AssemblyBoard

Here's a question for anyone who wants to take the challenge: what DOES the Bible say about dating?

Hi Eulaha, define dating!  I personally lean mores towards courtship, because the word and what it stands for has not been as corrupted by the world.

But to be honest we all can say we know of Christians that dated a lot and they have blessed marriages, and there are some that did not "date" at all that have blessed marriages.  Just be faithful to the Lord and his things, and you will have Peace about to date or not to date.  

My two cents and by no stretch the end of this talk, which I know will help us all grow.

George

The bible actually says not a thing about "dating".  {to my knowledge} The scriptural method for finding a mate and marriage was actually betrothal.
When you were betrothed, you were legally bound.  To end a betrothal covenant, a divorce was actually needed.  So much different than what we have now-a-days.  Even in the "church".  :-\

You could go to biblegateway.com and do a word search for betrothal and it will tell you all the scriptures where you find that word.

Another option is to search out current teachings on betrothal/dating/courtship.      www.boldchristianliving.com

Dr. SM Davis' ministry.  http://www.drsmdavis.com/module/store/vbc/21/
You can find the names and descriptions of his 9 tape audio series on betrothal.  {I won't post them here, but will just let anyone interested follow the link.}
 
There is also a web site with all the different perspectives, including a good link for betrothal.
http://www.girlsoffaith.com/betrothal.htm       The articles at the bottom are a good read, as well.    You can click back to home page from this link for courtship and dating articles.

hope that helps. :)
blessings,
auntiefluffy

The Bible, as many have pointed out, says nothing about dating.

Many assembly errors, and errors of other groups as well, come from an unspoken assumption.  The assumption is that the Bible can guide every aspect of church and personal life.

This is actually true, up to a point.  It is in going beyond this point that trouble starts.

For example, the Bible has a WHOLE lot of teaching about HOW to live.  It says nothing at all about WHERE to live.

It says  much about marriage and family life.  But, again, it says nothing about how to find a wife.
My own belief is that this is because God, looking down through human history knew that the Gospel was for all times and all nations.  Primitive tribes and modern urbanites live in different situations.  

There are those who try to make the Bible tell us everything.
I have heard teaching that we should all be farmers or herdsmen, since that's what Abraham the father of the faithful did.  Are we not to walk in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham?   Answer, yes, we are to emulate his faith.  But not his lifestyle.

Let everyone who thinks we should live like Abraham immediately move into a tent!

What I would like to hear is what the Bible has to say about whether I should drive a Ford or a Chevy.

Tom,

Excellent point. Something I've had to work out for myself over the years while praying about jobs, moves, etc. Never could find a scripture telling me what to do.

It's something I've been clarifying in my mind recently but if you could expand on that same topic, I would love to hear it.

Scott

I agree with you Tom.  I think the Assembly can get "cult-like" when one starts to make presumptions about the Word of God.  Just because the Bible says nothing about dating doesn't mean that it's wrong to do so.  The Bible doesn't speak about driving-does that mean you must get rid of your vehicle?  Of course not-that would be ridiculous!

I think dating can be a fun thing to do, if you go about it the right way.  I am not preparing myself for divorce, as the Assembly teaches, but rather, I am learning about what kind of man I would like to be married to.  

Any comments from current Assembly members?

Hi
My name is Gary Wilson
I am in Fullerton. First started coming out in 72
Actually meant my wife a year before.  But started courting
her right around the time I came into fellowship in Fullerton
I never asked anyone for permission to spend time with her.
Prior to being saved I had dated alot.  Kinda like the candy store thing.  You know sample this - sample that.

When I started spending time with Linda things were so different.  I believe God had changed how I viewed dating.
Linda and I used to go to Costa Mesa Calvary Chapel together.  A brother and sister thing.  But God put her on my heart gave me a promise and off I went.

What was different was I asked her to go to Calvary like before but I knew things were different.  That night in fear and trembling I told her I thought God might be bringing us together.  I wasn't dogmatic.  It was just on my heart to be right up front with.  No games.  Just simple honesty.

She asked the question, if God is bringing us together, what does he want?  I told her I would pray about it.
God begun to give me so much light on our relationship and
what he wanted.  We were both astounded.

But God changed so many of my attitudes about relationships between men and women.  He gave me a value for Linda that I had never had for other women.
He forced me to take the lead in so many ways.  In confessing my love for her, in caring for her, etc.

So is dating wrong:  What is dating?  You could say Linda and I dated.  But the content [value] of what we did was so different.
To me dating is just a word.  Call it dating, spending time together, courting, blah blah blah.
I think the important thing is what is the individuals motives and intentions.  If there is mutual respect, openness and honesty then the chances of damage are lessened.
I think we all need to remember the other person we are involved with belongs to God.  The world approaches things so differently.

Oh, Linda and I started spending time together (dating) in
November.  I asked her to marry me on April 6th (her birthday).  I also believe God gave me the day to ask her.
That is another story.  I never asked permission to ask for
her hand in marriage.  I did let some in leadership know that
was my intention.

I hope that helps.  This is not to say God always leads how he lead me.  I simply say God knows and God works.

Gary, thank you!!  That is a really nice "how we got married" story.  

Eulaha, sorry I can't give you the Assembly perspective.  However, as a former habitual dater (that was how I ate regularly while in college!!) I can tell you that it wasn't much different than any other area of my life in terms of the Lord.  When I asked Him to show me His will, He did.  When I didn't, He placed it upon my conscience anyway.  

When I first met the guy who ended up being my husband, God absolutely CLEARLY told me to break up with the boyfriend I had at the time.  I just didn't know why at first.  It's much clearer in retrospect.  ;D

As far as the Bible not saying anything about dating, I look at dating as one of the "sign of the times" type of items, like driving cars as was previously mentioned.  Back then, there were different cultural procedures for "dating" or finding the person you married.  I think dating is our cultural procedure today.

But anyway...like anything else, it can be done in a God-honoring, or NON God-honoring, manner.

I came across this thread and laughed.  I have often wondered how I might find a future wife, and even though i kept a stand that the Lord will lead me to that perfect partner, the wonderment toward what *I* could do to add or supplement the process often went through my head.  

With a glimpse, one can easily see that the widely sold form of meeting your future spouse was based on the concept of (as someone put it) sampling a little bit here and there to find exactly what qualities you would want.  I personally quickly likened this to a variation of divorce, although without the binding agreements.  When 2 people come together in a relationship meant to be close and intimate (such as dating), emotions will flair and hormones will soar.  Due to the lack of binding dedication, the couple has no reason to stay together when it comes convienent to seperate, and off they are to sample something else.  

