Grace - the missing ingredient

vernecarty

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« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2003, 05:03:23 am »

Quote from: Jack Hutchinson on April 11, 2003, 04:33:02 am

I'd like to make a correction to my previous post.

In that context the slave would represent the unbeliever (a slave to those which by nature are no gods),
Jack

A reasonable supposition; I think the key thought is that the immature son is no different, than a slave...
This sheds great light on the reason so many of God's people allow themsleves to be led into bondage of one sort or another...
How illuminating that despite our smug claim of "special vision", so many of us allowed ourselves to be shackled to such an onerous system as that promulgated by Geftakys-undeniable testimony to our immaturity!
The wonderful thing is that the process had had the salutary effect of causing many of us to "grow up". It is quite instructive that this process had a lot to do with our simply examining the Word of God and applying the standard to everything we knew about George and what he taught. I think you are on to something Jack...

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
1 Peter 2:2

p.s. It is hard for many of us to admit we were nothing but babes...It would be interesting to see how many would now respond to anyone spouting the stuff Geftakys did unchallenged for decades...
Verne


« Last Edit: April 12, 2003, 07:55:23 am by vernecarty »	Logged

al Hartman

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Re:Grace - the missing ingredient

« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2003, 05:43:44 am »

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Ephesians 4:13
Verne

Beloved,

Don't just trust in appearances. Despite what you read above, Verne is not the author of Ephesians-- it's just a verse he quoted in his last post on this thread, and i want to give credit where it's due (all others pay cash).
.............................................................................
OK, i'm over the jocularity now. i want to point out a couple of things:
Notice that Ephesians 4:13 says that we will ALL (NOT "each") come in the UNITY of the faith, not AS perfect MEN, but UNTO A PERFECT MAN. And it says this WILL happen.
This is about something already bought and paid for. Something that involves everyone who has believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Together. There is no question about whether some will and some may not. Our placecard is already on the table.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."I Peter 1:3-5
This is the passage with which Arthur closed his last post, below. Again, it speaks of and to US about our inheritance. Notice the description of our inheritance: it is
INCORRUPTIBLE,
UNDEFILED, and it
DOESN'T FADE AWAY.
Does that sound in any remote way as if it could depend upon the works of fallible people? How did we ever buy into the idea that we had to secure our inheritance through personal effort? It isn't the reward for a job well done. It is our birthright: We were BORN AGAIN unto it.
i know i'm only reiterating what my brothers have posted before me, but can it be said too often in too many ways? Well, that's how we heard the lies: day after day, week after week, for years and years. And now that man-made veil has been ripped open, and thank the Lord we can shout the truth aloud: Our inheritance is reserved in heaven for us, and we are kept by the power of God! He who purchased our inheritance with his blood IS our inheritance-- who shall separate us from his love?
Oh, how marvelous, Oh how wonderful,
And my praise shall ever be,
How marvelous, How wonderful,
Is my Savior's love for me!

Gratefully,
al


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Joe Sperling

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Re:Grace - the missing ingredient

« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2003, 05:34:14 am »

I read Arthur's post below with several passages from the
book of Hebrews and it brought back memories. I remember when I was in the Assembly I literally would not open to the book of Hebrews unless almost forced to do so because of my great fear of certain verses there. I bought about 7 commentaries on the book and read them instead. I looked for any way out from the destiny I felt was waiting for me. I was certain that I was one of the people in Heb. 6:4-6.

After I left the Assembly this continued for many years. I had so much fear. But then I began reading the book of Hebrews and today think it is one of the most beautiful of all of the books in the Bible. Chapter 12 always fills me with the greatest joy when I read it.

As many have said in this thread--it's amazing when we realize that everything is "finished"---we cannot add to what Jesus Christ has done in any way. To believe that any part of our salvation is dependent on us is just not scriptural. We won't "become" sons, we "already" are sons and we cry "Abba, Father" in our hearts.


