I want to talk about the curse

[sfortescue]

While talking about offences, it might be good to avoid offending Slavic people.

Stephen, Stephen-- make up your mind.  You previously said:

You won't hear a Slavic person complain about it because in their culture they believe in pessimism.  They distrust anyone who is doing well.  They figure such a person must be a KGB informant (now called FSB) or else involved in organized crime.

...which sounds awfully like a broad generalization even stronger than saying that Indian people tend to be late...

There will be offenses--  Let us all be exercised to not be those by whom they come...

God bless,
al

I remembered only part of what I read in an article in the English version of Moscow News.  From #23, June 14-20,2000 issue, in an article titled, "Success and Failure" is the following:

...

The attitude to success encountered in the above story is fairly typical of the younger generation in the provinces today.  It was the exact opposite before Perestroika started, and the older generation still holds on to the traditional Russian view of success and failure.  America was and still is founded on the idea of success.  Russia is founded on the idea of failure.  Alexei, a friend of mine who moved to the countryside several years ago, went through a cycle which taught him a lot about village life.

When Alexei moved into an empty house in a half deserted village, the locals were overjoyed.  The old couple living there was weary of loneliness.  They helped Alexei in all ways.  They adored him when he (was) loaned money from them.  They treated him to vodka and the produce of their vegetable garden when his German shepherd killed his goats.  They cherished him when he was ill and gave him medicine.  They sympathized with him when local alcoholics ripped him off and refused to carry out their commitments.  They doted on him when he was cheated out of his last money.  Oh, don't we just love underdogs!

Life in Russia is striped.  White comes after black, and black comes after white.  This year Alexei began to recover.  He regularly earned money.  His small farm thrived.  His animals reproduced successfully.  He concluded profitable deals.  At first Alexei failed to detect the change in his neighbors' attitude to him.  He could see something was gnawing at them.  It was the worm of envy and jealousy.  Grandma would be out there getting herself worked up.  At the slightest pretext, and with no pretext at all, she would come charging and screaming and cursing.  It was a scene from an Italian film of the 1950s.  The old couple now had only one purpose in life, to make life intolerable for Alexei.  Kind granny and gentle grandpa turned into wild animals.

Alexei realized he had made a serious mistake in public relations.  And he changed his tactics.  He came to the old couple begging for money.  He saw the old folks melting.  He said a Gypsy had swindled him and saw the thaw turning into full spring.  The successful entrepreneur and incipient psychologist feigned to be sick, and the neighbors gave him medicine.  It was love once again.  Somewhat belatedly Alexei had learned the main secret of success in Russia: to project an image of failure while covertly achieving success.  This extraordinary phenomenon in Russian psychology is closely linked to the failure of private farmers in Russia and the tremendous success of racketeering, which has killed thousands of successful businessmen with impunity.  Russians hate winners and love losers, even if they won't admit it openly.  So next time you come to Russia, tell Russians you're a loser, and you'll be okay.  Only don't try it in America.  Americans won't even talk with losers.

(It seemed better to include more of the article.)

[M2]

Someone on this BB has said that the race issue is a "trigger" for Verne Carty. That is patent nonsense.
If you know anything about the history of African Americans you know  that the West Indian experience is remarkably different from that of American blacks. By any statistical measure, socio-economic or educational, we are indistinguishable from whites as a sub-group.( People from the Caribbean find the notion of some people in this country that our skin color somehow makes us inferior to them frightfully funny! Anyone ever done any research on the prevalence of genetic diseases among the races...hmmmnn?)

This socio-economic and educational parity has been demonstrated in study after study (with a slight correction for inherited wealth). Of course you don't get this kind of information from the national media or by watching the evening news about the latest gang-banging goings-on in the 'hood. The same is true of other expatriots of African descent. In London for example, Africans hold more advanced degrees than any other racial group. Not surprising, Africa is a very big place  
What is the reason for this seeming statistical anamoly, you ask? Very good question.

It is remarkable testimony of what growing up in a society of systematic oppression can do to a group of people. You can argue with me all you want but before you do,  go do your homework.

So you ask me: Verne if you in particular have not practically paid a cost in these matters why get so excercised about it?

In this particular case?
The position that Brent advocated regarding Blacks was a position held and taught by George and Betty Geftakys. So far as those two pariahs of the church of Jesus Christ are concerned, I am nothing if not consistent. Now you know.
Verne
p.s I am just about done with this...I hope I have made my point. I am off to Barcelona to see my women...(two of whom are seven and five)   'Bye  

p.p.s. If you want to talk about a place under true oppression from spiritual darkness you need look no further than the Caribbean island of Haiti. They are coming up on the 200 year aniversary of their remarkable  victory over the French which some ascribe to the aid of the Pince of Darkness. There is going to be serious trouble there and many are going to die. Some people I know were scheduled to go there for ministry and had to cancel the trip. Pray for them. If Brent had said what he said about that island, even without a Biblical reference I would have agreed with him. Does that surprise anyone? Check the history...

