With regards to doctrine, disagreements with doctrine isn't like disagreements with politics.  Republicans and democrats can have raging debates about taxes, the environment, and healthcare, and then go out to dinner with each other and have a great time.  Sound theological doctrine drives how we live and how we behave.  It drives our understanding of who God is and who God wants us to be.  Faulty doctrine can destroy us.  Paul says:

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.  "

Doctrine is not just a talking point at the dinner table.  It is foundational to our spiritual journey.  I jumped on the conditional inheritance bandwagon like so many others, as I'm a results oriented person, and it turned me into a performance oriented Christian.  

How many times did we hear people being made fun of for leaving because of some "nitpicky doctrinal issue" from the pulpit?  I know many don't want to start dealing with doctrine right now in the midst of such a shake up, but it does need to be dealt with.  Just my 2 cents..

Tony R, Verne & JS:  One of my issues has been the lack of public acknowledgement....after I left Chicago, I find out that the Chicago and Lombard leadership addressed the 7th day baloney to George.  Apparently, Roger Grant was distraught with George's lack of entreatability.  Yet, none of that was communicated to the little ones in the flock.  The flock was kept in the dark for a very long time.  That alone is enough of a reason for the leadership to step down.  Their responsibility was to warn the sheep of danger, and they didn't.  Instead, they distanced themselves from the sheep who were identifying the danger on their own and continued to outwardly stand by George - even as his ministry became silly and goofy.

This is just amazing!  I haven't been on the web site for about one or two days and already it is up to four pages!!  I know that this is a little far ahead of when I wrote and when the rebuttals came, but I would like to speak about this right now, if that is okay.  

Dear Retread,
Concerning your letter, don't the assembly leaders use the word to back up what they are speaking?  I cannot speak for everyone, but I know many of these brothers and know them to be God-fearing men who seek to do the Lord's will.  I know there has been a lot of sin and that has been dealt with.  George and David have been removed, and many of those that have lied or covered up have repented, and some have stepped down.  But do you know the hearts of these men?  Can you say when they are serving the Lord and when they are not?  How do you know who was serving the Lord and who wasn't?  Retread, we need to know the Lord's mind in all things and not jump to conclusions, no matter what failings you see in their lives.  This does not mean that some have been sinning.  That some have lived secret lives, and chose to cover up the sin instead of bringing it in to the light.  But there has been true repentance from many brothers, and those that haven't, you need to pray for.  Yes, many lives have been hurt over the years, and maybe some more reconciliation still needs to take place.  We need to stop placing blanket statements such as:
"For the assembly leaders to associate their lies, abuse and deceit with the message of Christ is despicable."
There were certain ONES that did these things.  It does not solve anything to say these things, only to stir up more anger in your mind and in the minds of others.  Yes, these men were in leadership so they will be held with great responsibility.  But pray for them.  Don't use this oppurtunity to turn your back on these people because a few failed.  We all fail miserably in our lives, but God does not let us go, so neither should we let others go.  To liken what God is doing in this place to Satan worshippers, is not logical, and is not pleasing to the Lord.  He knows what He is going to do, so we need to trust Him for it.  You are using your opinion for most of this article in saying that these men were not serving the Lord and they were only using Him.  I have sat under hours of ministry, here in St. Louis, and I can tell you for a fact that these men are serving the Lord.  You know why?  Because I see their actions, I pray for them, and the Lord gives me total peace in this place where He has put me.  I don't need anyone else to give me peace, because it is only temperal, and empty.  Only in God.  And He wants me here.

Dear Verne Carty,
Yes, I agree that this is a time for judgment in the house of God.  And I think that the Lord is cleaning us up and pruning us so that we can grow more fully and bountifully into the plan that He has for us.  As I said in the Retread letter, the leaders have a huge amount of responsibility and they will stand before God for each ounce given to them.  But I was trying, in my post, to bring this about to a personal and individual basis.  That we are all responsible in some measure, not just the leaders, but all of us.  Yes, not addressing this terrible sin going on was a wrong thing for different ones to do.  But we have seen repentance.  Continue to pray.

