Bluejay
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« on: May 08, 2003, 12:01:39 am » |
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I took a break from posting for the past few weeks. The assembly had taken way to much of my time growing up, and I just decided that I was not going to allow it to take any more of my time. However, I am 100% moritified that people are still tip toeing around the Geftakys!
First...George, Tim and David Geftakys and others led a ministry where members of the assembly were to be held accountable for the most minute and simplest of things. After all that has been found out, why are we not holding them to that same accountability. And no, a stupid letter of excommunication doesn't cut it. Why aren't we going out of our way to confront them and get to the bottom of all of the serious issues that plagued their fraudulent and self serving ministries...The accouting, the suicides, the wrecking of families. Particularly with the accounting, the way money was handled appears to be completely criminal! Why havent people taken a united stand to make them completely come clean? It is mind bogggling! How these men are not behind bars yet is absolutely amazing.
These men made a good living off of playing church for many years. They held people to ridiculously high standards that they were know where close to.
These men broke numerous ethical laws, as well as the laws of the land. We have a responsibility to make sure that they are held accountable to the highest level.
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Arthur
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« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2003, 12:41:43 am » |
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What can be done? Go over to his house and say I want my money back? If you have some sort of viable plan, let me know.
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Bluejay
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« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2003, 01:51:55 am » |
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Does anyone know if they have been reported to the authorities???
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Matt
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« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2003, 02:38:12 am » |
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Does anyone know if they have been reported to the authorities???
Reported to the authorities for WHAT? You willingly gave any money to them and were aware that you couldn't get a full recounting of how it was spent. What are you going to tell the judge? That you didn't know any better? |
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Bluejay
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« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2003, 02:52:55 am » |
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I want to clarify...I don't want any money back...Im sure I donated when I was younger, but the amount was probably miniscule to what I make now.
My point is this...They held us to a ridiculously high standard of living, and hurt many people. Above and beyond this, they fraudulently managed the money.
I think authorities would be very interested to find out how these millions of dollars were handled over the years.
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Matt
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« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2003, 04:28:46 am » |
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I want to clarify...I don't want any money back...Im sure I donated when I was younger, but the amount was probably miniscule to what I make now.
My point is this...They held us to a ridiculously high standard of living, and hurt many people. Above and beyond this, they fraudulently managed the money.
I think authorities would be very interested to find out how these millions of dollars were handled over the years.
Bluejay, I understand where you are coming from. But holding people to a "high standard of living" is not a crime. I know that it might be aggravating, but how can it matter how he spent the money, if the people gave it to him freely? Did GG say exactly how the money was to be spent? If he didn't say when he was asked (as is apparently the case), and people kept giving freely, then it's not really a crime, sad as it is. |
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Kimberley Tobin
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« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2003, 10:31:27 am » |
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I believe the irritation at the amount of money contributed to "the Lord's treasury" is the fact that it lined the Geftakys' pockets and was not used for "the Lord's work both here and abroad."
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MGov
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« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2003, 11:16:25 am » |
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Their behavior towards the Lord's people is appalling (sp??). But we allowed them to treat us thus and I can't see it being possible to take any legal action at this point. However, I do know that the Lord said 'enough is enough' and has exposed the sin and will continue to do so (but, maybe not in our timing).
With regard to the money issue, if they took from the Lord's treasury unnecessarily, then it is shameful, but we cannot take legal action now after voluntarily giving and not requesting accountability then.
I understand the GG's home was purchased with his inheritance money(from his Dad) before the assemblies began. The earliest renovations to their house was also done with BG's retirement money that she cashed in.
M
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Aslan213
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« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2003, 12:51:57 pm » |
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Hi Everyone,
Without going into the tax code, there are some requirements which I'm sure the Geftakys' did not abide by. From my understanding, GG's income consisted of "gifts". But even gifts are taxable if the threshold is exceeded by any one person in a given year. For example, a brother gives $20,000 to George for the journey. For many years, $10,000 of that is taxable under the gift tax. If someone gave this much and went to the authorities with this, George would have a few problems. Also, George refiling a return over 3 years old will almost certainly trigger an audit. Another thing to consider in light of the cash contributions is how George would have to prove the source of the income and from whom. The proving is on him.
There is one more way, but the bulletin board is not the place to post this. I am considering how to implement it more effectively.
Lord Bless,
Eric
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Oscar
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« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2003, 08:12:14 pm » |
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I once talked to a sister who used to prepare income tax forms for George and Betty. According to her they claimed income from "gifts". If that is the case, there wouldn't seem to be anything to report that the IRS wouldn't already know.
Thomas M.
