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Arthur
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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2004, 01:45:19 pm » |
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Personally, I am more concerned at the brazen anarchy being expressed by the militant homosexual lobby, the angry secularism expressed by Hollywood liberals, and the relentless pursuit of groups such as the ACLU that seek to marginalize Christians from all aspects of society than I am about the handful of people who Jeff is going to get to worship together in his living room.
I hear ya Dave. You know there's got to be a special place in hell for these guys. I happened to catch a glimpse of an interview with one of the guys from queer eye... He said something to the effect that he believed he was a servant of God breaking down walls of hostitly and ignorance. Can we say "messed in the head"? What in the u-know-what is wrong with people? Homosexuality is being embraced like it's mom's homemade cookies. There shouldn't even be a question about what marriage is. The whole world's gone crazy. They've changed terminology. Homosexuality is a "preference" or an "orientation". Bull-poopie! Try "perversion" and "abomination". Oh, and if you don't agree with the homosexual agenda, you're a homophobe. Wrong again, rr's. I don't fear men doing-u-know-what to each other, but I do fear God who will destroy such wickedness in unquenchable fire. Why don't people get it? I mean, if someone has a nack for eating his own poop, most of us would agree that he's got a problem. Why then has one man doing God knows what with another man become acceptable? Oh, we're such an advanced and modern civilization. If I didn't know better, I'd say that both the rise of homosexuality and of teaching evolution are God's way of saying, look at how low you've stooped. "Instead of believing in me--you're creator and loving God--you end up thinking you came from monkeys and now you even do unspeakable sex acts with each other. Is it really worth being so darn prideful and refusing to believe in God? Look! Just look at what you've become!" Get me off this crazy heap. |
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Recovering Saint
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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2004, 04:36:13 pm » |
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So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall. I Sam 25:22 Dear fellow BBS members, I know you're probably wondering what this is all about. I've wrestled months and months to get to know what the will of the Lord is in this situation. After years of study, prayer and godly counsel I've decided to tell Jeff to stick it. I know that some of you may not agree, but don't try to hold me back people. I didn't confer with flesh and blood on this one. It comes straight from the top. Oh, but wait, let me unwittingly blurt out that I've sought godly counsel on the matter (there's wisdom in it you know) and the ice-cream truck guy told me to do it. Ok, well, him and the garbage man agreed on the matter, so there were a multitude of counselors. "You tell that man to stick it like the piece of trash that it is, son" were his exact words. I think he may have a vested interest in such matters, but he's been collecting trash for 55 years so I think he knows what he's talking about. I must beg your forgiveness. You see I've put up with that low-life, forked-tounge, snake-spitting, scum-sucking, calling-him-a-dog-is-inhumanity-to-our-canine-friends ... for far too long. If only I would have gone up to him and slapped him silly the first time I heard the elixir of obfuscation protude from his orifice, we all wouldn't be in this mess. I should not have allowed him to prance around pretending that he's a man--nay, even a leader of men. My buddy Frank and many others were horrified at that sight. It has taken poor Frank countless weekends of wild boar hunting and more than a few home improvement projects (with a heavy emphasis on those requiring power tools) to regain his sense of manhood. For this I do apologize. But I'm feeling much better now. Frankly, I ask for your forgiveness to even bring up these details. You and I both know that we shouldn't talk about these things, but you know that the just plain utter naughtiness of Jeffrey made me do it. And have I mentioned that our God is a God of wrath, a consuming fire and that Judas went out and hung himself (Matt 27:5)? But I believe much better things of you brethren. We are not of those who shrink back, so I just want you to know that we'll be throwing darts at the pub every Friday night. We'll have a simple but joyful time of throwing darts at a picture of Jeff in effigy. "And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work." (II Cor. 9:  Finally, I do not mean to give any of you guys ulcers, but I just want you to know that Jeff's an idiot and we should all tell him to stick it. I prefer that this not be read...oh who am I kidding, I know you're all greedy for that tasty morsel that slides down. Go ahead and be a talebearer see if I care. And I didn't really like you anyways. It's all a sham. I just wanted you in the bar on Friday 'cause I get five bucks a head commission. There, I said it. Oh but wait, that makes me a better man than the vermin in question. Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. Arthur You are ready you have the Assembly style down pat. Just fire off tons of scripture with no cohesion and smile alot and give it in an authoritarian voice. People will lap it up. And every now and then contradict what you just said and see if they notice. The ones who keep saying Amen have the potential and should be recruited. The ones who disagree should be rebuked as not entreatable. Some are sincere but so sad that they have to deal with being the only ones who really know the Lord's leading. They are so misunderstood and are persecuted like Jesus and Paul.They have risked all to follow the only true way. Why don't people leave these poor innocent people alone. They mean well and only have the best of intentions for all. Remember what difference does it make if someone is messed up and kills themselves. They were destined to die we have the truth, they were not worthy of us after all. What if some give all their money time and health for the Assembly. Is it not the only true Church. Is it not the only way to find the rewards in heaven. Some have gone to those other Churches and they will come back. They are fools and will repent like me <Jeff>. Lord bless you all we love everyone especially the Assembly brethren. How's that Arthur have I got the style right? Hugh  |
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Scott McCumber
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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2004, 05:11:52 pm » |
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Hi again, When I was a member of the One True Church, I used to attend the seminars.  At each seminar a group photograph would be taken. I have one next to me right now. My daughter Grace looks about six, so it must be from around 1974 or so. I can see Jim and Brenda McCumber, Wally Steinke, Kurt Green, Mark Campbell, Al and Kathy Hartman, Mark Wheel, Steve Fortescue, Tom Moraitis, Tony Gerisak, Stuart Slack, Rob Coen, Sonny Brown, Pat Evert, Kurt and Andra Green, Steve and Margaret Irons, Paula Kahn, John DeSimone, Rand Bates, , the LB from Chicago that married Mary Fitzpatrick, Ken?, Beth Alex, Perry and Elaine Minimiti, Robin Catlin, Kevin Healy, Mike Monagh, John Arevalo, Doug Reneau, ...plus a whole bunch of folks whose names I can't recall right now. God bless, Thomas Maddux Tom, Now that would be a great pic to post! Was it taken in Fullerton? I don't remember my parents going to a seminar in '74 (but I don't remember as well as I used to). I do remember going to Fullerton for a seminar when I was in third grade (75 or 76). We mainly stayed with Paul Ryan and his family. By some miracle I was allowed to read instead of take notes. That's when I read The Chronicles of Narnia for the first time. That was also when I visited George in his study.  You've really got to get the picture posting thing figured out. S |
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outdeep
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« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2004, 07:22:50 pm » |
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This is the same attitude many people (maybe even you) took in the late 80's/early 90's when they left fellowship during the first big wave of departures.
Actually, it was just the opposite. During the Irons Age Exodus of 1990, we had the attitude of many on this bulletin board. We had many discussions. We felt we had to warn people. We met with the Passintinos with Christian Research Ministry. We sent out the Noble Inquirer to challenge George's teaching. We felt our life's ministry was to correct the wrongs in the Assembly. But over the subsequent 14 years as hurt healed and resentment ceased we gradually moved onto other things. We became leaders in other churches. We began finding ministries. We took up hobbies and other causes. We no longer became consumed with concern over every little thing they did. In short, we got a life. I would prefer that they not meet and that Jeff goes on to use his gifts in a place where he can be mentored. I urge Jeff to get involved with a strong, successful church in the SLO area in order to see and experience how good Pastor-leaders work, how good elder boards work, how good small groups work, etc. Healing is more than just talking about how a hearthy church should work. One needs to be a part of one and see for yourself. But, if Jeff decides to spurn this advise and believe George, what should we do? Stand on his lawn with signs in order to break up his living room gathering? I think I have better things to do. How many people would you like to see recruited in the SF, SLO & Riverside areas before you deem it worth someone's while to try and stop it? Seriously. Is it OK to throw up your hands and walk away because Lemkuhl will only recruit one teenager out of his auto shop class this year? Do you think it is worth while if he gets three families? Hmm. What about 1 teenager, 3 families and a couple college students. Then would the numbers be sufficient to justify someone spending time on this?
