AssemblyBoard

  Last Thursday I met a couple who were into "Native American Religion"  At first I just enjoyed fellowship, you know we chatted about Joseph Cambell, Black Elk and Carlos Castinteta, yet as the conversation went on I could tell that the husband "Good Black Heart" wasn't just content to accept me as I was. He kept preaching at me. "The truth is......."  "In the beginning...."  "When God speaks to you then you won't need anyone to tell you!"  "You will know it!"  I tried to be polite and nice about it. "I agree with everything you say dude!"  Yet this wasn't enough, he gave me his card and strongly encouraged me to contact him so I could learn "The Native American Path!" O.K. let's be honest. As a Christian I did this all the time!  I just assumed people I met were not "enlightened" as I was. I assumed that they needed to be "discipled" to know the truth better. We all have had other Christians do the same to us. (probably how you came into fellowship into the assembly!),  But it has been on a rare occasion that someone from a different religion will take this stance with me. (A mormon, J.W.  suedo Christian maybe) but not Muslim, buddhist, etc...   How about you?  Has anyone ever tried to convert you outside the Christian faith?  Did you get the feeling, "This person is whacko?" 

By far the most of one group that has tried to convert me has been atheists. A few Hare Krishnas and a couple of Muslims, but more atheists than anyone else. No, I didn't think they were wacko. Most were very earnest, sincere and desperately in need of Christ. Some are my dearest friends. (Guess who got "converted?")

funny I have never had an athesit come up to me and start preaching. Tell me about it!  Did they have a tract?  The four skeptic laws?
1. There is no God and he doesn't love you!
2. There is no purpose or meaning to life.
3. People who think there is a meaning to life are wrong!
4. This is the meaning of life!

Yes I have been handed atheist tracts. Most are full of Bible verses that show "contradictions." And most of those were very easily refuted by anyone with only a scant knowledge of scripture. And while I have been approached in public by a few atheists, most who have tried to convert me were friends. Foremost among them was the most loveable of atheists, my father.

Having been surrounded by atheists in this way it was easy to realize that their zealousness was energized by a conflict with the very One they try so hard to deny. All have had some sort of truama and their philosophy has become "If God is so good, why did He allow...?" And they divorced themselves from their Creator with all divorce entails, bitterness, anger, accusation. I have been blessed to witness several atheists come back to the Lover of their souls. I'm working on another one now. They like to stay in the attack and mock mode because, really, they have very few answers to our exisitence in the cosmos and trying to counter millenia of human thought and experience is a daunting task.   

Jem, did an atheist just walk up to you out of the blue?  While you were minding your own business?  This is a mindblower!  Where do you live?

I am a So Cal gal.

I live in Rancho Santa Margarita. I attended Cal State Fullerton and am currently taking classes at SDU. Yet no one has ever aproached me? Who are you?  Do I know you??  Where did these atheist approach you????  What did their tracts say???

Their tracts, like I said before, were mostly Bible verses they considered contradicitons, but most of those "contradictions" took a leap in thinking to make and were rather easily refutable. I did see one that was quotations from some big names saying there was no God. The tone sort of came across as since Marx and Voltaire are bigger than you, you must be wrong. Again that would be easy to counter with quotes from, say, Paschal and Einstien. They were funny tracts. The invitation, so to speak, was to just agree that there was no God, but then what?

Mostly atheists approached me after a Christian event--a Billy Graham Crusade, Harvest Crusade, church service, etc. So the question of whether I was minding my own business is interesting. It was not like I was at the grocery store. I did find at these events that Christians were much more willing to engage the "evangelical" atheists than most people on the HB pier would have been back in our assembly days.

Dave, how do you live in Rancho Santa Margarita on a teacher's salery? And what's a good Unitarian doing at a Catholic university? I'm kidding, of course.

--Wendy Hinman
 

Hi Wendy!  I married up!!!!   ;D

Wellllll,

Other than Dave Mauldin, no.   ;)

Thomas Maddux

David, to refresh your memory, you and I didn't exactly have a chat. During the brouhaha between Brent and Lenore, you emailed me with an idea for a new bulletin board, with a different set of rules from this one. You described what you saw as the function of moderator on the new board and said you didn't think Tom would be the right one. I agreed with you.

I deplore that Tom sometimes treats you and a few others with contempt on this board. But I don'tt appreciate being used by you in your attempts to combat that. If I have something to say to Tom, I will say it directly.