Although one can examine the themes of the increasing in dating and the parralleled increasing divorce rates (does this teach us that we can marry, sample, and re-marry?), there is a biblical side to all of this.  When a man or a woman gets into a close relationship with another, those emotions will fly, "love sickness" will become prevelent, and the thought will come "what can i do without him/her".  If one stirs up such emotions, than breaks them off to move on to something else, that person has just defrauded that other.  They have tempted him/her with something they were not willing to give / could not give, and have thus stolen those feelings without care that his/her future spouse will be defrauded as well.

I know that the above has not been eloquent, but it is hard (at least for myself) to put ideas that the Lord has given, onto paper.  Just think about what is "consumed" during the dating process, what is left behind on the 2 involved (scars?), and how does this affect the future spouse (and even the individual in the first couple, caring needless scars).  Any way it goes, i have learned that the Lord does indeed guide us to where he wants us, and all we can do is maintain that holy fellowship with the brethern and sistern of Christ.

Luke,

Sounds like you have bought into the Assembly's way of thinking about dating.  Obviously you haven't dated before...how about comments from those of us who have dated or who are currently dating?

Sounds to me like a young man with personal convictions about purity and holiness in relationships.  1 Tim 5:2
Joshua Harris has a great book called "I Kissed Dating Goodbye".  He came to these same conclusions without ever being a part of the "Assembly"

Joel

Dear JS,

I agree that people come to similar conclusions without ever entering the assembly.

Legalism is not new.  The unwritten rule that explains much legalistic thinking is "if it is not specifically taught in the Bible it is forbidden."

Luke S. comments on dating are based on a false dilemma in his thinking.  It is not increased dating/increased divorce.
It is decreased influence of Christian values in our society which leads to increased indulgence of carnal behavior.

Another problem is the idea that God will guide you to His perfect choice for you.  Where does the Bible promise this?

Oh, I know, there are promises about guidance.  But they are very short on specifics.  Instruction in wisdom and morality are forms of guidance.  

In the assemblies, and in much of Christianity as well, a sort of sloppy mysticism is common.  Someone is praying about getting married.  He has a conversation with sister X.  He is interested. The next morning he reads "And when He ascended on high He gave gifts to men".   He concludes that God has "given him a promise" that sister X is to be his wife.  When sister X marries brother Y he is devastated, at least until God gives him another promise.

As to the hurt feelings and such in dating, there are at least two check on this.
1. Christians are to behave themselves in a Christlike manner.  They are not to treat people selfishly.
2. Christians are to seek wisdom.  How can you know if sister X or brother Y will be a suitable spouse if you do not get to know them?  

The term dating is too broad.  It could mean anything from a cup of coffee in a public place, to doing something very foolish.   Just because something has a POTENTIAL for abuse doesn't make it wrong.  Do you drive a car?  Could you hurt someone?  Of course.   The key is to drive wisely and responsibly, not to tell people it is not God's will that we drive.

I used to date after I became a Christian.  I dated several girls, but one really caught my attention.  She had a real heart for God.  We had an argument about the doctrine of the Trinity on our first date.

January 28th will be our 38th anniversary.

God bless,
Tom Maddux

Tom, you had an interesting question. You asked, where does the Bible promise that God will lead whoever to His perfect choice for their husband or wife?

Psalm 84:11 says, "For the Lord God is a sun and shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly."

I know this verse doesn't say, "The Lord God will lead thee to thy perfect companion." But don't you think that if God has a will for each of our lives, that will includes who we will marry? Would God leave out such an important part of our lives in his will for us?

I also think that there is not much difference between dating and courtship; courtship to me seems to me more focused than dating, with the intent of possibly marrying this person from the get-go, but you're still spending time with a person you like.

I have much to learn, believe me, but those are just some thoughts.

It is my conviction to not needlessly defraud a Sister by stirring up emtions and feelings that I am not able to satisfy.  

Phil,


"I know this verse doesn't say, "The Lord God will lead thee to thy perfect companion." But don't you think that if God has a will for each of our lives, that will includes who we will marry? Would God leave out such an important part of our lives in his will for us?"

Aha, now we get down to the nitty gritty.

"If God has a will for each of our lives".  The idea we picked up in the assembly was that God had a perfect will for every Christian, and if we strayed in any detail, we would miss "God's best".  (A Fullerton elder once tried to keep me in the assembly with this appeal).  

Where does the Bible teach this?  The Bible teaches much about our character and behavior.  How to live, work, talk, and live our married lives.    

But it says nothing about WHERE to live, WHERE to work, WHAT  to say, WHO to marry.  So Christians head straight for mysticville and try do discover God's will by some subjective experience.  One hears the words "sense, prompting, urging" and so on.   BUT WHERE DOES THE BIBLE TEACH THIS?

Of course, if you are in the assemblies, you could just head for the nearest leading brother and ask HIM to go to mysticville to find out God's will for you.  Again, where does the Bible teach THIS?

So, Phil, I would have to say that the answer to your question, "would God leave out such an important part of his will for us?", is yes He would.  Deliberately.  
That is why He has placed us as Sons.  We are supposed to become adults!  Could the Lord Jesus figure out a good marriage partner for you?  Of course.  We are supposed to grow to the "measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ". Eph 4:13.

In our culture, marriage choices are the responsibility of adults.  In the past, these choices were made by parents.
But, in our part of the world, that seems to be finished.

If you have a copy of  "Knowing God" by Packer, read the chapter "God our Guide".

God bless,
Thomas Maddux

Luke S.

Your statement reeks of George Geftaky's contempt of women, which has effected attitudes throughout the assemblies.

Find a godly, mature and intelligent woman who won't be "stirred up" with feelings you cannot satisfy.   Some women do act like this, and some brothers as well.   So pass those over and date adults.

"Find a date, that would make a good mate."

God bless,
Thomas Maddux

Does it now.  Am I wrong to be careful in my actions in order to keep myself pure? Am I wrong to be conscious of the fact that something is happening and changing in a relationship when one dates and gets to know someone intimately?


Maybe you forget that I looking at this subject as an 18 year old teen?  Maybe my outlook will change as i get older, but for now, it stands as a conviction to fellowship with my Sisters in holy fellowship and purity, not driven by emotion.

Tom,

In your post, you first said, "The idea we picked up in the assembly was that God had a perfect will for every Christian...it says nothing about...WHO to marry." Then later you said, "Could the Lord Jesus figure out a good marriage partner for you? Of course."

