Tim Geftakys and the Fruit of the Spirit

[Eulaha L. Long]

Bluejay, I appeciate your boldness!  Keep it up, you crack me up!!!  

[4Him]

…
IMHO, what we are seeing from Bluejay is sarcasm, vindictiveness and no Scriptural support
…

I don’t like that vindictiveness stuff, but sarcasm can sometimes be used to help even a thick headed person like me understand things for which I was lacking perspective.

retread,
My point is that sarcasm is something that is totally absent from Christ in the Bible.  In fact I don't know of any godly use of sarcasm there.  We can read examples of ungodly men using it however.  I'm not saying that it can never be used appropriately, but that its use should be with great carefulness.
I believe that Bluejay's manner, which BTW, is devoid of Scripture backing or reference, really appeals to the incitement of mob "action" and not to the building up and healing needed in the lives of believers.

[Mark C.]

Good Friends!
  I looked up the word "sarcasm" in the dictionary and it is associated with speech and it is difficult to convey in writing because it has to do with the tone and inflection of the voice.  It does contain a mocking tone that often uses irony.  As I read the words of Jesus in Mt. 23 I discover that he is certainly mocking the Pharisees: and "Ye blind fools", serves as a good example.
  It seems to be a characteristic of the BB at times that the victims of abuse are exhorted re. the tone of their anger instead of placing the focus on the abuser.  Verses reminding us to "love our enemies" are used to bring the angry reactor back to "a proper attitude,"  as if this is the need of the hour.
  Jesus did not say to the offended little one's, after harshly warning the offenders, to be careful not to get angry with those abusing you.  We must be careful that we don't make the Assembly argument for them by turning the tables on those who have suffered greatly at the hands of those leading the Assembly.  Remember, these are Christians who treated us this way, and they still have not been very forthcoming in their recognition of their offenses against their brethren.
  I guess, if you don't agree that the Assembly was a very bad place, then you don't think that severity of speech is necessary.  Jesus said of the church at Laodicea that the Christians there made Him vomit!  Why?  For being in a condition of unrepentant, hypocritical, self righteousness.
I would contend that such speech is appropriate to the present Assembly condition and as such should be the focus of our present ire, vs. those who for years were pounded by these abusers.
  Anger is part of the process of recovery and it is better to express it here, where there are those who understand and can offer consolation, then to be forced to internalize it.  Especially, when the exhorted is made to feel that "they have sinned" for sharing their outrage.
   I'm with Jesus; some present Assembly folks make me vomit!
                          God Bless,  Mark
     

[Bluejay]

Oh come on now Tim...Not all of my posts have been sarcastic.  Some have even been well thought out.  

Normally, I would confront whoever I had issues with face to face.  The problem is that these people are going to tell me what I want to hear then slowly but surely go back to their hyprocritcal ways.  Therefore, why would I waste the time.

Got to get back to the Texas Tech - Texas game.

[Mark C.]

Thank you Verne!
   You have raised a very important fact, and that is to not ignore the truth that God is the mover and shaker in all these events.  It is truly God's great mercy to continually knock at the door of the Assembly and invite them to a full repentance.(especially after all that GG did to God's sheep)
   Certainly, recent events should have gotten our attention, but what is God saying in them?  GG is a bad man, but his teaching is holy and good?  GG is a bad man, but only some of his teaching is holy and good?
   I vote for GG is a bad man and each and everything GG taught and practiced should be critically examined.  In order for this examination to be valid Assembly members must seek help from those not raised up in the same system they came from.
   When God judged the Pharisees he said "the axe was layed to the root."  Is it hyper-critical to ask that at least present Assembly members think that quite possibly God is trying to reach them through the present events and that humble reception of those seeking to help them is a worthy pursuit?
              God wants to bless,  Mark  

[4Him]

Oh come on now Tim...Not all of my posts have been sarcastic.  Some have even been well thought out.  
Normally, I would confront whoever I had issues with face to face.  The problem is that these people are going to tell me what I want to hear then slowly but surely go back to their hyprocritcal ways.  Therefore, why would I waste the time.
Got to get back to the Texas Tech - Texas game.