I am aware of 'history' lessons.  In Pakistan the Indians were the bad guys; in India the Pakistanis were the bad guys. The perspective presented was dependant on which country's history book you read.  BTW I am a Pakistani immigrant to Canada, and now have Canadian citizenship.  I have been in Canada longer than not.  My parents made the big decision to immigrate, I had nothing to do with it.  So here I am and am happy to be here.  But I do remember waiting for a bus at a shopping center at the young age of 17 or so.  A much older white woman with white hair stood there beside me and exhorted me for immigrating to Canada and taking advantage of the comforts of Canadian society that white pioneers had labored to bring about. I stood there and silently 'took' it from her until one of our buses arrived.
Then there are the history lessons of the British in India.  Half of the Indian population believe that the British influence was damaging to their country.  My mother grew up prejudiced against the British.  The other half believe that the British did a lot of good by helping to bring stability and to unify the country, whereas before there was continuous strife amonst the various kingdoms.

Verne, if I am ignorant of some matter, then I would hope that you would endeavour to 'educate' me, rather than berate me for my lack of knowlege.  Maybe you did not intend it that way, but that is the way I interpreted it.
George and Betty Geftakys have definitely used the Scriptures in an abusive manner.  In my re-evaluation of the Scriptures, I may end up holding a position similar to theirs without the abusive slant.  Do you agree?

Lord bless,
Marcia

[Joe Sperling]

The Indian cable guy never showed up. He said some Slavic guy worked on his truck and botched the job so he had no transportation.

--Joe

[sfortescue]

Anyone ever done any research on the prevalence of genetic diseases among the races...hmmmnn?

From what I've learned from reading about biochemistry, the prevalence of genetic diseases is evidence of near extinction.  An example is what Hitler did to the Jews.  Perhaps sympathy is better than viewing them as if they were inferior.

Another kind of genetic quirk of people from tropical climates is the selective advantage conferred on those with only one of the genes for sickle cell anemia, since it provides resistance to malaria.  Unfortunately, it also means for such people nearly certain death for a quarter of their offspring: those who have both genes.

[Scott McCumber]

Anyone ever done any research on the prevalence of genetic diseases among the races...hmmmnn?

From what I've learned from reading about biochemistry, the prevalence of genetic diseases is evidence of near extinction.  An example is what Hitler did to the Jews.  Perhaps sympathy is better than viewing them as if they were inferior.

Hey, Stephen,

I don't understand the example. In what way is Hitler's treatment analagous?

I'm slow. Be patient.

S

[sfortescue]

Hey, Stephen,

I don't understand the example. In what way is Hitler's treatment analagous?

I'm slow. Be patient.

S

Since Hitler killed 6 million Jews, the result is that the prevalence of genetic diseases among the survivors is higher than it was before, because of diminished genetic diversity.  They continue to suffer the consequences of the holocaust.

[Scott McCumber]

Hey, Stephen,

I don't understand the example. In what way is Hitler's treatment analagous?

I'm slow. Be patient.

S

Since Hitler killed 6 million Jews, the result is that the prevalence of genetic diseases among the survivors is higher than it was before, because of diminished genetic diversity.  They continue to suffer the consequences of the holocaust.

. . . the prevalence of genetic diseases among the survivors is higher than it was before, because of diminished genetic diversity.

That's the info I was missing. Thank you.

S

[editor]

Greetings from Barcelona:
(Actually the beautiful seaside village of Sant Pol de Mar)
Having re-read my posts on this thread, and most importantly having discussed by responses with my dear and always rightspouse, I think a public apology to Brent is in order.
There were a number of posts in which my choice of words to describe Brent's position were neither gracious nor necessarily accurate. Brent for that I apologise and will edit those posts. It is possible to disagree without being disagreeable.
Verne
 

Appolgy accepted, and no offense taken.  Please don't edit your posts.  It's good to own one's words, don't you think?

Brent

[delila]

More about Genesis:

About that tower of Babel.  I wonder if when all speak the same language, if this is perhaps a terrible thing.  In the assembly we all spoke the same language, assembly language.  It was not, however, the language of the redeemed.  It was a limited language, a careful and crafty language and with it, a great edifice was built, bypassing God completely.  God seems to love diversity.  When I look at the cultures of the world, I'm glad about that diversity.  When I look at the diversity on this board too, the various opinions and the freedom that we have to express them without fear of punishment, I'm pleased too.  The tower, though some seek to rebuild it, is crumbling.  Of that, I'm certain.

delila

[lenore]

More about Genesis:

About that tower of Babel.  I wonder if when all speak the same language, if this is perhaps a terrible thing.  In the assembly we all spoke the same language, assembly language.  It was not, however, the language of the redeemed.  It was a limited language, a careful and crafty language and with it, a great edifice was built, bypassing God completely.  God seems to love diversity.  When I look at the cultures of the world, I'm glad about that diversity.  When I look at the diversity on this board too, the various opinions and the freedom that we have to express them without fear of punishment, I'm pleased too.  The tower, though some seek to rebuild it, is crumbling.  Of that, I'm certain.

delila

AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN.
preach it sister preach it.
It is the difference that makes up the body, not robotic people that do the same thing.
After all how many one part bodies do you see.

DELILA: Good , excellent ,
Thank you.