Are you saying that Jesus does have someone He would want me to marry, but I don't have to marry that person if I don't want to? Or did I misunderstand you? I'd like you to clarify that.

About God's will: Ephesians 1:5, 11 and Mark 3:35 (probably among other verses as well) speak of God having a will. In Mark 3:35, Jesus says, "Whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother." Jesus said in John 6 that the WORK of God is to believe in Him who the Father sent. But what is the WILL of God? And how specific is it?

I thank God that we can have this dialogue and not scream our heads off at each other. I hope others see that. I may be in fellowship at St. Louis,  but I'm learning a lot right now!

Peace-

Luke (yeah, I know you like the cognomen of JesusFreak, but I have the CD by DC Talk and I really don't think it fits),

Boy am I glad that you are not going to "needlessly defraud" my daughter "by stirring up emotions and feelings that" you "are not able to satisfy!"

That's a big relief because she will probably be so mindless and helpless before your obvious charm and intelligence that she will fall head over heels in love with you!

She is, as you are well aware, as weak and insipid as all women. Unable to resist her more sinful nature, she will surely make a bad choice and assume that since you have expressed an interest in her, therefore she must forsake all others and wait for you to come and claim her. When that sad day comes when you decide that she is not of of good enough stock for a man of your caliber, she will surely cast herself down, renting her garments and smearing her face with ash. Poor, foolish girl.

Your comments are not only insulting and arrogant but reveal your inexperience.

I once worked as a reporter. There was a man who continually wrote letters to the editor that were so inane and laughable that I wrote an editorial and addressed him thusly, quoting a more famous and better orator than I: "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt."


Scott

Brother, no need for hostility.  I believe I have made my convictions clear. If I have not, please address them specifically as to have a benifical and edifying converstaion (as I would be delighted to continue this thread).  

Scott, if this must resort to personal attacks, I will take my leave now and leave in peace.

Before I was Mrs, I was a serial, habitual... DATER.  This gave me an opportunity to get to know a lot of people at a somewhat surface level.  I also did a lot of thinking about what I did and didn't want from my future spouse after meeting different young men.

God ended up leading me smack into the man that was to be my husband, JUST when I LEAST could have expected it.  However, I don't know if I would have recognized him as such if I didn't already have well-defined ideas of what I did and did not want from a husband, based upon my previous experiences.

One man's (or woman's) path is not necessarily another's.  Luke, Phil, and anyone else--God honors your respect for His daughters, and by all means you should listen to what you feel He is telling you.  However, don't shut yourself off to the idea that there is a Godly way to spend time with girls and get to know them without giving them the wrong idea, or breaking their hearts.  Like anything else, there are God-honoring and non-God-honoring ways to do it.

To expand on that, I have read somewhere on this Board about the commonly utilized Assembly way of getting two people "hooked up."  ;D  It seems that if a guy was interested in a girl, he had to speak to an LB.  If all gave approval to the pursuit, the woman was notified that Bro. so and so was interested in her.  Because only very serious pursuit was allowed, and no "alone" time was permitted prior to this, by the time the prospective couple were face to face, the girl was thinking MARRIAGE...because the guy had to have been serious to get that far.  So if they talked, and one really didn't like the other...well, at least one heart was broken that had been hopeful.  Now, from a more "worldly" viewpoint, suppose upon first interest that brother had asked her to go out and grab some casual dinner.  They may have found on that "first date" that there wasn't really any interest from one side or another.  No second date...probably not too many hard feelings.  Most people wouldn't assume that because of one dinner, the other person had imminent marriage on their mind.

Take it from one who has been there, and is now in "happily ever after!"

Lovingly,
Karen  ;D

PS-Tom, my husband and I debated about theology the first night we met.  He tells me now that he purposefully threw all of his "hardballs" at me to see if I would get nervous and run!  After that night, he knew I was the one.  Blessings to you and your wife!

hey guys i have a brilliant idea! lets all thank the Lord we can have joy in fellowship with one another, no matter our disagreements. as far as dating is concerned, leave it to the Lord and let it be. If someone feels led to date, let them "knock themselves out" so to speak. if someone feels led to remain single until the Lord leads them otherwise, let them do the same. Live by the Lord, not by one another! Peace.

Luke,

*sigh* Geez, Bro, where's the fun in that? Just because my response is personal (and make no doubt, it was!), doesn't me it's not valid or you don't have a right to clarify or defend your position.

I can be upset at what you said, and you can be upset with me if you don't agree! That doesn't mean we have to suspend the thread.

Challenge me! Refute me!

It's late where I am. I'll see you on the morrow.

Scott

You find fun in offending with personal attacks?  My Brother, I do not.  

perhaps i could jump in here. i completely understand where luke is coming from, since that is also the perspective i was raised with. it is tied into a deep respect for the feminine mystique, and in its own way it is a very noble ideal to live by. however, it is not directly biblically supported, and its main arguement is based on the idea that no other position (ie dating is ok) is biblically supported either, which is obviously a weak position. all of the other verses used concerning purity in relationships can still apply to a dating situation. spending time alone together bonding and getting to know one another is not impure. its healthy and its fun. it leads to great friendships that can lead to romance, but may not. if you don't want false expectations in a relationship that may lead to someone getting their heart broken, then communicate honestly and clearly (one of the best and most basic pieces of advise for any relationship).

one of the problems in the debate here between scott and luke is that scott is experienced in dating and luke is not. so when you, luke, try to tell scott what dating is like and the dynamics of what it leads to, he has a hard time taking you seriously because thats not really the way it goes. on the other hand, scott's reaction is fairly typical of those who are experienced in and comfortable with dating - scornful and insulting dismissal of another's naive perspective.

scott, *you* are closing the door on this debate by forcing luke into a position where he either has to scorn himself or end the debate. his naivety is a poor excuse for you to publicly attack and mock him.

we all have a lot we can learn from each other here. the younger ones don't have as many years under their belt to gain extremely useful perspective from. lets have patience with each other. debate is so much more enjoyable and useful when the goal is mutual understanding rather than oneupmanship.

Brian, you are of course correct. :-[ Nice moderating!

I do owe Luke an apology. Normally I will not post a reply to anything that gets a rise out of me immediately. I find I'm much more constructive after I cool off and collect my thoughts.

I also enjoy a little spice in my debate. I forget that not everyone is like that and when I am debating with someone who is not like that, I certainly come off as offensive. My fault alone.

I apologize Luke for my sarcasm and also for dismissing your opinion as invalid. It is not.

You are obviously very intelligent. Very sincere and have a deeper understanding of doctrinal issues than most of your peers. I respect that.