In the case of Tom's post on this particular thread, I think your response is too touchy. You have given your atheist "testimony" on this board, and you have to admit that testimonies are a potent part of evangelism. You set yourself up for this one, and Tom humorously points this out.

Although I was saved at around seven years, I have always had a great interest in religion and read widely on the topic. In my years of exploratory wandering I became very interested in the Ba'Hai philosophy. I thought the people who first talked to me about it were some of the nicest people I had ever met. I also really enjoyed the music of Seals and Croft (still do!).
One of the hardest things for Christians to learn is how to be gracious.
Having said that, the indifference of some people to sharing the gospel message with those who have not heard it makes one wonder if some of us truly believe what the Bible says is at stake.
I am convinced that one of the reasons that the angels in heaven rejoice over the conversion of each sinner is not only elation over what the sinner is saved to, but equally so what he is saved from...
Verne

Aw!! I just feel so sorry for those poor poor  Workers.  They really got the raw end of the deal with George eh??

What I am puzzled at is why they would email you David.

And where are all those skeptics?  I kept the 'skeptics again' thread free of my comments in anticipation of hearing from them.

Marcia
(I'm not supposed to be posting here anymore :-[ )

Margerite I appologize and repent! Vern I attended a Bahi meeting a few years ago. It was a group of very nice people who were clean and well dressed. (Just like the assembly) They had a meal afterwards. It was persian food? (This was suppose to be significant somehow.) I remember that on one hand they were supose to be open to all religions yet they believe their religion was the only one for this time period. (similar to Christianity in that Christians will point to other religions and say they are "enlightened" ie Plato etc..) Some guy kept talking at me in the most serious intense way!  "You got to embrace what I am saying."  Yet I have had enough of dogma/religion.  Marcia I gave up on the skeptic thread because "Believers" kept jumping in with their two cents.  Tom deleted the first guy who tried to share about his experience because he shared he was gay. It is to bad that there seems to be no room on this board for people who are different. Yet their are ton of people out there who would benefit from chatting. Have you ever visited a dieing church?  It always has one guy who is basically responsable for "holding up the principles of our beliefs!" In other words this guy doesn't like anyone crowding out his space, authority, control, power. Yes I have been contacted by former workers who are not believers anymore. Because of what they have seen going on they don't want to share openly.

I do not know and do not want to know what Tom deleted, but to be fair to Tom this is what he said as to the reason he deleted Shin's post:

I do not always agree with Tom's methods either.  IMO Brian is an excellent moderator.  It is unnecessary to have Tom and Mark moderate as well.  However, I am not (supposed to be) a frequent poster any more, so ....

David, this BB is dying because people want to express their opinions without honest discussion.  Kind of like the Democrat/Republican debates at election time.  Almost everyone's already settled in their camps, and no one's budging from their POV.

If your skeptic emailees don't want to have a discussion, then a BB is definitely not the place for them.  They should join a former-Geftakys-assembly-now-skeptic support group.  The thing that gets me about most-not-all Geftakys Workers is that they were so zealous to uphold the vision, and now they are cowering under the "poor me" umbrella.  They could 'take it' from George and remain faithful to him, but they cannot take a little, or a lot of, criticism from the BB or any individual that would dare to suggest that they were/are wrong.  The labels "hypocrites" and "cowards" comes to mind.  Of course I am just one of those bitter disgruntled former members eh??

Marcia

Just my 50$ to add-in. If people had anthing significant to say, they would say it and not care what TM or anyone else thinks. David you say all these people want to post,yet in your next sentance you say they refuse to post so it's really contradictory. Which is it? Tom is on vacation and posted a joke from the library,plus he was gone awhile finishing school, and none of these people you know waiting in the wings contributed to the board, abeit you say they read here. I agree the fighting that went on was terrible, and at times I would rather do anything then go on this board or read it for that matter. Yet why would they care what anyone else thinks ?They should be able to stand on their own two feet don't ya think. And Tom is usuallly fair in an argument ( his bark is usually bigger then his bite) I know I'm a little off topic here, so yes someone did try to convert me to Judism ,a real soft-sell I said I would if I did'nt think Jesus was the Messiah...got to love my Jewish friends.  Summer.