If you see a teenager who is meeting with Jeff, take him out for Hot Chocolate and have a talk with him. Maybe he'll listen. I'm not saying everyone needs to be quiet and sit on their hands. I'm just trying to provide balance and convey that this is not a major crisis that should consume our lives. Ultimately, people are going to make their own choices. Some choices will disappoint us. There will always be those who believe George. |
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outdeep
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« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2004, 07:37:16 pm » |
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Authur,
Good posts.
I have been coming to the conviction that our country is roughly divided into two groups: Those who believe in God and those who believe they are God.
-Dave
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Andrea Denner
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« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2004, 08:12:08 pm » |
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I'm not saying everyone needs to be quiet and sit on their hands. I'm just trying to provide balance and convey that this is not a major crisis that should consume our lives.
Ultimately, people are going to make their own choices. Some choices will disappoint us. There will always be those who believe George.
Dave, I really don't think that people posting on here are letting this consume their lives (at least it is not consuming mine...not even close). I think that some of us who only left early last year still have folks that we love that are still either believing the lies that George is telling, or if they are not doing that, they are still not admitting what the assembly was/is. My opinion is that there may still be a few who are looking on here to see what is being said. Therefore, we post as an additional warning. I think that some of the people here would agree that even a few years in the SLO assembly might not be a very good thing. Perhaps I'm wrong. Andrea p.s. Dave, we are going to a CMA church in our hometown and we love it! I also am in agreement with you both as to the state of this country. Lord, please return soon! |
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« Last Edit: March 03, 2004, 08:13:33 pm by Andrea Denner »
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outdeep
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« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2004, 08:45:39 pm » |
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I really don't think that people posting on here are letting this consume their lives (at least it is not consuming mine...not even close).
I think that some of us who only left early last year still have folks that we love that are still either believing the lies that George is telling, or if they are not doing that, they are still not admitting what the assembly was/is.
That is an excellent point, Andrea. To be honest, I don't know the SLO folks that well (I remember having Jeff over for dinner at the Iron's house once) so I feel more detached from what he does. However, it is indeed difficult to see someone you love make the wrong choice. Thanks. |
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jackhutchinson
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« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2004, 10:16:25 pm » |
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During the Irons Age Exodus of 1990, we had the attitude of many on this bulletin board. We had many discussions. We felt we had to warn people. We met with the Passintinos with Christian Research Ministry. We sent out the Noble Inquirer to challenge George's teaching. We felt our life's ministry was to correct the wrongs in the Assembly.
But over the subsequent 14 years as hurt healed and resentment ceased we gradually moved onto other things. We became leaders in other churches. We began finding ministries. We took up hobbies and other causes. We no longer became consumed with concern over every little thing they did. In short, we got a life. Dave, It is my belief that the reason you were able to move on and get a life was that you had truly repented of your assembly involvement. And your repentance was demonstrated by your eagerness to publicly warn others. I'll bet you're glad you did. I would prefer that they not meet and that Jeff goes on to use his gifts in a place where he can be mentored. I urge Jeff to get involved with a strong, successful church in the SLO area in order to see and experience how good Pastor-leaders work, how good elder boards work, how good small groups work, etc. Healing is more than just talking about how a hearthy church should work. One needs to be a part of one and see for yourself. Jeff attended a very healthy church for the past year and has had a chance to acknowledge the truth and repent. His letter shows he is not interested in repentance at all, but in rebuilding what God destroyed. Jack |
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M2
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« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2004, 01:27:04 am » |
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During the Irons Age Exodus of 1990, we had the attitude of many on this bulletin board. We had many discussions. We felt we had to warn people. We met with the Passintinos with Christian Research Ministry. We sent out the Noble Inquirer to challenge George's teaching. We felt our life's ministry was to correct the wrongs in the Assembly.
