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mithrandir
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« on: November 05, 2003, 06:28:39 am » |
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I've been thinking a lot lately about the Plymouth Brethren movement, and the fruit (including Geftakysism) produced by it. Does anyone know of good resources (especially online resources) that detail the history, doctrines and personalities of the Brethren movement?
One thing I have concluded: it is not sinful or particularly dangerous for a bunch of people to meet for worship in simplicity without a paid pastor or musical instruments. Yet it seems that the founders of the Brethren movement created a system which was only marginally stable (to borrow a term from engineering). The slightest disturbance was capable of causing great ruin. What doctrines were held by the founders of Brethrenism? Was Darby the only "bad guy" or were they all in error? How is it that Brethrenism spawned such men as J.N. Darby, Watchman Nee, Witness Lee, George Geftakys, the Taylor and Raven sects, etc.? Are Brethren gatherings more prone to produce cults (including personality cults) than other churches? Has any good come out of Brethrenism?
mithrandir
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editor
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2003, 07:50:50 am » |
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I've been thinking a lot lately about the Plymouth Brethren movement, and the fruit (including Geftakysism) produced by it. Does anyone know of good resources (especially online resources) that detail the history, doctrines and personalities of the Brethren movement?
One thing I have concluded: it is not sinful or particularly dangerous for a bunch of people to meet for worship in simplicity without a paid pastor or musical instruments. Yet it seems that the founders of the Brethren movement created a system which was only marginally stable (to borrow a term from engineering). The slightest disturbance was capable of causing great ruin. What doctrines were held by the founders of Brethrenism? Was Darby the only "bad guy" or were they all in error? How is it that Brethrenism spawned such men as J.N. Darby, Watchman Nee, Witness Lee, George Geftakys, the Taylor and Raven sects, etc.? Are Brethren gatherings more prone to produce cults (including personality cults) than other churches? Has any good come out of Brethrenism?
mithrandir
You might add a few other names to the list of those spawned by Brethrenism: Aleister Crowley---really bad A. N. Groves---great guy Billy Graham (in part)---great guy Brent |
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BenJapheth
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2003, 09:06:25 am » |
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I've been thinking a lot lately about the Plymouth Brethren movement, and the fruit (including Geftakysism) produced by it. Does anyone know of good resources (especially online resources) that detail the history, doctrines and personalities of the Brethren movement?
One thing I have concluded: it is not sinful or particularly dangerous for a bunch of people to meet for worship in simplicity without a paid pastor or musical instruments. Yet it seems that the founders of the Brethren movement created a system which was only marginally stable (to borrow a term from engineering). The slightest disturbance was capable of causing great ruin. What doctrines were held by the founders of Brethrenism? Was Darby the only "bad guy" or were they all in error? How is it that Brethrenism spawned such men as J.N. Darby, Watchman Nee, Witness Lee, George Geftakys, the Taylor and Raven sects, etc.? Are Brethren gatherings more prone to produce cults (including personality cults) than other churches? Has any good come out of Brethrenism?
mithrandir
You might add a few other names to the list of those spawned by Brethrenism: Aleister Crowley---really bad A. N. Groves---great guy Billy Graham (in part)---great guy Brent Other guys with PB roots or historical orientations... George Mueller...Good Guy Hudson Taylor...Good Guy G.H. Lang...Good Guy Jim Elliott....Good Guy F.F. Bruce....Good Guy Chuck Vanasse...Fairly Suspect ::c:v:: |
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« Last Edit: November 05, 2003, 09:09:09 am by :: Chuck Vanasse :: »
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editor
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2003, 09:52:39 am » |
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F.F. Bruce....Good Guy
Chuck Vanasse...Fairly Suspect
::c:v::
Absolutely, Brent |
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mithrandir
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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2003, 12:36:44 am » |
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Didn't G.H. Lang teach the "partial rapture"? Didn't George steal a lot of his ideas on the overcomer and "conditional Christianity" from Lang?
mithrandir
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editor
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« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2003, 01:58:41 am » |
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Didn't G.H. Lang teach the "partial rapture"? Didn't George steal a lot of his ideas on the overcomer and "conditional Christianity" from Lang?
mithrandir
Yep. However we may view Lang's teachings on the overcomer rapture, don't confuse Lang's character with George's. The two are not comparable, at all. Brent |
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Eulaha L. Long
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« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2003, 02:16:30 am » |
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I remember reading a couple of child training books I believe were written by christians associated with the Brethren Movement, that talked about some pretty extreme ideas about child training-eg: toilet training infants, dealing with rebellion in children, and other things I can't remember. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
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d3z
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« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2003, 10:05:12 pm » |
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You might be thinking of the books by Michael and Debi Pearl. They are Amish.
I believe the Ezzo's are involved in conventional churches.
The Fugate's didn't seem to talk much about infant training.
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Eulaha L. Long
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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2003, 02:38:04 am » |
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It may have been the Ezzo's. The first book was thin, with a white cover and black writing. The second book was thin, with a gold color and black writing. The first book had a picture of a family driving a team of horses in a carriage...
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Rachel
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« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2003, 03:06:24 am » |
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The one about Toilet Training Infants was a book by the Pearls. It was actually an account of their time spent among Indian Tribes in, I believe, South America. They spoke of how the Indian women would teach their babies to "use the toilet", actually it was more like relieve themselves at given intervals, so the infant could be swadled and carried without peeing on the mother. The Pearls used this technique with their youngest child. However, it worked for them due to the culture they were living in at the time. I don't think Betty ever got as far as openly promoting that as a child traing goal but she was very impressed by it and spoke to me about trying it with my first son. To say the least, I didn't.
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tkarey
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2003, 12:30:45 am » |
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The black and white book is called "To Train Up a Child", but I could be wrong because I threw these books out a few months ago. There are other books, more question and answer-type, called "No Greater Joy" Vol 1 and II. These books contain very lively and opinionated essays on child-training, written by Mike and Debi Pearl. I've been to the website to study their beliefs further, apart from the assembly. ( www.nogreaterjoy.org) What I've decided about it is too confusing for me to sort out just now. I will let whoever is interested look into it for themselves (how nice of me, huh?). I know my penchant for rigid legalism, so this may not work, but I wonder if it would be the same if I didn't mix up everything I read there with my own experiences (kind of hard not to do that, though). I guess what continues to intrigue me are the stories of their childhood where they appear to have immense freedom while accepting their parent's absolute authority. Also the strict structure aka. the assembly isn't a topic of discussion there. My children were young when I left the assembly but the overall impression I got was that children needed to be restrained mentally (older) and physically (younger) as much as possible for as long as possible (unless they were being a servant); certainly not the freedom I see with the Pearl family. I would be interested in other people's take on this, perhaps on the "child training" thread? Karey |
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