On another bb where I post there seems to be a lot more room for discussion going on all the time.  They have a window for people who want to debate religion, politics etc... they have a window for people who want to discuss art, books, movies, sex,  etc...  wish this bb would have been open to more people and their views. It could of had a "believers" window,  "an unbelievers" window, a "vent" window  (place where people could take out their frustrations)  A "forgiveness" window, a "memories" window a place where pictures could be posted. etc...  I think that it had that potential at one time but now the 496 other registered have moved on!!!  When we first started this bb it was an opportunity to reach people from the assembly. After a few months Tom showed up. Not long afterwards I began noticing some really arrogant condesending post from him. He came accross like he was this know-it-all theologin.  Funny thing he had nothing to do with the start of this bb. He had nothing to do with the Rick Ross bb or any of the articles on the Rick Ross site. Yet??? He is "moderator"???  A moderator who doesn't do anything to Brent yet jumps all over Shin at the mention of his being gay!  The truth is this bb would be barely alive if I didn't prod discussion from you 4! can't we do better?

David---

I think you might be surprised if when you first enter the BB you scroll down to where
it says "Users online". Sometimes there may only be a couple of members, but sometimes
you'll see several "guests" and some "members" who don't post very often. It's true there
are only a few regular posters. But a great many "guests" visit this board. When you check
who's on line you can also see what thread they are reading, etc.  Believe me, you are not
the only thing keeping the BB alive. Visitors seem to come and go--sometimes there is a
lot more traffic than other times, and usually the guests are reading older threads, and
catching up on things they haven't read before.

Also, if you go back and visit threads, there are a variety of discussions going on that don't
necessarily have to do with belief or unbelief. I just thought I'd mention this, because I have
been visiting the BB virtually since it started.

Thanks, Joe

David, It sounds like you could start your own bb, your ideas are good and you do start most of the threads here. Personally  I've read enough assm stories to last a lifetime, but maybe your old friends could vent on your board with-out fear, they could even use a psedonom if they want to keep their privacy personally and professioally. I've pretty much lost interest here after reading and posting and then all the arguments it's not really worth the effort. If I do post it's because something catches my attention I can't stand how some people here just re-peat the past over and over, so the other topics like Iraq and this one have been the only ones of interest to me. Thanks David.  Summer.

This BB dwindled from 500 to 10 because it went through a natural cycle.  When I left the Assembly, there was a big group of us who often got together because we had a strong need to discuss what happened, what we were involved in, and how to look at the church outside the Assembly.  We didn't have the internet back then, but we got together whever we could, visited other churches, talked late into the night at restaurants, etc.

Over, time, we began to get involved in new churches (or new activities if church wasn't a part) and we all gradually drifted apart.  In short, we got on with our lives.  A few would get together and talk about Assembly issues, but that was rare.  Either we developed a friendship based upon commonalities apart from the Assembly, or we simply drifted apart.

This is what happened with this BB.  When George's empire fell, there was a need to compare notes, discuss, process our feelings, discuss issues.  People rushed here and particiapated actively because these happenings were vital and raw.  It is now over two years later.  Most folks have moved on.  They are settled in new churches or have left the church completly.  There isn't a need to hop on the board to "find out the latest" or to discuss headcoverings.

The few that remain probably do so for reasons other than our Assembly past.  Some may want to sharpten their debating skills.  Others may want to convert others to their cause or perspective.  Another may want to jerk folk's chain and get a lively argument going.  Another may just want someone to talk to.  Another may have a genuine desire to shepherd.

But most people stay away because there is no longer a strong need to process our Assembly past anymore.  The majority of these people do not have a need in their life to build relationships online or discuss issues in cyberspace.  Most people still do these interpersonal things face-to-face.

I can think of several people who relate to others on the board in such a way that causes others to take offence and leave (this person is too gruff, this person is too confrontational,  this person hogs all the posts with boring stuff, etc.)  At times, I would stop posting for a week or too if things got too annoying.  But, there is no substantial argument that few post here due to the actions of any one individual.  I believe that folks are not posting here primarily for reasons explained above.

Really well said Dave. (like Brent said when I found this board people get bored, lose interest and move-on.) Except for those of us who like to practice writing and voicing our strong opinions. And remember God was never meant to be your Lucky Rabbits foot! Although he is Faithful he will not be manipulated by those who are actively puttting Him to the test! Matt 4:7" It is wriiten again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Jesus speaking to the Devil!   Summer.

Dave,

You said,

This is a falsehood David.

I made two requiests of Shin:

1. Don't start attacking and accusing the folks who post here.
2. Observe the social convention that we do not discuss our sex lives in public.

In his first post Shin did both.  So...I deleted most of what he said, and warned him.

He then started complaining about his "rights" being abused.  And, as far as I know, (I am out of touch most of the time right now), he hasn't been back.

Apparently those were the things he wanted to do.