But over the subsequent 14 years as hurt healed and resentment ceased we gradually moved onto other things. We became leaders in other churches. We began finding ministries. We took up hobbies and other causes. We no longer became consumed with concern over every little thing they did. In short, we got a life. Dave, It is my belief that the reason you were able to move on and get a life was that you had truly repented of your assembly involvement. And your repentance was demonstrated by your eagerness to publicly warn others. I'll bet you're glad you did. I would prefer that they not meet and that Jeff goes on to use his gifts in a place where he can be mentored. I urge Jeff to get involved with a strong, successful church in the SLO area in order to see and experience how good Pastor-leaders work, how good elder boards work, how good small groups work, etc. Healing is more than just talking about how a hearthy church should work. One needs to be a part of one and see for yourself. Jeff attended a very healthy church for the past year and has had a chance to acknowledge the truth and repent. His letter shows he is not interested in repentance at all, but in rebuilding what God destroyed. Jack The Lord Jesus warned to 'beware of the leaven of the Pharisees'. It would have been best for him to stay away from the existing assembly crowd and get on with his life. Looks like he has been swayed by the assembly twist. It is not a small matter to mingle with assembly-sympathizers because they know very well how to twist the Scriptures and dance around and present their point of view. Jeff Lehmkuhl is unstable. He is tossed about and did not grow up when the truth finally came to him. So he repented at the reconcilliation meeting that took place in January of 2003, in San Luis Obispo. And now he has repented of the reconcilliation meeting that took place in January of 2003, in San Luis Obispo. What next? Anyone feeling seasick yet? Eph 4:14-15 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves, and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him, who is the head, even Christ, Also, many LBs/wannabees/workers compromised their conscience in order to achieve their positions. So now pride kicks in, and it becomes a never-ending cycle of destruction. Marcia |
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Arthur
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« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2004, 01:59:39 am » |
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As I was working my way out of the assembly, I read many books...that is how my personality type, ISTJ, makes decisions. We collect information. One of the books I read informed me that modern young people use cults the way my generation used military service.
From 1939-1945, and from 1950-1972 all healthy young men were subject to two year's mandatory military service.
Many of us just went ahead and joined up, not waiting to be "drafted". In many ways it was a great experience, (If they didn't happend to be having a war right then).
You had a job, three squares, a paycheck, and you were out of your mom and dad's house. It was sort of a half way house for young men between adolescence and full adulthood.
Nowdays, many young people cycle through cults in a similar fashion. They stay a few years and move on.
Tom, This is a really good perspective. Thanks for sharing. Many times I felt like I was in the army living in those training homes. What did people do before those drafts? Work on the farm, I imagine. Funny thing is that when I was in the assembly I thought it would be for life. I guess this was because I thought it was where God called me and because I wouldn't be a faithful, stick-it-out kind of guy if I left. I wonder if I would still be there today if it didn't go really sour there at the end, or if I hadn't had lived in the training homes. I don't think so. What about those people who were still in it past a few years? I'm talking about some bro's in their 40's still sleeping in bunk-beds sharing a room. I think even army lifers have it better than that. |
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Arthur
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« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2004, 02:01:56 am » |
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Arthur You are ready you have the Assembly style down pat. Just fire off tons of scripture with no cohesion and smile alot and give it in an authoritarian voice. People will lap it up. And every now and then contradict what you just said and see if they notice. The ones who keep saying Amen have the potential and should be recruited. The ones who disagree should be rebuked as not entreatable. Some are sincere but so sad that they have to deal with being the only ones who really know the Lord's leading. They are so misunderstood and are persecuted like Jesus and Paul.They have risked all to follow the only true way. Why don't people leave these poor innocent people alone. They mean well and only have the best of intentions for all. Remember what difference does it make if someone is messed up and kills themselves. They were destined to die we have the truth, they were not worthy of us after all. What if some give all their money time and health for the Assembly. Is it not the only true Church. Is it not the only way to find the rewards in heaven. Some have gone to those other Churches and they will come back. They are fools and will repent like me <Jeff>. Lord bless you all we love everyone especially the Assembly brethren. How's that Arthur have I got the style right? Hugh Hugh, you could be the next Jim Jones.  |
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editor
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« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2004, 02:04:42 am » |
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In a few days, I'll post, hopefully on the main website as well as here, an article that not only shows how messed up Jeff's letter is, but chronicles some very good reasons why the best thing he could have done was to step out of leadership.
He is "repenting," of doing what the facts demand is the only reasonable thing to do, that is cease leading on account of moral, ethical and intellectual failings, as well as general incompetence.
I also want to say something about my friend Heide, who is mentioned in the Addict's letter.
