I don't know about what GG did.  I only know what I experienced, what was passed down in an abusive system to me.  I only know that this was wrong and that I stand against it.  I know that Rachel's story is true because I experienced the spiritual equivalent where I lived, as did others, in three Canadian assemblies.  That's the truth.  We all want the truth.  Walk away and you say you have no idea that there was abuse and that is a lie and you know it Brent.

ARe you getting sued or something?
delila

and another thing:

You (Brent) seem to indicate the dissolution, like the building of that abusive GG dynasty to which we belonged, must be top-down operation.  Does it?  I don't think so.  And that Matt fellow on the other bb who claims that somehow there weren't victums has no idea.  None.  What oils and tender care many of the x assembly members have taken to tend to the wounds of those beaten and robbed, no clue of the damage that was done to Kimberly's children.  And I wonder what healing Matt's words do.  I'm involved in healing, listening, caring for those working on their own recovery - a recovery from the abuses of this gg system.  And for this, I am not afraid to stand.  Believe me, or not.
drj

So you aren't our champion.  Christ is.  So shut up about George and his alleged 'lovers'.  I for one think there's a lot more interesting and a lot more important things to talk about, a lot more healing things too.  You don't have to take an oath of silence b/c you're so hurt by those you tried to help.  Thank God Christ didn't.  
delila

Good question.  And one I'll try to answer.

People wonder how groups survive, and keep on ticking, despite being exposed for who and what they are.  The Assembly is one of these groups.  We all know how messed up it was, and we all have an idea of how evil the leader was.

However, it is going to continue, and actually grow, because those who can do something, indeed the ONLY ones that can do something, won't.

Rachel did something, and it was effective.  She had facts, and shared them at great personal expense.  She did it when everyone told her not to, because she knew it was the right thing to do.  David's ministry is over, and will never return, unless George is welcomed back and he makes it so.

Now, people who are still involved (and some that aren't)  are asking the very valid question,  "what proof is there that George did any of this?"

Can you give them any proof?  

"Brent said so," is not proof.

"We heard that the women told the fullerton LB's" isn't proof either.

Here is an example:

Judge:  so, you claim that George is an adulterer?
"bob": Yes

J: what proof do you have?
b:I heard from this guy Brent that it happened.
j: did he tell you who was involved?
b:no

j: do you have any firsthand knowledge that Mr. Geftakys ever did anything wrong?
b: no, but hundreds of his ex-followers believe that he did.

J: Mr. Geftakys, do have anything to say in your defense?
George: yes your honor.  Some of my former followers plotted to remove me, in order that they might bask in what they perceived as the power and prestige that I have.  Chief among these is my son.

J:  do you have any proof of this?
G: yes, your honory.  These false charges about sexual impropriety were brought against me.  My accusers wouldn't even give the names of my imaginary victims.  As you have seen, they aren't able to produce any proof that it ever took place.

Furthermore,  My son is leading what he was able to salvage from my old church.  Clearly this was their design, and this is what they have accomplished.  They have no proof against me, and they have seized control and have gained their objective, based on falsehood and slander.

Judge:  Mr. "bob," can you counter this?
B: uh...what he is saying isn't true.  He's denying everything.  This is a pattern with him.  He was excommunicated by his own followers!
Judge:  On what grounds did they "excommunicate" him?
B: They spoke to some women who were involved.
J: did you speak to them?
B: well, yes, sort of.  I know that they were telling the truth.
J: Are they going to testify?
B: No, they are unwilling at this time.

Judge:  in light of the fact that there is no proof to substantiate the claims made by "bob,"  I find the defendant not guilty.

This parody is exactly what people are using to justify their continuance with the ministry, and their rebuilding of George's ministry.

WE all know George did it.  I am absolutely convinced, and even more so.

However, we can't prove it, because the people who were involved won't say anything.  The leadership can't be trusted, because they excommunicated people falsely in the past.  who's to say that they aren't doing the same thing with George?

A man is innocent until proven guilty, therefore, George is innocent, because there is no proof he is guilty.  He is innocent and will remain so until one of the women comes forward.

Brent

So...there are women who have tangible proof of George's sexual immorality, yet they won't talk.  And Brent thinks that they have an irrevocable obligation before the court of Heaven to tell their story.  Since they won't, he has made the drastic posts which we have recently read.  I hate to have to disagree with you, Brent, but that is like lying down on a railroad track, and saying, "I'm going to let this train run over me because Person X over there won't do what I think they should."

Regardless of whether these women come forward or not, there is still plenty of evidence out there to crucify the Assembly system.  There is also the witness of our own experiences with leaders who proved to be worth less than a used drink of water.  Think of the men we allowed to boss us, demean us, hit us in the face.  I'm certainly not done sticking my neck out, and I still intend to warn people to stay away from the Assembly.  If they listen, well and good.  If not, then as Gandalf said, "The burned hand teaches best..."

Clarence Thompson

One other thing: I am an engineer by profession, and a male by creation.  But I say, let's show these women a little tenderness.  Perhaps for them to come forward would open extremely deep wounds in them.  Why should they have to pay for something that was really forced on them by George?

Clarence Thompson

Yes, I know this as well.

However, this evidence isn't available to people who ask the question,  "What women?"  "Did Brent make this all up?"

I am in trouble if pressed.  I can't count on these people to back me up, although they counted on me to tell the truth at one time.  

Silence is the wide open opportunity for George and his followers to say,  "none of it is true.  It can't be proven.  Where are the witnesses?"

This whole thing is not about what is true.  Most of us need no convincing with regard to the truth.  This is all about what can be proven.

George is innocent until proven guilty.  If there are secret documents in the possession of Keith Walker, this proves nothing, as they are secret.

The golden tabletures and magic spectacles reside behind a curtain in some Mormon temple.  No one can see them, so do we have any proof that they really exist?

Don't you see the dilemna?  The truth has no power when we are unwilling to speak it.  

What a shame.

Brent