Thomas Maddux

"Once we got rid of God, we could do anything."  Herman Goering, quoted by Albert Sheer.

Folks,

On the subject of this board "dying" or "dwindling."

Check the stats for the number of hits.

It seems to me that one might use different adjectives for  a BB that has had over 100,000 hits for three months in a row.

Flourishing, perhaps?   ::)

Thomas Maddux

Well according to David M you Tom have scared away 511 people from posting. Hilarious!

Summer, I am being honest when I tell you that two former workers said they couldn't post because of the venemous crap going on at this bb. I never said 511 people e-mailed me.  I simply asked the question where are they? I can't buy that this is what a bb should look like. You have a handful of "friends" who stick by each other and gang up on anyone who threatens you. "Oh my God a Homosexual"  "A democrat"  "A libral" "A Welfare recipiant " "Pre-mid-post tribulationist" Get em!!!!  You think I am making this crap up???  Just scroll back and read it.  Do you want to see a real bb???

 http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html (http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html)

Dave,  I modified your post.  The guys who run this site get more hits than we do.  They really know what they are doing.  Pass this info on to your worker friends

  Hope this helps.

O.K.  I can hear people saying things like "There are more people on that site because!!!!"  The truth is these people know what they are doing. If you think I am full of s#$# then let me have control over this board. If I can't turtn it around in 6 months then I will concede I am full of s$#$.

Tom how do you explain so many lurkers "100,000 hits" but only 5 no 7  posters???  Sounds like the saints at Grace Bible Chapel.  "We only have 30 people at this church but 100,000 people drive by every day!::) Tom how many threads have you started in the last three months??   ZERO! How many did you contribute to in a positive way???  ZERO!


O.K. folks I am gone for awhile. Vacationing to Yosemite and Caveing moaning Cavern Adventure tour!!  I know you wont take me up on the challange so I will probably move on. Maybe I will start my own bb. Who knows??? The asssembly was more than just a f%$$%^ up time we all went through. we deserve much more than what this bb has offerred. I feel I have made some lifelong friends through this bb.To this I am grateful  Shin I am really sorry how you were treated!  Hope we can get together soon. To my yeah, yeah, yeah friend hope we can hook up next time!  To my Just-Me friend please stay in chat! To my Washington friend "Keep working at it! That goes for any other lurkers out there!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  GAWD BLESS YOU REAL GOOD!!!

David, Have fun on your vacation. I never meant to imply you had 511 people em you. I was kind of joking, guess you did'nt get it! Anyway let your former worker friends suit themselves. I can't say I blame them for not wanting to post here if they're uncomfortable with it. Thanks for the other sites but I'm not interested this one has been enough and I don't really have the time for it now. Take-Care. Summer.

This is another case where David M is raising an arbatrary standard and then chastising us because we are not rising up to it.

I, personally, was never interested in a general-theme "let's talk about anything that pops into our head" board.  If I wanted that, I would have found one of the successful boards David M is talking about.

I came here to talk about the Assembly, related theological issues, etc.  I saw a year ago that this is dying down because (like I explained about) there isn't a great need anymore. 

1.  The fact that David is trying to convert this into a vibrant general-interest board and is failing isn't the community's fault.  It just means there isn't a demand for his product.

2.  The fact that two people don't like Tom isn't big news.   People don't post for lots of reasons (certain member's tyraids, boring posts from post-hogs, etc...)  I don't like the posts and actions of everyone on the board.  Welcome to Cyberspace.  To say that Tom is the only one out of line (and it is still debatable that he had done anything that is way out of line) is rediculous.

3.  It has been pointed out to David M that Tom had been gone for long periods (seminary, vacations - he was taking finals during the Brent tyraid, for example) and his secret friends still don't post.  Yet, he continues to repeat his same invalidated accusation.

4.  Most of the people who have left the Assembly, still tend to be closer to conservative values and still consider themselves people of faith.  There are much fewer who have gone to the liberal/secular camp.  This is why the latter is in the minority.  The fact is, people tend to post where they feel they are in the majority and their ideas will be relatively accepted.  If I were to go to a gay site and post "homosexuality is demonstratably biologically inconvenient and is a result of some sort of chemical imbalance or psycological deficiency that needs to be addressed", I would be agressively resisted - this board would look like the politeness of an British tea compared to how I would be treated. 

If one of David's secret friends wants to post on why they believe God doesn't exists, those of us who have put just as much thought into why it is evident that God does exist will post, too.  They are welcome to post and I will be polite.  But, the sentiment of this board still tends to be Christian-centric.

