Why I stayed for as long as I did.

[vernecarty]

I don't think I miss that lesson at all.  I think George and Betty's control is indeed the key issue of why the Assembly was unhealthy.  Even when I was in the Assembly, I used to have this thought pop into my head often:  "George is the uprising and the downfall of the Assembly."

I think even if we kept many distinctives things pretty much the same (headcoverings, style of worship, campus ministry, community living, etc., not unhealthy attitudes and intimidating practices) but put it under a man such as Chuck Smith or any other genuine Christian leader, I think God could have used the Assemblies to do much good.  George had some great ideas.  He just couldn't keep his "hands off God's things", if you will.  It always had to be about him (with a little h).

You may be right.
My own thinking is that as goes our assessment of George Geftakys, so goes our assessment of the assemblies.
You really cannot separate them in my view.
If we accept your line of reasoning, it would justify their continuation without him.
I think what happened there was far more serious than just the wrong man at the top.
Verne

[outdeep]

You may be right.
My own thinking is that as goes our assessment of George Geftakys, so goes our assessment of the assemblies.
You really cannot separate them in my view.
If we accept your line of reasoning, it would justify their continuation without him.
I think what happened there was far more serious than just the wrong man at the top.
Verne

Yes, you are right on that point.  I think the Assemblies become George incarnate taking on his personality and paranoia.  If I lived in Fullerton and Placentia I might venture a visit just to see old friends, but I wouldn't consider trying to keep the thing alive. 

My point is more along this lines:  Chuck Smith and George Geftakys started movements about the same time and both movements had some similar characteristics.  Chuck's evolved into a major Christian denomination and has been a great blessing to many over TV, radio, stadium outreaches, Christian music, etc.  George's movement, well . . .

If at the very beginning, Chuck started the Assemblies and George stated Calvary Chapel, the blessings and cursing would be reversed because, as you say, the fruit of these individuals. 

I'm not saying that if a new leader took over the Assemblies now that it would suddenly flourish.  It's too late for that.

[vernecarty]

Yes, you are right on that point.  I think the Assemblies become George incarnate taking on his personality and paranoia.  If I lived in Fullerton and Placentia I might venture a visit just to see old friends, but I wouldn't consider trying to keep the thing alive. 

My point is more along this lines:  Chuck Smith and George Geftakys started movements about the same time and both movements had some similar characteristics.  Chuck's evolved into a major Christian denomination and has been a great blessing to many over TV, radio, stadium outreaches, Christian music, etc.  George's movement, well . . .

If at the very beginning, Chuck started the Assemblies and George stated Calvary Chapel, the blessings and cursing would be reversed because, as you say, the fruit of these individuals. 

I'm not saying that if a new leader took over the Assemblies now that it would suddenly flourish.  It's too late for that.

I hear ya.
Here is my take - your illustration of Chuck vs George highlights the importance of our distinguishing the true from the false when it comes to spiritual matters.
This is the manner in which I think we will all be judged as regards the lesson of the Geftakys era.
Verne

[Recovering Saint]

I stayed in the Assembly because I trusted the leaders were trustworthy and would recognize and stop a wolf when they saw it and were willing to lay down their lives to defend a sheep like me. I guess I missplaced my trust. The onus is on the leaders it says clearly they bear the greater judgement because they should know better and are charged with the souls of those "under their care".

Hugh 

[vernecarty]

I stayed in the Assembly because I trusted the leaders were trustworthy and would recognize and stop a wolf when they saw it and were willing to lay down their lives to defend a sheep like me. I guess I missplaced my trust. The onus is on the leaders it says clearly they bear the greater judgement because they should know better and are charged with the souls of those "under their care".

Hugh 

This is probably true for many, Hugh.
I believe when it comes time to give an account for all those involved, those charged with leadership will bear a fearsome responsibility...
Verne