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Author Topic: How long before they ban private Bible reading?  (Read 5870 times)
outdeep
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« on: November 11, 2005, 06:39:54 pm »

How long before they ban private Bible reading?

By Mark Tapscott

Nov 11, 2005


Americans’ First Amendment freedoms of speech and religion have never been more threatened than they are today, particularly for people who believe the Bible is sacred and its teachings worthy of study.
 
This fact would astound the Founders, many of whom fought and bled to establish freedom of speech and religion as fundamental rights of all citizens. But then John Adams and James Madison never imagined what has our public schools have become, either.

 What they’ve become in too many ways is rabidly anti-First Amendment. Consider the recent ruling of administrators at the University of Wisconsin-Eu Claire banning resident assistants in the school’s dorms from leading Bible studies in their own rooms on their own time.

 Deborah Newman, UWEC’s Associate Director for Housing and Residence Life, banned such studies because some students might think the resident assistants were “unapproachable.” Newman told one of the resident assistants that he must “be available to your residents both in reality and from their perspective.”

Newman made it clear that resident assistants who insisted on exercising their First Amendment right to free exercise of religion would face “disciplinary action.” But resident assistant Lance Steiger refused to be intimidated.

He contacted the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, which quickly fired off a letter to UWEC’s Interim Chancellor Vicki Lord reminding her that “every university student at a public university such as UWEC enjoys the full panoply of First Amendment rights, including freedom of religion and freedom of expression.”

David French, FIRE’s President, also pointed out that just last year the same university administration office now trying to ban Bible studies was full of praise for another resident assistant who staged “The Vagina Monologues” play as an official residence hall activity, even though she admitted that activity cut her time to be available to her dorm’s residents.

Then there is the case of the Montgomery County Public Schools’ refusal to distribute take-home flyers to parents announcing after-school meetings of Child Evangelism Fellowship “because the group is evangelical and its predominate objective is proselytization.” When challenged in federal court by Christian Legal Society attorneys, the Maryland school system admitted it routinely distributed flyers for other student groups, including those with religious purposes.

"Religious speech is not second class speech under the Constitution," said CLS Litigation Counsel Timothy J. Tracey.  "This is just one more example of school officials misunderstanding the law, thinking they must censor private religious speech simply because they don't like CEF's point of view.”

Tracey filed an appeal to the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals on behalf of CEF after the school system “changed” its policy in response to a court ruling, but continued to refuse to distribute the flyers. The appeal is being assisted by the Alliance Defense Fund, an organization of attorneys devoted to defending the First Amendment, especially on issues of freedom of religion.

From Maryland we go to Montana where a Billings school system tried to silence a speaker invited to help students cope with a string of teen deaths by suicide and auto crashes. The speaker, Jarod Carpenter, was invited by the school board to address secular topics even though he was suggested the Dawson McAllister Association a Christian group that conducts youth rallies across the country.

The school board rescinded its invitation after a board member and a school system attorney expressed concern about McAllister’s religious purposes. At that point, the Rutherford Institute came to Carpenter’s defense, asking a federal court to affirm his right to speak at the school.

“Religious persons, like all others, have the right not to be discriminated against because of their beliefs or affiliations,” stated John W. Whitehead, Rutherford’s President. “School officials charged with educating our young people about our nation’s history and Constitution should be among the first to jealously guard the rights embodied in the Constitution.”

These three cases are typical of hundreds across the country in recent years in which the rights of individuals to practice the faith of their choice has been attacked by people in positions of power, often at taxpayers expense.

Question: If it damages the nation when citizens express or practice a particular faith in public, how long before the anti-First Amendment crowd decrees religion can’t be allowed in private, either? Don’t think it can’t happen here.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Find this story at: http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/marktapscott/2005/11/11/175175.html
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David Mauldin
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« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2005, 05:58:48 am »