(This is a hard concept for Liberals, by the way, who still want to appoint judges even though they lost the elections that give them that right).

5.  The fact that David keeps posting contrary theme in the face that they are continually contradicted and invalidated tells me that David M has a kind of "missionary spirit" where he feels strongly that he wants to change the culture of this board according to his values.  He is welcome to do that and may even succeed if he convinces enough secret friends to start posting.  But, most people don't have that kind of determination.  Most people have a life and job where we make a difference and merely see the BB as a kind of side-hobby.  As a result, most tend to post on boards that are in keeping with their core beliefs.

Dave Mauldin:

Have fun on your vacation.  Hope you can have your own party and your own followers somewhere.

Matt Sciaini

Hi Everyone!

  "Dying BB"?  I read with interest Dave M's views, and others, (along with Joe's hamster ;))

  I have been on numerous BB's, most having to do with cults, but also financial one's, etc.  They all are very similar in nature, in that they attract  those with strong opinions; most try to "win" others to their point of view.

  All of these BB's go through times when there are strong arguments, and they usually become personal in nature (strong offense taken and then retalited against with a great vehemence).

  Those appearing to lose the argument then declare that the "BB is dying" and that they "will leave the BB never to return", unless the character of the BB changes to reflect their veiws.

   It is when we get all caught up in "the direction of the BB" that the discussion becomes one of process vs. an actual discussion of the issues at hand.  By continually discussing "why the BB is failing" you are assuring that nothing meaningful will be said.

  There is no way to set-up a BB with certain principles, or install a moderator, who will insure a certain level of high character, good thinking, clear writing skills, etc. to a BB.  The sum and substance of a BB is the participation of individuals willing to be sincere, honest, and thoughtful in what they present.

            How can this be achieved?

1.)  Ignore, vs. respond via chastizing poster whom are baiting, talking nonsense, or pratting on in insignificanceu]

    2) Unless it an essential issue (The Gospel, biblical morality, mistated facts) be humble in how you share your opinion.

      3.)  Recognize that we are human and don't appreciate being talked to rudely.  You can be strong in your convictions w/o being impolite in how you express.

4.) We all fail at times to abide by the above, so this means we need to be forgiving and quick to apologize.

     Whether "former workers who are afraid to post",or disgruntled present posters threaten to leave, these only mean one thing to me:  "I will not particpate unless everyone does what I want them to do on the BB :'(."   This is like the kid playing ball, who when he starts to lose, decides to take his ball and go home. 

   You must expect if you come on a public BB and post that your ideas will be subject to criticism.  If you cannot tolerate this you might ask yourself why you are so sensitive to criticism. 

  You must also know that there are those who may ridicule you, not being very sensitive individuals, who will smuggly reject your ideas as being wrong, silly, etc. 

   This is an opportunity to set aside your hurt feelings and try to sharpen your thinking and writing skills by producing a thoughtful response.    Hidden behind the harsh tone of the individual attacking your ideas may be some truths worthy of considering.  Try to resist lashing back out of your hurt feelings against those who have dismissed your argument. 

     The nature of a BB (whether living or dying) is determined by serving the greater good, vs. the supremacy of my particular views.  I see the "greater view" as discussion which serves Jesus Christ in supporting a strong and healthy recovery of former members of the Assembly, and those from similar groups.

    This purpose is not one whose time has passed.  The present (reorganized) Assemblies are moving back to GG, and some of the former members are hankering for a return to the "good ol'days" of the "heavenly vision."   There are those who may be considering joining up and they may be searching for answers as to the nature of the group.

 There will always be former members who are trapped in the despair of thinking they have failed God and who will need extensive help in finding strength to live the Christian life.  These may read here for years before being able to ever make themselves known.  For them this place has the potential to be a healing touch.  As for me, as long as I can even reach one of these I will continue to attempt to do so!!

                                                      God Bless,  Mark C.

David M,

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that Tom is arrogant and former-Geftakys-workers-turned-skeptic cannot deal with his arrogance so they are not posting here, and you really want them to.
It also looks like you "have a dream" for this BB and are disappointed that your dream is not becoming reality.

Now here's and interesting comment, "I am being honest when I tell you that two former workers said they couldn't post because of the venemous crap going on at this bb."
Former workers/leaders and present leaders will always label this BB as "venemous crap".  Pretty strong language for sensitive touchy individuals, don't you think??  Looks like a double standard too.

Anyway, my opinion, I think people like reading this BB because of the drama.  Take that away, and we have a dying BB. ;)

Marcia