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Bluejay
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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2003, 02:31:01 am » |
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Their behavior towards the Lord's people is appalling (sp??). But we allowed them to treat us thus and I can't see it being possible to take any legal action at this point. However, I do know that the Lord said 'enough is enough' and has exposed the sin and will continue to do so (but, maybe not in our timing).
With regard to the money issue, if they took from the Lord's treasury unnecessarily, then it is shameful, but we cannot take legal action now after voluntarily giving and not requesting accountability then.
I understand the GG's home was purchased with his inheritance money(from his Dad) before the assemblies began. The earliest renovations to their house was also done with BG's retirement money that she cashed in.
You know what....This is stupid. If people want to follow these idiotic and uneducated (George, Tim, other "leading brothers") people around - let them. People who stay in the Geftakys ministry are probably better off there anyway because they no doubt lack self esteem or have any useful qualities that would be any use to society anyway. At least this gives them some sort of structured environment.
My hope was that people would demand accountability and admission from George and Tim. A letter of excommunication from a system that no longer exists is stupid. Assemblyites unknowingly provided them with a playboy like lifestyle for all of these years. People looked up to these guys as not only leading brothers but as friends. George and Tim - you screwed your friends over.
Please note that I have tried to contact both of these guys to confront them on the different issues I have with them and give them a piece of my mind, but they wont answer my calls.
M
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Matt
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« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2003, 03:26:26 am » |
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You know what....This is stupid. If people want to follow these idiotic and uneducated (George, Tim, other "leading brothers") people around - let them. People who stay in the Geftakys ministry are probably better off there anyway because they no doubt lack self esteem or have any useful qualities that would be any use to society anyway. At least this gives them some sort of structured environment.
My hope was that people would demand accountability and admission from George and Tim. A letter of excommunication from a system that no longer exists is stupid. Assemblyites unknowingly provided them with a playboy like lifestyle for all of these years. People looked up to these guys as not only leading brothers but as friends. George and Tim - you screwed your friends over.
Please note that I have tried to contact both of these guys to confront them on the different issues I have with them and give them a piece of my mind, but they wont answer my calls.
Bluejay, Firstly, you put your own thoughts into MGov's quote so it looked like she said that stuff. Now, what are you talking about "leading brothers" being "idiotic and uneducated." Another blanket statement made out of emotion. All it takes is for ONE leading brother not to be bad and then you CAN'T say they ALL were. I think it's terrible that people are assigning so much blame to the leading brothers. How quickly we have forgotten all the ways they've served us over the years. Whether you like it or not, a lot of leading brothers worked tirelessly for YOU. They let you live with them very cheaply, they prayed with you, they mentored you. Now people are shamelessly pointing fingers at the LB's and going on about how badly they were treated. Serving you dinners in their homes, going through the Bible with you, preparing Bible studies for you, always there to talk to you on the phone - that is not mistreatement by any means. If you must blame someone, blame George (or how about this for a novel idea - yourself!). But don't hurt the people that loved you. No, sir - that's not right! The Lord knows the truth. Lord bless. - Matt |
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Bluejay
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« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2003, 04:07:57 am » |
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You know what....This is stupid. If people want to follow these idiotic and uneducated (George, Tim, other "leading brothers") people around - let them. People who stay in the Geftakys ministry are probably better off there anyway because they no doubt lack self esteem or have any useful qualities that would be any use to society anyway. At least this gives them some sort of structured environment.
My hope was that people would demand accountability and admission from George and Tim. A letter of excommunication from a system that no longer exists is stupid. Assemblyites unknowingly provided them with a playboy like lifestyle for all of these years. People looked up to these guys as not only leading brothers but as friends. George and Tim - you screwed your friends over.
Please note that I have tried to contact both of these guys to confront them on the different issues I have with them and give them a piece of my mind, but they wont answer my calls.