OK Blue,
1. I'll admit it, not all of your posts are sarcastic.  Of the now 27 posts I did find 2, maybe 3 or 4, w/no sarcasm.  After delving into them more deeply, I did find much to agree with and much to chuckle at.  I especially liked your post on Feb. 25 @ 3:37pm (CST) under "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest".  
2. You're probably right about confronting face-to-face" in this instance. But I think you're using wrong tactics in the manner of your attack.  Those who might be inclined to be rescued from continuing in the delusion, are more likely to be influenced from a scripturally based attack or one that is at least more specific.
3. Texas-Texas Tech?!? In basketball?! Why don't you go for a real game, like Illinois (beat MU today to tie for Big 10 1st. GO Illini!)  

[Bluejay]

Tim Souther:

O.K. so maybe I tend to be a little sarcastic from time to time.  

As for my approach, I have tip toed around this subject matter for ten years now.  The leaders of the "assembly's" game plan of not allowing people to question anything or call leading brothers out has now completely backfired.  People like myself are now holding absolutely nothing back.  Had many of these issues been resolved correctly, ie. if there had been some sort of system of checks and balances, many issues could have been resolved in a more timely manner.  There is a lot of built up anger that could have easily been avoided.    

After all thats been said and done, if there are people that continue to follow these men, you have to worry about the stability in their own lives.  

This is really a weak post on my behalf, but I'm in a hurry... More to come tomorrow!!!

[vbeers]

I think we all need to keep in mind that the 'assembly' has turned many people completely away from the Lord.  Hopefully the deterioration of the 'assembly' will help some of those people rebuild their relationship with Christ.  Bluejay, as mentioned in an earlier post, is my brother-  my husband and I pray every day that the Lord will regain a hold in his life and the lives of our other family members.  Both of my brothers were ruined spiritually b/c of their involvement with the 'assembly'.  We were all told that we weren't good enough and were made to feel as though we didn't measure up.  Since the 'saints' were the only standard for Christianity that we knew, we began to despise anything and everything to do with religion and the church.  

At times I feel outrage that the likes of people like Tim G. or numerous others could have had such a terrible impact on so many, namely my brother.  But, I will continue to pray for him b/c I have absolute faith that he will once again know the Lord's love and faithfulness in his life.

In the meantime, let's just keep in mind that Bluejay and others may not be posting with any regard to spiritual things.   I didn't realize that doing so was a prerequisite for this board!  

[Kimberley Tobin]

Vbeers:

Yours is a point well taken.  In addition, though some have not lost their faith (and thus perhaps held to a higher standard in light of their professing faith in Christ), there has been GREAT damage done to their walk with Christ.  Just as you don't beat a baby christian over the head with bible verses, expecting them to "get in line", most of those who have come out of the assembly are just like those baby christians.  We know a lot of bible verses.  But head knowledge does not equate into practical application.  It is through the loving involvement of people who reach out to these hurting brothers and sisters that will win them and Christ will be the one to change their outward behavior.  It is an age old assembly technique to attempt to change peoples behavior through condemnation and "scripture beating".  We all know what fruit this produces.  

Try reaching out through posts or even better yet, pm someone you identify with and begin a private dialogue that God can use to change our brothers and sisters.  Not by condemning them, but by reaching out and ministering the love of Christ.  This is what changes men and women, not judgemental pointing the finger, etc.

my two cents for what it's worth!

[vbeers]

all good, however, it's not my goal to change anyone.  i only pray for them and hopefully, through prayer the Lord will change them.  in the meantime, to each his own in this process of healing...

[Bluejay]

Well said Ed!!!  Things have come full circle...Issues were never dealt with, thus their is a lot of built up anger and even hatred.  The leaders have no one to blame but themselves.   No one should feel sorry for any of the Geftakys men about the heat they are getting.