suspended 06/07/05. Education to maintain license per section 10153.4 has not been met. Requirement must be met by 12/05/07.[/size]
 
Former Name(s):
 NO FORMER NAMES

 
Employing Broker:
 NO CURRENT EMPLOYING BROKER

 
Comment:
 NO DISCIPLINARY ACTION

 
 06/07/05 - CONDITIONAL LICENSE SUSPENSION. EDUCATION REQUIREMENTS NOT FILED.

 
 >>>> Public information request complete <<<<

 

Just stopped in to say Hello hav'ent been here in awhile. Good to see Verne has'nt lost his spunk,er fire. Question anyone may answer....Does Tim.G. follow the 7th day teaching of his father GG and do the Assm cults still teach this? and Why? would WLA have false teachers sit in (GG) for the Lord's supper? I think the answer is self-explanetory, but it shows how aberrant the place is. Does WLA teach 7th day or did they straighten out the heresys over-all? Does Mark M teach this too, or was he just blind sided by George? as his Father figure has anyone made sence of this as an excuse for leading many astray ? Lest anyone forget. "Forgetting what is behind and pressing for what is ahead" Phil 3.  Thanks Summer. p.s. Brent if your out there anywhere I hope your doing well you and your Family. Pop in and say Hi sometime. Good-Day!

I remember Tim preaching against the 7th day creation (when GG wasn't around) back when the assembly was still going.  Now, Tim had some of his own weird ideas, but I don't think he ever bought into this one.