Bluejay, Firstly, you put your own thoughts into MGov's quote so it looked like she said that stuff. Now, what are you talking about "leading brothers" being "idiotic and uneducated." Another blanket statement made out of emotion. All it takes is for ONE leading brother not to be bad and then you CAN'T say they ALL were. I think it's terrible that people are assigning so much blame to the leading brothers. How quickly we have forgotten all the ways they've served us over the years. Whether you like it or not, a lot of leading brothers worked tirelessly for YOU. They let you live with them very cheaply, they prayed with you, they mentored you. Now people are shamelessly pointing fingers at the LB's and going on about how badly they were treated. Serving you dinners in their homes, going through the Bible with you, preparing Bible studies for you, always there to talk to you on the phone - that is not mistreatement by any means. If you must blame someone, blame George (or how about this for a novel idea - yourself!). But don't hurt the people that loved you. No, sir - that's not right! The Lord knows the truth. Lord bless. - Matt First off - sorry to MGov about mixing up the two quotes...I didn't mean to do that and wasnt aware until Matt mentioned it. If someone can show me how to modify it, I will. Secondly - Im not making an emotional statement... Im just saying that as a result of Tim and Georges lack of education, the assembly is the only place where they more than likely could have any sort of control. Also, I didn't say all leading brothers....I said "other" leading brothers. By this I mean the leading brothers who knew of the crookedness of the assembly and for whatever reason did nothing. You are absolutely right...There were some leading brothers with good intentions who did indeed work hard. Regarding your other comments... As far as blaming myself....Why on God's green earth would I do that??? Was it my fault that my parents chose the assembly as a place of worship when I was two years old??? Sir - So much for that "novel" idea. I have said all along that I hold Tim and George accountable for this mess. I don't hold David accountable because from what I've gathered he is a mentally ill human being who is a disgrace to mankind. George and Tim should be held accountable for not bringing the issues regarding him to light. George, Betty (who is shockingly still alive after being so "stricken" with cancer) and Tim are nothing but con artists. |
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Matt
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« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2003, 04:17:05 am » |
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First off - sorry to MGov about mixing up the two quotes...I didn't mean to do that and wasnt aware until Matt mentioned it. If someone can show me how to modify it, I will.
Secondly - Im not making an emotional statement... Im just saying that as a result of Tim and Georges lack of education, the assembly is the only place where they more than likely could have any sort of control. Also, I didn't say all leading brothers....I said "other" leading brothers. By this I mean the leading brothers who knew of the crookedness of the assembly and for whatever reason did nothing. You are absolutely right...There were some leading brothers with good intentions who did indeed work hard.
Regarding your other comments...
As far as blaming myself....Why on God's green earth would I do that??? Was it my fault that my parents chose the assembly as a place of worship when I was two years old??? Sir - So much for that "novel" idea.
I have said all along that I hold Tim and George accountable for this mess. I don't hold David accountable because from what I've gathered he is a mentally ill human being who is a disgrace to mankind. George and Tim should be held accountable for not bringing the issues regarding him to light. George, Betty (who is shockingly still alive after being so "stricken" with cancer) and Tim are nothing but con artists.
How do you know that Tim Geftakys knew anything about the immorality? People here in Cali who, logically speaking, would see him far more often than you, have said that he did not know the extent of his father's immorality. In any case, why do you think it is fair to pin George's sin on his son? I book tabled with him in the 2001-2002 school year, and let me tell you that he was very dedicated to serving the Lord. I do not think it is fair to place GG and Tim G in the same category. Although, I must agree that he did have bad breath and I was offended when he said that I was "tempted by Satan" to celebrate Christmas. (still debating on the Christmas issue - maybe he is right) Anyway, if you were harmed in the assembly as a child, then you are right, don't blame yourself. Blame your parents. |
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Bluejay
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« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2003, 04:27:12 am » |
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First off - sorry to MGov about mixing up the two quotes...I didn't mean to do that and wasnt aware until Matt mentioned it. If someone can show me how to modify it, I will.
Secondly - Im not making an emotional statement... Im just saying that as a result of Tim and Georges lack of education, the assembly is the only place where they more than likely could have any sort of control. Also, I didn't say all leading brothers....I said "other" leading brothers. By this I mean the leading brothers who knew of the crookedness of the assembly and for whatever reason did nothing. You are absolutely right...There were some leading brothers with good intentions who did indeed work hard.
Regarding your other comments...
As far as blaming myself....Why on God's green earth would I do that??? Was it my fault that my parents chose the assembly as a place of worship when I was two years old??? Sir - So much for that "novel" idea.
I have said all along that I hold Tim and George accountable for this mess. I don't hold David accountable because from what I've gathered he is a mentally ill human being who is a disgrace to mankind. George and Tim should be held accountable for not bringing the issues regarding him to light. George, Betty (who is shockingly still alive after being so "stricken" with cancer) and Tim are nothing but con artists.
How do you know that Tim Geftakys knew anything about the immorality? People here in Cali who, logically speaking, would see him far more often than you, have said that he did not know the extent of his father's immorality. Thank God that I don't have to look at that poor excuse for a human being. In any case, why do you think it is fair to pin George's sin on his son? I book tabled with him in the 2001-2002 school year, and let me tell you that he was very dedicated to serving the Lord. Wow...Tim Geftakys at a book table...I didn't realize he could read. I do not think it is fair to place GG and Tim G in the same category. Your right....I place Tim G in a far worse category than his dad. Although, I must agree that he did have bad breath At least we agree on something! and I was offended when he said that I was "tempted by Satan" to celebrate Christmas. (still debating on the Christmas issue - maybe he is right) Anyway, if you were harmed in the assembly as a child, then you are right, don't blame yourself. Blame your parents. As much as I appreciate your input, I'll blame whoever I want to blame. |
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