The Buchmann's "Unscriptural" Leaving of the Assembly

[Aslan213]

Hi Everyone,

Greg, I thought I would post a response to your inquiry and post dated 11/14/02 that is on the Rick Ross site.  Might as well move the luggage over here.

It’s funny that you should mention that you left the assembly improperly.  I was told the same thing!  On top of that, my leaving was "unscriptural".  It seems I did not adhere to the scriptures properly as mentioned in Matthew 18:15-17.

Concerning verse 15; for the last 24 months I confronted each of the leadership about actions, statements, or ministry.  Only once did one of them humble himself.  The others either verbally attacked me or accused me of causing division.  I approached each of them at least 4 times and one of them ~12 times.  I guess this doesn’t count toward the “reprove him in private”.

Concerning verse 16; I then tried bringing a brother with me to one of those in leadership.  However the brother accused me of causing division by criticizing and calling part of a leader’s ministry erroneous.  He told me to repent.  I then asked two other brothers, but they stated they were too afraid of this leader and how he might respond to them later (So much for a shepherd’s care).  I heard later that these attempts didn’t count either.

Concerning verse 17; the leader of the leadership said I could not preach exhortation or doctrine to the assembly any longer (January, 2001).  I was only allowed to preach encouragement (i.e. the feel good type).  I presume this was to make sure I could not approach the church.

On Thursday night (October 10, 2002), I presented some of my points for the final time.  I knew they wouldn’t respond to it from previous experience although they did distort my first point after I left.  Note valley assembly members:  It had nothing to do with a particular leading brother being unapproachable.  I wrote: “There are accusations made by leaders that it is divisive to question a leader’s ministry or decision.”  I was responding to the issue that it is unacceptable in the assembly to question leadership.  That is, I was responding to the deeper issue of; “whatever leadership says is from the Lord.”  And “to question leadership, is to question the Lord’s leading.”  There is nothing divisive about bringing a leader into accountability with the Word of God as my witness.

The leadership’s response to my reasons for leaving was a shock to me.  They said this was the first time they heard of my points.  Obviously they didn’t hear me out before and I knew they wouldn’t hear it that night.  From the next 45 minutes I was as a spectator in a circus.  Their statements proved to me they would never listen no matter how many witnesses I had.

After I left, many of the saints told me I needed to submit to the leadership of the assembly.  Apparently, I was still accountable to them since I was now going to a compromised church (Calvary Chapel).  They also said I need to follow the scriptural pattern as found in Matthew 18:15-17.  That is, “To keep bringing ones with me until they repent.”  That’s interesting; my translations don’t put it that way.  None of them say I have to keep coming to the brother(s) with a witness.  Maybe I should throw out my KJV and NAS bibles.  Finally, I was told by a number of saints that I failed to get counsel from leadership about leaving (I guess the Word of God is not enough in the assemblies).  I was also asked why I failed to ask leadership to pray about these issues and my scriptural response to them.  (No need to respond to this!)

God bless you all,

Eric

[trockman]

Hello Eric

I hope someone in the assembly reads your post.  It is incredible how the won't hear, then blame you for not telling them, then still won't hear.  Absolutely incredible, but also quite typical.  

This kind of explains why so many people came to a meeting for about 30 minutes, and then got up and walked out! They figured it out pretty quick. (boy are we smart)

Brent

[Dave]

Hey Erich I just want to say I admire your courage.  I left without confronting anyone. I just figured if I did I would be told the same thing you were. "No one gets out of here (With a blessing) alive "  Jim Morrison

[editor]

Hi Dave

Thanks for the input. As you know, most people leave quietly.  However, when someone speaks up, like Eric did, it goes a long way towards making real change in the group.  I encourage anyone out there to be courageous and tell the truth.  Literally, it could save someone's life.

Editor

[Aslan213]

Hi Everyone,

Before I left the assembly, I attempted to entreat a number of saints on various issues.  When I left, it was not because they didn't respond, but because of the double-standards and half-truths we were told.  It was leadership who distorted why I left, into being one of personal issues.
When I responded to Greg's post, it was to show that even in their false assumptions, they didn't have a leg to stand on.  When I left, I prepared a two page summary of why my family was leaving.  Leadership only got the first page.  There's no way they would have let me finish with the second page.  Someday when I believe it's the right time, I'll post my reasons.

The Lord bless you,

Eric

[Eulaha L.]

When I was living in Fullerton (I was from the Assembly in San Luis Obispo), I tried unseccessfully to leave then.  I made the mistake of talking to one of the leading brothers (let's call him Rad).  I told him of my desire to go check out a Calvary Chapel.  I was told that Calvary Chapel did not have the same amount of vision that the Assembly has.  When you mentioned Calvary, it reminded me of that scenario.  Anyway, thanks for reading!

[Aslan213]

Hi Everyone,

Well the hindrance has been removed!    As I said before, when I believed it was right, I would post my reasons as to why I left.  I am a little surprised I was "laid off" today   (I worked for "saints").  Surely they know what I have.  Never the less, it might be another week since I haven't finished obtaining everything I need.  It's a good thing they can't interfere with that part.  