Scott

[Tom Maddux

I agree that people come to similar conclusions without ever entering the assembly.
Legalism is not new.]  

Tom,
Thank you for your reply.  Just a couple thoughts.

I guess I never considered someone’s personal convictions "legalism"
Legalism is the idea that I can establish my own righteousness before God.  (If I don't date I'm righteous, If I date I am not righteous, for example).  Maybe you're assuming that's what I meant, and that’s is what you may have been taught in the “assembly.”

But is it possible that God can give us wisdom regarding some of these issues?  I think it is.
I have a desire to have a pure heart before God, and I'm sure that you do to.  The Bible tells me to keep my heart with all diligence for out of it are the issues of life.  If I know that certain things will cause me to stumble or cause others to stumble, is it legalistic to refrain from those things?  The apostle Paul did not think so.  
1 Corinthians 8:13  Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
Paul's motivation was love for his brethren.  Can we believe the best about our brother (Jesus Freak Luke S) and assume that that is his motivation as well?  

Romans 14 :3,5  Let not him that eateth (dateth) despise him that eateth (dateth) not; and let not him which eateth (dateth) not judge him that eateth (dateth): for God hath received him.  One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

There are "unwritten rules" in these assemblies about dating, and I know that I have looked down on Christians that dated, and for that I repent.  My self-righteousness in communicating these convictions in the past does not invalidate the principles.  

We both need to come to the conclusion that healthy, well balanced, Christians who love the Lord Jesus Christ can have differing convictions about these topics.

God Bless You,
Joel

Hi Tom

You probably remember me ( Gary Wilson ).  You spent sometime meeting with me.  I have read a number of your posts.  I have enjoyed your thought provoking posts.  

I wanted to drop you a line.  First of all I want to thank you for the personal interest you took in my life a number of years ago.
Secondly, though I did once ask your forgiveness for not being truthful with you I think it bears repeating.  Brother forgive me for basically "shining you on".  I was the one who wasted an opportunity.
Thank you for going out to me.  Their have been several individuals throughout the years that have taken a personal interest in my life.
You and they have not been forgotten.

I am sure you remember my wife Linda Wilson.  We are hagging in there and seeing what the Lord will  either do with Fullerton or in Fullerton.

Say Hi to your wife for me and continue to be an encouragement and comfort to His people.  How are your childern?

Oh by the way.  Your 1st argument with your wife. Did you come to unity?  How long did it take?  Just kidding.  I enjoyed the post on dating.  Actually God did give me a promise concerning Linda.  However, it wasn't the instant mashed potatoe - I saw her - she's the one - here's the promise type thing.  It took sometime for me to be convinced that God was the one putting her on my heart.  
So dating - Linda and I dated - but it certainly was different.

Take care brother

Lord Bless

Gary Wllson

Wow, this is turning out to be a pretty hot topic! :D

Ok, I was being a little hard on jesusfreak.  I just don't like it when a person tries to impose their viewpoint on me.  That is very Assembly-like.  I date, and I do not feel lit is wrong, I do not feel I am "helping God out", or anything like that.  Remember, in the Assembly, people do date, it's just called "spending time".  And you could only do that with consent of the leading brothers. :o

If you date, that's cool.  If you don't believe in dating, that's cool too, just don't try and inforce your perspective on others, or try to make people feel guilty for what they are doing.  I don't believe dating is a sin...anyway, I hope I am making myself clear? ;)

We don't need to bicker and fight.  Let's just agree to disagree, shall we? 8)

I don't know if Tom or anyone else has seen my most recent post here yet on this subject, but I'm just reminding him or anyone else that I'd like to see someone respond to those questions. Thanks!

Peace,

Dear Phil

      Concerning your cry for a reply.  Your cry has been heard so here is a reply.  I hope it helps.  

Let me 1st say this Phil.  We are individuals.  We are unique.  We are not puppets.  God made us to be FREE individuals.  Now sin has really throw a monkey wrench in the works.  But God made us FREE.  Not Free in the sense that we run the universe and set up are own little kingdoms.  But Free in the sense that we have the capacity to freely think, freely imagine, freely choose.
What I think is most important that we remember 3 things.
1)  God works from the center.  He dwells in our spirits and transforms us from within  NOT from without.  We like to start from without.  Rules, structure, blah, blah, blah.
2)  God works by faith.  We like the sight thing.  In my opinion many times Methods are a form of sight.  Give me something I can grasp, something I can lay hold of.  We like to put God in a box.  
So the human tendency is "how do I know the will of God?"   I am not saying this is bad.  I am saying that the natural tendency in knowing the will of God is to control the will of God.  Remember, Abraham went out NOT knowing wither.
3)  God wants us to deeply know his love and to respond to it.  We love Him because He 1st loved us.
If we stick with the following 3 things ( forgive my simplicity ) then I believe will do just fine in all areas of our life.
Will we miss the will of God at times - of course - were human. But God knows and is over all.  Remember Abraham.

Now on to Marriage and mates.
Does God have a perfect mate for you.  I have no idea.  What!!! This doesn't help.  You are unique.  God knows you and loves you.  God knows your every need.  Can God lead you to a mate that would be perfect for you.  Absolutely.
Does Jesus have someone that He wants you to marry and do you have to marry that person?  If this is true, let me ask how will you know?  I could spend the rest of my life on a total bummer with that one.  Did I choose the right one.   What if I didn't?

I don't believe I Cor 7 addresses that question.   I get the sense that we are left with the choice.   In an earlier post I said that I believe God brought Linda and I together.  I can't super impose my EXPERIENCE on you.  Remember God has given you a number of natural facilities.
I trust that being a man there are certain women that appeal to you.  If these facilities are yielded to the Lord, do you not think He can use them.  Sorry to make this seem so natural.  The question is, what do you want in a mate?

Brother what I am saying - let the debate begin - I think God has left the choice up to you.  Be at peace.  Trust Him to lead you.
You may want to take that choice and give it back to HIM.  

I'm not trying to miminize the importance of who you might spend time with -date- or marry but to put into simple terms.  How many things do you within your life that are based upon WHO you are as
a REDEEMED individual.  Do you trust God to lead in the simple things such as dress, food, etc?   Do all Christians dress the same.  Do all Christians have the same criteria for how they choose their clothing.
Now God may deal with an individual on "WHY he chooses a certain style - Vanity - etc.  Could the same apply to marriage.  Remember the issue is the heart.

Sorry I was long typed.  I hope my sense of humor was not offensive.
I am trying to me helpful.  I do hope this helps.  Yea right.  I'll never read anything you write.