Dear Kimberley Tobin,
I agree with you that in the assembly, we were taught exclusivity and "our place is better than your place" type of attitude.  But speaking from a St. Louis perspective, we have seen this problem and are not continuing it.  I personally, would like a real close relationship with other churches in our area, that we all may grow together as the body of Christ.  This exclusivity attitude was wrong and not pleasing to the Lord.  But God is getting breakthrough in all of our lives.  Secondly, I am not saying that any of these offenses are petty.  I am very sorry if I came across that way.  I did not mean to.  In no way did I want to say that.   There are definetly some real serious issues, such as abuse and cover-ups that need to be addressed and they have.  Yes, these men will be held accountable for the level of responsibility that God has given them.  And I think that we are coming to a closure in these things(except maybe in a few assemblies).  The question is, what about in our personal lives?  Can we end these things and stop holding on to our anger?  I think that some people that speak on this website have real grudges and anger towards everyone, and I think that there needs to be a spirit of forgiveness and speaking the truth in love.  And also, remember that God has his perfect time table when He will bring certain things into the light and when He waits.
Also, leader accountability is changing.  In St. Louis, I know that there is a real close bond between all of us, and I know that if I disagree with any brother, I know that I can go up to him, and I won't get shot down or get blown out of the water.  They care and love with a Godly love and are seeking the Lord's mind in everything.  But you use the word criticize.  I believe that we definetly should not criticize them, but entreat them like fathers and brothers.  And yes, we need to submit.  But that doesn't mean we can't still address things, but it all depends on what your motive is.  Yes, God holds "wolves" accountable for leading the flock astray.  But in all the years I have been here, I have not seen that.  They preached Christ and the gospel and a daily relationship with Him.  This is not leading others astray.  Now, I know that there has been some hypocrisy, and God is the judge of all and He will judge every man according to his works.  But also remember the parable of the talents in Matthew 25.  God has given us His word.  And we are responsible to use it.  Lastly, I cannot speak for the assemblies in California, or in other states, but only for the one here in St. Louis.  Here, we have been solely dependent on God for a long time now.  I can't say that it has always been this way, but God has had His perfect plan in this place, and I want to tell you, the leaders here are SEEKING THE LORD.  THEY ARE BEING GOOD SHEPHERDS.  THEY ARE BEING WISE AND RECONCILING. AND THEY HAVE REPENTED IN THE PLACES NEEDED.  AND WE WANT TO KEEP AS DEACONS AND ELDERS BECAUSE WE TRUST THEM AND WE HAVE PEACE THAT WE, AS AN ASSEMBLY, ARE DOING WHAT THE LORD WANTS.

May the Lord bless you all and keep you in His will.  And may we all get His perfect peace in this trying time.
Feel free to write me whenever you want.

A brother in Christ,

Luke Robinson

Kimberly,
It is clear we dissagree about a couple of things.  I do not justify the sin of gossip.  Nor did I ever intend to.

Please be careful in talking about things you have little knowledge of.  Be slow to give titles such as "abuser".  Remember, we do not know the hearts of men, only God does.  You don't know my heart, you don't know what I was going through, and you don't know the intentions of those whom I lived with. ( and I know you are going to say - that you don't have to know hearts in order to see actions, but what have you seen in my life?) Be careful in judgement.

It was God who worked in my life (and is working).  This does not mean he does not use men and women in my life as part of his work.  I would be unfaithful to my concience to even imply that God did not powerfully use the Grant family for good in my life.  So I will say it again - I am convinced, to an extent that you don't know, that God did use them in an awsome way in my life.  That is my testimony - please don't trample on it.  Just as I will not trample on yours.

Two questions.
1) What is "damnable heresies" - and would the 7th day fiasco classify as one?
2) What is a good definition of gossip?
(some gossip is easy to see, but some is harder to point out)

Dear Brent,

If the Lord wants me to take a break and serve the Lord in that way, then I will.  But if he wants me to keep attending the meetings and serve the Lord in that way, then I will keep attending meetings.  And right now, the Lord is leading me to keep attending the meetings.  But who knows what the future holds?  Only God.  
Concerning St. Louis, I don't know who all witnessed the abuse but I know that is between them and the Lord.  But on a lighter note, sorry, I can't help but have hope for the future.  Everything looks so bright!  God Bless.

A Brother in Christ,

Luke Robinson

Verne,
1)Right, I've been reading that verse.  Yes isn't a very good answer though - how is that supposed to convince me?  I could ask someone else and be told "no" and then what a quandry I'd be in.

2)Again... umm - that was my point - so.. what about it - If you have specific examples, that would help.

Suzie, if you want people to see how that verse was taken out of context, please explain how it was done so, and what the verse actually means.

Guest, the same would apply - please use more than a reference to make a point - what is your understanding of it?

heh - I don't mean to address every post - but I am being very sincere here.  I really want to know these things.

Hi Joseph,

What I meant was that there was an incredible emphasis on meeting attendence, and this was the verse that was always used to justify coming to someone that missed a meeting.  Haven't you ever heard, "Brother ,we missed you. " I sincerely believe this was meant to solicit an answer of why you weren't at the meeting, and not goodwill. This verse applies to the person who WILLFULLY, HABITUALLY forsakes the assembling together. This to me seems like they are doing this in a rebellious way.

Taking a break for the sake of seeking God, is hardly "forsaking fellowship."