Hi All,
  We've all pretty much figured out that GG used "deeper life" teaching as a tool for control (see my article on False Holiness), but apart from Assembly misuse are there any dangers with this teaching?
  Brent, your book gives an excellent look at what "deeper life" pursuit becomes in reality.
  Deeper life means the pursuit of deeper experiences in my life of Christ.  This, in itself, sounds very positive, but what does it actually mean? In Pentecostalism it means having "spiritual power" to perform miraculous works for God.  GG would say it is to have "moral power" to overcome the "self life" and express Christ.
  The NT teaches that the result of the experience of Christ in my life is love; love being like God's love, which is sacraficial in nature.
   When we attempt to "go beyond" to deeper experiences of the Spirit through techniques that we actualize ourselves we have left grace and placed ourselves squarely in Rom. 7 where we are attempting to implement what is "good" in our lives.  Doesn't the Bible teach us to apply what is good and to eschew evil?  Yes, we are most certainly urged to obey what is good, but not as a means to attain "deeper life" but as a result of our salvation.
   Deeper life teaching leads to a sense of elitism, as the adherents claim that they are somehow more spiritual then their "less deep" brethren.  If we "think" we are more "spiritual" then Paul says we should be involved in the same kind of restorative work that Jesus did in salvation by lifting our needy brethren instead of looking down our noses at them (Assembly elitism).  In these elitist systems I see little care for those struggling and much concern re. one's own pursuit of "holiness".

That is Great Eulaha!
   What you just said in your last post is a most wonderful discovery !  I made a similar discovery after I left.  I wasn't angry at God, but felt that maybe I had been abandoned by him because I left "God's true church."  
   I was driving around and saw a bumper sticker that said, "Jesus is my best friend" and I suddenly realized that this was not a trite little saying but was true!  GG always taught that Jesus wasn't "a buddy on the beach" but was a high, holy, and very unapproachable person. (Speaking of Christmas) The high holy God of eternity was born, lived on earth, and died on the cross that we might forever be united in love!  The friendship that Jesus extends to us does not leave when we sin; on the contrary, it is then that he draws near to us.  
   I don't know if you read the post I wrote re. Wounded Pilgrims, but I believe that little wounded one's who come out of groups like the Assembly are the apple of his eye.  Jesus was wounded through the attacks of the false religious system of his day and Jesus always had very harsh words for them.  To the poor battered known sinners that Jesus met he gave a message of grace and hope--(they love much because they were forgiven much).
   Don't be too hard on yourself re. your anger because it wasn't really rejection of God, but of a system that distorted who God really is.
    I write this not only to you Eulaha, but to others who may read and feel the same as you did.  God's heart aches for his little wounded pilgrims; see him as he really is---The Friend of Sinners!     God is Blessed,  Mark

Hi Garth, Brent, and other Biblical scholars.
  I think it is great to freely discuss these ideas as it is an opportunity to learn and grow.  I wish to enter the fray with my opinions, but like Brent, I am open to change.
   Of course I carry to the discussion my former indoctrination in a system that destroyed lives and as such makes me suspicious of any teaching that seems to support Assembly teaching.  It seems to me that GG liberally borrowed from many competing views that he gathered over the years, and this only adds to the confusion.
   One Naturism:  I side with the view that we have two natures, and whether this is just a semantic difference or not, it is what conclusions we draw from this teaching that can lead to serious harm to the Christian.   Often in history the teaching of One Naturism has been taken to mean some version of perfectionism.  From the Catholic mystics, Wesley, Salvation Army, Overcomer teachers, old line Pentecostals, The Assembly, etc. have taken the teaching to mean that we can attain perfection in this life.  This has led to suicide, nervous breakdowns, hypocrisy, and a general condition of "spiritual" self preoccupation.  Any teaching that denies what is honestly going on in my life is not healthy.
   Garth, your example of a homosexual struggling with his predisposition to this sin is a good one.  We all struggle with different natural dispositions(weakness)and it is this curse that brings us to God for help.  Betty taught, re. the Christian life, that we don't need to come to God for help because the finished work of Christ has already made us new creations and we have all the help we need.  In reality our interaction with God as Christians is much more complicated then some kind of a "Wheel and a Line" system that we are to implement in our lives.  We are not honest with ourselves (thus the growing psychotherapy business) and will ultimately fail in our attempts to actualize the new life in Christ via, "reckoning dead", "taking the place", "climbing heavenly ladders", etc.  
  GG, and his predecessors in perfectionism/overcoming teaching, all think they have not sinned for years!  Luther stated, "I sin daily", and I think he is closer to the truth.
   Next, is the teaching of Rom.7 of which the language clearly places Paul in the present tense.  I side with Reformed teaching re. their interpretation of this passage.  I will have to explain later as I have made this post too long already.
    I'm sure you understand the way GG twisted the teaching of One Naturism and I am not suggesting you would support such nonsense, but I think you must ask yourself where my understanding of scripture could lead and always ask what is my actual experience lest we fall into the error of explaining away things in our lives that are better faced honestly.
                                       God Bless,  Mark

Yes he was, a five pointer.  And I agree, he was a beautiful preacher, one of the best.

However, I still have a hard time with some of the corrolaries of reformed theology.  I have a hard time with the idea that man does not have free will.  I also, have a hard time with limited atonement.

But, if I had to choose from one of the big "systems,"  I guess I would choose reformed, because I never get tired of hearing about Christ.  And they really preach it.  (the good ones)

Gladly, we have the whole bible, and not just the parts that prove our theological bents.

Brent

I have a question for you all:  what does the scripture say about dating a non-believer?  I believe that the scripture does not support MARRYING a non-beleiver, but what about dating one?  Answer quickly-I've got to give an answer to a couple of guys wanting to take me out, yet they are not  Christians....

I recently received an email from a current Assembly member, and I was told that I could only find the will of God with other believers (not on my own).  Is this true?  I have not been in a church for over a year now-does this mean I have never found the will of God because I have not fellowshipped with other believers? Help!  

Eulaha:

You will never be free from the bonds of the unbiblical Assembly Way if you do not learn to find God's will for yourself.  This crap the Assembly teaches about a special dispensation of wisdom upon the LB's, and a special blessing upon those who obey them is just that...crap....garbage...disease infested oozing maggot breeding doggie doo-doo.  (I'll probably get kicked out of the kingdom and spend all of eternity in heaven's 'burbs for saying that).  Nevertheless, it is an evil and wicked teaching that encourages well-intended believers to go against their conscience.  Having had this teaching pounded into us for so long, it can be hard to let go of.  Often, we are afraid that if we don't get the LB's blessing, then God will not bless our undertaking.  This is not true.  I've seen more people suffer from the LB's nosy meddling than I have from people who earnestly sought God's will on their own, and made some mistakes along the way.  Did you ever notice that with very, very, very, few exceptions that the LB's would assure you that leaving the Assembly was not God's will, that you were deceived, that you would lose the "covering" of the Assembly, that in short, you would be spiritual road-kill if you left.  Eulaha, the best thing you ever did was to leave.  You didn't make that decision under the direction of the LB's.  You made it on your own.  Get godly council.  Seek the Word.  Pray about you questions.  Then decide before God.  He won't get mad at you!  God loves you very much, sister, and he has all grace for you to live and walk in liberty without guilt or condemnation.

I miss you!!

Tom