God bless you Phil

Oh man, this thread is killing me.  Luke, no offense, although there is validity to some of the things you are saying, all you are doing is repeating what you have been told all your life.  This bothered me when I was in that place, and it bugs me now to hear people just regurgitate what others have told them, and not their own reality.  

After all that has gone on, it's disheartening to see people still spewing out all the assemblyite teachings that have been perpetuated for so many years.  Hasn't the GG debacle taught any of us anything?  It's time to go back to the drawing board and start looking into the scriptures for ourselves.  

Toni Rosinetti,

What dating method are you referring to?   radiocarbon/C-14, thermoluminescence,  potassium argon???  Please clarify.

Right on Verne.

Reminds me of the verse "Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats." 1 Timothy 4:3

I always thought it was weird there were so many older singles around.  I figured they had cold feet, then realized they every aspect of their lives was controlled by the GGS (George Geftakys System).

I will agree with you.  I *do* find it slightly disturbing that, that which i firmly believe in my heart parallels a portion of the assembly teachings, and this is why i am contributing to this thread.  I am eagerly waiting other people's perspectives on the topic, not just critizism's of each other's views.

Gary,

Thank you for replying! I think you're right in a lot of the things you've said. You are exactly right in that we must walk by faith, and not by sight! The thing is though, how do we know WHAT to believe God for by faith? In my life I've found that I felt ready to believe God for something, but I wasn't sure what it was, and I had a very uneasy feeling inside.

One of my questions I'm not sure if you answered. Jesus did say in Mark, "Whosoever shall DO the will of God..." That seems to suggest that He does want us to do His will, and hence know what it is so we can do it. In light of this verse, what do you make of it?

Thank you for replying. I know Tony said this thread was killing him, but I'm enjoying it because instead of blasting each other to peaces, we're talking!

Peace

I was reading back through this forum, and a thought that one of my mentors confered to me came to mind:

"Debating under at least loose rules is one of the best ways to sharpen your ability to offer and depend your beliefs."

Although I am here to expand my outlook, a little *spice* might occassionally be in order.

Hi Phil

    I agree on what you said.  This is such a cool way to have dialogue.
And we don't have to agree on all matters or on how things may be worked out in life.
    I certainly am not an expert on the "will of God" and have had my share of failures.  God is good.  
    So let me restate I am not dogmatic on what I am putting forth.  I am more of an impression type of guy.  That is to say when I am walking with the Lord I believe He impresses things upon my heart.
So people are verbal, some logical, some are picture type people.

So here are my impressions.  Hopefully they have a scriptual basis.
I believe it is of 1st importance that WE BELIEVE GOD.  I think this comes before our faith in WHAT do I believe.  Hold the phone.  I can almost hear the wheels turning - BUT BUT BUT.  I got the same thing going off inside of me.  What I am saying is do we 1st believe that God
loves us unconditionally?  Do we believe that He really is in control and can direct our lives?  Obviously WHAT we believe is important.  But what if I am unsure.  Assurance in the 1st allows me peace in the goodness and direction of God.  I also believe it allows my heart to be open to HIS direction.

Concerning doing His will.  Yes God wants us to do His will.  But he doesn't want us to be puppets.  Nor does He want us to afraid to step out.   He wants us to be at peace.
What is of primary importance:
    - The desire to do His will
    -  Maintaining our fellowship with Him - communion.
    -  Loving the Brethern.
Look at the Gospels.  The disciples made so many mistakes.  He lead, corrected and LOVED them.

If you find yourself uneasy or unsure can you gently turn that to Him.
This is not a selfers prayer thing.  This is not a method.  Can you turn your heart to Him who indwells it and be at peace knowing He knows, He loves, He directs.

I really believe that if we are trusting HIM ( WHO HE IS ) and we make a mistake - call it missing HIS specific will - He will bring us back into alignment.
How many times do you think that we may miss His will during a day?
I don't know.  God meets us where we are.
Haven't you sometimes looked back and said "Man I sure missed it there"  but during the time you didn't see it.  Was God directing?  I think so.

I think something all assemblies are facing and need radical change.
I know I do.  We become so production orienated.  Or we get so freaked about taking a mis-step.  Do you remember when you were 1st saved.  I do.   Everything was different.  Christ was real.  I touched and tasted heaven.  I was NOT self absorbed.   I was in love.
Christ had saved me and he was in my heart.  I think that is the 1st love thing.  I got away from that and all the victory I knew, all the liberty, all the joy disappeared.  I became more and more self-absorped.
Brother He loves you,  all He asks is that you give Him your heart.
He indwells you and wants to lead you.
My son give we your heart.   He will do the rest.  It is HIS job.

I know I haven't given SPECIFIC answers.  HE is the answer.  Our need is His opportunity.  By the way - HE IS THE WILL OF GOD.  Think about it.

I know this reply is sorely lacking.  It is my sincere desire that it is an encouragement to point you to HIM who not only is in Heaven but
has given you a priceless gift to indwell you.

Lord bless you brother

i think the basic point tom was trying to make is that the process of finding gods will concerning marriage could easily include dating. you are still thinking of this debate in terms of two 'opposing' points of view:
1) god has one perfect partner for you and to find that partner you just need to ask god.
2) you should date several people that you find appealing in order to get to know them better and see if you want to marry them

what tom is saying (correct me if i didn't get it correctly tom) is that these two processes can operate very much the same. if god does have one particular mate for you, you are not going to find out who that mate is by praying in an ivory tower and miraculously seeing her name and phone number written in the stars (nor by simply asking the leading bros!). you will find her by maintaining your walk with god, seeking his will as you go, and spending time with females you find attractive who are compatible with your perspectives and beliefs. its not healthy to second-guess yourself out of fear of 'getting it wrong' to the point that you avoid ever spending time alone with a female. you are not going to hurt them by getting to know them better, and dating them will only help clarify to you whether or not a serious relationship with them could be god's will.

a lot of equally goofy thinking surrounded the assembly's stance on dancing. there are as many different kinds of dancing as there are dating, and the vast majority of dancing is not sex with your clothes on. it is enjoying music, the beauty of moving with the rhythm, the company of your friends. or maybe just bouncing up and down cause you like the song  :) with dating and dancing and a whole bunch of other things the only way to defuse your fear of it is to find out what it is like for yourself. if its not for you then so be it. just don't let geftakys goofiness cause you to fear perfectly harmless and healthy pasttimes.