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vernecarty

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Re:Grace - the missing ingredient

« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2003, 08:05:00 am »

Quote from: Kimberley Tobin on April 02, 2003, 09:34:16 pm

" My very best friend (the person who preached the gospel to me in the first place and who brought me into the assembly, a friend of almost 20 years) will still not speak with me. THIS IS A LACK OF GRACE!

In view of what we now know about George Geftakys and his posse, this comment from Kimberley is almost incomprehensible. I say almost because the much talking about restoration that has been going on notwithstanding, we have to reconcile ourselves to the fact that not everyone a part of that system was indeed a victim. As you will recall, George was invited to preach after he was excommunicated. I wonder if we understand that there is a time to shake the dust off our feet. Kimberley I cannot tell you how sad it is to read something like this...some of these folk are certainly cursed with a curse...
Verne


« Last Edit: April 12, 2003, 08:07:26 am by vernecarty »	Logged

Mark C.

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Re:Grace - the missing ingredient

« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2003, 10:03:51 am »

Hi All!

I'm back from my weary travels for the week and really enjoyed reading this thread. I wish I could respond to all the thoughts raised here, as understanding what we have in the Gospel is the key to healing and strength for our souls.
The truth of the Grace of God is worth an investment of study in order to gain all the clarity we can get in our thinking. This is why I, and others here, make a big deal about making sure we don't get off the track.
It is not an error of pride to be confident re. a clear understanding of this teaching. Noble Bereans searched the scriptures to see if Paul's teaching was true, which means it is possible to verify. Jack, Verne, Joe, and others have given great examples and testimony to the above discovery of the riches of grace.
Jack: the book by Chafer is the same as you mention in your post. He wrote it long before 1965 and so it must be a reprint. Another good book (from a Reformed position) was one that Steve Irons gave me called, "A theology of the Holy Spirit", by Frederick Dale Bruner, Published by Eerdmans.
Re. understanding the parables in the Gospels: The book oft recommended here, "How to Read The Bible For All It's Worth" will give some help with this. The key re. parables is to understand that the parable was designed to make just one main point. To try and decide what the hidden meaning behind all the details can make for some erroneous and humorous conclusions. For example, Jesus uses the "Mustard Tree" example in one parable as something bad, and in another as something good. Some have tried to give a universal interpretation of the meaning of the metaphor "The Mustard Tree" as a reference to worldly and demon possessed churches! Yet, Jesus wishes we had the faith of a Mustard Tree in one passage and in another the tree is a metaphor for a dwelling place for fowls of the air?!
I had the same problem as others with the book of Hebrews. GG really had the definitions turned around which caused us to view it incorrectly. Let's face it, the book was written to "Hebrews" who were in danger of returning to pre-Christian Judiasm. The book most certainly was trying to define New Test. vs. Old Test. , and not overcomer vs. carnal Christians. In I JN we're told that those that believe in Christ have overcome! (Arthur pointed this emphasis on the word, "believe" in his quotes of Heb.)
Thanks again to all those who have posted on this topic.
God Bless, Mark


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BeckyW

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Re:Grace - the missing ingredient

« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2003, 06:45:51 am »

I think grace is such a needed topic for all of us reading this board. I know it is for me. I heard a radio interview with author Philip Yancey this weekend. He says the theme running through much of his writing is that, in his life, he has managed to absorb much of the worst the church has to offer and still end up in the loving arms of God. His book, Soul Survivor, tells of real Christians who influenced him for good. Some of Mark C.'s ,and Dave Sable's writings remind me of his books.

Grace, and peace, to all,
Becky


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psalm51

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Re:Grace - the missing ingredient

« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2003, 07:21:54 pm »

Quote from: Wieser on April 14, 2003, 06:45:51 am

Philip Yancey's books were a catalyst for me in my exit from the assemblies. I highly recommend them, especially "Soul Survivor" and "What's So Amazing About Grace". He has incredible insights about the human condition and our need for grace for ourselves and towards others.


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