Heide came to that "worship" meeting, because she was going to get a public apology from Jeff and Roberto for them having called her a liar when she sent out an email protesting the cover-up of David Geftaky's abuse of Judy. The addict's, knowing full well that multiple incidents of abuse had occured, told everyone that Heide was lying in order to preserve "The New Testament" gathering that the Addict refers to in his letter below.
Jeff apologized to Heide beforehand, and told her that he would never lead anyone again. Roberto Sanchez, however, would not apologize and it was he who made the public horror referred to in the Addict's letter, not Heide.
Jeff is not only confused, arrogant and full of idoloatry, he is also a pathological liar. Plenty of people who were there have a much different story to tell about what went on.
Furthermore, at the time, I found out exactly what happened, and the Addict's Jeff and Roberto, along with Danny Edwards and myself were meeting weekly with Bryan Stupar at the time. After the incident where Roberto disrupted worship, all of us discussed this thing, and Jeff and Danny agreed that Roberto needed to apologize to Heide for what he did in the "worship disruption."
A week later, the final Assembly meeting was held. Roberto gave a pseudo-apology there, and then told another lie about why Heide was not there to hear him.
In the next few days, I will hopefully have a clearer picture about a few more things, and have a better idea about what to do. However, for now let me assure you that there are several complete and total lies in Jeff's letter.
No lie is of the truth, and Jeff has hung himself and solidified his reputation with this.
Heide, on the other hand, is simply being slandered yet again, by a spineless, idolatrous moron.
My only regret is that Heide didn't disrupt their accursed worship. My respect for her would be even greater if she had done so. Sadly, it was only the belicose voice of a geftakysservant that was heard that morning.
Brent
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Arthur
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« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2004, 02:51:52 am » |
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Hi Brent,
You mentioned "their accursed worship". A little more than a year ago I remember that you were so happy that the leading bro's had repented and invited you to break bread with them and everyone still left in the assembly there in the Sands. It was like a watershed event, like God's light broke through.
Was all that was just a fake? Maybe it was real for Danny but not Jeff and Roberto?
They were in the hot seat then, all the stuff with David and their mistakes were recently exposed, so I guess they just went along to get out of the heat, eh?
Man is that sad. Jeff met with you and pastor Brian for how many weeks? And he went to a normal church for a year? He even signed up on this bulletin board to let people get in contact him (which now looks like probably just a gesture). After all that, he gets this revelation that he needs to go back. Good grief, he is an addict...and a pathological liar...and a "spineless, idolatrous moron". Yep, yep and yep.
Hmm...I'm getting a thought here. Who cares. If he's going to hell, I doubt any of us could get pry him out of the handbasket. I'd like to give him a few swift kicks on the way down, but that's just personal. Guess I'm not loving my enemies. What would Sondra say...oh well, not that that matters much.
Arthur
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« Last Edit: March 04, 2004, 02:54:09 am by Arthur »
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« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2004, 03:00:14 am » |
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Hi Brent,
You mentioned "their accursed worship". A little more than a year ago I remember that you were so happy that the leading bro's had repented and invited you to break bread with them and everyone still left in the assembly there in the Sands. It was like a watershed event, like God's light broke through.
Was all that was just a fake? Maybe it was real for Danny but not Jeff and Roberto?
They were in the hot seat then, all the stuff with David and their mistakes were recently exposed, so I guess they just went along to get out of the heat, eh?
Man is that sad. Jeff met with you and pastor Brian for how many weeks? And he went to a normal church for a year? He even signed up on this bulletin board to let people get in contact him (which now looks like probably just a gesture). After all that, he gets this revelation that he needs to go back. Good grief, he is an addict...and a pathological liar...and a "spineless, idolatrous moron". Yep, yep and yep.
Hmm...I'm getting a thought here. Who cares. If he's going to hell, I doubt any of us could get pry him out of the handbasket. I'd like to give him a few swift kicks on the way down, but that's just personal. Guess I'm not loving my enemies. What would Sondra say...oh well, not that that matters much.
Arthur
It turns out that at least Jeff and Roberto were not at all sincere. The whole thing was a ploy to get me to shut up for them. I still believe different for Danny. They weren't giving God any worship. They remain liars. Brent |
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