Ok, a lot of what Gary is saying is all well and good but does it apply to females too. Speaking as one myself I wanted to know what people think the woman's role is now that things have changed. Are we still supposed to just wait to be asked (is that even biblical)? If so than that kinda leaves us in the same rut as before. I'm not complaining if it is biblical, I'm just curious.

Do you believ that God only speaks to the man about approaching someone? I'm still referring to courting (not being a dater and all).

Any comment are welcome.

Brian,

Just wanted to clarify. I really wasn't posting in the context of dating vs. courtship. To me, they're almost the same thing anyway. I was talking about God's will in the context of much more than dating, basically the context of life's decisions. This happened to come up in the dating thread.

I'm not in a position to comment about dating/courtship/love/valentines/hearts personally. As I get older, I'll learn more.

Peace

After reading all of the replys in this thread, I find that people all have different views on what dating is, what's allowed, what we should do...

I grew up believing that dating was a sin, that we are not supposed to give our emotions to someone else so freely. I was told that "some guy" was going to "find the Lord's will" and come and ask me to spend time with him (ending up in marriage). I always wondered who this guy would be. I wondered what would happen if I didn't like him, would I even be given the chance again to marry someone in the assembly. I was given information that sent me running in circles.

The good thing that came out of it, however, was that I didn't face the dreaded "break-ups" in Jr high and HS. My friends would have devistating moments every week when their bf/gf would break up with them for some other beautiful girl/boy. When I reached college, I moved out of my parents house and faced reality. I had no street smarts, what it took to live in the real world. All I had was God to help me thru it all. I faced so many problems, but "grew-up" so quickly.

It was then that I found what seemed to be the right guy for me. I "dated" him for 2 and a 1/2 years. I was ready to marry this guy. But, I didn't find God's peace about it. I broke off my relationship with him so that I could find myself, and see what God wanted me to do. During this time, this man proved himself to be someone else. He lied to me, and many thing came out that shocked me. Here I was ready to marry a man who I thought was one thing, and ended up with someone completely different.

Shortly after, I met a Christian man, one who had his priorities straight. He was not looking for a "dating" relationship, but was looking for someone that would eventually become his wife. He was looking for someone to share his life with, and his belief in God.  We became good friends, then best friends. We have been seeing each other for over a year and a half. We find out more and more about each other every day. If I had been out "dating around" and seeking out relationships with many guys, I would have never met him. We are waiting till we graduate to make any lifetime commitments...

I thank God for leading me in this direction, and for saving me from what my friends went thru growing up.

For all those young assembly kids out there... seek out what God wants for you. It may be different from what it shown to someone else. The world has their own version of "dating", so don't get caught up in that because it will only bring you hurt and pain. Talk to your parents. They have gone thru alot themselves and could give you pointers. Most of all, don't rush into it, take your time. It ends so much better that way.
 :)

I have been thinking about this a lot, and i agree with you.  I have always thought of dating in the conotations of a secularistic relationship, but upon careful thought, it doesnt have to mean this.  My brother, you are forcing me to think :)



I have heard the "dancing is comparable to standup sex" comment quite a lot over the years, but i like what you are saying about how it can just be enjoyment of the music.  Granted, i am not a dancer in any respect so this is a rather null point for me, but w/e

Any thoughts on the question I posed earlier on the woman's role in all of this?  ???

Yes but what about if that brother still hold the belief that the woman shouldn't start it? And also what if that person is already a friend whom you've known for a while?

Dear Newbie

Simple reply:  NO.  You can't approach men.   Men rule.  DON'T HIT ME.
I AM JUST KIDDING.
MAYBE OTHERS - ESPECIALLY WOMEN - WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT ON THIS.

If you are yeilded to the Lord, seeking Him, seeking to honor Him in all things.  If you are modest - not brash - seeking purity in a relationship, then why not.  This also assumes you have had some dealing with the said person and therefore have past history to go on.
There is one difference.  We men can be easily swayed by a women.  A women can easily turn a man's head.  I speak in generalities.  So in that light, be careful
Also, he or she that 1st reveals their heart must be willing to accept the other person's reply.
Before I was a Christian and met Linda I had always did the dating chess thing.  You know what I mean?  Cleverly find out the others position before risking.  God turned all that updside down.  It was mostly mean always taking the 1st step.  OUCH.  But I needed that.  I needed to learn to risk and reveal my heart.  
Linda did give me some initial encouragements.  Actually our opinions differ on that but it did help at times.  
She was modest but by no means a passive puppet.
I don't have any specific scripture - only scriptures that point to living the Christian life.  "Do all to the glory of God, etc,etc."  Can you show interest in another in a God glorfiying way?  

Questioning brings up some good..uh..questions. DOes anyone who is still involed with the assemblies know if the assembly's view on this has changed at all?  Not to be exclusive or anything, I think we could all benefit from anyones thoughts on this. ;D

Hi Laura

     I'm still in Fullerton.  Has anyone's view changed on this.  I don't know.  I would be surprised if this doesn't.  I would be it would be the natural outgrowth of many changes.


Now. If one believes the past assembly structure was this.

If you come into fellowship here, then you only spend time with those in fellowship here.  Outside Christians are exclude unless they come into the local gathering
If you are a women then you are limited to men in fellowship in one of the assemblies.  God could not lead you into a relationship with a Godly man in another fellowship thus removing you.
If you are born in one of the assemblies then your scope is that of one of the assemblies.  These are just observations not complaints.

My experience:  I am an odd ball.
I met Linda before coming into Fullerton assembly.  We were friends for 2/3 of year.
I start fellowshipping at assembly in Nov - Linda doesn't BUT God begins bringing us together.
From Nov to April - when I asked Linda to marry me, I am involved in Fullerton but Linda is not.  God continues to knit our hearts together.
I had asked her out a number of times but never forced the issue.

Linda and I get engaged.  Linda - apart from me - decides God wants her to come into Fullerton.  Humbling as it may seem, I don't think it was because I was so sort of irrestible hunk.  
So God can apart outside the sphere of an assembly.