Dave; Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, John Addams were all avowed Unitarians (I am not up on Madison)  Their concerns about freedom of speech and seperation between church and state had more to do with the majority church at the time enforcing its views on the minority, like the Quakers persecution of the Baptist. The concerns you have posted are about the use of publicly funded facilities being used for religious purposes. I have said before and will again WHERE IS ALL THE PURSECTION I CONSTANTLY HEARD ABOUT OVER AND OVER AND OVER?  I will agree with you that in many parts of the world today Christians are pursecuted and in different periods of history Christians have been unjustly and justly persecuted for their beliefs and practices. Dave tell me when have you been persecuted???  What did it involve???  Even the most obnoxious lunatic Christian in Orange County has freedom to make an ass out of himself everyday!!!  Dave let me tell you about pursecution. While driving to church this morning my wife and I had to suffer a family making "thumbs-down" gestures at us. 3 and 4 year old children being taught by their loving parents to geture at us. Why??  Because I have a bumper sticker that is anti-war!!!  Most other times I get the finger, recently a guy followed me and vandalized my car!!!  Why? these things never happened when I had a "God said it, I believe it, that settles it!"  Bumper sticker! But dude, I'm not complaining! No! I rejoice!  Just like all of the people who NOW rejoice for Rosa Parks!   At the time she refused to give up her seat, she was a commie $%$#@ but today she is a hero!   Dave Christian persecution is a pretty long way off for this country! If I am stilll around when it does I will stand up for your rights! I am so sick of all of the sermons I heard about. It is just a psycho-bable mantra that keeps you paranoid enough to believe it.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2005, 06:03:03 am by David Mauldin » Logged
Recovering Saint
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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2005, 06:41:21 am »

D. Mauldin

Please comment about religious persecution AFTER YOU READ THIS.

Church: Anti-war sermon imperils tax status

http://cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/07/antiwar.sermon.ap/index.html

Hugh
« Last Edit: November 14, 2005, 06:44:34 am by Hugh » Logged
outdeep
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2005, 06:53:43 pm »

Dave; Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, John Addams were all avowed Unitarians (I am not up on Madison)  Their concerns about freedom of speech and seperation between church and state had more to do with the majority church at the time enforcing its views on the minority, like the Quakers persecution of the Baptist. The concerns you have posted are about the use of publicly funded facilities being used for religious purposes. I have said before and will again WHERE IS ALL THE PURSECTION I CONSTANTLY HEARD ABOUT OVER AND OVER AND OVER?  I will agree with you that in many parts of the world today Christians are pursecuted and in different periods of history Christians have been unjustly and justly persecuted for their beliefs and practices. Dave tell me when have you been persecuted???  What did it involve???  Even the most obnoxious lunatic Christian in Orange County has freedom to make an ass out of himself everyday!!!  Dave let me tell you about pursecution. While driving to church this morning my wife and I had to suffer a family making "thumbs-down" gestures at us. 3 and 4 year old children being taught by their loving parents to geture at us. Why??  Because I have a bumper sticker that is anti-war!!!  Most other times I get the finger, recently a guy followed me and vandalized my car!!!  Why? these things never happened when I had a "God said it, I believe it, that settles it!"  Bumper sticker! But dude, I'm not complaining! No! I rejoice!  Just like all of the people who NOW rejoice for Rosa Parks!   At the time she refused to give up her seat, she was a commie $%$#@ but today she is a hero!   Dave Christian persecution is a pretty long way off for this country! If I am stilll around when it does I will stand up for your rights! I am so sick of all of the sermons I heard about. It is just a psycho-bable mantra that keeps you paranoid enough to believe it.
Sorry I upset or offended you.  I just thought it was unfair that the dorm RA could stage "The Virgina Monologues" but could not have a Bible study.  I'm sure you see the injustice in this as much as the examples you cite.
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Jem
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2005, 07:25:40 pm »

Daves,

I think what you have here--what RAs do in their own living quarters--is a privacy issue not a freedom of speech issue. If an RA wants to have a Bible study in their own rooms on their own time, with other consenting adults, then the government (in this case the univ. admin.) ought to stay our of their bedrooms.
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Oscar
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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2005, 12:43:23 am »

Folks,

For those of you who might not believe that persecution of Christians goes on in very real ways in the United States. a few reminders:

1. At this time open persecution, ie, jail, public whippings, etc. is not legal and, to my knowledge, doesn't happen, (yet?).  But that does not mean that persectuion does not happen at all.  It is much like racial discrimination.  It's open practice is illegal, but many decisions are made by both public and private individuals that involve such discrimination.  This especially happens in the area of employment, both in hiring and in promotion.  It happens to Christians as well.