If it's too long, I might have to post it as an article.  We'll see.  

The Lord bless you,

Eric

[Kimberley Tobin]

REJOICE IN THE LORD, AND AGAIN I SAY REJOICE!  (OOPS, WRONG PLACE! )  

ERIC AND I WERE TOLD WE WOULD BE LET GO (WE BOTH WORKED FOR BELIEVERS IN THE SAN FERNANDO VALLEY-ONE BEING "THE" LEADING BROTHER) WHEN WE SAID WE WERE GOING TO ATTEND ANOTHER CHURCH (I REFUSE TO SAY WE "LEFT FELLOWSHIP", WE ARE STILL VERY MUCH "IN FELLOWSHIP" WITH THE BODY OF CHRIST.)  THE TRUE BELIEVER'S IN FACT HAVE BEEN VERY WARM TOWARDS US AND NOT PUSHING US THAT THEIR CHURCH (MY HUSBAND AND I HAVE VISITED FOUR) IS "THE CHURCH".  THEY SIMPLY WANT US TO FEEL LED BY THE LORD TO FIND A CHURCH WHERE THE LORD WOULD HAVE US TO WORSHIP.

BACK TO THE REAL SUBJECT FOR THIS POST.  ERIC AND I WERE WAITING FOR THE AX TO FALL.  WE KNEW WE WOULD BE LET GO, WE JUST DIDN'T KNOW WHEN.  

PRAISE GOD, WE HAVE BEEN SET FREE!  POOR ERIC, FOR THE PERSECUTION HE HAS SUFFERED AT THEIR HANDS SINCE WE CHOSE (AS SEPARATE FAMILIES) TO ATTEND A DIFFERENT CHURCH.  MORE TO FOLLOW LATER!

[Terry L Huffman]

GT's post reminded me of something.
Geo was a guest-yea, sure-at the bros. house and noticed that someone had walked about in their bare feet . Suddenly the LB-HS told us that bare feet were no longer allowed- socks or shoes. With my most humble demeanour I ventured to ask why. After all, there mustbe an important spiritual principle involved here and I didn't want to "leave my change on the counter." The LB-HS was at a loss for a second, then quickly recovered in time to share with me this unforgettable Ebeneezer fellowship worthy-of-sharing explanation and I swear that I'm not making this up(now THIS is a run-on)!:

I don't know. I think Bro. George is talking about the "oils" in our feet.

In retrospect George was probably referring to the possibility of spreading atheletes foot.  
I swear that I am not making this up!

[trockman]

Really Greg

You should be ashamed of yourself! You know as well as I do that the Assembly has served more coffee than your worldly church will ever hope to. You should be ashamed.  

You are just being a disgruntled former member.

Brent

[Terry L Huffman]

Greg:
John1:27 at least implies that bare feet were a distinct possibility, at least.
   I still shudder when I recall the first (and last) time I danced in public.
   The Assembly sometimes lapsed into the old If not specifically mentioned therefore forbidden error.

[Terry L Huffman]

Greg:
Why can'y you tell that story- would you be stealing KIMBERLEY'S thunder?

[Kay]

Hi, I helped ppl with the DIET, I never followed it. One thing I did like was when I was making the coffee for the.............I loved the aroma of the coffee boiling. Yes it sounds pathetic to me too!
 BTW I love coffee to drink. Field trip to Starbucks anyone?

[Terry Huffman]

Hello 4HIM:
I actually don't recall which location for sure-it's been a while hasn't it? I don't really know who you are for sure, but it would be great to hear from you via e-mail if you want to. I don't HAVE to know your ID if you choose not to reveal it-talk to me anyway. These sometimes humorous incidents hopefully just illustrated the mindset that we all had at one time. I avoided too specific details since not everything any one of us might have done then while in the assembly need be used to humiliate.

[Rachel]

Terry,

I remember that.  In fact I'm pretty sure I was the one with the bare feet. (1700 S. 4th, right?)  I will back up your story. (Don't care what all these other people have been saying about you.)  It's becoming more clear in my mind, it was definitely about athlete's foot.  (I also remember thinking that if GG didn't want to catch athlete's foot all he had to do was wear slippers.)  

I think that was the first time he humiliated me. The second was when he said my bathrobe was too short during morning devotions, possibly at the same time.  Been scarred (or is it "scared" ever since)  Never did make it to the big time.  Maybe that was why!?  

Heaven forbid George would be a gracious guest and just wear slippers.  NO he had to change entire household routines on a regular basis to prove they were willing to serve him...er...God.

Also if you read the story about the "European Swimsuit" episode it would be ironic that George thought your robe was to short.  I remember spending a summer day at George's beach house and sitting with my cousins as he spoke to us from his chaise lounge chair.  His shorts were so short, lets just say they left next to nothing to the imagination.  Quite embarrassing to his then teenage granddaughters, but what could we say .