MISSBT2003  - GREAT POST - COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER.  FOR THAT MATTER COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT AS WELL

LAURA - YOUR POST CRACKED ME UP.  HANDSOME, INTELLIGENT, GODLY MAN.  WHO ABOUT HANDSOME, INTELLIGENT, GODLY HUCK OF A MAN.  JUST KIDDING.  IS THAT THE ORDER OF PRECEDENCE.  WHAT DO US BROS. PUT FOR THE SISTERS.  GORGEOUS, NOT DOWN DEAD,
INTELLIGENT, WITTY, GODLY DISH OF A SISTER.  "JUST KIDDING"
IT WAS A GOOD POST BUT REALLY GAVE ME A SMILE.  THANKS

I think its a fallacy to assume that God has only one possible person for you to marry.  There may be many compatible possible marriage partners out there that God approves of.  Those who believe that God has only one person for them are operating under one of two fallacies.  First, that the extent that God can work in your life is dependent upon another person (your spouse) rather than your own obedient response to His will.  Secondly, that God has a SPECIFIC will for everything.  Let me qualify that with an example.  When I wake up in the morning I don't immediately seek God's will on what breakfast cereal I should eat.  That would be silly.  The Bible does not say anything about breakfast cereal choices.  Neither does it say how one should go about finding a spouse, other than we should do it in purity.  The point is, SOMETIMES IT IS GOD'S WILL THAT WE MAKE A CHOICE.  THAT'S WHY HE GAVE US BRAINS AND FREE WILL.

Dear Questioning:

From my perspective as a man (brother), one thing I don't appreciate is when half a dozen people or more tell you whom they think you should marry (always the same person, in my case) and then put pressure on you to do it, without knowing your financial situation or whether or not you're fit to be a husband.  I'm not saying that God can't work that way, but I look for His word in the Word as well as through other people.  I must admit, though, that I have difficulty in "claiming promises" for this particular thing--

By the way, Questioning, in which assembly are you in fellowship?  If you are who I think you are we need to talk.

Matt Sciaini

Maybe I'm off or something, but I don't think God has selected a certain someone to be one's husband/wife.  I think He gives us a lot of promises and feedback on what one's marriage partner will be like.  You can't look in the Bible and find the name of a potential mate!

I wasn't quite done yet...be patient with me!  :D

What is a date?  To me, a date is going out with someone of the opposite sex, to talk and fun togather, maybe going out to dinner or mini-golfing, etc.  It doesn't have to end in immorality!!  And there doesn't need to be any stirring up of emotions.  Maybe it is because of my age (29), but my emotions aren't necessarily stirred up.  Sometimes I may make a new friend.  There have been men who have been interested in marriage.  For that, there needs to be time of seeking God and getting to know the person.  I don't think talking on the phone is a good way to really get to know someone who is interested in marriage.  I prefer face-to-face contact.  You may find that that particular person is not your type, or has some character flaws that you can not put up with.  So, you move on with your life.  Done deal.

The world's idea of dating is totally different...

Any input?  Again, this is my opinion, and my conviction before God.  :D

Matt Sciani,

How did your post go on the board under my name?

Tom M.

A Yiddish saying:

"A man chases a woman until she catches him". Selah.

Another saying - not necessarily Yiddish :

"Even a blind dog finds a bone once in a while"

Harr, Harr, aye, matees  ;) ;)

A necessary explanation ensues:

"blind dog" does not refer to women or men.
It refers to certain individuals.

I speak in code - call me secret squirrel  ;D

Dang Verne, you're right. :-[ :)  She does have the ULTIMATE decison. Technically, however, she can't choose to marry me unless I first choose to marry her as well.  And given that in today's society many (although increasingly fewer) women are uncomfortable in chasing after guys, guys have even more power in the decision.  Not only does he choose if he's going to "pop the question," he also chooses who he is going to persue in light of marriage.

Dear Tom:

I'm sorry, brother---I'm not sure myself how I posted under your name.  I have been trying to register for awhile and still don't know how to do it.

Forgive me--it was a mistake. :P

Matt Sciaini

Ben,

In Africa there is a tribe where the men are on display and
the women pick their husband.

In New York, the women pick up the guys in bars.

Yes, yes, these are carnal examples. However, in reality
if people admit it or not, the woman makes the final choice.
The poor guy goes through the agony of searching, talking
to people and then asking - bang, shot down again. A
friendly word of advice: don't buy a engagement ring
before you know the woman you are courting wants
to marry you. Just trying to save you some heartache bro.  8)

Don't worry, I won't. ;)  For one thing, I'm a pretty cautious person and don't like to take unecessary risks.  Also, you're assuming I have enough game to get a woman to allow me to court her.  :D

Don't look at that as a problem.
Consider it a blessing.
If I tried to explain that right now,
Hooo boy, would there be some
posts !  :o

Hi folks,

People that feel dating is wrong basically believe this is true because the Bible doesn't tell us to do so.
The wisdom issues are built on this base.

The problem with this idea is two-fold.
1. The usual alternative suggested is "courtship".  The problem with this is that it seems to be nothing more than dating wisely.  How do you know you wish to marry, or even think about marrying someone you don't know?

2. The "Biblical" alternative is having parents arrange marriages.  That what was done in both OT and NT times.
In the assembly and in similar groups, the group's leaders somehow think they are authorized by God to stand in the place of parents, assuming that this really is the "Biblical" way.

I really don't think dating is even avoidable.  In my assembly years  there was a common joke.  Where is brother John?  Oh, he and sister Jane are out on a d.........spending time together.

Tom

Dating is great !I love dating! (as an ex AK) With my significant other now, we would not have been able to get to a serious place in our relationship without "dating". We needed not to come into it with high expectations.
  this theological wrangling I think avoids some of what rudy and Tom have helpfully brought up: In the majority of biblical societies marriages were arranged-- the concept of love never entered in. It was a business deal sealing a relationship between two families. Not to say that love didnt come out of these arrangments. Interestingly enough, and you can correct me on this, but I dont think Jesus ever preached against arranged marriages. Jesus also never explicitly condemned slavery for that matter. Yet we find these practices reprehensible. He did preach love your enemies, which our current administration, notwithstanding  its invocation of Christ's blessing on the current war on terror, seems to be ignoring. Just food for thought.
 
                                       peace and blessings,
                                          Nate

I agree with you Nate Dogg.  There is much depth in the relationship I am having with my current male friend.  We could never experience the depths that we have experienced unless we really got to know each other first.

This happens in cities (and towns, and villages..) all over, not just NY!  ;D

Uh...I live in New York, and I have never even been in a bar. let alone picked up someone in a bar!  Sorry to burst your bubble! ;D

Well if you've never been in a New York bar that
would disqualify you as a witness, eh ?  :D

Keep it that way, stay clean  ;D

Speaking of dating, . . .