2. Christians are constantly discriminated against by governmental bodies.  Christians who wish to rent the local school auditorium, which could have been rented quite easily by a Buddhist group or environmental club, cannot do so because of "separation of Church and State."  Christian legal defense organizations such as the American Center for Law and Justice and the Rutherford Institute have to deal with hundreds of such cases every year.  Many can be solved with letters to school boards or city councils, but some have had to be fought out in the courts. 

Years ago in Fullerton we had to take the city to court in order to make them allow us to excercise our free speech rights in Fullerton city parks!   Shocked  Seems that the city council thought a public park was not an appropriate venue for free speech!!!   Fortunately, the judge disagreed.  In one case in New York a church was not allowed to use a public park even after the city attorney lectured his own city council about the illegality of their denial of the use of the city property.  They even appealed the lower court's ruling against them until they finally lost in the higher courts!!!  If this is not persecution, what is?

3. Christians are regularly persecuted at all levels of education.  Little kids are told they cannot read their Bibles, draw a picture of Jesus, wear crosses, on and on.  As you go up through the levels, they are subjected to public ridicule.  Christians are ridiculed as ignorant fools by many teachers.

At the university level the only way a Christian can become a tenured professor is by becoming a "stealth" Christian during his years of assistant or associate professorship.  Even a world famous author and philologist, C.S. Lewis, was never granted a full professorship at Oxford University.  Finally, in his last few years, Cambridge hired him away from Oxford as a full professor.

4. Christians are openly lied about and treated stereotypically in the public media.  We are described as hate filled, unwashed cretins whose main interest in life is being killjoys who want to deny everyone their "rights".  Ministers are rarely portrayed in a positive way in movies or on tv. 

5. Almost all of us can recount stories of personal insult, exclusion or public ridicule because we are Christians.  Much of this persecution falls below the level of illegal acts.  But it is real nonetheless.

Blessings,

Thomas Maddux
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Elizabeth H
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2005, 10:47:37 am »

Even the most obnoxious lunatic Christian in Orange County has freedom to make an ass out of himself everyday!!!  Dave let me tell you about pursecution. While driving to church this morning my wife and I had to suffer a family making "thumbs-down" gestures at us. 3 and 4 year old children being taught by their loving parents to geture at us. Why??  Because I have a bumper sticker that is anti-war!!!  Most other times I get the finger, recently a guy followed me and vandalized my car!!!  Why? these things never happened when I had a "God said it, I believe it, that settles it!"  Bumper sticker! But dude, I'm not complaining! No! I rejoice!  J

Political/religious bumper stickers of any persuasion are complex belief systems reduced to their crudest form: a one-line jingo-ism. A crude response should not be surprising.

Dave, your anti-war position may be well-reasoned. But no bumper sticker can do it justice simply because it's a bumper sticker. Bumper stickers are simplistic. They elicit simplistic responses. If I slapped a TURN OR BURN sticker to my fender (which I wouldn't---I don't believe in organized bumper stickers Grin), I would fully expect to get the finger or have my car keyed. People respond strongly to labels, especially when the labels deal with sensitive, controversial subjects like war, abortion or God.

By representing your beliefs via bumper sticker, it is you who have demeaned your values---not those who respond to it.

Peace,
E.
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tenderhearted
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2005, 05:21:25 am »

Hi I was just reading through the last 10 posts, can came across this topic.
Last Sunday Service, my pastor and a few other delegates who went on a Pastoral Conference for the Fellowship Baptist International.

Pastor B reported that leaders are coming to the realization, that maybe a time will be coming were we will have to be face with the possibility of making a martyers decision to live out our faith in the Lord Jesus. Because Canada is a leading down the path of a very evil wicked country, with prayers and freedoms of worship is coming in conflict with the policies of the country being made. That reading the Bible and worshipping in public, could become a criminal offence.

Then he proceeded to used 2 Peter 2 for his Sunday Service Message.
As he was reading certain verses of this Chapter, what went through my mind was false teachers which we mutually have been exposed to.

My weekly Monday Night Ladies Bible Study have been Studying Jude, including false teachers, and how sneaky these false teachers can be, by giving only small doses of falseness mixed in with truth, until we believe them.

In light what Canada is experience, and with it multicultualism, trying to please all the groups of people, have water down our countries morals including Christian foundations of beliefs, that most Canadian have come to belief in the truth mixed with lies.

In conclusion, the question that came from the pulpit on Sunday was:
AM I PREPARED TO BE MARTYERED FOR MY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST?

Lenore
 
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