Lenore why this is my last post. I have tried to have objective meaningful discisions on this B.B. Yet what happens is the topic I begin with gets pushed aside and my personal beliefs are attacked. Remeber I just asked people to watch Fahrenhiet 9/11 and I get condesended to in a very disrespectful manner. (Just look at what Tom said about my religion in the previous post!) I expect that Christians hold to a higher standard then that of name calling or an attacks on my character. Because I am not a Christian I have no moral basis!? This must also apply to people like Ghandi? What happens is my emotions get involved and I start doing the same. This I know will only end up in me being delited. So I will leave it at that. Oh by the way a person of whom will remain nameless told me that they did see the movie and that they are voting for Kerry.
David,
The argument is not that atheists do not have morals - of course all people have a moral system. What is in question is the basis of that morality. If one believes in intelligent design, one believes in a Person who transcends the creation. This Person has a right to set the rules. As a result, dictates such as "you shall not commit premeditative murder" and "you shall not sleep with someone who is not your wife" are seen as absolute truths that transcend time and culture.
If one does not believe in God, then the matter about us is all that there is. There is nothing that rises above the pack to set the moral rules. Therefore, moral rules are set by 1) pragmatism (e.g., "I don't kill others because I don't want them to kill me, but I might kill the vulnerable of society if I see it solving other problems such as population growth") 2) likes and dislikes (e. g., "I don't like Hitler, Saddam, and Bush, therefore they are evil.") 3) Moral truths that one picks up from the Judeo-Christian ethic that has permeated our society even though the religions themselves are rejected. (e.g., "I believe that lying is wrong because I grew up believing that.")
This may feel to you as an attack, but it is a standard apologetic argument. You will find it in Ravi Zacharias'
Can Man Live Without God? and Dennis Prager's
Ten questions about Judaism as well as just about any other apologetic work you might read.
The question is, is it true? Or what is the basis upon which an atheist’s morals rest? What makes a man good and what makes a man bad and does it really matter? And why does it matter?
-Dave