  In my experience, the Assembly taboo on dating went way beyond just not dating. I had the impression that if I even talked to a brother at the meetings too much, that would be wrong. The result was that I knew guys outside the Assembly much better than the ones in it, in spite of seeing the Assembly brothers almost every day.
  What about never having a guy in your house. . . unless it was an older, married brother who was counseling you? That's a double standard. Of course, the brothers would always agree to meet somewhere other than my house if I called them on it.  
   I also felt pretty hypocritical talking to unsaved guys or new guys on the phone for hours "for outreach purposes" and then avoiding ever talking to Assembly brothers on the phone.   I'm not making this up. Once a guy got comfortable talking to the LB's, I was supposed to stop the phone conversations, but before that, I was "serving the Lord" by telephoning with these men. :-\ I was wrong to go along with such obvious manipulation of the outside brothers/potential Christians.  :(
  Now, I feel free to hang out with guys and don't worry too much about whether or not it's a "date." I just keep myself pure and get to know new people.

Does anyone remember what book we went thru in SLO about dating? Uh, yea, a meeting I must have uh, um, missed...

Heide

P.S. Thanks Rudy for chosing NY and not California women!

I do remember a sisters meeting that Betty led. The main thing that I walked away with is that a married womans focus is her husband and a single womans focus ought to be getting married. Needless to say I didn't stick around for the end of the meeting. Being a single woman I couldn't imagine marrying a man out of the assembly. What!?! Being told what to do.....

How did dating get to be so wrong? From what I have read about Tim G he dated LOTS.

Heide

Heide,

  I think this is an issue of control. If they control who/if you get married, they have a huge hold on you. If they can get you to marry someone highly commited to them, they can strengthen their hold on you. Also, if you are single, not dating, with no close friends of the opposite sex, then you are bound to be unhappy and stressed. Unhappy, stressed people are easier to manipulate than secure, happy people.

  Heather

Heather,

I can't agree with you more. Relationships are tools in the hands of the
manipulators. I remember Ed Malone telling me that in a workers meeting
in Omaha they were trying to get his wife Linda, to turn against him. That
was probably the last straw for them. I'm glad they are out - since 1989.
I hate to think of what other schenanigans have been going on behind the
'closed doors' of the workers' meetings. And you know what, they would
never say anything about nothing when it came to those meetings.

Yo Heide,

We went thru a book called WHY I KISSED DATING GOODBYE.  It was pretty good book, but as usual, the Assembly took it one step further than the author meant.  If I remember correctly, the author says that although he doesn't believe in dating, and will not date, he DOES NOT believe dating is a sin.  Of course the leadership forgot to mention that part...  ;)

Rudy,

  That's awful. That doesn't sound like love, much less "God's best." (This isn't a comment on their marriage--just the leaders' idea of making sure we get "God's best" in our marriages.)

  And Eulaha, if you read Josh Harris's second book, he goes to great pains to elaborate on dating not being sin. He tries to pull the emphasis back more toward purity rather than dating vs. courtship. It's a heart thing not a Christian formula (Do this, do that, in order, presto, GOD'S BEST!), amen?

  Heather

Amen sis!  Aren't you glad we are free from the law?  We talked about it in the Assembly, and sang songs about it, yet we lived according to the law!  I date, and I'm fine with it, cause God is in the picture.  My guy is a believer, and loves the Lord!  Thank you Jesus! :)

"I do not believe that dating is sinful.  Some people have sinned as a result of dating, but I don't think anyone can accurately say that dating in and of itself is a sinful activity.  I view dating in a similar light as I view fastfood restaurants.  It's not wrong to eat there, but something far better is available."  Elisabeth Elliot
Tuesday, September 08, 1998
Teenage Temptations
Forget About Dating

Arlene,

  I have to say I disagree with this quote. I know that I'm different from most people, so maybe what's good for me isn't good for you. In my case, I've been withdrawn from men most of my life. Also, I don't have any brothers or sisters. Since I didn't date or hang out with guys in the Assembly, I had no idea what they were like. It has been extremely valuable for me since I've gotten out to spend time getting to know the opposite sex. It's helped me to be more comfortable around men in general, to learn that they're all different and HUMAN, just like women, and to not run into unrealistic expectations every time a guy smiles at me. People really do look great from a distance, but a lot of times, once you get to know them, you realize you don't fit. For me, the courtship idea demands too much commitment from the outset. I need the freedom to just hang and get to know lots of different guys. I'm not endorsing promiscuity--just meeting casually to get to know people.
  That's my 2 cents.

  Heather

Heather;
The quote is from someone I respect, that does not mean I agree 100% with her.
I have teenagers and I am not stoping them from spending time to get to know the opposite sex.   I agree with your point on, "the freedom to just hang and get to know lots of different guys".
Now that we are attending a Church in town my daughter has said, "this means now I can marry someone who's not in the assembly".  ;D   Not that she is ready right now. :)
Arlene :)

Arlene,

  I hope my post didn't offend. It wasn't meant to. I just wanted to soften the metaphor a bit. "Fast food" is harsh. Fast food is unquestionably bad for you, whereas, in my case, I feel that dating has been good. In fact, it's been essential for me to regain perspective on myself, men and relationships. My background is one of hostility and fear toward men from early on, and I met the saints when I was 16, further increasing my isolation from men.
  The Assembly allowed me to deceive myself into believing I was avoiding men in order to be godly, when in truth, I was avoiding men because of leftover fear from my childhood. Mislabeling my reason for not dating allowed me to avoid the truth that there was a wound from my past that needed healing. Now that I've ignored the problem for so long, it's that much harder to fix, but by God's mercies, I've met some nice men and been privileged to spend time with them, learning to let go of my anger and fear toward the opposite sex and open into healthy, pure relationships.
  Besides helping me deal with my feelings toward men, dating has helped me to learn to be "in the world, not of the world" again. It was much simpler for me to hide behind the Bible. Dating is messy and imprecise and hard, but so is life. And that's the point for me. Accepting that relationships are hard has been a part of my acceptance that God doesn't remove all difficulties once we enter the Christian life. Dating has moved me closer to the truth about God!
  Arlene, I think you and I are pretty much of the same opinion--just expressing ourselves differently-- so please don't see this post as an argument. I just wanted to share a little more of my story in the hopes that it will help someone else. Maybe there are other girls out there who are hiding from life behind a Bible instead of dealing with their real problems.

  Good night!
  Heather

It did not offend.  :) :) :)
I enjoy hearing and reading others view on dating.  These days a mom can use any help she can find.  :)

Heather---

Thanks for your post. I too have avoided men thinking it was  the godly thing to do. Or maybe avoiding men was
something leftover from my childhood. In the Assembly I wasn't allowed to date men......hey wait a minute, what the heck am I saying?? ;D ;D ;D

--Joe

Yeah, yeah,yeah.  ::)  ;D